The Utah solution

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  • NealT Salt Lake City, Utah
    March 20, 2011 6:15 p.m.

    The 12th Article of Faith of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
    (LDS) reads as follows: "We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law." This is the scriptural basis of the LDS Church for obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law of the land. I assume this applies to all the laws of the land--not just selected ones.

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    March 15, 2011 2:53 p.m.

    The only thing these comments reflect is that the vocal, motivated by passion people generally hate people based on the location of their birth, and distrust people based on the color of their skin.

    There are lots of other people who are sick and tired of people who put more weight in political than religious leaders. People who are tired of those who do not heed the council to love others that is preached by President Monson and others, people who ignore the command to "love thy neighbor".

    There are lots of people who really do love, they are just drowned out by a few die-hard politicos who may claim to be Latter-day Saints but when the principals of their political party and the principals of God come in conflict, they always chose their party.

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    March 15, 2011 2:48 p.m.

    If the Obama administration stops the implementation of HB116 it will be used against Obama in 2012. It will be a hard sell for him to stop this program. He might, but it would cost a lot politically.

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    March 15, 2011 2:44 p.m.

    I never thought hate and anger for fellow children of God was a value taught be Jesus Christ. The second commandment is to "Love thy neighbor". Sadly, most of the die-hard "anti-amnesty" people fail this.

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    March 15, 2011 2:42 p.m.

    Contrary to John Charity Spring I think these are by far the best pieces of legislation we could hope for. The guest worker program is a key to comprehensive immigration reform. More stringent penalties for employers who ignore the law is another.

    For a Republic to work we need educated masses. We also need respect for the rule of law balanced with kindness and charity. That is what this set of bills creates.

    This is not a quick bowing to the demands of one faction as was seen in Arizona. This is a balanced law.

  • Conservative Veteran Layton, UT
    March 12, 2011 3:18 a.m.

    This bill is unconstitutional. The state of Utah cannot issue visas. It essentially has the state of Utah aiding those entering our country illegally - specifically countering federal law. This is limited to the federal government perview. This point alone is why it should not have passed and why the governor should veto it.

  • cc0623 Roosevelt, utah
    March 10, 2011 11:25 p.m.

    I am always hearing about these polls in the media. How come I am never polled? I doubt the majority is polled. I think they call 500 hundred people to get a guesstimate and go from there. That does not make it a valid poll.

  • legalimmigrant Springville, Utah
    March 10, 2011 5:13 p.m.

    The point is not whether the illegals pay taxes or not, or whether they bring money to the economy or not, or whether they commit serious crimes or not. They are here ILLEGALLY, and that is plain WRONG. I came here legally, and chose to follow the rules. Why should they receive special treatment for breaking the law? Please stop trying to justify their actions. And to my LDS brethren, isn't it wrong when we try to justify our actions when we break a covenant or commandment?

  • Woodyff Mapleton, UT
    March 10, 2011 4:57 p.m.

    A typical trick of the media is to attempt to change public opinion by polls. Depending on the wording of your questions and the sample you use, just about any result you desire can be obtained. People want to label those against illegal immigration as 'racist', or anti-immigration (like JP71), when that is not the case. I support legal immigration and have a family member that became nationalized through the proper process. There is an old saying that applies to polling, "figures lie, and liars figure". The Des News has supported illegal immigration and the Utah Compact. But I don't know about you, but no one has contacted me for my position. Why, because I live in a very conservative area.
    "It has long recognized by public men of all kinds ... that statistics come under the head of lying, and that no lie is so false or inconclusive as that which is based on statistics. - H. Belloc"

  • hispanic from AF American Fork, UT
    March 10, 2011 4:45 p.m.

    It looks like Mexico is regaining all the territory that used to be theirs....and they are doing it with help from Utah's government! Imagine that!

  • tmkh American Fork, UT
    March 10, 2011 4:06 p.m.

    To @positiverealist and the others who are a voice of reason on these hate-filled boards: THANK YOU! I'm definitely in the 71% that support this bill. And there must be a lot of more us out there--we just have better ways to fill our time than spewing hate on a DN message board.

    I think that Gov. Herbert may even EARN my vote if he passes legislation like this, proving that he is a pragmatist about issues that are far more complex and require more thought than those with the "send 'em all back" mentality wish to employ. I rarely have occasion to commend the Utah Legislature for well-thought-out, reasonable, measured solutions but this is one case where I will do just that.

  • positiverealist Salt Lake City, UT
    March 10, 2011 3:12 p.m.

    I am also a State Delegate for the Republican Party and I can say that we need to look for reasonable solutions not sit around and complain about things. It is true that over 24 billion is sent out of the country each year but it is also true that over 300 billion is made by these undocumented people and is spent here in the US each year and 75% of them pay taxes on that money never to get any of it back. They all pay rent or house payments and that means they do pay into the education fund because property taxes are a large part of what pays for education. Only a small percentage of them are criminals just as a percentage of any group of people are criminals. Herbert asked for reasonable legislation and the bills that came out don't offer amnesty since there is a fine involved and a criminal background check. Amnesty is being let off with no consequences this is not amnesty. Enforcement only will only make the people go further underground but programs such as a guest worker program will allow people to be open and help with solutions.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    March 10, 2011 2:45 p.m.


    Is US Army occupation the moral criteria for settling another nation? When do we get to setup homesteads in Iraq and Afghanistan? I understand there is oil in Iraq.

    Besides, I thought the whole point of the LDS emigration to Utah was to *escape* the United States.

    This is just another example of using nuance and circumstance to justify something that was wrong.

  • BoomerJeff Saint George, UT
    March 10, 2011 2:19 p.m.

