Mixed national reaction to Utah immigration reform

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  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    March 22, 2011 1:49 p.m.

    The two top crime cities in the United States are Detroit Michigan and Flint Michigan. Neither of these cities have significant numbers of undocumented immigrants, and the level of crime is close to being inversely related to the number of immigrants in a neighborhood in both these cities.

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    March 22, 2011 1:45 p.m.

    My ancestors barely learned English for a whole generation. Up until World War I many public schools in the US offered instuction in German. There were multiple Polish newspapers published in the United States as well as the Yiddish Theatre. A great portion of immigrants never learned English.

    Those ranting against immigration sound exactly like the no-nothings of the 1850s or the Nativists of the 1910s.

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    March 22, 2011 1:40 p.m.

    RRB's claims are rubbish. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has clearly stated it supports the principals of the Utah Compact. To claim the Church has done anything else is a boldfaced lie.

  • crime duquesne, ga
    March 18, 2011 4:17 p.m.

    What a mistake UT, 2.2 billion Ga , 10.5 billion Calif. the amounts spent on hosting illegal immigrants in those states.
    Prison pop. in Ga 40% is illegals, teen pregency up 32% most illegals,no other country allows criminals to walk its streets having no idea who they are (gangs, rapist,murders) with no ID, cost billions to its citizens, able to drive on its roads with no license,free education, health, welfare, and majority don't speak the language,and able to send over 70 million out of country back home, home values drop 4% on avg. in those areas and pay no taxes.

  • dhogle Mesa, AZ
    March 18, 2011 1:05 p.m.

    It is interesting to me that the church and or churches have taken a stance on this issue. Religious institutions have a unique perspective on immigration because they are given the chance to actually meet the immigrant and realize they are not taking away from our society but actually in a very real sense adding to it. They buy our food, gas, housing, etc. In many instances they are paying taxes as well. Most would sell their soul to be here in some legal capacity. Immigrants do not enjoy looking over their shoulder every minute of every day. But that is better than where they came from. Are they to blame for high health care prices, rising taxes, and longer wellfare lines? They are nominally to blame but the real blame rests squarely on self serving politics and unethical labbyists and policies. I am suprised at the narrow views of the readers of this site. Look at the big picture and spend your time and efforts on issues that truly affect our country.

  • dhogle Mesa, AZ
    March 18, 2011 12:08 p.m.

    I have been following the Utah immigration compact and reading most anything I can on the subject including the comments made by some of the people on this website. I am an attorney in Arizona and see first hand what aggressive legislation does on this topic. I would encourage the readers of this site and citizens of the U.S. in general to get educated on the matter before forming an opinion. Propaganda and press has made the immigration topic a scapegoat for the real problems we are facing. The reality is there will always be illegal immigration. We cannot stop it. The majority of the people coming here illegally are simply wanting to work and provide for their families. They are doing jobs that no other american is willing to do. Of course there are bad seeds coming too but what Utah has done is put the issue squarely where the problem belongs...to the federal government. There is no workable way an immigrant can come to the U.S. legally right now. So, encourage to close the borders, get a program so people can come here to work and be accounted for, kick out the bad. MY TWOCENTS

  • Trooper55 Williams, AZ
    March 16, 2011 8:21 a.m.

    What ever happen to the seprate of State and Church? I for one say that if they are here anyway but the right way then send them back to were they came from, and don't let the church have any say in the matter. They take jobs from people who have worked all their life and all the churches want to do is keep them here, make the churches that back theses bill pay for the up keep of them. Please don't put it on the taxpayers back.

  • calou84523 Ferron, Utah
    March 15, 2011 3:23 p.m.

    @Osgarth This is a black and white issue Crossing the border without authorization is a crime. The statute reads: 'Any alien who enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers . . . shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 (of the U.S. Code) or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both.

    If these wretched masses are truly "yearning to be free" then let them stay in there own country and overthrow their oppressors.

  • calou84523 Ferron, Utah
    March 15, 2011 3:23 p.m.

