Dick Harmon: As BYU ponders, critics show their true feelings

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  • Independent
    Sept. 1, 2010 12:31 p.m.

    BYU gets negative publicity by being in the MWC. If they win, the accomplishment doesn't mean anything because they're in a weak conference. If they lose, they lost in a weak conference. Then, BYU gets negative publicity for trying to improve their situation. "Who do they think they are?" I'm convinced that the only thing BYU could do to get positive publicity is to stop being Mormon. I don't see how making it so your fans can see you on television equals arrogance in any way. How can you call them arrogant when they would happily join the WAC or the WCC? If everybody in the MWC hates BYU anyway, why do they care that they are leaving? BYU is just being realistic. They know the MWC will never get into the BCS. They know they won't get an invitation to the PAC or the Big 12, so instead of complaining about it, they're doing all they can to improve their situation. Now all the crabs in the bucket want to pull them down. Pathetic.

  • Wally West
    Aug. 30, 2010 1:21 p.m.

    BYU isn't worried about a negative publicity as DH implied in the 1st 8 sentences and why?

    It'll feed the collective persecution complex that has benn going on for nearly 2 centuries.

    BYU and hardcore orthodox true believers here in Zion need it like shadows need light.

  • Buster
    Aug. 29, 2010 7:18 p.m.

    hedgehog | 12:45 p.m.

    Get into a community college, and study "Comparative Religions". So many of those questions that frustrate you will be answered.

    And, yes, there are many religions that percieve they are the only one with the "truth".

    How does this affect independence?


    Just curious. since you mentioned it.

    Why would you let religion dictate what football team you choose?

    That's like choosing the Bruins over the Ducks. Nothing to do with the teams.

  • worf
    Aug. 29, 2010 6:49 p.m.

    Re WWookie:

    I cannot argue against truth. I don't understand why some cougars fans can't post without slamming the Utes. My excuse is reacting to the bitterment of some Ute fans. No reason why both the Cougars and Utes can'nt be successful.

  • Captain L
    Aug. 29, 2010 6:29 p.m.

    bigdaddy: Good point!!!

  • bigdaddy
    Aug. 29, 2010 5:58 p.m.


    "You realise Islamic extremists carry the same belief" (nice spelling btw) Islamic extremists also carry a lot of explosives with their beliefs and aren't afraid to share it in a crowded marketplace with a bunch of innocent bystanders.

    Once again, as usual, your perspective is out of touch with reality. I don't see how a group who shares hatred and violence with explosive devices strapped to theirselves compares with one who shares a message of love and hope in a manner which gives the viewer total freedom of choice whether they want to hear it or not.

  • Captain L
    Aug. 29, 2010 4:17 p.m.

    Hedgehog: Has the Church or BYU done something to you to cause you to hate them (us)? If so left me know and maybe I can understand your bitterness and hatred.
    One of the reasons the Church wants greater exposure is to eliminate misconceptions.
    I challenge anyone who hates the LDS church or BYU to examine what they really teach and stand for and they will see it is good. The people of the church aren't perfect, many may be far from it but what the church teaches and stands for is truth and righteousness. Getting the people of the church to live and act that way is another story, but most of them are trying, and meeting with varying degrees of successes and failures.

  • haunyocker
    Aug. 29, 2010 12:58 p.m.

    Isn't it interesting that the very holier than thou members of the league who treated BYU with disgust not that many years ago are moaning and groaning that BYU might leave. One would think that they would be thrilled to see BYU go, but no, they still are taking their shots.

    If the other members of the league were in this situation they'd be considering every option just like BYU to advance their program. I didn't hear any belly aching when Utah jumped ship. But heaven forbid that BYU consider that option. The hypocrisy just gets thicker and thicker.

    Additionally, to use a word as strong as hate to describe a decision about what a football team seems pathetic. It's just a game. Hating Osama bin Laden might be warranted, but a football team...or even a church university for making a decision about their participation in the league is childishly irrational.

  • hedgehog
    Aug. 29, 2010 12:45 p.m.

    "The fact is God establishes Truth and God is not a God of confusion: All of these different faiths can't all be true. That is the reason there is such a need for living Prohpets and Apostles and modern day revelation."

    Captain L,

    Thanks for highlighting a major reason for the low national preception of your Church.

    You realise Islamic extremists carry the same belief.

    THe "exposure" thing can be a sticky wicket.

  • Captain L
    Aug. 29, 2010 10:24 a.m.

    Re Nevada Ute: One more things I disagree with in regards to your comments is:
    To assume your truth is better than everyone else's is what "comes across in a way that others take offense to".
    Why do so many people take offense to a message of Love and Hope? All they need to do is look and see how wonderful it is.
    The fact is God establishes Truth and God is not a God of confusion: All of these different faiths can't all be true. That is the reason there is such a need for living Prohpets and Apostles and modern day revelation.
    All the LDS church wants people to do is look and see what the message is and decide for themselves if the message is the truth and comes from God.
    It really is a wonderful message.

  • duckhouse
    Aug. 29, 2010 9:33 a.m.

    I don't understand why my comments are left out quite often. I never say anything of bad language, personal comments, etc. I am very supporting of BYU going independent. Many ute fans say that the the 60,000 million number is just that------just a make-believe number. They always say maybe a million fans would be on BYU-TV-----well if you take the million x $500 that I would be willing to pay yearly to have BYU Sports in my home that is a few bucks. l million x 500 = Mega bucks. I know their is over 2-3 million fans in Idaho alone. Go independent cougars- We are all behind you.

  • Captain L
    Aug. 29, 2010 9:06 a.m.

    Re NevadaUte : Your right, alot of people think they have the truth. All we want is for people to look and see what the message the LDS church has. A message of the Gospel Christ established during his ministry, RESTORED, the key here is RESTORED to the earth with living Prophets and Apostles and modern day revelation thru Prophets to guide and direct his children.
    If people will look they can see for themselves.

    The only problem I have with what you said is, people have their own truth, no matter what it is. That I disagree with you on, God establishes Truth, not man, and it is our responsibility to find the truth as God has revealed.
    If people will just look they can see what the message is and decide for themselves.

  • wwookie
    Aug. 29, 2010 5:32 a.m.

    Here are some truthful statements:

    1. BYU fans cant help but bring up Utah in their posts about a BYU aricle.
    2. BYU fans determine their existence only as it relates to Utah. Theres no sense of esteem without a comparison to the Utes.
    3. BYU football will never succeed as an independent.
    4. Dick is delusional and thinks the universe revolves around Provo, Utah.

  • worf
    Aug. 29, 2010 1:56 a.m.

    Here are some truthful statements:

    1. I don't care for the utes, so I don't read & post on their articles.
    2. The utes will not win the MWC this year.
    3. The utes and cougars will never win a pac-10 championship.
    4. Competing with BYU has made the utes stronger in football.
    5. Taking BYU football players for coaches, copying BYU's passing game, and joining the cougars with taking hawaiian football players--has strengthened the ute football progarm.
    6. BYU is the University of Utah.
    7. Had Utah stayed in the WAC ten years ago rather than joining the MWC,--would not have had the BCS victories. Needed BYU for their growth developement. Look at the facts!
    8. Some ute fans are bitter frustrated brats who'll slap the hand that fed them.
    9. This is a tuffy! In football over the past twenty years-- BYU has more victories over Southern Cal than the utes.
    10. Air Force has prettier cheerleaders than the utes.

  • duckhouse
    Aug. 28, 2010 11:25 p.m.

    My feelings is that BYU could do good as an independent. If there was say 1 Million fans in BYU-TV lands, as many Ute fans call it. (out of 60 million homes) I would be one of the those million that would pay $500 year to have BYU games in my home. Figure that one out Ute fans. 1 million x $500 = Mega bucks. I really think there would be several million fans----there are over 2 million in Idaho alone. G0 Cougs------we are all behind you.

  • fresnogirl
    Aug. 28, 2010 10:37 p.m.

    @ Hedge and all the BYU obsessed Utes:

    I have to admit, I still don't get why you waste so much time and effort here on a team you don't like. You end up sounding like the jilted lover who can't get over the one who got away. Meanwhile, she never thinks about you.... So pathetic.

  • BluCoug
    Aug. 28, 2010 10:27 p.m.

    @ hedgehog

    Alcohol and utes fans don't mix either, in fact a bad combination, especially when a keyboard is thrown into the mix. Pretty much explains why there are irrational postings on a BYU article.

  • BluCoug
    Aug. 28, 2010 10:16 p.m.

    @ Mid-Major Cougars

    Know your facts dude, BYU had a deal with CSTV, comcast and the mtn and hair broke that.

  • SoCalUtahFan
    Aug. 28, 2010 10:15 p.m.

    From ESPN...
    ...Over the past 10 years, three non-automatic qualifying schools have had more success than any of the others, more success than almost every school from a big-time conference, too.

    Boise State, TCU and Utah have established themselves as national players...

    No mention of BYU here...it must be because BYU is hated so much nationally for its success on the field.

  • BluCoug
    Aug. 28, 2010 10:14 p.m.

    well rogerdodger,

    Utah finally decided to give back to their conference after the 50 years. But, they still have a long way to go to equal the amount of money that BYU brought during that time period.

  • NevadaUTE
    Aug. 28, 2010 10:07 p.m.

    Captain L:
    The Jehovah's Witnesses also believe they have "the truth". One billion Catholics believe the same. Another billion Muslims certainly believe "they have been commanded that their message be taken to all the earth". There are MANY religions that believe they have THE truth. The fact is that people have their own truth, no matter what that is. And yes, there are many that believe just as strongly as you that they have the "only" truth. To assume your truth is better than everyone else's is what "comes across in a way that others take offense to".

  • Cougar Blue
    Aug. 28, 2010 8:55 p.m.

    As I real all of these anti-BYU posts, I start to wonder if they are all Republicans. I say it because they all say the same old things, regardless of the states they hail from, and have so few facts to back them up. Is there indeed a connection?

  • Captain L
    Aug. 28, 2010 8:48 p.m.

    Hedgehog: Your last comment you made that you don't know any other religion in America that is so obsessed with exposure shows that you have no idea about what the LDS church is all about. That is probably one of the big reasons you can't understand LDS people/ BYU fans. BYU fans/LDS people aren't trying to be arrogant or self righteous or superior, they just have a message they know to be true and that sometimes comes across in a way that others take offense to. Many LDS people struggle with being able to express themselves humbly, when they know what they have is the truth. Non members take offense when LDS people say they have the truth. Unless religion and keeping Gods commandments is extremely important to people they may not be able to understand why exposure is so important to the LDS church. The message is that the gospel has been restored to the earth and God has commanded that that message be taken to all the earth and the exposure the church and BYU wants is to be able to expose people to that message, football/sports is just a tool.

  • Duh
    Aug. 28, 2010 8:27 p.m.