    In July 1847, the Utah Territory was already under the control of the United States army when the Mormons arrived. 7 months later Mexico surrendered the rest to the USA. I wish people would be taught correct history.

  • DMH Salt Lake City, UT
    March 10, 2011 2:13 p.m.

    @Alfred, That was my point, they don't want citizenship, they just want to use up all of our resources. If they wanted to become citizens, then there would be no problem, but all they do is use up our tax money, take our jobs, etc. This is why any kind of guest worker program is out of the question at this point. We have tons of Americans already out of work and need any kind of job to help pay the bills. The last thing that this country needs is to have a bunch of illegals coming in to use up our jobs and resources.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    March 10, 2011 1:52 p.m.


    Territorial integrity is a given, don't you think? I don't feel the need to post a "No Trespassing" sign on my front door to deter burglars. It's a given that my home is private property.

    Do you see other nations as being fair game for invasion? Or does it all depend on what laws (may or may not) be on their books?

  • facts_r_stubborn Kaysville, UT
    March 10, 2011 1:47 p.m.

    @jimhale said, "They probably think "margin of error" means how much the results differ from their own view."

    This is totally true. Particulary of the posts from the single issue demagogue bloggers on this article. Notice how they always claim to speak for "all or the vast majority of Utahn's agree with my narrow warped view of reality." These statements are arrogant at best and clearly lies at worst.

    I can have study after study and poll after poll proving they are wrong, and all they can say is that the poll must be rigged in some vast conspiracy, where every media member, professor, pollster and politician is corrupt. Every one is crazy except for those who agree with their parochial views. Their vision extends about two inches past their nose.

    The fact is the majority of people are not crazed ideologues. They are just busy raising their families, working at their jobs, serving in the their churches. And yes often, because they are busy they often neglect their civic duties, and they certainly don't waste time blogging, except for those of us who feel compelled to challenge the single issue loons and their crazy ideas.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    March 10, 2011 1:29 p.m.

    Apparently 70% of Utahn's agree with a comprehensive, compasionate approach, but 30% of Utahns want an enforcement only vindictive. However those 30% are extremely passionate in their views, and the 70% agree with the Utah Compact, but they don't stay let the issue keep them up at night.

  • Hunt Spanish Fork, UT
    March 10, 2011 12:52 p.m.


    Really? Mexico had no law against illegal immigration into the territory now known as Utah back in 1847. So I fail to see what point you are trying to make.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    March 10, 2011 12:46 p.m.

    A significant reason Mexico is in upheaval now is because after NAFTA a multitude of Mexican corn farmers were displaced by much, much cheaper US grown corn.

    To some extent they turned to an export market - drugs - and sought alternative means of employment, namely labor in the US.

  • Alfred Nuevo Leon, Mexico
    March 10, 2011 12:33 p.m.


    "I would have absolutely no problem if every illegal in the United States marched down to Immigration and got their paperwork in order and did whatever it took to be here legally..."

    Yeah, but you see... that's not what they want. They don't want citizenship as was reported recently in the DNews. They just want to be able to exist in the land of the free and the home of the brave without necessarily becoming citizens or even legal. This becasue they have essentially ruined their own country, from which they've escaped, due to abject neglect of the values we hold dear as outlined in the Constitution and other documents.

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    March 10, 2011 12:31 p.m.

    Its fairly simple really.........

    If the Guv. signs the "guest worker" bill it becomes obvious that jobs for illegal foreign trespassers are more important than jobs for actual Utah tax-paying citizens!

  • Janell West Valley City, Ut
    March 10, 2011 12:27 p.m.

    Jimhale, The comment boards are sometimes a representation of the general claim "never" (or even always) in regard to any group of people is inherently flawed logic.

    Just because you disagree with my views doesn't give you the right to insinuate that I am uneducated ("People who actually think these boards paint an accurate picture of public opinion and people who think polling is to be distrusted - even when done by non-partisans - probably have one thing in common: they have never had a class in statistical analysis.They likely have never heard of the mean, the median or the mode. They probably think "margin of error" means how much the results differ from their own view."). I have taken statistics and am very familiar with the mean, the median the mode and Margin of error, thank you.

    I don't discount the poll because I disagree with it, but because obviously so many others disagree with it as well, and it is suspect because of the liberal slant of those who payed for it.

    I disagree that the general public supports a pathway to citizenship to illegal aliens when so many Americans are unemployed.

  • DDurrant provo, ut
    March 10, 2011 12:07 p.m.

    Read the bills & laws. Yes find a way to make Utah better. Why not let human being be part of our country especially if they prove their value. Should they have to prove anything? Well at least there is a way.

    Right now a much bigger event is happening in Utah history. The Governor and Law makers are attempting to make us, WE THE PEOPLE (who pay their bills) more and more insignificant. Again, Read the bills and laws.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    March 10, 2011 12:01 p.m.


    Actually, the pioneers in 1847 entered a foreign country, without permission.

    I've heard all kinds of nuanced explanations trying to diminish or otherwise complicate the issue (much like the array of rationale we hear today on immigration), but the simple, unalterable fact is in 1847 this was Mexico, and the pioneers came here uninvited.

    Fact is fact. A very simple edict - obey the law. (Well... unless it is 1847 and you're inspired by the Almighty.)

  • wjalden Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 10, 2011 11:57 a.m.

    The Utah Solution: same as the solution in California, which has lead to more Americans leaving that state than entering.

    I am all for the "Utah Solution" for three reasons:

    1) It completely puts the lie to the claim of the open borders wackos that immigration is a "federal issue." They're happy with making it a state issue, so long as that means more cheap labor.

    2) It will be thrown out by the courts, and the state legislature will have to justify the cost of defending it. They can't.

