Trade Harris and someone...for Kirk Hinrich and Jamal Crawford...we still could
have at best a top 8 on next year's draft...its the golden state pick from NJ
protected at 7th...so the next 2-3 years would be solid for us...
@ CJ Miles...It's hard to believe after 6 years in the league that
C.J. hasn't had consistent coaching. His inconsistency in his play is a direct
result of his poor work ethic. His innate talent is there, but what's in his
chest (proper killer attitude), is what holds him back.C.J. is
basketball smart. You only have to listen to his post game comments to see that.
He's usually spot on. But, he just doesn't seem to have the inner push to become
as good as he's capable of. THAT's my problem with him.And, likely
the Jazz brass' problem, if they don't bring him back.@
BillM75...You're correct that D-Will wasn't a leader. Just a
superstar. Not all superstars are leaders, but most are. The Jazz desperately
need a superstar that IS a leader. Jimmer might fit that bill.@
Bugoff...Spot on about Harris/Iverson comparison. That's why we need
Jimmer! Also, the -8.3 on Watson suprised me. Was that more a result of his
being the starter so many games? He always seem to help the team as a backup.
@King Blackits because CJ Miles the poster is in denial...:D
I have two words about Harris. Allen Iverson. KOC and Corbin should
take note and make the comparison. Harris is a volume shooter with
low assists. His style does not FIT the Jazz. He is like Riley Nelson running
the BYU offense. Both Nelson and Harris are good athletes. They have talent. BUT
their style does not fit the strengths of their team mates, the design of the
offense nor the team culture. If they maximize their individual strengths it
does not make their team mates better and does not maximize the teams output in
the long run. Harris CAN do like Rondo and prune poor shots and
improve his assists. But after 8 years, will he? Corbin has already
adjusted the flex for AJ to some extent. He will more for Harris but the PG
position is the most important one in the flex. The first draft
priority may be a PG followed by SG. The front line of AJ/Favors/AK
is excellent (assuming AK is still here). Millsap can back up. Hayward at SG. CJ
can back up SG/SF. That is a decent team IF they play efficiently.
Harris determines the efficiency of the team.
To make things more clear. Opponents PER and to some extent Net PER are
understating Millsaps ability to make opponents inefficient. Net PER is also not
capturing Millsap's shooting efficiency. He is getting hit on both ends and
thus looks worse (stat wise) than he really is. A more comprehensive
look is needed at his total defensive effort and in the case of NET PER his
total offensive and defensive effort. WP48 does not capture defense
particularly well but Millsap is one of the 3 leaders on the team by that
metric. But adjusted for position both he and AJ are low for their positions.
AK is the best all around contributor by adjusted WP48. DWill and
Boozer were better than AK and they are both gone. They were replaced by less
talent (as measured by WP48) and that is one reason the Jazz are bad this year.
The franchise had stability as long as it had talent. Take away the
talent (especially the efficiency) and you get a LOSER. It will stay
this way until the Team WP48 increases back to contender level. That
comes from improving the efficiency of current players or getting better
CAP L Locke is focused on defense and uses opponents Per. That is one camera
angle of D. However, PER rewards volume shooting and does not penalize
inefficient shooting. If Millsap (or any other defender) is making the opponent
inefficient then he is doing a good job defensively. Fes's Defense is probably
understated by opponents Per. If Fes would develop a couple more offensive
moves and improve his FTs he would be valuable and probably start on some
team.Millsap's D may be better than the PER stat quoted by Locke
suggests. +/- is notoriously erratic but we tend to use it in
arguments when it fits our perceptions or biases. I do not get to excited about
+/- but tend to use it as a visual aid to confirm what is observed.I
do not have the time to dig thru Millsap's total defensive stats right now but
that would pin point the weaknesses in his D. His NET PER suggests he needs to
improve his game but PER is not rewarding his offensive efficiency and not
totally accurate.The Defensive rating system Sloan put in was pretty
good. I hope they are still using it.
I have been eating drinking and sleeping Jazz Basketball since they came to
Utah. Fortunately for me the only stat that really matters is the final score.
After all you when it gets right down to it all professional basketball is is
grown men, being paid obscene amounts of money to run up and down a hard wood
floor in short pants trying to put a leather ball into a metal hoop 10 feet off
the floor AND I love it! So I enjoy the wins and suffer through the loses.
