Immigration debate draws cheers, jeers from crowd

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  • Hawkeye79 Iowa City, IA
    Jan. 23, 2011 3:15 p.m.

    Candidate Jackson,

    And what do you believe will happen to the citizens of struggling foreign nations when those who desire a better life desert their countrymen instead of working to improve circumstances? By thinking through things a bit more, hopefully you'll realize that starvation, oppression and other social ills will only increase if our nation decides to drain others of only their productive citizens (as unproductive citizens will not have the means to travel to the U.S. in the first place).

    Screening by criminal background and leaving other countries to deal with a greater percentage of criminals will ultimately decrease the quality of life for more people than would possibly be helped by your suggested approach.

    Sadly, there are people who are so blinded by trying to help the few that they lose sight of the harm that they cause to the many. Short-sighted approaches, even those that are well-intentioned, are not what our country and world need.

  • Patrick Henry West Jordan, UT
    Jan. 23, 2011 9:00 a.m.

    Secure the borders. Check the papers of all current employees, aka REVERIFY all employees status to work in the USA. Punish the companies that continue to hire illegals. Illegals will go home once they are squeezed out of the job market, and trust me plenty of Americans will fill the job market void. It worked well in the 50's when we deported millions of them and amazingly our unemployment problem was solved. It will work today again.

  • SLars Provo, UT
    Jan. 23, 2011 1:10 a.m.

    Candidate Jackson, who is them? the 4.5 billion people in the world worse off than our neighbors to the south? We just open the doors and let those who want to come here, come? How will we feed or take care of them?

    The business labor economic cycle is very fragile. Too many workers, and our pay goes down, too many jobs and our pay goes up. Flood the labor market illegally with to many people, and the wages go way down, and the taxpayer gets stuck with higher taxes to pay more social services and unemployment benefits.

    We don't black list our poor, they are legal citizens. We should not punish them with people who take their jobs. They have families to support also.

    We have plenty of poor that needs help during this depression. We can't afford to take in citizens of other countries. Discrimination? No, illegal behavior that should be punished? yes.

    In Paul McCartney's song, the people used the front door and rang the door bell. They arrived the legal way, not through the back door uninvited.

  • Candidate Jackson Sandy, UT
    Jan. 23, 2011 12:08 a.m.

    A little advice from a Beatle would go a long ways. "Do me a favor, and open the door, and let 'em in."

    Cut the government regulation, all the quotas and years of waiting, and let 'em in. Here's wishing the federal government would allow them in legally. If it can be done, screen out criminals before they come, but let the rest in. Free entrance because we are a free country.

    Will they take our jobs because they are willing to work for less? It has ever been that those who are poor will work for less than those who have more. We don't blacklist the poor we already have from jobs. To do so would be to discriminate against the most needy, which doesn't make a lick of sense. And, while they are here, they also create jobs, buying food from us, buying clothes from us, and buying our entertainment.

    Are they a burden on our social welfare system? So are our own people. How much does Utah expend on the us? Why say one group is too much a burden while another is not? Discrimination? Perhaps it be so.

    -- John Jackson

  • StopTheMadness Mapleton, UT
    Jan. 22, 2011 9:51 p.m.

    Sanctimonious exhortations over a mistaken and manipulative concept of obedience to law in order to justify the unseemly mistreatment of others are woefully out of focus. Just sayin.

  • hispanic from AF American Fork, UT
    Jan. 22, 2011 9:24 p.m.

    Illegal immigration is such a huge, enormous, super-size problem that, in my opinion, will never be corrected nor solve. The only option left to Americans is to practice personal responsibility by not hiring illegal workers and boycotting those business that hire them.

  • JBrady Murray, Ut
    Jan. 22, 2011 8:55 p.m.

    Humane and compassionate treatment of all immigrants, does not mean we will stop enforcing laws, or accept their illegal behavior.

    Th Utah compact was written to confuse the populace by including illegal immigration with legal. Perhaps a more honest poll would ask a direct question: "Do you support illegal immigration".

  • Mark Batin Saint George, UT
    Jan. 22, 2011 8:46 p.m.

    We are always told that to enforce our laws is so inhumane, and yet Thousands of American Citizens as well as illegal aliens have died because our Government is to gutless to enforce the law. Tell me what is more inhumane?

    To not secure our borders and enforce our laws is like letting the family of 10 across the street knowing that 1 of them is a serial rapist and another is a serial murderer. We would not let this evil access to our family and yet our government allows this evil access to the citizens they swore to protect. This is Anarchy and it needs to be stopped.

    Sandstrom and Herrod are doing a great job and we need to vote anyone that is against their bills out of office.

  • Ajax Mapleton, UT
    Jan. 22, 2011 8:35 p.m.