    3) It ensures that immigration will be front and center during the 2012 elections, which will not benefit Herbert, Hatch or all the neofeudalist/cheap labor proponents in the state legislature.

    This law will not make Utah a model for the country, anymore than our 19th Century version of marriage did. What it will do is once again make us its laughing stock.

    Furthermore, I expect all of the state legislators who voted for this bill to move into neighborhoods where they can be surrounded by the illegal immigrants they purport to love. Any other choice will demonstrate their hypocrisy.

  • Hunt Spanish Fork, UT
    March 10, 2011 11:47 a.m.


    Nice tactic. I'll need to try that sometime. Just say that "what I'm about to say will be lost on most here" and essentially shield myself from being called to the carpet. Because after all, I'll be operating on a higher plain.

    I completely disagree with the notion that giving illegals a back door path to citizenship at the federal level is a good idea.

    Just because I disagree with you on the topic does not mean I am loud, angry, nor closed minded. It only means I disagree with you based on my experiences and the research I have done. To write people off and degrade them through labels is a pretty classless move on your part.

  • DMH Salt Lake City, UT
    March 10, 2011 11:29 a.m.

    This bill is the exact opposite of what Utah citizens want and if Herbert signs it, he will not get my vote in the next election. We do not want a bill that allows people to immigrate here and not have to apply for citizenship. If they plan to live here to have a better life, then do it legally and completely. I would have absolutely no problem if every illegal in the United States marched down to Immigration and got their paperwork in order and did whatever it took to be here legally, even if that means going home and coming back in with the proper documentation. Utah needs to uphold current immigration law and if the Federal government doesn't want to make it easier for immigrants to become citizens that is their choice, but we should not be trying to find ways to circumvent the Federal laws already in place.

  • Janell Ventura, Ca
    March 10, 2011 11:27 a.m.

    You know, I find the way the legislature has betrayed us as reprehensible.

    First we had Sandstroms bill that put some teeth into the law and mandated E-Verify. It made it out of the house, somewhat gutted (police may choose to enforce..or not). It was when it hit the senate that it was wrapped into a "comprehensive" bill. This "comprehensive" bill contained other bills that are so clearly against federal law (guest program with a Mexican state) that the whole bill will certainly be struck down if signed.

    So this is really a cynical attempt by the Senate and (and some of those in the House) to appear like they are doing something to combat illegal immigration, when in fact they are encouraging illegal immigration.

    It seems to me that we need to have an Honor Code like BYU. The legislators must be honest in their platforms and when they go against their stated political positions, we should be able to deal with them the same way that BYU deals with their students. I don't see them waiting till after graduation to take them to task. Why should we?

  • overitnow murray, utah
    March 10, 2011 11:18 a.m.

    we need to weed out criminals but we dont need to give illegals a free ride here either. if they are illegal they should lose the right to be here . only if they apply for work perment before coming here should they be allowed entrance here with out getting any finicals help untill they pay taxes and heve been here 5 years

  • jimhale Eugene, OR
    March 10, 2011 11:07 a.m.

    "If this board and the many other ones are any indication about how the voters feel, Herbert should be wary of voting for this amnesty bill."

    This comment all comment NEVER representative of the general public....or even of the readership of the newspaper, either on or off-line.

    People who actually think these boards paint an accurate picture of public opinion and people who think polling is to be distrusted - even when done by non-partisans - probably have one thing in common: they have never had a class in statistical analysis.

    They likely have never heard of the mean, the median or the mode. They probably think "margin of error" means how much the results differ from their own view.

    While the wording of poll questions is important and some pollsters do use better sampling methodologies than others, to discount a poll because you don't agree with the results, is just plain silly.

    By the way, most independent polling suggests that, nationally, the general public supports a pathway to citizenship....whenever you ask the questions right.

  • Cherilyn Eagar Holladay, UT
    March 10, 2011 10:54 a.m.

    What good does a criminal background check do if a person has not been convicted of a crime, which all the illegal aliens who are using Social Security numbers fraudulently are doing? This bill is a ruse. Utah will not tolerate the back room deals of politicians (unnamed or the D News will block this message) whose politics more closely resemble that of Nancy Pelosi and the windy city from whence one of them came.

  • facts_r_stubborn Kaysville, UT
    March 10, 2011 10:49 a.m.

    I'm afraid the distinction I'm about to make will be lost on most of my fellow Utahn's who are single issue ideologues. I would never try to change their minds. Many of these are loud and angry people who do not acknowlege facts contrary to their close minded opinions. They do not listen to reason. My posts are never for the true believer single issue demagogues.

    Having said that, while I agree with the D News editorial in principle, I think it is important to point out again the first principle of the Utah Compact, "FEDERAL SOLUTIONS Immigration is a federal policy issue between the U.S. government and other countriesnot Utah and other countries."

    I will acknowledge also that the Utah comprehensive law is a model for the nation and that by taking this action Utah may help give courage to national leaders to do the same. However the key is "model for the nation." Utah can't solve illegal immigration on its own or even with other states joining.

    To finish what Utah started, Congress must act.

  • leer Salt Lake City, UT
    March 10, 2011 10:41 a.m.

    DesNews and Dan Jones continue to pander on the side of illegal aliens and questionable motive. The facts are not being exposed due to media bias. An overwhelming majority of Utahns statewide support the VETO of HB116 including GOP delegates and they don't support amnesty, which is exactly what HB116 is. It's about time local pollsters and media alike started covering the issues objectively like they used to do back in the day when rule of law meant something.

  • sjgf South Jordan, UT
    March 10, 2011 10:25 a.m.

    OK. The article summarizes the bill, which means the author put his/her own spin on it.

