College football: Being an independent presents many challenges

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  • FreddyP
    Aug. 19, 2010 5:41 p.m.

    Alta High has a basketball and track program. Maybe the Cougs could get a home and home with them.

  • Confused
    Aug. 19, 2010 5:08 p.m.

    So It is 5:00 pm and no announcement from the Church Office building........

    could this be another unconfirmed "Scoop" Story?

  • Dig Dug
    Aug. 19, 2010 2:55 p.m.

    Again, hatred? Where have I said I hated the Y or their football team? Do I like to see them do well? Yes. Do I want them to get worked over when they play the U? Absolutely! I haven't done anything to turn routing for the U into hatred for the Y.

    Religion != football; I don't have to cheer for the Y to be a member of the church. There are much more important things in life and at stake than personal pride over sports teams.

    I don't know all of the history but you have obviously been personally offended one way or the other. I apologize for that; but sill I do not see how reflecting the hatred you've been shown will do anything but aggravate an already ridiculous situation.

    Again, I can list dozens of prominent church members (past and present) who are huge fans and even boosters of the U. To say that being a U fan is against the church is ridiculous. Come on, you're not really that stubborn are you? Isn't there anyway for moderate fans to get along? Is there no olive branch here?

  • TheSpiker
    Aug. 19, 2010 1:57 p.m.

    Dig Dug

    “I doubt I'll need to garb a Y sweatshirt to make it through the pearly gates.”

    Agreed … but how will you account for why you are standing at the pearly gates with a flaming Y sweatshirt on a stick?

  • Big_Ben
    Aug. 19, 2010 1:42 p.m.

    @ Buzz

    since you are on a "LDS doctrine" trip

    its the whole "cleanse the inner vessel first" thing. Yeah, why dont you go look that one up. Thats why I brought up Max Hall's comments.

    He who is without sin can cast the first stone. Until you are perfect, condemning others makes you look more than ridiculous.

  • Big_Ben
    Aug. 19, 2010 1:40 p.m.


    If you chance to meet a frown
    do not let it stay
    quickly turn it upside down
    and smile that frown away

    no one like a frowny face
    change it for a smile
    make the world a better place
    by smiling all the while

  • Buzz
    Aug. 19, 2010 1:17 p.m.


    I do not condone what Max did. Never said that.

    Why do Ute fans insist on putting words in my mouth?

  • Buzz
    Aug. 19, 2010 1:15 p.m.

    Who says I am in favor a self righteous attitude? It is bad but Ute fans are very sensitive and take every sentence from a BYU player or fan out of context and they do it often. Prime example- Bronco's Quest for Perfection theme is constantly mocked by Ute fans due to the Y's unsuccessful undefeated season and the U's accomplishment that year.

    I can go on and on.

    Ute fans like to bring up the non-importance of sports so that they can justify their hatred for Y football.

    Let's put the fact that we are talking about a sports team when we discuss the Utes fans hatred for Y football.

    Now, how can they justify hating ANYTHING that comes from the church?

    I will never understand that and it is the cause of my comments.

  • Tarheel Ute
    Aug. 19, 2010 1:10 p.m.

    The BCS Mafiosos are probably shaking their collective heads wishing they had co-opted a MWC team much sooner. With Utah's defection, the 2nd, and 3rd order effects are that BYU will become an independent, the MWC football has lost two of four football powers and is diminished, and the WAC for the most part has no football status.

    BSU and TCU will now dominate the MWC, but top to bottom the MWC will not have the depth and strength of conference required to attain BCS status.

    By accepting one team Utah, the BCS may very well have eliminated two big headaches; the MWC and WAC.

    I suspect Utah and then BYU saw the writing on the wall, and took the best alternative to staying with the MWC as perennial by-standers to BCS and national status. Utah and BYU may have more financially sound programs, but I do not think that translates to consistently sound and winning programs. The jury is out in this regard.

    The BCS mafia are the big winners. The MWC path to the BCS is longer, and so will be the argument for a College Football Tournament.