    @C. Darwin: "...elected leaders better pay attention to the wishes of the majority instead of political minority cries for amnesty."

    Recent polling reported in the Salt Lake Tribune (Jan. 20, 2011) addresses the question of the majority will in Utah regarding the treatment of immigrants. Specifically, Utahns were asked of their support for the Utah Compact, subtitled "A Declaration of Five Principles to Guide Utah's Immigration Discussion". Clearly expressed among the Compact principles is the importance of a humane approach to immigration policy that, where merited, would in effect allow for a conditional amnesty.

    The Compact principles are in contrast to the purely punitive approach taken by the Sandstrom bill.

    So how did Utahns respond?

    Forty-nine (49) percent supported the Utah Compact; thirty-nine (39) percent opposed it.

    My hope also is that our elected officials honor the wishes of the majority of Utahns for the humane and compassionate treatment of all immigrants.

  • TRUTH Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 22, 2011 8:30 p.m.

    I don't see this as a 50-50 split concensus.....

    Everything I read here in comments and I hear on the street tells me that the Sandstrom Bill has the vast support of the clear majority of Utahns....

    Those who support Illegal Immigration...get out your wallet, you pay for it......and keep your compact hands out of my pocket

  • Phred Ogden, UT
    Jan. 22, 2011 8:22 p.m.

    Yesterday's AP story about the turmoil in Belgium (look for the story on beards) is a direct result of having a nation with two dominant languages. The southern half of the country speaks French while the northern half speaks Danish.

    A similar situation exists in Canada where Quebec wants to secede and become their own little country.

    In Israel you have a mix of Arabic and Hebrew speaking groups.

    Ukrane, the Balkin Nations, Ireland... The list goes on.

    Nations, for the most part, are usually defined by language. Anytime you try to have a country with two distinct groups of people, who do not share a common language, you also have divided loyalty, mistrust, animosity, and attempts to divide and/or conquer. When population density regionally reaches a point where there is little need for the immigrant to learn the language of the host nation, youre no longer a melting pot.

    If you talk to people in Mexico... if you get them drunk in a bar, theyll say were taking it back, sorry. Thats not an uncommon sentiment in Mexico, so why cant we take it seriously here? - Mickey Kaus

  • Spoc Ogden, UT
    Jan. 22, 2011 6:56 p.m.


    There are many decisions that must be made for minors by their parents. Minors, for example, cannot enter into a contract.

    If you look at citizenship as a contract between an individual and society, is a child capable of making such a contract? As a minor, they are probably not old enough to make such a decision. Likewise voting may be a privilege of citizenship but we do not allow minors to vote even though they are citizens.

    Parenthood also brings with it certain responsibilities. Just because you are being deported doesn't mean you can abandon your children, even though they have dual citizenship. You might be able to assign permanent guardianship to a legal relative who is a citizen here, but at no point in the future would they be allowed to sponsor their family members since the parents who left them behind are no longer their legal parents.

    No, give the kids a ride home with the parents and use the sale of property left behind to pay for the plane tickets.

  • JBrady Murray, Ut
    Jan. 22, 2011 6:09 p.m.

    @Tom, the sheep shearers were here on Visas.

    America has had it with the excuses.

  • C. Darwin Sandy, UT
    Jan. 22, 2011 6:03 p.m.

    Reading the comments on the illegal alien debate it is obvious what the citizens want. I think the elected leaders better pay attention to the wishes of the majority instead of political minority cries for amnesty. We are , after all, a democratic republic.

  • awsomeron1 Oahu, HI
    Jan. 22, 2011 5:56 p.m.

    Why! The need for Debate, being Illegal is guatemalaagainst the Law.

    The Soluation is to Deport Them.

    Deport them right on the edge of the Mexico, Guatemala Border.

    Those from other places, a 1 way ticket back, to where ever they came from.

    They are Illegal, that is against American Law, what part of that do people not get.

    I do not want to change the law that much regarding kids born in the U.S. from Illegal parents (usually the mother). However the Parents Need to be Deported and the kids need to go with them and when they are adults then they can come back. That or Adoption. Citizenship should not be granted because you have the ability to have a child.

  • JBrady Murray, Ut
    Jan. 22, 2011 5:54 p.m.

    Children brought here illegally have a chance to make things right between 18 and 18.5 years of age, by returning home and filling out the papers. Most choose to stay here illegally and become just as illegal as their parents.

    The venue was closing, people were being asked to leave the building, the Brown Berets refused, and instead tried to engage the security officer with a verbal confrontation.

    The video was up on youtube. Search the Brown Berets national website for information on how this militant group plans to overthrow the US government.

  • Teafortwo salt lake city, utah
    Jan. 22, 2011 5:27 p.m.