    @rogerdoger who states: "How are you enjoying that money from Utah's 2 BCS games and from TCU's BCS game" Well, I don't know rogerdoger, how is Utah enjoying all the money that BYU brought to the conferences they have both been associated for the past 30 years? You can only see the past 6 years, but you have not looked at the past 30. Wanna bet that in the history of BYU/Utah football, BYU has brought in a lot more than those two BCS games? Yeah, that's right. You may not accept it but when we want to spought off about earnings, lets look at where all the money came from that helped your team get where they are. Just saying.........like it or not it is what it is. Go BYU, make as many haters as you can, they will all come see you play, win or lose, I bet there isn't a single team or conference who earns money from it that't going to cry about it.

  • hedgehog
    Aug. 28, 2010 8:00 p.m.

    "My team is enough to keep me satisfied."


    Satisfied, like a big help'n of dogma? Do you ever read these post and think (on your own) maybe there's objectivity in these words?

    We want to like you - we really do.

  • fresnogirl
    Aug. 28, 2010 7:40 p.m.

    I'm always amazed at how many Ute fans obsessively read and comment (and comment on the comments) on BYU articles. I don't get it. I personally don't care what other teams are doing. My team is enough to keep me satisfied.

  • hedgehog
    Aug. 28, 2010 7:31 p.m.

    The best thing the tds can do to help their BCS conference quest and increase "exposure"?

    Get to and WIN a BCS bowl game.

    Simple as that.

    "Pounding thy chest" about MWC victories means almost nothing to a National fan base - honestly, do you think a Texas fan knows (or cares) how dominate the tds is in the MWC? How many times tds went to the MACO bowl?

    Face it. the possibly of tds going indy is because they didn't get it done on the field.

    Own it.

  • Hellooo
    Aug. 28, 2010 6:47 p.m.

    Nice article Dick! However, the Y has no options for its other sports. It will have to stay in the MWC, which is a conference that through its actions in the last two weeks will continue to be a non-AQ BCS league. The MWC with the addition of BSU will be very competitive. Most likely the winner will have at least one loss and never be eligible for a BCS bowl game. One thing is for sure the Y has ensured it will always have fierce rivals in the MWC. TCU is by far the best team in the MWC, BSU will be next and the Y will be playing hard to keep up. Can't blame them for trying to leave, more $ and a better chance to win, but it is not going to happen now.

  • idablu
    Aug. 28, 2010 6:45 p.m.

    @redfeather 4:42pm

    "Reportedly, Craig Thompson agreed to pay the $5 million exit fee for FSU and UNR if they agreed to join the MWC."

    That is like saying Obama is going to pay for your healthcare. No, redfeather, those two $5 million dollar fees will be footed by the other MWC schools.

  • idablu
    Aug. 28, 2010 6:24 p.m.

    @Go Big Blue!!!

    ". . . the y continues to scheme up plans to be relevant as they see the Utes tail lights dissapear off in the horizon."

    Ohhhh! If only that were true. . . But as clearly evident by the many posts from the Ute trolls, they are so obsessed about BYU, they just won't leave.


    good comments.

  • scott
    Aug. 28, 2010 6:20 p.m.

    BYU fans seem to be split on the prospect of BYU going independent

    Utah fans, however, who are completely unaffected by whether BYU goes independent are almost universally opposed.

    If this is such a bad idea for BYU, why are they so opposed?

    food for thought

  • Cougars --Best Little Brothers
    Aug. 28, 2010 6:19 p.m.

    @Veritas Aequitas
    ..."Unless you have no past....
    Then you look like a fool."
    -John Uhavnothing....
    Hey, the present is empty also. What are you going to do???...

    1) "You learn from your past. You don't live in your past" by Cougars—Best Little Brothers

    2) “Don’t let the past steal your present.” — Cherralea Morgen

    If the present is empty for you, then I pity you.
    My present is always full because I live in it.

  • hedgehog
    Aug. 28, 2010 6:15 p.m.

    I agree with an earlier post. Religion and football - to the extent tds is pushing it, should not mix.

    To much of an agenda besides simply athletics. I know of no other religion in North America that is so obsessed with "exposure".

    Just like a BCS conference, shouldn't you just let it come to you?

  • Ute Bird Mascot
    Aug. 28, 2010 6:15 p.m.

    GoUtah | 5:29 p.m. Aug. 28, 2010
    Wow! That’s a dose of reality. BYU has "not gone to a single BCS bowl or really done anything except be a sometimes foil to the real juice of the conference, Utah and TCU."

    That’s why Utah got the nod from the PAC 10, because they’re The “real juice” of the conference. Truth must hurt . .

    My son has been at the U for six years, he has only passed his grades in 2004, and 2008.

    His has now been accepted to Berkley to study chemical engineering.

    I thought flunking four of six years, he would be lost, but that is not the PAC.

    Two of six years can get you in.

    I have no idea what this has to do with sports, but then I am a Utah fan. None of us have a sports clue...

  • Veritas Aequitas
    Aug. 28, 2010 6:04 p.m.

    Utah Utes1

    A question you'll have to ask Fresno State president John Welty, who signed the $5 million agreement to stay in the WAC on Friday, and then decided to accept the MWC invitation less than 4 days later.

    Reportedly, Craig Thompson agreed to pay the $5 million exit fee for FSU and UNR if they agreed to join the MWC.


    Sounds like a deceptive, dishonest, slimey, backdoor deal.

    Ask BYU and Utah if that was their money.

    Geeze, something the moralists on this page need to look at in depth...

  • Veritas Aequitas
    Aug. 28, 2010 5:57 p.m.

    If we really wanted to spread the gospel. then we would make a BYU diploma worth less tha a U of U diploma in Bloomberg...

    Let's lose sports, and diplomas, and stop pushing our youth to excellence, rather let them think that being "weak" is great....

    Go Utes....

  • Veritas Aequitas
    Aug. 28, 2010 5:53 p.m.


    I think it is slimy and a complete lack of ethics for BYU to beat Utah in football three out of four years, and sweep them in basketball last year.

    It also made many Utah fans not feel the gospel.

    Bottom line, do it on the field and on the court...

  • mountains101
    Aug. 28, 2010 5:52 p.m.

    Bugoff wrote: Besides if BYU leaves the MTN that voids the TV contract with Comcast. There is a clause that negates the contract if both Utah and BYU leave.

    I'm sorry, where are you getting that information?

  • Tommy2Shoes
    Aug. 28, 2010 5:39 p.m.

    Since we haven't been to a BCS big $$$$$$$$$$ bowl game the MWC really shouldn't care whether we leave or not. Boise, Fort Worth, et al can do the heavy lifting once the U and Y are gone. So what if Comcast can void the contract, I'm sure you'll get a better one w/o the Cougars-right. ESPN is the way to go for BYU. Come on brethren, let's just "do it". Cast our lot with a better plan to broadcast our teams to a larger audience. Brian Santiago needs to push the guys to do the right thing. We are different and need our independence and we need it now.

  • Veritas Aequitas
    Aug. 28, 2010 5:30 p.m.

    Cougars --Best Little Brothers | 5:09 p.m.

    "Unless you have no past....
    Then you look like a fool."

    -John Uhavnothing....

    Hey, the present is empty also. What are you going to do???

  • GoUtah
    Aug. 28, 2010 5:29 p.m.

    Wow! That’s a dose of reality. BYU has "not gone to a single BCS bowl or really done anything except be a sometimes foil to the real juice of the conference, Utah and TCU."

    That’s why Utah got the nod from the PAC 10, because they’re The “real juice” of the conference. Truth must hurt . . .

  • Buster
    Aug. 28, 2010 5:26 p.m.

    ConferenceofChampions | 4:46 p.m
    Uteology | 4:44 p.m

    Please read my earlier post...

    Buster | 4:16 p.m

    Then can we please move on to Utes in the PAC???


    Uteology, excellent use of syntax. Who would have thought???

  • Captain L
    Aug. 28, 2010 5:16 p.m.

    Re Buster: Good job.

  • Cougars --Best Little Brothers
    Aug. 28, 2010 5:09 p.m.

    @Veritas Aequitas
    ...All the awards, the NC... BYU has brought it for four decades.
    Utah needs one, and Kyle/Boylen know it...

    "You can clutch the past so tightly to your chest that it leaves your arms too full to embrace the present." ~Jan Glidewell

  • redfeather
    Aug. 28, 2010 4:58 p.m.

    "I find it ironic that Dick Harmon and many BYU fans seem to think that BYU football is a way to spread the Mormon message but then wear with a badge of honor the animosity that BYU football generates. How is that building bridges with non-LDS?"

    Christ also generated lots of animosity during his earthly ministry.

    People choose to be offended.

    If they want to be offended because BYU is seeking to maximize the use of its own brand, that's their choice.

    Every year, thousands of people world-wide hear the church's message and are converted. Many thousands more hear the message and are deeply offended.

    It's not the chuch's, nor BYU's, responsibility to be concerned with whether people are offended by the message, or not.

    Nobody is forced to watch BYU football, but BYU football games have been among the highest rated games in ESPN college football history and BYU's participation in those games has produced alot of exposure for BYU and the church, and the exposure is usually, but not always, positive for the church and BYU.

  • Go Big Blue!!!
    Aug. 28, 2010 4:46 p.m.

    A couple of differences between y and U fans:

    Utes complain about not being considered for the NC after going undefeated for the second time in four years. y fans complain every year about not being considered for tne NC after winning a couple of games to start the season. Fortunately a FSU or TCU then brings in some reality.

    Utes think they belong in a BCS conference because they won two BCS Bowl games. y fans think they belong in a BCS conference because they are after all the y and they are sponsored by the big guy upstairs. Oh, and then there is that 84 NC thing that happened back in well, 1984.

    Utes receive an offer to join the PAC. y is sure that one day Texas and the Big XII will come a courting. Until that blessed day arrives (It is not coming no matter how much they beg) the y continues to scheme up plans to be relevant as they see the Utes tail lights dissapear off in the horizon.

    Brings a tear to my eye.

  • ConferenceofChampions
    Aug. 28, 2010 4:46 p.m.

    I still cant figure out why all of the zoob fans are so excited to go independent. Do you realize the quality of teams you will have to schedule? 6 potential games against watered down wac teams? Even if ESPN does broadcast the games, nobody will care. I would rather play significant competition week in and week out. That is how you better yourself.

  • Uteology
    Aug. 28, 2010 4:44 p.m.

    Grow up and stop being such a hypocrite. There's absolutely NOTHING wrong with a team striking a deal, in secret, to join another conference.


    True but only one team tried to screw it's current conference by making it harder for the MWC to raid it's new conference.

    What BYU did was unethical no matter how you try to spin it.

    BYU was involved in expantion discussions but when it was time to vote they never showed up. That's called conflict of interest: The Project vs MWC raiding WAC.

  • redfeather
    Aug. 28, 2010 4:42 p.m.

    Utah Utes1

    "Fresno evaluated both opportunities and determined to join the conference (and tv deal) BYU was trying to leave. Why?"

    That's the million dollar question isn't it?

    A question you'll have to ask Fresno State president John Welty, who signed the $5 million agreement to stay in the WAC on Friday, and then decided to accept the MWC invitation less than 4 days later.

    Fresno State's athletic department was already in such serious financial trouble that they were going to have to borrow about $3 million from their $10 million sports endowment just to keep athletics going for the coming year.

