What caused Mitt's defeat? Projects look at key factors

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  • tonyloaf New York, NY
    Nov. 15, 2010 7:36 p.m.

    Geoff at Dayton, WY: "If LDS would admit they are not Christians but are another religion alltogether [sic] then I would have respect for them and possibly vote for one. Until that happens the LDS church is just another con job."

    I like how you impugn the motives of LDS. You believe they know they are not Christians and they are intentionally trying to deceive people as to their true identity; as opposed to them being sincerely mistaken in their beliefs. Very Christian of you.

    So, if the LDS would admit that they are liars and con artists, then you would respect them and might vote for them. Interesting. You respect admitted liars and con artists and would choose them to hold public office. Why do I get the feeling that you are the one doing the con job?

  • tonyloaf New York, NY
    Nov. 15, 2010 4:30 p.m.

    Geoff at Dayton, WY: "The LDS church is not Christian, and in it's short history has never been considered Christian."

    That seems like a very unchristian attitude to take Geoff, especially for a true Christian like yourself. I think the Savior said "judge not, lest ye be judged." I think Christ is the one who will decide who is Christian and who isn't.

    Geoff: "suffice it to say that along with Christian Scientists and Jehovah's Witnesses the LDS church makes claims to be "the Real Christian" church. That urks me to the bone..."

    So what? You apparently make the same claim yourself, do you not? Or are you prepared to confess that your church is NOT "the Real Christian" church. I find it incredible that a Protestant would be bothered by that claim, since every Protestant church in existence is a break-off of some other church which it found to be in error and thus "not truly Christian." There are literally thousands of Protestant denominations. They obviously can't even agree among themselves what is true Christianity and what isn't.

  • iNKSpot Wilsonville, OR
    Nov. 15, 2010 3:59 p.m.

    The next time George Stephanopoulos asks Romney whether Arab leaders would be put off by Mormons' belief that Christ will reign personally in America, perhaps he could rejoin that they would find some comfort in the thought that Zion will be built in America and not in Palestine!

  • Geoff Dayton, WY
    Nov. 15, 2010 1:58 p.m.

    adding to my previous comment...

    I would have a very hard time voting for someone who believes the Book of Mormon is historically accurate. There is zero evidence for that claim. Unbelievers would say the same thing to me about Christians who believe the Bible is historically accurate, but they would have to ignore the mountains of scientific evidence that backs up much of the Bible. If mormons would say "Gee, the BoM is a neat book, but not 'true' in the same way the Bible is" then, again, I would feel differently about them.

    Question for you who believe the BoM...Is the Koran true? It was also presented to a "later day prophet" by an angel.

    So, you can fire away and call me a "bigot" or whatver, but I think you should know the truth about why I would not support Romney.

    Now, as for your question JM...Christians can answer the question "Who is Jesus Christ" better than Mormons can, and that is the most important question anyone can ever ask or answer

  • Geoff Dayton, WY
    Nov. 15, 2010 1:55 p.m.

    As an evangelical protestant christian republican I thought some of you mormons might like to know the reason some of us would not vote for Romney (or any other mormon).

    The LDS church is not Christian, and in it's short history has never been considered Christian. There are many too many reasons why this is true to be discussed here, but suffice it to say that along with Christian Scientists and Jehovah's Witnesses the LDS church makes claims to be "the Real Christian" church. That urks me to the bone (at least two of the previous comments made the claim). If LDS would admit they are not Christians but are another religion alltogether then I would have respect for them and possibly vote for one. Until that happens the LDS church is just another con job.

  • JM Lehi, UT
    Nov. 15, 2010 1:21 p.m.

    One of the saddest things in the Christian world is that so many good Christians are misled about LDS, usually by a few who sometimes are seeking money for their misinformation. We could do so much good working together, yet, LDS are ostracized, very much like early Saints, who were sometimes rejected by those like Saul, who read Gods word, waited for the Messiah, and couldnt accept that God would be begotten of lowly woman, live on earth, become man, and be exalted, never to lay down His body again.
    Even sadder, some of these Christians on the DN, reading Ash articles etc, are aware that they have often been misled by anti-LDS sources, and LDS are closest to Biblical Christians, yet they continue to promote misunderstanding.