  • Beantownbrian
    Aug. 19, 2010 1:06 p.m.

    Every day, I get to work and pass the time at lunch by perusing college football news and columns throughout the country.
    I've done this for the past seven years. For what its worth, this article/column was the all-round best I've yet to read. Thank you.

  • Dig Dug
    Aug. 19, 2010 12:49 p.m.

    "And I don't care if there are self-righteous Y fans out there. It does not give an LDS person any excuse to hate the Y."

    No, not to hate, but certainly a point on which could be improved. I don't want a self-righteous image of the church being out there, how does that help anyone? Again, lets all work on lessening the hate and personal attacks, it is counter productive and doesn't help either side.

    The sort of language, finger pointing, hate, and down right ugly comments that all boil down to football (it's only a game) are unbecoming to us all. Let's keep football in perspective and not make it a matter of salvation. I doubt I'll need to garb a Y sweatshirt to make it through the pearly gates.

  • Swimmer
    Aug. 19, 2010 11:55 a.m.

    This will kill recruiting. Players play for conference championships and bowl games. The national championship is the ultimate goal but you are deceiving yourself if you think BYU has a chance for that. Going independent will kill BYU football. No player is going to come to BYU when they cannot promise him a chance for a conference championship and an automatic bowl bid.

    Those who tout this as being a good idea are not thinking it through. So they play a 12 game schedule and at the end of the season--then what. Nothing. Yippee. Once in a blue moon they qualify for a BCS bowl--maybe.

  • Big_Ben
    Aug. 19, 2010 11:36 a.m.

    @ Buzz

    So its ok for the quarterback of BYU to publicly hate his opponent, and yet, its not ok for anyone to hate BYU if they are LDS?

  • Independent
    Aug. 19, 2010 11:23 a.m.

    Do it BYU. Take the plunge. You may struggle at first, but it will work out in the long run.

  • Buzz
    Aug. 19, 2010 10:51 a.m.

    Don't put words in my mouth Mesquite. I never said you have to become a Y fan. I am talking about hating the Y.

    How can any LDS person hate a church entity? Explain that to me?

    And I don't care if there are self-righteous Y fans out there. It does not give an LDS person any excuse to hate the Y.

    What is so blind about LDS members supporting church based things? Do you know what it is to be LDS? When you become LDS you leave neutral ground and I see nothing wrong with "not hating" anything that comes from it.

  • AFCoug
    Aug. 19, 2010 10:29 a.m.

    With the latest news on the WAC if BYU goes independent they would be better off joining the PCC and playing Gonzaga in B-Ball. I would love to have them in the Marriott Center every year! That move would hurt BYU's only other major sport a lot less than joining a lowly WAC. Still go independent or force the MWC to allow BYU to make it's own football TV deals with ESPN or thier own TV network.

  • Johnny Triumph
    Aug. 19, 2010 10:27 a.m.

    A few years as independent and a Big12 invite will appear...they'll want to expand again to get a conf football championship and BYU will be available. This is a no-brainer for BYU.

    Aug. 19, 2010 10:17 a.m.

    Are you serious? So what you are saying is that it is wrong for LDS members to cheer against they Y and that it is their duty to blindly support anything church-based? Incredible. So should I have blindly followed the church in the days that it treated women and African Americans as second class citizens? Ute fans don't generally dislike the Y because of its affiliation with the LDS faith, Ute fans generally dislike the Y because we love our team and zoobs have proven to be amongst the most ignorant and self-righteous fan bases this world has yet known.

  • Big_Ben
    Aug. 19, 2010 10:07 a.m.

    @ Buzz

    I am guessing that was an attempt at humor? Sarcasm?

  • Otis Spurlock
    Aug. 19, 2010 10:04 a.m.

    Is this for real? If it is, I seriously don’t know what to say. Utah is invited to the PAC 10 along with Colorado to become the PAC 12. BYU isn’t invited by the PAC 12 or the Big XII so it decides to actually descend the ladder a little bit and rejoin the WAC, a conference it left in 1999 because it had become watered-down even by BYU standards with no-talent programs.

