Reactions mixed on immigrant reform plan

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  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    Dec. 4, 2010 1:45 p.m.

    Its true we have 10% unemployment, but I don't see Americans lining up at slaughter houses, or dairy farms, and in the summer I don't see Americans lining up to pick crops. We need these people.

    Not only do most take jobs we don't want, they also create jobs we do want every time they buy a car, or groceries or electricity or gas, or clothes etc. etc.

    According to what I've read, they also commit less crime that the population in general. Getting rid of these people amounts to getting rid of the goose that lays the golden egg.

    If you don't agree, then go get a job milking cows, picking crops, working at a slaughter house and encourage your children to do the same.

    And while you are at it, quit complaining about amnesty. Whenever you are offered a warning ticket for speeding you don't refuse it, instead you gladly accept it then you get on your cell phone to talk radio and complain about amnesty and the need to respect and obey the law.

  • DavidNichols Gilbert, AZ
    Dec. 4, 2010 1:13 p.m.

    To those saying "No Amnesty", even to the hard working Christian parents of our own "Legal Citizen Children",that have been here and part of us for nearly thirty years, I can only hope your maker allows you a little "Amnesty"?

    I fear you will need some.

    "Let he who is with out sin cast the first stone."

  • DavidNichols Gilbert, AZ
    Dec. 4, 2010 8:15 a.m.

    A very wise 1840's French Historian said of America; "America is great because it is good, when it ceases to be good, it ceases to be great."

    Fixing America's Economy is truly that simple.

    Every Bail Out, Stimulus, Cash for Clunkers, Stimulus, Bail Out, Home Mortgage Incentive Program, Ect., has occurred since The January 2008 Start of Deportation/Incarceration of America's Hardest, most Devoted Workers. (Yes Immigrants.)

    The Hard Labor Immigrants gladly did for America supported all other jobs.

    Many thousands of them ripped away from their "Legal Citizen Children."

    What would Jesus do?

    Choose the right?

    What is the meaning of L.D.S.?

    To: Good and Brotherhood, from sea to shining sea.

  • patriotandmore Spanish Fork, UT
    Dec. 4, 2010 6:03 a.m.

    Here's a novel idea: Why not just enforce the existing laws?

  • Jazz Bass Man Wellsville, Utah
    Dec. 3, 2010 8:29 a.m.

    The people of Utah need to make their voices heard that we support Mr. Sandstrom's bill, and we overwhelmingly REJECT anything that legimitizes or legalizes the illegals being here.

    Dec. 2, 2010 8:19 p.m.

    @Curmudgeon, our government sets the green card allotment. They use a complex formula that also includes our unemployment numbers. More unemployment, less green cards (last year was an exception)

    Visas are given out when a business needs help and cannot find an American to take a job. (badly abused)

    Our quotas are based on the supply of available jobs, not by the demand of foreign citizens.

    So increasing the numbers is not an option. Removing incentive for people coming here illegally including enforcement, and rewarding those who stand in line and come here legally, does more good. We need to clean up this mess, and make sure it never happens again. People have, and will continue to be hurt, because of the action by those breaking the laws, and those that turn their heads.

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 2, 2010 5:48 p.m.

    This empowers foreign nationals to come into this country and take more jobs away from the American citizens who are entitled to them and need them, in order to increase the profits of employers who don't care about the unemployment of their fellow Americans. That's all this is.

  • Neanderthal Schenectady, NY
    Dec. 2, 2010 2:27 p.m.

    @Janet 1:48 p.m.

    "It would be wonderful indeed if Utah could set the bar on a reasonable solution."

    Any solution has to include NO amnesty. Let's get that clear. Amnesty is unfair to all who have patiently stood in line to come here and to many others across the world who would also like the chance.

  • Alfred Schenectady, NY
    Dec. 2, 2010 1:59 p.m.

    @JHP 10:33 a.m.

    "Reality is that Utah doesn't have the means or will to detain and deport everyone who is here illegally."

    Utah may not have the means to deport, but the fed does. Just enforce hiring of illegals laws using E-Verify and other means and illegals will deport themselves. No jobs, no need to stay.