    I just read the bill. It blew me away to see how Utah is trying to circumvent federal law. This bill makes it clear that it only applies to people who are in the country illegally, and should not be here in the first place.

    The legal analysis at the end of the bill makes it clear that the bill will most likely be struck down as being unconstitutional. I've read that George Washington had the policy of vetoing only legislation that he felt was unconstitutional. Well, Governor Herbert, here is an unconstitutional law you can veto, if you are like minded with George Washington.

  • Hunt Spanish Fork, UT
    March 10, 2011 10:22 a.m.

    Compassion is a voluntary act. Any attempt to force it through government programs is hardly compassionate. Liberals and Progressives are very good at figuring out ways to spend tax payer dollars but never seem to find it in themselves to give up a little more of their own. How about every person that wants compassion start by doing more themselves and stop trying to force there ideals down other peoples throats through the support of government enacted programs.

    Our ancestors not only immigrated here legally but did so without the safety net we currently have. They took personal responsibility for there lives and did not look to burden the government as a solution to their problems.

    As we have grown as a nation it became necessary that we control immigration due to the billions that would flood our country if they could. Millions come here legally every year. Those who want current immigration laws abolished and allow unlimited amounts of immigrants into our country are short sighted and fail to see the long term consequences.

  • DougB Spanish Fork, UT
    March 10, 2011 10:00 a.m.


    I would respectfully disagree with your contention. We *are* mostly recent (as in the last couple centuries) in the United States of America. It has been one of our strengths and defining characteristics as a "shining city set on a hill" welcoming any and all who want to be free.

    In the most recent 100 years we have been growing more and more proud, racist, and elitist. Our current immigration quota system found its genesis in the naked ambitions of California congressmen exploiting some morally unfounded but popular anti-Chinese racism back in the 1880's. It was such a successful shtick that it was emulated and copied many times over to limit different populations like the Catholics from Ireland and Italy until eventually we had the current hodgepodge mess we've inherited today. Now we have those like Senator Hatch bragging that they want to shut down *all* immigration from any country if the hopeful doesn't already have a clear tie to the United States.

    So very disappointing that we could grow so proud and elitist so quickly. Five of my ancestors were on the Mayflower but I don't consider them more "legit".

  • isittrue Midvale, Utah
    March 10, 2011 9:59 a.m.

    Strong societies have always been built on inexpensive labor(some free).
    The U.K., China, U.S.A ., good kingdoms protecting their people.
    And we share, our clothing, appliances, autos, and books.
    FREE LABOR FREE LABOR FREE the people, well, I am free to choose good.

  • Bowman Lompoc, CA
    March 10, 2011 9:58 a.m.


    Current legal immigration is at all time record high levels and has been for many years, higher than when your ancestors came.

    Waiting times have trippled for many legal immigrants because of all the illegal aliens and their relatives that have been jammed into the legal immigraton system by past amnesties just like HB116, these amnestied illegals crowd out legal immigrants, amnesty broke the immigration system. If you want to reduce waiting times then oppose HB116 and any other benefit for illegal aliens.

    Also the only Mexicans being killed are drug gang members, non gang members are in less danger of dying than the average American. You seem to be saying give refugee status to drug gang members.

  • Lave American Fork, Utah
    March 10, 2011 9:53 a.m.

    RRB, so if there are plenty of people out there willing to work for a living wage I can assume you are willing to pay the price for the products and services that you receive that are needed to cover those living wages. Not an excuse for migrant workers just a reality.

    March 10, 2011 9:49 a.m.

    JP71, some of my relatives came (legally) from Mexico. With over 1 million people each year receiving green cards, we are taking in people faster than we ever have in history. And the war in Mexico did not start until 2006, long after the bulk of people came here illegally.

    The problem is this generation from Mexico has a entitlement attitude, they don't think they have to wait in line, after all, they are not here for citizenship, but for jobs. If they stopped coming, it would force business to use visas and honest measures. We are our own worst enemy, as this generation is going to spoil it for those who follow.

    That's fine with me, I am an American.

  • sjgf South Jordan, UT
    March 10, 2011 9:44 a.m.

    JP71: You said, "Arent we all immigrants?"

    The answer is simple. "No."

    You are implying that we should allow anyone to enter the country with no restrictions.

    My great-great grandparents were immigrants. They followed the laws as they were at the time. I am a native-born American. I do not come from a line of illegal immigrants, but from a line of legal immigrants.

    There are legal avenues for those who would follow the "American Dream." And then there are those who have no regard for the laws and find a way to sneak across the borders, live in the shadows, and take advantage. No, my immigrant ancestors did not sneak across the borders or live in the shadows or take advantage. Nor, probably, did yours. And I do not condone the actions of those who currently break the laws.

  • Bowman Lompoc, CA
    March 10, 2011 9:42 a.m.

    HB116 also violates the Utah Compact stated purpose that: "Utah's immigration policies must reaffirm our global reputation as a welcoming and business-friendly state".

    90% of the foreigners who will benefit from HB116 are from one country, Mexico. What about the millions of non-Mexicans who wish to immigrate here? Utah is telling them tough luck, HB116 will give Utah a global reputation as not welcoming immigrants.

    March 10, 2011 9:41 a.m.

    Lave, most of the cherry crop is picked by machine. Has been for decades.

    The rest of your examples have plenty of people willing to work for a honest wage. Let's stop making excuses for people who break the law, shall we?

  • Bowman Lompoc, CA
    March 10, 2011 9:34 a.m.

    HB116 enacts exactly the opposite of the Utah Compact which states: "We respect the rule of law". HB116 instead places law breaking illegal aliens at the front of the immigration line, while doing nothing to help the 4 million real (lawful) immigrants waiting years and decades overseas, if anything it will make them wait longer.