    It is unfortunate that those who favor the invasion of America by illegal foreign invaders continue to insist upon referring to those opposed to the invasion as racists. The reality is, America continues to welcome people of every imaginable racial and ethnic background who have chosen to follow the well-established "path to citizenship" that currently exists. There is absolutely no good reason to reward those people who have decided to bypass the existing, established process with amnesty of any kind.

  • TRUTH Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 22, 2011 5:22 p.m.

    The Church leaders are flat out wrong on this issue........and will lose a great deal of credibility when this issue is re-solved and all the illegals go home! Its just a matter of time....

  • OneMadGuy Salt Lake, UT
    Jan. 22, 2011 5:05 p.m.

    All these elected officials that refuse enforce our laws should be voted out of office (M. Shurtleff).

    "We might as well hold back the tide as do enforcement," (C. Bramble shame on you).

    "allowing people to stay after they have broken the law .. is an insult to millions of people around the world".

    It is also a BIG insult to the citizens who's tax dollars pay to educate the children of illegal aliens AND pay the salaries of the elected officials that refuse to enforce our laws.

    If the libs doesn't think the illegals should have to obey the law then I insist on the same treatment. I don't like the speeding laws. I don't like the concealed carry laws. I don't like the stupid rulings handed down by our corrupt judges.

    If we are going to have anarchy I might as well get my share of the spoils while we are going down.

  • Dan Walters La Quinta, CA
    Jan. 22, 2011 3:36 p.m.

    Utah will have to make a decision how it will stand on Illegal immigration. Weak enforcement policy will bear one kind of fruit and strict policy another. Weak policy will create a California Illegal Immigration scenario. Strict policy will create an appearance of intolerance but keep you from being overwhelmed and having your safety, your quality of life and your economy irreparably damaged. Utah its your choice and your future. California once stood at the crossroads with prop.187. We were robbed of our will by Gray Davis and an activist judge who purposely took four years to make her decision. Arizona stands at their crossroads now and the question is will the open borders political activists rob them of their will. You are at your own crossroad and will be called on to make a choice. California cried out for the country to hear our plight with prop.187 and no other state would listen. We recalled Gray Davis but the door had been left open and the damage had already been done. Arizona is bravely fighting for its very life. You will very soon be fighting for yours.

  • Hawkeye79 Iowa City, IA
    Jan. 22, 2011 2:42 p.m.

    Ajax, I don't think you understand the meaning of the word "insurrection," nor do you understand that article of faith if you believe if means people should never express political disagreement with current leaders. Likewise, your suggestion that supporters of amnesty have cornered the market of knowledge demonstrates a very narrow-minded approach to the issue.

    Christine, I have long been an advocate of how the Japanese deal with illegal immigrants whose children are born in Japan. The children are allowed to decide whether they want to remain in Japan or leave with their parents. In a recent case of a couple from the Phillipines, the parents were sad when their daughter chose to stay in Japan instead of remain with them, but they have nobody to blame but themselves. Their disregard for Japanese law resulted in the separation from their daughter. It was not the fault of the Japanese people.

  • theother Saratoga Springs, UT
    Jan. 22, 2011 2:38 p.m.

    Surrounding states are dealing with their illegal immigration problems and laughing at Utah for continuing to remain essentially a sanctuary state where illegal immigrants can access driver ID cards, get in-state tuition, benefit from vast welfare benefits and have their children housed, educated and fed by Utah taxpayers.
    This is not compassion, it is immoral.
    Creating this environment that persuades more families to risk the rape, human smuggling, dangers of traversing borders and even death to get to Utah is far from compassionate, far from humane. It is downright disgusting.
    The religious and other communities in Utah that THINK they are offering compassion by encouraging illegal immigration must understand what they create in risk to life, property, liberty and the very nature of civilization when they promote illegal immigration. Unwittingly they HARM the very children of God they mistakenly believe they are helping. Both the illegal immigrants and the legal citizens. EVERYONE looses when borders are not protected and carefully managed.

  • Janell Ventura, Ca
    Jan. 22, 2011 2:31 p.m.

    We don't need immigration reform...we need immigration ENFORCEMENT.

  • Ajax Mapleton, UT
    Jan. 22, 2011 2:17 p.m.

    Knowledgable observers generally agree that a workable and beneficial immigration policy without room for amnesty of any sort is not possible. To insist otherwise is to effectively close the door on any chance of meaningful immigration reform.

  • Ajax Mapleton, UT
    Jan. 22, 2011 2:14 p.m.

    Am I alone in seeing an ity bity problem with the constant clamor for being subject to kings, presidents, etc. and the thorough going insurrection by these same people against your president and mine, Barak Obama?

