exmo4BYUActually the Hawaii and Oregon State sources have already
confirmed that these games will also be on ESPN.Just waiting for the
times and dates to announce. That makes 8 games on ESPN, just like
in 2000 (01).Who has the "Brand" now, utes?
6 games have now been announced on the ESPN family of networks.Taken
from a BYU Athletics press release and verified at ESPN:Sept. 3 at Ole
Miss (ESPN) 3:45 p.m. CTSept 10 at Texas (ESPN2) 6 p.m. CTSept. 17
vs. Utah (ESPN2) 7:15 p.m. MT
Sept. 23 vs. UCF (ESPN) 6 p.m. MT
Sept. 30 vs. Utah State (ESPN) 6 p.m. MT
28 vs. TCU (ESPN) 7 p.m. CTSo that equates to every September game
on national TV. No surprise that the rest of the games are TBA and that Sept is
the first to fill up. I'm sure we'll get at least one more game (Oregon State),
and probably 2 more (Hawaii).
@ Howard S"But, aside from these advantages, is there anything
else the Collective expects from exposure, or is that it?"BYU's
first road game won't be on Versus, unlike Utah's! Utah leaves the Mountain
Worst and it's first PAC 12 Conference game, which is against USC, was just
announced, will be televised on Versus! This is the same terrible TV channel BYU
left the MWC to get away from! Independence > Doormat of PAC 12
(aka Utah)Go Cougars!
The poll question is kind of misleading. It asks if permanent independence is
the way to go. So the majority says no, meaning that eventually BYU should join
a conference. However, that "when" is a big question. If the poll
had asked "Is independence the right path for BYU for the next 5
years?", there would likely be a much different result from what we see.
I am rooting for BYU to join the Big 12 as long as the ESPN/BYUtv arrangement
stays in place. When I went to the BYU-Creighton basketball game last winter in
Omaha I saw a hoard of BYU fans descend on the Quest Center. A few of the ones I
talked to came from KC, St. Louis, Topeka, Lincoln etc. Everyone knows there are
much less BYU fans in the Midwest than there are in the western states but they
are just as passionate about BYU sports and would support them well at road
games. With the loss of Nebraska the Big 12 north has been weakened football
wise. BYU along with someone like AF or BSU could help the Big 12 north get
bolstered back up. Picture this. Say BYU joins the Big12 , keeps the rivalry
game at Hawaii which allows the 13th game every other year, wins the Big12 north
which allows for a 14th game at Arrowhead, and then go to a bowl game for a 15th
@Duckhunter:Very well, we'll just have to disagree about the prop 8 stuff,
it wasn't the driving force behind BYU not being invited to the PAC 12 anyway.
Although our exclusion was politically/religiously motivated. In honesty, the
very conservative/religious BYU is really not a good fit in the PAC, and it
would have been an uncomfortable marriage anyway for both parties.I
also like the move to independence. It has the potential to be better than a
BCS invite. Unless/Until that potential is realized though, any invite to join
a BCS league should be seriously considered. In 5-10 years Holmoe will be
either a visionary hero, or a detested pariah. That will hinge on the team's
ability to compete and win as an independent.Props to Utah as well.
My fandom doesn't require active ill will towards our rival (except maybe the
week leading up the game). :)
@exmo4byuI got your point but yes it does invalidate it. I agree
with you that there are alot of people that look negatively on the involvement
of the church in prop 8, even church members, and probably the majority of the
academic types look at it negatively. But I would say most people couldn't care
less and the majority of the ones that do care seem to be in line with the
church's position. Yes I know that we get some poll or another every
couple of months saying the church position is the minority one but then every
time there is an actual vote on the subject the church's position wins.But the part you are most likely correct about is that the academics, the
one's that actually have a say in conference alignments and expansion, are
opposed to the church's position and it is more than likely a factor for them
even if it shouldn't be. I can live with that but I like the move to
@Duckhunter:Yeah, my bad. Instead of saying "the rest of the
world", I should have said something like "many people." So,
props to you for pointing that out, but it doesn't invalidate my broader point.
There will be negative repercussions to football operations because of Prop 8
and the fact that BYU is a church school. Because school regents/boards and
therefore conferences are generally pretty steeped in academia which is
sensitive to such things as Prop 8, and not big on religion in general.Its football and sports though, and politics and religion shouldn't even be a
consideration, from either side of the fence. Could've, Should've, Would've...
In the end, what should be and what is, generally are completely uncorrelated.
And I wouldn't assume every BYU fan agrees that the church's involvement in Prop
8 was the "right thing".
@exmo4byu"Mormons simply have no clue how bad Prop 8 looks to
the rest of the world"The "rest of the world" is a
bit of an exagerration considering that more than half of them voted in favor of
prop 8. When your position is actually the position of the majority it would
seem that perhaps you look good in their eyes?
Anyway, this is football which should have nothing to do with politics or
religion. The best exposure that BYU could get would be to join a BCS
conference, and Holmoe is a dolt if he isn't approaching BCS conferences to
elicit an invite. Independence is better than the MWC and it *can* be better
than joining a BCS conference (if we win, a lot), but independence, IMO, is not
automatically better than a BCS conference invite. If a BCS invite comes (which
I think will happen) and it is turned down I will have lost all faith in the
sanity of the admins at my alma mater...
Doesn't Rock read the Desert News blogs? Cougar fans have convinced themselves
that being Independent is better than being in a BCS conference. One thing you have to give BYU fans credit for. They can irrationally
convince themselves of just about anything.
I totally agree with you exmo4byu. When you take a stand based on principles you
can almost expect a consequence to follow. That is part of our test here on
earth. When we sing at church " Do what is right, let the consequence
follow" we dont just mean good consequences. With the whole Brandon Davies
and Harvey Unga incidents we saw both the good and bad play out. In these
incidents BYU did what was right and let the consequence follow and I can
guarantee you it led to a few losses. Whether you love BYU or hate them you have
to respect them for living up to their standards.
What I don't understand is why BYU fans, like me, and UofU fans can't both
acknowledge that each team is a much better place than they were just a few
years ago. Props to both teams. An invite to the PAC12 is a great win for
UofU, and congrats. It doesn't bother me that they got an invite. When UofU
rips up the PAC12 this year, it will validate the idea that the whole AQ/non-AQ
dichotomy is a load of crap. I hope the Utes own the league as it will be good
for all "mid-majors". I hope the same for TCU next year in the Big
East. At the same time, I think the BYUs deal for independence is also
fantastic. There are advantages to both UofU's and BYU's situation. I would
hope that fandom doesn't blind you to reason. On game day, I'll cheer against
BYU's opponent, but when I walk out the gate/turn off the TV, I have nothing
against the other side. Anyway, I hope things work out the best for both teams.
I find it funny how BYU fans believe that Prop 8 is not a big deal. Mormons
simply have no clue how bad Prop 8 looks to the rest of the world. I do not
think that Prop 8 directly ruined BYU's chance to be in the PAC12, the thought
of BYU admins sitting at the table with Cal-Berkely admins is hilarious, always
has been. That would never fly, ever. It is a religiously based decision,
sure, but it does not rise to the level of bigotry. And to suggest it does
dilutes the word and disrespects those the truly do suffer from bigotry. Prop 8
is a big deal. It will impact dealings with the university owned by one of the,
if not the, largest supporter of the proposition. If you feel you have taken a
stand on principles, then you must accept the consequences.Anyway, I
live in Big 12 country and I think that BYU will get an invite to the Big 12. I
hope they do, and I hope they accept. I'd make it to every game with MU, KU and
KSU, probably OU too.
The exciting thing is that BYU may decline conference invitations unless they
are offered something better than what they have. Then BYU either remains
independent with the benefits that come from independence, or else a conference
may really want BYU and attempt to make an offer BYU can't refuse, an offer that
will give BYU much more than they currently have.
One final comment from me on this article, and then I will be quiet.I'm a fan. I don't care if one school gets $30M and the other school only
gets $10M. It's not like any of that money is going to land in my pocket.
Hopefully the legislature will either reduce taxes by $30M or restribute the
$30M from U to high schools throughout the state. They need the money.I only care about my ability to see my Cougs play every week, and this new
deal will give me the opportunity to do that. After basketball, I reduced my
package with DirecTV, since I no longer need The MTN. This saved me $180 a
year. I'm more concerned about saving me $180 than I am the additional $20M
that the Utes will get above BYU - a few years from now - when they get the full
No doubt about it BYU can play with the AQ's. Wins over Washington, Wash St,
Oregon, Oregon St, Cal, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona St, Colorado, KState, Missouri,
Oklahoma, TexasA&M, Texas, Iowa (tie), Miss St, Virginia, Penn St, Syracuse
& Miami can attest to this. The Utes victory over #4 Alabama in the Sugar
Bowl was impressive. BYU wins over defending national champion Miami who was
ranked #1 at the time and #3 Oklahoma in the Cowboys stadium were equally up
there. BYU's move to independence is a bold move. The only other teams with a
national brand that could possible pull this off is USC, Texas, Ohio State and
Florida. Only time will tell if it pays off dividends.
Bluto et.al.Given that the Collective has been reduced to wishing
doormat status on Utah in the PAC 12 and that they seem to be relying in the
advantages afforded by ESPN/BYUtv exposure, let me pose this question:The the advantages I see for Cougars from exposure are as follows:Mormons across the world get to see the Cougars play,I think Cougars
hope for a potential recruiting advantage from exposure,and I understand
that the money paid for exposure is greater than MWC money.But,
aside from these advantages, is there anything else the Collective expects from
exposure, or is that it?
Rock rocks as usual. However, I do take one exception to his article: the use of
the term 'mid-major.' BYU, TCU, UTAH, BOISE ST... They play or used to play in
non-AQ conferences. But they are all great programs. And, they are DIV 1 teams
just like Oklahoma, Alabama and others. The term mid-major simply implies that
they are less than the AQ conference teams (which the BCS cronies love to
perpetuate). I disagree. Each of these non-AQ teams have earned top 25 rankings
over the past few years. Each have beaten AQ conferences teams of late. They are
still capable of beating AQ conference teams this coming season. Let's stay off
the BCS bandwagon. If you want to distinguish... use the terms 'AQ' and 'non-AQ'
instead, which emphasize the anti-competitive nature of the BCS.
@uofuby5"Speaking on "wins" over mid-majors like
utah...how was that win over utah st and utah last year??? oh wait that's right
you didn't beat either team. Epic fail."Good point. BYU should
beat mid majors like Utah did last year in the Vegas Bowl...Great point...19-3? Embarrassing is an understatement.
@Howard S"Consider that according to widely published reports
in three years when Utah reaches full sharing in the full sharing of the PAC 12
deal they will get an estimated $30 million, or more than $3 million per PAC 12,
game home or away."Actually the reports from the PAC 12 are a
12 year deal worth a total of $3 Billion. That's $250 Million per year, split
between 12 teams, is roughly $21 Million per team per season. Include bowl games
and conference championship games, you're looking at $25 Million per team per
season tops. I'm glad you brought up the whole full membership
issue. Utah gets $0 for regular season games this year. They will get about $3
Million for the conference championship game. That being stated, BYU will make
$6-8 Million for just home games. Including away games, like Texas, Ole Miss,
TCU, BYU will make over $10 Million this year. More than Utah! :)Again, Tom Holmoe said we want exposure. I love how you don't mention our espn
rebroadcast rights. Probably because Utah has no comeback. Go
nottyou | 8:21 a.m. May 27, 2011 Riverton, UTAs long as BYU's
schedule is loaded with wins over mid-majors like Utah, BYU will never be
invited to a BCS conference.???? call me crazy....but isn't being
invited to a BCS conference make you a BCS PROGRAM??? Speaking on
"wins" over mid-majors like utah...how was that win over utah st and
utah last year??? oh wait that's right you didn't beat either team. Epic fail.
Byu is not a BCS Caliber program will not be invited to BCS Conference and will
forever be a mid major playing in the WCC..that is funny
Brad Rock is spot on with this analysis, except Utah State might be more in need
of a garage sale than Wyoming. BYU to the Big-12 before 2016 when that leagues
1st tier rights with ESPN expire is much more likely than many realize, some
even speculate it could come as early as an invitation by next year and starting
play by the 2013 season.Ute fans should like this idea since the
BYU/Utah rivalry could become the biggest cross league rivalry in the country.
The BYU program wont be going away and Utah has merely shown they can play with
BYU rather than go back to the old pre-1970s order as some would want.
If joining a BCS conference is so much better than being independent, why does
Notre Dame turn down conference invitations?
@Howard S.Wazzu gets 30 million dollars also, and nobody would ever
suggest that their Stature will be rising anytime soon, either.For
every Florida and Alabama, there must needs be a Vanderbilt.For
every Michigan and Ohio St., there must needs be a Northwestern and Indiana.For every Texas and Oklahoma, there must needs be a Baylor and Iowa
State.and for every USC, Stanford, and Oregon, there must needs be a
Wazzu and Utah.so sad, but so true.
@Howard S.Look we get it. Your Sacred Cow is Conference
Affiliation. It's all you have (in your mind) over BYU.We've already demonstrated that Conference Affiliation and $$$$ don't always
equal Exposure.See latest ESPN choices....um, no UtahTo
a young Recruit, he will look at three things...1-Exposure...How
many National TV Games? 2-Rankings...Are you consistently in the
Top-25?3-LegacyBYU trumps U all day.Let it go.Why is BYU after Exposure?Twenty years ago, you could walk
into any Stake Center, anywhere in the World, and watch BYU football. That
disappeared with the WAC and MWC TV deals. The Shackles are Off.
Only Independence allows for this.The planning and foresight for
Independence is 20+ years in the making. For 5 years BYU has been putting
in the Broadcast infrastructure. BYU-TV ramped up some 12-15 years ago. They are being paid well for their "Brand". A
"Brand" which took 40 years to develop, not 7 good years in 50.You cannot comprehend how BYU can make it on it's own, because Utah
never could. BYU is not utah, they don't need others Coat-tails.
Howard S."Consider that according to widely published reports
in three years when Utah reaches full sharing in the full sharing of the PAC 12
deal they will get an estimated $30 million, or more than $3 million per PAC 12,
game home or away."Just think, in 10 years, Utah might have
enough to be able to expand RES to a decent-sized stadium, assuming that Utah
football hasn't dropped to the level of Washington State football.
friend, it sounds more like attention and affirmation, which BYU craves because
there will be no major conference affiliation to establish the relevance of the
program.So if you can't have have relevance and stature, jumping up
and down for attention and affirmation is about all you have to go with.Good luck with that...As for Utah's stature... I think $30
million annually adequately speaks for that.
Howard S.BYU does pay attention to its boosters and fans throughout
the world, but an unscientific DN reader's poll is as meaningless to BYU as the
daily sniping of the kids on the hill on the DN blogs. What BYU's
fans have been calling for for years is greater access to BYU sports, which have
been marrooned on the MTN for far too long. BYU listened to its fans in making
the decision to declare independence.Sure, independence comes with
some risks. But, so does joining the PAC 12. More money for both schools. But,
both are risking the known MWC landscape for uncharted territory.How
happy will Utah fans be if Utah becomes a perennial bottom tier team in the PAC
I do not think Wastintime hates BYU if so he wouldnt have said yesterday
"BYU can clearly play with the big boys. No doubt about that. And BYU
travels well. No doubt about that either. The Sunday play is a minor issue
(almost a non-issue) in my estimation." He brings up some valid points that
may or may not come into play when/if the Big 12 attempts to get back up to 12
teams. Here is my opinion. BYU is the biggest potential catch west of the
Mississippi for the Big 12. They cannot really add more teams such as TCU or
Houston because they are already top heavy in TX(this was a contention point
that caused Nebraska to bolt). I cant really see Arkansas leaving the SEC.