    Reportedly, Craig Thompson agreed to pay the $5 million exit fee for FSU and UNR if they agreed to join the MWC.

  • Mr. Range
    Aug. 28, 2010 4:41 p.m.

    There has been a lot said by both sides here, and this conversation could go on forever. I myself am a Utah fan, and I do not hold any disgust in BYU's decisions to do what is best for them. It was a little funny to see someone try and make fun of the PAC 10, and call us a "decent" football program. I'm not going to try and say we have more history and tradition than BYU, but we have been, an excellent football team of late. Not just two BCS wins but 8 bowl games won in a row. Plus another pre-season top 25 rankings, (coaches poll). Thats not decent, New Mexico is decent.

    And to give BYU credit they don't belong in the MWC, they deserve better because they too are an excellent football program, and have been for a long time. But Utah is now there too although much more recently.

  • sls
    Aug. 28, 2010 4:34 p.m.

    This isn't about envy of the Ute move to the Pac-10 as many have asserted. The fact is that the MWC television deal has never been acceptable; however, when Utah jumped at the final spot in the new Pac, there was no longer any reason for BYU to stay in a league that they have been subsidizing for so long. It's really amazing that TCU can't pull more support after its BCS wins, but without the natural rivalry with Utah and without an acceptable tv deal, BYU has no reason to stay in a podunk league for football.

  • Buster
    Aug. 28, 2010 4:27 p.m.

    ouisc | 4:00 p.m. Aug. 28, 2010
    Regardless of whether or not I'm a Ute fan, BYU definitely did more than "ponder." Signed contracts and private, back-door dealings is certainly more than "ponder." BYU has left a trail of destruction with all this "pondering."

    Ponder: chew over: reflect deeply on a subject...
    Explore: To seek for something or after someone; To examine or investigate something systematically; To travel somewhere in search of discovery; To examine diagnostically; To (seek) experience first hand; To be engaged exploring in any of the above senses....


    I hope this helps. BYU never claimed to ponder, they did claim to explore...


    Once again, everyone is invited to my home to watch both Utah and BYU games in my home....

    Let's have fun watching games every Saturday. I have room....

    Get my e-mail from the Des News. I give permission without anything punitive happening to them...

    I just love college football...

  • Buster
    Aug. 28, 2010 4:16 p.m.

    gringote9 | 3:25 p.m.
    I find it ironic that Dick Harmon and many BYU fans seem to think that BYU football is a way to spread the Mormon message but then wear with a badge of honor the animosity that BYU football generates. How is that building bridges with non-LDS?

    I am not so sure that if you hate mormons anyway, that BYU football will build any bridges.

    However, watching BYU football with other fans on satellite with other fans in the StakeCenters built brotherhood.

    We brought friends who just like college football. We brought snacks, and enjoyed getting together.

    If you personally need a bridge, find a member or missionary, and ask them about the gospel.

    If you want to build brotherhood, or fellowship a member out-of state, or in Utah, invite them to the games.

    Without the Saturday games, many of us will be stuck watching Utah on regional TV, when we could be watching the class of the PAC play, so will probably watch other games.


    gringote9, you are welcome to watch the games at my house on HD72" TV. Get my e-mail from DesNews...

    We can share the food....

    Utes too....

  • Buster
    Aug. 28, 2010 4:01 p.m.

    casual observer | 3:27 p.m. Aug. 28, 2010
    Football and religion don't mix, either pro or con.

    Makes you wonder why so many private religious schools, HS and College compete? (CA, Texas, NY, etc...)

    Go out of state, google it, and come back and give us your take.

    It is fun being casual and naive...

    Plenty of pro's (Pun intended), not that many con's (more Puns...)...

    Now, go out and become educated, and let us know what you think...

  • ouisc
    Aug. 28, 2010 4:00 p.m.

    Regardless of whether or not I'm a Ute fan, BYU definitely did more than "ponder." Signed contracts and private, back-door dealings is certainly more than "ponder." BYU has left a trail of destruction with all this "pondering."

  • Chadders
    Aug. 28, 2010 4:00 p.m.

    What are U fans going to do if BYU stops playing them and starts their rivalry with USU? I honestly think the U's publicity will start going down. Look at any BYU article and the number of comments and compare it to any Ute article. What is it usually 5 to 1 comments for BYU?
    If BYU goes independent and has ESPN on their side they will make multiple BCS bowls. Just look what ESPN has done for BSU. I don't understand why they are leaving ESPN behind to join the MWC? Ute fans are gonna throw a tizzy fit if BYU still is more successful and gets more attention than they do. Wait they already are. Grow up U of U. You might have a decent football program and great Medical school but everything else is mediocre at best.

  • Buster
    Aug. 28, 2010 3:45 p.m.

    Howard S. | 3:00 p.m. Aug. 28, 2010

    If I were a Cougar fan I would be petrified that the BOT will look at the level of mutual animosity between the BYU athletic program and other programs and decide that its time to go all "Ricks College" on BYU athletics.

    OK, who watched Ricks College???


    The animosity is not new.

    And there are far too many BYU fans (former students, and people who enjoy watching their football teams and basketball teams win to worry about disgruntled fans that watch thier teams lose)...

    Get national exposure (not the regional exposure that the Utes will have), and let them build brotherhood, from the firesides to the games.

    I want to watch both teams play.

    I'm lucky, I can watch the regional games, unlike those other Ute fans around the country...

    Go BYU Utah nationally, and Utes (I hope you can win) regionally.

    I think Utah should have waited for the national exposure, and not just a score across the ESPN ticker when they play a top 25 team....

    Either way, great athletic games will be played by both teams....

  • Utes Fan
    Aug. 28, 2010 3:30 p.m.

    You said: "@Utes Fan
    It goes both ways. I, relatives, and other acquaintances have experienced prejudice and discrimination based merely on the fact we went to BYU. I'll admit there are a few zealous fans that give the Church and BYU a black eye, but don't presume Ute fans are so squeeky clean. Both you and I know better."

    I never said Ute fans are "squeeky clean". They are not. Many of them are obnoxious. Some BYU fans are obnoxious. Rarely do BYU fans admit it. I have yet to meet a Ute fan that won't admit their fans are often obnoxious. However, I rarely meet a BYU fan who admits the same of their own. This is where the problem lies.

  • casual observer
    Aug. 28, 2010 3:27 p.m.

    Football and religion don't mix, either pro or con.

  • gringote9
    Aug. 28, 2010 3:25 p.m.

    I find it ironic that Dick Harmon and many BYU fans seem to think that BYU football is a way to spread the Mormon message but then wear with a badge of honor the animosity that BYU football generates. How is that building bridges with non-LDS?

    Sponsoring a major college football team does not seem to be an effective tool for spreading a message of love and service. It seems to be achieving the opposite. I think it's time for BYU to either drop football or tone it way down.

  • Veritas Aequitas
    Aug. 28, 2010 3:15 p.m.

    So we have a TCU writer...

    Who is she?

    Wyoming. Isn't that the place they used to heat up coins with cigarette lighters and throw them at our basketball players?

    SDSU. I remember thirty years ago watching a BYU- SDSU football game with my cousin, who was predicting the demise of BYU and the National Arrival of SDSU in football...


    BYU has played too many games, and beaten too many WAC-MWC "rivals" in football and basketball to read anything into what their sportswriters think.

    Can't we worry about getting the games on ESPN and BYU-TV so people who want to watch the games can see them?

    Fredette... Vitale would show every BYU basketball game on TV and cover it, because... BYU is just too fun to watch, and has been for forty years... (Not six, Otis/Naval/COC...)

    All the awards, the NC... BYU has brought it for four decades.

    Utah needs one, and Kyle/Boylen know it.

    If they can sustain it for four more years...

    Am I worried about the sources "cited"...? Nope.

    Am I excited for our next Heisman, HowardS?

    Sure, but I am a College fan first, you could be too.

  • vegassportsfan
    Aug. 28, 2010 3:09 p.m.

    If the criteria of the BYU haters is that BYU hasn't played in a BCS bowl game and are therefore not qualified for BCS consideration and thus haven't proven anything, then with that logic we should look at every team in a BCS conference that has not played in a BCS bowl game and remove them from their BCS conference affiliation and make them earn there way back in. Doing that is as stupid as saying until you play in a BCS bowl you haven't proven anything.

  • Utah Utes1
    Aug. 28, 2010 3:02 p.m.

    redfeather | 2:36 p.m. Aug. 28, 2010

    Under the heading that everyone is trying to do what's best for themselves...please explain to me why, when Fresno State had the MOU they allegedly helped author and an invitation to the MWC in hand at the same time, they chose to leave the WAC?

    Fresno evaluated both opportunities and determined to join the conference (and tv deal) BYU was trying to leave.


  • Howard S.
    Aug. 28, 2010 3:00 p.m.

    If I were a Cougar fan I would be petrified that the BOT will look at the level of mutual animosity between the BYU athletic program and other programs and decide that its time to go all "Ricks College" on BYU athletics.

  • Henry Drummond
    Aug. 28, 2010 2:56 p.m.

    I really enjoyed the column. Dick is right. Success sometimes breeds contempt. People say and do things just because they are jealous of another team's good fortune and performance. You certainly see that in many of the comments and actions being aimed at the Cougars but we have to be honest here, BYU is not immune from doing the same to people they are jealous of like Utah.

    At the end of the column Dick states "Now to find redemption, BYU has to produce something extraordinary out of this mess." I think that is what got BYU to this point in the first place. They were trying to answer their Great Rival's success by claiming the system was unfair and to prove the point they tried to do something extraordinary by going independent and getting a fat contract out of ESPN.

    Obviously it didn't work and to quote CS Lewis: "You've got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em. Know when to walk away and when to run." (At least I think that's where Kenny Rogers got the words to "The Gambler").

  • RR
    Aug. 28, 2010 2:52 p.m.

    I love all the negative talk towards BYU! That only happens to schools that win! Look at USC, Florida, Ohio State. Everyone hates them because they win. BYU is that team in the MWC. It's good to be a fan of a team that wins. Who cares about lousy SDSU or arrogant TCU writers anyways.

  • Buster
    Aug. 28, 2010 2:41 p.m.

    Otis Spurlock | 11:26 a.m.
    I'm glad Utah's football team decided to take the high road and stand on moral ground when they left the MWC. All Utah fans can hold their heads high and know that Utah acted with honor and without deceit.

    If waiting around to be the last one chosen is the high moral ground and honorable, awesome.

    As Utah becomes the Vanderbilt of the PAC, know that you have honor.

    If, as BYU did, honestly stating your intentions, and taking the road less traveled is deceit, then I think "that word does not mean what you think it means".


    BYU and Utah generated 80% of the money for the MWC TV contract.

    Of that 80%, BYU generated 70%.

    If Texas had gone PAC, then Tom Holmoe had full intentions, with the "appreciation" of Dr. Hill, to include Utah in their plans for the move.

    I would cite my source, but it is an unidentified source within the University of Utah Athletic Department (sorta like the Unidentified sources at USU that leaked BYU's intentions).


    So Utah is lucky Texas did the deceitful thing they did, so Utah can remain honorable.


    I'm connected...