  • Ajax Mapleton, UT
    Jan. 22, 2011 1:58 p.m.

    Curiously, several of the provisions in Stephen Sandstrom's immigration bill seem to be targeted against the LDS Church, despite the claim of church exemption.

    At issue in the Sandstrom bill is to be able to prosecute anyone as a felon who 1) transports an undocumented immigrant over any distance and for almost any reason and 2) knowingly or otherwise encourages an undocumented immigrant to live in Utah.

    Would LDS missionaries be excluded? And what about Home Teachers and Visiting Teachers? Are they all exempted from Sandstrom's felony law by church affiliation? Could you be taken to court for giving an undocumented person a ride, say as a home teaching companion? Might a smile or a helping hand qualify as encouragement to live in Utah? Would members of a church congregation be guilty of a felony by association if they knowingly assist undocumented immigrants among them?

    The issue of undocumented Hispanic immigration is certainly complex, and a vigorous debate over solutions is expected. But not drawing the line on provisions that are so clearly unprincipled and ruthlessly oppressive--church exemption or not--threatens the human dignity and freedom of us all.

  • Casca Orleans, IN
    Jan. 22, 2011 1:37 p.m.

    When talking about spiraling taxes, when governors are looking for more revenue, they have not the backbone to explain that large portions of taxpayers money is being siphoned off to support birthright citizenship of babies, specifically in Arizona, California, Texas and New Mexico.The children of illegal alien parents are another astronomical cost for taxpayers. But then every state today is exposed to illegal immigrants being transported throughout our country. Once here the county hospitals are bombarded with new arrivals in the emergency rooms with obviously no insurance and placing the whole financial measure on taxpayers. Emergency rooms are inundated with illegal people with sore throats and carrying flue germs and not such things as appendicitis or serious injuries. Let me repeat these web-pages at Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons Volume 10 Number 1 Spring 2005 (the report on Illegal Aliens and American medicine) defines the issue as a monolithic concern for hospitals across the United States. Read this Health Care report and start spitting blood and bile.

  • Brer Rabbit Spanish Fork, UT
    Jan. 22, 2011 1:12 p.m.

    The following statement is Deseret News hyperbole. The audience was actually fairly quiet considering the issue. From the DesNews, "Depending which side spoke, multiple people in the crowd numbering nearly 700 would stand, cheer, boo, or jeer, despite the moderator's earlier plea to keep it civil and refrain from boisterous outbursts."

    The audience did spontaneously murmur and groan when Paul Mero, the president of the Sutherland Institute, said that those that supported enforcement were no different than those that supported Jim Crow Laws. I don't think that most of those in audience liked being referred to as bigots.

  • Teafortwo salt lake city, utah
    Jan. 22, 2011 1:01 p.m.

    Christine- Whether or not children born in this country to illegal, criminal invaders are citizens is debateable. What is not debateable, is the fact that children should NOT be allowed to benefit from the criminal activities of their parents. Do I have to explain why?

  • Phil Houston, TX
    Jan. 22, 2011 12:47 p.m.

    "Many good citizens have not read the constitution"
    I have read the constitution.
    No where in the constitution does it say that immigration
    is exclusively the right of the federal govt to control.
    In fact the word immigration is not even in the constitution.
    The word naturaization is in the constitution but it
    only gives the federal govt the exclusive right to grant citizenship.

  • Phil Houston, TX
    Jan. 22, 2011 12:38 p.m.

    If it is blatantly unconstutional for any body but the federal
    govt to enforce federal laws then local police should not
    interfere with bank roberies or drug trafficing.

  • Christine Orem, UT
    Jan. 22, 2011 12:35 p.m.

    These people came here because the jobs were waiting for them here. Employers were hiring them because they could not find other workers (Americans).

    The economy was doing great, unemployment was very low. We as a society (law enforcement, immigration, and consumers) turned a blind eye to this issue
    and freely used illegal immigrants services (in fast food, restaurants, schools, retailers, hospitals, hotels, construction, etc). Where were all those who now decry illegal immigrantion? Enjoying freely of their services.

    I'm all for securing the border. We have that right. But that's for now and the future. These families are already here. Their American children are already here.

    As a country we need to do the right thing. Throwing out of their own country MILLIONS of American children and deprive them of their rights and opportunities is wrong. Breaking up families and depriving these children of their parents and siblings is wrong.

    The illegal immigration issue is less about breaking a civil offense and more about doing the right thing, the MORAL thing.

  • Christine Orem, UT
    Jan. 22, 2011 12:33 p.m.