    As for the will, this is where Obama seriously fails this country. Why? Because he is almost an immigrant himself. He doesn't seem to care if we get overrun with illegals. Makes no difference to him. As a matter of fact, he is counting on the Hispanic vote to keep him in office. He even has an aunt that the DNews reported is here illegally and still here.

    "It will help us weed out the chaff."

    And that chaff happens to be illegals. We have 15 million unemployed Americans. Illegals are taking Americans' jobs and need to leave so we can get the unemployed back to work, thus reducing the billions of unemployment payments from our treasury... which is now empty.

  • Janet Ontario, OR
    Dec. 2, 2010 1:48 p.m.

    It would be wonderful indeed if Utah could set the bar on a reasonable solution. Just as Arizona set the worst possible example on dealing with undocumented immigrants, Utah could set the best. Problems can be worked out if we want it enough.

  • 42istheanswer SLC, UT
    Dec. 2, 2010 1:03 p.m.

    If they are here illegally, they are already breaking the law. What is the point of a background check?

  • Tami Herriman, UT
    Dec. 2, 2010 12:58 p.m.

    And guess who gets to pay for all this new bureaucracy? Yep, you guessed it! You and me.

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 2, 2010 12:32 p.m.

    Actually the illegal immigration advocates are becoming so ludicrous that maybe the 80% of Utahns who would like THE LAW ENFORCED should determine who the businesses are that make up the Sutherland Institute, and the salt lake chamber, and start boycotting them.

    Contact your legislator and tell him to SUPPORT the sandstrom bill. ACTUAL UTAH CITIZENS are unemployed, THEY need jobs.

  • Carson Provo, UT
    Dec. 2, 2010 12:24 p.m.

    Our Legislators need to pass the Sandstrom bill, and add some teeth to it. Dry up the jobs Illegals hold. Fine those business that hire and employ Illegals. Stop all state welfare and other freebies Illegals receive and they will self deport. Do we the people need to take to the streets and riot, so our leaders will listen to us? Put our fellow Americans back to work!

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Dec. 2, 2010 11:51 a.m.

    This bill is worthless. Even if it passes, if an employer regularly uses illegal immigrants, and if one of them signs up for the program that person will be out of a job really quick.

    Plus, you can't ignore the fact that this goes against Federal law, and is essentially making Utah a haven for illegal immigrants.

  • Travis Burnswell Logan, UT
    Dec. 2, 2010 11:13 a.m.

    Yeah, if I were an illegal immigrant I would rush down to the courthouse THIS INSTANT for my free English test and criminal background check. Especially if I didn't speak English and had a criminal record.

    This bill truly is a realistic approach to the issue of illegal immigration. Kudos to the geniuses who crafted it, they really understand the minds and hearts of lawbreakers.

  • jmfay denver, co
    Dec. 2, 2010 10:57 a.m.

    Robles needs to be recalled.

  • Christine Orem, UT
    Dec. 2, 2010 10:54 a.m.

    Finally a plan that looks for solutions in a reasonable, moral, and practical way. Good for Sen. Robles and Mr Mero they are doing what they can.

    Good job! It's a good start!

  • CARL South Salt Lake, UT
    Dec. 2, 2010 10:46 a.m.

    The only way that immigrants can be forced to learn English is to remove anything that has other languages from hands of the government. This includes driving permits.

  • washcomom Beaverton, OR
    Dec. 2, 2010 10:43 a.m.

    There are no quick fixes to the situation - just many steps to get to the right one.

  • jmfay denver, co
    Dec. 2, 2010 10:42 a.m.

    Why cant you be like AZ? driver cards to help them to exist and now a work permit? Illegals dont belong here and your lawmakers are helping them to exist while at the same time denying help to your own citizens. Pie is only so big and if you have money to throw around; come help CO as we have another billion to cut from services here after 4.5 b in cuts in past 2 years. (due in large part to illegals)

  • JHP Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 2, 2010 10:33 a.m.

    Reality is that Utah doesn't have the means or will to detain and deport everyone who is here illegally.