  • redfeather
    Aug. 28, 2010 2:36 p.m.


    As reported by the media, Fresno State's president was one of the co-authors of the plan for BYU to rejoin the WAC in all-sports except football.

    Only in your BYU-hating world is there a difference between Utah negotiating with the PAC 10 in secret to leave the MWC and BYU negotiating in secret with the WAC to leave the MWC.

    Grow up and stop being such a hypocrite. There's absolutely NOTHING wrong with a team striking a deal, in secret, to join another conference.

    Didn't the Big 12 sign a pact to stay together as a condition of Texas not jumping to the PAC 10?

    So, what's the difference between that, and the WAC schools signing a pact to stay together if BYU joined their conference?

    Both pacts were signed as a condition to achieving a mutally agreed upon outcome.

  • idablu
    Aug. 28, 2010 2:15 p.m.

    It is not about the BCS.

    The many detractors are missing the point. BYU's prospective move out of the MWC is NOT about improving their position in the BCS, although that would be nice. It is about improving exposure and improving revenue. That's it. We may fall flat on our face or we might be very successful in achieving these 2 goals. BYU fans are overwhelmingly in favor of going independent because most don't think it will be too difficult to improve exposure and revenue over the current situation of staying in MWC. ESPN knows BYU is a draw. Even if they haven't been to a BCS, BYU still has a draw and a value. That is just the way it is. Maybe that is what drives the haters crazy.

    I would love for my Cougs to go to a BCS, but even if staying in the MWC meant a better chance for playing in a BCS game (which I do believe, btw)
    I would want them out of MWC. I think most fans would agree. Freedom is a precious thing.

  • idablu
    Aug. 28, 2010 1:50 p.m.

    @Utes Fan
    It goes both ways. I, relatives, and other acquaintances have experienced prejudice and discrimination based merely on the fact we went to BYU. I'll admit there are a few zealous fans that give the Church and BYU a black eye, but don't presume Ute fans are so squeeky clean. Both you and I know better.

    @Die Hard
    Your concern for true BYU fans is truly touching. I can assure you that the large majority of BYU fans in the mountain west are all in favor of BYU bolting the MWC. Now they actually might be able to see their games on TV. No, Die Hard, your blind hatred for all things BYU has made YOU delusional. Please tell me, why do you care? Why does it bother you so much that BYU might go independent? Why are you and many Ute fans so obsessed with BYU and their attempt to improve exposure?

  • scenic view
    Aug. 28, 2010 1:40 p.m.

    In the words of Bill Murray:

    "It just doesn't matter..."

    Don't be concerned about the inane comments of bloggers and "media" people with their own ax to grind.

    BYU needs to do what's in BYU's best interests.

    In the end, it just doesn't matter what the BYU haters think about BYU's future plans, because the haters will always find something to hate, regardless of what BYU does.

  • Uteology
    Aug. 28, 2010 1:34 p.m.

    They [BYU and USU] stepped in a dirty pond of liars, deceivers and alleged back-stabbers and swam a few laps.


    That's funny, as reported by the media, BYU and USU collaborated to undermine MWC ability to raid the WAC as a precondition to going indey. At the very least BYU was unethical as a member of the MWC.

    I wonder why it was reported that the presidents of the MWC were "caught off-guard" when BYU did not vote on the expansion and was absent. Hmmm maybe conflict of interests with "The Project".

  • panamadesnews
    Aug. 28, 2010 12:54 p.m.

    Johnny Utah:

    Good blog, except for the next to last paragraph. Do you people not understand that BYU merely desires to use the means they have (their broadcast facility) to help them in their recruiting. That, more than anything else, makes or breaks a team's success. BYU wants to increase their viewability, nothing more, nothing less. If you want to call that arrogance, then so be it. BYU is just like any other team - doing what is best for them.

  • worf
    Aug. 28, 2010 12:52 p.m.

    With Utah going to the pac-10, why this ute bitterment for BYU going independent? I don't get it!

    During the 1970's & 80's, BYU beat Utah about 18 of 20 games. In trying to beat BYU, Utah grew stronger in football. They took BYU players for coaches, their passing game, and recruited Hawaiian players. They copied BYU and have done very well the past several years. The utes have been a good apprentice and the cougars have taught them well. Over the past four years, the cougars have had to play alittle harder to keep winning. Now its time for the utes to leave big brother and the Mountain West home and fend for themselves. Maybe big brother cougars will do something similar. Hopefully both teams will represent the state well.

  • Bugoff
    Aug. 28, 2010 12:39 p.m.

    There are several points that many posters on here are ignoring.

    1. The administrations of BYU, Utah and USU have cooperated quietly together for years, maybe decades. They were partners in the various conference experiments and TV contracts. BYU and Utah created the MTN. They were the WAC for a long time. Fans might not like it but the Utah schools have worked together for the mutual interest of the Utah schools for years.

    2. Utah has just as much to do with creating and destroying the MTN as BYU. BYU is just more open about.

    3. The ability to go independent, join a BCS conference, demand better TV rights is not dependent on getting into a BCS game or for that matter winning it. Hawaii got into a BCS bowl. Where are they? Up a creek in the WAC or going independent. CO, WSU, IL, ORstate, Kstate, Louisville, Wake Forest, Kansas, and Cincinnati played in BCS bowls. They are just as good as TCU, Utah and BSU by that criteria.

    Are the above schools actually better than BYU. Most football people would say no.

    Manipulating the criteria to prove your point is not convincing.

  • Ute Bird Mascot
    Aug. 28, 2010 12:36 p.m.

    hedgehog | 10:55 a.m. Aug. 28, 2010
    "BYU will need to get A LOT better to reach the level of a TCU and BSU."

    Gotta make the Utes feel lucky to get out of the tougher MWC...

    BYU, BSU and TCU have quite the habit of beating them...

  • panamadesnews
    Aug. 28, 2010 12:36 p.m.

    What fixes should BYU brass make? If you are referring to the Sunday play, it will never happen in your lifetime or mine.

    Howard S:
    Who cares what you think that whatever BYU does it will not compare to the U being invited to the PAC 10. You are once again showing your arrogance that you and your ilk accuse BYU of. BYU wil do what is best for BYU - they have that right and it is not arrogance, it is being smart!

  • Buster
    Aug. 28, 2010 12:33 p.m.

    Mid-Major Cougars, HedgeHog/Conference of Champions/Naval,

    Hey, guess what!!! I understand why your posts make no sense. Just really pay attention to the last line. I love this whole "comment a quote" day.

    "Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable."
    C. S. Lewis

  • IdahoHobo4U
    Aug. 28, 2010 12:33 p.m.

    Mr Harmon's statement that "[BYU]is doing what any of the remaining league schools would do if they had the same assets" troubles me. Respectfully, what 'assets' are you referring to? Football prowess? BYU is simply, if not humbly, a very good 'mid-major' football program. If the reference is to wealth and influence I can certainly agree with the disparity between BYU and others in the league. However, it would seem arrogant and unchristian-like for BYU to flaunt such a fact about as other 'mortal' public schools face steep economic downturns in their budgets.

    I would hope that BYU can appreciate the possibility that the MWC will improve its conference access towards BCS inclusion soon. BYU can help by staying the course. The BYU I respect is the one that develops great people, players, friendships, and friendly rivalries. They are helpful (not hurtful) to their fellow conference members. At the very least, they could defer the urge to appear like they need and/or deserve more share in the common stock - at lest until economic times improve.

  • Howard S.
    Aug. 28, 2010 12:29 p.m.

    Dick speaks from the perspective of BYU as the victim of unfair attacks from those around the conference and the region.

    What he fails to acknowledge is the contempt that BYU and their supporters freely express for their conference partners and those who support those schools.

    As an example you need look no further than the expressions of Max Hall.

    It all makes me wonder why BYU manages their conference relationships and "assets" in such a way that provokes such MUTUAL contempt.

    Is that how the message of BYU's sponsoring institution is advanced?

  • Utes Fan
    Aug. 28, 2010 12:29 p.m.

    Might I also add that BYU needs to do what is best for them - it is really a business issue. I have no problem with BYU going independent or whatever is in their best interests. Just like I supported Utah's move to the PAC-10.

    But, the irony is, that the BCS system that we all love to hate is doing the same thing: protecting their own business interests.

    I hope we don't all become hypocrites (both BYU and Utah supporters) and praise our schools for doing what is in their best business interest, and then forget that we all lambasted the BCS system for doing what they feel is in their best business interests. We can't expect the BCS to relent on their business interests when we don't want to do the same for our own self-interests.

  • Veritas Aequitas
    Aug. 28, 2010 12:28 p.m.

    Utah Utes1 | 11:19 a.m. Aug. 28, 2010

    "I struggle with the way in which BYU faithful hold themselves out as martyrs"

    Max Hall hates me.
    Austin Collie hurt my feelings.

    Why not let me paraphrase a quote...

    "There's no crying in "FOOTBALL"...

  • Utes Fan
    Aug. 28, 2010 12:24 p.m.

    I wish you Cougar fans would realize that some of the criticism is from your own actions. I am active, temple attending LDS, and I am a Ute Fan. That doesn't mean I hate BYU - not at all. I hope they always do well.

    But when you have been told that the school you attended is of the devil, or that the school you attended is "gross", or "immoral" or whatever, and when you are told that you can't be hired for employment because you graduated from "that school" etc. etc. you might begin to understand some of the animosity towards BYU. It gets tired, BYU supporters. And I can't imagine how offensive it is to people not of the LDS faith. Fortunately, most BYU supporters don't act this way. Unfortunately, the few who do, magnify the animosity towards you 10-fold.

  • mijay29
    Aug. 28, 2010 12:14 p.m.

    BYU is a great team and have knocked off some big named schools in the past. Most recently beating UCLA 59-0 and Oklahoma last year. I say stick with independence and move on from this crazy conference. The other teams in the Mountain will miss us. In particular, they will miss the money BYU brings into it. BYU will continue to be great while Utah will move itself into mediocrity.

  • SoCalUtahFan
    Aug. 28, 2010 12:02 p.m.

    Another quote:

    "You are not owed respect. You must earn respect." from my late great father.
    (don't know if it's his own or he quoted someone)

  • Cougar Claws
    Aug. 28, 2010 11:59 a.m.

    I have to agree with a few of the earlier posters, no one has done anything wrong, including Utah, BYU, Nebraska, Colorado, Nevada, or Fresno St. Everyone is simply trying to make whatever decisions are best for them. In the case of BYU to the MWC, do we owe you anything? Are we in some way obligated to allow the other schools to continue to leech off of us? No, we don't owe the Mountain West anything, any more than Utah did. Utah did what was right by them, and that's what BYU is trying to do. I'll admit I wish BYU was in Utah's shoes with a spot in the PAC 10. Now BYU has to come up with the next best option aside from being in an AQ conference. Nothing is wrong or dishonest here it's just plain and straightforward business. Ask yourselves, if you owned a business and the financially intelligent decision was to sign a deal with a quality vendor vs much lower quality vendors who have been casual acquantances over the years, what choice would you make? I don't even think I have to ask.

  • arsphd
    Aug. 28, 2010 11:58 a.m.

