Doug Robinson: Utah Utes: Will jump from small pond to big pond go swimmingly for Utes?

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  • regis
    Aug. 2, 2010 11:30 a.m.

    I'm a little perplexed by Robinson's comment that: "Realistically, life in the Pac-12 will mean fewer wins, fewer conference titles and fewer bowl trips."

    I'll concede the first two points. The Pac-12 will be tougher competition, meaning the Utes will probably lose more games and winning championships will be more difficult.

    But as far as bowl games, does Robinson really believe Utah is going to sink to a sub-500 program? And even as the Pac-12's No. 2, 3 or 4 choice, they would go to the Alamo Bowl (payout $3 Million) Sun Bowl ($4.1 M) or Holiday Bowl ($2.35 M) which are all superior to the Las Vegas Bowl ($1 Million payout) which the No. 5 Pac 12 team would be going to.

  • Coug
    Aug. 1, 2010 1:51 p.m.

    This article wasn't half as amusing as the majority of the comments. It seems Doug just tugged on Superman's cape, who didn't appreciate it one bit.

    Personally, I think the Ute's recent brand of football should fare well in the PAC, at least I'm hoping so. They represent the state of Utah now among the BCS echelon. They will have a regular opportunity to wipe some the perceived snubbery, from the faces of BCS proponents, who think that non-AQ teams can't consistently compete with them.

    I hope zealous Ute fans will remember their roots, and will become part of the solution, rather than just another layer of the problem.

  • THEeyepatch
    Aug. 1, 2010 6:52 a.m.

    Haven't posted on here in a while, and I see the stat geeks, the history [recent/past] arguement, and the overall us against them [choose your side] is alive and well even though the season has yet to begin. I for one enjoyed the story, he seemed equally bias on both teams. Utah soon will join the PAC and BYU will soon have a new rival. I certainly hope the rivalry will never go away. And maybe a VEGAS BOWL or two are in the future for UTAH and BYU. That would be great in my opinion, and for the people who say, "Vegas Bowl, BYU plays a middle ranked team in the PAC", step back and realize that BYU are playing the 3-4 best team in a far superior conference.

  • VegasUte
    Aug. 1, 2010 12:52 a.m.

    VegasZoob: give it up dude: Utah is FAR superior in bowl games and in recent history. The last 13 years the zoo has done Nothing of significances (5 top 25 with 2 of those being 25 itself, and 12 being the HIGHEST). If the zoo finishes in the top 5 or even 10, let alone going to or WINNING a BCS bowl, then you can talk and we will have to listen. Until then, stay on the zoo blogs, no one cares what you say here! In business and in sports it is "What have you done for me lately?". Five straight Vegas Bowls (with 3-2 record) just does NOT blow air up ANYONE'S skirt. Move on dude, ybU is yesterday's (as in 1984) news.

    Go Utes! The future is Crimson - get USED to it!

    Stop whYning and crYing on Utah blogs! You just make yourself and zooby nation look worse!

  • charlie24
    July 31, 2010 6:20 p.m.

    Here is an idea for Doug Robinson:

    He is quite an ordinary reporter in a city like Salt Lake City. Actually, it is very hard to notice him.

    Now if he was to go to Nephi or Richfield, maybe he could become one of the better reporters in the city. Think of it as a big fish in a little pond.

    We would welcome that because it would give us a chance to replace him with what could become the first DNews reporter that is really supportive of the home town university.

  • Naval Vet
    July 31, 2010 2:09 p.m.

    VegasCoug [3 of 3]:

    Here's some other interesting comparative stats for you:

    Utah 12-3
    ybU 10-17-1
    Edge: Utah

    Utah 3-1
    ybU 2-13-1
    Edge: Utah

    Utah 9-2
    ybU 8-4
    Edge: Utah

    Utah 7-3
    ybU 10-13-1
    Edge: Push; Utah has a significantly higher winning percentage, but ybU has 3 more wins.

    Utah 5-0
    ybU 0-4
    Edge: Utah

    *POWER CONFERENCE: All teams in currently affiliated in a BCS conference except 2001 Louisville [C-USA]. The SWC was a power conference in 1980, so SMU counts as a power conference school.

  • Naval Vet
    July 31, 2010 2:08 p.m.

    VegasCoug [2 of 3]:

    FACT: The Utes faced only 4 teams who finished in the Final AP polls, but they beat 3. So despite playing 12 fewer ranked opponents, they still beat more than the tdS. That is a decidedly significant edge to Utah. Another edge for the Utes shows that the highest ranked bowl opponent you had was resulted in a 14-pt loss to #7 Tulane. The Utes had a 14-pt win over #6 Alabama.