    It sounds like this bill would allow the state to distinguish between those who are here illegally but are living good lives and those who are here illegally and are committing serious crimes. It will help us weed out the chaff. It will also require illegal immigrants to pay taxes if they want to stay here.

    So, because we can't get them all out, as some people would prefer, we might as well let the good ones rise to the surface of society and contribute to it. Sounds very reasonable, practical, and wise to me.

  • jmfay denver, co
    Dec. 2, 2010 10:30 a.m.

    This makes no sense and we suspect DOJ or DOL will be filing a lawsuit as a state cant exceed federal law. No chance of a waiver either.

    Do you not care about all the legal workers who dont have jobs? and if you have no one looking; we will ask Ritter to send you some of ours. He wont mind as it gets them off our roles and paying out unemployment benefits.

  • Mr. Bean Schenectady, NY
    Dec. 2, 2010 10:19 a.m.

    This is nothing more or less than a poorly disguised effort for amnesty.

    The bottom line is, we cannot allow amnesty... of any kind or sort. Those here illegally must either be deported or deport themselves. If they wish to come here to work they must get in line. There are millions, perhaps hundreds of millions around the globe who would like to come here. To allow amnesty would be grossly unfair to those who are willing to follow our laws and procedures for admittance. Allowing amnesty would also encourage more to follow, thus exacerbating the illegal immigration problem. We tried amnesty in 1986 and got the mess we are now in. Let's learn from that and not let it happen again. This Robles bill needs to be rejected. And the Sandstrom bill needs to be adopted.

  • jbc1 Mount Carmel, UT
    Dec. 2, 2010 10:16 a.m.

    The people of Mexico are hurting under an ineffectual government and the drug terrorists. When they come here they bring part of the misery of Mexico with them. They feel it is futile to oppose the evil forces at home. The hard fact is that they should stay home in Mexico and fight for a peaceful and prosperous Mexico. Making Utah a Sanctuary State won't change a thing in Mexico but help perpetuate the suffering there, and bring a great measure of it to America.

  • Terrie Bittner Warminster, PA
    Dec. 2, 2010 10:02 a.m.

    The proposal requires English proficiency in one year. That is unrealistic. I taught beginning ESL in my ward and most students had 2 years of English in school, but were not proficient. American is different from English and it takes many years to master even a simple conversation.

    For the Get in Line people...there is no line if you don't already have family here, aren't rich and don't have a unique job skill.

  • We the People Sandy, UT
    Dec. 2, 2010 9:38 a.m.

    I think your accusation is baseless and needlessly accusatory. I propose a simple plan to strengthen our nation and stop this lawless activity.

    1) Severely punish employers who hire illegals.
    2) Tighten the borders. Really. Not some feigned effort, but really make passage next to impossible. This goal could be accomplished by fencing, technology, and even military exercises.
    3) Make coming here legally much easier.
    4) Deport all those we catch who are here illegally.

    I believe in legal immigration. I believe most do. Please stop accusing others of being xenophobes without any basis.

  • Kitenoa Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 2, 2010 9:36 a.m.

    I think it a reasonable and workable approach to the complex issue of illegal immigration. This is a simple yet innovative plan with accountability attached, something that is often missing from more punitive plans.

    But again, this Utah plan is at the mercy of the Federal Government for legitimacy.

    There is no guarantee! Illegal immigrants will have a fit buying into a state only sanction plan, that the Federal Government can overturn at anytime.

  • Curmudgeon Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 2, 2010 9:07 a.m.

    To those who extol the "get in line" approach and purport to welcome immigrants who do it "the right way," do you also advocate streamlining the process to admit qualified immigrants more rapidly (whether for citizenship or temporary visas), or do you want the line to remain as slow and inefficient as it currently is? A system that expedited legal immigration would reduce the incentive to come here illegally, and would better provide the legal immigrant workers that we want and need.

    But somehow I think many of the anti-illegal crowd would like to keep the spigot of legal immigration at a trickle, which says something about their real prejudices.

  • Ray73 Bluffdale, UT
    Dec. 2, 2010 8:51 a.m.