Louisville or Memphis really add nothing except good basketball teams that shake
it up every 3 or 4 years. BYU IS the top viable option for the BIG 12 if they
can allow them to keep their perks in place with ESPN/BYUtv and get over the
Mormon factor. Big 12 schools are much more moderate than PAC12
schools(excluding KU and ISU).
@Howard SSorry Howie, Polls don't set policy at BYU. If
that were the case, BYU would have gone Independent 20 years ago.BYU
Has the Exposure it wanted. National TV, Every Game, Football &
Basketball. Utah is still waiting for their Masters to deem them
worthy or not.good luck with that.
The 12-pack's four ESPN national games will be:Oregon @ StanfordUSC
@ OregonASU @ Oregonand if Oregon is undefeated when the Beavers
come to town, that game will be #4. If they win the ducks waddle off to the
national championship again because they will have beaten the two top teams in
the south during the regular season. The championship game will be a
formality.The newts 2011 schedule gives them the best chance they will
have of not finishing in the bottom half of the league, but not playing Oregon
means that BYU is the only team handing them an ESPN nationally televised game.
@BlutoBluto, my blue-googled friend, your valiant, yet misguided,
defense of the BYU spin on independence is indeed admirable.If I
were in need of an advocate for an indefensible position you would be my guy.But, when DN polls place you clearly in the minority of Cougar fans
regarding the sustainability/desirability of independence, it may be time to
reevaluate your blind support of the BYU propaganda.
Wastintime"I don't know why my posts have raised such a
ruckus..."You're exaggerating your "ruckus
raising"... you don't have a clue whether BYU will be invited to a major
conference; your own bitter hatred of BYU is not considered proof, in fact, if
you were forced to bet the ranch on BYU NEVER being invited to a major
conference, I suspect you'd slink quietly away.The bottom line is
the BYU haters, pseudo Utah fans, were giddy with excitement last June when Utah
was invited to join the PAC 12 and BYU was supposedly "left
behind".The haters were shocked that BYU had the national
cachet to one-up the Utes by declaring Independence and partnering with THE
"Sports Leader" to market BYU's own brand for the next 8 years. The
naysayers claimed that BYU "would never be able to schedule anybody",
but here we are only 9 months after BYU declared Independence and already BYU
has signed or is finalizing games with Texas, Notre Dame, Nebraska, Ohio State,
TCU, West Virginia, Georgia Tech, Penn State, UCLA, USC, Arizona State, and
Syracuse.Independence, ESPN/BYUtv > MWC, the MTN -- it's not even
@Howard S.Once you understand, that with BYU, it is not about the
money, but rather, the Exposure, then your soul may not be so troubled.BYU does not lack resources. Even before Independence they were one of a few
D-l Programs operating in the Black.Their ESPN deal, and their
ability to control and market their own Brand will keep them competitive with
any school in the country.It's not a battle of ledger sheets, but
Winning, Rankings and Exposure.Who is better positioned, Utah or
BYU. I contend BYU hands down.If your game is who will receive more
TV money, we stipulate. That is not BYU's worry.Every game for BYU
Basketball and Football will be Natioanlly televised on Basic Tier.This is what matters. Utah and Washington State will benefit from the new
dollars, but it won't buy them Exposure if the Network Executives pass them over
for the more Elite Programs of the Conference.BYU will chart it's
own course from here on out, they will never again forfeit the total rights to
their Brand or the ability to have their fans across the Country/World, see
@BlutoA few of the Cougar Collective have taken a long drink of the
independence kool aid, convincing themselves that BYU has found something
"just as impressive" as major conference affiliation and a share of
the richest collegiate broadcast deal in history. (does this mean you find
Utah's deal impressive?)And some of the Collective have their
craving for affirmation and attention satisfied by ESPN/BYUtv broadcasts.But if the DN polls are to be believed 67% of Cougar fans would prefer
major conference affiliation over BYU's current independent status.As for a "Texas type" arrangement in the BIG 12. There is only room
for one "Texas type" arrangement in the Big 12... and it's already
Wow! This article has really stirred a debate among BYU and Utah fans. I
didn't realize so many Utes were so concerned about the Cougs and followed our
comings and goings so closely. Thank you for staying abreast of the current
news about our school. I almost feel guilty for not following U so closely.I'm only disappointed that many of the comments from the hill seem to
wish the worst on BYU only because of religious bigotry. They do not stem from
intellectual understanding of the situation. Please remember that 60% of the
students at the U are also LDS, and your negative religious comments are also
indicative of a large portion of your student body.Bottom line: I'm
confident that BYU would accept an invitation from the Big 12 if it were
offered. But we don't know if or when it will come. Until then, independence
is proving to be a better option than almost anyone of us anticipated and we'll
ride it as long as we can - maybe forever.
@Cougar_Independence$6 - $8 million from the ESPN Deal is a nice
find and together with the reference someone made to $2.25 million for the 2016
WVA game represent a nice piece of change, but it's a far cry from the the
amounts posted by Bluto:*8 million for home games*Another 1 to
1.5 million for away games*plus 2 to 2.5 million dollars for neutral site
gamesConsider that according to widely published reports in three
years when Utah reaches full sharing in the full sharing of the PAC 12 deal they
will get an estimated $30 million, or more than $3 million per PAC 12, game home
Sorry Howard S.Like the child who has a new toy and really enjoys
the fact that his friend does not, then his friend gets a new toy of his own,
different, but just as impressive.What then Howie? Wherein is your
advantage? A bit unsettling?Howard, we know it's important for you
to have something BYU does not. And we're sorry to Burst your Bubble, but BYU is
doing just fine, Thank You. They "Yearn" for Nothing U
have, despite your need for them to do so. *Do they yearn to have
every game on National TV & ESPN 8-9 times a year? *Do they Yearn to
receive Millions for their Own Brand?*Do they yearn to play "Storied
Programs" all accross the U.S. of A.?The BCS in time, will not
exist. It's an Illegal Cartel. It violates the Sherman Anti-Trust Act.Regardless, BYU contols it's own Brand, from top to bottom. It has it's
challenges, but BYU will never go back.If the Big 12 came calling ,
they would never give up what they now have. They would have to receive a Texas
type arrangement or they will not join.
So I don't know why my posts have raised such a ruckus here because it seems
like everybody agrees with me that the writer of this article is absolutely
dreaming when he says a 'major' conference will come calling. And you are
fine with that. And so am I.
@Wasteintime I can appreciate your viewpoint, but I'm pretty sure there are
very few BYU fans who are losing sleep because the PAC 12 did not invite us into
their conference. It may very well have been because of alleged political
differences, but the fact that Larry Scott has stated that he is looking in to
scheduling more athletic events on Sunday is a clear indication that there is no
way BYU and the PAC 12 could have been a good fit. And that's fine.BYU has been, and always will be, different. We don't shy away from that.
We're a church owned school with certain standards and a strong honor code and
we don't make weak concessions to public opinion (see Brandon Davies suspension
and Harvey Unga issue). That opens us up to ridicule and mockery from people
who are either ignorant or antagonistic...and that's fine as well. It's a free
country and people can say what they want. We won't compromise our standards
because of that. So we are probably considered "outcasts" by others,
because we're different. But that's ok...we're used to it :)
@ Howard SLook up Jay Drew's BYU article on trib dated May 12th.
This is copied and pasted from that article: "When it announced its
independence, BYU also announced it had in place an agreement with ESPN that
will pay the Cougars an estimated $6 million to $8 million a year. Holmoe said
Thursday that ESPN will televise on one of its networks all but one BYU home
game every season."So there is your published report!!Also note this:BYU TV is available in over 50 million homes,
online free streaming to over 1 billion people in the world who have a computer
with Internet access, and coming soon to millions more as an iPhone, iPad, and
iPod touch app. BYU TV also has exclusive rebroadcast rights of buy games aired
on espn.ESPN is available in over 100 million homes, also online
streaming, and iPhone app already released.The pac12 network is
available in 0 homes today, offers no online streaming yet, and will not be
available on smart phone apps for quite some time. Utah has no rebroadcast
rights with espn. Independence never felt so good! Go Cougars!!
@Stackhouse"Once B12 expansion talk heats up BYU may face
discrimination but this time it may come from the far right."*******Generally concur with your conclusion.A slight
quibble would be that opposition to a Big 12 invite will come more specifically
from the evangelical right. Such opposition is, and will be, fueled
by BYU positioning itself as a missionary arm of the LDS Church.Bottom line is that by alienating potential conference mates on the political
left and the evangelical right, BYU should settle in for a long ride as an
independent.While the esteemed Mr. Bluto claims to be pleased with
the prospect of long term independence, he appears to be out of step with the
majority of his fellow Cougars who according to the polls associated with this
column continue to yearn for BCS conference membership.
Googled it!BYU SportsJay Drew Report: Payout for
BYU-WVU game is $2.25 million per school Published on Sep 24, 2010
11:55AM"I can't imagine BYU athletic officials ever divulging
how much money the school is getting to play a football game, but apparently a
West Virginia official told this newspaper that each school is getting $2.25
million to play in that game in 2016 at FedExField in the Washington, D.C.,
Both sides have good points. I agree that the PAC does not want BYU for
religious and political reasons (and from my observation, many east-coasters
believe that as well). On the other hand, BYU was not directly involved with
Prop 8, although it was obvious where their loyalty was during the incident.
Berkley is in a similar situation-- the institution itself was not directly
involved in the 60's, but we know what the sentiment was.Just
because the BYU board is made up of apostles doesn't mean that every action
taken by the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles is done in the name of BYU.Whether other conferences invite BYU is unknown at this point. I personally
think the Big 12 will get over their own bias and invite them, but who knows if
or when they will do it. I still say BYU should stay independent, at least for
a few years.
Wastintime has some valid points. Ever since the Sproul Plaza incidents of the
60's Cal-Berkley has been the Mecca of liberalism and every other "free
thinking" movement except Western religious thought. PROP 8 though popular
with the citizens of California was not popular at all with the "free
thinking" annointed ones of the far left many of which have tremendous pull
over our American universities. If I remember right didnt they have to have a
consensus to invite any school to the PAC10. If that was true BYU was doomed
from the start. Utah being the "enemy of my enemy" was a shoe in. What
proves this is, though Utah has had great success since the Urban Meyer days
what has Colorado done the last 20 years to inspire an invite. I will tell you
what they have done well in Boulder. They have been the liberal bastion of the
rocky mountains. Wastintime may be right. Once B12 expansion talk heats up BYU
may face discrimination but this time it may come from the far right.
@WasteintimeFYIProp 8 was a Ballot Initiative......Not
@WasteintimeToo close to home?*One Man's
"Pariah" is another Man's....."Beacon and Light unto the
World."*One Man's "Irrelevant Points" are another
Man's....."Wisdom and Knowledge, Falling on Deaf Ears."It's OK Sasty, BYU is good.....Happy in their own skin.....Happy with
Independence......Happy with having standards....Now relax, it will
all be OK
WastinmytimeI didn't say you attacked anybody. You said their attacks were
personal. I said they were no more personal than yours. I stand by that. Show me
where they attacked you. "No U members sit on BYU's Board and
no U members are apostles, etc." Everyone knows this. But several members
of the 12 and First Presidency have degrees from and ties to Utah.The 1980 Olympics is proof that politics has no place in sports. My
opinion."Do they teach history anymore?" Valid question
since you have been unable to wrap your mind around the political ambitions of
many PAC schools. Not an attack on your ability to learn. Maybe an attack on
what was missing from some of your history lessons. What is
upsetting to me is that you make it sound as if BYU paraded it's athletes and
students around California in order to campaign for Prop8. The reality is that
many BYU students and alum voted both ways on the measure. Didn't you read about
Steve Young and his wife and the comments they made about the measure? No one is
attacking; just having a friendly debate.
Cougars1I did not attack anybody; please explain who I attacked and
how I attacked them.Please explain what you are saying about the U's
and Y's Boards of Trustees. No U members sit on BYU's Board and no U members
are apostles, etc. Further, I don't believe the California University Presidents
(or Californians in general) view BYU and Utah as alter egos. So any passing
connection is meaningless.I agree with you that politics has no
place in sports. Or, it should have no place. That said, in reality it has an
enormous place (e.g., boycotting the 1980 Olympics). I was merely
pointing out the elephant in the room... the reason why BYU is sort of a pariah
right now, since the writer and most commentors are ignoring it. People start
attacking my education, etc., while making totally irrelevant points. For
example, even if existing members of the conference participated in past
'political' activities, first they were already members of the conference (the
PAC 8), not trying to join like BYU, and second, that would merely make them
hypocrites (something the world is full of). It would not invalidate my post in
WastintimeTheir attacks were no more personal than yours. You obviously
have failed to realize that there is a connection between some of BYU's board of
trustees and the U. Besides, politics has no place in sports; another reason not
to get too heartbroken over the PAC10 sub.
Nice personal attacks Bluto and Where's Stockton. Thanks for that.However, the truth (which you did not refute with any of your blather) is that
the Trustess of BYU (who also happen to be the Trustees of the LDS Church)
actively joined-in and participated in an election here. The Trustees of the
two newest members of the PAC 12 did not. In all respects, the athletic programs
of BYU equal or exceed the programs of the two admitted schools. They were
admitted, BYU was not.UC Berkely has and has had radical students
but also has many conservative students and professors (John Yoo would be one).
@WastintimeOk, we get it. We know what floats your boat. We
understand you are still upset with the whole Prop 8 thing. But
really now, this is about sports. And BYU did not take a stand any more than
Notre Dame did.African Americans were for it by 70%, Hispanics by
80%, All Faiths Catholics, Evangelicals, Jews, Muslums, and those with no Faith
at all, voted for it (52 to 48%), as they have in every other State where it
made it to a ballot. This is America. Live to fight another day. Use
the Constitutional process, not back-door approaches such as Judicial Fiat.BYU (LDS) is your scape-goat for now, but your opposition is much, much
larger than the LDS."You're gonna need a bigger boat"JawsAs I've stated before, Glenn Tuckett knew in 1985 that a Faith
based school would never be a good fit for the Pac 10. see Baylor, last
summer.Stop acting as if they did not understand this. And stop
pretending the Administrations from top to bottom in the Pac 10 are not driven
by "Political Agendas". That is just absurd.
Independence is a wonderful thing, stay out as late as you want, no one telling
you what to do our when to be some place. It is exciting to be the one in charge
of your destiny.However, I do like Mom's cooking and using her
washing machine and clothes dryer.Yep Independence has its own set
of problems, but it is cool to figure out your very own answers.For
now lets roll around in the independent mud and and have some fun !!!!
WastintimeOh then... what you are saying is that the entire 60's didn't
happen in California...politically speaking that is???...and of couse Stanford
didn't reinstate ROTC back on campus in this... the 21st Century
either...Right??? So I won't even need to mention U. of Cal's role during those
times. According to you that didn't happen...politically speaking. When were
you born??? Early or late 90's??? It obviously shows...either that or you got
stuck somewhere in a time warp. Oh and by the way there's a new report out
based on research from the CDC that gays only make up 1.6% of the U.S.population
and not the mythical 10% that they have been flinging around for
years...politically speaking that is.
"Berkely is the Mother-Ship of political movements"What
election did the Trustees of the University of California directly enter into on
one side and attempt to influence? Be specific.
