Dick Harmon: Former Cougar/Ute dreams of returning respect to rivalry

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  • Wally West Port of Spain, T & T
    Nov. 26, 2010 6:28 p.m.

    re: Rock | 2:12 a.m. Nov. 24, 2010 & Superman | 2:17 a.m. Nov. 24, 2010

    I know people who have experienced big time rivalries (TX v A & M & Auburn/Alabama).

    I have been told its intense and passionate leading up to & during the game but shortly after life goes back to normal.

    This leads me to believe that if a certain religion didn't foster such denial & repression then perhaps there would be some civility.

  • Superman Calgary, Alberta
    Nov. 24, 2010 2:17 a.m.

    If a person becomes so agitated and filled with anger or hate that they react in an immature and undignified manner, and are an embarrassment to the school and church they represent, they need to turn in their Temple Recommend because they are no longer worthy to enter.
    Control yourselves!!!

  • Rock Calgary, Alberta
    Nov. 24, 2010 2:12 a.m.

    There are several small towns in Southern Alberta with an LDS based population. 5 or 6 small towns with not much other than High School sports to give the towns life. Some of them hate each other and my wife refuses to attend any of their games. I have seen chairs thrown, swearing, fights, (on the floor), and its all in the name of selfish intolerance and pride (the superiority type). You thought I was going to say, all in the name of sport didn't you? Religion cannot be left out of the equation in all of this because the players are 80 to 90 per cent LDS and those players need to be held to a higher level of behavior. Their parents need to hold themselves to a higher level and the fans in general, the other students, need to recognize the message they are sending and the betrayal to their church it represents. They all go to tournaments in other cities and I would like to see them show a high level of sportsmanship. An exemplary level. Come on BYU, lets set a better example.

  • optimist Sun City, CA
    Nov. 24, 2010 1:20 a.m.

    First I congratulate all the newspapers in Salt Lake City, in Provo, and on the Campasses of each of the Universities this past week in talking about our rivalry and what needs to be done about it.

    It is long over due and should be an ongoing thing from now until such time we become civilzed again. Our rivalry has become sick. Not healthy at all. We at BYU, are a Church school. There are many Church people at the U of U. We let things get out of hand in the bleachers and in the blogging. We need to teach in our classrooms, in the cities, and on the internet, that we must have a healthy rivalry or none at all. It has gotten so bad, that now, the Nation is watching. Shame on us if we don't get this turned around.

  • UU702 Layton, UT
    Nov. 24, 2010 12:31 a.m.

    Ten out of Ten PAC 10 schools agree...Utah has more class than byu!

    No wonder they call it the bubble, get over yourselves!

    I have been to LES numerous times for the game and I could have easily been offended every time by any number of ignorant people, but I chose to ignore it because it was a FOOTBALL GAME! Save yourself an emotional scar that you will bring up ten years from now and stay away from RES this saturday if your skin is too thin!

  • mr. j Cottonwood Hts., Ut
    Nov. 23, 2010 11:02 p.m.

    "MMM yes a lack of civility. Yup there's alot. But it's all their fault! Not my fault! No, no!" Is it just me or is there a lack of objectivity going on here tonight? Yup, zoobs, just keep pattin' yourselves on the back and tellin' yourselves what good sports you all are and how bad the other guys are! And we'll see how much civility there is on game day. Ute's are just as vulgar and mean as cougars are arrogant and high-minded. I'm not proud of it but it could change if the bad ones came down from that horse that's as high as the golden calf. But I'm not gonna hold my breath...

    But I do love rivalry week and the rivalry so I'm not to worried.

  • WeberCatBasketballFan Midway, UT
    Nov. 23, 2010 10:05 p.m.

    Rich for Truth... you can't handle the truth. Or the Truth. Get a grasp of the Truth and then maybe your eyes will be opened to the truth. ;)

  • yarrlydarb Ogden, UT
    Nov. 23, 2010 9:46 p.m.

    We forget, Dick Harmon, that Alex Smith made essentially the same sort of comments as Max Hall, but he (Smith) was the first to do so in his last year at the U.

  • Rock Of The Marne Phoenix, AZ
    Nov. 23, 2010 9:15 p.m.

    mohokat, and by your hateful comments about the U of U you aren't classless? Seems to be the pot calling the kettle black; the hypocrisy of Y fans is mind numbing.