    I dont think Obama is bad, but I do believe he is president because of divisions created by conservatives.
    Grace, cmtman, check FAIR etc, for polygamy, MM? im curious, please inform on what important questions those called born again can answer better than LDS? (important to me being: life purpose; Why evil exists, Hell, Jesus suffered, death, knowledge tree, etc? How: saved by loving grace without effort or following?

  • Larry Lawton Thayne, WY
    Nov. 15, 2010 10:28 a.m.

    I think Mr. Huckabee was certainly smart enough to know he couldn't win. By staying in the race, he split the conservatives, and assured the nomination of McCain. I feel his bigotry against "Mormons" was more important than his vaunted conservative principles.

    That said, I kept thinking "When will they campaign staff let Mitt be Mitt?" The answer appeared to be: "Not until the concession speech."

    I can't resist borrowing a line from the liberal camp, "We lost. The voters are dumb." The Bush administration appeared to lack competence. I thought the 2008 election would go to the most competent candidate.
    It turned out to be a popularity contest akin to electing the prom queen. Now, we live with the consequences.

  • A Guy With A Brain Enid, OK
    Nov. 15, 2010 12:26 a.m.

    To Billcarson of Mattapoisett, Ma (6:41AM post):

    So how is Romney personally responsible for the oil spill in this bay?

    You're doing an awful lot of complaining but said absolutely nothing as to why Romney is personally repsonsible for this oil spill.

    Was Romney pushing the barge when it ran aground?

    You know as well as I do that answer is "no"....

  • donn layton, Ut
    Nov. 14, 2010 7:50 p.m.

    Brentbot said ,"With regard to the "cult"issue Mitt believes in a First Century Jesus Christ, not a Fourth Century (Creedal) Jesus Christ. Mormons have a better understanding of Christianity than any other denomination."
    Roman Catholics are (Creedal) and voted conservative in November and they consider Mormonism a non-Christian religion,not a denomination and consider some protestants as "seperated brethren". They do unite on some social issues. If conservative Catholics unite with Evangelicals Romney will have a difficult time.

  • Jazzsmack Holladay, UT
    Nov. 14, 2010 5:55 p.m.

    RE: SLMG | 3:55 p.m

    The Democrat party has changed since Faust was a young man.

    Demcrats are now the party of the FAR LEFT, unions, and special interests,

    they are indeed a motley group of leftest extremism and socialism and special interest.

    YOu are welcome to believe what you want about the the demcrats, but they are NOT same party of a few decades ago.

    Communists and socialsts have said they no longer need to have thier own party becaase the Democrats taken on most of thier platform.

    TODAY, most MOrmons lean heavily to the right not necessarily republican, but toward conservatism, because that us where their values and principle are most likely to be found,

    That does not mean there are not LIBERAL mormons, but they are the minority, as they are in the country as a whole:

    41% conservative
    20% liberal
    the rest somewhere around the center

    Romney is clearly somewhere around the center.

    Romney NEVER flipped flopped in the true sense of the phrase,

    but change his mind over time on things like abortion as he because more mature, knowledgable and experienced,

    that is not a bad thing.

  • Grover Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 14, 2010 4:32 p.m.

    Interesting that some of the posts see the problem with Mitt as the media descriptions of him. The media are not the "base" of the Republican party. The evangelical right flank is the reason Mitt had to do verbal judo with his moderate to liberal stances that made him the Bay State governor. No Republicans are not all evangelicals, but every single candidate on the right knows they have to have those votes to be viable nationally. If Mitt wants to win he needs a new coalition that ignores the hard right and captures the middle ala the current POTUS.

  • SLMG Murtoa Australia, Victoria
    Nov. 14, 2010 3:55 p.m.