    I find it interesting that BYU's bowl opponents have been much tougher.

    Perhaps it was just that ybUs bowl opponents had been much tougher...than ybU. Utah CLEARLY had the most challenging bowl opponent in SEC runner-up Alabama.

  • Naval Vet
    July 31, 2010 2:07 p.m.

    VegasCoug [1 of 3]:

    "(I did extensive research on this, looking up every single bowl game that both teams have played)."

    Well it's ABOUT TIME some zoob finally did a little research before spouting off his hyperventilated, frantic and emotional, uneducated sports dogma.

    FACT: 19 of BYU's 28 bowl opponents were ranked, or 68% of their bowl opponents.

    FACT: LOSING to ranked teams is NOT a standard of excellence. Nobody cares where a runner places half-way through the race, nor even 15 feet from the finish line. The only thing anybody cares about is the order of the runners AS THEY CROSS the finish line. With that noted, only 16 of ybUs bowl opponents were ranked in the final AP polls. And OF those 16 teams, the tdS only beat 2.

  • BoiseSuperBlue
    July 31, 2010 1:42 p.m.


    I love talking about the past also. I have fond memories of high school and listening to my grandfather talk about how life was in the 1950's and how cool Elvis Presely was.

    Guess what is much more fun than living in the past? Living in the present. Present score is: Boise 2 BCS Bowls and 2-0 against the cougies on the field.

    Talking about the past won't help you beat us, ever. Maybe living in the past is one of the reasons the cougies can never plan for the future or win a current BCS game?

    Still waiting on your explanation on why the cougies have never made it to a BCS Bowl or why ESPN has declared that we are the best mid-major team in the last 10 years since the uties are no longer technically a mid-major.

    We are the new sheriffs of the MWC and we will dominate the MWC as we have every time we have met on the field 2-0 against BYU.

  • VegasCoug
    July 31, 2010 1:21 p.m.


    "most important academic field to the PAC 10 is medical research and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Utah and Colorado are both ranked in the top 40 nationally in med research"

    I have no doubt of this. Utah's medical program is very impressive. I have no doubt this made them attractive to the Pac 12.

    "but maybe I’m wrong, maybe it’s all about football."

    It definetly wasn't all about football or why else would Colorado have gotten in? They were not good this past decade, being especially bad the last 5 years, and their basketball program has always been AWFUL.

    I have stated many times on this board that Utah's a good fit for the Pac. They've established themselves as a very good football program in recent years, and they're a state school with good research credentials.

    BYU isn't a good fit for the Pac, it's fine. Their athletics are plenty good enough, their fan base more then big enough, but the "uniqueness" of the institutution doesn't work for the left coasters... it is what it is.

  • VegasCoug
    July 31, 2010 1:07 p.m.


    "Nice stats Vegascoug but I don’t think anyone cares what BYU did 20 to 30 years ago"

    * Many of the BYU accomplishments that are factored into the stats above are from much more recent then "20 to 30 years ago". (i.e. 5 of those 17 ranked seasons have come in the last decade). It is far too convenient for Yewts to paint the BYU legacy with a broad stroke of "it was all 20 to 30 years ago".

    "now if you could pull up stats over the last decade that shows BYU football is superior I’d be impressed."

    * I have conceded many times before on this board that Utah has the edge this past decade. BYU's had a lot of success this decade, especially during the Bronco era (i.e. 4 straight top 25 seasons being a big-time accomplishment; the Utes best ranked season streak is 2 seasons, in their entire history) But I will readily admit the Utes have the edge this decade due to the 2 BCS bowl-busting seasons.

    0 BCS bowls is a glaring hole on BYU's resume.

  • hedgehog
    July 31, 2010 1:06 p.m.

    Vegas coug,

    You've spent a lot of time pounding the kewg chest. But what now? The Utes moved up to the BSC the kewgs stay in the "mid-majors".

    Whatever your trying to sell us doesn't matter anymore. All the Doake awards and Heisman finalists are part "mid-major history", not PAC12 history.

    Going forward, Utes are far more intrested in comparing our program against BCS programs.

    Save your stats for BSU. They mean nothing to the Utes

  • byronbca
    July 31, 2010 11:37 a.m.

    Nice stats Vegascoug but I don’t think anyone cares what BYU did 20 to 30 years ago, now if you could pull up stats over the last decade that shows BYU football is superior I’d be impressed.