  • Wally West Port of Spain, T & T
    Nov. 23, 2010 5:57 p.m.

    re: JJ Morales | 7:24 a.m. Nov. 23, 2010
    The Game Day crew favors Provo over SLC.

    No one with half a brain give 2 hoots what ESPN thinks. Among there football experts are; Matt Millen, Steve Young,Mark May, Herm Edwards, & Trent Dilfer.

    "BYU is the best example of sportsmanship we have in the nation."

    Really? What time is your alarm set for?

    "You will never hear chants using the f-word at BYU,"

    No. Not the actual one but as many times as I've heard the replacements they use in Zion you might as well drop the legitimate F-bomb.

  • Digbads South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 23, 2010 5:49 p.m.

    I attended both schools, and taught classes at both schools. It was while attending grad school at the U that I really became a big BYU football fan.
    The players at BYU must meet tough academic standards, and very tough behavior standards. It really shows when dealing with the athletes. Many of the football players I dealt with at the U were academically embarrassing, and the overall attitude of the program seemed to breed a lack of civility towards fellow students.

    From my observations-- Max Hall was right on.

  • mohokat Ogden, UT
    Nov. 23, 2010 5:49 p.m.

    The idea is nice. I have been a BYU fan since 1948 and that was when is was not popular to be one. I have always thought that when an in state team was playing an out of state team that one should root for the in state. That is until many years ago I attended a (I think it was) quarter final NCAA basketball game at the Huntsman Center. Utah was playing at home and at the game we were watching (not Utah) the half time score of a BYU game in New Orleans was announced which at that time BYU was losing. Many of the Utah fans that were at that game stood and cheered. I have hated Utah since that day and my three sons who were with me feel the same. I cheered when TCU thumped them and was cheering for San Diego the other night. Max Hall told the truth. Good for him. I have seen the lack of class of Utah fans. Matter of fact Utah fans have no class in my opinion.

  • Cougar Cindy Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 23, 2010 4:40 p.m.

    100% in agreement with Ray Beckham . . . i support everything he proposes, and I believe it CAN change.

    Let's make it happen, Cougars. We can make the difference. Start with a policy in LES, printed on the ticket, that fans will be removed for discourteous conduct of any kind, and then install teams of bouncers, who will be ruthless in judgment of what's discourteous. Pursue the policy relentlessly!

    Cougar bloggers can help by coming down harder on ill-mannered BYU fans than on negative or rude Ute bloggers and trolls. Ignore the worst of the Utes and focus on the worst of the Cougars. Let them know they aren't part of us.

    Cougars, quit spelling "Ute" with a "Y", and ignore the Ute practice of never referring to BYU by its name. Whittingham should set the example in this.

    We can make the difference, Cougar Fans. I always say there are ordinary football fans, and then there are true blue Cougar fans, the latter being those who live by and uphold the principles of BYU and its sponsoring institution. The others only do harm to our team, our school, and the great sport.


  • Red Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 23, 2010 4:31 p.m.

    I love that Mr. Beckham is willing to put his money where his mouth is. That is what we need. Everyone wants to talk about it, but for change to happen more people need to lead the way. Especially, all the prominent players from past and present.

    Also, everyone loves President Uchtdorf and now we will see if they are really willing to follow his council and treat each other with respect. What is the difference between hating each other, gambling, or breaking the word of wisdom?
    The answer is there shouldn't be a difference, but everyone loves to judge and HATE the Utah fans for drinking but they are just as guilty when they HATE them. Bunch of hypocrits.

    Let's all try harder to care about each other. We all wear the same jersey right? So, act like it.

    The rivalry is great. Let's keep it that way. Ron McBride and Lavell Edwards have done a great job making it fun. Let's all follow their lead!!!

    Sounds simple and IT IS!!!! Give up your hate.

    Do the right thing. Follow the Prophet.

  • Solomon the Wise Alpine, UT
    Nov. 23, 2010 3:48 p.m.

    advice from the walking hate machine, hedgehog?

    "Hate seems to follow BYU... You got to ask yourself Y?"

    Simple answer. Opposing fans hate winners. The most hated teams in sports are the winningest teams.

    BYU has dominated the WAC and the MWC for over a third of a century. No other team has even come close to the 22 championships football championships BYU has won in the last 35 years.

    Some BYU fans are indeed arrogant. But, the main soures of BYU hatred are:

    1) Winning envy
    2) Religious bigotry

  • Independent Henderson, NV
    Nov. 23, 2010 3:31 p.m.