    @Osgarth My ancestors, like the millions of others of LEGAL immigrants that built this nation, came here legally . . . they were forbidden by law from being on the public dole, they learned English, they were net contributors to their new country not net detractors, in short they complied fully with title 18. The people you are talking about deserve no more humanity than does the burglar in the night or the armed robber on the street; their children have no more claim to citizenship than do the children of the bank robber have a claim to the money that the robber steals from the bank. Let me make this point clear . . . I welcome all LEGAL immigrants; their cultures, their hard work, their innovations, their respect of our laws, and their contributions are what made this nation great but those that are here ILLEGALLY are just plan criminals and should not be afforded the rights of citizens or those extended to those here legally but are deserving only of the punishment afforded to any other common criminal.

  • calou84523 Ferron, Utah
    March 15, 2011 3:21 p.m.

    @Osgrath I can't speak for all the right but I can speak for me and welcome an intelligent dialog. I'm willing to bet that your ancestors came here under the laws concerning immigration that existed at the time they immigrated.

    The reasons illegals are here have no more relevance than do the reasons any other criminal commits his/her crime, if asked every criminal will claim a good reason for what he/she has done.

  • Jazz Bass Man Wellsville, Utah
    March 15, 2011 12:19 p.m.

    Mr. Governor, please consider what the voters did to the RINOS Chris Cannon and Bob Bennett when they supported illegals over their own constituents. DO NOT SIGN HB116 OR WE WILL VOTE YOU OUT OF OFFICE.

  • TMR Santa Monica, CA
    March 15, 2011 1:22 a.m.

    J Adams, when you decide to make the move, might I suggest Mexico for your country of choice

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    March 15, 2011 12:39 a.m.

    No, HB116 is NOT "Utah's answer to immigration reform." It is NOT the will of the people of Utah at large. No wonder it was pushed through at the last minute, literally in the dark of night.

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    March 14, 2011 11:43 p.m.

    It looks more like the bill was meant to kill E-verify and keep the drivers privilege card program. Once it's killed, those parts are dead also. E-verify was one of Herberts points. #3

    We did not find a solution, we gave other states a way to kill enforcement bills.

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    March 14, 2011 11:43 p.m.

    HB166 makes no sense. If the governor signs it, and if the Federal government turns over immigration to Utah, it clearly has not been thought out.

    A person needs a drivers privilege card for a guest worker pass. They have to have a job lined up, one that is not wanted by Americans, or can't be done by one, and their pay has to be equal to others in the area doing the same job. 20% of the people here illegally work in agriculture, ranching, etc. The rest are doing jobs like construction. In order for an employer to hire a person under this program, they have to make sure that no citizens will do the job. Will our state enforce their own law, or face multiple lawsuits? This could be costly.

    And if the business owner has to hire a citizen first, if he's dishonest, he will just hire a person here illegally that never signed up. This could put everyone who signs up, out of work, unless they work in agriculture. And if they are out of work, their guest worker pass expires. This is a mess.

  • Osgrath Provo, UT
    March 14, 2011 10:58 p.m.

    Obviously open and respectful dialog is not something the political right seeks nor wants: cut and dried, black and white, and we are dealing with objects, not real human beings. We expect people who might be functionally illiterate, living within a corrupt system, knowing nothing of the fine points of the political process (rarely available to them in their home country) to work effectively with the system without any help.
    The percentage of criminals among them may be slightly higher than among native Americans, but the laws on criminality are clear: anybody convicted of a felony needs to be punished according to law, and every paroled alien criminal should be automatically deported, too.
    But punishing those huddled masses yearning to breathe free because of the criminals is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I guarantee that my immigrant ancestors, one group in 1708 from the German Palatinate, and another from Northern Ireland and Scotland in 1864, did not go through legal channels to come here. Likewise, many that came without papers in the past two decades have added a lot to our society and economy.

  • Woodyff Mapleton, UT
    March 14, 2011 10:17 p.m.

    Of course California and other states are interested in what Utah does. They hope all the illegals in their state will rush to Utah and save them from financial collapse. And of course, Utah will go bankrupt!

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    March 14, 2011 8:59 p.m.

    In my view, which spans more decades than I'd care to admit, the "federal problem" isn't illegal immigration, it's the US Congress. How many decades have we been without an energy policy, federal meddling in education without compensation, financial problems that cripple the entire nation, open-ended wars that go on and on (more than just one or two over the years--Korea, Vietnam, Gulf, Iran, Afghanistan, etc), trade inbalances, government health care, etc as well as immigration. Why do we keep sending these folks back? And when we finally decide enough-is-enough, what a hue and cry from those who are let go!!! It's just amazing!

