Utah Jazz look to find leaders in Devin Harris, Al Jefferson

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  • Kakashi Tokyo, Japan
    April 24, 2011 6:31 p.m.

    Trade Harris and someone...for Kirk Hinrich and Jamal Crawford...we still could have at best a top 8 on next year's draft...its the golden state pick from NJ protected at 7th...so the next 2-3 years would be solid for us...

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    April 21, 2011 11:00 a.m.

    @ CJ Miles...

    It's hard to believe after 6 years in the league that C.J. hasn't had consistent coaching. His inconsistency in his play is a direct result of his poor work ethic. His innate talent is there, but what's in his chest (proper killer attitude), is what holds him back.

    C.J. is basketball smart. You only have to listen to his post game comments to see that. He's usually spot on. But, he just doesn't seem to have the inner push to become as good as he's capable of. THAT's my problem with him.

    And, likely the Jazz brass' problem, if they don't bring him back.

    @ BillM75...

    You're correct that D-Will wasn't a leader. Just a superstar. Not all superstars are leaders, but most are. The Jazz desperately need a superstar that IS a leader. Jimmer might fit that bill.

    @ Bugoff...

    Spot on about Harris/Iverson comparison. That's why we need Jimmer! Also, the -8.3 on Watson suprised me. Was that more a result of his being the starter so many games? He always seem to help the team as a backup.

  • Kakashi Tokyo, Japan
    April 20, 2011 7:19 p.m.

    @King Black

    its because CJ Miles the poster is in denial...:D

  • Bugoff Houston, TX
    April 20, 2011 11:15 a.m.

    I have two words about Harris.

    Allen Iverson. KOC and Corbin should take note and make the comparison.

    Harris is a volume shooter with low assists. His style does not FIT the Jazz. He is like Riley Nelson running the BYU offense. Both Nelson and Harris are good athletes. They have talent. BUT their style does not fit the strengths of their team mates, the design of the offense nor the team culture. If they maximize their individual strengths it does not make their team mates better and does not maximize the teams output in the long run.

    Harris CAN do like Rondo and prune poor shots and improve his assists. But after 8 years, will he?

    Corbin has already adjusted the flex for AJ to some extent. He will more for Harris but the PG position is the most important one in the flex.

    The first draft priority may be a PG followed by SG.

    The front line of AJ/Favors/AK is excellent (assuming AK is still here). Millsap can back up. Hayward at SG. CJ can back up SG/SF.

    That is a decent team IF they play efficiently. Harris determines the efficiency of the team.

  • Bugoff Houston, TX
    April 20, 2011 9:30 a.m.

    To make things more clear. Opponents PER and to some extent Net PER are understating Millsaps ability to make opponents inefficient. Net PER is also not capturing Millsap's shooting efficiency. He is getting hit on both ends and thus looks worse (stat wise) than he really is.

    A more comprehensive look is needed at his total defensive effort and in the case of NET PER his total offensive and defensive effort.

    WP48 does not capture defense particularly well but Millsap is one of the 3 leaders on the team by that metric. But adjusted for position both he and AJ are low for their positions.

    AK is the best all around contributor by adjusted WP48. DWill and Boozer were better than AK and they are both gone. They were replaced by less talent (as measured by WP48) and that is one reason the Jazz are bad this year.

    The franchise had stability as long as it had talent. Take away the talent (especially the efficiency) and you get a LOSER.

    It will stay this way until the Team WP48 increases back to contender level.

    That comes from improving the efficiency of current players or getting better players.

  • Bugoff Houston, TX
    April 20, 2011 9:19 a.m.

    CAP L Locke is focused on defense and uses opponents Per. That is one camera angle of D. However, PER rewards volume shooting and does not penalize inefficient shooting. If Millsap (or any other defender) is making the opponent inefficient then he is doing a good job defensively. Fes's Defense is probably understated by opponents Per. If Fes would develop a couple more offensive moves and improve his FTs he would be valuable and probably start on some team.

    Millsap's D may be better than the PER stat quoted by Locke suggests.

    +/- is notoriously erratic but we tend to use it in arguments when it fits our perceptions or biases. I do not get to excited about +/- but tend to use it as a visual aid to confirm what is observed.