    What I can't figure out is why someone would attach themselves to a football team to the point that it would motivate them to be disrespectful of another human being. It's a football team. They are not your family. They don't even know you. They have no knowledge of you and couldn't care less about your own personal accomplishments. Why are you so obsessed with theirs? You are not more or less of a person because your favorite team wins or loses. There's nothing wrong with enjoying a football game, but getting so attached to a team that you would call somebody names, make obscense gestures, or spit on somebody for them is nothing short of crazy. The craziness is hinted at when fans of their respective teams refer to the teams as "we" or "us." Are you on the team? No? Then you can't call it "us," can you? Do you really enjoy the contention? Why not just sit back and enjoy the game? If you're not enjoying it even when "your team" loses, you need to reassess why you're there.

  • my3cents Nashville, TN
    Nov. 23, 2010 2:43 p.m.

    The ironic thing is that the coaches and administrators have generally had good relationships. I'm with LaVell Edwards when asked about the venom that goes back and forth in regards to the rivalry. He always said, "It's just a football game."

    I have found that if I try to practice humility through the year, my opponents find little satisfaction in rubbing my nose in it after a loss. I always simply tell them, "I'm happy for your team." And despite the pain of seeing my beloved cougars lose, the statement is true.

  • canyonhawk83 Springville, UT
    Nov. 23, 2010 2:02 p.m.

    Great article.

    It's a great rivarly minus the few minority on either side that try to ruffle Swoop's feathers or pull on Cosmo's tail.

  • Utesforlife Lehi, UT
    Nov. 23, 2010 2:01 p.m.

    Rick for Truth, that is a nice attempt to show just how poor Utah fans really are, but like JJ Morales, there is very little basis behind your accusations. I saw personally Utah fans telling other Utah fans to quit some poor behavior at the TCU game a few weeks ago. I'm guessing you spend a lot more time at BYU games then you do at Utah games. Perhaps that is why you see it the way you do.

    As I stated before, both schools have lousy fans. I have seen it at both stadiums. I have been to BYU games against other schools (not Utah) and seen it. I have been to Utah games against other schools (not BYU) and seen it. The only way to stop it is to start with yourself. Playing the blame game only adds fuel to the fire. You are adding fuel to the fire. Unfortunately, going to the rival stadium wearing the "wrong" colors will lend to more of the idiots showing off. It happened with my brother, dressed in blue, at RES and it happened to me, dressed in red, at LES.

  • pocyUte2 Pocatello, Id
    Nov. 23, 2010 1:54 p.m.

    First of all this a great article and embodies the sentiment of majority of both fanbases as evidenced by the majority of the comments. However, we again have people on both sides pointing the finger. I think those people may need to point the finger at themselves first.

    ND was a great atmosphere. BYU was not last year, and Utah was not the year before. We all need to take a step forward and say like the ND usher who was escorting out some less than flattering ND fans, "we don't treat our visitors like that."

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    Nov. 23, 2010 1:50 p.m.

    Let me just clear up a few things for the clueless.

    I attend many ND games and although I would consider the Irish well behaved - the fanbase is far from perfect.

    During the Utah game I witnessed boorish irish behaviour.... very similar to what I see when the Irish play UofM.

    Somehow you kewgs like to idiolize ND as this magical nirvana. But just like the TDS, ND has a very hypocritical undertow.

    Remember, it takes two to tango and instead of pointing fingers.... look in the mirror. Hate seems to follow the tds ( i.e SDSU,WY,UTah St.). You got to ask yourself Y?

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    Nov. 23, 2010 1:42 p.m.

    As a Utah fan I totally agree with this. Those who taunt and degrade are not fans of the game, they are in fact "mental midgets" who use the excitement of the rivalry to act in a way that would frankly get them thrown out of any other venue. Saying that the "other side" is doing the same thing or is worse is pointless. Let's police our own and make this game what it was intended to be. Competition after all is just a way to push each other to excel. The game is a time to test wits and test strengths and test talents. Hopefully we can get back to that.

  • conservative scientist Lindon, UT
    Nov. 23, 2010 1:10 p.m.

    This is an excellent article and a great idea to help foster sportsmanship. I hope it works. Both sides have a lot of work to do.

    One of my great memories of last years BYU-Utah game was walking to the game with a Ute Fan. As a cougar fan, I didn't hold any animosity toward him and I don't think he did toward me. We chatted pleasantly and talked about the great history of both schools in their football and basketball programs and the pleasant aspects of our rivalry over the years.

