Rebel you are almost guaranteeing a democratic seat in the SL district. The
repubs in the legislature would be crazy to allow that to happen. I am not
saying Southern utah doesnt get a seat but the salt lake valley will be split at
least three ways.
Give Southern Utah a seat, and let Salt Lake have its own seat, without
including the rural. That's the best solution.
Grover:Not to bicker, but you're wrong on your statewide race
number. Rampton (D) won in '72, so obviously got the majority there. Matheson
(D) won in '76 and '80 again had to get the majority.Conversely,
Stewart Hanson (D) lost the '92 Governor's race with 23% of the total vote. In
'08 Springmeyer (D) came in South of 20%. I think Utah votes more for the
candidate in many instances than people want to admit. I personally
hope they carve it up so that we get a slim majority Republican in all four
To Tom in CA: Not to worry about your financial problems. Your new governor,
Jerry Brown, will step in and do to you what Obama has done to the rest of
us.Get your check book out and get ready to pay more than your
"Consider" this: I have participated in Utah elections since the 70's
and I cannot remember a single election where the Democrat has had more than 39%
in a Statewide election. More significantly, I can't remember a single time
where they have polled less than 30%. This leaves two choices for
the majority party. One would be to try to surgically carve up the four
districts to improve the chance of electing a Republican in all four. The other
would be to carve out a "safe" Democratic seat so that the other
districts would only have a fight in primary.The legislature has
chosen the second path when setting districts for themselves. This past election
showed that very few seats were closely contested. The few Democrats that won
(22%) all won by huge majorities which is a strange result in a State with so
many Republicans. Anyone who thinks four safe Republican seats are
possible when roughly a third of the State votes Democratic is smoking more than
XelaDave whines about the high rate of incumbent retention (@10:11am Dec 21) and
also praises Iowa for having the most competitive elections in the last 20 years
thanks to their particular redistricting model (@11:00 am Dec 21). XelaDave
has defined competitive districts as being within a 5% margin of victory.Ive tracked Iowa Congressional elections from the 1980's, so lets look
at some facts for the last 10 election cycles (20 years):10 election
cycles X 5 districts = 50 Congressional electionsNumber of
incumbents who were defeated by non-incumbent challengers: 2 1994 Greg
Ganske (R) over Neal Smith (D) 2006 Dave Loebsack (D) over Jim Leach
(R)Thats a 96% success rate for the incumbents in Iowa. Most of
the turnover is due to incumbents not seeking re-election.Over this
same period there were only 6 contests within a 5% margin of victory (12% of
contests).In at least half of the six close contests, the closeness
of the election had more to do with the partisan swing of the national mood than
because of the way the districts were drawn.My point? The
brilliance of Iowa redistricting is overblown.
Why do we have so many people who choose to live in Utah and then spend so much
time complaining about local culture? Do some people just like to be miserable?
I'm not a "love it or leave it" kind of guy. But neither
do I believe in being miserable. I've lived coast to coast in this nation. It
is a big, beautiful, diverse nation. And in liberal areas, nobody gives a rat's
behind about what the minority conservatives think. In such areas I
would face heavy prison time just for owning, much less carrying my gun. How
many people have gone to prison in Utah because we define marriage as one man
and one women, or because we tax booze a little heavier than in Nevada?Within broad limits, majorities do rule in US politics. The majority of
Utahns do not want this State to look like NY, or Nevada, or Cali, or
Massachusetts. So it isn't going to.If you be happy despite not
being the political majority, cool. If not, stop complaining and either
convince the majority to accept your views, or find someplace where your views
are the majority.
If Utah moves any further to the right; the state is serious jeopardy off
"falling off the map". The only way to get back up will be
to climb back up the left side.
The new district boundaries will do exactly what they are intended to do - keep
those in power in power. Utahns were somehow able to differentiate between the
evils of having one party in power in Washington while living in a one power
state. The more I study politics in Utah, the more it appears to mimic politics
in the Soviet Union in the middle of the last century, or in Germany in the
1930's. You vote for the party in power, or you are wasting your vote. The
arrogance and conceit of those in the party in power are inconceivable. There
is actually more evidence of evolution in Utah than there is of a democratic
process. I am looking for a bill in an upcoming legislative session banning the
creation or continued existence of any political party that does not begin with
an "R" and end with "epublican".