    The MWC is a cesspool of ugly step-sister teams. Any school with a tiny ounce of respect should bolt for the door and get as far away from the mtn. and its pathetic management as soon as possible.

  • Mid-Major Cougars
    Aug. 28, 2010 11:52 a.m.

    From C.S. Lewis, also:

    "We all want progress, but if you're on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; in that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive."

  • Utah Utes1
    Aug. 28, 2010 11:50 a.m.

    Bluto | 9:52 a.m. Aug. 28, 2010

    "Your prestige is manufactured in your own minds. You are "Coat-Tailing" others, just as the Wyoming's and UNLV's have "Coat-Tailed" BYU's success.

    BYU, on the other hand, has the ability, National Casche and Tradition to forge their own way."

    Interesting perspective, Bluto (Chuckie, Buster, etc.). So, BYU intended to be a parasite on the WAC because they can "forge their own way?"


    "Utah could never cut singular deals with ESPN." True enough for the time being. Tell me, Bluto...what BCS conference has extended an invitation to BYU?

    Are we not talking about different opportunities here, Chuckie? Who says quasi-independence is the standard? Oh, that's right...you, as of about a week ago.

    Do you understand why so many struggle with your credibility, Bluto.

  • Nostradamus
    Aug. 28, 2010 11:43 a.m.

    Pretty good artcle - Mr. Harmon is on a roll.

    On another front, how quick we are to judge. Suddenly, any criticism causes outwardly kind and chrisitian people to toss out words like "BYU hater". Really, I would think that if there were a "honor code" for these blogs - most who espouse this honor would not be living up to it.

    I have felt all along the BYU football program casts a bad light amongst many - a large number of people watch BYU games in hopes they lose. Is that the exposure desired...are these blogs the reactions sought?

    If you many church going BYU fans really want to have BYU football cast a positive light on the Church...re-read what you write before you post it.

    Just a thought...oh, and GO UTES!

  • NewMexicoUte
    Aug. 28, 2010 11:31 a.m.

    Not to be more critical of BYU, but I agree with Columnist Engel from Dallas-Ft Worth Newspaper, "BYU has not gone to a single BCS game but have become the foil to the two teams in the MWC, Utah and TCU."

    BYU cannot demand respect just because they are BYU have constantly emphasize their national following. IMO, BYU is using "national exposure" as an excuse to for more publicity. Plain and simple, its about Utah and TCU, powerhouse teams of the MWC and now Utah going to the Pac-10. BYU hates, and feels they deserve respect, period.

    If they want publicity, national exposure, and respect they need to:

    1. First, go UNDEFEATED in the conference they are currently in (like TCU and Utah before them)

    2. Receive a BCS berth (be invited, very possible like TCU and Utah before them)

    3. Win a BCS game! (very possible, like TCU and Utah before them)

    BYU expects/demands respects without even have played or won a BCS game. That is how you EARN respect. No one cares if you are BYU, go to the BCS and win, then you'll get respect.

    Utah and TCU did it, they are respected!

  • Mid-Major Cougars
    Aug. 28, 2010 11:29 a.m.

    ...Yea, the MWC schools are all going to be upset and say bad things about BYU if they go indy...

    Half right.
    They will say worse things if BYU stays now.

  • Mid-Major Cougars
    Aug. 28, 2010 11:27 a.m.

    BYU should do the honorable thing...leave MWC.

    If BYU stays, then they should not demand re-negotiation of the TV contract that BYU agreed to a few years back.

  • Otis Spurlock
    Aug. 28, 2010 11:26 a.m.

    I'm glad Utah's football team decided to take the high road and stand on moral ground when they left the MWC. All Utah fans can hold their heads high and know that Utah acted with honor and without deceit. Good time to be a Ute Fan!!

  • Utah Utes1
    Aug. 28, 2010 11:19 a.m.

    Thanks for pulling all those articles together, Dick...BYU is certainly receiving exposure.

    I struggle with the way in which BYU faithful hold themselves out as martyrs for a just cause yet take zero responsibility for their own actions. It's almost like You enjoy the persecution yet, it is perfectly acceptable in the moral code to state that BYU "stepped in a dirty pond of liars, deceivers and alleged back-stabbers and swam a few laps." What? no bigots this time, Dick??

    When one party feels wronged, you can bet the truth will "percolate" to the top. The documents that have surfaced leave little doubt that BYU's intention was to not only change its conference but to dictate the terms upon which it would be carried out. Two schools didn't like was BYU was selling but USU explicitly and completely trusted BYU to follow through with the plan BYU set in motion.

    Who are the "liars," "deceivers," and "backstabbers" to whom you refer?

    From a post above...

    "Integrity is keeping my commitments even if the circumstances when I made those commitments have changed." — David Jeremiah

  • Tarheel Ute
    Aug. 28, 2010 11:01 a.m.

    Why criticize BYU? Almost a rhetorical question as explained by Dick. Otherwise pride and honor explains much of it. Men go to blows, families split and counties have gone to war for nothing less. BYU may have for years been looking at opportunities to advance their program, but Utah’s decision jump is the current catalyst. Had BYU jumped or gone independent first, Utah would also be looking to likewise advance — it simply could not be otherwise.

    We Utah fans and bloggers should feel honored and far less prideful; understanding our good fortune. Utah’s move was not of their on making; it was a second or third order effect of Texas’s decision not to join the PAC10. But once offered, Utah, for the prestige as much as for financial reasons took the opportunity. We should now be far more focused on Panthers not Cougars. The Panthers are certainly focused on the Utahs as the 2nd approaches.

    Otherwise, BYU, for pride and honor, as much financial concerns and exposure, must match Utah. BYU fans demand it. BYU’s AD, if not this year, certainly next year -will respond.

  • hedgehog
    Aug. 28, 2010 10:55 a.m.

    BYU will need to get A LOT better to reach the level of a TCU and BSU. Clearly, the tds is a third place MWC"mid major" program at best - that will not help in getting noticed by the BCS conferences. I agree with most of you kewgs that indy is really the only option.

    If you can't win in the MWC then create a senerio inwhich you can.... Desperate times call for desperate measures.

  • fan29
    Aug. 28, 2010 10:39 a.m.

    I don't know where to start.The only reasons these major conferences stay away from BYU is it's NO PLAY ON SUNDAY POLICY!!! They give lip service about that's not the reason, buy why turn down a school that draws 65,000 to home football games year in and year out. Basketball 15,000 to 22,000 every game and the other programs all compete at the highest level with the best facilities. There isn't a school in the MWC that comes close to matching BYU in these area's and that includes UTAH. These Conferences don't give a hoot about the higher education, all they care about is the $$$$$. I would like to see BYU change is no play on Sunday policy, but that will NEVER HAPPEN and that's ok because I believe you always stick to your principles. I do hope they leave the MWC, go Independent and wait for a better opportunity. It will happen, they bring to much to the table.

    Aug. 28, 2010 10:32 a.m.

    Who cares about what a women who writes in Dallas and a jealous old guy who lives in Laramie say. Her no BCS game argument sounds like she knows about as much about football as a 6th grader. History, fan base and assets all go into this. She is obviously ignorant towards BYU's football program, and the Mormon religion. I used to live in Laramie and Mr. Hammond is a guy who writes for a newspaper that is about one centimeter thick, and that is on sunday. And that woman obviously doesn't pay that close attention. In the last four years no one in the conference has won more games or conference championships than BYU. They are just

  • dnut
    Aug. 28, 2010 10:19 a.m.

    Nobody has done anything wrong in my opinion. Byu, Fresno St., Nevada, Boise St., Texas and Utah are all trying to improve their situation. BYU has and is continuing to do hush-hush negotiations just like everyone else. I wish BYU the best of luck, and hope they really do get the money and exposure you deserve. But Dick Harmon saying BYU has been mistreated by 'back-biters' is ridiculous.

  • patriot
    Aug. 28, 2010 10:15 a.m.

    Without any BCS bowl on its resume the Y is really not in a good position and that's why I doubt going independent is not going to help them. Both Utah and TCU as well as Boise all have BCS on their resumes and can therefore talk but until you reach that level you really are barking in the wind. Had the Y won two BCU games like Utah I have every reason to believe the Y would be in the Big 12 right now.. no question. I really don't see BYU ever reaching the heights of the U or TCU for that matter simply because they are so limited on who they can recruit and and when they can play. The real question to be answered is .. will BYU , the Church and the Cougar Club be content in staying in the MWC and being a middle of the pack finisher? The MWC has TCU, Boise, Fresno now and that could be the new BIG 3 for the MWC with the Y taking its place beside the Wyomings and Colorado States.

  • Beeker10
    Aug. 28, 2010 10:09 a.m.

    It must be terrible for the other MWC schools to hate BYU so badly, yet be forced to literally beg, cheat and lie to keep them in your conference!! To be dependent upon BYU to keep your conference afloat! I absolutely love it!! I hope they are all losing sleep over it!

  • mr. ideas
    Aug. 28, 2010 10:07 a.m.

    BYU should create their own league where games are won and lost by the ratio of home and away fans.

    Let the ballroom dance company paint their faces and prance around the field west side story style for crowd entertainment.

    It would ne nice to see BYU's only national BCS argument of crowd participation

  • mattb7
    Aug. 28, 2010 9:59 a.m.

    The source of most of the ill will toward the Y comes from a combination of naivete and arrogance that makes many of its fans quick to point out Utes who pour beer on Y fans . . . but unable to notice the Y fans pouring Sprite on U fans or throwing rocks at cars that feature Go Ute stickers. Some Y fans reading this right now are still clinging to the fantasy of "Y standards are too high for any such behavior." No. It happens a lot. I went to a Y-Aggie game two seasons ago and--as someone who's served in two LDS bishoprics--was embarrassed by the behavior of the BYU fans. And there's reluctance among Y fans to acknowledge how many upstanding young men of all stripes including returned Mormon missionaries play for . . . the U. The anti-Y sentiment out there is not just about "how great BYU football is"; Y football has been only good in recent years. The U, TCU--these are the two MWC programs that have been great. When BYU finally earns its way into a BCS game and wins it, it can join the club. I hope it does.

  • dnut
    Aug. 28, 2010 9:58 a.m.

    Dick Harmon writes: "They stepped in a dirty pond of liars, deceivers and alleged back-stabbers and swam a few laps."

    I almost fell out of my chair reading this!! Are you kidding me? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

    "The campus is our world"

  • Bluto
    Aug. 28, 2010 9:52 a.m.

    A reality check for the Utah Trolls...

    Utah is "Not an Equal partner with the Pac-12".

    It will take 5 years for Uteville, to have equal revenue sharing with the "Mid to Bottom" teams of the league.

    USC, Oregon, UCLA, Washington, will demand a larger share of the TV pie in the new tv deal.

    Utah's place in the pecking order will be quite evident in the next TV deal.

    The new Paradigm, is that the Big Dogs will get the bigger cut.

    Texas and Oklahoma are not "Equally" sharing revenues with Iowa State, Baylor etc.

    Utah, you are at Washington State money, get used to it.