    The most important part of the debate are the millions of children of illegal immigrants who are American citizens. Kicking them out of their own country is wrong and immoral. They have the right to grow up in their own country, get free education and have access to all the oportunities that their country can offer them. Besides their country needs them, not only their talents and contributions but also their new blood. Who is going to pay for all of you who in 15-30 years will be retiring? The size of retired Americans will be much larger than the size of workers who will be paying for them. We want these kids and we definetly NEED them.

    Braking the law is wrong, even a civil offense. Braking a MORAL law is worse.

    What the Nazis did was legal. Segregation was legal. What the US founding fathers did was illegal. What Dr King did was illegal. What Rosa Parks did was illegal. On moral grounds we know who was right and who was wrong.

  • Carson Provo, UT
    Jan. 22, 2011 12:33 p.m.

    Paul Mero says "We have no authority or power to deport people". True, But we can dry up the jobs Illegals hold with mandatory E-Verify statewide. We can also cut off all freebies given to Illegals by the state. Wake up People flood your Legislator with calls and Emails or we are going to still be paying for Illegals. Let's put any Legislator who supports Illegals over Americans out of office. Speak now or things will remain the same!

  • Teafortwo salt lake city, utah
    Jan. 22, 2011 12:20 p.m.

    Yes, illegals are people. Yes, we must treat them humanely. But that being said, lets not pretend like they were dragged here, kicking & screaming, against their will. Nothing could be further from the truth. They came of their own free will and for their own benefit and they broke the law to do it.
    The fact they want "a better life" is not a legitimate excuse. Most people want a better life. Most people also understand that they do not have a right to acuire by illegal means those things that are difficult to acquire by legal means. And they certainly don't have a right to do it in a foreign country. All illegals must be sent home. Anything less will just encourage more illegal immigration.

  • wrz SLC, Utah
    Jan. 22, 2011 12:19 p.m.

    @Tom 9:12 a.m.:

    "This has been created by 40 years of not dealing with the problem of having jobs that need to be filled to expand the U.S. economy and not allowing enough individuals to enter legally."

    Not so. It has been created by imported workers staying after their visas run out. Fully forty percent of today's illegals overstay their visas.

    "...some people say that if we got rid of undocumented people unemployed Americans would take their jobs but there have not been many unemployed computer programmers willing to move their families to sparsely populated areas of Utah to shear sheep..."

    Very few fake documented immigrants shear sheep. They work in building trades and many other lines of work that unemployed computer programmers would gladly take. Especially when unemployment runs out and they need food for their families.

    For those who want to see the effects of uncontrolled immigration, watch 'Immigration Gumballs' in YouTube.

  • Neanderthal SLC, Utah
    Jan. 22, 2011 11:58 a.m.

    @DixieAggie 7:02 a.m.:

    "It is apparent that racism is rampant in Utah."

    You must be talking about State Senator Luz Robles.

    "I am Latino and I very much understand the rule of law."

    If you are in this country and not a citizen, you apparently don't understand the law well enough to obey it.

    "But it is not lawful for the state of Utah to create a law that lies in the purview of the Federal government."

    There are many federal laws that states are required to enforce/implement, medicare and intended medicaid come to mind.

    "To do so is an affront to the Founding Fathers and the Constitution itself."

    The founding fathers intended federal powers to be limited and that the states and the people retain most of the power. That's not happening.

    @When will Utah stop being a rebellious state?"

    When illegals leave and go home.

  • dferg Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 22, 2011 11:43 a.m.


    "It is apparent that racism is rampant in Utah".

    No, it is not apparent. Before flapping your gums about it, perhaps you should find out if their were any other groups loitering around (and loitering is illegal); if the ones that were asked to leave were the only ones doing it, that is the issue, not singling someone out for their "race" (you can't single someone out if they're the only ones).

    "But it is not lawful for the state of Utah to create a law that lies in the purview of the Federal government".

    Yes, the primary purview does lie with the federal government. But what recourse do we have when those tasked with enforcing it don't? Should we just ignore the problem completely? Don't individual States have the right to protect their citizenry?

    "It is blatantly unconstitutional for a state to enforce Federal law".

    Really? Where in the Constitution -specifically - is that outlined? Again, if the feds don't enforce their own laws, who will?

    "When will Utah stop being a rebellious state?"

    Rebellious? Are you serious? Are you going all the way back to the 1850's for references? Get real.

  • jim l West Jordan, UT
    Jan. 22, 2011 11:28 a.m.

    Mark S. came up to a scouting event a few years ago and gave a great speech about camelot and obeying the law. He ought to re-read his talk and put it into play. Illegals need to go home. We need to seal the border. If they continue to come across the border and use the system and suck up all the benefits we will go bankrupt and America will disappear.

  • hispanic from AF American Fork, UT
    Jan. 22, 2011 11:06 a.m.