Outside Salt Lake county, the most democratic county in the state is Carbon
County. Both counties currently dominate the second district. Conservative
poster child, Jason Chaffetz (I am still mad he missed that field goal), lives
in the current second district but ran in the third. Why? Because he knew he
couldn't win in the Democratic leaning Second district against an incumbent like
Matheson.Look for the legislature to redistrict so Carbon is split
off and put with St. George and Ceadar City. and more of Utah county is put in
Matheson's district. Look for Matheson to run for Senator as he sees
a greater opportunity running state wide rather than in a gerrymandered
district. He will campaign on being forced out of his district and Utah needing
more diverse representation. Matheson, I think, would beat Hatch and most other
Repubs in a state wide race. The only way he doesn't win is if Chaffetz runs as
the republican candidate, even then it will be close.At the end of
the day, all representative districts will be held by Republicans. Arguing about gerrymandering is a mute point and useless exercise. The above
is what will happen.
Wow, I see so many libs whining, why? You have had two full years with a stacked
D.C. to fix things, (change you can believe in) and all your party still can do
is blame the GOP for being the party of no????? Yet you had the majorities in
everything? Its a wake up call to everyone, especially the Utah libs who are in
such denial, that real change that actually matters in the long run is near at
hand, either embrace or file papers for Chinese or Cuban citizenship-the time is
now due to the major importance
Good luck to all the would be candidates who will run to the right of right.
Just wait until you have some diversity in the Congress, instead of the arrogant
abuse of power you weild in the Utah legislature. And this coming from a
Republican. In my view you have left the grand old party and become
uncompromising radical ideologues, who are incapable of listening and learning
because you already know it all. Can't wait to see what you get done in
Washington. Good bye to all that power you wield so arrogantly.
This does make Republicans happy. Is there one single Democrat alive and
breathing that thinks redistricting in heavily populated Democratic areas like
California or New Jersey wouldn't try just a tinsy-winsy bit of gerrymandering
to favor their party?What's good for the goose is good for the
Congratulations Utah for your sanctuary policies brought in all those illegals
that helped you gain seats. If it were not for illegals we would have shrunk our
population like everyone else. But, oh no not only did you allow them in, you
allowed them to take our jobs and our money to support their anchor children and
imbed themselves into our society and gave them money to drive Escalades.
The word gerrymander (originally written Gerry-mander) was used for the first
time in the Boston Gazette newspaper on March 26, 1812. The word was created in
reaction to a redrawing of Massachusetts state senate election districts under
the then governor Elbridge Gerry (pronounced /ˈɡɛri/;
17441814). In 1812, Governor Gerry signed a bill that redistricted Massachusetts
to benefit his Democratic-Republican Party. When mapped, one of the contorted
districts in the Boston area was said to resemble the shape of a salamander. The
exact author of the term gerrymander may never be definitively established.Gerrymandering is almost as old as our country and will be around
probably till the end of this great nation. I find it interesting that the
party out of power is always the one who complains.Stop
@BAnd Chaffetz and Bishop have accomplished exactly what - a lot of
bluster and nothing else. Talk about a delegation that has been absolutely
worthless. The rest of the country is in the year 2010, Bishop is
stuck in 1861 and Chaffetz has waged war on public employees to save .3% of the
deficit. Wow, I'm impressed.
Hey CHS 85Maybe you don't remember what happened last spring when
conservatives took a look at the worst congress in history and took action to
remove one of the problems. Bob Bennett, as well as the establishment, was
shocked to have lost before he even got to the primary. Compare that to the
voters of Mass. who kept the same senator for nearly 50 years.As far
as the other members of Utah's congressional delegation: Hatch is also on the
hot-seat with conservatives. Chaffetz is still new. Bishop has been there long
enough and Matheson is going bye bye soon. My guess is that after the next
election, only Chaffetz and Bishop will remain out of 5 you mentioned. That is
change we can believe in.
dear jmt utah not gerrymandered? the liberal sorry i mean conserative wall
street journal called utah one of the worst gerrymandered states in 2000.
@Naked TruthIn local politics (I realize this is a national seat),
the conservatives have absolute domination. Their agenda of state guns, message
bills, keeping education spending the lowest in the US, and control of every
"moral" aspect of our lives is rammed down our throats every year.
Their congressional leaders both resigned last year, yet they
continue to have absolute domination in Utah. I guess a couple of bad apples
don't ruin the whole bunch, right? If your minority party
candidates can't get anything done, why do you keep voting for them? Isn't
their job to get things done?
Partisan finger pointing is EXACTLY what both parties want. Reading this message
board confirms that you have all fallen for it. PT Barnum was right.
Don't burst your phony bubble Utah, Florida will be the "LARGEST"
swing State on the planet also. We are still #1. Why try harder?. We got more
extra seats in Congress, that it'll make your bored heads spin off. Because
there is a Santa, and we are more smarter here, ys think?.
