Community leaders urge moderate approach to immigration reform

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  • yellowbird Clearfield, UT
    Nov. 18, 2010 3:11 p.m.

    Lest we forget, the LDS Church's 12th Article of Faith says: We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

    Seems to me that means doing things legally, albeit with compassion.

    I notice the church didn't have anyone actually sign the compact, they just said it was a nice document and voiced their support of it. The document itself doesn't address the laws or adherence to the laws. The compact is fluff; yes, nice fluff, for political points and 'good feelings'.

    For those of us who have had identity theft or who have had to work jobs for less pay in order to abide by our laws and at least have a job, I say, let's help them be here legally, or send the whole family home until they can come here legally. Meanwhile, those who wish can work to increase the number of openings for legal immigrants.

  • Andy Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 16, 2010 2:54 p.m.

    No big deal. Illegal immigration is a boon to the economy - illegals generally provide cheap labor and pay taxes which they will never collect SS check. IN fact I imagine many of our economic woes would be reduced if we grew our market by allowing more immigration. Let them stay and compete in a marketplace that thrives on competition.

    The only argument I've heard is the drain on social services. Make them citizens then.

    And if you don't like that then provide less expensive alternatives to ER room visits and ESL teachers in classrooms.

    In short - hate the game, don't hate the player. To which I add change the game so it's beneficial to you, don't destroy the system because of a relatively small expense.

    Sandstrom's comments regarding ripping families apart are both incredibly short sighted and insensitive. It is a bad idea to deport parents and leave a bunch of parentlless children to burden state.

    The right answer is Regan's answer - amnesty.

  • mammalou Somewhere in the USA, UT
    Nov. 16, 2010 10:21 a.m.

    I agree that we have been somewhat "imhumane" to the illegal population. If we had taken a more "parental" role and disaplined thse individuals at the moment the were doing wrong (coming here illegally) then we wouldn't have to be dealing with how to fix it now, that does put us in a difficult position.

    I think, however, just as you would with any child, there has to be a time and point that we take the consequenses of our actions. Yes, it would have probably been easier to deport these people before we let the stay so long, but that doesn't mean they should get a free ride. How about we don't punish them in furture attemps to come here leagally. We will not hold it against you that you broke our law already, but you have to get back in line. And we could "humanly" give them tickets back to their country for their whole family.

    I am so sick of this debate daily, do the right thing and get on....send them home now!

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Nov. 15, 2010 9:49 p.m.


    A wonderful quote from Elder Oaks. Thank you. It expresses so much of what I often feel.


    The gospel is about life with God. Politics is just how we live with each other while we are here. One is eternal, the other is not.

    In our area we have a lot of folks who are from Mexico and Central America. They are generally good, hard-working people.

    Are they here legally? I don't know. I don't ask and frankly I don't care. While I am at church, my only concern is am I helping my brothers and sisters move ahead in the gospel.

    I don't go around telling the smokers or drinkers not to come. I wouldnt go around telling anyone here illegally not to come either.

    I wont be badgering God to notice their sins in particular. Im too busy hoping He will just have some mercy when He notices mine.

    I do not believe that God has given me any revelation on the behalf of my Spanish speaking brothers and sisters. I suppose that is only fair because they apparently havent gotten any for me either.

  • Anon 64 Oahu, HI
    Nov. 14, 2010 7:10 p.m.


    The Reform I want to see is the Laws Enforced and the Illegals Returned to their homes, as quickly as possible. This is for the safety and well being and for jobs for the U.S. Citizens.

    If you say that the American Citizens will not do the jobs that the illegals are doing, then A. Think Again, B.If that is true then it should be very easy to find the Illegals.

    I also want to see the U.S. Borders protected to such an extent that they cannot get in again.

    We could put our Troops that are on Dwell Time to work along the Border in short shifts. Say two week deployments with 1 month base time.

    I have nothing against Dwell Time but as a Vet I would rather be doing somthing more useful then getting ready for the next long deployment or the the next inspection.

    There is nothing wrong with patroling our Borders. Good Training and of course we are Not at War.

    If the Mexican or Canadian Goverment does not like us protecting our Borders then so what.

    The other option is to charge them for the cost of our illegals.

  • awsomeron1 Oahu, HI
    Nov. 14, 2010 6:53 p.m.

    If you are Illegal you need to be cought, processed, and deported as quickly as possible.

    There is No Moderation.

    The soluation to the problem of needing illegals if there is a problem. As i think a set of don't work, don't eat laws would take care of the vast most of it.

    Would be to allow more peeople in the legal way.DNA and Chip Them, so you can keep better track of them.

    If everyohne was had DNA taken a where chippped at Birth then it would be know big deal. It would be just like MGM almost every male has it done, only with this it would include the females.

    The chip could be scanned. Without the chip No Services. No Right to Work, No Education etc etc.

    It would be nice to be able to know who everyone is.

    If we do not act soon we will soon have the illegal elderly and the costs of that situation.

    Unless your life is in danger, and I do not mean social danger. Then there is No Reason for an Illegal to stay here.

  • Chip Douglas Cedar Hills, UT
    Nov. 14, 2010 8:28 a.m.

    Mark Willes has shown some exceptional leadership on this issue. It's too bad he isn't the Governor or the Senate President. We need our elected officials to lead on difficult issues, not manage difficult issues.

  • Bobo Magna, UT
    Nov. 13, 2010 8:40 p.m.

    I voted a few days ago to elect people to represent me in the legislature. Who are these people creating a compact as if they speak for anyone but their own interests (which, by the way, they are strangely silent about stating publicly)? Do they make money from immigration? Do they have political agendas? Are they blindly following some principle of a political philosophy no matter what evidence argues against it? The time for immigration into the U.S. is over. It now only serves the perverse interests of the elites or of the politically dangerous.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Nov. 12, 2010 7:16 p.m.

    CJ - I am sure there are a number of misdemeanor infractions you have done in the recent past that you have not been prosecuted to the fulness of the law, unless you are one of those few perfect people. I am pretty sure if you had the chance to get your family out of poverty, and the biggest risk was a civil misdemeanor infraction, your principles wouldn't keep your family in poverty.

    And we hear a lot about this "identity theft" crime we hear about. Lets cut past the clutter and discuss the reality. These social security numbers these people are obtaining aren't being used to by cars, or obtain credit cards - but jobs. Jobs where social security taxes are being withheld. Withholdings for which they will never collect.

    Is what is going on right - heck no. But lets take a reality pill and understand things for what they are, not the hype.

    And CJ, church based charities are putting money where their mouths are. The Catholic Charities Archdiocese of Baltimore alone provided nearly 100 million dollars in services to the poor last year.

    Your statement shows you really have no idea who funds what.

  • JBrady Murray, Ut
    Nov. 12, 2010 6:25 p.m.

    In the LDS Church statement they accept the fact that we have a right to enforce our immigration laws, and that "All persons subject to a nation's laws are accountable for their acts in relation to them."

    I see nothing wrong with that.

    What they are calling for is moderate laws and enforcement. I think we want that and compassion for all of the people who break our laws.

    It does not mean we do not want our laws enforced.

  • CJ Murray, UT
    Nov. 12, 2010 5:12 p.m.

    I was just wondering if there are any other laws this fine group of altruistic people think we should not enforce. I don't think they spent ten minutes worrying about anything but their own self interests if the truth were to be known. There are a number of laws I would like to break while we are waiting to "reform" them to suit the needs of the special interests of the state. In the future let's see how many other laws they want to "moderate" until they can change them.
    I, for one, am sick and tired of church groups in particular whining about this issue. The church groups can get together and solve this issue by putting their money where their mouths are. If you want illegals to have free health care, education, and jobs, why don't you pay for it? Put up or shut up. You all talk about what "Christ would do", shut up and do it yourselves. You are always charitable with everyone else's money and resources but never want to part with your own.

