Y's 'no sex before marriage' benefits study still a hot topic

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  • justme0001 Mesa, AZ
    Feb. 11, 2011 12:27 p.m.

    I was raped when I was 16. Does that mean I have less of a chance at a happy marriage because I had premarital sex? According to most of the theories I have read on here, it does. Have any of you read Tess of the d'Urbervilles? That book is an excellent example of showing the double standard society has for premarital sex between men and women. It's not always about religion and staying "pure". Just sayin'.

  • Sego Lilly Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 9:25 p.m.

    for those who think that it's OK to have sex for whatever reason before marriage just remember that you are having sex not just with the person you're with but also with every person that he or she has been with. This is why abstinance is so important and there is less risk of getting an STD

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 7:06 p.m.

    'We should eliminate everything from the medial (and web) that is designed to arouse.' - The Rock | 3:07 p.m. Feb. 10, 2011

    This made me laugh.

    So, we should get rid of the Hooters in Midvale?

    Or how about imagination?

  • pikap1868 Layton, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 6:05 p.m.

    I guess my grandparents' 60 year marriage was a sham... Mom's b-day is six months are my grandparents' anniversary. My sister and I still shutter at that thought.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 4:06 p.m.

    4th point:

    "Study Casts Doubt on Abstinence-Only Programs, (Washington Post 4/14/07): A long-awaited national study has concluded that abstinence-only sex education, a cornerstone of the Bush administration's social agenda, does not keep teenagers from having sex. Neither does it increase or decrease the likelihood that if they do have sex, they will use a condom."

    My example to support that abstinence does not work?

    Well, someone who was raised in a 'abstinence only' home who STILL got pregnant outside of marriage, of course!

    Bristol Palin.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 4:03 p.m.

    1) I believe the 'Family Psychology' already has a pre-concived bias that abstinence before marriage is 'good.' Why?

    Why else would they add the 'family?'

    Psychology does not need involved a family unit. My example?

    My 2nd point. When did believers of faith, rely on psychologists? My example?

    **'Psychologists nix gay-to-straight therapy' - AP - 08/05/09
    Line:
    'The American Psychological Association declared (sic) that no solid evidence exists that such change is likely, says the report, and some research suggests that efforts to produce change could be harmful, inducing depression and suicidal tendencies.'

    Every time I post this someone claims psychologist's aren't 'real or valid.'

  • charlie91342 Sylmar, CA
    Feb. 10, 2011 4:03 p.m.

    so first of all... sex is fun. it really is. it is one of the most fun things to do, period. most people would agree.

    why would God have made it so pleasurable if He didn't want you to do it?

    I think most of the posters here are confusing sex with love. friends with benefits has its.. benefits

    granted, with love comes sex. but the reverse isn't necessarily true.

    can't it just be fun, no strings, if both people want that? is that really a "sin" if both people agree?

    thats the part I don't get. why friends with benefits is a sin.

  • The Rock Federal Way, WA
    Feb. 10, 2011 3:07 p.m.

    Society pays a very high price for sex outside of marriage.

    It has been shown that if you do three things:
    1. Graduate from high school
    2. Don't get married before you are 20 years old.
    3. Don't make a baby before you get married.

    There is an 80% probability that you will never live in poverty. Miss any one of them and you have an 80% chance of living in poverty.

    Add one more item to the mix; if you can manage to stay out of jail, the odds of never living in poverty increases to 95%.

    A major reason people drop out of high school is, they get pregnant or become a father.
    Statistics show that a very high percentage of people in jail came from fatherless homes (I have heard figures as high as 95% but 85% to 90% is more common).

    What causes fatherless homes? People having sex outside of wedlock, getting married before they are ready, and financial problems (caused by poverty).

    Society has a right to defend itself against these problems. We should eliminate everything from the medial (and web) that is designed to arouse.

    Do it for the children.

  • klove Roy, Utah
    Feb. 10, 2011 1:07 p.m.

    Having been happily married for 20 years, I want to say that we didn't have sex before we were married. Our sex obsessed culture is completely skewing what is important in relationships. Sex is important. But it is only one of many parts that makes a successful marriage. But it seems to be the tabloid/pop-culture value that people get obsessed with.

    My advice to people who only are looking for the right sex chemistry: Grow up or start finding a good divorce lawyer the first year of your marriage.

  • Joggle Clearfield, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 11:03 a.m.