When Democrats do it, it's called gerrymandering. When Republicans do it, it's
called reasonable, rational, representative, responsible government.
CHS 85,Uneducated, hick conservatism, huh? Isn't you that
illustrates your lack of education in trying to lump the 4 GOP Utah Congressmen
as being part of the ineptitude of the current Congress? You clearly don't
understand how a minority in the House or Senate can do very little to enact
law, particulary with the advantage the Democrats currently have in both houses
With an approval rating in the teens, Congress right now is about as popular as
Julian Assange at the State Department's Christmas Party or Sarah Palin at The
Nation's editorial meeting, or President Obama at a Federalist Society
convention. This Congress, which likely will come to a close this week,
accomplished more, legislatively, than any other Congress since the 1960s (the
Great Society) or the 1930s (the New Deal). Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., released
his annual "Wastebook:, discussing 100 spending projects that squandered
$11.5 billion of public money this year. The examples include $1.8 million spent
on gathering and displaying historic Las Vegas casino signs and $165,000 given
to the University of California at Santa Cruz to help its library digitize its
collection of materials from the Grateful Dead rock band. During these
difficult times when families are struggling to make ends meet, the federal
government can best assist hard-working Americans by keeping their taxes low and
not burdening them with higher debt. Congress is like Jay Leno saying "It
has been raining hard here in Los Angeles. We have gotten so much water, illegal
immigrants are literally coming in waves."
Those who claim Utah's 2nd congressional district (currently held by Rep
Matheson (D)) is gerrymandered are forgetting two little facts.1-Matheson has continued to hold the seat quite handily.2-Neither
Matheson nor the Democrat party in Utah nor anyone else even filed a single
lawsuit attempting to challenge Utah's 2000 redistricting plan. Not a single
suit in federal court even filed.So whatever the WSJ, or local
commentators may want to opine on the subject, those who really know the
difference between a legit district with legit reasons and partisan (or racial
or other) gerrymandering were not willing to spend any money to even challenge
this district's boundaries.And for anyone to claim Utah's 2nd is
among the top 2 has never looked to Illinois or Cali. There are three districts
there that put Utah's 2nd CD to shame.Democrats are a minority in
Utah as the GOP once was. Political realities will reflect that until the
Democrats appeal to a majority of voters. It would take gerrymandering and
other unethical conduct for the minority party not to lose most battles.People need to deal with reality.
@Anonymous Infinity"We have had all this liberalism jammed down
our throats"Perhaps there are those of us in Utah who are tired
of all the uneducated hick conservativsm jammed down our throats.
You must take a look at the map of the Luis Gutierrez district in Illinois.It is the 4th district.It looks like a pair of pliers! The beauty of it
is that it is 74.5% Hispanic. How weird is that? Cook County is 19.9% Hispanic.
Chicago is 28.1%THAT'S gerrymandering, folks! Utah politicians are
re: Naked Truth | 12:58 p.m. Dec. 21, 2010 **You're up in the night
if you believe that the Wall Street Journal "has never been accused of
being a liberal paper".**They now are owned by Rupert Murdoch
and on the side of the angels so its irrelevant (note the sarcasm)."What are you going to say next? That Keith Olbermann and Rush Limbaugh
are best friends?"Why no that would be BillO & KO. Again,
And we didnt' have to get the 4th seat as a countermeasure for a DC seat! I kept
telling people to just wait until after the 2010 census and we'll get that 4th
seat without having DC get a sure-to-be democratic seat.
XelaDave,You're up in the night if you believe that the Wall Street
Journal "has never been accused of being a liberal paper".What are you going to say next? That Keith Olbermann and Rush Limbaugh are
Glad we are getting another seat in Congress. Please pull Lehi away from
Matheson. I'd like to be represented by someone that shares my views. Really
glad that my state reps are those that share my views and will redistrict this
state so that a state that votes over 60% Republican can rid itself of Dems that
pretend to be Conservatives. Please oh please.
CHS 85We have the worst congresses in recent history because of
people like Pelosi, Reid and their liberal minons, including the mainstream
media who egg them on.We have had all this liberalism jammed down
our throats especially after the electorate sent the message to stop it in this
so-called lame duck session following the election. This is appalling.The
republicans did not do this after the democrats took over the Senate and the
House following the 2006 election. You liberals are all alike.