However, I do know something about leadership and it is quite simple. You don't
walk into a room and say you are the leader. Leadership requires a self
discovery and then a self determination to be the leader. You either got it or
you ain't and right now the Jazz ain't got it. If that leader is on the team, or
will ever be discovered is still in question. Until then Ty Corbin better get
used to not only being a coach but being the leader.
@ CJ MilesWhy is that you say Sloan never played CJ or never gave
him a chance or never tried to develop him or never gave him advice when just a
couple of weeks ago when CJ had his 40 pt game.. and CJ said this himself.. he
said: "Sloan tried to drill it in my head to take it to the hole to play
more aggressive play hard D, but I never listened" now thats not what word
for word of what he said but its pretty darn close. Looks to me that CJ has no
excuse but I wish they keep him. O and for more advice once again Sloan started
CJ is second season for a couple of games but then CJ Miles got his starting
position taken later by a rookie named Ronnie Brewer this happened plenty of
times with miles he Starts but then looses his starting role due to
inconsistency and not listening to coach.
The comments are often as interesting as the article. Jimmer is an excellent
shooter and passer and a masterful ball handler. In the NBA, he can't be
touched outside, and he will simply kill the opposition and demand double teams,
and then somebody will be open. And NBA players are very good at hitting the
open shot, so I would love to see Jimmer in a Jazz uniform. He is exactly at
the average height of starting point guards at 6'2" and he is five pounds
heavier than the average at 195#. Jimmer is not a better shot than Stockton,
however. Look up his percentages, and realize that during his prime he was
nearly 50% from the three-point line. When he retired, only one other point
guard who had played 500 games had shot a higher field goal percentage, and that
was Magic. Nash shoots better, however, and I'm guessing a couple of others.
As for the leader of the Jazz, I would like to see a leader who
demanded that Al pass out of the post, that CJ curl well inside the trey line,
and that everybody pass to a more open player.
Without going into a lot of detail on the 82 game stats. AJ has much better
stats at C than at PF. He belongs at C at least with the Jazz. On a Net 48
minute PER AJ is better than Millsap. Millsap is much better at PF
than at SF. He might be able to develop into an SF but I think that is limited.
About 2/3s of Millsap's shots are jumpers. He can match up with Artest type SFs
but Millsap is not an SF. Millsap really needs to come off of the bench behind
Favors or if he will not do that he will need to be traded. Favors
plays PF and C equally well and is much better than AJ (twice the rating) at C.
This is based on limited numbers but Favors is going to be very good at both
positions. This years Jazz just do not have enough offense,
efficiency or D. Last years team would have contended this year as
there is more parity among the top 8 teams. KOC has some more
serious rebuilding to do. If you plan on trading Millsap drafting a big makes
@Cap L I will try to find Locke's stuff but here is what 82 games indicates.
Net production points scored minus points allowedWilliams 7.7AK 6.7Evans 6.2Favors 5.6Weaver 5.0Jefferson 3.4Millsap .8CJ -.7Hayward -4.6Harris
-4.6Bell -6.1Elson -7.4Watson -8.3Fes -8.5Okur -
9.2Price -11.1Cousin -37.1This is for the whole year.
Some players play better in the last couple of months and some played a lot
worse. It does give you an idea of how bad the bench is and also how weak the SG
position is. Fes, Elson and Watson are not offensive players. This
stat confounds offensive capability (or lack) with defensive weakness
(capability) but it does get head to head results. The Jazz need AK
and Harris is a big step down from DWill so far. Where is Weaver now? Bell just
had a bad year and does not fit any more. Look at the top 7 players.
Without Williams and AK, AJ and Favors can not carry this team. Get
some shooting guards!
I see several post that suggest the Jazz pick Burke but I don't like that idea
or see why someone would suggest it. The Jazz have Hayward and CJ and the 2 spot
is their best position, we need a young 3, a future point guard and a defensive
minded center. That is why I have suggested Barnes, PJones, TJones, Vesely and
maybe Leonard. Now Barnes and PJones aren't available so that weakens the pool
but Vesely and TJones and even Leonard would be good picks.Knight, Jimmer
and Walker could be good picks as a point guard, not sure who would be best.Jonas is the only center that fits the bill, rebounder, shot blocker, hustler
etc.Bismark is interesting though, as he is long, athletic, shotblocker,
rebounder, high motor, smart and young.