    Sex is a very personal and very subjective topic. It can be very confusing as there are no clear cut rules to follow....Biblical prohibitions aside. I agree that bonding and intimacy are about far more than just sexual relations. True intimacy involves the emotional need and desire to share with a life partner and to be a part of the total experience of sharing each others lives. Bonding is intimacy and that involves letting another person into our lives completely and allowing love, tenderness, warmth, compassion, acceptance and a feeling of closeness to enter into our hearts and lives. Knowing whether or not premarital sex should be included in the mix is not always a simple question to answer. A person must look back into their past and ask if premarital sex has helped or hindered their past relationships and then make the decision that is right for you. It may or may not hinder. It is an individual decision. Many people develope a committed intimacy bonding before marriage by delaying sex until that is established yet still have premarital sex when the time feels right...perhaps wholely or partly so they will have more certainty before marriage_takes_place.

  • troubs Enterprise, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 10:05 a.m.

    Jacob 2:28
    28For I, the Lord God, delight in the achastity of women. And bwhoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.

  • Joggle Clearfield, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 10:04 a.m.

    @nyca411

    Wow...I like how you twist my words into something NOT meant by me and assume. I'm not talking about casual sexual encounters or affairs. I was talking about people who are seriously contemplating a committed relationship to each other for a future togther...not casual sex. Uncommited sexual relationships exists though and I could care less what people do in their bedrooms or motel rooms or wherever. That is their business! And while a healthy, strong relationship can lead to great sex....that isn't always the case. What...you think all the counciling and sex therepists are just treating people in uncommitted relationships who had premarital sex and NOT people who waited for marriage? There are plenty of people who have an otherwise great relationship with their partner, but the intimacy in the sexual part is lacking.

  • Alex 1 Tucson, AZ
    Feb. 10, 2011 8:54 a.m.

    Learning to be unselfish, patient and faithful to your spouse has a more profound effect on sexual satisfaction than a knowledge of superior technique.

    When I married, I had absolutely no experience with another person sexually. However, because of our observance of the law of chastity, my wife and I had what we needed to succeed. My wife and I learned technique together. Our sexual experience is not a performance, but a profound expression of our love and dedication to building up a family. It is incredibly satisfying to both of us.

    Technique will never be enough without patience, kindness and selflessness. Technique can be easily and quickly learned or fixed, but the virtues encompassed in the law of chastity require self-discipline over time for their full expression in the sexual act to be manifest.

  • pat1 Taylorsville, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 7:06 a.m.

    People on both sides of this argument will never agree. But the same old problem exists with pre-marital sex: often there is a lack of commitment because at least one partner is just having fun while often the other wants more than the other partner is willing to give. Women, especially young women, often have emotional attachments with the man they are sleeping with that aren't matched by their partner. If you are the type of person who really wants a home, family and a traditional lifestyle, you will find that after the physical part of a relationship is satisfied, you will want everything else, which likely is not there if sex is how the reationship began in the first place. Chemistry is part of love, but just part.

  • Hawkeye79 Iowa City, IA
    Feb. 10, 2011 6:51 a.m.

    @ CHS 85,

    Your question is irrelevant. Both a "yes" or "no" answer to your question would still leave us with the results of this study which have been accepted by academic reviewers as a methodologically sound contribution to the knowledge domain of Family Psychology.

  • Chris_B Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 5:37 a.m.

    Wickedness never was happiness. God's ways are not man's ways. Follow His counsel and be blessed. Follow worldly trends and be cursed. Plain and simple. An honest, communicating, loving couple will have a healthy, satisfying love life because they want to together. Pre-marital experimentation is a lie and a cop-out for those who lack self-control and listen to the wrong voices. We reap what we sow!

  • nyca411 Menlo Park, CA
    Feb. 10, 2011 12:03 a.m.

    @Joggle
    RE: Knowing that you like sex with a person is a sure sign that the relationship is more likely to last.

    >>Uh, have you heard of this place called Hollywood? Its filled with rich, thin, beautiful people who like sex! Yet, look at the divorce rate. Look at how many of the married movie stars/TV stars have affairs. So clearly, knowing that you like sex with a person is NOT a sure sign that the relationship is more likely to last. The best sex is between a married man and woman who are committed to building their relationship on EVERY level. A healthy, strong relationship leads to the great sex.

    @charlie91342
    RE: Adultery means a married person cheating on his/her spouse. so it doesn't have anything to do with pre-marital sex.

    >>Actually, adultery means that the man and woman having sex are not married to each other, but at least one of the persons in the relationship is married to someone else. Thus, pre-marital sex, as the two partners having sex are not married to each other.

  • Monsieur le prof Sandy, UT
    Feb. 9, 2011 11:11 p.m.