  • CJ Murray, UT
    March 14, 2011 7:49 p.m.

    Allow one group to break the law with a pass? This idea is a monument to stupidity and insanity . How can anyone think this somehow makes sense? Can I get a pass to break tax laws while we wait for tax law reform? This stupid law will never pass the legal test and Herbert and the others who choose to pander on this will commit political suicide. This will be the biggest mistake they ever make. Illegals are going home sooner or later, the will of the majority is strongly against them. We are in charge they are not.

  • donquixote84721 Cedar City, UT
    March 14, 2011 7:40 p.m.

    I have friends from many cultures. I believe that the illegal and legal immigrants, that are pushing to remake the laws of the United States, should follow the example of Egypt and worked to Free all the people in their home government. I believe that we are all children of God and deserve to be free to govern ourselves and to be treated equally. I strongly resent immigrants that expect be given special privileges that taxpayers have to pay for.

    March 14, 2011 6:41 p.m.

    Utahns were the victims of a well orchestrated plan. Starting with the Utah compact that promoted amnesty, the only bump came when the LDS church did not sign it. Those involved just keep telling people that they endorsed it. Senator Robles guest worker plan appeared, but her ties to Mexico made it to controversial, so Senator Bramble stepped in with his "comprehensive" solution. After he took the heat, he passed it off to Reid and Wright.

    The only people who will gain from this is the Salt Lake Chamber of commerce. If it's vetoed or killed in court, it kills E-Verify enforcement. That should make the chamber happy. If it goes through, the chamber gets taxpayer subsidized labor.

    Utah's compact was all about greed. It hurts the Utah families that have to pay for it with lost jobs, homes, wages. It's a new low for Utah's business controlled Republican party.

    We want enforcement, we don't appreciate you giving away our jobs.

  • Resolute Voice Salt Lake City, UT
    March 14, 2011 6:25 p.m.

    The Latino "community" never wants to talk about the murders, rapes, and violent crimes their fellow compatriots perpetrate against Utah and its residents. They never want to talk about deportation of criminals. They never want to talk about the legal immigrants who swore an oath to the United States, learned English, and followed the rules. These individuals are expendable to Archie and Luz. We do not want amnesty, but we do want laws to apply to everyone. The Latino leaders seem to want the laws selectively applied. The Utah Compact does not address the very concerns the silent majority has about immigration reform. The feds are willing accomplices in their lack of priorities, and the state of Utah is trying to please everyone. The solution is not that difficult. Heavy enforcement of existing laws, employers should pay heavy fines (say 10% of yearly gross profits per working illegal found on site), and a reasonable pathway for non-criminals aliens. This should include oaths of allegiance and complete severance of all ties to foreign countries. This seems entirely reasonable.

  • gogogoff Orem, UT
    March 14, 2011 5:49 p.m.

    Instereo 12th Article of Faith.

    We believe... ...in HONORING, OBEYING, and SUSTAINING the LAW.

    Right now, it is illegal, so it is a CRIME.

    Try to get around that one.

  • Brother Chuck Schroeder A Tropical Paradise USA, FL
    March 14, 2011 5:48 p.m.

    Talking about Utahans and illegal immigration, reminds me of this movie.

    The movie "Battle Los Angeles" is unrealistic because America's army goes all out to defend L.A. If aliens really attacked L.A., Americans would say "Take it."

    Like it or not, I still say "REPORT THEM" when you see them every time, let ICE cuff them and deport them all.

  • calou84523 Ferron, Utah
    March 14, 2011 5:24 p.m.

    Those state Senators and Representatives who have voted for HB116 will pay the penalty, by being turned out of office, next election cycle as will the Governor if he signs this bad bill into bad law.

    In my opinion there are four types of people supporting the cause of HB 116, illegal aliens, and "open borders" (1) self-serving politicians seeking to pander to prospective (hopefully grateful) future Hispanic voters to maintain their power (2) greedy employers seeking cheap "economic slave" labour to increase their profits (3) individuals or organizations who profit from their situations and (4) good intentioned people who are being used as pawns of the others.