  • Levin
    Aug. 19, 2010 10:04 a.m.

    The football team is an ambassador for the Church, like the Young Ambassadors, the BYU Philharmonic, the BYU Singers, or Folk Dancers, etc. While those groups are traveling to different countries to introduce people to BYU and the Church, the sports teams have been mostly introducing San Diego, Las Vegas, Albuquerque, Colorado Springs, Laramie, and Fort Collins to the Church. Umm, mission accomplished. (Dallas/Fort Worth, maybe not. I say keep playing TCU.)

    Dick Harmon hit it on the head with his column suggesting they are doing this to have the freedom to play teams in areas that have less familiarity with the Church. If that's not the real reason, I think it would at least be a good reason.

  • Bugoff
    Aug. 19, 2010 9:53 a.m.

    The WAC is not ruined. They will adapt and pick up teams that fit. Playing BYU on TV is a better situation for many schools in the West.

    In football Fresno only had about 33000 in home attendance and NV 17000. They can be replaced. They do not fill the hole left by BYU (64000) and Utah (45000).

    BSU left a gaping hole by going to the MTN. That opened up the ESPN revenue for a Western power like BYU.

    BYU is essentially trading places with BSU but BYU will be free to schedule all over the country instead of being locked into regional games NOBODY cares about outside of Utah and surrounding states.

    Is it any harder to schedule BCS games as an independent than as a member of the MTN or WAC? Neither conference helped one iota on scheduling.

    BYU needs to expand the stadium to improve their home attendance into the top 10-20. That means an extra 15-25000 seats.

    That will make scheduling BCS teams easier.

    It is far better for BYU to get a home and home against a medium SEC/ACC/BigEast/Big12/Big10 team than the regional MTN.

  • Buzz
    Aug. 19, 2010 9:42 a.m.

    i joined the LDS church in California when I was 20. I moved to Utah and one the first things that astonished me was hearing so called LDS football fans ripping on BYU. Who's side are you on people? You sit there and rip on one of your church's entities? You have all this hatred for it because of jealousy and anger towards holier than thou Y fans. Get a grip and think about you are ripping on when you kick and mock the school.

    I see comments from people like Go Big Blue and I cringe. This guy says he is a member in "good standing" and then is proud to root against his church's school? Are sports really that important to you dude? Someone has their priorities out of whack. Are all LDS non Y fans so blinded by their hatred of the Y football program that they are willing to mock the church as well.

    My observation of this makes me wonder how valiant to the cause they really are.

  • scenic view
    Aug. 19, 2010 9:22 a.m.

    "Don't confuse LDS membership with being a y fan. There are many of us in "good standing" that will always root for who ever is playing the Y."

    That's true, but the vast majority of LDS members living outside the state of Utah, throughout the country and in many places around the world, are BYU fans.

  • Big_Ben
    Aug. 19, 2010 9:01 a.m.

    Its times like these that make me really glad I am a ute fan. My team is guaranteed a spot at the big table and now I can sit back and enjoy watching the little guys battle it out for the scraps left over.

  • Archie
    Aug. 19, 2010 8:14 a.m.


    "I think the most frustrating thing about the MWC has been the restrictions and governance of broadcasting rights that keeps a great program from the national/international exposure it has earned, and richly deserves."

    What you are saying is that BYU won't capitulate to Sunday play, doesn't want "governed" TV deals, and wants more money.

    BYU has always dictated the rules to the conference yet BYU fans don't understand why other conferences want nothing to do with BYU? The only option BYU has is to go independent. Superute is correct, the WAC is now ruined but hey, as long as BYU fans are happy, that's the only important thing.

    btw...I don't buy into the notion that sports are a beacon to a positive image, either. Sports have a way of bringing out the worst in people...not love and unity.

  • TheSpiker
    Aug. 19, 2010 8:13 a.m.


    Let's see ...

    Utah does what is in its best interest and joins the PAC right after we sign Boise (almost guaranteeing the MWC BSC qualifying status) and it was a great move and not selfish at all.