@CJ Milesonce again you never failed to humor me...the Team Utah
Jazz isnt a one man show...CJ Miles is a replaceable commodity...he was given
consistent 25 mins per game even more i think...but he never took advantage of
it...if he needs 30 mins to play to produce his numbers then that's being
inefficient...he does have some slight value from what he is being
paid...but...he will just be a role player...face it...he wont be an all-star
and he will never be a superstar...he is like Darius Miles come to think of
it...flashing briliance here and there...letting everyone know his
potential...then dropping the next few games with extremely poor shot
selection...though he is still young his option should be taken...at least one
more year to prove himself..
Paul is not the worst defender, by far, but he played the worst defense, by far.
The Jazz really don't have a natural leader on the roster, and I don't even
think DWrist was one either, he's just always been the best player on his teams.
Price isn't a good enough player to lead, Raja is washed up and
Watson is a career backup. Rookies can't lead unless they're Magic or LeBron
level skilled, which Jimmer ain't.CJ is fine value at his contract,
he just needs to shape up and stop shooting 3's.Locke's article on
Jazz defense mentioned above was good, but I believe something is wrong with
Millsap's numbers. All the other Jazz players ranking were close to their +/-
rankings, except Paul. Paul has the 11th best +/- in the league, but he's the
8th worst defender? Impossible.Just from watching the Jazz play, the
idea Paul is a bad defender, let alone the worst on the team is ludicrous.
Doesn't pass the eyeball test.
I get why the Jazz want Harris and Jefferson to take the lead......Booz and
Williams, Stockton and Malone......is history repeating itself or what? Clearly
at times over the last couple of games, Hayward was not only the leader but the
play maker at the end of the game. If your best player is also your leader then
you have something. Hopefully, Favors will grow into that role.....The Jazz need to start thinking outside the box more. CJ the leader?? we don't
even know if he will be on the team next season. CJ is not leadership material!!
Being the most quotable, does not a leader make. Leadership by example and hard
work also works, see Paul Milsap and the rookies....
regardless of what the jazz do in the offseason next year will once again be a
rough one....Hayward and Favors are developing..and they'll have 2 more high
draft picks to add to the mix which means a learning curve for rookies...Harris
is no leader nor a point guard on a serious playoff team...hopefully the Jazz
draft someone that has promise to one day run the point...we are 2 years away
from returning to the playoffs with any kind of serious hope for results
You all make fun of CJ on here just because I back my boy. But if you could all
be honest about his play, he is a steal for what the Jazz pay him. When CJ
scored over 17 points a game, the Jazz rarely lost this year. That tells you
how important he is to the team and winning. No one else has a stat like that
on the team.CJ just needs some consistent coaching and consistent
playing time. If Corbin gets him off the 3 point line and has him moving towards
the basket on screens, he will be very effective. Jerry never understood how to
use CJ. He would just always say, he needs to go to the basket. Well you have
to run plays that allow that Jerry. Instead Jerry told him to stand on the 3
point line and watch Boozer and Dwill do their dance. Hopefully Jerry Jr.
becomes Ty next year and changes things for CJ. If not, don't resign him
because his talent is being wasted just like AK's was his entire career in Utah.
In a couple of years these guys could really be playing well together, the Jazz
have all their pieces, yes, harris, aj, are two veterans the Jazz need to hold
onto. If Corbin wants to play two pgs in the starting unit, i don't see a huge
problem, it seems that is the movement of the future.I don't have a
problem with Harris trying to score the ball, he should focus on dropping dimes
though, i think most people would be happy with him taking advantage of his one
on one skills, if he was at the same time being at least being a competent
capatain out there and making sure first he has a good feeling for the guys and
he's getting them involved, before he feels the need to make something happen
himself. As for Aj, he is one of the best low post players on offense in
the league, he plays center and while his defense amounts to nothing, he's not
much better or worse than any other mediocre center in defense and
transition.In as little as a couple of years we could be making the case
that there areothergreatcentersbesideshoward.
Bugoff: Your a stat man you should look at some interesting stats written by
Locke on the Jazz site, shows Milsap as one of the worst defenders at his
position and CJ and DWill about the same, not actually that bad (refering to
CJ). AK was the 5th best defender in the league. Favors looks real good. Harris
Harris has never had a good FG percentage. He tends to be a volume shooter. For
him to lead the Jazz he needs to improve his assist numbers substantially and
also do like Rondo and improve his shot selection.He could do it but
he has not done it so far in his career. Inefficiency and volume shooting are
exactly what the Jazz do not need and they particularly do not need it at PG.