@Wasteintime"Major conferences do not want to see their members
orchestrating policial movements"LOL...This is the funniest
thing I have ever heard.You are obviously very young if you think
the schools of the Pac-10 have not, do not, and will not continue to do just
that.Cal Berkely, Palo Alto, Seattle, Eugene, LA......Helooo,
anybody home?Wow, History truely is not being taught anymore.Berkeley is the Mother-Ship of political movements. Are you kidding? No, true to the Liberal mindset, they will not tolerate debate or a
"Conservative" point of view. We know ow they roll. so, if you have
loose standards, have a socialistic bent and love all left leaning agenda's,
you're good. Otherwise look at the Independence route, and that's
right where BYU wants to be.
@blutoPlease pay attention to what was said before responding.I did
not say BYU will not make money as an independent (I said nothing about
independence). I simply stated the fact (and the reason why) BYU will
never be invited to join a major conference.
@BlutoOur sources say your sources are up in the night.
@wasteintimeAnd this is why BYU has talked about Independence for 25
years, planned for 15 and been spending millions in construction projects for 5
years.This is not a knee jerk reaction. Glenn Tuckeet, AD through
the 70's and 80's stated, that he knew in 1985, that BYU would never be invited
to the Pac 10. The Presidents were to liberal to ever allow a faith
based school. This is why Baylor was wedged out with Colorado while negotiations
were still going on with Texas and Oklahoma. etc.In essense, the
anti-religious bias of the pac 10 killed the big 6 expansion. Because the Texas
Legislature made it clear, no Baylor, no Texas.Advantage-Utah.So, Commisioner Scott went to plan D, and took the leftovers, of Utah,
to make 12.Not what they set out to do. But there you have it.
@wastintimeOne mans outcast is another man cashing in on their
National Brand.ESPN does not pay millions for and share their
National Air-time, 7-9 games per season, with Outcasts.No, they
leave them (outcasts) on the "Not to be Picked" scrap pile...See utah
and Wazzu.BYU will be just fine with Independence in Football, so
don't lose any sleep now.psBYU had 8 ESPN games in 2001. This
is not new to BYU or ESPN.
BYU can clearly play with the big boys. No doubt about that. And BYU travels
well. No doubt about that either. The Sunday play is a minor issue (almost a
non-issue) in my estimation. But what I said above remains: Major conferences
do not want to see their members ochestrating policial movements, particularly
ones that may alienate huge groups of fans and reflect negatively on other
conference members. BYU is a "loose cannon" in that respect, so they
will NEVER be invited to join a major conference.
Let's boil this down Howie...A Neutral game, is akin to a Bowl game.
*TCU-BYU Cowboy Stadium 2 million ESPN*Oklahmona-BYU was
1.5 million (before Independence)*WVU-BYU-2.5 millionBYU
will receive large gaurantees for their Road games, 1 to 1.5 million, especially
when ESPN does the match-making.Utah receives no gaurantees for
their Conference Road games other than a return game. All of Utah's revenues are
tied to the Conference.You need to understand, BYU can create many
deals with many scenarios. They can play 6 or 7 or 8 or 9 home games. It's up to
them.Nebraska and Florida often have as many as 8 home games, and
that is playing within a Conference.Neutral site games are a wave of
the future. Many more programs will be doing them.BYU is working on
several Home-Home-Neutral Game arrangements. ESPN is behind this new dynamic.
No, BYU won't be Informing YouAs Commisioner Scott has
stated recently, we are trying anything and everything, even Sunday and Monday
games if the NFL strike continues.The Pac will be playing many Thus/Fri
games according to Scott.
Cougars1Actually, Cougars1 you are correct.After
consulting my inner accountant I concur that that there is no cost associated
with acquiring a replacement game because that game comes with its own gate and
costs (either a return game, or one and done payout) just like any other
game.However, the point still stands that neutral site payouts, such
as $2.25 million for WVU, are not as valuable as broadcast right payments. With
a broadcast right payout the home team gets to keep the gate and the broadcast
payment.Neutral site payouts basically replace the gate that would
have been received if it were a home game. However out of that payment must
come the cost of travel.
re: Y grad/Y dad One NC versus two BCS wins. Fact. Two teams evenly matched
over the last several years. FactI can live with that. Why can't U?
I can live with that too! I have said that for years...at the end of
the season, Utah and BYU frequetly have the same record.
The territory argument means nothing, BYU IS scheduling in Florida, DC, Texas,
Miss, etc To play 4 away games in FL, Louisville, Conn, West VA, Pitt fits
perfectly in.the Cougars plans. If the offer is legit, you have to take it, the
Big. E is the only brass ring left on the BSC merrygoround. If you can't get
past the Big E was lousy and the MWC WAS BETTER. wake up it's 2011. Teams fled
the MWC like a sinking ship. BYU WON'T be part of the Big 12, the fervor over
the 2009 beating of OK and the "hey you boys belong" is now gone. The
Sunday play won't cut it and the Big 12 won't do Football Only. If Tom Holmoe
let this slip through his fingers, he can help out Val Hale at UVU. You don't
block an opportunity to take the BCS OR BUST EXPRESS from pulling into the bully
depot and keep your job. Since the shafting by the Fiesta St. Prison Bowl in
1996, Cougar fans want just ONE THING, to play at the top, to get respect the
top gets, to pay for real money.
BYU has virtually no chance of being invited into a "bible-belt"
conference like the Big-12. When are you people going to understand how much
evangelicals dislike mormons?The PAC-12 was BYU's best bet, but the
California university presidents will never sign off on that after the Church's
participation in the disrespecful Prop 8 campaigning here. Major conferences do
not want to see their members ochestrating policial movements, particularly ones
that may alienate huge groups of fans and reflect negatively on other conference
members. BYU is a "loose cannon" in that respect, so they will remain
HowardYou have too much time on your hands. To simplify it for you, that
is why you do 2 for 1 games with an opponent; like Notre Dame is doing with BYU.
Only BYU would probably have to get a WAC team. The WAC team travels twice with
no money, but they get to cash in on an extra 10 to 20 thousand fans when BYU
visits. BYU has a great opportunity this year with 7 home games AND
a neutral site game with TCU. That is the beauty of Independence. And if the AD
is on top of it, the neutral site game becomes a net gain as in the case this
year.BYU also gets a check from playing Texas this year since it is
a one and done and not included in the home and home deal they have in the
Part IIWith a straight up home and home like Utah and Pitt there is
no need for Utah to replace a home game because of a neutral.Utah
keeps the gate at home and pays to travel to pay at Pitt.Even-Steven... That's why home and homes are superior to home/home/neutrals
@Cougars1Okay lets get into this. A neutral site
creates the for a replacement game at home.In order to have a full
slate of six home games, for every neutral site game, an additional home game
must be found.You can find an additional home game in one of two
ways... First - Do a one and done with a team that will come to your
stadium without a return game. In this case you have to pay that team to come
which is the replacement cost of the additional game.Second - Do a
home and home with another team to get the additional home game but you have to
go to their place (without pay like Utah at Pitt) and the cost of that trip is
essentially the cost of the replacement game.In either case their is
a cost of replacing the neutral game with a home game.You may get
$2.25 million for a neutral game, but the costs include:Lost gate
from a home game:Travel cost:Cost of replacing the home game:See part II.
@Tomahawk RedI think you make some very good points. Although, the whole
bit about BYU having a deal with ESPN is going to be brought up a lot simply
because they are now BYU's partner. Get used to it.@Howard"But here's the point... $2.25 million is not much of a payout when you
consider that for neutral game BYU loses the gate from a home game... lets say
$1.25 million."Great point; but normally a game on the road is an
expense. $1,500,000.00 in profit is better than $750,000.00 in the hole. I doubt
Utah is getting paid for their trip to Pitt this year. You can't deduct gate
receipts for a lost home game unless they have only 5 home games that year, but
this year they have an extra home game; so that's kind of like a bonus
$1,250,000.00 to $2,000,000.00 for this year. You do make a good point, but your
math is fuzzy.
@Tomahawk Red | 6:05 p.m. May 28, 2011 North Salt Lake, UT You
think it's only the Y that's focused on money, go to "Pac-12 media deal
likely to net Utes more than expected" in the DNews and see if your fellow
utes fans are concerned with utahs cash.
@Bluto"...little chuckle at Howies expense..."******That will be great. In the meantime I'll just
enjoy the reality that the Cougar Nation can't provide verification for what
they pass off as fact. "...Move on"...? That's what one
suggests when there is nothing to support their position.
Ducky,So I googled the story "WVU to face BYU at FedExField in
'16" from the Charleston Gazzette /Sept 23 2010.Zero
mention of a game payout.What else do you have?Crickets
@Howard S.Jethro Tull had a hit song called "Thick as a
Brick". Ring a bell?The announced ESPN games are...TCU..........ESPN...fridayUtah St......ESPN...fridayCFU..........ESPN...fridayUtah.........ESPN2..saturdayOregon
State.....TBAHawaii...........TBAOle Miss.........TBA (This
game was brokered by ESPN, most likely a friday game. They don't broker games
without showing them.The last 3 all have reports out of Hawaii,
Mississippi and Oregon confirming. Again, for the last time, the games are not
officially listed until the dates and times are set. The contracts have been
signed.If that is not enough for you, then just wait and see, and
when it's confirmed, then what Howie?Organizations leak information
all the time before official pronouncements. Sometimes covertly and sometimes
overtly, if you don't understand this, seriously, look around. Reporters have
their sources. The D-News does not allow links. You'll
have to be creative and do your own digging. However, it' apparent you have your
mind made up. So we'll all move on now and have a little chuckle at Howies
expense when it's made official.
@Duckhunter"...BYU and WVU would each receive 2.25 million for
their game in D.C."**********Nice work Duckhunter.
Thanks... Really...But here's the point... $2.25 million is not
much of a payout when you consider that for neutral game BYU loses the gate from
a home game... lets say $1.25 million. Now consider that they have
to travel across the country... lets say $750,000. So the game
costs BYU $2.0 million... they make $250,000 all for the privilege of playing
WVU in what amounts to a home game for them.Doesn't sound like such
a great deal to me. Oh, and that still doesn't validate claims of
$8.0 million for home games and $1.0 to $1.5 for road games.
@HowieI've now twice tried to post a quote from an article from last
September in the Charleston Gazzette stating BYU and WVU would each receive 2.25
million for their game in D.C.For some reason the Dnews sensors keep
denying it. If by some miracle this one makes it through and you can use the
google function then you can find it. There are also some others out there
stating BYU will receive similar money for other similar games. Once again, the
A few things...1) @phoenix... Your remark makes no sense. how do you
average an unranked team? You take all 56 weeks that BYU placed in the top 25,
and get an average rank. Same for Utah. The higher of the two is better. But if
you wanna go with end of season rank, I'll play... Utah was #2 at the end of
2008.2) BYU is a partner with ESPN. Utah is not. So why are all you
bragging that BYU has more national TV games than Utah? Wasn't that expected?
Hardly something to keep bragging about.3) Why does every Y fan
bring up the cash BYU will get? Who cares? Does that tell us who has more Ws?
It's funny how you keep bringing this up... cuz you'll never see a dime of
it.4) Everyone on this board is a hypocrite. Y fans hack on U fans
for reading/posting on Y articles... as if you guys don't do the exact same
thing. Get over it... we all do the same thing.
@Veritas AequitasA poster on D-News does not get the numbers.**********Not asking for classified information.Simply
asking for a reference to published information that several BYU posters claim
to have seen.If its published information it shouldn't be to hard to
find. I've tried and I can't find it.I'd hate to think that the
multi-millions that BYU is making on ESPN games is just another BYU myth that
takes on credibility through repetition.
Howard S. | 4:24 p.m. May 28, 2011 Taylorsville, UT @CougFaninTX"I have seen the $2 - $2.5M for neutral site games and $1 - $1.5M
for away games in a couple of articles also."***********I'm begging... pleading... for someone to make a specific reference to a
verifiable, published report supporting $2 - $2.5M for neutral site games and $1
- $1.5M for away game.===="Speaking of our tough
schedule, Adelson has the BYU-Texas game at #2 on her three top Non-AQ games of
the season. The other two are Boise State-Georgia and Boise State-TCU. In her
non-AQ games to watch she includes three more BYU games. BYU-Ole Miss, Utah-BYU,
and BYU-TCU."Beg and plead. A poster on D-News does not get the
numbers.Go figure....Howard, beg and plead, but you will
not get the figures. Private schools don't fall under the freedom of information
act.For the sake of argument, BYU makes a dollar a game
(Unrealistic, I know). But, figure $1 for espn to broadcast the games.The U's cut for their only National TV game is how much?
@CougFaninTX"I have seen the $2 - $2.5M for neutral site games
and $1 - $1.5M for away games in a couple of articles also."***********I'm begging... pleading... for someone to make a
specific reference to a verifiable, published report supporting $2 - $2.5M for
neutral site games and $1 - $1.5M for away game.I've looked and I
can't find any such report.btw, Bluto essentially admitted he's
making it up.
@Howard S. I have seen the $2 - $2.5M for neutral site games and $1
- $1.5M for away games in a couple of articles also. Sorry, I'm too lazy to go
back and try to find them again, especially for a ute fan - no disrespect
intended. I haven't seen the $8M for a home games in any of my reading, but
that would be sweet if it's true' it seems high to me.You're not
serious about your comment that BYU's leap to independence was a knee jerk
reaction, are you? BYU has been planning this for years, knowing that the PAC10
would not select a religious institution and knowing that Utah was a strong
possibility for the PAC10, now PAC12. There is no question that the timing
corresponded with the Utes move. BYU was not going to stay in the MWC without
Utah when they had a much better option available. BYU's exclusion
from the PAC12 had nothing to do with the quality of their athletic programs,
and everything to do with religious discrimination.@Hank Pym Your dis of ESPN makes me question whether you're really a sports fan.
Don't care how many games BYU and Utah get on ESPN, BYUtv or FOX or ABC, CBS,
NBC as long as they are not on the Mountain. Both schools are going to make more
money to spend on upgrading their programs. That should translate into better
teams in the future. If the Y improves enough to get invited to a BCS Conference
like BIG12 then more power to the Cougars. Utah is set and now just needs to
produce the real goods in a power conference. I'm a Cougar fan but Ute success
doesn't impact my team unless we lose 4 and 5 star recruits that otherwise
would've attended the Y. Hopefully both staffs will fight hard to get nothing
but the best. We've already got the Pope coming to the Y, what more is there in
@Bluto"...we've done our research, have our sources and stand
by those sources."******I love, love, love this
response.We (you and your team of researchers, I presume) have
checked your sources and you know that BYU will get $8.0 million for home games,
another 1 to 1.5 million for away games, and $2 to 2.5 million dollars for
neutral site games annually.Even though you can't say who your
sources are and no one is reporting this, you stand by your sources.Okay... now I'm convinced.Oh, and btw, my research team has
learned that BYUs leap to independence was a knee jerk reaction to Utah's
invitation to the PAC 12 in a desperate attempt to avoid the perception of being
left behind in the wasteland of non-AQ mid-major football. Trust
me, those of us in the know understand this... and I stand by my sources.