    I do not have the time to dig thru Millsap's total defensive stats right now but that would pin point the weaknesses in his D. His NET PER suggests he needs to improve his game but PER is not rewarding his offensive efficiency and not totally accurate.

    The Defensive rating system Sloan put in was pretty good. I hope they are still using it.

  • grouchyoldman Arden, NC
    April 20, 2011 9:14 a.m.

    I have been eating drinking and sleeping Jazz Basketball since they came to Utah. Fortunately for me the only stat that really matters is the final score. After all you when it gets right down to it all professional basketball is is grown men, being paid obscene amounts of money to run up and down a hard wood floor in short pants trying to put a leather ball into a metal hoop 10 feet off the floor AND I love it! So I enjoy the wins and suffer through the loses. However, I do know something about leadership and it is quite simple. You don't walk into a room and say you are the leader. Leadership requires a self discovery and then a self determination to be the leader. You either got it or you ain't and right now the Jazz ain't got it. If that leader is on the team, or will ever be discovered is still in question. Until then Ty Corbin better get used to not only being a coach but being the leader.

  • King Black Paso Robles, CA
    April 20, 2011 1:26 a.m.

    @ CJ Miles

    Why is that you say Sloan never played CJ or never gave him a chance or never tried to develop him or never gave him advice when just a couple of weeks ago when CJ had his 40 pt game.. and CJ said this himself.. he said: "Sloan tried to drill it in my head to take it to the hole to play more aggressive play hard D, but I never listened" now thats not what word for word of what he said but its pretty darn close. Looks to me that CJ has no excuse but I wish they keep him. O and for more advice once again Sloan started CJ is second season for a couple of games but then CJ Miles got his starting position taken later by a rookie named Ronnie Brewer this happened plenty of times with miles he Starts but then looses his starting role due to inconsistency and not listening to coach.

  • oldschool Farmington, UT
    April 20, 2011 12:48 a.m.

    The comments are often as interesting as the article. Jimmer is an excellent shooter and passer and a masterful ball handler. In the NBA, he can't be touched outside, and he will simply kill the opposition and demand double teams, and then somebody will be open. And NBA players are very good at hitting the open shot, so I would love to see Jimmer in a Jazz uniform. He is exactly at the average height of starting point guards at 6'2" and he is five pounds heavier than the average at 195#. Jimmer is not a better shot than Stockton, however. Look up his percentages, and realize that during his prime he was nearly 50% from the three-point line. When he retired, only one other point guard who had played 500 games had shot a higher field goal percentage, and that was Magic. Nash shoots better, however, and I'm guessing a couple of others.

    As for the leader of the Jazz, I would like to see a leader who demanded that Al pass out of the post, that CJ curl well inside the trey line, and that everybody pass to a more open player.

  • Bugoff Houston, TX
    April 19, 2011 11:24 p.m.

    Without going into a lot of detail on the 82 game stats. AJ has much better stats at C than at PF. He belongs at C at least with the Jazz. On a Net 48 minute PER AJ is better than Millsap.

    Millsap is much better at PF than at SF. He might be able to develop into an SF but I think that is limited. About 2/3s of Millsap's shots are jumpers. He can match up with Artest type SFs but Millsap is not an SF. Millsap really needs to come off of the bench behind Favors or if he will not do that he will need to be traded.

    Favors plays PF and C equally well and is much better than AJ (twice the rating) at C. This is based on limited numbers but Favors is going to be very good at both positions.

    This years Jazz just do not have enough offense, efficiency or D.

    Last years team would have contended this year as there is more parity among the top 8 teams.

    KOC has some more serious rebuilding to do. If you plan on trading Millsap drafting a big makes sense.

  • Bugoff Houston, TX
    April 19, 2011 11:08 p.m.

    @Cap L I will try to find Locke's stuff but here is what 82 games indicates.

    Net production points scored minus points allowed

    Williams 7.7
    AK 6.7
    Evans 6.2
    Favors 5.6
    Weaver 5.0
    Jefferson 3.4
    Millsap .8
    CJ -.7
    Hayward -4.6
    Harris -4.6
    Bell -6.1
    Elson -7.4
    Watson -8.3
    Fes -8.5
    Okur - 9.2
    Price -11.1
    Cousin -37.1

    This is for the whole year. Some players play better in the last couple of months and some played a lot worse. It does give you an idea of how bad the bench is and also how weak the SG position is.