  • Utah Fan2 Anaheim, CA
    Nov. 23, 2010 12:52 p.m.

    From what I've seen, there are crude, rude, abusive fans on both sides, but the actual number of BYU fans who act that way is relatively small. The actual number of Utah fans is quite large.

    Guaranteed, there will be crude, vulgar t-shirts and sweatshirts worn at the BYU-Utah game that RES will do absolutely nothing to stop.

    We've heard from Bronco about improved sportsmanship, but we've heard NOTHING from Kyle.

    Wasn't it Kyle who had a reporter thrown out of fall practice simply because he was a former BYU player? Did Kyle ever say anything to Urban about the disrespect he was showing Kyle's alma mater by referring to BYU as the "Team Down South"? Did Kyle object to the BYU logo being placed in the urinals at the U?

    As a Utah alum, it's embarassing to have my school represented by such classless acts, while the Utah administration/athletic department gives tacit approval by their silence.

    Utah fans can whine about BYU fans being "holier than thou", but the sad truth is, BYU fans are trying to curb poor sportsmanship, while Utah fans are justifying it.

  • Gazpacho Logan, UT
    Nov. 23, 2010 12:17 p.m.

    JJ Morales

    As a very loyal BYU fan of 30+ years, I would like to personally call out JJ Morales and SpoxJox as self-righteous hypocrites. Your egregious statements do not, thankfully, represent those of sensible fans, on both sides.

  • milhouse Atlanta, GA
    Nov. 23, 2010 12:17 p.m.

    What if we held the game at Rio Tinto Stadium every year? Hear me out-

    Only the senior classes at each school would be given tickets. You would cut down the people who live for the game week-in, week-out, and you would emphasize that the people on the field are college students.

    The money lost in ticket sales could be recovered in sponsorship and advertising. The game would quickly become the most unique neutral field rivalry in college football, rivaling OU-Texas and Georgia-Florida.

  • DEW Cougars Sandy, UT
    Nov. 23, 2010 12:13 p.m.

    Here what need to be done to both sides. But, let start with this - my son was playing in the Utes Marching band on his freshmen year and the first game was against Texas A&M in the end of August 2004. I was sitting in the student section and this one student was wearing this middle finger with BYU in the middle at front and back of his shirt. No one, the fans, the security or UoU did anything about that guy with that filthy shirt. I was not thinking about the BYU in the middle but the middle finger was very inapropriate to the public. This is not good example and UoU need to do something about it.

    Look what Louisville and Kentucky did - for how many years they stop playing each other in basketball? Why not and I can live with out BYU/UTAH Rivalry. If they do restart later in future, it will continue the same bad behavior.

    Get rid of those people who are making this problem and don't let them back in again.

    And you know what, MAX WAS RIGHT!

  • dutgut Saint George, UT
    Nov. 23, 2010 11:49 a.m.

    All the comments pointing blame one way or the other have totally missed the point of this article!!!

  • deductive reasoning Arlington, VA
    Nov. 23, 2010 11:33 a.m.

    Tom in MS

    Unfortunately, yours is a very typical response from fans who constantly exhibit poor sportsmanship. Rather than bucking up and trying to improve your own sportsmanship, you use an anecdotal example to justify your poor sportsmanship by whining about being "judged".

    The world would be a better place if everyone would simpy grow up and accept a little responsibility for their own actions and stop blaming other people.

    Fans on both sides of the rivalry all need to be more civil, but unfortunately, most of what's said in these blogs and in the news is preaching to the choir because the fans that really need to change don't care, and the fans that could speak out to help reign in those fans are too timid to say or do anything to stop it.

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    Nov. 23, 2010 11:13 a.m.

    I've seen poor sportsmanship from BYU and Utah fans, but the worst sportsmanship I've seen by far comes from a sizeable minority of Utah fans, who give the rest of the Utah fans who do display good sportsmanship a bad name.

    It may sound cliche', but a major factor in the crude behavior of Utah fans is alcohol; many Utah fans come to the game "well lubricated" on purpose, and on cold, winter days like this Saturday, will continue to imbibe on drinks smuggled into the stadium.

    Even though beer is not sold at RES, it's not difficult to hide several containers in the pockets of a big heavy winter coat. The gatekeeps search bags, but I've never seen anybody patted down.