    HB116 is anti-immigrant, and anti-law.

  • sjgf South Jordan, UT
    March 10, 2011 9:30 a.m.

    The article gave us a very brief synopsis with lavish praise for the legislation. As they say, the devil is in the details. I wish the article had given us more details about the bill, so I could more easily determine whether I agree with the synopsis.

    With the limited details, I have to generally agree with many posters here who are concerned that Utah is about to reward illegal activity. What we are essentially saying is, "If you break federal law and cross the borders illegally, you are welcome here in Utah." This will be interpreted by millions of non-Americans as, "Since the United States winks at its immigration laws, and Utah is laying out the red carpet for us, let's pack our bags for Utah!"

    I think this is the wrong message, and would like to see Utah help the Federal government enforce its laws, rather than provide a carrot to circumvent the laws.

  • Bowman Lompoc, CA
    March 10, 2011 9:20 a.m.

    Did not God state: "You shall not bear false witness"?

    Yet that is exactly what the DN does when they claim the bill would: "provide a pragmatic guest worker program that doesn't create a path to citizenship."

    Once legalized these "guest workers" will birth lots of US citizen children. Since nobody wants to "break up families", sooner or later the parents will also be on a path to citizenship. The DN knows this, yet they claim exactly the opposite.

    Since the DN opposes ending this roundabout path to citizenship through elimination of birthright citizenship for illegal aliens and temporary visitors/workers, they knowingly support putting illegal aliens on a new path to US citizenship.

    So what has possessed and caused the DN to knowingly "bear false witness"??

  • JP71 Ogden, UT
    March 10, 2011 9:06 a.m.

    Lost in DC,

    My ancestors came when the U.S. allowed a much larger amount of immigrants in the country and they were helped by the Perpetual Immigration Fund from the LDS Church. Now it can take years to get a "No" on an application. I agree that people should not come in illegally but the system is broken.

    Mexico is a war zone, and for many of the people from Mexico the choice was to come in illegally or die. What would you do for your family? I know what I would do. Yes some are involved in criminal activity. But some are hard working folks just wanting a better life.

    We must have compassion on people that are in need and not lump all immigrants into the same "lump". We need to take a step back and look at the human factor and not just the policy.

  • Drifter Provo, UT
    March 10, 2011 9:02 a.m.

    I don't know who writes these editorials But never in my life have I seen such one sided bunch of clap trap presented a newspaper. Where is the compassion for the TAX payer who has to foot the bill for all this? What will you do when the hospital has to close the emergency room or close the hospital. It's happening in California already. Who pays the bill when your identity is stolen? The Taxpayer! Who pays for the extra jails? The Taxpayer! Why should the honest Legal Taxpayer be penalized for illegals? Think about it-if you are a Taxpayer you should be enraged over this. Are You?

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    March 10, 2011 8:57 a.m.

    You forgot to mention and give credit to Representative Sandstrom in your editorial. He has work tirelessly and with great statesmanship through this whole devisive process. Thanks Rep. Sandstrom

  • sock Nephi, Utah
    March 10, 2011 8:54 a.m.

    Bill Wright is a dairy man The reason for his bill is evedent. He uses imagrants to do his work at a low wage.Everyone I know is against this bill unless they are benifiting financialy from ilegal imagration.

  • Lave American Fork, Utah
    March 10, 2011 8:43 a.m.

    DavisMan, question. Can you give me the name of any "working class American" that is going to be willing to work at McDonalds or pick cherries or milk the cows. I keep hearing people such as you complain about all the jobs that are being taken by imigrants. What jobs. All the good paying manufacturing jobs have gone away because you are willing to give your money to Wallmart and China. We need to control our borders but maybe we also need to be willing to be a part of the solution. Stop complaing about things that you you are not willing to help solve.

  • homebrew South Jordan, UT
    March 10, 2011 8:39 a.m.

    Utah should be an example to the nation::::: LOL hahahahaha

  • Capt. Smash Bountiful, UT
    March 10, 2011 8:37 a.m.

    We should open Utah to all Mexicans that come here illegally. Why not? We need more cheap labor to drive prices down. If I can pay someone 10 bucks to cut my grass instead of 30 bucks whats wrong with that?

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    March 10, 2011 8:20 a.m.


    your ancestors came here legally, as did mine.

    Why do insist on lumping illegal immigrants in with legal immigrants.

    LEGAL immigrants are MORE than welcome. They have already DEMONSTRATED a respect for our laws by going through the LEGAL process to immigrate.

    Stop trying to obsfuscate by lumping all immigrants into one basket.

    March 10, 2011 8:18 a.m.

    Amnesty isn't just citizenship. To a person here illegally just for the work, amnesty is being allowed to stay and work. Robles and Yapias have told Utah they are just here for the work.

    This is the promise of amnesty, to keep people here until they realize it's going to die in court. And that is cruel. You are manipulating people to maintain a surplus of labor. It's not compassion, it's selfish greed.

  • UtahVoter Spanish Fork, UT
    March 10, 2011 8:17 a.m.

    I am a GOP State delegate and I definitely support guest worker programs.

    I do not fear immigrants and it is indelibly clear to me that every person commenting on this article descended from immigrants who came to this land seeking better opportunities.

    I honestly do not understand the elitism, rancor, prejudice, and short-sighted scapegoating that attempts to pin all of our society's current ills on the same sort of immigrant hopes that brought most of our ancestors to these very lands.

    It reminds me of the Zoramites with their proud and blinding hypocritical speeches on their Rameumptom in the Book of Mormon where they thanked God for having made them "better" somehow from the beginning than their less fortunate neighbors.