    Your prestige is manufactured in your own minds. You are "Coat-Tailing" others, just as the Wyoming's and UNLV's have "Coat-Tailed" BYU's success.

    BYU, on the other hand, has the ability, National Casche and Tradition to forge their own way.

    Utah could never cut singular deals with ESPN. After Utahs's great win over Alabama, it was BYU that ESPN showcased for the biggest game of opening weekend in Dallas.

    Soon if not this year, BYU will embrace Capitaism
    and reject Socialistic Utopia.

  • Idaho Coug
    Aug. 28, 2010 9:48 a.m.

    Obviously as a Cougar fan I fully support BYU's effort to maximize it's assets and mission. The ONLY thing that has not sat right with me is that it seems BYU and Utah have done EXACTLY what the BCS schools have done - whatever they possibly could to improve their own situation.

    The CS Lewis quotes could have been used just as easily by those forming the current BCS system. I guess I just wish we hadn't been so outspoken about the unfairness of the BCS when in reality Utah did and we would join them in a heartbeat. It wasn't that we were so concerned about fairness as we were just bent that we weren't a part of it.

    When an organization makes bold moves to better themselves it is always at the expense of someone else. In the BCS scenario it was at the expense of us. In this current scenario it has (inadvertently) been at the expense of the WAC and Utah State.

    Again, I am not saying BYU is wrong at all for making these moves. I just wish we didn't complain quite so loudly when others did the same.

  • Johney Utah
    Aug. 28, 2010 9:47 a.m.


    My comment "Why have comments if you don't tolerate dissent" was directed at the screener because my previous comment was not posted for some time. However my original comment was posted-- eventually (And after two subsequent postings inquiring as to why it was not posted). So consider my comment about dissent withdrawn. And I will disregard your comments which came from misunderstood context.

  • aggie80
    Aug. 28, 2010 9:41 a.m.

    I have hated BYU for as long as I can remember, but the slander and name calling over this has reached such a pitch that I might reconsider and cheer for the Cougs this year. The other MWC schools, including Utah, can say whatever they want about BCS appearances, but when it comes right down to it, BYU is, and always has been the only team in that conference with any sort of national pull. Utah didn't even have fans 10 years ago and could only sell out a much smaller Rice-Eccles every other year when the Cougars came to town--a fact they so conveniently sweep under the rug in their post-Urban delusions of grandeur. And there is a reason that TCU has been bouncing around from conference to conference for the past 20 years since the creation of the Big 12--nobody cares about them enough to watch them. People hate BYU and people love BYU, and they all watch them regardless.

  • AZguy
    Aug. 28, 2010 9:35 a.m.

    I love the Cougs. They are not in a big 6 conference. That is a fact of life. Independance is a 2nd tier choice, but their best option. It is better than the MWC. "It is what it is." So, go independent and make it work. It it leads to a better conference down the road, all the better. If it does not, make independence successfull.

  • R.Burgundy
    Aug. 28, 2010 9:31 a.m.

    Yea, the MWC schools are all going to be upset and say bad things about BYU if they go indy but, the last thing AD's will say is "when can we schedule some Football and Basketball games with you" I think it takes time to form a new conference, thus the silence from the Y and other Presidents.

  • AZguy
    Aug. 28, 2010 9:29 a.m.

    M98-I don't think you understand why BYU has never been invited to the PAC. It is a religious bias. Call it conservative views, whatever. I am not complaining or whining, that is just the way it is. It is ok. If you want to say it has to do with research, that's fine too. I don't think BYU should pump billions into try to become a research institution so it can go to the PAC. that is only half the equation. There will still be the religious/conservative bias. I am not discounting the UU invite to the PAC. It was well planning and well deserved. Whether you like it or not BYU draws people to the stadiums and eyeballs to the TV-more than the U and TCU.

    Howard S. Very true statement. Nothing BYU does will go as well as the U's inclusion into the PAC.

  • RobSing
    Aug. 28, 2010 9:28 a.m.

    I think BYU fans are arrogant little cry babies! Can't stand to see Utah get all the positive attention so you gotta try to justify with yourselves in any way you can. Dick Harmon made a fool of himself on ESPN and he's done it again!

  • seankrob
    Aug. 28, 2010 9:28 a.m.

    Great article and expresses how many of us feel who care about and enjoy being part of BYU. It is interesting that all the other universities who have made moves in the last two months have done what is in the best interest of their university but when BYU attempts to do the same thing we are self centered, egotistical and just plain evil for attempting to decided what will be best for us.
    It tells me BYU is on the right track with what they are in the process of deciding to do.

  • Cougars --Best Little Brothers
    Aug. 28, 2010 9:26 a.m.

    "I choose goodness... I will go without a dollar before I take a dishonest one. I will be overlooked before I will boast. I will confess before I will accuse. I choose goodness."

    Max Lucado

  • Laser
    Aug. 28, 2010 9:25 a.m.

    Hey, if they league hates you why stay? Unless the hate is born out of jealousy? Hmmm...

    Say goodbye to your gravy train MWC...to bad you decided to bite the hand that was feeding you.

  • SoCalUtahFan
    Aug. 28, 2010 9:24 a.m.

    Dear Dick,

    May I also quote the great C.S. Lewis:

    "Integrity is doing the right thing, even when no one is watching." – C.S. Lewis

    and others:
    "Integrity is keeping my commitments even if the circumstances when I made those commitments have changed." – David Jeremiah
    "We should often feel ashamed of our best actions if the world could see all the motives which produced them." – Francis de la Rochefoucauld

  • WestCoast1
    Aug. 28, 2010 9:22 a.m.

    At 1:03 a.m. Aug. 28 cougsrock wrote: "Great article Dick. There is little room at the top. Howard A pig with lipstick is still a pig. Goodluck at the bottom of the PAC sty."

    And may we wish you the best of luck as you journey into your WAC/WCC/independence oblivion.

  • Laser
    Aug. 28, 2010 9:18 a.m.

    The critics have double standard. The PAC 10 does one of the nastiest takeover efforts ever seen and it's called "business". BYU does some minor by comparison and the hatred is off the charts.

    BYU will never take its cues from it's critics. It is only doing something other schools have done, but because they are a religious school and are willing to keep intact their standards, they'll have to do it alone.

    I am amazed at the double standard, not only by Utah fans, but by the media in general. All this and BYU hasn't even said a word.

  • OlpuebloguyInWyo
    Aug. 28, 2010 9:14 a.m.

    Ditto Observation-ist. Those institutions in the MWC who feel negatively towards BYU, will feel it if they leave. Or, if they stay, they should see the fruits of BYU' labors. And in fact, as you see written by many here, most cannot even fill their stadiums for games, until BYU comes to town. This is why the WAC would love to have them play their teams.

  • Honest Abe
    Aug. 28, 2010 9:13 a.m.

    It is now past time that BYU leaves the MWC and goes independent.

  • BlueHusky
    Aug. 28, 2010 9:12 a.m.

    Boo hoo! Everybody hates BYU. Well, a lot of people "hate" Notre Dame, USC, Texas, Oklahoma, Yankees, Red Sox, Cowboys, ...

    In short, having people hate you is a sign of success. Of course losers hate BYU. I hate USC and Oregon. As a BYU fan I relish the haters. It's fun to read their ridiculous posts. Especially after each BYU win over them. I'm hoping some people will start hating UW again after the Dawgs go to the Rose Bowl this year. I especially love Oregon UW haters. Ducks are foul. Utes are ... non-entities in the PACxx yet. I wonder if anybody will ever hate them. Nobody hates WSU, AZ, ASU, Cal.

    Bring it on! DO IT NOW COUGS. The MWC can pound sand!

  • RaininTime
    Aug. 28, 2010 9:07 a.m.

    @ East of Utah.

    I have lived here in Utah for over 25 years. If they could, some would form gangs and hunt BYU fans.

    Just ask them.

    The hatred for BYU runs deeper than what reality dictates. Testimonies are depleted because of BYU. Mainly because they applied to BYU and were denied.

    The jack-mormon population here is easily approaching a million people. And they hate the LDS church, they hate BYU, and they hate their Bishop.

    Other than a few, the media is predominantly Liberal, and a story about BYU will draw the ire and scrutiny of the media, while the obvious deceptions of the U of U (Sports or otherwise) go un-reported. Their basketball program resembles that of a High School. Their B-ball coaches since Majerus haven't exactly ....... won much. Their football was 3rd, yep 3rd in the MWC. And let's not forget that the U of U was the Pac-10's 7th or 8th choice ........ which their fans use as a platform for Superiority.

    Hey, I like the Pac 10, but Washington State doesn't exactly jump out at you, nor Oregon State, nor Arizona.

    BYU.....its about exposure

  • TwinsGuy
    Aug. 28, 2010 9:06 a.m.

    People who get mad at BYU for seeking their own best interests remind me of those who claim that the United States is arrogant for seeking her own best national interests when every other country on earth does exactly the same thing.

    Do you think that France or Russia or Finland don't always do what they think is in their best interest? Do you think that Utah or SDSU or TCU don't do what is in their best interest? Of course they do! Most MWC schools just have fewer options than BYU because their athletic programs stink. SDSU would've been invited to the PAC 10 years ago if they were any good. Wyoming should be a 1-AA school in football because they're in the middle of nowhere and nobody wants to play there.

  • rogerdodger
    Aug. 28, 2010 9:00 a.m.

    How is it that BYU fans keep saying that they are so much more dominant than Utah and TCU. Seriously BYU fans. How are you enjoying that money from Utah's 2 BCS games and from TCU's BCS game. It's the same money that Boise will make for you when they go to the BCS when they join the conference. Is that how you have become richer, better and so much more relevant?

  • Old Scarecrow
    Aug. 28, 2010 9:00 a.m.

    Definition: Delusional -- See Live Hard's anti-BYU rant. Put it in a textbook. The definition of delusional.
    BYU has not announced or published anything about any other school or any conference to anyone. No matter what it eventually announces, the Ute Fans will declare it a travesty, whether the Y stays in the MWC or goes anywhere else, it will be denounced as a mistake, as humiliating, as underhanded, as backstabbing, as money-grubbing. The Y-haters can't lose, as their reality is whatever they want it to be. Delusional. Let's play some football.

  • rogerdodger
    Aug. 28, 2010 8:59 a.m.

    How is it that BYU fans keep saying that they are so much more dominant than Utah and TCU. Seriously BYU fans. How are you enjoying that money from Utah's 2 BCS games and from TCU's BCS game. It's the same money that Boise will make for you when they go to the BCS when they join the conference. Is that how you have become richer, better and so much more relevant?

  • Granny
    Aug. 28, 2010 8:54 a.m.

    "BYU brass needs to be reminded that the Pac 10 took Utah and not them because Utah was the most valuable school in the league..."

    NOT SO. In sports, BYU and Utah are/were both valuable IN THE MTN. Utah HAD it's terrific BCS and Final Four games and BYU HAS a more consistent overall Top 25 football record and better attendance and revenue. BOTH are valuable in many sports.

    BOTH schools (as well as USU) have stellar research programs.

    Utah was not invited because of academics. See the Sep'10 US News best college rankings. BYU ranked 75th in Best National Universities. Five of Pac10 schools are deservedly near the top. The U and the other current PAC10, not listed. The U is listed alphabetically for universities where “B” students do well.