    Cats | 12:56 p.m. Nov. 14, 2010
    Provo, UT
    Mormons are heavily Republican because they believe in the conservative principles of the Republican Party.
    I guess it's hard for a Democrat to understand this since Democrats are just a motley crew of special interest groups who are each out to get what they can. Republicans are a group of people who are guided by principles they believe in.

    Cats, how rude of you to refer to good upstanding LDS Democrats "just a motley crew". President Faust was a Registered Democrat was he part of that motley crew? There are tens of thousands of LDS recommend holders that are democrats. Nothey are not "just a motley crew." Perhaps you need to travel outside of Utah and discover there is more to the world.

  • IFJazzFan Idaho Falls, ID
    Nov. 14, 2010 2:40 p.m.

    Anyone who watched the campaign closely could see the subversive attacks on Mormonism from Huckabee and McCain. A good example was the commercial from Huckabee that he ran in Iowa that made so many headlines about the cross in the background and whether or not it was intentional. The part that was missed by the media was the swipe he took at Romney. In the commercial he called himself "the true Christian candidate." I remember it clearly and as a Mormon know that was coded message for evangelicals. Prior to the commercial Huckabee was behind in the polls and ended up winning over Romney. Huckabee is bigoted. No doubt about it. Read his history. I think really if asked most Mormons would call themselves Independant but continue to support republican candidates because their conservative principles most match their own.

  • Elk Hair Caddis Sandy, UT
    Nov. 14, 2010 2:37 p.m.

    SLMG---"taking a company striping it bare, rebuilding to the satisfaction of the bankers and leaving many of the employees on the street with no job."

    It may be tough to stomach, but I welcome stripping the government bare, rebuilding it to the satisfaction of citizens and leaving lobyist,Union Boses, and Carrer politicians without Jobs.

  • SLMG Murtoa Australia, Victoria
    Nov. 14, 2010 1:37 p.m.

    REF: Cats 7:57am
    Obama did not create the financial mess that the country is in, he inherited it. It is going to take more than one term of the Presidency regardless of who holds the office to clean up that inherited mess.
    Everyone is goes on about what a great financial manager Romney is, they should do a little research and they will find he is not a builder but a raider of companys. Romney is known for taking a company striping it bare, rebuilding to the satisfaction of the bankers and leaving many of the employees on the street with no job. Romney does not connect with middle America. Before someone points out my address is in Australia, let me asure you I am an American citizen with blood that runs red, white & blue.

  • jmort SLO, CA
    Nov. 14, 2010 12:59 p.m.

    Mitt needs to do one simple thing to be electable: switch political parties. This would be one of his more minor flip-flops.

  • Cats Provo, UT
    Nov. 14, 2010 12:56 p.m.

    Mormons are heavily Republican because they believe in the conservative principles of the Republican Party. Evangelicals do NOT control the party, they are just one group of people who also tend to be Republican....and they are NOT the majority.

    I guess it's hard for a Democrat to understand this since Democrats are just a motley crew of special interest groups who are each out to get what they can. Republicans are a group of people who are guided by principles they believe in.

    Whether or not Evangelicals like Mormons is irrelevant. It's principle that keeps most Mormons in the Republican column.

  • jimhale Eugene, OR
    Nov. 14, 2010 12:53 p.m.

    As a Latter-Day Saint, I was torn during the 2008 presidential campaign.

    I would have liked to support someone of my faith for President. Governor Romney's family was a plus. At the time, I liked his efforts on health care in Massachusetts.

    But I found his flips on issues very disappointing. Being successful as an elected leader in his state probably means you need stands on issues that might not help you with the GOP base.

    But when your views when running in that home state do not jibe with LDS doctrine and then you modify those to be successful with the national GOP base, it creates a problem for you with voters of all stripes...including Latter Day Saints.

    I supported McCain.

    Then McCain selected Palin. Big Mistake.

    He should have chosen Romney. It's the economy, Stupid.

    But McCain couldn't bring himself to get past his own anti-Mormon attitudes....or disdain for Mitt's rise to prominence following the Salt Lake Olympics.

    You see, McCain, whose Senate committee had to approve the funds to bail Salt Lake out of the Corruption City Games, felt it was he who saved the Olympics -- not Mitt.