The Wall St Journal which has never been accused of being a liberal paper
declared Utah and specifically the 3rd Dist. the 2nd most gerrymandered distict
in the country- Ill. has the number one (17th to be exact)- so to claim that
Utah is not gerrymandered is simply to ignore the percetption that is clealry
had of the state- and even if you do not like that look at the map and try and
justify the lines on anything other than gerrymandering- good luck
No matter the party that will benefit it's about time this happened!
I can't believe some of you are serious. After looking at Matheson's
bio, he differs very little from "the norm" in Zion.He IMO
will be the only reasonable person representing Utah in the next Congress. Its a travesty (sarcasm) that he represents Utah's "most
liberal" district where only **about 70%** voted for W in 2004. I saw very little (ontheissues dot org) that states he is Nancy's lapdog. He
won't support Pelosi as Minority leader which speaks volumes.
It's about time we are better represented at the Federal level for this
state.God help us if more people decide the CA style of politics is
the way to go. WE NEED more conservatives in every politcal party. WE NEED
conservatives to stand up and speak up. No longer should they be silenced by the
radical left, that have paralyzed this nation and hidden the city on the
hill.The United States is the greatest nation in the world. There is
nothing wrong in being the greatest. I don't see other nations contributing to
humanity, protecting the weak, defending free people, and creating democracy and
liberating people so they can make their own decisions.What other
nation in the history of the world has done this?
That's too bad. We do not need more conservative extremists in the house. We
Eliot | 9:49 a.m. Dec. 21, 2010 Santaquin, UT To your comment.
It's nothing different from what happens in democrat controlled states. Any
party with that advantage will use their advantage.Just look at what
the democrats have done. They used their majority and power to force their
agenda down everyones throat, whether they wanted it or not. Is that fair?So politics isn't fair. Move to a blue state if that is what you want.
Or as can be seen over the past ten years, people are fleeing the blue states.
Why would soo many people flee the democrat agenda? Probably because it's not
helping them one bit.
@Alex 9:37Oh, extremely happy. And, oh, we here in CA
could use some massive amounts of conservative politics (note: I did not say
Republican) - how else will we overcome $50 Billion in debt here??? The (D) way
of governing has proven to be a complete total disaster with a (D).
Wow...even more states where the residents can be counted on to vote AGAINST
their own interests (and the interest of the American people as a whole)! The
ultra-super-rich can stay in their walled battlements while cities, towns,
counties and states don't have the resources to maintain the infrastructure.
OK, the ultra-super-rich may have to endure bumpy rides in their limousines, but
it's a small price to pay for aggrandizing to themselves even more than the
Vanderbilts and Rockefellers ever dreamed possible.
Utah gains one seat and Missouri loses a seat. No one sees the irony there?
@CatsDidn't Utah have four Republicans and one Democrat in the
"worst congress in history?" What does that say about Chaffetz,
Bishop, Matheson, Hatch, and Bennett? Are they all lumped into the "worst
congress in history?" Or do they get a pass because they (except Matheson)
have a (R) after their names?
Yes, Cats, because we all know that the sainted Republicans are as pure as new
fallen snow, and there is no corruption or monkey business in a one party state
of either persuasion...cough, cough.
Utah is NOT gerrymandered. This is nothing but politcal tripe. There are 4
Democrat strong holds in the State, Matheson gets three of them: Salt Lake City,
Park City and Price. He doesn't get Tooloe because that would not even come
close to working.If you want to see gerrymandering look in other
states. The claims that Utah were gerrymandered were pushed by Jim Hansen
because he lost his beloved fishing spot in St George back in 2001. Next subject please.
Theoretically, each representative will be representing about 700,000 people. Do
you feel that one person can represent the interests of 700,000? I don't, and I
don't think the founders did either. The federal government is out of touch, and
it's impossible for them to be in touch with these numbers. This country is too
big and too diverse to be governed by one national government in its present
scope and strength. Adherence to the doctrine of reserved powers would diffuse
the contention and ensure our survival as one nation. Shifting the number of
representatives from one state to another is not enough anymore to adequately
represent the many diverse interests of such a large population. It's one size
fits all, Wal-Mart government that represents nobody in its effort to represent
everybody. If issues of social welfare and education were debated at the state
and community levels, instead of the national level, we would all have a much
better chance of having our interests represented. It's simple math.
Yes!!!!!!This will give Utah and other conservative states more
seats as well as more electoral votes. This is bad news for the Democrats and
Obama.However, the real bad news for the Dems is that the people are
now on to them. They have really blown it in what the Wall Street Journal has
called the worst congress in history.