Okay, let me pretend for a moment to be a voice of reason. As of this moment,
four national broadcasts to one. That is certain. Utah's one national
broadcast? Is BYU's game. Who is riding who's coattails? That would be
speculation. But I would speculate in favor of BYU. We know that
last year, Utah got off to a fast start playing cupcakes, then stumbled at the
end of the season, almost losing to BYU. This is fact. BYU got off to a
horrible start, not only losing the tough games, but AF and (sigh) USU, clawing
back to mediocrity by beating the same cupcakes Utah beat. This is fact. At the
end of the season, BYU and Utah ended the season fairly even. This is debatable
but not much. One NC versus two BCS wins. Fact. Two teams evenly
matched over the last several years. FactI can live with that. Why
"We say to you, we've done our research, have our sources and stand by
those sources"bluto,Your almost there..just one more step
and all this heartache goes away.Again, What are your creditable
sources? Please list them.thanks
re: Cougars1 | 1:11 p.m. May 28, 2011 What the deuce is so great
about ESPN? The same network that thinks highly of A-Rod, Mark
Sanchez, & Lebron are the now thinks highly of byu? The same
network that keeps trotting out Chris Berman, Stuart Scott, and Barry Melrose as
well as insisting that Mark May & Keyshawn Johnson are "experts"?
re: TheSportsAuthority | 4:48 p.m. May 27, 2011 **"Where are
all the Utah County entrepreneurs though? Haven't seen any "Quest for a
Conference" shirts yet."They're busy printing "Quest
for PAC 12 South" t-shirts for Utah fans.**Except (& I hate
to weigh you down w/ facts) that Utah is ALREADY in the Pac12 South.
@HowardApparently this is very important for you to refute, as if
your entire self worth is riding on it.We say to you, we've done our
research, have our sources and stand by those sources.Do your own
research, we already have.If you are waiting for a certified letter
form Tom Holmoe, forget it. Theer are however enough in the know to sort it
out.The only thing you need to worry about is which local TV station
you can see the Utes play on.BYU knows where to catch their games
and we'll be watching with the National Broadcasting of every single Football
and Basketball Game....did we mention National TV?
re: Go Big Blue!!! | 10:47 p.m. May 26, 2011 "Keep dreaming
coug fans. Don't let reality phase you"The y haven't yet.
@Bluto"All On the ESPN Networks."*********So many supposed facts... so little verification...And speaking of
verification, I would love for you to reference just one verifiable published
source for you claims of the financial terms for BYU's ESPN games. *8 million for Home games and another 1 to 1.5 million for away games*2
to 2.5 million dollars for neutral site games annuallyJust one
@Howard S.Utah State Utah CFU Ole Miss Hawaii Oregon State TCU and Texas will make 8.All On
the ESPN Networks.
@BlutoNot sure why you're calling me out as a hypocrite on the BCS.
My stance has stayed the same for years. You seem to have very strong feelings
about this, though, so call me what you want. As an aside, I agree
that the 1996 Cougars would have been in the BCS, despite the one loss, had the
BCS existed then as it does now. No question that BYU has an "AQ"
quality program. So ease up, my friend.Riverton Cougar, My
point wasn't that 2001 Cougars were not a good team or were not worthy of BCS
discussion when they were 11-0. But at the time, they were not ranked highly in
the BCS. The Fiesta was later justified when it saw Hawaii drop 72 on the Cougs
and then saw Louisville beat them 28-10 in the Liberty. I feel that may have
lessened the cause of the "non-AQs"--something '98Tulane, '99Marshall
and '00 TCU did to advance. I stand by my assertion that '04Utah
would have gone to the Fiesta whether or not the 2001 Cougs existed. But in a
BYU-centric mind, nothing gets done without the mighty Cougs.
FactsBYU will have no less than 4 games on ESPN.Utah will have one
game on ESPN.No one knows how much BYU is making from ESPN.Utah has
no idea how many or which game will be broadcast nationaly other than BYU/Utah.
@WildCat???...Ok Cougs who stepped on the kitty's tail and got this guy all
excited about some guy named Lillard being so much betther than Jimmer Fredette.
Did anyone see or even hear this Lillard guy's name being bantered around or
broadcast live all over sporting's Kingdom Come... or over the Tournament live
broadcasting...or on the covers of numerous sports magazine... or even radicaly
critcized for just being the Jimmer by Sports Radio's own version of Glen
Beck..Collin Cowherd of ESPN. Little Kitty...watch yourself you're about ready
to lose your tail.
I forgot to end my last comment with this. If you are a Ute fan and feel a
compulsion to read articles about BYU and then not make comments you could at
the very least be a closet fan.
@Bluto"Texas makes 8"******Didn't you
suggest 9 in an earlier post?I fear that the facts cited by some
Cougars are made up to suit the argument at the moment.
@phoenix"That's 6 games, minimum, 9 or more games
possible."******The ESPN deal with BYU called for a
minimum of 3 BYU home games to be broadcast on ESPN (read the press release).By you own reasoning those three have been set... Utah, Utah St., and
UCF.If Hawaii and TCU have been announced, that's a total of 5 that
have been announced with none remaining on the three game home minimum.Additional games may be picked up depending on how BYU does, but at this point
those are speculative.Yet, BYU fans continue to state as fact
anything from a minimum of 6 to as many as 9 ESPN broadcasts.They
also state as fact financial terms which have never been reported.I
wonder why that is?Here are facts... BYU has never been played in a
BCS bowl game when that barrier has been broken by three teams before them, they
have never received an invite from a BCS conference, and they hold the same BCS
status as Army and Navy.Those are facts that reflect relevance in
the modern era of BCS football.
If you are a Ute fan and feel a compulsion to read articles about BYU and then
make comments you are most likely Enemy Centered. If you are Enemy
Centered...Your security is volatile, based on the movements of your enemy. You
are always wondering what he is up to. You seek self-justification and
validation from the like-minded.You arecounter-dependently guided by your
@howard S.We've explained this many times. The TBA games
are not officially listed until the date and times are set. That's why only the
4 are listed. The contracts have been signed, nonethe less, contrary to your
wishes.It is fact that as of now the ESPN games Nationally for BYU
are.....Utah State Utah CFU Ole Miss Hawaii
Oregon State TCU and Texas will make 8. On ESPN.BYU-TV then can televise same day re-broadcasts of all ESPN games and all
other games will be on National/International BYU-TV. 60 million homes all on
Basic Tier. Unlike the Big-10 Network or soon to be Pac-10 network, which is on
a premium package.
Howard S.BYU's contract with ESPN is open-ended, meaning that the
game-to-game payout can vary, but many sources have said that ESPN will
broadcast a minimum of 4 BYU home games each season, at $2 million each, plus
neutral site games at around $2.5 million. West Virginia was announced at $2.5
million, and TCU is in that neighborhood. BYU will receive $1 for playing a
Mississippi even though television coverage hasn't been announced, yet.The reports are out there, even though, BYU, being a private institution,
doesn't report specifics of contracts "officially".
Howard S."I wonder why BYU fans state their wishes and hopes as
fact."I wonder why Utah fans state their wishes and hopes for
BYU's failure as fact:-- BYU will never be invited to a BCS game-- BYU will never win a BCS bowl-- BYU will never be able to schedule
any decent teams-- BYU is irreleventUnlike Utah, which is left
to the wims of the ABC/ESPN moguls in scheduling, BYU has a contract with ESPN
to televise a minimum number of BYU home games; therefore, it's not just
"wishful" thinking on the part of BYU fans when they state that BYU
will be playing on ESPN at least "x" number of times.BYU's
games at TCU and at Hawaii have already been announced. Home games against Utah
State, Utah, and UCF have already been announced. One more home game televised
on ESPN is guaranteed. And Texas, Oregon State, and Mississippi are still very
likely.That's 6 games, minimum, 9 or more games possible.Plus all BYU games that aren't televised on ESPN, will be televised nationally
What's the Food Nanny? For real.
@ Bluto*Be on ESPN 7-9 times this year? Or ever?*Receive 8
million for Home games and another 1 to 1.5 million for away games?*Schedule 2 to 2.5 million dollar Neutral Site games annually, with ESPN?************I wonder why BYU fans state their wishes and hopes as
fact.The BYU tv schedule show only 4 games on ESPN for 2011, not
7-9.I'm not aware of any legitimate news report of $8 million for
home games and $1 to $1.5 for road games. I have never seen any
report of $2 to $2.5 million for Neutral games.Do these reports
exist only in the minds of the Cougar Collective, or are they real?Oh and as for BYUtv, the Food Nanny is also on but that doesn't mean anyone is
MaxBYU may not have been able to get to a BCS bowl in the brief
history of the BCS, but the Cougars have already accomplished FAR more in their
football history than many of the teams that have played in a BCS bowl.Tomahawk Red Sorry, your whole premise is flawed. How do you
calculate an "average" ranking when a team is unranked? Utah fans argue that didn't beat a ranked team in 1984 because neither
Pittsburgh nor Michigan were ranked in the final poll even though both teams
were ranked as high as #3 during the season. Final ranking, therefore, is the
only ranking that matters. It doesn't matter if Utah is ranked in
the upper half of the Top 25 ALL season, but crashes and burns at the end of the
year to finish unranked in the final AP poll. Utah has only managed to be ranked
5 times in the final AP poll in Utah's entire history.
@Tomahawk RedActually Oregon St. has already been picked up for an
ESPN broadcast, with BYU!And you think any Utah game will be on Fox
National?Fox, yes............. REGIONAL!
I think it is interesting how we get our Display Names:"Papa
Smurf is a gentle, wise, and knowledgeable village elder. He serves as the
Smurfs' leader and as a paternal figure to whom the Smurfs usually go to when
they require counsel."But its fiction...See, on the
cartoon world, Papa can gather the kids around at his feet. He has the answers,
even if mad up, and people listen.I would guess that this is the way
things are in Papa Smurfs life. He has several groupies sitting around his feet,
and whn he makes a statement, there are a lot of "ohhhh"s, and
"ahhhhh"s.but PSU, this is a real world where people ask
you tocite your assertations.That is why you backed off the radio
story a few days ago.People just don'e believe you because you are
"Papa Smurf".Friendly advice. Opinions are like
"behinds", everyone has one.If we want to get past bias'
and opinions, we need credible sources.Your quote about ESPN, Urban,
and players need to have a source.I appreciate what you bring.Just make it real, and not something you heard.That would
give you credibility.
@HedgieOnce more, you set up Strawman arguments to take focus off
the debate at hand.You cannnot deny that BYU with Orrin Hatch and
Lavell Edwards, through 2 rounds of Senate hearings, did put pressure on the BCS
to change the rules and provide greater access. Thus, BYU and their friends in
high places created a paradigm shift which enabled others to benefit.The world is not a vacuum and a program which has been fairly inept for 50
years, then has 6 good years, and refuses to acknowledge the Trailblazers that
went before, are just infantile.Legacy schools like BYU Honor those
who went before, some programs Don't Have enough History or Legacy to honor.@HowardSArmy and Navy have Heisman winners and National
Championships and more exposure than Utah will ever have..*Will
Utah... *Be on ESPN 7-9 times this year? Or ever?*Receive 8
million for Home games and another 1 to 1.5 million for away games?*Have
their own National/Int. TV Network? (60 million homes/BasicTier).*Schedule
2 to 2.5 million dollar Neutral Site games annually, with ESPN?*Every game
Nationally televised?BYU is in great company, you're InWazzuLand
Denial ain't just a river in Egypt. Yes, it is tough to get to a BCS bowl by
"your lonesome" but it is also tough to get there in a conference and
BYU was never able to get there as a member of the MWC. The article was a bit
delusional. I hope he is right that the Big East or the Big 12 will be
interested. The Pac 12 (what was it doing in the survey???) has already revealed
that it has no interest in BYU. I think we need to get over it and move on. I
will hope for the Big East, but the Big 12 makes more sense geographically.
However, BYU does not have the market power Texas. The Big 12 will not make any
accommodations for BYU the way they did for Texas.
Papa Smurf UTE | 4:39 p.m. May 27, 2011 Herriman, UT Veritas, "I will get them to send the trophy to you. What is your parents
address by the way? Also, here are a few of the names that were interviewed
right after the Utah vs Byu game in 2004 that said they were better than USC,
and could compete with anyone. Scott Young, Fahu Tahi, Cameron Jensen, and Aaron
Fransico."===LOL. Is that smack? It's weak. First... Send it to my parents address? Why bother them? They are in their
eighties. Send it to my home, and I'll see it gets to the U.As for
you "quote" soon to be scripture because it might have been uttured by
Saint Urban... Dude you still have no source.Source for players
quote?After telling us a couple days ago there were never any feeler
calls, you apologized and retracted.You can't make up things to
support your theories.If we are going to have a legitimate
discussion, or stick to things that can be verified.I think you have
insight to offer, but "stories" are great for grandkids, but not for
supporting a position.
@joecoog,I appreciate your well thought and statistically backed
claim, however those stats can also be misleading and lure you into a false
sense of security. What those ranks do not account for is how high
each team reached, or how consistently each team appeared in the upper half of
the top 25.For example, using your logic, Team A might spend 55
weeks ranked in the top 25... while Team B only notched 45 weeks. However, if
Team A has an average rank of 20, and Team B has an average rank of 14... Team B
is clearly the superior team. I don't know what the average rank of
BYU or Utah over that time span is, but I suspect that if you look, Utah will
register the higher average rank.
StackhouseHead-to-head you're close, but as far as national
accomplishments, except for 1964 and 1994, Utah was non-existent until 2003.BYU became a nationally recognized program during the late 70's and has
been a perenially Top 25 team since then, winning a national championship, a
Heisman Trophy, 14 other national individual awards, and having 6 players and a
coach inducted into the college football hall of fame.Utah made some
noise with its two BCS wins, but not a single Utah player has ever won a
national individual award.
Howard S."I just cannot wrap my mind around the concept that
with all the BYU cachet, individual awards, and table setting activities that
they could be left to join the kiddie table of college football with Army and
Navy."What you really can't wrap you mind around is after all
of the arrogance and chest beating of Utah fans since last June, when the PAC 12
ABC/ESPN television schedule was announced, the Utes were COMPLETELY ignored.If not for the cachet of their big brother down south, the kids on the
hill wouldn't even be playing on ESPN this year.The mighty PAC 12
Utes having to beg for a bone from the "irrelevant" Independent
Cougars.Weird... just weird...
PS - There are FOUR primetime games TBD on ABC/ESPN schedule for 2011. So you should prob hold off on all the "Utah didn't get any national TV
games" talk until these TBD games are settled and Fox makes their picks in
a couple weeks.
Bluto... let me school you a little.Oregon State wasn't awarded any
ABC games either. what you fail to realize, though, is that Fox still gets to
pick up other Pac 12 games for their schedule. This will be settled in June.
re: Veritas Aequitas "A few days ago the D-news had a link posted that
quoted a Big East spokesperson saying an invitation to BYU had not been issued
and they were not ever considered. I can't find that link but a Byu guy
comminted on it. "Let me know what you turn up, because I do not
believe that it exists."I actually read the article on the link
so I know it exists, but I have searched all the articles I had read and I
cannot find it to prove it to you. I know I should have not brought it up on
this without being able to provide the link, but I was hoping someone else could
tell me where it was. I am sorry for even commenting on this. I do get very
tired of this being writen about every other day so I would hope that the
writers of these articles would do some research instead of just expressing
their opinions. And just for the record, It does not matter to me if BYU
goes to another conference or stays independent.
hedgehog"If BYU "set the table" Y did they not
partake in the meal?"BYU got close twice with 11-2, undefeated
MWC seasons in 2006 and 2007, which was the impetus for The Quest in 2008, the
logical next step. Just because it didn't work out, doesn't mean it was a
Judging by the number of posts here, either it's a real slow sports news week,
or BYU is quite relevant. Especially to certain so-called Ute fans. Heh.
The last 20 years BYU and the U have virtually the same record against one
another. For the 20 years before that, BYU dominated the U. For the 50 or 60
years before that, the U dominated BYU. The U has 2 BCS bowl victories. BYU has
a national championship. Thats the cold hard facts folks. If you dont believe me
look it up.
Ill be the first cougar fan to say that over the last 10 years the utes have had
great success and that I wish that byu could have gone to the 2 bcs games.