    Combine that with their hatred of BYU and the church BYU represents, and you have a volatile mixture ready to explode with the most vile, disgusting behavior.

    These "Utah fans" are actually more interested in hating BYU, than they are in cheering for Utah. Utah sports are simply a vehicle for voicing their hatred. Read some of the T'shirts worn at the BYU-Utah game this Saturday for a sample of their hatred.

  • TJ Eagle Mountain, UT
    Nov. 23, 2010 11:05 a.m.

    I support the leadersip getting together in the spirit of a healthy rivalry and think this is a step in the right direction. I also feel that we can all be leaders. The problem, as mentioned above is the low IQ (mental midgets) who like the hate and are comfortable "rolling in the mud" with those like them and try to pull the rest in. Our culture supports that behavior more and more each year. Real fans, along with the school officials have the power to stop this. I suggest 3 things. 1. A brief message before the national anthem from the home coach and team captains encouraging civility. 2. Widespread publicity by administrations of both schools that this type of behavior will result in immediate removal from the game and disciplinary action by their school if the person(s) is a student at either institution. (Hundreds of security to monitor this) 3. Real fans exhibit good sportsmanship and courtesy to opposing fans. Real Utah fans should monitor, advise and report rowdy spectators. Real BYU fans should do the same. This third item will go the farthest. Remove any who are drunk, using profanity or who exhibit threatening behavior.

  • Tom in MS Madison, MS
    Nov. 23, 2010 11:04 a.m.

    Poor Rick for Truth, I'm wondering what you have been inhaling. I recall the words of a BYU fan at LES a few years ago (Urban Meyer's first at Utah). Reacting to a Utah running back going for a long gainer, the fan reacted, "KILL HIM!!!" Imagine that as a scream, and that's how I remember it. He didn't swear or cuss. But he wasn't told by others to stop his conduct either. So before ridiculing Utah fans, and saying they are the ones that need to change, perhaps you need to take the mote out of your own eye, and forget about the beams that might be in the Utah fans' eyes.

  • grandmak Irvine, CA
    Nov. 23, 2010 10:59 a.m.

    Since this may well be the last Thanksgiving weekend for the UtahVSBYU game. I for one would love to see harmony with all the fans. Our family has 3 generations of UofU fans. My husband, I, his parents and my mother graduated from the U. Our daughter's graduation this spring will make 3 generations graduating from the U. That said, we have a son who cheers for the Y because he grew up when BYU had winning seasons and has been a fan ever since. Our middle son was born the day before BYU's 1980 Holiday Bowl victory. I was in the hospital cheering when BYU won. We have cheered for the Y in many instances but when it comes to the BYU-Utah football game we are U fans 100%. May the best team win and lets show that we know how to participate in "good wholesome recreation". I am excited to be in SLC this week and I am grateful for the blessing of family. This weekend we can be truly grateful for many blessings. One is to have a wonderful stadium for us to come and cheer our team on. Go UTES!!!

  • Rick for Truth Provo, UT
    Nov. 23, 2010 10:25 a.m.

    Go dressed as a Utah fan to the game in SLC, then next time in Provo go dressed as a BYU fan. Observe and say nothing. You will be shocked; the best of the Utah fans will be a poor example of the worst of the BYU fans. Utah fans redefine hatred, stop preaching to the choir and put the blame where it really is. Max's reaction last year is exactly that, "A reaction to the poor behavior of the Utah Fans". I have observed poor behavior of BYU fans and at the same time seen other BYU fans drown them out and show instant disapproval of their actions. This would never happen in SLC. For respect to return to rivalry week respect will have to be a two-way street. BYU fans are waiting, but I wouldnt hold my breath for the Utah fans to buck up and deliver.

  • Z2010 Brigham City, UT
    Nov. 23, 2010 10:23 a.m.

    A great attribute of a classy individual is treating all people with respect. If you have pride for your school, then treat people from other schools with respect. Respect is earned by giving respect.

    I think that not being in the same conference is a good start at mellowing the rivalry. I do not like the idea of Utah and BYU having a banquet together, seems too authoritarian to me.

    I look forward to a great game, and hope the Utes win. Prediction: Utah 34, BYU 17.

  • Eliot Santaquin, UT
    Nov. 23, 2010 9:56 a.m.