  • We the People Sandy, UT
    Nov. 12, 2010 3:59 p.m.

    I see no inconsistency with the Church's statement and a tough stance on immigration. The statement directs those involved in the debate to refrain from using silly superlatives and attacking those with whom they disagree. I hope that all sides of the debate can subscribe to this ideal. Before a government acts, I would hope that citizens would engage in a civil, yet fierce debate on how to proceed. This debate ensures that whatever the outcome, the country has considered many alternatives and after much thought, has chosen the best option. The statement asks only for a refrain from knee-jerk reactions, but not an open-border policy.

    The statement explicitly reserves the right for nations to protect their sovereignty but encourages a thoughtful process. I believe that the statement is consistent with the Church's mission of love and claimed belief in being subject to governments and sustaining the law.

  • Vengeance70 Payson, UT
    Nov. 12, 2010 3:35 p.m.

    I am really tired of how the media is constantly trying to tug at the heart strings of the families that have broken the law and came here illegally and are getting a free ride, and avoiding income tax.
    It is apparent that the federal government isn't going to address this, now it appears that the state is going to go soft, and the church is going to spread more guilt, and afraid to be politically incorrect. We believe in sustaining the law, and its consequences. What you sew you shall reap. I see another Mexican flag and I am going to explode.

  • Another Perspective Bountiful, UT
    Nov. 12, 2010 3:17 p.m.

    Some of these people crossed a border of one of the southern states. Others their parents took them across. These peoples heritage was taken from them by the same people who took Indian land, often in violation of treaties that were then in force.

    Please Lord forgive those we call immigrants if they don't take it seriously when these same people (their decendents) get all up in arms about the law which is about as serious as a minor traffic violation and how it must never be broken.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Nov. 12, 2010 2:14 p.m.

    Walt Nicoles - you raise an interesting point here, that really has deep consequences. There are a few here on this board who hold very conservative views that quote speeches given by President Benson before he was in the first presidency about his views on politics. They accuse that anyone who does not follow these opinions expressed are disrespecting their religion and are in fact in conflict with their religion.

    And yet, here in turn we have many questioning the weight of the statement given here on this subject but the LDS church as not carrying the endorsement or representing the view of church leadership.

    I really don't think there is much disagreement on the subject of illegal being exactly what it says it is. But it is how we apply the law, compassionately, that is in the cross hairs of this discussion. There are very few that have not broken a law at some time or another, overtly or by accident. But few have their homes taken from them, families torn apart, lose their jobs or called very harsh terms for breaking a civil misdemeanor. It is at that level discourse needs to be moderated and compassionate.

  • Utah Conservative Lindon, UT
    Nov. 12, 2010 2:09 p.m.

    I am pro-immigration -- legal immigration. If there is a true need for imported cheap labor, then we should allow for a legal migrant worker pass to fill the need. However, illegal immigrants routinely steal identities, commit fraud for welfare and other benefits. They represent a significant portion of our jailed inmates. Saying that all of that is OK, and we should keep families together and be compassionate just doesn't cut it. There is a place for compassion, but also a place for rule of law. Is it OK from someone to steal bread if they are hungry? No, but we also shouldn't put them away for life for the offense. People in Mexico are "hungry" fro what the US offers. But it doesn't give them the right to steal from us.

  • XelaDave Salem, UT
    Nov. 12, 2010 12:42 p.m.

    A shot at an explination for all the hatred and annimosity- blue collar jobs and many others have dried up in America- welcome to market economic 101- this makes people angry- anger must be directed somewhere- since I love markets and democracy I cannot direct my anger at coprorations and other entities- I want what they have and do not really care how they got it- so I will direct my anger at the abstract illegal immigrant and make up numbers about what they take from me- jobs, tax dollars, etc. and I will direct my anger at government becasue they must be to blame somehow- naturally my logic is full of horrific inconsistancies but I will drape the flag around myself and proclaim religion to make myself feel better and justify my hate- very sad- systems produce results- we are seeing the results of a post industrial society- it will take several more decades for that to work itself thru- enjoy the ride

  • Phill Provo, UT
    Nov. 12, 2010 12:22 p.m.

    WOW, it's rather sad to see so called "stake leaders" of the church questioning the first presidency's intent. It's clear that many have diverted to the "Extremes" of polarized "ideologies". Brethren, don't be deviated in the name of politics or other labels. As Latter Day Saints we follow Christ. This clearly shows how "conservativeS" are been driven off away from the moderation that gospel entails.

    Elder Oaks said " I find some wisdom in liberalism, some wisdom in conservatism, and much truth in intellectualismbut I find no salvation in any of them."
    What happened with following the example of our Church Leaders? Some of you are praising "radio or TV hosts" and taking their words and using their words in these debate. Let's not loose track on that brethren.

  • American Spartan Taylorsville, Utah
    Nov. 12, 2010 11:58 a.m.

    Utah Compact signing session outside Utah Capitol building is a publicity stunt.

    "Moderate" is a code word for "preferred liberalism."

    Who benefits from open immigration, including illegal? Displacing native Utah population with deprivation of employment, increased crime, increased expenditure for education and law enforcement, and welfare subsidization by citizen taxpayers.

    This is a charade. I sent the letter to a few duly-elected Utah lawmakers urging them to ignore Utah Compact as political grandstanding that mocks and disregards rule of law and proper assimilation for cheap labor and increased church membership. It's all about money and alternative political landscape in new demographic.

  • Razzle2 Bluffdale, UT
    Nov. 12, 2010 11:38 a.m.

    "Only the Dark Side believes in absolutes" - Star Wars Episode 1

    Compassion gives everyone their chance in court.

    - Children born in the US are US citizens which is also the law. Like it or not is has to be since many countries don't accept automatic citizenship from children born in another country, so you can't deport them to a country that does not accept them. Children with parents from two countries may not have a country. Some Utahn's would split the family up.
    - Harsh prejudices of one group may cause prejudices of legal immigrants or worse our own citizens. Speak English idea is against all people that are different and has nothing to do with illegal status.

    I work in Brazil and I dont speak Portuguese. I am so thankful the Brazilians are more tolerant than some of these ignorant commenters.

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 12, 2010 10:49 a.m.

    @ abbygirl1994
    Walt Nicholes has a point. Else why didn't the church in fact sign the compact? It did not.

  • Meg Portage, MI
    Nov. 12, 2010 10:43 a.m.

    Amazing how many people use "the law" to justify their harsh stance. Well, let's change the law and let in lots more legal immigrants, acknowledging the fact that we need them to pick our fruit and build our houses and wash our dishes when we go out to eat. Why is compassion such a difficult concept? Maybe because the hearts of so many are waxing cold. Lots of hatred out there.

  • radically_independent Orem, Utah
    Nov. 12, 2010 10:43 a.m.

    I guess now is the time to see where people's true loyalties lie. If moderation and compassion is a concept one has a hard time with, perhaps that is most telling about who and what they stand for.

    As to those who thing we need an iron handed application of the law, minus compassion, they really don't understand how the law is applied in this country day in and day out.

    Everyday speeders are let off with warnings. Everyday people who have caused accidents that have hurt or killed loved ones are not prosicuted for manslaugher as they could be - the are seen as having already lost enough. Everyday debtors are allowed to pay a fraction of their depts through bankruptcy law. Everyday tax cheats are let pay lower fines. Everyday hardship is considered in sentencing. This list goes on.

    There are plenty who are not deserving of such compassion, and don't get it. And that is also fine.

    The whole idea though that somehow being compassionate - which doesn't mean turn a blind eye - is a bad thing is telling of some of Utah's culture.

    Its the Rush versus Monson... who will win out?

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 12, 2010 10:40 a.m.

    Despite the Church's artfully ambiguous statement, Sandstrom is right, his bill is right, he is honorably doing the job he was hired to do, and in no way is he violating the actual, true principles of the LDS doctrine.