Having said that, to all you delusional utes who think the utes are superior
this is an interesting stat. during the first 10 years in the 2000s, the best
decade ever for the utes and the worst decade in 40 years for the cougars, the
utes spent 47 weeks in the ap top 25 good for 33rd and the cougars spent 56
weeks in it good for 28th. Im not saying this is automatically better than 2
bcs victories but just proving that the utes are delusional when they say that
utah is superior to byu
@Bluto I just cannot wrap my mind around the concept that with all
the BYU cachet, individual awards, and table setting activities that they could
be left to join the kiddie table of college football with Army and Navy.Weird... just weird...
BYU will succeed either as an independent or a conference member. The fish
are biting at Deer Creek and soon at Strawberry. Its time to go fishing and wait
till September for football.
MiP,You would have a really good point IF (as Bluto pointed out) the
BCS had denied BYU the chance to play in a BCS bowl AFTER they lost. But when
the BCS decided that BYU would not be invited, BYU was undefeated at the time.
It could be said that they lost their last two games as a result of that
rejection and Staley's injury (much like the BYU basketball team after the
giving credit to BYU for once again paving the way.Bluto,Although I think you're full of hot air. I must ask this;If bYu
"set the table" Y did they not partake in the meal? Five AQ teams have
tasted the fine dinning and two have been invited to BCS conferences.bYu? from what "history" has shown has not been to a BCS game and
because of a knee jerk reaction from Holmoe... will never.Hey,
thanks for "setting the table" and if you wouldn't mind...can you pour
me a another glass of your finest wine.....money is no object.
Does anyone really believe that BYU football is going to go quietly into the
sunset? Sure, the PAC 10 didn't want BYU for several reasons. But BYU will fit
in quite nicely in an AQ conference. It's a matter of time. The SEC is about
to show the PAC 12 how TV deals are done and the whole picture is going to
@MiPAnd remember, had the current rules been in effect earlier,
Tulane, Marshall, TCU and BYU would have played in these bowls, long before
Utah. Especially the 1996 14-1 5th ranked Cougars.Utah did not do
anything other teams hadn't done before them, they did have a new set of rules
to play by which got them their invites. The threat of an Anti-Trust
lawsuit is still looming, yet again.You see Utah, this whole
contrived phony self inflated status you now claim to have, is not real.What you despised a year ago, you now embrace. That is the ultimate
definition of a Hypocrite.When the BCS is no more, Utah will just be
another bottom level member of a Good Conference, every Conference has them.Deny facts if you will, because fiction is more important to U than
giving credit to BYU for once again paving the way.But those are the
@MiPGotta love young people who think History begins with them and
older people who never pay attention to current events and therefore have no
sense of History.1996 Bowl Alliance, 3 Conferences, excluding Pac 10
and Big 10.The Rules were any Top 6 team is gauranteed. BYU is
ranked 5th both polls, Lavell is in New York at ABC studios to accept his
invitation to one of the Major New Years Day Bowls.No Invite.Senator Hatch holds Senate hearings. 1998... BCS is created
when Pac 10 and Big 10 join forces with the 4 other Conferences. Loose
provisions are put forth to invite a team outside of the BCS leagues.2001... BYU Top 12 and 0, Doak Walker winner, BYU is told before Hawaii game,
No chancce....you're out.Tulane, TCU and Marshall are left out,
undefeated.This leads to another round of Senate Hearings. The
Non-BCS schools, team up with Tulane's President and they threaten a Federal
Anti-Trust Lawsuit at BCS meetings, if more access is not provided.New rules are written, and since 2004 a non-AQ has played in a bCS game.BYU did indeed pave the path for Utah.
Speaking of becoming biblical canon: "if it weren't for BYU's 2001 team,
Utah never would have been in the BCS" is a bit grandiose and ego-centric.
I have yet to meet anyone outside of Cougar Nation that actually believes
that.'04 Utah BCS busted because they won all of their games, most
in dominant fashion. As good as the Cougars were in 2001, they didn't do either
of those things = not enough to bust. While exciting to watch
(Mississippi St, for instance), that '01 Y team was bolstered by a cupcake
schedule (allusions to the '10 Utes). Moreover, '01 BYU made a big stink
(Tostitos anyone?) just before getting blown out by Hawaii and Louisville (more
allusions to the '10 Utes). I would argue that, if anything, 2001 BYU took the
non-AQ a step backwards.'98 Tulane and '99 Marshall, would be much
better arguments for paving the BCS road for the Utes (and those outside of
Cougar Nation seem to agree). If BYU did any favors to pre-'04 Utah , it was to
get killed by those teams in bowls so that as undefeateds and highly BCS ranked
non-AQ teams, they could complain.
Of course BYU is more than capable of being in a BCS conference, but their
geography and no Sunday play makes it difficult for them to get an invite. Pac-12:Would be the best fit, particularly with Utah and Colorado
in. But they have their biases and plan, and BYU is clearly not a part of it.BIG-12:Would be the next best fit geographically and without the
(likely) religious bias, but Texas appears content to be in a 10 team
league...they're boss.BIG-Ten:No way they would even consider
BYU.SEC:See Big-Ten.ACC:Too big and boring
already.Big East:The Big East appears to be interested in BYU
football only, but as Rock says, this has not been substantiated by major media
(I guess Rock is a media 'mid-major,' and can't make phone calls and
investigate). My guess is, if there was an invite, it was riddled with clauses
and things BYU wouldn't consider. If you can't make both sides happy because of
unreal expectations from both sides, you'll get no expansion.So for
now, BYU resides as an independent. Seems pretty good so far.
Great read, Doug. Always love your writing.My feeling is the BCS is
going to be history (hopefully someday soon), so any discussion on why BYU
should join any conference just for easier BCS access is a waste of time.BYU controls its own destiny now, and their bargaining power and brand
is only going to be strengthened. Counting down the days until BYU's debut indie
game at Ole Miss...
As an expat in Brazil I can say we are extremely anxious to get BYUtv sports.
And we are very excited that the PAC 12 is looking internationally. ...something the MWC would never do.There are roughly 8 million expats
in the world hungry for football and basketball. We get ESPN Brazil but they
only cover the NFL/NBA and it is not in English. Most Americans would watch the
Wildcats, the WCC, or the WAC too.
Funny how only trolls seem to pick at my Part ONE and Part TWO posts earlier for
this article. Guess they think that BYU being successful and getting BCS bowl
bids as an independent threatens them.Tough.Past history
has no bearing on whether BYU will get BCS bowl bids in the future, outside of
the fact the team has gotten better, and will continue to do so with Jake at the
helm.Odds are pretty high that BYU will be in a BCS bowl before Jake
graduates (or goes pro early).
Jimmer wowed people when he made 40 footers, but his crazy and selfish attempts
vs Florida basically cost them the game. I think the Jazz will draft Jimmer for
PR reasons, but I don't think he will have as good an NBA career as Lillard when
all is said and done. If not, I owe you a Coke. Lillard passes, plays
defense--skills needed in a professional game. It has been lean
times at Weber State for hoops lately, and they do face an uphill climb against
the U of U and BYU with the recruiting disadvantage, but they can still compete
with them, so no I don't think BYU is above anyone although they certainly act
that way. The Marriott is a tough place to play when you are a smaller
conference team, the scoreboard refereeing comes into play more (not making
excuses, that is a fact about basketball). I think Weber State has a good shot
at beating BYU on the road this year. We will have to wait and see.Too bad they don't play in the Big Sky--Weber State could play them twice.
The WCC will be bad and boring.
UU702"Where are all the Utah County entrepreneurs though?
Haven't seen any "Quest for a Conference" shirts yet."They're busy printing "Quest for PAC 12 South" t-shirts for Utah
fans.With USC stripped of 30 scholarships and not allowed to compete
in the PAC 12 championship game, with Utah being given a bye on not
having to play Oregon or Stanford, and with the PAC 12 south being
easier pickings this year than winning the MWC or beating BYU in Provo, this may be Utah's only chance to win their division for a long time.
Wildcat"the Wildcats didn't have their star player Lillard (far
better overall player than Jimmer)"Lillard far better than the
concensus national player of the year?Give it up, you're just
embarrassing yourself.#14 Weber State did have a nice win over #3
North Carolina in 1999, but if you look a little farther along that bracket, it
was #10 Gonzaga knocking off #2 Stanford and #6 Florida (the team that beat
Weber State), before losing in the regional final to #1 Connecticut 67-62 (the
team that won the National Championship), that really caused a stir among the
double-digit seeds.btw, BYU is 18-0 vs Weber State in the Marriott
Center and BYU has won 8 in a row vs WSU.
Veritas, I will get them to send the trophy to you. What is your
parents address by the way? Also, here are a few of the names that were
interviewed right after the Utah vs Byu game in 2004 that said they were better
than USC, and could compete with anyone. Scott Young, Fahu Tahi, Cameron Jensen,
and Aaron Fransico. Im sure that you are friends with all of these guys, and can
call them up to make sure that it is fact. We will never know though if we were
better than USC or Auburn that year. That's what is terrible about the BCS. Is
it good to be part of the BCS and make it to BCS games, yes. Since that is all
we have. We will never have a TRUE champion until we have a playoff.
@wildcatYou make it sound like SDSU is some kind of basketball powerhouse.
For the record, this year marked their first NCAA win ever. And with Leonard
and Gay gone they will slink back to MWC mediocrity. I expect UNLV to domincate
the MWC. New Mexico is always a bubble team with 20 - 25 wins and never quite
knowing whether or not they'll make it in. I expect Nevada to be a stronger
team year in and year out than SDSU or UNM.Everyone knows the Zags
are a proven performer, and St Mary's has had a lot of success lately. BYU will
continue to be strong as long as Rose is at the helm. WCC will definitely be
stronger than the MWC in basketball.
It would be great if BYU joined the Big East. But, it would be cost prohibitive
for all sports except football. So, a Big-12 ivitation would be the best option
if it comes. If not, I am happy with independence. I am already making plans
to see the game at Ole Miss this year and will probably attend the games at UCF,
GT and WVU in coming years. Thanks to Tom Holmoe and ESPN for making it
possible for fans in the east to see BYU football in person. These games will
also do wonders for exposing the east coast media to BYU sports. Go Cougars.
The Big East as an option...really? The Big 12 almost imploded over the course
of two weeks, and Texas will always have it a heartbeat away from extinction.
Why do you think Nebraska and Colorado walked away?Where are all the
Utah County entrepreneurs though? Haven't seen any "Quest for a
Conference" shirts yet.I love watching the speculation though
from a position of great comfort.GO UTES!
@Wildcat,I respectfully disagree with you. I have been pleasantly
surprised by how much they do know about BYU. Many of my friends have admitted
watching all or part of BYU games in the past before meeting me. They always
had good things to say about those games regardless of who won. They remember
them as exciting games. No, they won't be throwing parties for BYU games since
they are fans of other schools (that would be a silly expectation anyway) but
they do show some interest. It's more than just being able make good
conversation. I also know several people from Texas that think BYU would be a
good addition to the Big-12 conference.By the way, I have no hatred
towards any of the schools in Utah. I generally hope they all do well.
Papa Smurf UTE BYU 1996 was instrumental in pressuring the Bowl
Alliance to adopt rules that created an opening for non-BCS teams to be invited
to a BCS bowl when the BCS was created.BYU 2001 was instrumental in
forcing the BCS to relax its rules to give non-BCS teams greater access to BCS
bowls. The BCS announcing BEFORE the Hawaii game, when BYU was 11-0 and ranked
in the Top 10, that BYU wasn't going to be invited to a BCS bowl regardless of
whether BYU beat Hawaii, or not, was the impetus for threatened congressional
investigations that pressured the BCS into relaxing their entrance requirements
for non-BCS teams. It was those relaxed rules that allowed Utah to qualify for a
BCS bowl in 2004.Without BYU 1996 and BYU 2001, Utah 2004 wouldn't
have played in a BCS game.
Papa Smurf UTE | 3:42 p.m. May 27, 2011 Herriman, UT "Even now Urban Meyer and players from the Y have said that Utah was a
better team than USC that year."===I had no idea
that Urban Meyer and "players from the Y" (without names) have said
that.How long before it becomes included in the biblical canon?Will you go ahead and let the NCAA know about that, and get them an
address to send the "Better Than USC But Not As Good As Auburn" trophy
for us? That would be great...
Hedge is right.BYU is not "relivant".ESPN does
not think BYU is "relivant".The 100 plus posters on BYU
articles do not think BYU is "relivant".A 30 year old kid
posting in mom's basement in Ann Arbor does not think BYU is
"relivant".Teams are filling in BYU's independent schedule
because they do not think BYU is "relivant".
Wildcat, you are losing all credibility. Lillard is a far better overall player
than Jimmer? Come on! Oh, and you forgot to mention that BYU beat Arizona this
year...for the second year in a row. Did I mention that that was this year, not
clear back in 1996?
CordonBleu The bowl alliance did exist back in 1996, but that had
nothing to do with the UTES getting a BCS bid in 2004 thanks to the Y in 96.
Moderate was not spouting off, just stating the facts. The Bowl Alliance had
nothing to do with the BCS. They did create the BCS so that what the Y did in 84
when they backed into a voted national championship would never happen again, so
we can thank the Y for that, but that is about it. The BCS game that the UTES
got in 2004 was well deserved. Even now Urban Meyer and players from the Y have
said that Utah was a better team than USC that year. Maybe not Auburn though. If
you remember BYU played USC and Utah that year. So what BYU did in 96 and 2001
in no way got the UTES to the Fiesta Bowl in 04. They did that all on their own
after going 10-2 in 2003, being ranked and the end of the season, and also
ranked to start the 04 season, then going 12-0. That was all Utah, not BYU.
I'm betting that the Big 12 will start stealing teams from the PAC12. Since the
PAC doesn't have a "super team" like the Big 12 has in Texas, the Big
12 will not fail and have to settle for such pathetic teams like Utah and
Colorado like the PAC did.
@Benderman1You call beating a 3rd seeded Tarheels team luck? They
lost to Florida in the second round in OT that year. In 96 they lost to
Georgetown in the second round on a last second shot. When BYU beats Backwoods
State in the first round, who cares? BYU only beat Weber State by 5 this year
when the Wildcats didn't have their star player Lillard (far better overall
player than Jimmer). I don't think that is far from equal footing. Sure BYU
has the recruiting edge and as a result will have more talent than not, but when
all is said and done, BYU is not a big deal. I repeat: not a big deal.BYU's big wins: San Diego State (2), USU, Gonzaga. I'll take tournament wins
against the Spartans and Tarheels. Buddy, your embarrassing me quite frankly.
I expect more from a fellow Wildcat. You can like the Cougars more if you want
(although why would any Wildcat would want to), but BYU is far from big time and
would have done better in the MWC for BCS purposes--but I guess they like money,
so independence makes sense.
Big 12 ESPN blog: Fans speak out on Big 12 expansion By David UbbenMore than anything, what I learned from this expansion poll exercise is you
folks care about the concept of expansion ... a lot. I offered my suggestions,
you offered thoughts on those, as well as a handful of other combinations. I heard from a lot of you on this, more than I have on any other
singular issue in any offseason and most issues during the season. Here's a
sampling of what you had to say: Dave in Houston, Texas, wrote: Make
it BYU and TCU for expansion and I'd take it over any of the other options. Mike in College Station, Texas wrote: Why not pair BYU with it's natural
rival in Utah?BYU, TCU, Notre Dame, Arkansas, Arizona, Arizona
State, and Louisville were most frequently suggested teams.As Texas
Tech blog on Rivals had similar results.
Thanks Dutchman. My profile is updated. Raleigh, via Gainesville, FL and
Provo. And I still won't be watching any pac-12 games unless BYU is involved.