  • Richie Saint George, UT
    Nov. 14, 2010 11:31 a.m.

    Fantastic article, but the writers forgot MaCains give away of primary votes to Hickabee in Virgiania just to torpedo Romney. They also didn't discuss the Salt Lake Winter Olympics where MaCain was the driving force to make us look bad including the trial of the Olympic Committee leaders. It took the jury 30 minutes to come back with a not guilty verdict. I wish Fox News would dump Hickabee.

  • Howard Beal Provo, UT
    Nov. 14, 2010 10:21 a.m.

    No money, private or public need to be wasted here on a project or study. Mitt (or Huntsman if he ran) is a Mormon and that just doesn't jive with the Evangelicals. I've always wondered why Mormons are determined to stay with this party when they viewed as the evil step children at Thanksgiving dinner, relegated to the kiddie table in the basement.

  • History Nut Cedar Hills, UT
    Nov. 14, 2010 10:19 a.m.

    George Romney didn't suffer at all because of his religion. He got killed by the press when he switched his position on Viet Nam saying he was "brainwashed" by the Generals. The media cartoonists had a field day with soapsuds around Romney's head and Romney never recovered. Of course, he was right about Viet Nam.

    As opposed to his dad who was widely admired for his straight talk, Mitt comes across as willing to say and be anything just to get elected.

  • NorthboundZax Makanda, IL
    Nov. 14, 2010 9:07 a.m.

    Perpetuating the notion of Mitt - JFK parallel speeches is one instance where the media ironically paints it in Mitt's favor. However, the two speeches were perpendicular, rather than parallel. JFK explained in no uncertain terms that he would not be swayed by religious leaders in governing the country. In contrast, Mitt's main point was how central his faith was to governing - a faith that puts a lot of emphasis on listening to ecclesiastical leaders. For those that judge (rightly or wrongly) a Mormon POTUS as something to be wary of, his speech magnified the concern.

  • Bebyebe UUU, UT
    Nov. 14, 2010 8:33 a.m.

    He's a flip-flopper.

    He's mormon.

  • Reasonable Person Layton, UT
    Nov. 14, 2010 7:57 a.m.

    Yes, Mitt has business experience (and so did his Deputy Dawg, Meg Whitman).

    Government is not a business.

    You can't bust up the government, sell off the debris, and then re-incorporate it in a tax haven like the Cayman Islands.

    Mitt would be great at outsourcing the government to India.

    As an LDS friend of ours said "I'm not voting for him because he's Mormon."
    But said friend knew nothing about Romney, other than the 2002 Olympics.

    He knew nothing about Mitt's liberal record as a governor, or his health care legislation.

  • Cats Provo, UT
    Nov. 14, 2010 7:57 a.m.

    Every intelligent person reserves the right to change his/her mind. Unfortunately, that has become characterized as flip-flopping for Mitt Romney.

    In addition, Massachussetts health care was passed by the legislature and many provisions were vetoed by Mitt. His veto was over ridden. He didn't agree with many provisions of the law. However, that's a subtle distinction that most people can't seem to get.

    I hope he can be elected president. Things are so desperate now that we really need a man like him to get our country out of the mess that Obama has created. However, religious bigotry is a very hard thing to overcome. I hope he can do it.

  • John C. C. Payson, UT
    Nov. 14, 2010 7:52 a.m.

    With Mitt Romney it wasn't just about religion. But when the Latter-day Saints are portrayed negatively in the media it says more about the media than it does the Church. Since the truth is its own defense, fair-minded people eventually learn whom to trust.

    I haven't heard much about Senator Reid's membership in the Church being used against him.

  • Billcarson Mattapoisett, Ma
    Nov. 14, 2010 6:41 a.m.

    Look at the ongoing oil spill property damage lawsuit Mitt left behind in Massachusetts !

    Mitt Romney was the 70th Governor of Massachusetts from Jan 2,2003 to Jan 4,2007. During his one term the Buzzards Bay oil spill happened during April 2003 .