    Perhaps those of us less filled with thoughtless anger and surprising misperceptions are less vocal, but if Dan Jones were to call me I would certainly support reasonable legislation like this and I, for one, am grateful to hear that I have other fellow-citizens with this perspective as well.

    It's too bad that it's usually the angry and contentious that are the most motivated to comment here.

  • mississippi Gulfport, MS
    March 10, 2011 8:10 a.m.

    Where are the stats stating "most Utahns don't want this bill"? Is there a legitimate poll out there stating such evidence? Is the "most Utahn's" crowd the same bunch that hijacks the Republican state conventions every election cycle? I believe most Utahns don't participate in the process at the level necessary to truly make their wants known. As a current resident of Mississippi who owns a home in Utah and eventually plans to return, I'm interested in the politics of the state. I wouldn't vote for Gary Herbert for a variety of reasons, but I don't think this is one of them. I will be investigating this bill more, but it sounds like progress to me. Immigration is a very complicated issue and more that just the 60 second sound bites most often heard.

  • countryscotty Orem, ut
    March 10, 2011 8:01 a.m.

    Funny thing about this poll. I don't believe it's results. I have not spoken to ONE person that thinks letting the illegals that are here illegally stay here with a "permit" from Utah is a good idea. Herbert will loose my vote and many others if he signs the 116 bill into law. People should be punished for breaking the law regardless of race, sex, country of origin or social status. I have to follow the laws and so should everyone else (including the illegals).

  • BoomerJeff Saint George, UT
    March 10, 2011 8:00 a.m.

    I wonder how the 17% of Utahn's who are unemployed or underemployed (the real unemployment number) feel about this bill? They'll have to compete for jobs with hundreds of thousands of illegals who will pour into our state to take advantage of this amnesty program. To me it looks like they'll never find a job again.
    I wonder why the environmentalists are so quiet when this will cause additional use of water, power and pollution to our state?

  • mohokat Ogden, UT
    March 10, 2011 7:58 a.m.

    I am suspect that the special interest who is pulling the strings in the legislature is the same special interest that is pulling the strings which prompts this editorial

  • Doug10 Roosevelt, UT
    March 10, 2011 7:28 a.m.

    These elected officials have become a law unto themselves. They have received info that the constituents do not want a guest worker program. Utah was very high on the Arizona program yet the government did what they wanted instead of making the tough call.

    Why make a new law for immigration when there is already one in place? why why why? Who are these people serving anyway?

    I wish I could say I was proud of the legislature but in all honesty I cannot.

  • Jonathan S Salt Lake City, UT
    March 10, 2011 7:22 a.m.

    From the editorial: "the very popular guest worker concept."

    "Popular" among those who benefit from transferring to the (net) taxpayer the cost of doing business. Not popular among the (net) taxpayers who will foot the bill, at least not among the informed ones.

    I routinely emphasize the difference between those net taxpayers and those who pay taxes at all because so many people are under the naive impression that an illegal alien who pays sales tax for his Slurpee is on par with the citizen who pays more in all taxes than he consumes in public resources. Such misinformed people represent the majority of the public who think unskilled, uneducated immigrants are "good for the economy."

  • Jonathan S Salt Lake City, UT
    March 10, 2011 7:10 a.m.

    The editors insist that this bill does not create a path to citizenship for its recipients. Of course it does.

    The children these "guest workers" will inevitably have will receive automatic citizenship under the current, ludicrous interpretation of the 14th Amendment. Once these automatic citizens reach their 18th birthdays, they will be able to sponsor their parents for citizenship.

    It's plausible that the very phrase "guest worker" is designed to deceive. These people will amount to more than guests, because they will receive rights as well as privileges. They are also more than workers, they are (net) tax consumers, eventual recipients of sponsorship for citizenship, eventual voters for the big government regulatory state that their Republican benefactors so abhor, and eventual parents of people of the same description.

  • mohokat Ogden, UT
    March 10, 2011 7:04 a.m.

    The DN should consider their own poll. The comments reflected to the various articles on immigration. Like the above comments reflect it seems that most are against this bill. Which includes me. I promise that I will work hard to defeat re election of any who voted for this bill. Did you hear that Sen Reid?
    When it comes to you I have already started! Reid seems to be alot like another Sen Reid. In regards to this editorial Hog Wash!

  • BYU Alum Cedar Hills, UT
    March 10, 2011 7:04 a.m.

    Herbert is toast in our family if 116 is not vetoed.

  • jim l West Jordan, UT
    March 10, 2011 7:01 a.m.

    The Gov. had better veto hb116. I am a delegate also and he will lose my vote forever if he does not. The DN is full of it, again with this article. Utah does not need, or want a guest worker program. I will be interested in seeing how my rep. voted.

  • danaslc Kearns, UT
    March 10, 2011 6:16 a.m.

    The poll conducted by Dan Jones who has a conflict of interest, polled a little over 400 people. Who were those people? 90 Delegates left work to meet with Herbert. State Delegates represent the people. The people need jobs. Children need to be able to work in fast food, men need to work in construction. We need our taxes lowered and our crime rates lowered. We do not want to be California because of bad legislation. We paid 455 million to support anchor children of illegals and it is the illegal who decides where the money is going. Enough is Enough. We live in tough times and it is to for measures that will take care of the CITIZEN. Herbert is not for the people.

  • C. Darwin Sandy, UT
    March 10, 2011 6:05 a.m.

    The majority of Utahns do not want HB116. What the DN writes is absolutly the opposite of the majority opinion. This article reminds me of a defense attorney's position; he is paid to make the truth sound false and the wrong sound right. DN, I don't know how to shame you anymore than the write-in posters already have.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    March 10, 2011 5:40 a.m.

    not so fast,

    it is true there are not enough workers to provide all the benefits promised under government programs, but without JOBS for the workers, those extra workers (aka illegal immigrants) create a greater burden on government resources. and guess what? there aren't enough jobs

    It isn't popular, but it is true.