I would include UF, but we all know that is never going to happen.
Moderate"That is a heckuva trick, considering the BCS didn't
start until 1998."The BCS existed in a different incarnation
called the Bowl Alliance in 1996. Try studying history before spouting off.
Yes Hedgie...Bowling Green... one of the also homes of Urban Myer....Go drink
from the Great Black Swamp...and enjoy "No Joy" in Ann Arbor.
Wildcat,Your small and pathetic attempts at discrediting BYU are
laughable. If nobody outside of Utah cares about BYU, then why in the world
would ESPN sign an 8yr TV contract with BYU? ESPN seems to hold
some faith in Cougar football as well, to arrange meetings with Ole Miss, Texas,
TCU, WVU, Notre Dame, and GT to name a few. Also, how do you
explain the 20,000+ BYU fans packed in Cowboy Stadium to watch BYU beat OU in
2008. That is what I like to call National Presence. I am sorry,
but your delusional opinion of BYU football could not be further from the truth.
In fact, I dont think you even believe it yourself, why would you take the time
to come on a BYU article, read the comments and post multiple times about a team
that 'Nobody' cares about. Just a thought.After the astronomical
attention BYU basketball received this past year with the Jimmer and the Honor
Code, BYU has and will continue to become a household name. Now
hopefully the Football team can come-up with a historical season. And the
doubters and haters will scatter like cockroaches.
Hedgie... things have a tendancy to change...Scott failed misarably this time
around to create his PAC 16 and with Utah he'll soon realize that he may have to
change his mind especially since Utah is more tied to Hybrid BYU fan support
than he ever realized. Sorry Hedgie the only summation that is even remotely
logical is that Scott is even more Myoptically blind than you are...but a point
in your favor...he doesn't have the acute sense of smell that a hedgehog has for
quickly honing in on grubs and worms.
Isn't Wildcat cute?"...BYU until this year, couldn't get out of
the first round with favorable matchups--so don't go there."I
thought they got out of the first round last year. Maybe Wildcat knows better
than I do. Any school can have some luck here and there. "(Michigan State
(96) and North Carolina (00))." But play teams like that multiple times in
one year and see how you do. Don't get me wrong, I love Weber State and I
graduated from there. But please, don't embarrass a fellow alum by trying to
put them on equal playing field.
DeepBlue: "But it was BYU 1996 and BYU 2001 that forced the BCS to loosen
their restrictions on non-AQ teams."Wow! That is a heckuva
trick, considering the BCS didn't start until 1998. But such is the power of
the Cougars. They can affect things before they exist.Here is a
head scratcher. IF BYU is a guaranteed lock for the Big 12, who goes in with
them? Or is BYU so good, they count as two teams?
"Ok hedgehog, so you will that one person from SEC or BIG 10 country that
will pay the $10. Guess that's a start."bendmen,Such a telling statment of the BYU fan...and probably a big reason Y the Y is
not a fit for a conference ( let alone a BCS conference). This isn't just about
"Utah", the PAC12 Network will represent all the relivant Western
Universities. Do you think PAC12 gradutes are not allowed to travel East of
Boulder?The PAC12 Network is 100 times more relivant than anything
BYU could muster - Hence, the billion dollar price tag. The 'power" of 12
is what the PAC12 brings the U. Something the Y just can't seem to understand.
@Marked it DownThe addition of a weakened BYU team will not get two
to three bids. St Marys had a great team this year (lost to BYU by one and lost
to USU), but they didn't get a second invite. It would be at max two bids, and
it would take Gonzaga or St. Mary's to be a two or three loss team above another
good team to make it happen. There are no San Diego States, UNLVs, and New
Mexicos to make your schedule look good in the WCC. The high school-sized gyms
will suck to play in. Trust me BYU threw most of their programs under the bus
for football. I bet you most of the programs would rather compete in the Big
Sky than travel to the west coast to play Pepperdine, San Diego, San Francisco,
etc.It wasn't to long ago when Montana beat Nevada (one or two). It
has been a while since Weber State beat Michigan State (96) and North Carolina
(00), but BYU until this year, couldn't get out of the first round with
favorable matchups--so don't go there.
Cougar76,"I live on the east coast"But, your
username profile states that you live in Provo, UT. Do you need to report that
discrepancy to the honor code office?
Ravenal is right, Wildcat needs to get outside his "O-town" bubble. I
live on the east coast and I can assure you that everyone I talk to about
college football knows about BYU. Then there are the thousands of BYU alumni
and LDS Church members all across the country who bleed Cougar blue. Obviously
ESPN has invested millions of dollars because they think hundreds of thousands
of their viewers will care about BYU football. Outside of Utah? That regional
school up north is the one no one really cares about. You even have to thank
BYU for your one nationally televised game.
Wildcat The WCC will be a two or three bid league with BYU in the
conference with seeds in line with national rankings.When was the
last time a Big Sky received more than one bid, had a team seeded higher than
#12, or won an NCAA tournament game?
"Hedgie...not even you know what any conference, BCS or otherwise will or
will not do regarding BYU."Bowling green (LOL!)I
know of one conference that "will not" have the Y...that's the PAC12.
This after decades of BYU insiders saying it was a certain lock. Look, it's
very clear BCS conferences don't care enough about your self apointed
"footprint" or "cachet" - when you combine it with the heavy
baggage it's not worth the trouble.My guess is both the BIG12 and
BIGLeast will kick the tires and like the gas mileage... but walk away because
at the end of the day... it's still a lemon.
Yeah, sure, and the end of the world is coming last Wednesday.How
many different ways can the speculation nonsense be smeared around?If it happens, then it happens. Until then, just look forward to an
independent BYU Football season. There are more important ways to use your time
than having to read Brad Rock say the same thing over and over again. C'mon,
Brad, give us something with meat in it. Enough fluff to fill your article
quotas for DN.
Ok hedgehog, so you will that one person from SEC or BIG 10 country that will
pay the $10. Guess that's a start.
Mike W...wherever BYU ranks in the minds of the Big 12 will depend on how well
they do over the next couple of years. And with the exposure they will be
getting, and playing their beloved Texas, I'm sure their stock will only rise.
@RavenalLet me politely state that really isn't calling my bluff.
Knowing about BYU and caring about BYU are two different things. I am sure
people were bringing them up because they know BYU is a Mormon University and
were wanting to make good conversation. Would they set up parties for their
friends to come over and watch BYU football on TV? Probably not, they would
probably watch an SEC or Big Ten game, etc. Do they talk about hoping BYU gets
invited to the Big 12? Not likely.Just so you know, I am not a BYU
hater--I cheer for the best University in the state--WEBER STATE. I generally
wish every school in Utah well--unless they play Weber State or the Big Sky. I
will be cheering for Idaho State vs BYU, Montana State vs Utah, and for Wildcats
when they play USU. Other than that--go get'em.BYU should have
chosen the Big Sky over the WCC. Both conferences will be one-bid for
basketball (like this year was). No travel over empty states and better
facilities. Playing at high school-sized gyms will not be good for BYU.
Hedgie...not even you know what any conference, BCS or otherwise will or will
not do regarding BYU. The facts are there...Facts that even you... as blind and
myoptic as you are... cannot undercut. BYU has and will continue to always have
a much bigger footprint in drawing power than the Utes will ever have. Right
now your away games are predominately and almost totally dependant on the many
Hybridized BYU/utey fans out there who will turn on you in a minute when BYU
visits Salt Lake or the Utes visit Provo. You hardly have anyone outside of
Utah who are true Dyed in the wool, purist utey fans. It won't take the PAC
long to realize that. A couple of years at the most maybe. Enjoy your free
lunch and free ride. It's not Utah whose the Sucker. It's the PAC.
"Nobody in SEC or BIG 10 country care to pay $10 extra per month for the
PAC network"I disagree. I'll certainly pay a small fee to watch
the PAC12. I also guarnetee every bar/restuarant will carry PAC12 games - as
it's the only games on after 9:00est.
Wildcat...keep cheering for your little kittens. Your big brothers are trying
to have an adult conversation.
-PSUYB- The PAC 12 network will probably be available in most parts
of the country, but it will be a subscription service, so realistically, the
only fans who will have access will be the hard-core PAC 12 fans who are willing
to shell out an extra $10 to $20 a month.If not for the bone BYU
tossed to Utah for playing in LES, the Utes wouldn't even be on ESPN this year.
Even the Utes' PAC 12 debut at USC was ignored by ABC/ESPN.
On another note, if you go search the net for non-local talk about Big 12
expansion you find BYU is a bit further down the list... Don't be surprised if
Memphis/Louisville/Arkansas slip in ahead of them... makes more geographic
sense, would allow Oklahoma/OSU to slip to the north division and help balance
the divisions. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see BYU and
Boise/Air Force get the invite, it would be great to see Utah bringing in PAC 12
opponents and BYU bringing in Big 12 opponents. But just prepare yourself that
BYU may not be the first option you think that they are for the Big 12.
Re: Big 12 and BYU Sunday play issues.It's far less of an issue than
many of the naysayers would like to believe. BYU already plays men's volleyball
in the MPSF with teams like UCLA, USC and Stanford. The league plays Sunday
games all the time. The only accomodation they have to make for BYU is not
scheduling the MPSF volleyball tournament semi-finals and finals on Sunday.Not having tournament games on Sunday is hardly a deal breaker for a
conference that what's to add a quality program like BYU to their conference.
Thlete,Please provide a link or an article with information
legitimizing your statement that EVERY Utah game will be Nationally televised.
The truth is, each of these networks you named can only air 3-4
games on a given Saturday. Which makes it ridiculous to say that every PAC-12
team will be on National TV every week, especially while SEC, Big 10, Big 12,
ACC, Big East, Notre Dame, and BYU teams will each be getting their cut as well.
Every PAC game that is aired on ESPN/ABC/FOX, will be reserved for the
prestigious programs playing interesting match-ups that garnish national
attention. USC, Oregon, Stanford, and UW will retain most of the national
coverage. Look at the TV schedule for 2011. If the PAC-12
conference really valued or respected Utah at all, why is your only televised
game @ BYU? Ouch...But you are right, when the PAC-12
network is available, Utah will be playing on TV much more. But I'm afraid it
will be regional only. Nobody in SEC or BIG 10 country care to pay $10 extra
per month for the PAC network.
Mike WBYU's last BCS calibre team was 2001, before BYU's Doak Walker
Award Winner, Luke Staley, suffered a season-ending knee injury.But
it was BYU 1996 and BYU 2001 that forced the BCS to loosen their restrictions on
non-AQ teams, opening the door for Utah to bust the BCS in 2004.If
not for BYU, Utah never would have played in a BCS game.The Doak
Walker Award, just one of MANY national individual awards BYU players have been
receiving since the 80's.Someday, maybe, Utah will get their first.
Wildcat,I'm calling your bluff. I've lived in other parts of the
country over the years. One of the first things people bring up in conversation
after they find out where I'm from is BYU and they're sports programs.
Why do people make a big deal of this Sunday thing. Football is Saturday and
the BYU basketball game can be too. I played baseball there and we played
Thur-Fri-Sat series while everyone else in the MWC was playing Fri-Sat-Sun. You
can schedule all the other games on Sunday, no big deal.
Hey Mike...as a Ute fan and a UofU graduate, I'd like to point out that if you
subtract 6 years from 2011, you get 1996.
Why the pissing match as to whether UofU or BYU has the better deal? Its all
speculation. If BYU continues to win 9-11 games per year, independence will be
very good for it. If Utah continues its recent success year over year, the
PAC12 will be very good for it. Both programs worked out for themselves a
vastly better arrangement than the MWC. Time will tell if Utah is a perennial
doormat, or if BYU comes crawling back to some conference. On paper, the money
looks similar, UofU seems to have a more stable outlook being in an established
AQ conference whether they continue success or not. BYU has a greater upside
potential if it wins consistently, and greater risk if not.I'm still
mourning the loss of what could have been with UofU, BSU, TCU and BYU all in the
MWC. That would have been a very strong football conference with lots of
exciting games (that no one could ever see...ever). The games would have been
fantastic though.So congrats to both the Utes and Cougars. I hope
both schools fare well.
"Say BYU gets a BCS bowl once every 6 years (likely more often, playing the
way they are)."What are you smoking??? Once every SIX years?
Maybe once every TEN, and even that is probably a stretch... their last BCS
caliber team was 1996!
I know this may come as a big shock to BYU fans, but no one out of this state
really cares about BYU. The Big 12 is not going to select them, especially when
they have to rearrange their scheduling. Nice delusion though, better drink
some water and get hydrated there Brad.If BYU is about the money,
and the signs point that this is basically all they care about, then
independence is what they will have forever. Under these circumstances, they
will have to go undefeated to get a BCS bowl. If they play decent opponents
(with their opponent's officiating crew), it's not going to happen. They can
lighten up the schedule--but irrelevance either way.I bet after 5-7
seasons of ho-hum independence that BYU crawls back to the MWC on bended knee
and begs to get back in. The WAC will implode soon and BYU will not have them
to fill up the back-half of their schedule. Get ready for home and homes with
Louisiana Monroe. BYU should have joined the Big Sky for all non-football
sports--4th in WCC, nice.Rise and shout Cougar fans--at the moon!
I believe that one of the AQ conferences will invite BYU just so that Ohio
State, Texas, Florida, Alabama and others don't take a serious look at
Fortunately the only votes that count, are Pres. Samuelson, Tom Holmoe and the
BYU board of regents (or whatever The Brethren are called). I will be surprised
if any of us who are commenting on this article will live to see the day when
BYU football gives up it's independent status. I think that with time, a
scheduling relationship with Army, Navy, Notre Dame, USU, Hawaii, and others
that will accomadate Oct - Nov games will fall in place. Other than that, I
really don't think that playing the Okie States, TTU, Iowa State's, Kansas,
Kansas States, and Baylors of the world is as appealing as playing teams from
all over the country in all of the BCS conferences with a little help from ESPN.
There really are only 2 big games in the Big 12 every year, Texas and OU, and
depending on if your in the N or S division, it is no guarantee that you would
get one or both of those games in any given year, although if you were to win
your division you would certainly get one or the other of them in the conference
PSUYB: "I know Utah likes to think they are in the dominant position. But
in reality, all Utah receives from their move to the PAC is a large wad of
money. They continue to be dependent on better Programs. Exposure is unknown and
thus far, unimpressive with only 1 Nat'l televised game in 2011, while BYU has
7-8. And Utah still is unable to pull in top recruits."Maybe
you haven't heard, but PAC-12 TV contract goes in effect next year (Utah wasn't
supposed to join until then) and starting then, EVERY Utah game will be on TV:
ESPN/ABC/Fox or Pac-12 Network, which will be superior/more recognizable/easier
to find/always in HD in comparison to BYUtv. You are correct about the large
wad of money, to the tune of $30M in TV alone, then there's the bowl money with
guaranteed BCS revenue every year, etc.Seriously, Indy is looking
better than MWC for BYU, but PLEASE stop trying to lie to yourselves that it's
better than BCS conference and especially PAC-12.
"Scheduled games with Nebraska"?BYU is not on the Husker
schedule through 2017."Scheduling is not a problem"?UCFUtah StateSan Jose StateIdaho StateIdahoNew Mexico StateAs long as you scheule teams like that you will be
subjected to the "Boise State rule". You will have to go undefeated
to play in a BCS game.
PART 2:WhatsInItForMe: "BCS membership, IF you're NEVER good enough
to get a BCS bowl, means you'll average about $1.75 million per year from shared
revenue."If you count only one BCS game per year. Consider
that multiple BCS conferences get 2 teams in the big money games along with the
other 2nd tier bowl games conference members play in and share the wealth. The
bowl money split per team is much higher than BYU can muster. Sure, you don't
share your bowl money, but nobody is sharing with you, either. Net loss.