    Fes, Elson and Watson are not offensive players. This stat confounds offensive capability (or lack) with defensive weakness (capability) but it does get head to head results.

    The Jazz need AK and Harris is a big step down from DWill so far. Where is Weaver now? Bell just had a bad year and does not fit any more.

    Look at the top 7 players. Without Williams and AK, AJ and Favors can not carry this team.

    Get some shooting guards!

  • Captain L Provo, UT
    April 19, 2011 10:07 p.m.

    I see several post that suggest the Jazz pick Burke but I don't like that idea or see why someone would suggest it. The Jazz have Hayward and CJ and the 2 spot is their best position, we need a young 3, a future point guard and a defensive minded center. That is why I have suggested Barnes, PJones, TJones, Vesely and maybe Leonard. Now Barnes and PJones aren't available so that weakens the pool but Vesely and TJones and even Leonard would be good picks.
    Knight, Jimmer and Walker could be good picks as a point guard, not sure who would be best.
    Jonas is the only center that fits the bill, rebounder, shot blocker, hustler etc.
    Bismark is interesting though, as he is long, athletic, shotblocker, rebounder, high motor, smart and young.

  • Kakashi Tokyo, Japan
    April 19, 2011 6:12 p.m.

    @CJ Miles

    once again you never failed to humor me...the Team Utah Jazz isnt a one man show...CJ Miles is a replaceable commodity...he was given consistent 25 mins per game even more i think...but he never took advantage of it...if he needs 30 mins to play to produce his numbers then that's being inefficient...he does have some slight value from what he is being paid...but...he will just be a role player...face it...he wont be an all-star and he will never be a superstar...he is like Darius Miles come to think of it...flashing briliance here and there...letting everyone know his potential...then dropping the next few games with extremely poor shot selection...though he is still young his option should be taken...at least one more year to prove himself..

  • Jazz Cop San Francisco, CA
    April 19, 2011 4:15 p.m.

    Paul is not the worst defender, by far, but he played the worst defense, by far.

  • BillM75 Salt Lake City, UT
    April 19, 2011 2:08 p.m.

    The Jazz really don't have a natural leader on the roster, and I don't even think DWrist was one either, he's just always been the best player on his teams.

    Price isn't a good enough player to lead, Raja is washed up and Watson is a career backup. Rookies can't lead unless they're Magic or LeBron level skilled, which Jimmer ain't.

    CJ is fine value at his contract, he just needs to shape up and stop shooting 3's.

    Locke's article on Jazz defense mentioned above was good, but I believe something is wrong with Millsap's numbers. All the other Jazz players ranking were close to their +/- rankings, except Paul. Paul has the 11th best +/- in the league, but he's the 8th worst defender? Impossible.

    Just from watching the Jazz play, the idea Paul is a bad defender, let alone the worst on the team is ludicrous. Doesn't pass the eyeball test.

  • Dr Truth SLC, ut
    April 19, 2011 12:37 p.m.

    I get why the Jazz want Harris and Jefferson to take the lead......Booz and Williams, Stockton and Malone......is history repeating itself or what? Clearly at times over the last couple of games, Hayward was not only the leader but the play maker at the end of the game. If your best player is also your leader then you have something. Hopefully, Favors will grow into that role.....

    The Jazz need to start thinking outside the box more. CJ the leader?? we don't even know if he will be on the team next season. CJ is not leadership material!! Being the most quotable, does not a leader make. Leadership by example and hard work also works, see Paul Milsap and the rookies....

  • JK Regina, Saskatchewan
    April 19, 2011 12:05 p.m.

    regardless of what the jazz do in the offseason next year will once again be a rough one....Hayward and Favors are developing..and they'll have 2 more high draft picks to add to the mix which means a learning curve for rookies...Harris is no leader nor a point guard on a serious playoff team...hopefully the Jazz draft someone that has promise to one day run the point...we are 2 years away from returning to the playoffs with any kind of serious hope for results

  • CJ Miles Dallas, TX
    April 19, 2011 11:15 a.m.