    And SHAME on this disgusting display of corruption, these Chamber, Sutherland and other such CORRUPT persons and organizations, driven as they are by GREED and PROFIT, coming before us in their suits and ties and pretenses of moral and spiritual superiority!

  • abbygirl1994 East Carbon, UT
    Nov. 12, 2010 10:28 a.m.

    Illegals, do what we American's do.. WORK! No more free everything.. Those who break the law, deport. If parents are hard working good people but their children are gang members deport. Become American citizens, most of the illegals I know don't want to become American citizens, why would they when they can get free everything?? Many don't want to learn to speak English..tough.. learn English. My children were forced to learn some Spanish in the 70's WHY?? My Norwegian ancestors had to learn to speak english. Can't you understand why American's are angry??

  • Poqui Murray, UT
    Nov. 12, 2010 10:28 a.m.

    To Walt Nicholes and others who think alike:

    I know that you don't want to accept the truth but any statement released by the Church has the First Presidency stamp of approval. And every article published in official Church magazines has to go through correlation too. I know personally, I work closely with that department.

    The Church has taken a stance, it is not pro-illegal immigration as most of you say it is. The stance is a Christian stance of moderation and avoiding Draconian measures.

    There is NO inconsistency with the 12th Article of Faith and the Church's position. If there is an inconsistency then it's in your mind. Your task is to find the consistency, if you want to believe that the statement from the prophet is an inspired one. Or you can remain thinking that the prophet is wrong on this one. But that is a very dangerous slippery slope if you are a card-carrying Mormon.

    "Be still and know that I am God..."

  • ouisc Farmington, UT
    Nov. 12, 2010 10:01 a.m.

    May I get a pass on my crimes? Getting arrested really puts a damper on my ability to provide for my family.

  • weedeater Murray, UT
    Nov. 12, 2010 9:57 a.m.

    Irony; that the right, who champion "free" markets now begrudge business leaders who want cheap labor so they can make more profit.

  • Patrick Henry West Jordan, UT
    Nov. 12, 2010 9:56 a.m.

    "We are different from Arizona," said Attorney General Mark Shurtleff, who signed the compact. "We do things differently here. We want to show people we can do something about this issue in a compassionate and lawful way."

    Enforcement is not the only way to uphold the rule of law, Shurtleff said.

    "The key is to distinguish between federal responsibilities and state responsibilities," he said. "They're responsible for securing the border. We here in Utah are responsible for enforcing state laws."

    Rep. Paul Ray, R-Clearfield, who has been open about his support of tough immigration policy, argued, however, that states enforce federal laws on a regular basis. Bank robbery, kidnapping and extortion are all federal laws, he said.

    "A law is a law," he said. "I don't think law enforcement should pick and choose which laws they enforce."

    Thank you Rep. Paul Ray you sir are a true American Hero.
    Shurtleff hit the road jack and don't come back! Oh and by the way Shurtleff your attempt to appear conservative at the Republican Convention was nice. Keep up the charade.

  • RShackleford Saint George, UT
    Nov. 12, 2010 9:25 a.m.

    So this group wants cheap labor and people filling their church pews.

    I'm LDS and I do not support what is in this compact. It would be different if the illegals they are protecting (and condoning their crimes) fled a country that did not let them practice the freedom of religion.

    What Crimes can I choose to not obey and still hold a temple recommend? Can I cheat on my taxes????...can i bare false witness with a forged SS Card..Get paid cash under the table..Utah Children have their ID stolen all the time by these same same people that are being baptized and are bing called to leadership possessions. Why are we baptizing those that continue to commit crimes?

    And what about the fine upstanding employer that knowingly hires those with fake IDs....Can you really, in good conscience look your Bishop in the eye and say there is nothing amiss in your life?

  • jbc1 Mount Carmel, UT
    Nov. 12, 2010 8:21 a.m.

    In the 1950's, President Eisenhower was concerned about the lack of employment for Veterans of WWII and Korea. Along with members of Congress like Sen. McLaren of Nevada, An Immigration Act was passed. At the same time, General Swing, the chief of the Immigration and Naturalization Service was ordered to close the border and begin rounding up the illegals. I was part of that effort as a Border Patrolman. Within three years the illegals were back in Mexico and the border closed. Unemployment was under control and the country was doing well. We did it then and can do it now. It is not a matter of compassion. It is a matter of necessity for the future of the USA.

  • Brett Nielson Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 12, 2010 8:08 a.m.

    Thank goodness that at least some political leaders and well and community leaders and even the LDS church support the compact. It's nice to know that at least some of us have compassion and sanity with regards to this issue.

  • Walt Nicholes Orem, UT
    Nov. 12, 2010 8:00 a.m.

    The Church is in a no-win position.

    If they say "obey the laws of the land" they are accused of being uncharitable.

    If they say "be charitable and compassionate" they are accused of abandoning principles set by Joseph Smith.

    If they say nothing at all they are accused of not setting a proper guideline for their members.

    But it is worth noting that the statement was not attributed to the President of the Church, or the Quorum of the Twelve. It was a statement released by the public relations arm of the church. It could have authored in the Presiding Bishop's office for all anyone knows.

    OFFICIAL directions from the church come in letters from the First Presidency, or Proclamations from the Twelve. Not even statements in the church magazines can be construed as official unless they are attached to an official statement from one of these presiding bodies.

    It appears that the Brethren are not united in this matter - hence they are officially silent. They do seem to be united on the idea that that the debate should be civil and compassionate.

  • CJ Murray, UT
    Nov. 12, 2010 7:47 a.m.

    We need to let everyone who signed this know how we feel about them and what we plan to do about it. Most of these groups profit from the presence of illegals and that is why they are behind it. The overwhelming majority of Utahns want the law enforced and deportation the result. These groups think they run the state and we need to send a message that they don't. The compassion they are crying about is phony and doesn't extend to the victims of illegal aliens that you never hear about from the state sponsored media.

  • patriotandmore Spanish Fork, UT
    Nov. 12, 2010 7:13 a.m.

    Double standard. What ever happened to the 12th Article of Faith: "We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law." Omit laws that pertain to ILLEGAL immigration? If a U. S. citizen breaks the law, the hammer comes down from the church. If an illegal breaks the law, all is forgiven. What about this approach: level the playing field and everyone obey the law. Illegals go home and come back legally.

  • Bebyebe UUU, UT
    Nov. 12, 2010 7:11 a.m.

    The Catholic church wants central American illegals here since most are members. Are there hispanic LDS members too?

    Compassion is way down the list on motives when it comes to religions. Why is Mormon church involved?

  • GaryS Leesburg, VA
    Nov. 12, 2010 7:10 a.m.

    How about a moderate approach to tax evasion? Just because some choose not to pay taxes, it does not make them bad people. They deserve our love, respect, and financial support.

    The same with people who steal cars. They're not criminals; they're just helpless and doing the best they can. It would be racist and mean-spirited to break up their families.

    When a company breaches a contract or fails to pay its employees (speaking from personal experience here), that's a civil statute, not a criminal one, and government should not get involved. We can't enforce every single violation--it's not efficient!

    Would the "community leaders" support any of these moderate positions?

  • SLars Provo, UT
    Nov. 12, 2010 6:47 a.m.

    Are they concerned about what they perceive as "hateful speech" or their bottom line. I see nothing hateful about people wanting others to obey the law. I do understand that their are groups that fear enforcement of any kind.

    The Salt Lake chamber is seeing profit above morals and ethics. Is it right to ask the public to provide welfare for your bottom line? The cheap labor and sales in your stores come at a large price to our government services.

    If we want to come out of this recession fast, we must cut government spending, and put citizens to work. Enforcing immigration laws does that, but at a cost to your bottom line.

    It's the fear of enforcement you perceive, not hateful speech.