    Isolated and hearsay anecdotal stories and "I firmly believe" statements don't make something true. Trust the research. Every recent study of pre-marital sex and co-habitating say the same thing: they are unhealthy and produce short-lived relationships compared to faithful marriages. It matters not whether you are religious or not, truth is truth.

    That, coupled with the sadness and tragedy that can occur with kids having sex before marriage, is reason enough to abstain.

  • JSB Sugar City, ID
    Feb. 9, 2011 9:46 p.m.

    If people waited until they were married before they were sexually intimate, there would be a lot fewer cases of AIDS and other STDs around. That sounds like a great idea to me.

  • CHS 85 Sandy, UT
    Feb. 9, 2011 8:30 p.m.

    @Hawkeye79

    Do you honestly think that BYU would have submitted their results for publication had the results been the opposite?

  • TexasMom Flower Mound, TX
    Feb. 9, 2011 7:19 p.m.

    So which is it? LDS couples rush to get married so they can have sex... or ...sex is taboo to them and they never develop healthy (good!) sexual relations even after marriage?

    I did have one roommate who said the only thing her mom ever taught her about sex was that "it hurts and you aren't going to like it but you have to do it anyway." They rest of us eagerly looked forward to it. Unless someone is taught things like the one roommate was, people are usually smart enough to realize that sex is good and something to be enjoyed!

  • Hawkeye79 Iowa City, IA
    Feb. 9, 2011 6:08 p.m.

    To those who are skeptical of the study simply because it originated at BYU:

    The reviewers at the Journal of Family Psychology don't appear to share your skepticism, as they accepted it for publication.

  • charlie91342 Sylmar, CA
    Feb. 9, 2011 5:57 p.m.

    re - RedShirt | 1:34 p.m

    ok. I will concede that it is in the bible. I don't believe it is a sin to God, but I admit it was a sin in the eyes of the guys that wrote the book.

    re - panamadesnews | 4:20 p.m
    "Have you read in the Bible where the religious leaders were going to stone a woman caught in the very of adultry (no mention whether she or the man involved were single or married, so it could have been fornication - single consenting persons having sexual relations)."

    adultery means a married person cheating on his/her spouse. so it doesn't have anything to do with pre-marital sex.

    "When we kneel before our maker to be judged, what will he say when we say, "I didn't think it meant that". He will say, "Why didn't you listen to the prophets - I did send prophets to teach the people, to tell them of the consequences of their actions."

    do you really think there are afterlife consequences for premarital sex? i guess if you believe God wrote the bible, then you would think it is all a sin.

    you eat shellfish?

  • Independent Henderson, NV
    Feb. 9, 2011 5:48 p.m.

    SJ, you are spot on. I think the church is right to guard chastity, but unfortunately, immorality is so pervasive in our society, that we have had to go overboard in protecting chastity. It's like treating cancer from chemotherapy. But fortunately, there is no reason why married couples can't overcome their misconceptions and inhibitions. We just need to make as great an effort making marriages great as we do protecting the chastity of our youth. And I think it would be easier to tell our youth that sex is worth waiting for if they could actually see indications of that in their parents' relationships. Parents could start by actually talking to each other and their kids about sex and doing it in a positive way, instead of making it sound shameful, dirty, or negative in any way. I don't care if I embarass my kids, I'm going to talk to them about how awesome it is.

  • Independent Henderson, NV
    Feb. 9, 2011 5:33 p.m.

    Krissy. I sure don't blame you, but you can't really blame others for rushing to get married just to have sex. You dealt with it your way, they dealt with it in theirs. Nobody is perfect.

  • Joggle Clearfield, UT
    Feb. 9, 2011 5:18 p.m.

    Everybody needs to judge this issue personally for themselves according to there own conscience and knowledge of self. What may be bad for one may not be bad for another. Premarital sex has both advantages and disadvantages. Chemistry is crucial to a marriage. I firmly believe if people are not satisfied sexually, it can cause problems in the relationship. Knowing that you like sex with a person is a sure sign that the relationship is more likely to last. Or, even just knowing that you or your partner enjoys sex in general is a good thing too. I am not saying that sex is the most important thing in a relationship; however, if the sex is not that great (or nonexistent) it could eventually lead to someone's needs getting satisfied elsewhere and that can lead to divorce. Why do you think sex therapy exists? Because it is THAT important to lasting relationships. I would want to know if my partner and I are sexually compatible before marriage than find out later after we've married that we are incompatible.

    I think there are too many possible variables plus it coming from a biased source to consider it very valid.

  • panamadesnews Lindon, UT
    Feb. 9, 2011 4:20 p.m.