Please stop trying to argue that Indy > BCS membership. It is CERTAINLY
superior to the MWC for BYU, but if the Big XII comes calling, don't even think
of turning it down, Cougs. The TV money would be much better in Big 12, too.
But hey, you don't have to share as an Indy, right?
Oh man, lots of bad math and delusional fans out there. Some corrections:WhatsInItForMe: "Say BYU gets a BCS bowl once every 6 years (likely
more often, playing the way they are)."LIKELY more often?
Considering they have 0 BCS appearances in 12 years, I'm not sure what gives the
impression there are any to come, much less every 6 years or less. Isn't the
schedule supposed to be harder? And that helps going undefeated? What about
going 6-6 last year with an easier SOS leads us to believe BCS is near?
The Y is in a great position to make Independence work. I really don't think
the state of Utah needs to project the idea that the Y is just waiting for a
conference to call. If/When the Y gets invited to a conference, then we have
something to discuss.There aren't a lot of people/writers associated
with the Big East or the Big 12 or the PAC-12 schools that are saying their
leagues need to invite the Y. So essentially, the state of Utah is pretending
there's tons of interest, when there just isn't.I've enjoyed the U
articles about the PAC-12 football programs. Could we get more substantial Y
articles with focus on their scheduling, profiles of upcoming football
opponents, history of successful independent teams (Notre Dame), and maybe even
delve into WCC, WCC history, and how WCC has compared nationwide to other
@ Papa SmurfAQ status, relates to the "Conference". Not
individual teams.Utah has no gaurantee of ever qualifying as a team again,
in fact it's very unlikely.There is a pecking order even in
Conferences. BYU is a Top 30 Overall Athletic Program. They compete Nationally
in most sports. Were Top 25 in 9 sports last year. Won 9 Conference
championships, Utah only 1.BYU is indeed Independent. They do not
have to rely on and ride others Coat-Tails.The Pac 10.2 has many
Elite programs. USC, UCLA, Stanford, Washington, ASU, Arizona.Utah
is not one of them. They will be a perpetual doormat. Every conference has and
indeed needs them.The Big East has Rutgers, The ACC Duke (football),
Wake Forrest, the Big Ten has Northwestern, Indiana, The Big 12 has Baylor, Iowa
St., The SEC has their Vanderbilts and the Pac 10 little 2 has Wazzu and
Utah.This was illustrated and played out as predicted when the
Executive's of ESPN passed on granting Utah or Wazzu any National Game slots.Money is nice, so enjoy the spoils Utah, however, BYU is a National
Brand which Utah is not.ask ESPN
WhatsInItForMe,I have one problem with your speculation. On what do
you base your assertion that BYU will likely go to a BCS bowl game 1 in 6
seasons? You say it is based on how they have played lately, but last season
they were 7-6. On top of that, they have yet to play in a BCS bowl game. The
closest they came was the Cotton Bowl under Gary Crowton. I don't see where you
are coming up with your position on this, other than simply your own
expectations as an optimistic fan.
Skippy | 10:58 a.m. May 27, 2011 West Jordan, UT A few days ago the
D-news had a link posted that quoted a Big East spokesperson saying an
invitation to BYU had not been issued and they were not ever considered. I can't
find that link but a Byu guy comminted on it. ===Let me know
what you turn up, because I do not believe that it exists.I believe
it was a Ute Fan that said it was discussed on a local radio station, and said
it could be found at ESPN under Big East, but no one ever could provide it,
probably because it does not exist. The Ute Fan later apologized for passing on
bad info.That's where I suggest you look.Also, there is
a gag order preventing anyone from the Big East discussing expansion.
Hey, let's all go over and comment on the article about the utes causing quite a
stir in the PAC12!Oh wait, there isn't one?
Definition of CACHET1a : a seal used especially as a mark of official
approval b : an indication of approval carrying great prestige 2a : a
characteristic feature or quality conferring prestige(See BYU)
Papa Smurf UTE | 11:04 a.m. May 27, 2011Herriman, UTBluecougActually I think it is more like this:UTAH = AQ StatusByu = Irrelevent -------------------------------I love when
the "relevance" card is played by some of the Utah fans posting on BYU
articles. By the way, aren't smurf's blue?
I suppose it would be fun to entertain an offer, but when it really comes down
to it, in my heart of hearts, I want to remain independent. Rise and shout!
"So Rock, what your saying is that it's interesting the BYU fans keep
mentioning it? LOL!"Actually, if you ventured away from DNews
BYU articles and looked at other newspapers/blogs (such as NCAA BBS), you would
see that BYU fans are probably the minority of those talking about a BYU
invitation. On ESPN, the Big 12 asked about what teams to add if they expanded,
and BYU's name came up quite often (check the mailbag).About the Big
East rumor, it has neither been confirmed or denied. So we don't know if it's
true or not. Some people say it's false, but only those involved in the alleged
talks would really know. However, one would think that it would be denied if it
The word everyone is misusing is "cachet", not "cache".
*sigh*This should be easy for you Utah folk, there is a "Cache
Valley" in Utah, it is pronounced "Cash Valley", not
"Cash-ay Valley". At least, I hope...
Thank you Brad for well written article - did you learn something from Lee
Benson? I voted Big 12 would call but when, 10 years later or never. Big 12
should changed to B10 and Big 10 should be now Big 12 or Bigger 12, oh wait how
about BIGGER 16. Independent is where BYU belongs for now.
In my opinion, the benefits of Independence far outweigh joining a conference.
Independence=FreedomThe possibilities and potential of Independence
are virtually endless.Benefits of Independence:-Every
single game on National TV. ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, BYUtv--available in 100million+
homes-Scheduling games with storied programs all over the nation.-Recruiting of LDS/Christian athletes from all over the nation-No sharing in revenue or bowl payouts-No dependence on bigger or
better programs to pass down the crumbs.-Games available
internationally via web-streaming. -Independent Contracts with TV
networks and opponents. -8yr contract with ESPN/ 6yr with Notre Dame-Potential to Increase National Brand and prestige exponentially. Not
banished to regional exposure.The list goes on and on.I
know Utah likes to think they are in the dominant position. But in reality, all
Utah receives from their move to the PAC is a large wad of money. They continue
to be dependent on better Programs. Exposure is unknown and thus far,
unimpressive with only 1 Nat'l televised game in 2011, while BYU has 7-8. And
Utah still is unable to pull in top recruits.Heres to the coming
season! Heres to Independence
BluecougActually I think it is more like this:UTAH = AQ
StatusByu = Irrelevent
hedgehog"What would be somewhat interesting is if someone
(anyone) not directly associated to the y had something to say. Again, the y can
create all the rumors they want but delusion will only get you so far."Weren't you the one citing Chip Brown as a valid source of information
regarding a potential BYU invite to the Big 12? And, wasn't Chip Brown the
principle source of "rumors" regarding the PAC 16 merger of the PAC 10
and Big 12 South?Since the PAC 16 merger never happened, was all of
the hysteria about the Big 12 disintegrating just rumor?Chip Brown
was doing exactly the same thing Deep Shades of Blue was doing, reporting on
inside information gleaned from reliable sources that was not being announced
A few days ago the D-news had a link posted that quoted a Big East spokesperson
saying an invitation to BYU had not been issued and they were not ever
considered. I can't find that link but a Byu guy comminted on it. Does anyone
remember this or know where that link is. I think it was from some guy on ESPN,
but I am not sure.It doesn't matter to me if BYU stays or goes, but it
would be nice for Brad to read the articles in his own paper before writing a
story like this.
Last I looked, how many national championships does Utah have in football? Oh
WhatsInItForMe,You said: Say BYU gets a BCS bowl once every 6 years
(likely more often, playing the way they are). The BCS has been
around now for what, 13 years, since 1998, and they have yet to play in a BCS
game? How can you say that BYU will even have a chance to get there once every 6
years, also playing the way they are. Have they been playing great? No! They
have been playing good as of late, (except for last year) but nothing that they
have done leads me to believe they will play in a BCS game any time soon, let
alone once in the next 6 years. Could the Y catch lightening in a bottle and go
to a BCS games? Sure. They will have to go undefeated, and since that in the
modern era that has only happened once 27 years ago, I would be willing to bet
the house, farm, whatever that it is not going to happen in the next 6 years, or
once every 6 years. Going undefeated is hard, & with no BCS guarantees in
place, undefeated is the only way to get there.
@ Bluto If they do join a Conference, they will receive a Texas
type deal.*******************Actually I agree with you on this
point. But this is also why they will never be invited to a BCS
conference. BYU simply does not bring enough clout to warrant a
Texas type deal from any BCS conference. As for BYU surviving
on its own name and cache We shall see
moderateAbout 6 weeks ago "The Big 12 Conference and Fox Sports
Media Group have reached a 13-year agreement for exclusive cable rights to 40
football games per season". The new contract takes effect in 2012.--------------------You obviously don't understand the television
rights landscape.For those unwilling to read past the big numbers,
that $3 billion television deal for the PAC 12 is for first and second-tier
rights, shared between Fox and ESPN for every football game and likely every
conference basketball game.The Big 12's recent contract is only for
second-tier television rights. "We have another bite at the apple with our
primary rights," says Kevin Sweeney, the Big 12's lawyer.See
"Did the Pac-12 upstage the Big 12's TV deal?" By David Ubben on ESPN.
I love that byu's name keeps "coming up" with BCS conference
expansion. It's too bad that the only people that are mentioning byu is byu
fans. Keep holding onto the thought that every BCS conference wants byu if it
makes you feel better.I love the guy who has averaged byu going to a
BCS bowl every 6 years - that's classic. How many have they been to so far?
It's not going to change because you are now independent. Sorry to burst the
blue bubble you are all living in.
Can I just quickly point out the different between Cache, and Cachet?===Definition of CACHE1a : a hiding place especially for
concealing and preserving provisions or implements b : a secure place of
storage 2: something hidden or stored in a cache ----------------cachet n.1. A mark or quality, as of distinction,
individuality, or authenticity: ===Post away.
I thought we didn't need a conference because independance is so great. But now
everyone is speculating about joing one.
Honestly, I think there are very few benefits in BYU joining an AQ BCS
conference.The only two perks of being in a conference is money (which BYU
has plenty of) and scheduling (which is rapidly improving after only 10 months
of Independence). BCS conference affiliation does not guarantee
exposure (See Utah's 1 and only scheduled game on Nat'l TV in 2011)Does not guarantee a shot for a National Championship (Ohio St, Miami, Texas,
Alabama, Florida, USC, OU, LSU, Auburn, and Oregon are the only teams to play in
BCS championship) That is 10 out of 67 BCS teams.If the BCS
survives, it will likely not exist in its current form 2-3 yrs from now. And
BYU will be in an excellent position as an Independent should a play-off system
emerge. That being said, even if a BCS invite came, I believe BYU
should and will decline.I am proud that BYU does not fit in with any major
conference, but this is simply because it is not meant to. BYU's purpose is to
stand out, to be unique. The culture at BYU is not seen anywhere else in College
Rock: "Since no mainstream news organization that I saw picked
up the story, I'm not saying it's necessarily true. Still, it's interesting
BYU's name keeps coming up."So Rock, what your saying is that
it's interesting the BYU fans keep mentioning it? LOL!What would be
somewhat interesting is if someone (anyone) not directly associated to the y had
something to say. Again, the y can create all the rumors they want but delusion
will only get you so far.
@HowardBYU will never join a Conference and relinquish it's Brand.
Been there and done that. They left millions on the table over the last 25
years, they won't do it again.If they do join a Conference, they
will receive a Texas type deal. They won't completely give up their Brand ever
again.Which is why many think Independence is the way to stay. Watch
for other teams doing the same or at a minimum restructuring as Texas has
done.BYU can survive on it's Name and Cache, Utah needs and depends
upon a Conference dynamic, their Brand is Non-Existant tnad they need the
Coat-Tails of others to survive.If you stop wishing for BYU's demise
your ulcers may clear up.
@ HedgehogIn your dreams, in your wildest dreams.ESPN's
BYU contract dispels every one of your postulations.BYU has Cache,
and Brand.It's BYU with 7 National ESPN games hedgie.NOT
Utah.When the Executives of the Networks divied up the games from
the Pac 10.2, it became immensely clear to all, that a Utah Brand is
Non-Existant which is why along with Wazzu did not revceive one National Network
Game.Money and 6 good years can never trump a Legacy program like
BYU, which has built it's Brand over 40 eyars.Enjoy the money,
you'll always be lookin up at BYU.Actions by ESPN, speak louder than
words. We've jsut seen ESPN's actions regarding BYU and Utah.
How about this for the beginning of a new conference. I would either call it
"God & Country" or "Church & State."Notre DameBYUTCUSMUArmyNavyAir ForceJust a thought. Let me know what you think and what other universities
if any fit the profile.
Take a Big 12 invite. Spurn a Big East invite. Independence will outlast the
current BCS bowl alignment anyway. That thing changes toward more
access every year as the country realizes small teams can make big noise and are
as much fun to watch (David vs. Goliath) and in their own way as intriguing as
the NC title game. Winning access is more gratifying than being given it on a
silver platter anyway, bringing far more interesting match-ups through the
regular season than a lackluster conference like the Big East would give year in
and year out. If you can't beat em join em, but I'm not convinced BYU can't beat
em (that includes a stupid BCS system that needs to go or get changed).
@ Patriot"Not enough money in it" (the independent
route)You really need to research this before you post a comment.
BYU's deal with ESPN is reportedly between 9-14 million per year and could go
higher if their are more neutral site games played in NFL Stadiums on the
schedule. Plus the games BYU don't play on ESPN will be aired on BYU TV and BYU
will be able to sale commercial air time to advertisers. BYU was only
making 1.3 million per year from the contract with the Mountain TV network. More
Money, More Exposure and More Quality games in the future.
Utah joining PAC = running off on her old husband to marry a richer manvs.BYU independent = becoming the bread-winner of the family and
can provide for everything on its own
I hate these speculative articles without an ounce of current factual
information. I guess I read it anyway, and that's all that matters to the DN.
There isn't any news here until BYU actually receives an invitation to join a
conference. Let it go!
Utah joining PAC = marrying wellvs.Byu independent =
always the bridesmaid never the bride (but has a sweet spirit)
I think the sunday play issue is poison for most conference so they will never
invite the Y to join. Sunday play is growing in the NCAA and I don't think a
conference wants to deal with special accommodations for one of its members.
Also I don't think the independent route is going to work for the Y over the
long run.. not enough money in it and BYU is NOT Notre Dame.
Bottomline is, BYU will eventually be invited to a AQ conference sooner or
later, and the conference who invites them will look like a genius in the sports
media community's eyes, BYU is an instant money maker for the conference and
will only beef-up the conference's strength. I think the Big 12 or the Big East
are more tolerant of the religious affiliation BYU has with the LDS Church and
will try to make the No Sunday Play work.
BYU is not going to get an invite to the Big 12 or any other BCS conference.If The Big 12, or the PAC 12 thought there was money to be made with the
BYU cachet, mystic, world-wide fan base, or whatever you want to call it they
would have been invited when they restructured last summer. The fact is that any advantage that BYU would bring to a BCS conference is far
outweighed by their idiosyncrasies.But, even if a miracle invite to
the Big 12 were to occur, Texas would become BYUs master just as they are master
to every other team in the Big 12.Given their desperate craving for
attention (they call it exposure) and their incessant desire to be the main
attraction, such servitude to Texas would be a nightmare to the BYU
administration and fan base.BYU has alternatives, but they are
limited to independence, or being the top dog in some restructured MWC/WAC
remake. Aside from that, BYU is going nowhere.