    A few years ago I had a Palestinian student working for me while she attended school. She spoke to her fellow students at her college graduation and related an experience she had while traveling back to school from her home. She was in New York and flights out of the airport were delayed because of weather. She was frightened and confused, not sure what to do because of the delays. A friendly couple helped her make arrangements and eventually get the flights she needed. The couple was from Israel. They were Jews. The relationship they forged in that airport with this young Palestinian student continued beyond their simple act of kindness and she visited them in their home in Michigan. Palestinians and Jews do hold house warming parties for each other but we do not hear of it because we are distracted by those who hate and act on that hate. I believe the same is true of BYU and Utah albeit on a smaller scale. The large majority of fans treat each other with respect but we are distracted by the few who don't.

  • Salemite Salem, Ut
    Nov. 23, 2010 9:48 a.m.

    I'm not a native Utahn. What I've seen and heard here over the years regarding these two schools when they lock horns is quite disturbing at times, and at other times is downright embarrassing. This sort of thing does not happen back East where I'm from. Yesterday the hatred, exhibited by some here, was confined to the local Utah media. Today it has reached the National stage. That's a shame. The one place in our country that's supposed to represent civility and character, on Saturday in SLC I'm afraid "This right place." will not.

  • Utesforlife Lehi, UT
    Nov. 23, 2010 9:42 a.m.

    JJ Morales, it is always the fault of someone else. If you numbers hold true, over 9,000 of the Utah fans that will be at the game on Saturday will be over the edge causing trouble. You also claim that all of the trouble at LES last year was caused by Utah fans. Were you even there. I was. I watched as a handful of BYU fans taunted the Utah cheerleaders in the NW corner of the end zone, nearly jumping onto the field in an effort to show their superiority.

    As you stated, please get your facts straight before posting absurd comments that simply aren't true.

    The truth of the matter is, a small % of fans from every school take things too far. They think for some silly reason that this is more than just a football game. Until EVERYONE is willing to look at themselves first, change will not happen. The blame game just adds fuel to the fire. Start with the guy in the mirror!

  • Spoxjox Redmond, WA
    Nov. 23, 2010 9:40 a.m.

    I appreciate and laud Mr. Beckham's efforts, who is actually doing something and not just wringing his hands. But to equate the actions of BYU fans and Ute fans or to pretend that both are equally guilty of abhorrent actions is just plain false. And to focus on Max Hall's regrettable outburst while ignoring what precipitated it, and to mention the jostling of the Whittinghams while failing to note that the altercation was a resut of Ute fan actions, is dishonest.

    BYU fans should in all instances be above the base actions decried in this article. Most BYU fans will be the first to admit that; we claim to be a unique and special university, so we (students and supporters) should act the part. But any honest observer knows that the actions of Ute "fans" are 90% of this problem.

    Failing to state the obvious -- this problem is primarily a problem with Ute fans -- because you "don't want to point fingers" is absurd, along the lines of the high school principal who finds two students fighting and suspends them both, ignoring the fact that one of the students attacked the other, who was only defending himself.

  • PHealey Holladay, UT
    Nov. 23, 2010 9:26 a.m.

    Having graduated from both schools, I chose to cheer for the Utes when I was young. I however will cheer for all of the Utah schools whenever it they play outside competition. I have been dismayed by fans on both sides of this rivalry. For institutions of "Higher Learning" where tolerance and other virtues are preached it amazes me that such behaviour is tolerated by fans nearby the few cretins. I find that it often people lacking in personal control or have issues that they do not know how to channel into productive outcomes. I agree with several here that we need to have leadership push for change, but I also think that I as an individual need to make statements of respect. One person can make a difference. I will be flying both schools flags this Saturday. I hope for my team but I hope for both teams to win respect from the other.

  • USAlover Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 23, 2010 9:22 a.m.

    The hatred that is now a part of this Rivalry will subside at about the same time Palestinians and Jews throw house warming parties for each other.

    The Rivalry is simply a microcosm for what is happening in society at large. There is currently a polarizing of values and politics in society in general and the "majority" of students at these two schools fall on opposite sides of that "values-politics" spectrum. Of course there are exceptions to this rule, but those exceptions are increasingly less significant.

    Admit we disagree on some values (and probably never will agree again), but afford each other civil respect and even, gasp, wish each other well when we are not competing. Then, and only then, will behavior improve.

    Until then, the Rivalry should END!!

  • Gunny Spanish Fork, Utah
    Nov. 23, 2010 9:19 a.m.