    Utah may have been invited in order to destroy the MTN and prevent the MTN from moving closer to an AQ conference, something the "big boys" couldn't let happen. BYU and Utah are more qualified and valuable than many BCS conference schools. If BYU is not invited to a BCS conference, it is because of bigotry and religious intolerance, nothing else.

  • Observation-ist
    Aug. 28, 2010 8:05 a.m.

    @M98 ... Congrats to Utah for being chosen by the PAC10. That's terrific for Utah. However, your ignorance regarding BYU is stunning. You must be new to the state or the country.

    The 'powers that be' for BYU aren't going to change the core reasons why the PAC 10 passed on inviting BYU. It's not football or sports prowess that made the difference. It was a secular vs religious preference and Utah is a fine, secular, successful institution. Congratulations go to UofU leadership. You provide a terrific secular education. It's your goal and your doing well.

    BYU is a faith-based institution. It pays attention to religious as well as secular things. It's been successful and wants to increase it's success. Congratulations go to BYU leaders.

    As for all the 'haters' that bash BYU for it's list of priorities (football being 5th), I recently saw an interview with Bobby Bowden (any college football fan knows who he is). Bobby, in discussing his tenure at Florida State (a state institution) listed his priorities as 1) Faith, 2) Family, 3) Education, 4) FOOTBALL. Imagine that. A football coach listing football after faith, family and education. Shocking

  • wayne
    Aug. 28, 2010 7:59 a.m.


    you are soo right.


    If BYU can increase the TV money by playing 3 or 4 national televised games each year on ESPN which they would get to keep to themselves. that would be more money than a BCS appearance brings within three years. if BYU can get the 3-4 National games each year they would get more exposure than any BCS Bowl every 4-5 years can bring. Then who is making more money and getting more exposure. besides the BCS is not out of the question if BYU goes independent.

    The real damage and difference between BYU going independent in football. is the MWC Basketball which has just started to show the kind of conference it can be. there is no silver lining to going independent for BYU's non football sports. the only situation that maybe only a small step down would be for BYU to Join the WCC.

    The real value of Utah's acceptance into the PAC 12 is not football it is the money and competition from the other than Football sports. BYU would be taking a step down in conference if not a drastic step down in conference(WAC).

  • Disco Vega
    Aug. 28, 2010 7:57 a.m.

    Everyone is talking about all the hate toward byu...how soon we forget it was Hall who threw out all the hate, hate, hate...live in reality people. BYu being left out of the PAC 10, etc.. has nothing to do with Prop 8 or religion...what planet are you people on? It has everything to do with a quality program, school performance, research facilities, athletic performance...BYU needs to pony-up, get in a few bowl games, do the right things and they too will be judged by their character and desire to excell...nothing is handed out on a silver plater...you must earn your way to the top. - That is reality people!

  • BleedCougarBlue
    Aug. 28, 2010 7:37 a.m.

    Another poster named "Howard S" said: "11:24 p.m. Aug. 27, 2010 - However this plays out for BYU it won't be close to the positive outcome that the PAC 10 is for Utah."

    So, Howard, care to tell us how you know this?

    "BYU is not the school they think they are. They've never beaten anybody. (Never mind that we've beaten you 3 out of the last 4 years.) BYU's never won any big games. Blah, blah, blah...."

    Yeah, got it, Howard. You hate BYU...

  • Chad S
    Aug. 28, 2010 7:30 a.m.

    This article is spot on. In the 1990s Sports Illustrated explored the issue of why BYU is "hated" on its cover. Of course SDSU hates BYU. They can't win against the Cougars (consistently). Utah fans have developed a superiority complex lately that may dilute their hatred for BYU eventually.

    What do BYU fans care if Wyoming of SDSU hate BYU? Don't think they'll play an independent BYU? Think again football fans. Scheduling game dates may become complicated, but there will be no end of teams willing to play BYU on ESPN in Provo.

  • BleedCougarBlue
    Aug. 28, 2010 7:29 a.m.

    Ya know, I've read a TON of articles about BYU's possible independence over the last 2 weeks and the more hateful comments I read about BYU the more inclined I am to say "_________! (insert the angry comment of your choice Let's do it!"

    BYU has always done things differently.

    An honor code consisting of no premarital sexual relations at all, a dress code which doesn't allow probably 50% of womens' clothes found on the racks in your typical store, not a drop of alcohol or coffee on campus or sold at games, football players who host religiously-based meetings the night before football games, a philosophy the head football coach wholeheartedly subscribes to in which football is not even in the top 3 priorities of life and on and on and on.

    BYU IS different.

    The way today's world is largely going, different is good.

    Let's do it.

  • yarrlydarb
    Aug. 28, 2010 6:53 a.m.

    The detractors will continue to hate, no matter what is the final outcome. But they'll still come and watch the game when BYU plays in their stadium, and they'll also watch when BYU plays their team on ESPN. They will always want to see the cougars lose. But with the increased revenue BYU will gain as an independent with the alliance they have with ESPN, they'll also have a recruitment advantage.

    So many posts continue to want to make it a matter of who has the best team and who doesn't. It's still just like LaVell told PJ several years ago; More money, buys a better team (paraphrased, not quoted).

    Utah leaves the MWC and everyone applauds; BYU tries to better it's situation, detractors jeer. Fresno State and Nevada flat out lie, nobody seems to care.

    It's time BYU stopped subsidizing a league where only two or three ever have even have the slightest hope of garnering a BCS bowl!

  • sls
    Aug. 28, 2010 6:09 a.m.

    The anti-BYU sentiment that has been manifested in MWC cities is an additional reason to leave the conference. In the old WAC, BYU was hated as well. Now they want us back. The MWC, without Utah, is no longer a good place for BYU, but the depleted WAC isn't a good alternative either for all other BYU sports. I was really excited when the WCC expressed interest. It would be new ground and new cities (except for San Diego).

  • Bugoff
    Aug. 28, 2010 5:54 a.m.

    @Conference of Champions and M98.

    The PAC took CO because it was a gambit to get the TX schools to bite. Once that failed they needed another school.

    They choose UT mostly because it would kill the MTN's attempt to crash the BCS. Utah leaving the MTN insured that it could not get an auto berth without special consideration.

    Utah not BYU damaged the MTN. I do not blame UT for bolting. It was in their best interest.

    Do not pretend they took you for any other reason than it helped the BCS. They took CO first for the same reason and no other reason.

    BYU started looking seriously at options. As the MTN no longer served them. The MTN raided the WAC (was going to happen anyway) because they had to.

    That caused BYU to look at other options more seriously.

    Fortunately it is a free country where each team and conference can look out for its own interests on its own merits.

    BYU is simply doing what it should, just like ESPN, Comcast, Utah, BSU,the MTN, WAC, FSU, NV and USU.

    Every entity tries to get what it needs. It is a free market.

  • east of utah
    Aug. 28, 2010 5:37 a.m.

    ...careful there RaininTime...comparing dislike of BYU and their sports program to the Holocaust is taking this discussion way to far.

  • wwookie
    Aug. 28, 2010 4:44 a.m.

    "They stepped in a dirty pond of liars, deceivers and alleged back-stabbers and swam a few laps"

    Very classy Dick. Did you take a long hard look at that comment before inserting it in your flower of an article?

    Werent you just complaining about the name calling? I love dick. He just epitomizes the arrogant byu fan where everyone else is demonized for ... well, for not being byu, and behavioral rules just dont apply to dicks chosen people.

    Im pleading for BYU football to go independent. It will be a wonderful decision and make the sports world respect BYU. BYU will become rich and powerful beyond its most wildest wet dreams ... only that will come after BYU football is moved down to the FCS division cuz no one really wants to play BYU. Of course the excuse dick will swallow is that the FCS is a better division because they have a playoff game. BYU might even make it to the playoffs in that divsion (but I doubt it)

  • SoCal28
    Aug. 28, 2010 2:54 a.m.

    Just to clarify and be fair...

    the PAC10 coach comments referred to in my remarks were NOT from a head coach.

  • ConferenceofChampions
    Aug. 28, 2010 2:34 a.m.

    Yes, byu might have exposure, but Utah has the right kind of exposure. BCS exposure.

  • RaininTime
    Aug. 28, 2010 2:17 a.m.

    @Johney Utah.
    Are you kidding me? Being "tolerant" of completely misguided and outright false accusations is at the heart of the issue at hand. While others have completely disparged BYU, they have in turn remained ...... quite tolerant and almost un-abated by the obvious criticism from within the conference, which quite frankly, they generate the most revenues to fund.

    The anti-BYU comments are 99.9 % aimed at the religion. The jews were persecuted in death as the Mormons are now persecuted in word. The Black-American was persecuted in beatings, in low societal rights, and in word.....and no one was crying, "they complaints are intolerant."

    Your comment, "why have comments if you don't tolerate dissent," is cowardly at best.

    My football team preaches a religious code as its top priority, making no apologies along the way, and you claim that those who agree with this avenue are intolerant.

    The LDS Church and BYU will change very little, if at all. The intolerance for BYU and its religious code will most likely only increase among certain population groups, not decrease as it did over a LONG period of time for the Jewish and Black people.

  • shirley
    Aug. 28, 2010 1:52 a.m.

    If programs in the MWC were to inlarge their stadiums to come somewhere close to BYU, they would probally not cry as much but to set back with 12,ooo attendance and suck money from BYUs success each year, show how much they want[not like] BYU to stay in the MWC.

  • Utah Valley Guy
    Aug. 28, 2010 1:19 a.m.

    Great column, Dick - one of your best ever.

    Wasn't BYU "The Most Hated Team in America" in the '80s, per Sports Illustrated? Nice to see that nothing has changed, including the fact that probably even more people than hate us respect BYU and what it stands for, too.

    I kinda like the fact that BYU and the church are so controversial - hated badly by some, and loved by others - it makes it really easy to recognize which people to respect and which to simply avoid and/or ignore. Life is easier when you know who hates you just for being who you are. :-)

  • Johney Utah
    Aug. 28, 2010 1:05 a.m.

    Why have comments if you don't tolerate dissent?

  • cougsrock
    Aug. 28, 2010 1:03 a.m.

    Great article Dick. There is little room at the top. Howard A pig with lipstick is still a pig. Goodluck at the bottom of the PAC sty.

  • NevadaCoug
    Aug. 28, 2010 1:01 a.m.

    re:M98 | 11:23 p.m. Aug. 27, 2010

    I won't argue that Utah is not a valuable school, but to say that BYU isn't as valuable is ludicrous. The PAC-10 took Colorado over BYU, a program where they have no money sports across the board are in shambles. Why would they choose Colorado over BYU? Because BYU is a religious school. No other reason. And that's fine.

    And I have a hard time believing that BYU is not a program of interest for any BCS conference. The reason why they aren't in one already comes down to geography, for most. The PAC-10 is the best geographical fit, but the religious aspect eliminates BYU from consideration. The Big-12 is the next best fit, but Provo is still pretty isolated from the rest of that conference.