  • G Blake West Jordan, UT
    Nov. 12, 2010 1:49 a.m.

    I'll feel better about a moderate position on illegal immigration when all the folks who are feeling so compassionate will publish their addresses, then leave their doors unlocked for illegals to stay with them. I suspect none will be doing so.
    What do you say? Can they stay with you? Indefinitely?

  • kitchy Bountiful, UT
    Nov. 12, 2010 12:41 a.m.

    Breaking the law is breaking the law. Deal with people who break the law in an aggressive manner and stop the liberal and politically correct ideas that we should condone wrong doing. Come into the country legally and then you can be treated with compassion, otherwise stay in your own country. With this attitude we would be compassionate to Brian David Mitchel. He broke the law too. No, compassion is for those who do what is right and prison or deportation for those who do not do the right thing.

    Nov. 12, 2010 12:34 a.m.

    I don't believe any of us want to live in a land where breaking the law is tolerated to give us a batter life. Such thought could justify any criminal activity.

    I am perplexed by the comment from the LDS Church, "Forced separation of working parents from their children weakens families and damages society."

    Most people who break laws are jailed, and separated by their actions from family. The only way to prevent this, is teaching others to follow the law.

    I have read numerous articles in the media, I don't recall any articles where parents were deported, and their children were forced to stay here.

  • William A Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 12, 2010 12:21 a.m.

    Next up: the Utah Stolen Car Compact - "Enforcement with Compassion"

    "We recognize that car theft is an awful thing, nevertheless there are hundreds of thousands of people driving around this very moment in stolen cars, and it would be impossible to arrest them all and they're going to drive them anyway, and how could we be so cruel as to deny these otherwise decent people a source of transportation? So we'll arrest them, if we catch them (maybe), but make no special effort to do so. But until we arrest them it would only be the compassionate thing to pay for their insurance, and their maintenance, and their fuel."


    There is a reason no lawmaker would ever propose such a "solution" to car theft. Yet that is exactly the type of "solution" they've given us for illegal immigration.

  • William A Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 12, 2010 12:03 a.m.

    Let me fix that first sentence for you: "A broad swath of people with 6-figure incomes, almost all of whom live in Federal Heights/Capitol Hill, came together to encourage Utah to continue the same failed approach to illegal immigration that has led to 12 million illegal immigrants currently living in the US."

    Fixed that for you.

    And it's nice to hear this group telling the state that it shouldn't 'usurp federal power.' They surely have no problem with Utah usurping federal law when giving illegal immigrants driver's licenses or in-state tuition.

    In case they missed it, one of the underlying themes of the latest election was the public's growing distrust of the ruling class. The electorate threw ~70 Democratic incumbents out of office, and GOP voters turned their noses up at one establishment-preferred candidate after another.

    But the news only gets worse: the economic prospects of Americans (not to mention the balance sheets of the federal and state gummints) will continue to be grim unless and until America starts to control its borders. Our economy doesn't need 12 million high school dropouts, and it never did.

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 11:57 p.m.

    positiverealist, you need to clarify. If someone is here shopping, visiting or overstayed a visa a few days, then it is a civil infraction. If a person crosses the border with intent to work, it's a felony.

    When they do work without permission, it's multiple felonies.

    The civil infraction part is misleading, as it applies to circumstances where one could be stuck here through no fault of their own, such as transportation troubles.

    We sew the seeds of future problems by our actions today. We have enforced immigration laws before, we need to return to the days of enforcement.

    The arguments used by the leaders quoted in this article show the need for enforcement. The excuse of dividing families show us how the lack of enforcement creates more problems.

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 11:35 p.m.

    After 25 years of lack of enforcement, the calls for moderation fall on deaf ears.

    A call for following the laws of the land seems more appropriate from religious and civic leaders.

  • JBrady Murray, Ut
    Nov. 11, 2010 11:12 p.m.

    It's reasonable and compassionate to enforce the laws of the land equally against all who break it.

    It's very difficult to sit in Church on the sabbath, and be taught one thing, while watching our religious leaders do the opposite.

    I can understand the shift away from organized religion.

    We are talking about criminal activity. Marking it as civil is deceptive and dishonest.

  • Morgan Duel Taylorsville, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 10:03 p.m.

    Hmm. What happened to "We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law."

    The Compact declares that immigration reform is the responsibility of the federal government.

    What if the Federal Government does not want to enforce it's own Law?

  • working class Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 10:02 p.m.

    I commend the LDS Church on its humane position - it is the right one. Now I wish it was more supportive of people being able to get affordable health care, reigning in its tea party subsidiary the Deseret News!!!!!

  • Upson Downs Sandy, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 9:20 p.m.

    You can go ahead and cancel my account with the Deseret News public opinion forum. It is plain to see that you are going to strike any opinions aimed at the leadership of the LDS or Catholic Churches and leaders of certain law enforcement agencies that have abandoned their respect for the laws of Utah and the laws of the U.S. When will the LDS Church and it's leaders adhere to the twelth article of faith and tell law breakers to go home and come back in accordance with U.S. law?

  • localblue Sandy, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 8:10 p.m.

    Glad to see there are some who see this issue in more rational and fair terms. I know they are breaking the law but the vast majority of them are doing so only to put food on the families of their families. And the vast majority of them are not hurting others in doing so. Please see the data as what I am saying is a fact. The analogy I like to use is if two parents are speeding to get to the hospital because the mother is in labor, they are breaking the law. But they are only trying to better themselves and likely not affecting others. Since law enforcement has always turned a blind eye to this type of illegal behavior, it continues to happen and is tolerated. Same goes for illegal immigration. Sure, secure the borders, do something about crime, etc. but for those already here living good American law-abiding lives, find a way to allow them to stay. Maybe they can pay a fine, prove that they are learning English, study American history, etc. But just forcing them back to their countries when they have nothing to return to is unnecessary and cruel.

  • SLars Provo, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 8:03 p.m.

    It's amazing that Churches can use the "civil" not crime argument, when a few minutes reading sect 8 of the immigration code shows that is incorrect.

    We focus on the hardships of those here illegally, but ignore the hardships they cause the citizens and legal immigrants.

    We preach compassion for only those who break the law? Where have honesty and integrity gone?

    What other laws can Americans break out of compassion?

  • sg Santa Clarita, CA
    Nov. 11, 2010 7:23 p.m.

    Sounds to me this "pact" just passed the buck of handling immigration to the lovely. Like they're about to do anything about it. Sorry, but the LDS church is wrong in its stance. Obey the laws of the land. Illegals should be found, arrested, deported along with their entire families if need be. Let's stop sugar coating this epidemic and down-right invasion of all illegals no matter where they come from. I'm LDS and I disagree with their stance. Whatever happened to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar? We were taught to uphold the laws of the land. Unfortunately, our wonderfully corrupt federal government is unwilling to protect its citizenry from this invasion.

  • Ronald Mortensen Bountiful, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 7:22 p.m.

    Does this mean that the community leaders support the arrest and prosecution of the 75% of illegal aliens who commit felony document and Social Security fraud? Source: Social Security Administration as reported in the New York Times.

    Does this mean that the community leaders support the arrest, prosecution, incarceration and deportation of illegal aliens who are using the Social Security numbers of an estimated 50,000 Utah children which is identity theft/fraud, a felony under Utah law? Source: Investigations by Utah Workforce Services.

    Or are the community leaders willfully ignoring these crimes and sacrificing the American children who suffer very real and serious harm including the loss of their good names, destroyed credit and corrupted medical records with life threatening consequences in order to further the interests of the 75% of illegal aliens who are committing major job-related felonies?

  • TMR Santa Monica, CA
    Nov. 11, 2010 6:54 p.m.