    I would like to thank Mr. Beckham for his leadership. It is very refreshing to see all the positive feedback. I moved here 9 years ago. I was stationed all over the world and have never witnessed so much rude behavior, anger, insults, and just plan mean people over a football game. I stopped attending the game in one stadium because a fan from the opposing side chucked a plastic cup at my family as we departed early while shouting foul obscenities. Some in the media insight more madness. I strongly support moving behavior in a better direction. Everyone needs to do their part to improve this situation. We should not point fingers or place blame. The fans need to improve the behavior and set the example for the youth. Each and every fan can make a difference. I have always wonder why the School Presidents did not move on this sooner?

  • StrizzleUTE Richfield, Utah
    Nov. 23, 2010 8:12 a.m.

    The issue that has made this rivalry dirty has nothing to do with the players,(minus the occasional comment form either side, but that is nothing compared to stuff you see on cougar board or Ute fans) a good portion of them aren't even from Utah and before coming to either school they haven't even heard of this game.
    The issue and what we usually hear about is the fans. If its pouring some substance on the parents of a player, or attacking a wife, both true or untrue.
    We need to bring fans together for a better cause. For example, Two rivals in my area have been going at it for years, fans even hanging a sheep from a goalpost a few years back. last year they enacted a pink game to raise money for breast cancer. Everyone had the same shirt on that they made a donation for and you couldn't tell who was for who right off the bat. it made people realize that we're all just fans cheering for our teams, equal.
    I suggest something like this rather than a lavish dinner that fans cant attend

  • Timo Herriman, UT
    Nov. 23, 2010 8:09 a.m.

    Great article! I didn't realize how vicious rivalry fans were until I moved up to Salt Lake about 6 years ago from So Cal. I agree with other posters that a return to civility starts with leaders of both universities not tolerating disrespectful behavior. After that, the media has a great deal of influence on people's attitudes. I heard a local radio sports show yesterday, and the hosts were really fueling the flames of bad behavior (all for ratings I assume).

  • Razzle2 Bluffdale, UT
    Nov. 23, 2010 8:09 a.m.

    I appreciate the comments aove by SLCWatch. I want to change my own comment too. One fan can make a diiference. I will join you.

  • Uncle Rico Sandy, UT
    Nov. 23, 2010 8:04 a.m.

    Secular schools want God out. The U of U students like to flaunt Godless behavior. BYU fans tend to be whiners. I want civility, until then, I have to agree with Max Hall.

  • Owl Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 23, 2010 8:01 a.m.

    Well said, however Dr. Wright has a rather narrow perspective with uncertain "facts" and tenuous conclusions. It would be well for each person to improve rather than pointing out how someone else should improve.

  • SLCWatch Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 23, 2010 7:46 a.m.

    I am a University of Utah graduate and I am embarrassed to attend games there. It became an enviroment I did not want to take my family into because of the language, disrespect and assualts both physical and verbal that we personally had to endure there. Our most recent game there was TCU's visit three years ago. We did not go as fans of TCU yet we found ourselves in a mix of drunken, vulgar, and degrading behavior unworthy of any institution. I wish the U administration would see what they have done to their own alumni.
    Now, it shames me to see that there are equally classless behaviors among some fans at the Y. Fortunately it is a minority but it is growing and needs to stop.
    I have personally taken it as a challenge to approach fans of the visiting schools that attend LES and welcome them, help them if they have questions or problems and to thank them after the game for coming. If a change is to take place we have to do it as individuals. I for one will. Please join me so we can enjoy the game.

  • Razzle2 Bluffdale, UT
    Nov. 23, 2010 7:45 a.m.

    It wont start with the fans. Mr. Beckham has a plan that could work.
    I went to South Bend to watch Utah/Notre Dame. Surprisingly I came away as a new Notre Dame fan.

    Notre Dame is the shining light on the hill.
    Flags of all their opponents fly in the stadium. The University of Utah flag flew higher on game day. Similar experience with Iowa State; after the game they applauded the Utah players!

    The geographic closeness of the universities is not the problem. I grew up in L.A. as an UCLA fan. As big as the rivalry is in Southern California there is tremendous respect for both schools.

    Alcohol is not the problem. The University of Utah has done a good job moving the drunken tailgaters to one corner of the campus. Most of those emotional midgets dont even make it to the game. (I wish I didnt have to walk by them.) I have NEVER seen alcohol in the stadium.