    You all make fun of CJ on here just because I back my boy. But if you could all be honest about his play, he is a steal for what the Jazz pay him. When CJ scored over 17 points a game, the Jazz rarely lost this year. That tells you how important he is to the team and winning. No one else has a stat like that on the team.

    CJ just needs some consistent coaching and consistent playing time. If Corbin gets him off the 3 point line and has him moving towards the basket on screens, he will be very effective. Jerry never understood how to use CJ. He would just always say, he needs to go to the basket. Well you have to run plays that allow that Jerry. Instead Jerry told him to stand on the 3 point line and watch Boozer and Dwill do their dance. Hopefully Jerry Jr. becomes Ty next year and changes things for CJ. If not, don't resign him because his talent is being wasted just like AK's was his entire career in Utah.

  • Jazz Cop San Francisco, CA
    April 19, 2011 10:34 a.m.

    In a couple of years these guys could really be playing well together, the Jazz have all their pieces, yes, harris, aj, are two veterans the Jazz need to hold onto. If Corbin wants to play two pgs in the starting unit, i don't see a huge problem, it seems that is the movement of the future.
    I don't have a problem with Harris trying to score the ball, he should focus on dropping dimes though, i think most people would be happy with him taking advantage of his one on one skills, if he was at the same time being at least being a competent capatain out there and making sure first he has a good feeling for the guys and he's getting them involved, before he feels the need to make something happen himself.
    As for Aj, he is one of the best low post players on offense in the league, he plays center and while his defense amounts to nothing, he's not much better or worse than any other mediocre center in defense and transition.
    In as little as a couple of years we could be making the case that there areothergreatcentersbesideshoward.

  • Captain L Provo, UT
    April 19, 2011 10:26 a.m.

    Bugoff: Your a stat man you should look at some interesting stats written by Locke on the Jazz site, shows Milsap as one of the worst defenders at his position and CJ and DWill about the same, not actually that bad (refering to CJ). AK was the 5th best defender in the league. Favors looks real good. Harris was terrrible.

  • Bugoff Houston, TX
    April 19, 2011 10:15 a.m.

    Harris has never had a good FG percentage. He tends to be a volume shooter. For him to lead the Jazz he needs to improve his assist numbers substantially and also do like Rondo and improve his shot selection.

    He could do it but he has not done it so far in his career. Inefficiency and volume shooting are exactly what the Jazz do not need and they particularly do not need it at PG. Harris should run the team better next season as he get to know the players and the offense better.

    AJ is one of the best low post players. He is a rare breed. But he tend to not pass back out when he should (lack of 3 point shooters). He tends to force the Wheezie and get blocked. Again the Jazz do not need inefficiency. Nor do they need a one man team.

    AJ did improve his game dramatically in the last 20 games of the season. Corbin modified the offense for him and it helped a lot. The offense tended to flow better and AJ attacked the basket quickly. I see progress.

    I suspect Corbin will adapt the offense to Harris and AJ.

  • klepsydra Longmont, CO
    April 19, 2011 9:55 a.m.

    Jimmer could be very good, there is no way he will be as good as Stockton. Even if he were on the team both Hayward and Favors have better shots at becoming superstars in my opinion.

  • Tyler Holladay, UT
    April 19, 2011 12:01 a.m.

    Jimmer being compared as better than Stockton? Wow. . . I mean WOW!

  • Captain L Provo, UT
    April 18, 2011 11:48 p.m.

    Like I said I think Hayward will become a leader on this team but I think CJ could become a leader if he could become consistent, I don't think he will step up and try to lead as long as he struggles to be consistent.

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    April 18, 2011 11:34 p.m.

    CJ being quoted a lot is because he's both willing to talk and more often than not he hits the nail on the head. If you've paid attention to his comments after a game and then applied them to that game, he's generally been spot on.

    Too bad he can't be that consistent on the court, though. He's been on the team long enough to have finally evolved into a consistent player. I see him being Hayward's backup as early as next year. Maybe spending a few minutes spelling the 3, as well, unless Evans suddenly blossoms.