    To Uncle Sam: Yes, I reside in LA, and have resided in many other places, including SLC. Not sure what you mean by illegal immigration affecting my State . . . "beyond repair." Issues that create problems for California include problems like bloated pensions (none of which, I am quite sure, go not to illegal immigrants, but rather to those legal residents that you prefer), but as far as I can tell, all immigrants, legal and illegal, perform important work here in Calfornia and contribute positively to my Church and community. So, as a Californian, I welcome them. No doubt there are a scattering of grumpy folks in places like Orange County who would take your side, but I for one am glad they are here.

  • Brother Chuck Schroeder A Tropical Paradise USA, FL
    Nov. 11, 2010 6:19 p.m.

    Thank ya'll to Recommend my page 1 post and for the - Recommendations: 20,000 and counting

    as you can see, "This Brother" tells the truth, when it comes down to RINO and left-wing liberal Obama wannabee's Community phony leaders, urge moderate's a approach to illegal immigration, when we know real reform would be to deport them all along with their American made kid's, they can take them back when they leave, one way or the other.

  • Soul Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 6:19 p.m.

    My family waited in line for a long time to come into the United States legally, through the front door. Many more people from around the world are still waiting for their chance to come to the USA, even after decades of waiting.

    The compact is, as claimed, a humane way to start addressing a complex problem with layers of jurisdictions, locally and certainly at the federal government.

    However, I still have neighbors (citizens and illegal immigrants) who are both human beings and law breakers. What shall we do, enforce the laws of the land fairly or ignore the so called federal codes that are criminal in nature? Don't add to the problem!

    I suggest putting enormous pressure on the federal government to SHUT DOWN THE BORDERS, especially with Mexico. We need leaders with guts to make the best decisions in protecting the souther flanks of the nation. An orderly method for legally crossing the borders will help.

    Having said that, new laws should be created to handle the illegal immigrants who are already here as long term guest workers only. The US cannot deport 12 million people with mixed legal status without unnecessary human and
    economic sufferings.

  • cowshed Provo, Utah
    Nov. 11, 2010 5:44 p.m.

    I'm happy to see our business, community and church leaders support a rational approach to immigration policy. I hope leaders at the national level take note of these principles and do what they're elected for -- create an immigration and naturalization law that is constitutional, enforceable, and compassionate.

    As other posters have noted, the United States, because it is such a great place to live, can probably not assimilate all who would like to come here, but we should try to assimilate the maximum feasible number in a fair and reasonable way. Our leaders should also work, as many have in the past, to help other countries build their economies and foster individual freedom so that people can live freely and happily in their home countries.

    Jingoism, racism, and hatred for those who are different from ourselves should have no place in our modern world, especially among those who profess, as many here in Utah do, to follow Jesus Christ.

  • positiverealist Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 5:38 p.m.

    Please understand that if they are caught crossing the border without inspection it is a criminal federal class B misdemeanor and they are deported. If they are not caught or if their visa expires then it is only "Unlawful presense" which is only a CIVIL infraction of a federal code not criminal. I don't condone what they have done but separating their families for a class B misdemeanor is not a suitable punishment for a class B misdemeanor nor a Civil infraction of a federal code. It is not as simple as "what about illegal don't you understand" ? We should not become a police state and if we follow what AZ has done and we make the Federal Civil infraction into a state crime there will be untold unintended consequences for not only the economy but for Utah's future. Understanding the legal issues is a start but most people that have written in don't have the legal understanding and they just keep saying enforce the law... If the policeman does not see you J walk and all of a sudden your on the other side your not going to get a J walking ticket

  • Eric 77 West Valley, Utah
    Nov. 11, 2010 5:30 p.m.

    This is not what the majority of Utah or the majority in America want. When is this politically correct liberalistic point of view going to end? I stand firmly behind Sandstrom's bill and I think the majority of Utah feels the same way. Why do you think the midterm elections went the way they did. Only in America would we let 12 million people break the law and then fight for them to stay.It's absolutely ludicrous. It is not ok to break the law no matter what language you speak or what your skin color is. These people are a drain on our school systems,welfare programs, etc. I work hard but don't make a lot of money therefore I own a modest home in West Valley and it's really bad here. I don't want to live in Mexico but it's being brought to me anyway.I wish some of these liberal politicians, city leaders, religious leaders, lived in my community instead of their upscale neighborhoods maybe then they'd have a different point of view.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 5:29 p.m.

    My my....

    This is beautiful.
    Conservatives actually questioning the LDS 1st Presidency.

    Step 1. from the playbook to apostocy.

    I suggest to turn off your FoxNews and AM radios.

    It's becoming very VERY clear as to who's pipe your listening too.

    I guess the G-O-P doesn't really stand for "God's Own Party" after all.

  • Kae Lake Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 5:03 p.m.

    Thank you drafters and signers of the "Utah Compact" for being the voice of reason and compassion in a very heated, complicated immigration debate.

  • MapleDon Springville, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 4:57 p.m.

    Deseret Media doesn't have the guts to stand for the rule of law. This call for "civil dialogue" started with this issue.

    As a stake leader, I received a few weeks back a letter encouraging us to maintain civil dialogue regarding the issue of illegal immigration.

    I find this call for civil dialogue disingenuous and patronizing. It isn't sincere at all nor is it in the American spirit of open dialogue and debate. You can't expect support and respect when you demand it.

    There is no "warm and fuzzy" feeling over this issue. The majority of Utahns are fully aware that the negatives relating to an open border far outweigh any benefits.

  • milhouse Atlanta, GA
    Nov. 11, 2010 4:32 p.m.

    For those of us Latter-day Saints who were suspicious of Republicans all along, this is truly a great day.

    Now, for all of you who say the Church endorses the GOP, let's see your confusion and apoplexy boil over. For Republicans in Utah, please stop assuming that the Church is politically conservative. It's really not.

  • Blaine Cedar City, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 4:30 p.m.

    The compact is not a "moderate approach to immigration reform." It is a white flag of surrender to a foreign invasion. Our national leaders have surrendered our national sovereignty, identity, and language to this invasion without so much as firing a single shot. That is not a "moderate approach!" It is complete and willful failure to fulfill the federal mandate to defend the States from invasion. For State and local leaders to participate in, or endorse to any extent whatsoever, this surrender is unconscionable. There are situations an dissues where compromise and moderation are appropriate. Dealing with an invasion is not one of them!

  • Y Ask Y Provo, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 4:23 p.m.

    Do not patronize those groups that signed this compact. This is how you register your vote against such groups, who are really motivated to exploit cheap labor upon which their businesses depend. Vote against cheap, illegal labor exploitation. Make these groups earn and honest living.

  • DN Subscriber Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 4:20 p.m.

    Illegal immigrants- bad, go home and take your family with you.

    Legal immigrants- good, welcome and may you enjoy assimilation into the American dream and prosper.

    Ignore the pandering politicians, and the greedy employers who are seeking to benefit themselves.

    Religious leaders can be respected for their charitable instincts, but need to be reminded that obedience to the law is essential. Be as charitable and compassionate as you like to those here illegally but they deserve no incentives, support or aid to enter or remain in this country.

    Respect and enforce all our laws, or we will have none.

  • MapleDon Springville, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 4:09 p.m.

    I really don't care what these so-called (and often self-proclaimed) "leaders" do in regards to illegal immigration. They're putting short-term interests ahead of long-term ramifications. For these politically correct personalities, it's a quest for converts and donations (which, in turn, increases their power and influence).


    Deseret Media has been the most vocal advocate for illegal immigration in this state. You think it might have to do with their Spanish newspaper? Think again.

    If you were to slice and dice this issue--getting to the real reason why some entities (churches, businesses, news organizations, one political party) are in favor of illegal immigration and amnesty, you'll find it has at its core one reason--money. And money is power.

    So the rest of us have to pay the social/tax burden, deal with the additional crime (including beheadings and other cartel activities), and the loss of our culture, national sovereignty, and law and order--all so these entities can benefit.