Harris should run the team better next season as he get to know the players and
the offense better. AJ is one of the best low post players. He is a
rare breed. But he tend to not pass back out when he should (lack of 3 point
shooters). He tends to force the Wheezie and get blocked. Again the Jazz do not
need inefficiency. Nor do they need a one man team. AJ did improve
his game dramatically in the last 20 games of the season. Corbin modified the
offense for him and it helped a lot. The offense tended to flow better and AJ
attacked the basket quickly. I see progress. I suspect Corbin will
adapt the offense to Harris and AJ.
Jimmer could be very good, there is no way he will be as good as Stockton. Even
if he were on the team both Hayward and Favors have better shots at becoming
superstars in my opinion.
Jimmer being compared as better than Stockton? Wow. . . I mean WOW!
Like I said I think Hayward will become a leader on this team but I think CJ
could become a leader if he could become consistent, I don't think he will step
up and try to lead as long as he struggles to be consistent.
CJ being quoted a lot is because he's both willing to talk and more often than
not he hits the nail on the head. If you've paid attention to his comments after
a game and then applied them to that game, he's generally been spot on.Too bad he can't be that consistent on the court, though. He's been on the
team long enough to have finally evolved into a consistent player. I see him
being Hayward's backup as early as next year. Maybe spending a few minutes
spelling the 3, as well, unless Evans suddenly blossoms.I believe
his problem is that everything's come too easy for him. He doesn't really work
hard for it. He's too talented for his own good.Look at CJ's body.
Doesn't look a whole lot different than when he come on board, outside of normal
maturity growth. That indicates a lack of will to get stronger. Again, I bet he
doesn't work all that hard ON HIS OWN.
Did anyone notice that after Dwill left, CJ was quoted more in the papers than
anyone on the team. The press seem to think he is the next leader!!
First of the Dwight Howard suggestion is foolish and has lack of NBA insight...i
mean come on...really?...for the leaders...i cant see harris being a leader...Al
Jeff cant coz he doesnt know how to win yet...if memo hasnt been injury proned
so much...he could've stepped up and lead...he is part of that detroit
championship right?...proven winner...however he isnt vocal...and he doesnt play
D that well...i think Captain L would probably be right...Hayward might step up
and lead...i think he can lead by example...he is a hardworker...plus he isnt a
me first type of player...and always considers the team...as displayed by his
willingness to pass and create for teammates...in time...Hayward could be that
leader...he may not be a superstar...but he could try to put you in check...and
consider to play with a team first mentality...well...that's wishing too much...
Even though he is young I think you will see Hayward step up and become a
leader. As soon as he becomes a starter and gets starter minutes, I think you'll
see him step up, he has shown flashes of that all ready.
In another article, I mentioned Frank Layden awhile ago said, "Jimmer is
the real deal". Frank is very knowledgeable about prospective NBA players.
He was the single person most responsible for the growth and emergence of the
Jazz as a great and successful franchise. Son Scottie, an assistant Jazz coach,
I'm sure feels the same way that Daddy does, and will undoubtedly make his
feelings known. So will Frank, who is still in the in with the Jazz. Look for
the Jazz to draft Jimmer at #12. Hopefully, he will still be there. This one
action will do as much for the Utah Jazz than anything else they do.
@WhatsinitForMe: Valid points about Jimmer. The MWC had an agenda because of
opposing coaches complaining that Jimmer got to the three throw line too often.
The league's solution was to not call obvious fouls against him. I guess the
league thought it was unfair that he got more foul calls than other players and
it disrupted the flow of the game. In the NBA, especially when he achieves
supersar status, he will get those calls, or at least many of them. If opposing
players do not foul him, then he will score. I see a comparison to John
Stockton, except Jimmer is a much better shooter. He does sometimes play a bit
out of control when he is trying too hard to create a shot for himself, but he
will learn to rely on his teammates to deliver from the pass. He could become a
great assist guard, if he learns to do that. He could be more dangerous than
Stockton, because of his shooting ability. The Jazz MUST draft Jimmer - not
doing so will come back to bite them big time. It is now evident the Jazz
should have drafted CP3 instead of Williams! Go Jazz.