    Go ahead and do a background check on the people here. Send them back to their country and make sure they are at higher chances for US citizenship than others. You still can't make a wrong into a right by allowing illegal status to be call undocumented. Illegal will always be illegal...I think they should have a greater chance to come back legally. If they were hard workers here and didn't commit crime, then bring them back legally. I think we should send back the millions of lazy Americans that won't work and exchange them for the hard working people from Mexico. Look at all the young people that won't work and suck off the hard working tax payers. I am not talking about those that make major efforts to work, that can't. Let's do an exchange for the hard and honest workers that will pay taxes and actually take care of their own family. Get rid of the lazy people full of excuses.

  • Adver Taylorsville, UT
    Dec. 2, 2010 8:34 a.m.

    These people need to be deported!

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    Dec. 2, 2010 8:01 a.m.

    Might I suggest that we are watching a compassion bidding war between the LDS Church and the Catholics. It is particularly intense given Bishop Wester's post as immigration guru for the US Council of Bishops.
    We know well what the Mormons teach about the laws of the land. Here's a quote from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
    "Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants' duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens."
    There's the REAL unity of the faith. The leaders are pandering.

  • Emophiliac Vernal, UT
    Dec. 2, 2010 7:50 a.m.

    With 10% unemployment, why is any business having trouble filling positions? Is it because they want to pay sub-standard wages? It should be a requirement that employing any foreigner should require a higher wage than that paid for any US citizen. Hiring foreigners should not be a way of just undercutting wages.

    This bill should be dead from the start. One can only hope that is the case.

    Dec. 2, 2010 7:40 a.m.

    The best are those who come here legally. If we count all law breaking including theft of identity, working illegally (felony) etc. none would be allowed.

    Some countries would lie to keep their citizens here.

    Many Utahns would riot before this happened. We just cut 3 million people off unemployment benefits. We need these jobs.

  • jim l West Jordan, UT
    Dec. 2, 2010 6:35 a.m.

    The senator, tony, and the chamber of commerce are not listening to what the people of utah want. They want jobs and cheap lobor for and from the illegals. The people of utah want jobs of their own, they dont want to pay for the free health care, education, etc. etc. of the illegals. The media is still trying to convince us that is is ok for illegals to come here. its not. People are upset, and we will vote accordingly.

  • Another Perspective Bountiful, UT
    Dec. 2, 2010 6:31 a.m.

    I especially like the part about having all these immigrants undergo a criminal background check.

    I learned something recently that these immigrants commit less crimes than the general population in Utah. With these background checks, that is only going to improve.

    It makes all the sense in the world to keep the best and get rid of the rest. Immigration is what build our country and those immigrants who have a clean record will benefit us greatly.

  • utahenergyideas Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 2, 2010 1:01 a.m.

    We need to remove and not create any rewards and incentives for immigrants to come here and be here illegally.

    Immigrants that are here illegally should not have the ability to become United States Citizens prior to those outside the U.S. applying to come legally.

    We do need to treat all, even those breaking our laws, as human beings. There should be incentives for those that are already here illegally to register with the U.S. Government for a short term work visa if done in conjunction with a sponsoring legal business and State. Those short term work visas should not be a step toward citizenship.

    Citizenship, if desired and qualified for, must be applied for with the application from their country of origin, (unless qualifying for asylum) and behind those that have been waiting legally there. 

  • utahenergyideas Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 2, 2010 1:01 a.m.

    Comparing Immigration to a movie theater
    Do you remember when you had to wait in line to buy tickets to a movie, and then wait in line before going in? That was before you could order them at home, and know then where your seat was and what time to show up to the theater. If you showed up at the theater and the show was full, you could buy a ticket to a later show.

    Why do we make immigration more complicated?

    You can't let everyone show up for the same show or there would be no place to sit, and you do need some reasonable security and rules.

    If we are going to have a line for people to come to this country, you can't reward those that bypass the line. They need to be sent to the back of the line. That doesn't mean you should stop treating them like people.

  • skiutah American Fork, Utah
    Dec. 2, 2010 12:22 a.m.

    This is nothing more than legalizing something that is currently illegal and promoting illegal entry into our country. To say that this bill meets the Herbert's guidelines is laughable.