    Good debate! Informative and civilized! The low point??? when two panelists introduced the 'Mormon' prophets quotations in an infantile and below-the-belt effort to makes us, LDS people, be ashamed for pushing for the implementation of the laws of the land! Imagine that!! It is, after all, commanded in the 12th Article of Faith. SUSTAINING THE LAW... it does not matter what the vague instructions 'du jour' are. A lawsless country will not benefit the illegals either. They fled those nations. Where will we all go next? China?

  • Mr. Bean SLC, Utah
    Jan. 22, 2011 11:04 a.m.

    @Gentile 6:43 a.m.:

    "It is a federal isssue."

    If so, I have an answer... since it's a federal issue, round up all illegals and bus them to the District of Columbia (Washington D.C.). That's federal property. States should have the right to control the property within the state and to decide who will cross state borders.

    "Utah can send some money to the federal govt. (instead being a welfare state) with a request that the feds do more in illegal immigration control."

    I think you've got it backwards. The federal government should be sending money to the states since illegals cost the states billions in education, welfare, and healthcare. law enforcement, etc. Furthermore the fed is doing nothing about illegal immigration (they need the Latino vote) so there is no need to send more tax money... to do nothing.

  • casual observer Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 22, 2011 10:59 a.m.

    My grandmother came to this country legally. If we circumvent the legal immigration policy for those here now, what do we do with the next wave of illegals? We might as well have open borders if we ignore our own laws.

  • Teafortwo salt lake city, utah
    Jan. 22, 2011 10:36 a.m.

    Illegal immigrants are criminals. Period. If they will not leave voluntarily, they should be tried for their crimes. Do not be confused by the rhetoric that they are just committing "little crimes". If you were caught doing the same things that illegals do on a regular basis, you would be in trouble at least and quite possibly sent to prison at worst. Amnesty is NOT a viable option. It was tried before and obviously failed. Had it been successful, we would not currently have 12,000,000 foreign criminals living in this country illegally.
    If we make the mistake of granting amnesty for a second time, we will undoubtedly send the message that our immigration laws are meaningless and our borders are open.....

  • watchman Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 22, 2011 10:32 a.m.

    The feds may be charged with enforcing these laws but the impacts of non-enforcement are felt right here in our communities and neighbourhoods.

    The longer we wait in protecting our citizens and the very integrity of our society, the more illegals will come and the larger the problem will become.

    It appears to me that the Sandstrom bill carries with it the same compassion and sensitivity to enforce illegal alien laws as laws that are enforced against illegal acts of citizens. This incorporates the intent of the so-called 'Compact'.

  • cvguy Lehi, Utah
    Jan. 22, 2011 10:30 a.m.

    I am expected to follow the law, why do a number of Mexicans think they are above the law? If I am a little short on cash maybe I should rob a bank and say I only did it for my family and expect I should not get punished. Maybe everyone should be able to pick a law to break and not get punished for it, why do illegal immigrants want the right to break laws.

  • Hawkeye79 Iowa City, IA
    Jan. 22, 2011 10:25 a.m.

    Should someone who often speeds be exempt from the legal consequences of speeding simply because they haven't been pulled over yet?

    Should someone who trespasses be allowed to remain on trespassed property simply because they have been there for a time?

    Should illegal immigrants be allowed to remain in a country they illegally entered simply because they have been there for a time?

    The children of illegal immigrants who were brought here have nobody to blame but their parents for their illegal status. Sadly, some parents choose to act selfishly without thinking about how their actions might adversely affect their family.

  • CJ Murray, UT
    Jan. 22, 2011 9:40 a.m.

    To DixieAggie,

    You say you are Latino and that it is "unconstitutional for a state to enforce federal law" and yet your appointed hero, Luz Robles, is trying to get the state to pass a law that overrides federal law and grants amnesty in the form of work permits to illegals. What do you actually believe in? Anything that allows your people to break the law and loot the state treasury? None of your arguments make any sense, you are on both sides of the debate whenever it suits your purposes. Quit trying to rationalize law breaking and tell your countrymen to show they deserve to be here by coming here legally in the first place.

  • ProudUtahn St. George, Utah
    Jan. 22, 2011 9:39 a.m.

    My wifes grandfather came to this country under immigration policies and became a citizen.
    1. he had to have a sponser 2. he had to list his destination in the United States where he was going. (in other words had to have a plan and a means to carry out that plan before comming here.)
    when he arrived he stopped speaking his native language (which I do not agree with) because he wanted be become American. I have no problem people speaking other languages, only they need to read, write and speak english. Illegal is Illegal send them and their kids back and make a clear policy how they can work towards comming back legally. With their employers and neighbors that do not want them to leave they should be able to find a sponser. The States should have their laws on immigration. fed can't and shouldn't be every where at one time. bring it down to communities and the issue will become more manageable.