    One big problem is the elitist attitude some BYU fans have over their little brothers. It sickens me. Change will only come from the top. Mr. Beckhams ideas can work.

  • richl Farmington, UT
    Nov. 23, 2010 7:46 a.m.

    As a Utah State fan, I've always rooted for BYU and Utah and Weber when they were not playing the Aggies. And sometimes I've even rooted for BYU or Utah when they needed the win to get in the BCS or the NCAA basketball playoffs. Utah State students are known for being vocal and outrageous in the Spectrum, but I've never seen such rude behavior as I witnessed once when visiting watching Utah State at BYU four or five years ago while attending with a group of BYU and Utah State fans. Some of these fans would put their mouths to our ears and yell as loudly as they could. I realize that most BYU fans would condemn such behavior, and I think it's high time that both BYU and Utah emulate Notre Dame and expel fans for a minimum of one year for conduct that does not reflect the ideals of the school.

  • bradleyc Layton, UT
    Nov. 23, 2010 7:34 a.m.

    I once heard a story of, after the cougar faithful had been booing a call, Ernest Wilkinson, President of BYU stopping a Basketball game at the Smith Field house. He walked out on the floor, pointed to the home crowd and said, "there will be none of that at this university."
    Maybe we should all heed President Wilkinson's call and be a little more civil this year.

  • JJ Morales Earlimart, CA
    Nov. 23, 2010 7:24 a.m.

    I place the overwhelming majority of the blame on the utah side. I would say about 20-25% of their fans will never be civil. Even at LES, it was yewt fans that caused trouble last year. I think utah needs to police its own fan base and then we can have a discussion about this topic.

    To Dr. Norman Wright: You don't know what you are talking about. Legendary ND Head Coach Lou Holtz claimed he was never treated better than when he came to play BYU in Provo. The Game Day crew favors Provo over SLC. BYU is the best example of sportsmanship we have in the nation. You will never hear chants using the f-word at BYU, but you will at utah and other colleges. Please get your facts straight before posting absurd comments that simply aren't true.

  • wyoute Worland, WY
    Nov. 23, 2010 7:06 a.m.


  • Eddie Syracuse, UT
    Nov. 23, 2010 6:48 a.m.

    Good article! I agree that things must stop. It really is getting to close to the edge of hatred with more and more people joining its ranks. I am a BYU fan and will cheer for the Ute's when they are not playing the Y. It all begins with each of us to make this a wonderful rivalry. The gathering at Thankgiving Point is a great idea and I for one would love to see it happen. With all the hate in the world we need to come together and show how humane we can be.

  • midwestfan Spanish Fork, UT
    Nov. 23, 2010 6:41 a.m.

    Right-on. Please, please, please make it happen. Somebody come forward. And may BYU win!

  • Dr. Norman Wright Provo, UT
    Nov. 23, 2010 6:09 a.m.

    While I do not want to place the blame all on the BYU side, as a graduate of that school I would like to call for greater civility from those who support that institution. Notre Dame is often cited as a great example of sportsmanship. I had the privilege of seeing similar sportsmanship at California Lutheran in Thousand Oaks. While our team lost a hard fought battle that day, I have never felt better about a loss. Prior to the match, the school's code of conduct was read out loud and it was followed. There was no loud criticism of refs despite the inevitable difficult calls, our players were not mocked, and the applause as we left the pitch seemed generous and genuine. I wish that BYU which claims to represent a group of Christians would institute such Christian policies. How about it Tom Holmoe? Will you lead the charge? It would, in my opinion, be the greatest legacy you could leave my alma mater.

  • mindgames Aurora, CO
    Nov. 23, 2010 4:08 a.m.

    Thank you for the article. I have been seeing more objective stories this year as the game is approaching. I think both sides are seeing the need to show more sportsmanship towards each other.

    We recognize that in a free society there will always be those who cross the line, but if a majority will stand up in defending good behavior the entire experience will be a positive experience.

    The game is to be enjoyed whether your favorite team wins or loses. I have always enjoyed attending games at the Air Force Academy because the fans are hospitable. A win or loss would always end with the fans around our section congratulating each other and listening respectfully to the Air Force fight song.

    I appreciate the efforts of Mr. Beckman and hope that this year the fans in the stands can be as respectful as the players on the field. Take a close look at the real players, the ones wearing the helmets, and see how they respect each other. As fans it seems like we could show the same respect for the opposing fans.

    Make a difference with team spirit and not bad actions.