    BYU decides to go independent and it is all about money and we "just ruined the WAC to get it".

    Does anyone else sniff the hypocrisy (or hatred)?

    (By the way, interesting logic in your analysis that by our negotiating to join the WAC we ruined it. I guess we must have had an evil plan to stick it to the WAC.)

  • tron527
    Aug. 19, 2010 7:43 a.m.

    If anyone can I think BYU can be independent in football but will only do it as long as they have a solid conference for the other sports and it looks like the WAC is not an option anymore. In football I think BYU could get 2 and some years 3 or even 4 traditional powerhouse teams scheduled and then a couple of mid-level BCS teams. The rest of the schedule would be MWC/WAC/ConfUSA teams and then there would be at least one dog a year. The schedule would probably be front heavy because most good teams won't want to go out of conference play late in the year, it is very likely the final game could be someone like North Texas most years. In many respects going independent would be putting BYU very much in the same position as Boise State has been in the past few years. If BYU can win its earlier challenging games then they will have the inside track for a BCS spot but would have to hope that the top MWC team loses.

  • hamaca
    Aug. 19, 2010 7:30 a.m.

    It seems to me that exposure and money go hand in hand. You can't get exposure without the budget for the things necessary to build the visibility of the program. At the same time you need the exposure to increase revenue from ticket sales, t.v. ads, and deals with networks.

    In short, you can't get exposure without money, and you can't get money without exposure.

    So, the suggestion that it's about money and not about exposure sounds a bit disingenuous.

  • Laser
    Aug. 19, 2010 7:28 a.m.

    superute: chill buddy, of course it's about money, why do you think your precious utes thumbed their noses at the MWC. You're really trying to take down BYU because they are trying to establish a financial base that the MWC doesn't?

    By the way tv coverage you referred too was a decision by all conference members not just BYU. So get off your high horse and stop preaching especially when your team left the MWC for...THE SAME REASONS!!!

  • Go Big Blue!!!
    Aug. 19, 2010 7:24 a.m.

    y is no Notre Dame. ND has a rich football history and tradition. Even when they are soso ND receives tremendous national attention.

    Don't confuse LDS membership with being a y fan. There are many of us in "good standing" that will always root for who ever is playing the y.

    Looks like the y is grasping at straws as they are snubed by the Big XII and PAC 12.

  • DRay
    Aug. 19, 2010 5:54 a.m.

    "Bugoff" comments are very good, I agree with points made...this article is also a good read, examination of challenges of going independent...I think the most frustrating thing about the MWC has been the restrictions and governance of broadcasting rights that keeps a great program from the national/international exposure it has earned, and richly deserves.

  • superute
    Aug. 19, 2010 1:23 a.m.

    Y fans who are trying to convince themselves that this is all about exposure and not about money are up in the night.

    And these circumstances will prove that. Now that Craig Thompson has pretty much ruined BYU's plan to go to the WAC, we'll see if it's all about exposure.

    If it were all about exposure, then why did they agree to the deal with the MTN? Weren't they better off with having KSL and ESPN years ago? Why are they now talking about this after Utah left for the PAC-10?

    Sorry it doesn't sound as righteous, but this is all about money. All about money. And that's why moving to become independent is likely not going to be in BYU's best interest - playing against teams in gymnasiums will eventually make things too difficult.

    BYU is just following the almight buck and they just ruined the WAC and to get it.

  • Bugoff
    Aug. 19, 2010 12:28 a.m.

    BYU's primary function is to gain positive exposure for the Church. BYU is part of the Church image. The Church is currently buying millions of $ worth of ads to promote the image of the Church.

    Taking BYU independent allows the Church to get paid for playing games which has the same affect as paying for the ads.

    It is in the long run best interest of the Church and BYU can pull it off. They have the national/international fan base.

    Having EVERY game televised is a great recruiting tool for all sports. BYU dramatically extends it reach and relevance.

    BSU has had a weak schedule and it has worked to their advantage in recruiting, bowls and national recognition.

    This looks more risky than it is.