  • JanSan Pocatello, ID
    Jan. 22, 2011 9:38 a.m.

    I for one am really tired of people like ESQUIRE saying that anyone who is tired of all the mess the illeagals cause in this country and really only prejudice.
    I truly feel for the people who were brought here as children or were born here and this is the only country that they know.
    But I am concerned about having a border that can be crossed so easily that thousands are doing it. If the Latin Americans can do it what is going to stop terrorist from doing it? How does having an open conduit for terrorist makeing our country safe?

    I also don't like the way they are using up our money... weather in be in welfare,schooling, social secuity, health care etc.. this should go to the leagal citiczens of this country not someone who is "breaking and entering' our country.

    Let me get this stright!!!! I DON'T CARE what the color of there skin is ! What I TRULY care about is if they are legal citizens or not.

  • kstep15 Logan, UT
    Jan. 22, 2011 9:32 a.m.

    I'll say it again. AZ is the backbone of our country. Illegal means ILLEGAL!! Utah should follow suit!!

  • Tom Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 22, 2011 9:12 a.m.

    I went to the debate last evening and it was very interesting. The boo's and cat calls were almost 100% from the anti-immigration side. There was some clapping from those who recognize that these people are real human beings and that they are in a hard position. This has been created by 40 years of not dealing with the problem of having jobs that need to be filled to expand the U.S. economy and not allowing enough individuals to enter legally. I know that some people say that if we got rid of undocumented people unemployed Americans would take their jobs but there have not been many unemployed computer programmers willing to move their families to sparsely populated areas of Utah to shear sheep, or harvest crops, or clean hotels. We need to fix the system, those who can not see this fact are blinded by emotions that have a negative nature. For those how can understand that these are real human beings and the vast majority are very good hard working people please step up and sign the Utah Compact.

  • JMT Springville, UT
    Jan. 22, 2011 9:07 a.m.

    For me the root of this is deeper. Ultimately we are fighting over two things: First, resources and second culture.

    Let's face it, America is a socialist nation. We have redistribution of wealth programs all over the place. Where we differ from Europe, China and the former Soviet Union is are pro-business environment and the enforcement of programs. Since we have been very open about business and property rights we have had a much stronger economy. The weaker the economy the more force is needed to comply with these programs. As our economy weakens we fight over resources more.

    The second is culture. In the old days it didn't matter where you came from, you would learn the language, keep your culture but over time become very much American. Now days we abhor this. We "celebrat" everything, to include cultures that fail. This reminds me of the native people in the Amazon basin. Like some science expirement liberals insist the outside world have no contact with them in some false notion that it is best to celebrat who they are. Almost like people in a zoo. Disturbs me.

    We are doing the same with immigrants.

  • joelwisch Albuquerque, NM
    Jan. 22, 2011 8:17 a.m.

    His opponents, however, countered that it is not Utah's job to take on immigration enforcement in the vacuum of a failed federal policy.
    How dramatic. It is not failed.. it was simply abused and underfunded. It can be enforced, and has been enforce in the past, and very successfully.

    Government is there to protect the people. Interior enforcement of the Immigration Law is the way to do that, and that the job of the State where the Federal Government refuses to do that. Sadly, the Federal Government used this ploy to get cheap workers and now the issue has to be sorted out, and until the States start the process.. show willingness.. it won't be done. So it is VITAL that Utah carry forward with its immigration efforts.

  • CJ Murray, UT
    Jan. 22, 2011 7:55 a.m.

    What a farce some of these people are. Luz Robles argues on the one hand that it isn't the state's job to enforce immigration laws and on the other hand she thinks it IS the state's job to grant permits to illegals to break the law and stay here and work.What a contradiction!
    She makes no sense at all and is totally out of her league intellectually. she is a representative of a group of law breaking criminals and has no right to be in the Utah legislature at all. I wonder how many of the people who voted for her did so legally and how many just showed up and voted.
    Shurtleff and other law enforcement hacks who show up at these events and argue that they shouldn't be forced to do their jobs are a disgrace to the state and should be shown the door. The bottom line is that the majority of voters in Utah want the law enforced and illegals sent home, all of these open borders advocates are irrelevant. Support Sandstrom and let's send a message.

  • jmfay denver, co
    Jan. 22, 2011 7:46 a.m.

    If the feds wont do the job; its up to the states because the states are the ones who pay the largest costs due to medicaid matches, jail costs, education, etc.

    Are our lawmakers going to do the job they were elected to do or just pass the buck to the feds who also arent doing it?