Independence is by far greater than a conference when we have a packed schedule
on the road and home and a winning season against other ranked teams.On
the other hand....if we lose?
@Hedgehog"No BCS conference has or ever will invite
BYU".The Big-12 already did in the 90's, Gov. Jane Richards
nixed the BYU deal, for her school... BaylorThere have been feelers
and conversations with Big East reps recently, however, BYU made it clear
they're going the Independent route for now.Formal Invitation? Feelers, Conversations? Absolutely. And what will it do to
you Hedgehog, when an invitation comes.Will you become un-hinged as
you did when the ESPN Exposure and millions cameBYU's way? Will you disappear for awhile as you did when your Jimmer postulations all
proved to be false?Credibility is a big deal, Hedgie, your track
record leaves your wanting.BYU has a Brand, Legacy and Cache....Ask
ESPN.While Utah can't impress the Networks enough to give them a
National Network game.BYU game does not count, that is another ride
on BYU's coat-tails.
If you think that college football is not about money, you are deluded. Sure,
the move to independence is couched in terms of "exposure" as if the
motivating force is just spreading mormonism. The fact is that greater exposure
means more money. More money means better facilities and a greater pull in
recruiting, which in turns improves the chances of success of the program.
Greater notoriety in sports also helps in regular enrollments, and is all around
great for the university. Seriously though, does anyone really
think that BYU would have less exposure in an AQ conference than as an
independent? The only difference I can see is that independence is a riskier
move, albeit with a higher possible reward. I like the new independence
direction, but I think being in an AQ conference would get BYU more exposure
than independence and would be a more secure long term move for the program.
BYU fans, don't be too anxious to jump to the Big 12. They will go from having
a big say to having very little say. Texas runs that conference and they do
whatever Texas wants. If you don't believe me, ask Nebraska. Unlike Oklahoma,
NU was not willing to be Texas lap dog and do whatever they say. I hope BYU
stays Independent for at least 3-4 years or until they put together the four 16
team super conferences, have a 8 team playoff and settle all this conference
jumping. Bottom line, you may think the grass is greener in the
Big12 but I promise you, it will not be as green as you think.
As long as BYU's schedule is loaded with wins over mid-majors like Utah, BYU
will never be invited to a BCS conference.
If exposure was about spreading the restored Gospel than some players should go
to the MTC before they speak to the media.
Another story about BYU football and how that should drive every other sport on
campus. If I was on one of those other teams this story would be another jolt
of reality that non football sports just don't count when decisions are made.
Re: Hank PymNebraska and Colorado were not kicked out of the Big 12.
Both left on their own accord for greener pastures. Why would BYU not fly 2.5
hours to be included and improve their competition? Big 12 will need 2 more
teams to have a championship. BYU makes sense.
There is no Sunday issue for football and only pre-season basketball for some
conferences with TV deals. This is a simple and easy fix for all conferences.
The Sunday play comes with the other sports. However, since it is all about
money, we can stay with the WCC for other sports and no conference will complain
to get BYU football and possible basketball.
BYU will never see an invite to the Big 12!!! But it's ok Cougar fans can dream!
Sometimes everyone misses the point of why BYU went independent, the Church
(Brethren) want more exsposure for the purpose of spreading the message of the
restored gospel. It's not about football as much as it is about hoping the
message of the restored gospel can get into the homes & lives of as many
people as possible. Exsposure will increase that possibility and that is what is
most important. Football / sports is the medium. The fact alot of money can and
will be made is all part of the deal and is very good but not the most important
thing. Those who don't see the importance of this, and only see things from the
football perspective miss the bigger picture. So what ever will be most
benificial in trying to get the message of the restored gospel into more homes,
by getting BYU more exposure via football/ basketball or what ever will
determine whether BYU stays independent or decides to affiliate with a
conference. The most important thing isn't getting into a BCS game or the money,
My sense is that Bronco likes the independence tack and thinks that it is,
"for the greater good." He has articulated many positives and I think
he is sincere about them. He is not just biding his time until a new conference
affiliation can be secured. He isn't the ultimate decision maker but his opinion
counts. Let the independence experiment play out! Patience, Cougars.
No one really knows how well independance will work for BYU. I think it makes
sense in a lot of ways and I believe it will work. On the other hand, if it
does not work, I doubt that BYU will have trouble finding a conference home.
What about a new conference with BYU, Notre Dame, and Texas as the cornerstones?
Possible additions could come from elsewhere including outside the USA. The
big thing is to never again become locked into a TV deal as they were in the
past. The PAC 12 does not want the Cougars because of the Church influence. I
am not sure that others will feel quite so strong on this issue. Still for the
next few years, I'd like to see us give independance a good try. My main
concern is finding a good home for the non-football sports. I am hoping that
somewhere down the line these sports can move back to the MWC or to the Big 12.
@ hedgehogHere the difference:BYU = independentvs.utah = dependent
Let me just tell you what BYU started with and why this was/is a very good move.
BYU meant it when they said that they weren't using the WCC as a stepping
stone. They are loyal to the WCC and will stay with them for basketball and any
other sport they carry...when...not if...but WHEN the Big 12 comes calling, they
will immediately leave independence for the big 12 with football plus any other
sport that the WCC did not carry. And to make it even better, they are going to
add back sports like wrestling plus make rugby a scholarship sport. Awesome
Man, thank goodness the world didn't end last week, so we can re-hash this dead
horse. BYU is in the Cat birds seat right now and will have other opportunities
for big dollar pay days. It could be through joining a A.Q., BCS conference or
through more $'s from ESPN or through Huge advertising dollars on thier own
Network that broadcasts worldwide. All of this hindges on one thing...WINNING.
If the Cougars keep winning they will have greater access. The Utes are also in
a great situation. There is enough of the PIE to go around. The State of
college football in the state of Utah (at least from SLC to Prove) is in good
shape. We should all be thankfull that we have what we have.
Here's what independence has brought to BYU, in less than one year. Scheduled
games with Notre Dame, Texas, TCU, Ohio State, Nebraska, West Virginia, TCU,
Arizona State, and TCU - in stadiums like Mile High, Cowboy Stadium, FedEx,
Meadowlands. Negotiations in place with USC, UCLA. TV revenue in excess of
$10M. Multiple games on ESPN, ESPN2 and BYUtv (which is in far more households
than The MTN).We don't need to discuss whether or not Independence
is better than the Big 12 or PAC12. That's not an option. Holmoe and others
will make that decision if and when the offer comes. I ask you, is
independence better than the MWC? 100 times better!
Yes, the y will be playing in a BCS bowl at least every 6 years just like it has
in the past . . . Yes, the y will be fighting off offers from the
Big 12 just like it has in the past . . . Yes, the y will be the
dominate force in college football West of the Mississippi just like it has in
the past . . . Keep dreaming coug fans. Don't let reality phase
Those who say scheduling is an issue for BYU as an independent haven't been
keeping up. BYU's been turning down good BCS opponents because they're getting
too many per year wanting to play BYU.Even October and November
won't be an issue. Remember, you have around 70 BCS football teams to choose
from every year, and most have byes already scheduled in those two months and
would LOVE to be on national TV.BYU won't have any problems
scheduling good teams in those months, as well as easy teams, which they'll need
to balance out the schedule.BYU will always have enough BCS-quality
teams in Oct-Nov each year to keep themselves relevant should their record be
such to get them BCS bowl consideration.It's GREAT to be
I like where BYU is at right now. They are scheduling big names, and the
schedule will only get tougher until it is basically a BCS schedule or touhger
(playing the tough teams from different conferences rather than all the teams,
tough or not, in one conference). They get to go all over, and get all revenue
to themselves. The living is great.The Big 12 does want BYU,
though. An invite would force BYU to choose between two good things, and I
would personally say to turn it down (but hopefully the door stays open in case
BYU changes its mind in about 5 or 10 years).
Brad Rock is spot on with this article, actually it makes too much sense. BYU
has a long standing tradition in Football, a nationwide fanbase and with the
capabilities they now have with their new TV network, it makes them a very
attractive option for BCS conferences looking to expand. I suspect that within 3
to 5 years, The Big East and Big 12 will both look BYU's way and BYU will opted
for the Big 12 as it seems like a more natural fit. As for now the right move
was to go independent to allow more national exposure, the freedom to schedule
more bcs conference schools and of course to make more money.
Only Utah homers like hedgie come on here to try to pretend BYU won't get the
invite. Brad Rock is spot on. Sorry hedgie. BYU brings more fans, money, and
clout than Utah to a conference. Congratulations on the PAC 10 invite.
Politics and obviously religion came into play for BYU not to be invited.The Big 12 will be inviting BYU when they expand back to 12. BYU will
then be in a better football conference than Utah. Not that that matters, but
that's what'll happen. Just a matter of when the Big 12 goes back to 12. Many
have assumed 2-3 years when the TV contract is redone.In the
meantime, BYU is doing EXACTLY what it should. Playing the big boys on the big
stage and making a ton of money doing it. And they're still winning the
recruiting battle in-state. ..world keeps on turnin'...
RE: flynn"been speculated that the big 12 is planning on waiting for
its current TV contracts to expire"That would be in the year
2025.About 6 weeks ago "The Big 12 Conference and Fox Sports
Media Group have reached a 13-year agreement for exclusive cable rights to 40
football games per season". The new contract takes effect in 2012.
Thanks Brad, finally someone puts into words what most of us have been
thinking. Just look at the pull that the Y has. I know that Tom H. is simply
waiting until the right offer comes to the table. Until then, simply use the
backing of a University supported by alumni all over the world. It is still
better than the MWC. Let the cute new freshmen get asked to the dance first. It
won't be until the dance starts that the guy who asked her realizes that all he
got was fluff with no substance. Then, I guarantee that he will ask a person
with a proven track record to the next dance and forget all about the freshman
who bring nothing to the table, except the thought of a free meal.
re: KamUte | 7:30 p.m. May 26, 2011 Simple Geography dictates
otherwise. If Texas & lackeys kicked out the Huskers & Buffs then why
would they invite a school FURTHER AWAY?
Berry Tramel (Oklahoma sports columnist) blogged about getting BYU last fall-
before its too late. The vast majority of the posters were in favor of adding
BYU. Several big 12 boards have discussed adding BYU, and most everyone is in
favor. Nebraska just got kicked out of the AAU- possibly from joining the Big
10, and some speculate that they will return to the big 12. It has been
speculated that the big 12 is planning on waiting for its current TV contracts
to expire, then re-negotiate with BYU and someone else as members. I kind of like that BYU can tell its recruit that they will play all over the
country, from Hawaii to DC. They'll get to play in NFL stadiums on primetime
tv. It would be much more difficult for BYU to play all over, and with
whomever, with a conference affiliation, but with a conference they'll get much
better opponents at home. Pick which is most important.
All you prognosticator and arm chair QB's and know it alls just make me sit back
and laugh. You are absolutely hysterical.
"...So how is being in a conference any help..."?Scheduling.
I recently watched an OSU-Baylor baseball game... on Sunday. BYU won't be
joining the Big 12. Why would a major conference go to special scheduling for
one team? And there is no advantage to have BYU join the Big 12 "football
only". The league often has four or more teams ranked in the top 25.BYU would add value to the Big East, which is shy on football talent.
With the prejudice many people have, BYU joining any conference would be tough.
I'd love to see them in Big 12 someday. I love seeing Texas, Oklahoma, OSU,
Missouri, Kansas State, TTU.
hedgehog | 8:26 p.m. Ann Arbor, MI "This is all fine and
dandy...but here is the vexing issue.No BCS conference has or ever
will invite BYU.BYU fans seem to brush this little "issue"
under the carpet but without any interest...there are no option." ===The reality is that if the PAC will invite Utah with their less
than stellar "athletic prowess", there is probably a fit for BYU
somewhere. Will anyone argue that Utah has more "cachet", or tradition
than BYU?Reality is, that BYU does not need a conference. BYU alum
in Wisconsin do not need BYU in the PAC-12.They need and want BYU
able to play Wisconsin, the same way alums in Texas want BYU playing in Texas,
and all alums want them on national TV.The ONLY reason for BYU to
join an AQ conference at this point is to get AQ status.Does BYU
need that?Hedge, there are "options". Does BYU really need
AQ status as much as Utah? How many year of PAC money will it take Utah to even
catch up with BYU?I like where both schools are. Let's see how it
rolls from here.
BYU is doing exactly what they need to do. Conferences are desperate and
confused. Look at the BIG 12, look at the PaC 12 and the failed coup they
experienced. The only real steady conf. is the SEC. Stay tuned...I say BYU in
the BIG 12 in the near future
Part TWOTherefore (assuming splits here for participators vs
conference buddies, as I don't know the actuals),a. BCS membership,
IF you're NEVER good enough to get a BCS bowl, means you'll average about $1.75
million per year from shared revenue.b. BCS membership, IF you ARE
good enough to make a BCS bowl every 6 years, means you'll average about $2.75
million per year from your participation take and shared revenue.c.
BYU, getting a BCS bowl only once every 6 years, will average $3 million per
year--NO sharing!So, how is being in a conference any help? I don't
see it.If BYU gets a BCS bowl every 4 years, it's way ahead of the
game NOT being in a conference ($4.5 million/yr unshared).Even
though I don't know the actual values and splits, I'm betting I'm not far off on
this BCS vs non-BCS conference affiliation comparison for BYU.I hope
they NEVER join a BCS conference. They'll make more headlines and waves being
independent.Their success might even make Texas and a few others
seriously consider independence.
Part ONEThe people who say BYU needs to be in a conference to have a
legitimate chance at a BCS bowl aren't paying attention.VERY FEW BCS
teams make to to BCS bowls with any regularity. AND, they share their winnings
with their whole conference.BCS conferences have plenty of eternal
cellar-dwellers who don't get to BCS bowls.So, let's do the math:1. Say a BCS bowl pays out $18 million (for sake of easy figuring).2. Say a BCS conference has 12 teams (most currently do).3.
Say each BCS conference averages 1.5 teams per year in a BCS bowl. (There are 6
conferences with about 8 slots for BCS teams, assuming non-AQs get 2 of the 10
[includes ND, since they don't have to share revenue].)4. Say BYU
gets a BCS bowl once every 6 years (likely more often, playing the way they
This is all fine and dandy...but here is the vexing issue.No BCS
conference has or ever will invite BYU.BYU fans seem to brush this
little "issue" under the carpet but without any interest...there are
Right now I don't think they "need" a conference. In a few more years
they might, but then they might not, too. What do you suppose happens to the
MWC if Air Force decides to follow the examples of the other service acadamies
because they want more competion than BSU? TCU was right in that after BYU and
Utah left the MWC is wan't any longer the same conference. Now maybe San Diego
State can will a football title or Wyoming can find some success. I don't think
New Mexico will do anything in Football; maybe basketball. The point is, MWC
schools do ok every so often in one sport, but none have dominated the
conference in as many sports year-in-and-year-out as BYU. That's why the entire
conference took private delight in seeing them leave and failed to be gracious
in the least, including the mighty MWC Commissioner's Office, when it happened.
BYU saw that they weren't appreciated for the great strength they provided all
those years and decided independence was the better option for right now. I
applaud them for their action in that regard.
There are three things I want everyone to know about Cougar fans. We are not
holier than thou. We are not delusional. We are not obsessed with the Utes!
Very good article, with a lot of valid points.
Anyone else ready for the season to start so we can stop w/ these types of
Everyone believes BYU will end up with the big 12 one day soon. There will be
conference realignment in a few years. It will happen.