    On April 27, 2003, eight years ago the Bouchard Barge B-120 hit an obstacle in Buzzards Bay, creating a 12-foot rupture in its hull and discharging an estimated 100,000 gallons of No. 6 oil. The oil is known to have affected an estimated 90 miles of shoreline, killed 450 numerous bird species, and recreational use of the bay, such as shell fishing and boating.

    Since the 2003 oil spill the US Coast Guard has appealed the 2004 Massachusetts Oil Spill Prevention Act and one Massachusetts property damage lawsuit has dragged on for eight years. Republican Mitt Romney is laying the groundwork for a possible White House campaign in 2012, hiring a team of staff members and consultants.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Nov. 14, 2010 6:23 a.m.

    I have no reason to dispute this study, but it is only one factor among many as to why Romney did not succeed in 2008. The study is incomplete and presents only one slice of what happened. Romney did not connect with the voters for many reasons. He seemed stiff and less than authentic. He cannot connect to the middle class because he came from the privileged class. He has a history of flip-flopping and his positions were never clear. And in listening to his speeches since 2008, I'm not sure any of that changes. If he pulls a McCain and tries to be something he is not, he will lose again. I have my views on how he should present himself, and it is not in running from his record.

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    Nov. 14, 2010 5:43 a.m.

    I am sure the anti-Mormon angles were a major factor in derailing Mitt. But he also did not run a stellar campaign that grabbed voter's hearts or minds. In a year when voters were leaning more moderate, he was a newly born conservative. He is not a compelling speaker but whatever he channeled in his dropping-out speech seemed to have more passion and come from the heart.

    Romney should run on his strengths which are exactly what the country needs: a smart "turnaround" business-savvy leader who will do what he says (unlike Obama) and get us back on track with a balanced budget through reduced taxes, smart healthcare legislation and a Reagan-like sense of values.

    If people were to see Romney and his family under the spotlight again as a leading contender or as President, much of the prejudice would melt away.

  • Elk Hair Caddis Sandy, UT
    Nov. 14, 2010 5:10 a.m.

    My wife and I were leaning toward Huckabee but that all ended with his bigoted comments about Mormons, Satan, and Christ. There are good and bad people of all faiths. What makes a "Christian" is how they treat others not how their beliefs are different from others.

  • BrentBot Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 14, 2010 4:13 a.m.

    Mitt Romney has the right qualifications (the only one with non-governmental (Bain, Olympics) leadership experience, a deep-seated faith, a vision for this country's future, and an exemplary personal and family life. He won most of the 2008 GOP debates.

    Mitt has the organizational skills to help run a campaign in the general election and run the country. Mitt, who believes in free enterprise, would appeal to the Independents and some Democrats for his unique qualifications in these times of economic disaster brought on by the Democratic Party

    With regard to the "cult" issue, Mitt believes in a First Century Jesus Christ, not a Fourth Century (Creedal) Jesus Christ. Mormons have a better understanding of Christianity than any other denomination, according to a 2010 Pew Forum poll.

    11 of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were non-Trinitarian Christians. Those who insist on a narrow definition of Christianity are doing our Republic an injustice.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 14, 2010 2:12 a.m.

    A gallup poll showed that people in general are more willing to vote for a mormon than a 72 year old (mccain) so it's probably something else than merely anti-mormon stuff. Maybe Republicans didn't like Romney-care (after all, it's very similar to Obama-care), or the fact he's called himself more liberal than Ted Kennedy. Maybe he lost because of his perceived total flip-flop on issues. If you want a key factor, then look at that.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Nov. 14, 2010 2:01 a.m.

    He's mormon.

    Catholics, Jews, Muslims, and Evangelicals didn't vote for him. That's why he lost. Enough said.

  • Utah Girl Vernal, UT
    Nov. 14, 2010 12:36 a.m.

    I wish the media could be re-educated, and the evangelicals would keep their twisted comments to themselves. Mitt would make a great president. He's smart, he's very experienced, especially in financial matters, and I believe he would do a good job if given a chance.