A Gerrymandering we will go. A Gerrymandering we will go. Hi Ho the derry - o,
a gerrymandering we will go. A balanced government instead of an
unbalanced government is the only way. Thank you Mr. Matheson, your service was
great for this state.Remember Utah Legislature, are you honest in
your dealings with your fellow men?
Eliot- Mass gerrymanders with the best of them- not sure where you got that one
other than expressing your NE bias- lets looks at Iowa (they do pick our next
Pres. for us afterall- or is someone going to argue the Utah primary matters?)-
so Iowa about 20 years ago passed a measure that required all districts to
follow county lines or natural boundaries- since then they have had the most
competative elections (margin of victory less than 5%) overall in the US and
have some of the lowest cynicism scores in the country as well- just saying- but
of course we here in Utah know better
I am proud to have been one of the Census takers this past Spring. One of the
bits of information I used to explain the purpose of the Census, besides the
fact that it is mandated by law, is the importance of having an accurate count
so that we can have that 4th seat in Congress that we should have had 10 years
ago. I also have to agree somewhat with GWB above about finding a way to have
the rural areas of the state better represented. I live in a rural area, and
Matheson is our (not) representative. Rob Bishop has been more accessible and
more helpful to us here than our own Representative.Anyway, I'm glad
our hard work going door to door has paid off in the numbers game. When will an
election for the new representative be held? I know new divisions have to be
Eliot- (Mass gerrymanders like crazy- and ohhh that never hurt Mr. Romney) look
at Iowa (we do rely on them to decide who our next Pres. will be afterall- or
are you arguing the Utah primary matters?)- they adopted a redistricting model
20 years ago that follows county and natural boundaries and have had the most
competative elctions (less than 5% victory margins) in the country since then
and have some of the lowest political cynicism scores in the country as well-
just saying my friend
Rod: We have the same name, and Eliot Matheson has probably been the worst
Congressman just for the fact of his liberal voting record (93% to the dems) and
that he flat out lies about it. Saying "independent" I guess he is
Bernie Sanders Independent.
This should make EVERYONE happy who values representative government. Only rank
partisans who hate the idea of their political opponents having voice are upset
at Utah or other conservative areas gaining the seats to which they are
entitled.As far as redistricting I have two observations. 1-Democrat controlled States gerrymander so as to make Utahns look like a
bunch of pikers. The Illinois 4th and 17th and Cali 34th come to mind. 2-There are only two rational, possible ways to draw congressional
districts in a State like Utah. One is to have a single rural
district that covers most of the State, and then 3 urban districts. Nevada has
used this model for the last 10 years.The other is to split the
urban areas and have every district include both urban and rural voices. Utah
has done this.There are both partisan/gerrymander and very
legitimate reasons to support both methods. On which a person chooses to focus
probably depends a lot on whose ox is being gored.But if you don't
like how the legislature draws congressional districts, elect different
2,770,765 is the apportionment number for Utah to decide we get 4 congressional
districts and 2,763,885 is the number of people in the state for redistricting
with 6,880 people overseas not counted for redistricting. 2,784,572 was the 2009
US Census estimate.
Divide Salt Lake four ways now...YIPEE! Even more cross-eyed Tea Party people
representing us. Back to the early 1900s we go!
I agree. No more gerrymandering! Utah should follow the example of the
Commonwealth of Massachusetts and... oh, wait... well maybe not.
The question is actually whether they can split enough of Matheson's Dem leaning
areas of his district off and join them into a strong Republican district
without allowing a chance for him to get enough independent voters to win.What they should really do is make 1 district in Utah that is composed
of all the rural areas so that there is a rural congressperson who can deal with
issues that affect rural Utah. That way the rural people wouldn't get short
shrift from the urban/suburban congresspeople.
Go gerrymandering- and we wonder why American voters are cynical- you want real
government reform then have competative races for the house- how do you get
this- competative districts-otherwise you get safe seats and career politicians-
that is why average house retention over the past 5 congresses has been 93%-
ohhhh we knocked it out of the park this time with only 81% retention- show me
anything where you can have a guranteed 81% return- and we wonder why elected
officials do not listen- gerrymander away but please do not turn around and
decry career ploitcians later in safe seats that never have to worry about
re-election- you get what you pay for
We would have gotten the 4th seat even with 300,000 fewer people. We would have
needed over 400,000 more people to get a 5th seat.
It certainly does make me happy. Congrats Utah, we now have a more powerful
voice on important national issues! Great news.
What this means is that our Republican legislature will be able to divide the
few Democratic voters in the state between four districts instead of three.
Thanks for your service Mr. Matheson--you had a very impressive run.
This ought to make Republicans happy.