    That isn't sad. It makes me mad.

  • libertarianmind Tooele, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 4:00 p.m.

    Since the introduction of Rep. Stephen Sandstrom's proposed immigration bill., one similar to the controversial bill passed in Arizona several months ago the powers that be namely, Bishop John Wester, leader of the Catholic Diocese of Salt Lake City and head of the Catholic Bishops of the United States Immigration Committee, , The Utah chamber of commerce, Mark Willes Deseret Media Corporation president and CEO ,Former Gov. Olene Walker, Attorney general Mark Shurleff and factions of the Lds church have arrayed themselves in opposition to the bill. These are the same elements that have given us the use of the Matricla card (unverifiable Mexican consul I.D. card) for drivers licenses, in state tuition for illegal alien children, and if they had their way today amnesty for 250,000 or so illegal Mexican nationals on the Wasatch front, all this during a time of high economic uncertainty for thousand of Utans, Representative Sandsrom deserves all the help he can get when the session convenes the fist of the year don't you think? Illegal immigration is a serious problem and polls done in the past reflect an attitude of enforcement not amnesty.

  • Norm Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 3:25 p.m.

    I am totaly amazed how the creators of the compact can encourage breaking the law. I think the people siging the compact and encourage compassion should create a fund that would help pay for the education, medical needs and food for the illegal immigrants so our tax money goes to the American citizens that are in dire need. We were told that in a few years Utah will be paying 40% of our total budget into medicaid. This said in a meeting of Utah Senate members and congressional representativers from other states. Are we so blind by the desire of the various religions and business greed not to see what is happening to our state and country. Many states are moving to correct this which means we will see more illegal alliens moving to Utah. I don't want my tax money going to support them, I want it used for my grandchildren and other American families. Why should we take care of illegals when we have elderly that are in dire need. Let the church direct money to the help they need. Tired of hearing the work compassion when it only involves illegal immigrants. Will soon be a California.

  • ppoe Cedar City, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 3:14 p.m.

    So, do we go "moderate" on all the CRIME that has come with all this illegal immigratation too? And this has NOTHING to do with..illegals doing jobs others won't do either. It has EVERYTHING to do with CHEAP labor.

  • Poqui Murray, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 3:11 p.m.

    It is interesting to see so many LDS people against the Utah Compact when the LDS Church has taken the position to support it.

    Selective obedience to the prophet? Or is he not "inspired" in issuing this statement of support of the Compact.

    The LDS Church has made great strides towards a moderate stance in many issues and has joined the other churches in the valley calling for reform in a moderate fashion, to avoid Draconian measures. Why all the criticism?

  • Midway Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 3:09 p.m.


    I have tracked the issues around the H-1B visa for the last 10 years. It is used in exploitive manner by most of the employers. Nobel Prize economist Milton Friedman called the visa a government "subsidy" to employers. I am sure the Chamber of Commerce and other pro-business groups would lobby hard against any subsidy that they don't like. American "white-collar" workers should also - and they have - hence the reason the H-1B visa is limited now: so many laid off tech workers contacted their representatives against the H-1B visa that Congress has received a lot of opposition against it. Still, 80,000 visas a year are available - some years not even that many jobs are created in its market. Plus, many of the visas are used in short-term situations in preparation to move work offshore - counter to the so-called "need" due to unavailability of US workers.

    A "laissez-faire" approach to immigration cannot possibly work. Americans know what has already happened to their neighborhoods and culture. Capping immigration is sensible - especially if the visas are used in subsidy-like manner and work against US workers.

  • Doug S Lindon, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 3:02 p.m.

    I wonder how many of the people demanding conservative Mormons now fall in line behind "the brethren", were self-righteously touting their own independence of mind when they opposed Prop 8 in California?

    As for the "we need the labor" - this is a nation of three hundred million people. We have the labor. What employers want, and what immigrants are willing to provide, is CHEAP labor.

    I don't care what your job is--someone, somewhere on this earth is willing to do it for less money than you are. In the long run, yeah--more numbers of specialized workers in a country should create more prosperity. But, as Lord Keynes said--in the long run, we're all dead. And in the short run, you're either jobless or taking a hefty pay cut just to stay employed.

  • XelaDave Salem, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 2:42 p.m.

    Oh this is soooo confusing- I listen to the radio and I am supposed to hate immigrants and understand all the evil they do and how the constitution is hanging by a thread because of it and then the LDS Church comes out and supports a position of moderation and reasoned thought- what will I do?- I am sure I will do as most and find some way to justify my animosity but still go to Church and proclaim my Chritian values- good luck

  • DeepintheHeart Lewisville, TX
    Nov. 11, 2010 2:37 p.m.

    Well, if many or most on this board are members of the LDS Church, we have some rebellion brewing, don't we? What part of being compassionate don't y'all like? What part of pro-family causes you to quiver in your constitutional boots? Being in this country without permission is not a felony. If you expected the LDS Church to call for mass deportations, ask what would happen to the Spanish speaking branches of the LDS Church in almost all states? Ever wonder why the church still gives temple recommends to those who are here illegally?

  • Phill Provo, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 2:35 p.m.

    What a beautiful demonstration of "moderation" in all things, especially on such a divisive issue that has driven many to the extreme of ideas. This sends out the importance of implementing ideals that are both lawful and caring for the individuals involved. I'm also happy to see the LDS church join other religious leaders and organization on this cause. Wonderful news.

  • AnnieZ Durham, NC
    Nov. 11, 2010 2:25 p.m.

    We need more legal immigration. That is the only way to solve this problem. We rely on immigrant skilled labor too. US schools (Ranked #36 amongst industrialized nations for math skills) are not producing the kind of students who are skilled enough for the jobs of the future. Every year, the cap on H1-B visas (for skilled immigrants) is reached in a matter of days. US Corporations know that this puts us at a competitive disadvantage relative to the rest of the world in the long run. We need more immigration for unskilled workers too. If you don't want US companies to exploit workers, and I sure don't, the you should be asking for comprehensive immigration reform that makes it easier for people to come to this country legally to work. Enforcement only, as many of you are calling for, does not reflect the economic reality of our age.

  • CB Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 2:13 p.m.

    I wonder how those 'compassionates' would feel about 'making whole' those who have lost to the criminal behaviors of the illegals? If we were exposed to the real cost of this continued coddling, (not taking into account the costs of education, medical and welfare) might there not be a greater interest in stopping this 'milking of our land'. I have a bill I would like to send to them when that compassion is extended to American citizens.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 2:11 p.m.

    Dearest Heartless Ultra-Conservatives,

    How many times have I repeated that there must be "Moderation in ALL things"???

    Please turn off your TVs and radios,
    take your "kick them all out" Beck-Limbaugh-Hannity extremist mindest - stiffle it - and Follow the Brethern.

    Thank You.

    LDS Liberal

  • Uncle Sam West Jordan, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 2:11 p.m.

    Hey TMR, I noticed you are from California. Don't even get me started on how ILLEGAL immigration has affected your state. Beyond repair....

    I don't get the whole "civil" argument. Why am I racist according to Latinos, and part of the "dark side" being called a radical "right wing" when all I want is for the current laws in place to be enforced?

    When did it become cool in America to challenge every single thing that is wrong, to justify it being right? Exercising your first amendment privilege, good for you. I want our laws enforced, and they cannot get illegals out of my country soon enough! You can call me what you want, I am an American citizen that pays my taxes, supports my country, and wants to have a world that my kids can grow up in and live in that supports the U.S. Constitution.

  • LatterDayLiberal Hurricane, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 2:06 p.m.

    The Compact expresses noble sentiments that most reasonable people can agree with. Few of us have any problems with immigrants who came here looking for work and a better life for their families -- legally or otherwise.