    I believe his problem is that everything's come too easy for him. He doesn't really work hard for it. He's too talented for his own good.

    Look at CJ's body. Doesn't look a whole lot different than when he come on board, outside of normal maturity growth. That indicates a lack of will to get stronger. Again, I bet he doesn't work all that hard ON HIS OWN.

  • CJ Miles Dallas, TX
    April 18, 2011 7:32 p.m.

    Did anyone notice that after Dwill left, CJ was quoted more in the papers than anyone on the team. The press seem to think he is the next leader!!

  • Kakashi Tokyo, Japan
    April 18, 2011 7:01 p.m.

    First of the Dwight Howard suggestion is foolish and has lack of NBA insight...i mean come on...really?...for the leaders...i cant see harris being a leader...Al Jeff cant coz he doesnt know how to win yet...if memo hasnt been injury proned so much...he could've stepped up and lead...he is part of that detroit championship right?...proven winner...however he isnt vocal...and he doesnt play D that well...i think Captain L would probably be right...Hayward might step up and lead...i think he can lead by example...he is a hardworker...plus he isnt a me first type of player...and always considers the team...as displayed by his willingness to pass and create for teammates...in time...Hayward could be that leader...he may not be a superstar...but he could try to put you in check...and consider to play with a team first mentality...well...that's wishing too much...

  • Captain L Provo, UT
    April 18, 2011 3:55 p.m.

    Even though he is young I think you will see Hayward step up and become a leader. As soon as he becomes a starter and gets starter minutes, I think you'll see him step up, he has shown flashes of that all ready.

  • panamadesnews Lindon, UT
    April 18, 2011 3:10 p.m.

    In another article, I mentioned Frank Layden awhile ago said, "Jimmer is the real deal". Frank is very knowledgeable about prospective NBA players. He was the single person most responsible for the growth and emergence of the Jazz as a great and successful franchise. Son Scottie, an assistant Jazz coach, I'm sure feels the same way that Daddy does, and will undoubtedly make his feelings known. So will Frank, who is still in the in with the Jazz. Look for the Jazz to draft Jimmer at #12. Hopefully, he will still be there. This one action will do as much for the Utah Jazz than anything else they do.

  • panamadesnews Lindon, UT
    April 18, 2011 2:59 p.m.

    @WhatsinitForMe: Valid points about Jimmer. The MWC had an agenda because of opposing coaches complaining that Jimmer got to the three throw line too often. The league's solution was to not call obvious fouls against him. I guess the league thought it was unfair that he got more foul calls than other players and it disrupted the flow of the game. In the NBA, especially when he achieves supersar status, he will get those calls, or at least many of them. If opposing players do not foul him, then he will score. I see a comparison to John Stockton, except Jimmer is a much better shooter. He does sometimes play a bit out of control when he is trying too hard to create a shot for himself, but he will learn to rely on his teammates to deliver from the pass. He could become a great assist guard, if he learns to do that. He could be more dangerous than Stockton, because of his shooting ability. The Jazz MUST draft Jimmer - not doing so will come back to bite them big time. It is now evident the Jazz should have drafted CP3 instead of Williams! Go Jazz.

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    April 18, 2011 2:13 p.m.

    No one currently on the Jazz roster is or will be a superstar. Without one, you don't have a REAL leader.

    Some might become all-stars, but none will be superstars.

    Enter The Jimmer. He's already got that status in college. No one else, including Kemba or Smith, got close to it. They got their props, but not superstar status.

    Only the naysayers, doubters, and those who haven't paid attention can deny Jimmer's ability to lead the Jazz as a point guard.

    Give Jimmer just one year and he'll turn Harris into another Ricky "the fastest of them all" Green--the PG starter that loses his starting job to the next Jazz PG superstar.

    A backcourt of Jimmer and Hayward would be killer! They can both dribble, pass, and shoot. They can both create their own shots, and get to the rim in traffic. AND, shoot free-throws!

    Trey-adept guards can nullify any NBA defensive scheme.

    Those who use Jimmer's season ending games' stats against him aren't considering what that young man went through his last two months. Even shooting poorly, he still kept breaking the 30 point barrier!

  • LAJazzFan Los Angeles, CA
    April 18, 2011 12:57 p.m.