    Charlie94312

    Have you read in the Bible where the religious leaders were going to stone a woman caught in the very of adultry (no mention whether she or the man involved were single or married, so it could have been fornication - single consenting persons having sexual relations). The Lord, asked about this said, "Let he who is wothout sin cast the first stone". Then, after everyone besides Himself and the woman had left, he told her, after He said he was not condemning her either, "Go and sin no more".
    Read 2Peter 1: 20-21. Only a prophet can interpret the scriptures. He called it a sin. We're not prophets, so how can we say it doesn't really mean what it says. IT MEANS WHAT IT SAYS! We shouldn't try to justify our or others' actions. When we kneel before our maker to be judged, what will he say when we say, "I didn't think it meant that". He will say, "Why didn't you listen to the prophets - I did send prophets to teach the people, to tell them of the consequences of their actions."

  • SJ Bobkins Gilbert, AZ
    Feb. 9, 2011 3:39 p.m.

    There's one huge problem too. Inexperienced LDS couples who have done little more than kiss end up on their wedding night having never discussed sex, nor do they have a good understanding of possible conflicts and expectations. One may have been told: "this is a non-no, while the others bishop claims it's OK ". There are many many areas both are ignorant in, and have no one they can talk to who has expertise in sex therapy. So they have this sealed hell, as they go through life. The churches divorce rate is 28.63%, I can safely say that 80% of the problems began as problems in the marriage bed, with that division all other conflicts became greater. I have never met as many people with so many self inflicted inhibitions and misunderstandings. You need a balance, to enlist everyone in a lame "Marriage class" that dares not enter into these areas of great hurt, rejection and unfullfillment is a sin. Why not teach sex, honestly and opening after the engagement?

  • krissy Sterling, VA
    Feb. 9, 2011 3:27 p.m.

    As someone who was raised LDS and "waited" for many years, I believed that it would help me have a happier marriage and that it was what God wanted me to do. I didn't count on not getting married. Nor did I count on the MANY failed relationships and years of frusteration and "temptation" I went through. I chose to become sexually active prior to marriage in my thirties. It was a good decision and actually helped this relationship become a marriage. Happily married now for 5+ years. I don't trust studies like this, because it discounts everyone out there whose relationships were/are good and included sex outside marriage. We did not "live together", but we certainly were intimate. I realize looking back that MANY of my previous "worthy, no sex" relationships did have a great deal of intimacy and sexual activity, but without choice and maturity. "Waiting" would never have fixed what was not there. I wish there could be a study exploring all of the LDS marriages where people got married, just to have sex. Sometimes there seems to be too much focus on "avoidance" and not enough on building a future.

  • Independent Henderson, NV
    Feb. 9, 2011 3:25 p.m.

    "I'm a firm believer that just being in love with somebody will make the sex good."

    Oh, if only that were true! Good sex requires some education and some trial and error too. Being in love will only get you so far without real communication.

    And while it does help if the couple knows each other for longer than a few months before getting married, doesn't the way a couple gets to know each other after marriage carry greater weight in the long run? What does it matter how long you dated before marriage if two commited people make the effort to love one another and take care of their marriage for years and years after the wedding?

  • Independent Henderson, NV
    Feb. 9, 2011 3:17 p.m.

    "There is some truth and common sense reason to abstain as it keeps the mind focused on the other persons values and character rather than the pleasures of sex which is only a small part of a happy marriage."

    Actually, sex is a HUGE part of marriage, and frankly, it deserves a lot more attention from LDS couples. I think it's wonderful that the church teaches abstinence before marriage, and I applaud the members of the church who do that, but unfortunately, abstinence before marriage far too often spills over into marriage. The perception that sex is just a "small part" of marriage is perpetuated, and the church is full of unhappy couples who do a great job of reading their scriptures, having FHE, and magnifying their callings, but have a husband/wife relationship that is all business. And it's too bad, because marriage can be so much more!

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Feb. 9, 2011 1:34 p.m.

    To "charlie91342 | 12:54 p.m." so that you can understand the scriptures that I am going to give you, you first need to understand the word "fornication". Fornication is defined as "voluntary sexual intercourse between persons not married to each other".

    Ok, the clearest scriptures can be found in the New Testament, there are some in the Old testament, but are more difficult to understand.

    In 1 Corinthians 6:18 it says "Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body." That does say "thou shalt not have sex before marriage", just with different words.

    Ephesians 5:3 "But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;"

    There are many more, just look up the word fornication in a King James version of the Bible.

    If you can't figure out a person's faults after dating them for a while, maybe you shouldn't get married because you are not letting your true selves out. If you can't be yourself while dating, how long can you last until you can't keep up the show?