    However, we should have ZERO TOLLERANCE for ANY criminal activity on their part. Criminals who are not citizens should be returned to their home country (whether or not they have family here); or their consulate should be billed for their care and feeding as long as they are in our prison system; or the FedGov should pay the expenses.

    Of course, expecting the FedGov to do anything positive or responsible is a fantasy.

  • Emophiliac Vernal, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 2:05 p.m.

    So, the question is, will the will of the supporters of the Compact be able to overcome the will of the majority of Utahns? Should businesses be able to import labor to the detriment of US citizens? Does the welfare of the business supersede that of US citizens? As long as our taxes are going to support unemployed US citizens, we should be supporting policies that put them to work, rather than policies that make the biggest profit for a business. I suppose we should be compassionate, but we should be compassionate and fair to everyone, but mainly to US citizens.

  • Did I Say That? Rawlins, WY
    Nov. 11, 2010 2:01 p.m.

    Yes, I believe we need to be compassionate.

    Please give the illegals a helping hand into the bus back to Mexico.

  • Spoc Ogden, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 2:00 p.m.

    Federal law determines who should stay or go. But there is nothing wrong with state and local law enforcement officers supporting federal courts in apprehension. They do it all the time when they find interstate drug traffic traveling Utah freeways.

    Just for the record, there is no such thing as a civil infraction of the illegal entry statute. The first infraction is a criminal misdemeanor punishable by 6 months in jail or a year in prison for a subsequent infraction. I can also bring suit for civil damages in addition to the criminal penalties and after the prison time he can be deported. If it is a second offense he can also be permanently barred from entry into the country. Does that sound like a minor issue?

    While it is true that citizen children cannot be deported, parents are not permitted to abandon their children either. At least two options are available: take them with you and we will foot the bill, or if you can arrange it before you are deported they must be permanently adopted by citizens, not just given up for adoption.

  • U of U Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 1:50 p.m.

    I think so many people are skeptical of this Utah Compact because of several of its supporters:

    Salt Lake Chamber of Commerce, the Sutherland Institute, Ivory Homes.

    What do they want?

    Cheap labor.

    Americans can see the self-serving cheap labor lobby easily. These organizations practically have neon lights on their name.

  • TMR Santa Monica, CA
    Nov. 11, 2010 1:47 p.m.

    I must admit that the "dark side" of me enjoys seeing these articles in the DN on immigration because without fail it exposes the meanness and anger of the radical right-wing - you people just cannot help yourselves - and the comments provide both a reminder that we still have a long way to go in this country and some form of twisted comic relief. In a more serious vein, kudos to the LDS Church and others for taking a balanced, and compassionate position on immigration.

  • lawenforcementfromAZ Glendale, AZ
    Nov. 11, 2010 1:33 p.m.

    What a sad state of affairs! Let's make this simple and honest:

    1. Those immigrating here pursuant to current US laws are welcome to particpate in the American dream of self-sufficiency and abiding in the laws fo the land.
    2. Those here illegally, continually voilate our laws, especialy criminal statutes by using stolen or forged identities.
    3. Those here illegally take jobs from lawful US citizens.
    4. Those here illegally are a burden to honest tax paying citizens.

    Why has this been allowed to happen? The US Government has failed to enfore the law. The law isn't borken, it's just not enforced.

    We can never have a land that relies on the rule of law unless the laws are respected and enforced.

    "We acknowledge that every nation has the right to enforce its laws and secure its borders. All persons subject to a nation's laws are accountable for their acts in relation to them.

  • sally Kearns, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 1:26 p.m.

    speak english - usa, the LDS churches comments are on the KSL article. To read it, you have to click on the connector web site toward the end of the article. It would be helpful if it was included on this website.

  • elk Monticello, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 1:21 p.m.

    This is not about human rights it is about cheap labor and church membership by the framers of the compact
    The Federal Government can not or will not address this issue so the State Government must.
    First - the state must enact and enforce - no non citizen is entitled to free social services, such as welfare, education, medical care, etc. in the Utah period.
    Second - If you are an illegal and you have a baby in the U.S. they are not a citizen until you are.
    Third - make it illegal to have other than English on all government forms, Home Depot signs, etc. no more two language system everywhere. If you do not speak English, learn it or stuggle. Mexico dose not provide me a double language when I am down there.
    Fourth - if you fly your country's flag, disrespect the US Flag or any other aspect of being a US citizen you are deported along with your family.
    If you are coming here to better yourself and your family - do it, but not at the expense of tax paying citizens.

  • bulldog Sandy, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 1:11 p.m.

    When theyre willing to come here legally (not by amnesty), live by the laws of the land, speak English, assimilate themselves into OUR culture, willing to become an American citizen and pledge allegiance to no other foreign country or government. Im for it!
    Otherwise, cut all the crap and send them back so they CAN be with their families!

  • Speak English - USA West Jordan, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 1:07 p.m.

    Let's rip this "fluff" up and get down to business. I don't care how compassionate we need to "appear" as we do it, but it is time to get illegals out of our state. I am so sick and tired of these minority groups getting together to get their names in the paper.

    The huge majority of Utahns want Senator Sandtrom's bill passed yesterday. Let's put it to a state vote if you are really wanting to do what the people want. I would predict 75%-80% would vote to pass the immigration (get out of Utah) bill.

    I am a Mormon, and I am going to take a closer look at my church's stance on this. Because if they are taking the stance that illegals should have amnesty in any way, shape, or form.... I am going to contact my church leaders. It is time to uphold the laws that are already in place.

  • AnnieZ Durham, NC
    Nov. 11, 2010 1:01 p.m.

    Kudos to all involved in the Utah Compact. It is a well-written, reasonable statement that takes into account the Constitution as well as compassion.

    For those of you that continue to have a witch-hunt mentality when it comes to immigrants, I strongly encourage you to calm down and look at the motivations behind your anti-immigration diatribes. Or at the very least, take some time to actually learn about actual US immigration laws before coming onto this board and ranting.

  • ouisc Farmington, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 12:40 p.m.

    Wow. So all these people got together to write and sign the Utah Compact, which does absolutely nothing. How do these people get anything accomplished in their day jobs? Still, they offer no alternatives. They just don't want to bite the hands that feed them.

  • Brer Rabbit Spanish Fork, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 12:40 p.m.

    Rep. Sandstrom and others in the legislature that oppose illegal immigration, beware the long knives are now out. We see cheap labor groups such as the SL Chamber of Commerce, the Sutherland Institute, Ivory Homes and more wanting to continue to flood the labor market with cheap taxpayer subsidized foreign labor. We also see the Churches that want grow their congregations.

    Now we are worried about families being broken up? What about the poor families of citizens that are broken up when a family member is sent to jail or prison for such things as fraud, theft, and other non-violent crimes?

    Look at the list of those supporting illegal immigration, and you will see that most of them are more of an interest in cheap labor, and politics than compassion.

    Since the native birthrate leveled off at 2.1 per female in the late 70s many see legal and illegal immigration as a method of growing the population. We all seem to want more church members, more homes, larger state and city population and so on. Where does this end? Perhaps half a billion U.S. population by mid century? What will that look like?

  • New Yorker Pleasant Grove, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 12:31 p.m.

    Hey Dan Bishop,
    No one forced my parents when they arrived from Poland and the Austrian empire to "learn English, teach their children not to write on the walls, attain citizenship, or give up their old citizenship." In the land of opportunity, it just happens. If they had wanted compulsion, they would have stayed in the old country. There the Government decided whether you dug ditches, learned a trade, or got to go to a university. God Bless America!

  • Ajax Mapleton, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 12:26 p.m.

    Finally some sensible and informed talk on immigration by our community leaders. Thank heavens for the wisdom of Utah's no longer silent majority.

    Hopefully the legislature will man-up and respect the will of the people. Willful ignorance is the bane of society.

  • Hemlock Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 12:16 p.m.