    But you keep telling yourself that BYU isn't a valuable program. But the thousands of BYU fans that help fill stadiums for Cougar road games and a national audience proves otherwise.

    No, they aren't Notre Dame by any means. But they still have a national fan base.

  • SoCal28
    Aug. 28, 2010 12:44 a.m.

    @M98 @1123pm

    You could not be more wrong. Utah was not taken because it was the most valuable in the conference. It was the most "politically correct" decision. I have personally heard one of the Pac10 coaches when asked about BYU not being invited over Utah was "in his opinion" due to reasons OTHER than anything to do with their program (like religion, prop 8, etc.)

    Utah has an excellent program and was deserving of the invite but don't say that Utah was the most "valuable" in the conference because it simply is not true.

    If ESPN could have a contract with any current MWC school to broadcast their games, which team do you think they would consider the most VALUABLE??

    Harmon has written some excellent articles about the "independent" situation. It will be very interesting to see how this all plays out.

  • Bugoff
    Aug. 28, 2010 12:42 a.m.

    Mainly BYU is catching flak from MTN homers. The rest of the country is either pro BYU or does not care. It is really very small potatoes to them.

    This will blow over quickly and any damage is minimal compared to the long run good that will come of it.

    Besides if BYU leaves the MTN that voids the TV contract with Comcast. There is a clause that negates the contract if both Utah and BYU leave.

    What a gift to the rest of the MTN. They will be free to negotiate a real TV deal based on their own merits. They will no longer be stuck with BYU or Comcast. Some of them will schedule BYU just to make money.

    Part of the hatred comes from getting beat most of the time.

    I would really like to see BYU schedule most of its games with teams out of the Intermountain area. That does the most good for BYU and makes for much better ESPN games.

    International coverage is an incentive to schedule BYU.

  • Johney Utah
    Aug. 28, 2010 12:37 a.m.

    Brother Harmon, indeed. What you write is well presented.

    But it is the very mixture of sports with piety which you endeavor here that so many find, not objectionable but absurd, really.

    I remember sitting in my sixth grade classroom as a student in Orem the week before what would become the miracle bowl and one of my fellow students saying half joking, "We have nothing to fear. We will win. The Lord is with us!"

    Its become part of our culture.

    Would the folks at SMU have tried a joke like that?

    Are the Cougars really the modern, "Knights of God?"

    Football is a war metaphor. But does it deserve the trappings and divine rite claimed of the armies of centuries past?

    It's the fact that BYU is acting so blatantly out of jealously and pride(the deadly kind). Your rivals cannot help but wail in the face of this hypocrisy.

    However, I think BYU could call the bluff of Fresno and Nevada and follow through with the "project" as previously compiled. In that scenario, the $5million becomes truly enforceable. In fact, the two would simply return to the WAC. But is WAC-dependent independence worth it?

  • MacNasty
    Aug. 28, 2010 12:34 a.m.


    BYU has always been a ligtening rod. People tune in either with hopes of watching BYU win or with rancor to watch BYU lose. There are not many in the middle ground.

    Its kind of like the Dallas Cowboys a few years back (and I am not likening BYU's football acumen or skill to that of the Dallas Cowboys; its too bad one must preempt stupidity before it undoubtedly would occur in the following posts). People watched the Dallas Cowboys because they were either loved or hated. The networks knew this and their resultant ratings were stupendous.

    BYU and its fans must know that the occasional lightening strikes bring a lot of heat and sometimes deafening thunder. The raucous din of the BYU detractors over the last week or so is proof enough of this fact.

  • badlandscougar
    Aug. 28, 2010 12:21 a.m.

    mr harmon, good article and i think it might be too late to go back to the mwc? utah state could go independent as well? wow. still waiting...

  • fresnogirl
    Aug. 28, 2010 12:18 a.m.

    How was BYU being "sneaky" when in a 2008 interview Karl Benson of the WAC was asked if the WAC would take BYU's other sport should they decide to go Independent. That was 2 years ago. Or when Tom Holmoe said earlier this summer that BYU was exploring that option? Or when the news was leaked, not from Provo or even Utah, but from Colorado?! If this was a secret, it was the worst kept secret in college football.

  • MacNasty
    Aug. 28, 2010 12:04 a.m.

    The truth hurts Dick.

    Jennifer Floyd Engel is absolutely clueless. Her ignorance is stunning. TCU is a great football team; I mean wonderful. But look at the Fort Worth papers. Sport writers are begging the fans to come and see the games; to fill empty seats. A team like TCU deserves better fan support, and, better sports writers.

    Bob Hammond obviously did not understand Holmoe when Holmoe said in July that BYU was exploring all options. If he actually thinks the MWC had no idea of BYU's options, Hammond might be interested in purchasing Madagascar; I hear there's a guy willing to let it go for a song.

    I lived in San Diego for years. SDSU fans dislike BYU, period. Doesn't matter, they have and always will. That's fine, I won't lose sleep.

    When there are no reasonable arguements or logical rebuttals, people sling mud and call names.

    Your aforementioned collegues need to understand the concepts of due diligence and fiduciary responsibility. That is what BYU did and is doing.

    No doubt, these sports writers did no thorough research and investigation into the matter. They have a lot in common with congress; clueless and arrogant.

  • BEW lover
    Aug. 27, 2010 11:55 p.m.

    It almost feels like going back to the MWC at this point would be a huge disappointment, not to mention the fuel it would give all the I-told-you-so critics out there. And if that were to happen, for years to come every school in the Mountain West would be gunning for those "arrogant" Cougars every time they played. Without wanting to, BYU has become a benchmark for everyone else who wants to prove that they're as good or better than the Cougars.

    So my vote is to get out. You know you're going to eventually, so just do it now and face it like a champ. It's like any investment: you can't have big-time rewards without taking big-time risks.

  • Alpine Blue
    Aug. 27, 2010 11:41 p.m.

    No doubt Howard S./HH/Chris B. It is guys like you that we are speaking about-the haters and mockers.

    Predict that our continued sucess will only fuel your hate and envy.

  • Gazpacho
    Aug. 27, 2010 11:41 p.m.

    In the end, it will not matter what BYU's decision is. Those who hate BYU, whatever the reason, will continue to do so. This situation will just become another bullet in their gun of vitriol. As it stands, Mr. Harmon makes an unpopular, politically incorrect, but very true point. BYU holds assets that others in their conference do not (Utah was closing the gap in recent years, but they’re gone too). This will always be a source of tension within the league and its’ fans. Ironically, the anger being expressed by those around the MWC is only evidence of that which they wish, and pretend in their articles, was not true. They need BYU, and they hate BYU for it. They need the exposure, the money, the recognition and the history that BYU brings to their world and now that they might lose it, vitriol is all they have left.

    This is not arrogance, nor delusion. This is reality. Hard to hear, almost impossible to admit, but simply reality

  • Captain L
    Aug. 27, 2010 11:38 p.m.

    Dick, BYU has taken a hit from the negative, critical, haters of BYU and the church. To me BYU hasn't taken anymore of a hit than the church does for claiming to have the truth. BYU hasn't done anything wrong, they have only taken a hit by those who hated them in the first place. Those who truely look at the facts, know that everything BYU has done has been above board and ethical. Wanting to improve their circumstances and doing the necessary communications & planning to see if it is feasible and beneficial is only smart and prudent. There was nothing wrong with what BYU has done.
    It really bothers me to have the BYU haters falsely accuse and demean BYU and the only justifiable reason is their hatred of BYU.

  • Skippy
    Aug. 27, 2010 11:28 p.m.

    I just wish that someone would make an announcement soon. I am tired of all the speculation from both BYU fans and UTAH fans.

  • Howard S.
    Aug. 27, 2010 11:24 p.m.

    However this plays out for BYU it won't be close to the positive outcome that the PAC 10 is for Utah.

  • Oklahoma Cougar
    Aug. 27, 2010 11:24 p.m.

    Just as there have been those detractors mentioned there have also been some allies-some of them unexpected-that have come to BYU's defense. Earlier this week Al Eshbach and Jim Tramel (not always BYU advocates) spent nearly 10 minutes on their "Sports Animal" syndicated radio show espousing BYU's efforts and chances of going independent. They were very complimentary and supportive of BYU's efforts to seek a better deal with ESPN.

  • M98
    Aug. 27, 2010 11:23 p.m.

    BCS dollars mean more than any television contract and the Cougars have yet to prove they can get there. Utah and Boise State have been there twice by the way. BYU brass needs to be reminded that the Pac 10 took Utah and not them because Utah was the most valuable school in the league -- not BYU..sad but true. Everyone needs to accept this. There are some valid reasons why no current BCS conference wants BYU and it would be a far better plan if BYU brass would simply try and fix those problems rather than creating new ones by going independent.

  • Cougar Claws
    Aug. 27, 2010 11:20 p.m.

    Wow, people hate BYU? That's impossible! I thought everyone loved us.

    Nothing to see here folks. The haters will always hate. I think it's funny how it is perfectly okay that Utah left the MWC but it's a major crime that BYU is trying to leave.

    That Fort Worth lady is a crock. You know very well that TCU would be gone the second they got a Big-12 invitation. (By the way, BYU still leads the all time series with TCU). So I think that BYU has done a little more than accomplish nothing. They also make more money than Utah and TCU.

    Oh well. The only reason the rest of the MWC is bitter is because they know that the conference would go bankrupt if BYU left. That's not arrogance it's j BYU should do what is smart for BYU. That is what any other intelligent school would do. What if BYU called all the MWC schools together and proposed to leave? Obviously they would be against it. There's no behind the back dealing going on, it is just common sense that the MWC would have been opposed to BYU leaving.

  • Calabasas_Coug
    Aug. 27, 2010 11:16 p.m.

    Great article Dick. Thank you!

  • Alpine Blue
    Aug. 27, 2010 11:16 p.m.

    Thanks Dick. Excellent summation of BYU's current dilemma. BYU has always been a target of critics and haters-with a lot of ire being targeted at it's sponsoring organization. You can be certain that BYU's continued athletic success will only further inflame those same critics. There will always be haters. We hear them everyday on these comment boards.

    Like you there are a lot of Cougar fans on pins and needles awaiting some sort of News Conference to be announced on Monday or Tuesday.

    I am totally confident that whatever course is chosen, BYU will continue it's long-standing tradition of athletic success and will find even greater glory in future years on the fields and hardwood courts.

    Also feel that the time may soon come that the Board of Trustees will choose to discontinue intercollegiate athletics at BYU-when it no longer serves or fosters the best interests of the church.

    Hopefully later than sooner for this life-long Cougar fan.

  • satch
    Aug. 27, 2010 11:04 p.m.

    Amen. I know its time to show patience. I really hope BYU can knock a home run with this. They are a deserving program.

    No other program in the MWC can match BYU with support, history, nor fan base. No, its not even close with Utah. I can't believe how much hate people have for BYU. When ever I hear the "arrogance" card played, it's usually someone who is being arrogant.

  • thejdog123
    Aug. 27, 2010 11:03 p.m.

    Good article, but ignorant utah fans are going to put a lot of dumb pointless comments about this one....All i can say to the ute fans is, we will see what happens in November....