  • charlie91342 Sylmar, CA
    Feb. 9, 2011 12:54 p.m.

    re - RedShirt | 11:34 a.m
    "there are multiple bible verses that deal with sex out of wedlock, you just have to go and find them."

    name some, or at least one. I bet it is subject to interpretation and doesn't say "thou shalt not have sex before marriage".

    as for the "test drive" comment, I was talking about living together to make sure you are compatible, not "test driving" sex. anyone that gets married without first living together is crazy. this is especially true of young people that live with their parents and then get married and move in together.

    marriage is just a peice of paper that provides some legal benefits, and is also our way of showing true love and commitment to the other person. only in religious circles does it mean more, especially in the mormon religion. I imagine the "studies" that you stated in your post were done by religious people, for religious people.

    at least if you live together for a while you know the other person's faults, and know you can accept them... forever.

  • Mom of 2 Eagle Mountain, UT
    Feb. 9, 2011 12:21 p.m.

    I think the "test drive" theory is ridiculous. I'm a firm believer that just being in love with somebody will make the sex good. You don't have to test drive your future spouse - you just have to love them.

    That said, I really don't care what adults do behind closed doors, whether they're married or not. I've known plenty of LDS marriages break up because the couple has known each other two weeks before getting engaged, so you can't say that people who live together before marriage corner the market on divorces.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Feb. 9, 2011 11:34 a.m.

    To "charlie91342 | 10:27 a.m." there are multiple bible verses that deal with sex out of wedlock, you just have to go and find them.

    As for your car analogy. If you test drive a car, does it become emotionally attached to you, and wonder if you are going to come over and test drive it again?

    Go and search for the studies that have been done that have found that when people live together before marriage, their marriage suffer.

  • charlie91342 Sylmar, CA
    Feb. 9, 2011 10:27 a.m.

    I'm still trying to figure out how abstinence and "no sex before marriage" became a religious rule. There is nothing in the bible about not having sex unless you are married.

    why is premarital sex considered a "sin" when the main religious book doesn't say that? just more "interpretation" from the religious authorities?

    sex and love are two different things. why does religion insist on taking the "fun" out of sex? and I do mean sex, not talking about love. once you are in love, obviously you only have sex with that person.

    shouldn't the issue be monogamy, not marriage? does it really matter if you are married, or is it really just that you should be monogamous and not be jumping from bed to bed?

    and does that apply only once you have found love? does it really apply to young people "sowing their oats" before finding a mate and settling down?

    seems like religion wants to control just about everything that is fun in life...

    re - Mc | 8:50 a.m

    do you or your mate test drive a car before you buy it? well, that's the same thing as living together before marriage.

  • Mc West Jordan, UT
    Feb. 9, 2011 8:50 a.m.

    Those who have engaged in premarital sex will defend it and those who haven't will defend this BYU study. The hope is to reach those who are young before they decide to have sex in hopes that they will see the many benefits to waiting.

    I've seen many marriages fail when the couple had lived together before marriage. They seem to blame the institution of marriage itself for the failure of their relationship instead of blaming their lack of commitment to each other before sex or other issues in their relationship.

  • My2Cents Kearns, UT
    Feb. 9, 2011 3:38 a.m.

    There is some truth and common sense reason to abstain as it keeps the mind focused on the other persons values and character rather than the pleasures of sex which is only a small part of a happy marriage. This decades old belief of being good in bed is important is merely a crutch and excuse to have sex. What happens outside of the bed is more important.

  • CHS 85 Sandy, UT
    Feb. 8, 2011 11:14 p.m.

    To be fair, how unbiased can this research be coming from a LDS-funded university?

  • JSB Sugar City, ID
    Feb. 8, 2011 10:30 p.m.

    This is nothing new. I learned the same stuff 50 years ago in the textbook of a sociology class I was taking at the university. The human species is a pair-bonding species and extramarital or promiscuous sex damages an individual's ability to form a strong pair bond. Learning that back then helped motivate me to be careful before I got married. It paid off then and still pays off now.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Feb. 8, 2011 8:16 p.m.

    This is a "no-brainer"! Its love versus lust! Those who are overcome with lust loose their ability to love another person. I have seen it hundreds of times. Those who laugh at this will mourn and the vast majority will end up divorced and children will be raised in single parent homes, guaranteed!

  • John C. C. Payson, UT
    Feb. 8, 2011 7:19 p.m.

    I have noticed that most popular magazines near check-out stands at the grocery store feature at least one article on the front cover relating to sex. This obsession is damaging to healthy relationships. It is especially degrading to women, as if superficial attraction and selfish appetites are more important than what really counts.