  • DavisMan Clearfield, UT
    March 10, 2011 5:10 a.m.

    My only question about this "poll" is what percent of the people polled were working class Americans. Hey Dan try polling them, the one's who take the full hit from importing cheap labor illegally.

  • JP71 Ogden, UT
    March 10, 2011 3:48 a.m.

    Arent we all immigrants? I am a fourth generation immigrant from England. I think that most people who do not like this bill are just anti-immigrant period. I wonder what the Native Americans feel about all of us being here? Or was it their fault for being on our land before we got here?

    March 10, 2011 3:42 a.m.

    Legislatures and government officials know this bill (HB116 ) will never see the light of day. The Federal government is not going to turn over immigration to Utah. This just puts laws on hold and encourages more people to come here illegally. It assures a continuous supply of tax subsidized illegal labor to Utah's business community. What has happened to this country.

    This bill is not based on principle, but on greed. We should be wise enough to understand the difference. You don't reward dishonest behavior. You don't start a guest worker program while 7.5% of the state is out of work. You don't hurt a persons ability to feed and house their family. That is the most destructive thing society can do to a family unit.

    This solves no problems, it's just continues to build on the old. That's what the the Utah compact was about, no change. Just continue to allow the law breaking.

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    March 10, 2011 1:49 a.m.

    Herbert has been around long enough to know the proper weight to give Dan Jones polls.

    There are two guest worker programs, one gives amnesty, the other doesn't. How do they know which they supported?

    One works with with the "H" visa already in use. The other would require lawsuits, a complete re-write of labor and immigration laws, and dozens of lawsuits. It is a two year stalling tactic.

    We can have enforcement and a guest worker program using the current visa available now, or we can watch lawsuits fly for two years, and be right back here in 2013 with nothing changed.

  • Clean Air Draper, UT
    March 10, 2011 1:28 a.m.

    It's a sad day. The voters need to rise up and reject all the elected officials who supported amnesty. Tomorrow, I will cancel my subscription to the Deseret News.

  • Hunt Spanish Fork, UT
    March 10, 2011 1:14 a.m.

    "It represents the will of the majority of Utahns as expressed in polling."

    I'm sorry, but the DNews is not impartial on this issue as indicated by their one sided reporting. How are we to believe they are impartial on their polling? They are, in fact, misleading in reporting that 71 percent support the bill. 30 percent of that 71 percent only "somewhat" supported. In addition HB116 hadn't been introduced when the polling was done.

    It is obvious to me that the DNews is worried that Herbert is not going to sign the bill into law. Why else would they write this opinion piece now?

    Lastly, if you do a google search on "Desert News polling and immigration" you'll see polls conducted by the DNews and Dan Jones only months apart that contradict each other. This fact alone goes to undermine the credibility of our new agenda driven in town news paper.

    Herbert should be smart enough to know at this point that any polling done by the DNews is not necessarily going to be indicative of the truth.

  • Grasscutter New York, NY
    March 10, 2011 12:25 a.m.

    So since when can a state issue a work permit? It's nothing new for elected officials have no respect for technicalities like "laws" or "the constitution", but I (used to) expect more from the Deseret News.

  • SLars Provo, UT
    March 10, 2011 12:13 a.m.

    I don't think our government should be run by one questionable poll.

    I have never trusted Dan Jones, and more than once other media has conducted polls that are just the opposite.

    You don't reward dishonest behavior.

  • Janell Ventura, Ca
    March 9, 2011 11:59 p.m.

    It is often said that there are 3 kinds of lies: Lies, Darn lies and statistics. I'm sorry, but I don't believe the polling (designed and paid for by politicians) that the gov. is obviously pressured to base his decision on. As someone who used to work for a polling company, I know that the statistics can easily be swayed by the wording of the question. For example, one survey we did was about abortion. If the respondent approved of abortion in the case of rape, incest or the mothers life was in danger, they were quantified as pro-choice. Also, the method of choosing the respondents could also affect the results. If only certain areas were polled and not others, it could gain them the results they desired. If this board and the many other ones are any indication about how the voters feel, Herbert should be wary of voting for this amnesty bill.
    I find it laughable that they writer of the editorial calls the guest worker provisions, "very popular". That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

  • Lectori Salutem Beautiful Salt Lake Valley, Utah
    March 9, 2011 10:48 p.m.

    Consider this from the Republican Party Platform:

    "We oppose illegal immigration and all forms of amnesty, or legal status, for illegal immigrants. We support suspending automatic U.S. citizenship to children born to illegal immigrant parents. We oppose granting government benefits to those illegally present in the US. We oppose any temporary or "guest" worker program that would offer an automatic path to citizenship. We believe that current laws against employing illegal immigrants should be vigorously enforced, particularly to stem the now too common crime of identity theft in obtaining employment."

    Now this Republican-dominated legislature gives us HB 116, which feels an awfully lot like amnesty to me and will give legal status to illegal immigrants.

    As for the Deseret News, they laud BYU for sticking to their principles and honoring their "honor code." Why, then, do they not insist that our legislators honor our rule of law (honor code) and our American principles of honesty and integrity with regard to illegal immigration? Why the double standard?

    The Republican Party had better decide who and what it is or it's not going to hang onto those of us who are extremely disillusioned.

  • Mr. Bean Nuevo Leon, Mexico
    March 9, 2011 10:46 p.m.

    "What lawmakers have forged through the legislative process reflects the will of the vast majority of Utahns."