No one currently on the Jazz roster is or will be a superstar. Without one, you
don't have a REAL leader.Some might become all-stars, but none will
be superstars.Enter The Jimmer. He's already got that status in
college. No one else, including Kemba or Smith, got close to it. They got their
props, but not superstar status.Only the naysayers, doubters, and
those who haven't paid attention can deny Jimmer's ability to lead the Jazz as a
point guard.Give Jimmer just one year and he'll turn Harris into
another Ricky "the fastest of them all" Green--the PG starter that
loses his starting job to the next Jazz PG superstar.A backcourt of
Jimmer and Hayward would be killer! They can both dribble, pass, and shoot. They
can both create their own shots, and get to the rim in traffic. AND, shoot
free-throws!Trey-adept guards can nullify any NBA defensive
scheme.Those who use Jimmer's season ending games' stats against him
aren't considering what that young man went through his last two months. Even
shooting poorly, he still kept breaking the 30 point barrier!
I keep reading that the Jazz should "keep" so and so and let others
go. You guys should look at the roster and see who is under contract next year.
That includes Okur and Bell. After this last year, I doubt any team
is interested in either one in a trade. We have to hope that Okur comes back to
form, or a team is interested mid-season in his expiring contract. We also have
to hope that Bell comes back with his missing shot.
I am amazed at the amount of knowledge we have in our comment givers...if Coach
Corbin doesn't pan out...why we have alot of experts listed here which can pull
it all together.
The comments have stated that there is no ledership on the Jazz. Obviously,
this is true. Williams took over the team and everyone followed him rather than
Sloan. It is obvious that Milsap was "locked out" by peer pressure.
Hayward had a good game and then he was "locked out" as well.
Basketball is a team game. Corbin has to step up and make sure that it is.
Harris wants to come in and pick up where Williams left off. He cannot be
allowed to do so. It would be better to bring in Brandon Knight to do the same
thing. Even if they are able to draft Kanter, would he be "locked
out" of the "in crowd"? It appears that Favors is being tested
for his role "among the elite". The Jazz need to build around the
"anointed one" Favors and get rid of everyone else who will not fit
that role. That is what the Lakers do with Kobie and "so be it".
The biggest problem with Harris and Jefferson is neither one of them can play
the pick-n-roll. Harris doesn't know how to hesitate and look for the roll or
pop. He is a very fast slashing guard that uses that skill every time he gets a
pick. That means he gets to basket a lot but has difficultly finishing at the
rim. AJ is much better in the low post and getting isolation on the low block.
I don't see either of them working out to be Utah's primary offensive weapon.
Hayward and Favors will eventually become the go to scoring tandem.
Hayward is almost there, Favors rolls to the basket well but needs to work on
his free throw shooting and midrange jumper. He needs to be studying Karl
Malone's and Boozer's game rather then AJ's IMO.Harris needs to
learn to run the offense and setup Hayward/Favors and AJ in the low block. He
needs to focus on using his cutting/slashing ability to set other players up
rather then just getting to the basket. Tony Parker is an expert at this skill.
Not making the playoofs this year and getting eliminated in the 1st round is
just what this team needed. Now the coaches and players who are all young in
their positions can take a deep breath and retool for next season if there is
one, if no season that won't hurt either. If Fess, A.K. and C.J. are going to
remain here get started right now on their individual programs for development.
Fess conditioning, A.K. same, and C.J. first to a head shrink then to a
conditioning and practice court. All 3 should be able to be signed for no more
than 6-10mil total. I don't see a position for Price, Elson or Bell here. Okur
needs to be included with the 3 mentioned above if we keep him also. The future
looks very bright to me, hopefully it turns out that way.
What is this talk about Dwight Howard? Kind of pointless to talk about him IMO.
He wants a big market team and hot weather year round. We have neither.
Pointless to discuss.
By next season, the Jazz will be totally made over. The problem is are Harris
and AJ really leaders? AJ has never been in the playoffs and Harris has been
losing for most of his career. Those two have not proven to anyone they want or
can win. I think if you want to be a leader next year then come to camp in
shape and ready to play defense by example.Millsap's language shows
he is not a leader. CJ forget it. Bell should be but doesn't do it. If someone doesn't step up soon, this team is doomed next year. Without a
proven leader and scorer, you are not going to be in the playoffs.
Love Jody, even though I didn't read the whole article it wasn't because it made
my stomcach turn...just the fact the story was bullet pointed made it the way it
was.this is what i think, u tell harrriss that dwight howard is available
and trade rumors are going to be inevevitable, that we need him to play as good
as he can regardless, go get it badger.