    The three former types are ingenuous in their claims to compassion and their opposition to xenophobia and racism which are only masks for their greed and racism.

  • Instereo Eureka, UT
    March 14, 2011 4:30 p.m.

    Many Utahans, evangeliscals, LDS, and GOP members make a big deal out of "moral" issues implying they are following "Christian" values or even boldly asking "What would Jesus Do?" Yet, they forget the very same God or ask the very same question of "What would Jesus do" when it comes to immigration.

    Personally I think the sooner we treat all humans as human now matter where they came from and the sooner we realize this whole world is connected and problems solved in one area are problems created in another and the sooner we get rid of the partisan politics we have in our state/nation, the better off we will all be.

  • MellBell Salt Lake City, UT
    March 14, 2011 4:29 p.m.

    Thank-you Utah. I am overwhelmed with joy with your decision. I APPLAUD YOU!

  • hpr Salt Lake City, UT
    March 14, 2011 4:14 p.m.

    I am very offended that the two guest worker program bills were passed. I will personally campaign against the Senator from my district who proposed one of these bills. She may be happy about the outcome but myself and many other voting citizens are very upset. From someone who has been displaced from construction work by illegal immigrants, it is very hard for me to consider supporting someone who does not support me. I am 59 years old and have no other training and I am now unemployed and unable to find any work. First time in 35 years. Pretty sad for a Viet Nam vet to be replaced by illegal immigrants. I will vow to support anyone who opposes the legislator(s) who introduced and supported the 2 bills that will be found to be illegal laws themselves.

  • J. Adams Sandy, UT
    March 14, 2011 4:06 p.m.

    My senator an representative don't give a darn what the majority wants: tough crackdown and deportation of illegals. The "utah solution" is a total travesty and an insult to the citizens. After trying so hard to have the legislature do the right and honnorable thing it is now clear to me that the only recourse left is to move to another country. BTW, I don't expect it to be better there, but that's the point. I don't expect to be betrayed by the government.

  • The Rock Federal Way, WA
    March 14, 2011 3:06 p.m.

    One very significant way to bring the budget under control is to eliminate social spending for illegal aliens.

    We must enforce our borders and we must also have a national guest worker program. We must also realize that many of these illegal aliens are good and decent people. Here is a solution that I think would satisify the enforcement only crowd (I consider myself part of this group).

    1. Offer a large reward to people, including illegal aliens, who turn in employers who employ illegal aliens without engaging in due diligence to keep them out.
    2. Make it illegal to rent housing to illegal aliens. The penalty? The landlord has to refund all the rent.

    This will set illegal aliens and their employers and land lords at each others throats.

    Don't enforce these provisions until 6 months after the law is passed to give all the opportunity to settle their affairs.

    Start a guest worker program at the same time you begin enforcing the above provision with the understanding that the guest workers stay here for no more than 3 to 5 years, a background check will be done and their children born here are NOT citizens.

  • Brother Chuck Schroeder A Tropical Paradise USA, FL
    March 14, 2011 2:44 p.m.

    Sorry Utah, "we the real people" are "NOT" going to support, just deport these illegal immigration's, that's our reform Utah.

    With our national debt poised to reach its $14.3 trillion limit in the very near future, taxpayers expect Congress to work together to reduce wasteful and unnecessary spending and be more vigilant about how we spend public funds. The American people want Congress to deal with the tough issues of cutting spending, and almost every member of the Senate has agreed that we must address our fiscal situation immediately.

    While there are certainly many issues that warrant the Senate's consideration, we feel that the Senate must not debate and consider bills at this time that do not affirmatively cut spending, directly address structural budget reforms, reduce governments role in the economy so businesses can create jobs, or directly address this current financial crisis.

    The American people resoundingly rejected the way the Senate waited until Christmas Eve as a mechanism to force hurried debate on President Obama's massive health care legislation. Voting to proceed to another legislative measure effectively runs away from the central issues of spending and debt and repeats that flawed process.

  • gogogoff Orem, UT
    March 14, 2011 2:14 p.m.

    ILLEGAL is a crime, THE END, if our State Officials, refuse to call a spade, a spade, then we MUST replace them!