    That's a bunch of baloney. It's obvious the numbers were taken from the Hispanic community.

    The little town of Neuvo Leon will swell to millions to get their work permits and migrate to the US, never to return. Mexicans must by saltating with absolute joy.

    What Herbert is missing or choosing to ignore is the federal aiding and abetting of illegal immigrant laws (8 USC 1324). Implementing bill 116 will automatically cause state employees who find illegal immigrants jobs to become instant felons. Same with employers who give jobs to illegals. The guy is an idiot if he signs the bill.

  • Emophiliac Vernal, UT
    March 9, 2011 10:28 p.m.

    I've always considered Herbert to be a politician, someone who knows which way the wind is blowing. We saw this a year ago, where Herbert tried to call a special session to deal with immigration and then dropped it when it looked like the eVerify enforcement bill would be strengthened rather than weakened. If enough people contact Herbert and let him know about the political suicide that the Guest Worker bill would be, then he will likely not sign it. But there is always that conflict of who is contributing to his campaign that is the wild card...

  • Not So Fast Salt Lake City, UT
    March 9, 2011 10:18 p.m.

    I wonder if people realize our current workforce in the USA will not have enough workers and contributors to government programs to pay the benefits and social security of the larger generation that has gone before. Utah doesn't face the same problem because we have lots of kids, but most states lack workers.

    In 20 years Europe, USA and Japan will need a lot more workers but the US will need them less because of migrants that have come here to work.

    It isn't popular, but it is true.

  • Right or Wrong Happy Valley, Utah
    March 9, 2011 10:10 p.m.

    "detractors from small but vocal groups"

    They numbers are not what the DN thinks they are.
    Large numbers of people I talk with on a daily basis, who know more than what is fed them, are very angry. Immigration reform, true reform was what we wanted. It is not what we got.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    March 9, 2011 8:44 p.m.

    Reagan's amnesty bill failed, and this illegal amnesty bill will cost Herbert his job if he signs it.

  • WestGranger West Valley City, Utah
    March 9, 2011 8:36 p.m.

    I applaud our representatives for rising above the intense passion and even hatred in this issue. Undocumented aliens should not be generalized as being all criminals nor do they deserve a free pass.
    Clear heads prevailed and saw past the unfair demands and prejudices that emerged from both sides of the issue. The word "illegal" puts an ugly and dehumanizing label on a human being. Being fluent in spanish, I have come to know the souls behind the label. For the most part, humble and extremely hard-working people.People who we as a country have allowed to live along side us for decades now. Cheap and convenient labor.Our government has allowed our borders to go unprotected. This hurts both U.S. citizens who are exposed to a criminal element form Mexico and it hurts Mexicans here who easy targets for exploitation. We now have a reasonable, educated solution that addresses our national interest and is also more humane.

  • Considering Stockton, UT
    March 9, 2011 8:20 p.m.

    How tough is it for legislators, our governor, and the media to understand: NO AMNESTY!

    We must not, we cannot afford to, reward illegal conduct.

    Reagan's amnesty was a one time thing. Even that encouraged millions more foreign nationals to illegally enter our nation. This bill is an endless open door. By extending amnesty to anyone here by a certain date, anyone who can gin up some fake utility or rent bills that "prove" they were here by that date will be able to stay forever. This would be disastrous even in a vacuum.

    But with virtually every State around us cracking down on illegal aliens and increasing enforcement efforts, Utah will be THE sanctuary State of the entire inter-mountain region.

  • Littlebit Salt Lake City, UT
    March 9, 2011 8:05 p.m.

    Another unbelieveable pro-illegal opinion piece by the Deseret News. This bill is going to open a can of worms that can never be put back into the can. Does the DN even read the posts on their own comment board? The vast majority of those who post are against any type of guest worker program or any rewards or incentives for illegals. If this bill is signed into law, the state will never be the same. We will be overrun with illegals, even moreso than we already are. I simply don't understand the agenda of those who think this is somehow a good thing.

  • legalimmigrant Springville, Utah
    March 9, 2011 8:02 p.m.

    Wow! 71% of Utahns agree with a work permit for illegal aliens if they have a job and pass a background check... I guess I am in the 29% who oppose this ridiculuos bill!

  • CJ Murray, UT
    March 9, 2011 7:30 p.m.

    What a bunch of baloney!! The usual DN amnesty agenda at work again. If Herbert signs 116 he is done in this state, but the DN doesn't care. As a registered Republican and delegate I can tell you that Herbert won't make it out of the convention in 2012, he will tossed out on his head. Billions of dollars are flowing out of our economy and they are going to Mexico thanks to illegals and their pandering bleeding heart supporters like the DN. They steal jobs, they steal services, they commit crime, and they send everything they can home to where their loyalties are. And where do the loyalties of the DN fall in this debate? Read this commentary and you will have no doubt left. The DN doesn't care about Utahns that is plain, their loyalties are with illegal lawbreaking criminal invaders.

  • John Charity Spring Alloway, NJ
    March 9, 2011 7:21 p.m.

    Herbert would be wise, when he considers whether to sign this bill, to remember the famous words of Thomas F. Meagher, "Beware of the tyranny of the masses, for it is no less evil than the tyranny of one."

    In essence, this bill represents the tyranny of the masses at its worst. Indeed, it is a case of politicians cowering to public opinion, rather than making a reasoned, prudent decision that is in the best interest of the community.

    What we need in this Country is to be led by those who are smarter, harder working, and more educated than the great hordes of the public. We need these statesmen to ignore public opinion and do something because it is right, not just because it is popular. Unfortunately, Utah has been saddled with a governor who did not graduate from college, and thus, is likely to go with the populist movement when considering this bill.