    We for one are fed up with all the budget cuts being made so we can pay for anchor babies and illegals. Past time to get rid of federal mandates like educating all kids regardless of status and paying for the cost of anchor babies with a law from 1868. 2 Supreme court rulings and or Congress clarifying the 14th would go a long way to solving this country and our states fiscal problems. You know they are not going to rule the wrong way due to the current makeup.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Jan. 22, 2011 7:20 a.m.

    Federal authorities are vigorously enforcing the law, more under the Obama Administration than ever before. The problem is huge. one of the biggest problems is that U.S. businesses like the cheap labor and are creating opportunities for illegal aliens. Look at yourself. But let me go out on a limb, because it will be a pretty safe limb, anti-immigrant people would not like aliens who have a different skin color and accent/language even if they were here legally. You can interpret that any way you like and take it to the bank.

  • mohokat Ogden, UT
    Jan. 22, 2011 7:11 a.m.

    I hope the lawmakers do not wuss out. It is time to get tough on the illegals. They will self deport if it is uncomfortable to be here. What does it take for these pinheads to define illegal? Sutherland is only looking out for business. Cheap labor at the rest of our expense. I need cheap gas for my business. Should the rest of you pay for me to have cheap gas? Same old Same old

  • DixieAggie St.George, Utah
    Jan. 22, 2011 7:02 a.m.

    Several latino men were asked to leave just for mingling? It is apparent that racism is rampant in Utah. I am Latino and I very much understand the rule of law. But it is not lawful for the state of Utah to create a law that lies in the purview of the Federal government. It is blatantly unconstitutional for a state to enforce Federal law. To do so is an affront to the Founding Fathers and the Constitution itself. When will Utah stop being a rebellious state?

  • stevo1 Linden, MI
    Jan. 22, 2011 6:52 a.m.

    Our Government, has allowed the invasion of 30 million criminals in direct violation of Article IV, Section IV of our Constitution. they force American tax payers to pay Billions to provide Welfare, Prison cells, Educate the invaders children, free medical care,massive document fraud, & are destroying our schools, hospitals, communities, culture while Robbing, Raping, Killing & Assaulting American Citizens WAKE UP PEOPLE!
    obama and holder need to be IMPEACHED! for not upholding the oath of office they swore to defend the Constitution! If these clowns were to do their job, this would all be a Moot point!
    Anchor babies and their criminal parents go, period, and cut the phony tears, you knew you were breaking the law when you crossed the border.

    shut down any business hiring illegal labor and confiscate all property belonging to the owner. Property will be sold at auction and the proceeds to pay for the massive deportation. Oh and owners go to jail.
    Got a better idea? Lets hear it!

  • Gentile brookings, SD
    Jan. 22, 2011 6:43 a.m.

    It is a federal isssue. Apparently many good citizens have not read the Constitution. Utah can send some money to the federal govt. (instead being a welfare state) with a request that the feds do more in illegal immigration control.
    If I paid taxes in Utah to the Utah govt. I would be screaming, "Don't you dare do that!" I want my money for state appropriate activities, paying for better schools and such. If one has a problem with the fed. govt. and its policies and actions, then one tells one's fed. reps. to push it through Congress and convince the President of your case.

    Sounds interesting, energizing everyone to watch out for those illegals, when we should be watching out for the collusion between big business and big state govt. and the church.

  • Doug10 Roosevelt, UT
    Jan. 22, 2011 6:08 a.m.

    It makes little sense to ask outlaws how the laws should be upheld. That would be similar to asking the inmates how a prison should be run.

    People were crying and hollering at Utah's last execution but it did not change the law..or the outcome.

  • c00kster Provo, Utah
    Jan. 22, 2011 5:42 a.m.

    I find it interesting that Daniel Arguleta made such a fuss(I watched his video of the incident. "Don't touch me" with a nod to MC Hammer.) about being asked to leave private property. So, the property owners ask someone to leave and they put up a fuss, despite the fact that to remain there would have been a crime? (Trespassing.) Why does this sound familiar? Oh reminds me of the illegal aliens and their sobsisters putting up a fuss about being asked to leave the United States.

    Throw them out and send their anchor babies with them AND heavily fine or imprison their employers who looked the other way. (The sword cuts both ways.) Let them follow the proper path to legal immigration and work hard to fix the system so our great land can accept millions of our downtrodden neighbors in an orderly fashion.

    Let market forces determine what a fair wage is once the illegals are gone.

  • JBrady Murray, Ut
    Jan. 22, 2011 3:36 a.m.

    People are asked to leave venues on private property all the time after the event has ended.

  • Janell Ventura, Ca
    Jan. 22, 2011 1:47 a.m.

    When Luz Robles ran for office, she didn't have illegal immigration as one of her platforms. Now she seems to be only focusing on one issue...any form of amnesty for illegal immigrants.
    She needs to go.