    OK legislature and community leaders, the ball is in your court. You've stood up, now deliver. Do something, anything. The fact that you are compassionate, concerned and engaged has been established and it's commendable.

    I call, let's see your cards.

  • Name Already Used Fort Duchesne, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 12:10 p.m.

    The document has the same weight and importance as the State declaring "Be nice to your Fine Feathered Friends Week." Any smart person knows you can't spit into the wind nor draw on the Lone Ranger and you can't solve a problem with a be nice policy. Unless you are willing to enforce the law and put "heart" into it--there will continue to be Federal Law Violators painting graffiti, posting the flag upside down, taking jobs with phony IDs, not paying income tax, and getting free education and health care.

  • Jazz Bass Man Wellsville, Utah
    Nov. 11, 2010 12:06 p.m.

    The legal citizens of this state overwhelmingly support an Arizona type law and the enforcement of the laws. Our "elected representatives" would do well to remember that.

  • Brother Chuck Schroeder A Tropical Paradise USA, FL
    Nov. 11, 2010 12:02 p.m.

    It's LDS Church leaders that strongly urge "moderate" (that's a liberal term by the way), approach to illegal immigration reform, not all Church Member's and American Citizen's. I refuse too participate with that thinking. Utah must obey all the written law's of the land and "NEVER" ever adopt a phony illegal humane approach to this reality, reflecting on their culture, history and spirit of inclusion. Right now Utah don't respect the rule of law and support law enforcement's professional judgment and discretion. They try to turn "federal code's" into minor State civil violations stuffed into Bill's in Congress along with earmarks and pork. while they oppose policies that unnecessarily separate families and deport the parent's, when they have the right to take their "welfare kid's" along with them. Utah don't really acknowledge the non-economic role illegal immigrants play while real American workers and taxpayers pay for while they are here. That's my view, like it or not. And I'm a Mormon also. Plus a true conservative that does not hide the truth's.

    Happy Veteran's Day.

  • Jazz Bass Man Wellsville, Utah
    Nov. 11, 2010 11:59 a.m.

    ALL illegal aliens that are here are breaking our laws - PERIOD. Why is that so hard to understand?

    These radical lefist groups (sutherland institute, LA RAZA, etc) and the liberal politicians like Becker, Shurtleff and Burbank all want to absolve themselves from having to deal with this invasion, but the people have spoken very loud and clear that we have had enough of this blatant refusal by teh federal and local governments to enforce the law.

    We the people are rising up against this deliberate attempt by our "representatives" who want to turn our country into mexico, and we WILL vote you out. Count on it.

  • sally Kearns, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 11:58 a.m.

    Where is the compassion for the American citizen who have had their identity stolen, their employment stolen by illegals from the community leaders and business owners, and taxes used by cash payed illegals to use the infrastructure of our community. Compassion goes both ways. The illegals made the choice to come to America, now they whine that we have not given them enough. Many of them have left family (elderly and disabled)back in their own home country to survive with little help. I'm tired of reading about one sided compassion. As a parent, I learned through experience that sometimes compassion involves tough love with consequences.

  • David B. Cedar City, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 11:56 a.m.

    The reason why the states are doing something is because the ferderal gov't won't do their jobs period!If you are illegal you don't belong here and you gotta go,no more freebies from us hard working Americans.We are tired of supporting your criminal ways.If you want to come here you do it the right way or not at all!Also re-write the 14th ammendment to exclude anchor babies! If you are illegal your child shouldn't be granted citizenship.

  • bryHunt Mesa, AZ
    Nov. 11, 2010 11:53 a.m.

    If you lived in Mexico and your family was starving and you knew you could get a job at the Orange Julius in a Mall in Utah that paid you as much in a day that you could earn in a week back home you would come too.
    Man! Come to think of it. I could really use an Orange Julius. Anyone know if those are around anymore?
    I am guessing as word get's around about this charter a bunch of illegals from AZ are going to flock up here.
    If they do, I hope they open a few more restaurants in Bountiful. I can't get a decent taco in that town! Who's with me?

  • mammalou Somewhere in the USA, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 11:50 a.m.

    Well, so much for my United Way Donations. I have cancelled next years deductions and WILL NOT participate in their sub for santa this Christmas.

  • utahenergyideas Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 11:48 a.m.

    We need to remove and not create any rewards and incentives for immigrants to come here and be here illegally.

    Immigrants that are here illegally should not have the ability to become United States Citizens prior to those outside the U.S. applying to come legally.

    We do need to treat all, even those breaking our laws, as human beings. There should be incentives for those that are already here illegally to register with the U.S. Government for a short term work visa if done in conjunction with a sponsoring legal business. Those short term work visas should not be a step toward citizenship.

    Citizenship, if desired and qualified for, must be applied for with the application from their country of origin, (unless qualifying for asylum) and behind those that have been waiting legally there. 

  • patriot vet Cedar City, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 11:46 a.m.

    I am so happy that LDS Church leaders have joined other church and community leaders in signing this compact. It reflects our society's conscience, customs and standards. And it reflects the Gospel.

    We veterans served a country that welcomes the downtrodden and those who come here to work and serve their new country as well.

    Amen to the compact's statement: Utah should focus its resources on "criminal activities, not civil violations of federal code."

  • echo Austin, TX
    Nov. 11, 2010 11:46 a.m.

    HERE, here. Finally a rational attitude about immigration reform. Maybe the rest of the nation will listen, too. There has to be a better way- something between throwing open the gates and throwing them all out- thank heaven someone is looking for it.

    Too bad they didn't listen to the health care debate in Utah before they pushed that through.

  • NeilT Clearfield, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 11:41 a.m.

    WOW, sounds like common sense. Can't have that. Imagine treating them like human beings. The right wing must be going nuts. After all aren't they all rapists, murderers, drug dealers, and responsible for a crime wave. We must have a law enforcement only approach. No room for compassion in this LDS dominated state.

  • Utes Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 11:40 a.m.

    Even the most ardent supporters of eliminating illegal immigration, such as FAIR and NumbersUSA, do NOT support mass deportation. They support gradual reduction of illegal immigrants by laws that encourage those in the USA illegally to return home. Also, they also support strengthening the border.

    We should hope and pray for better political and economic conditions in 3rd world nations, especially Mexico.

    We should also realize the facts with immigration, and that immigration should never be used as a worldwide poverty reduction plan, as there are billions in poverty which is well beyond the capability of the USA to fix this problem by mass importation of people.

  • kevthesinger Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 11:29 a.m.

    If you read the statement, it's not really about that anyway. It's about being compassionate and rational when making decisions about people who are living and working in our community.

  • tom_e Kaysville, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 11:25 a.m.

    3arwax - You are right there are two documents
    1. The Constitution
    2. The compact

    One upholds the rule of law the other does not.

  • nottyou Riverton, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 11:24 a.m.

    They should take the legal approach. Please enforce the current laws that are in place AND secure the borders...fat chance.

  • h3tec Ogden, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 11:21 a.m.

    What happened to common sense in all of this? I can see both sides of this argument, but if we don't control our borders this situation will harm more people on both sides of this issue. I believe that is why we can't solve it now. there is no statesman ship nor common sense in politics or law.

  • SLC gal Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 11:21 a.m.

    If the federal government would be doing anything, would there BE pressure at the state level to do something? Seriously, becuase of this, Mayor Becker does NOT have my support next election. I refuse to vote for a mayor that can't use their brian.

  • Dan Bishop Lehi, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 11:20 a.m.

    I have read the compact and the thing that concerns me, is there is nothing in it requiring immigrants to obey the law, learn English, teach their children not to write on the walls, attain citizenship, or give up their old citizenship. Coming here implies citizenship and with it comes responsibility. Americans aren't against immigration but they are against bad behavior.

  • 3arwax Logan, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 11:14 a.m.

    Read the Constitution. Where does it say the federal government should handle immigration. It only handle naturalization, a separate issue.