    I keep reading that the Jazz should "keep" so and so and let others go. You guys should look at the roster and see who is under contract next year. That includes Okur and Bell.

    After this last year, I doubt any team is interested in either one in a trade. We have to hope that Okur comes back to form, or a team is interested mid-season in his expiring contract. We also have to hope that Bell comes back with his missing shot.

  • Veracity Morgan, UT
    April 18, 2011 12:55 p.m.

    I am amazed at the amount of knowledge we have in our comment givers...if Coach Corbin doesn't pan out...why we have alot of experts listed here which can pull it all together.

  • JBQ Saint Louis, MO
    April 18, 2011 10:56 a.m.

    The comments have stated that there is no ledership on the Jazz. Obviously, this is true. Williams took over the team and everyone followed him rather than Sloan. It is obvious that Milsap was "locked out" by peer pressure. Hayward had a good game and then he was "locked out" as well. Basketball is a team game. Corbin has to step up and make sure that it is. Harris wants to come in and pick up where Williams left off. He cannot be allowed to do so. It would be better to bring in Brandon Knight to do the same thing. Even if they are able to draft Kanter, would he be "locked out" of the "in crowd"? It appears that Favors is being tested for his role "among the elite". The Jazz need to build around the "anointed one" Favors and get rid of everyone else who will not fit that role. That is what the Lakers do with Kobie and "so be it".

  • klepsydra Longmont, CO
    April 18, 2011 10:35 a.m.

    The biggest problem with Harris and Jefferson is neither one of them can play the pick-n-roll. Harris doesn't know how to hesitate and look for the roll or pop. He is a very fast slashing guard that uses that skill every time he gets a pick. That means he gets to basket a lot but has difficultly finishing at the rim. AJ is much better in the low post and getting isolation on the low block. I don't see either of them working out to be Utah's primary offensive weapon.

    Hayward and Favors will eventually become the go to scoring tandem. Hayward is almost there, Favors rolls to the basket well but needs to work on his free throw shooting and midrange jumper. He needs to be studying Karl Malone's and Boozer's game rather then AJ's IMO.

    Harris needs to learn to run the offense and setup Hayward/Favors and AJ in the low block. He needs to focus on using his cutting/slashing ability to set other players up rather then just getting to the basket. Tony Parker is an expert at this skill.

  • Old Timer the boonies, mexico
    April 18, 2011 9:14 a.m.

    Not making the playoofs this year and getting eliminated in the 1st round is just what this team needed. Now the coaches and players who are all young in their positions can take a deep breath and retool for next season if there is one, if no season that won't hurt either. If Fess, A.K. and C.J. are going to remain here get started right now on their individual programs for development. Fess conditioning, A.K. same, and C.J. first to a head shrink then to a conditioning and practice court. All 3 should be able to be signed for no more than 6-10mil total. I don't see a position for Price, Elson or Bell here. Okur needs to be included with the 3 mentioned above if we keep him also. The future looks very bright to me, hopefully it turns out that way.

  • JazzRule Bountiful, UT
    April 18, 2011 12:38 a.m.

    What is this talk about Dwight Howard? Kind of pointless to talk about him IMO. He wants a big market team and hot weather year round. We have neither. Pointless to discuss.

  • CJ Miles Dallas, TX
    April 17, 2011 11:59 p.m.

    By next season, the Jazz will be totally made over. The problem is are Harris and AJ really leaders? AJ has never been in the playoffs and Harris has been losing for most of his career. Those two have not proven to anyone they want or can win. I think if you want to be a leader next year then come to camp in shape and ready to play defense by example.

    Millsap's language shows he is not a leader. CJ forget it. Bell should be but doesn't do it.

    If someone doesn't step up soon, this team is doomed next year. Without a proven leader and scorer, you are not going to be in the playoffs.

  • Jazz Cop San Francisco, CA
    April 17, 2011 11:42 p.m.

    Love Jody, even though I didn't read the whole article it wasn't because it made my stomcach turn...just the fact the story was bullet pointed made it the way it was.
    this is what i think, u tell harrriss that dwight howard is available and trade rumors are going to be inevevitable, that we need him to play as good as he can regardless, go get it badger.