    I still honestly believe that the main reason why Utah got the nod over BYU was because in addition to having a really good football program, Utah is a much better research school than BYU. The most important academic field to the PAC 10 is medical research and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Utah and Colorado are both ranked in the top 40 nationally in med research. The PAC 12 will easily be the second best medical researching conference behind only the Ivy league. BYU doesn’t have a medical school. I think that means a lot to the Pac whatever but maybe I’m wrong, maybe it’s all about football.

  • VegasCoug
    July 31, 2010 10:34 a.m.

    You can actually sum up the resume comparisons, or traditions, of BYU and Utah quite easily. Just use the categories that ESPN used in their Jan. 23, 2009 all-time prestige rankings article....


    BOWL HISTORY: UTAH (Utes bowl record is very impressive)

    TOP 25 FINISHES (AP poll): BYU (17 to 5)

    10+ WIN SEASONS: BYU (15 to 5)


    HEISMAN: BYU (1 winner, 8 finalists; UTAH = 0 winners, 1 finalist)

    CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIPS: BYU (23 to 5 since 1970)


    NFL 1ST ROUND PICKS (since 1970, cut-off year ESPN used): BYU (7 to 5)*

    * Utah has defintely had a superior track record of NFL draft picks the last few years; BYU likely to add another 1st round pick soon in Matt Reynolds...

    And one more that is interesting...

    HALL OF FAMERS: BYU (6 to 1)**

    **Utah's 1 hall of famer is from the leather helmet era; all 6 of BYU's hall of famers are from the modern era.

  • Archie
    July 31, 2010 10:26 a.m.

    btw...cute graphic Des News. I can't wait to see what the next angle will be as you continue to do your best to make the Utes look insignificant.

    I must say though how impressive it is that the Des News sports writers know football better than the PAC coaches.

  • Archie
    July 31, 2010 10:22 a.m.

    AZJazzFan | 2:12 a.m. July 31, 2010 - Personally, I think the terms "loophole" and "mythical" are most appropriate adjectives to describe the 1984 scenario...

  • VegasCoug
    July 31, 2010 10:06 a.m.

    My exercise above of showing how many ranked teams BYU has played in their bowls, as well as showing that there of lots of other prestigious programs out there with "less then stellar" bowl records, was done to put BYU's bowl record into perspective.

    LET ME MAKE ONE THING CLEAR = As a Cougar fan I concede that Utah has a better bowl history then the Cougars. Their superior win % coupled with the 2 BCS bowl wins make this point indisputable.

  • byronbca
    July 31, 2010 9:36 a.m.

    Re Vegascoug

    One more thing, your math fails to take into account that one of the reasons BYU's bowl game opponents have been ranked at the end of the season is because they keep beating BYU in the last game. The reverse is true for Utah their opponents end up not being ranked because they just lost to the U. There is often a difference between stats and facts as your math points out.

  • byronbca
    July 31, 2010 9:27 a.m.

    Re Vegascoug:

    You bring up that BYU has been losing to better, ranked, opponents in their bowl games, all that tells me is that BYU was overrated going into those games. In 1984 BYU didn’t win one game against a top 25 team. Don’t you have to beat the best in order to be the best? In 2008 Utah beat 3 ranked teams in the regular season, kept TCU out of a BCS bowl game and beat Alabama, the team that spent most of the season ranked #1 in their bowl game.

    Your “national championship”26 years ago might mean more to you than 2 undefeated seasons and 2 BCS bowl wins in the last 6 years, but to the Pac 10 the latter is more impressive.

  • AZJazzFan
    July 31, 2010 2:12 a.m.

    I read all the posts, what about SCOREBOARD! BYU owns the bragging rights for this year, as they beat the Utes. Call it a loophole, controversial, mythical, or whatever you want BYU owns a National Championship, for one year they were selected as the best team in the nation, there was not another worthy team of the title, #2 was UW and they didn't even win their own conference. BYU killed them early in the season the next year. I would take one NC over 2 BCS bowl wins.

  • VegasCoug
    July 31, 2010 1:37 a.m.

    ** I made one error:

    Utah's bowl opponents consisted of 6 ranked teams (Pitt was ranked in 04 going into that game).

    So excuse me, 6 of Utah's 15 bowl opponents were ranked, or 40%.

    Again, BYU... 19 of 28 bowl opponents were ranked... 68%...

  • VegasCoug
    July 31, 2010 1:31 a.m.


    I also find it interesting that Ute's #1 go-to move to marginalize BYU is the bowl records.

    I'm not going to argue that 10-17-1 is not poor. It is, no question about it.

    However, (laying aside for a moment the fact that 68% of BYU's bowl opponents were ranked versus just 33% of Utah's bowl opponents) I would like to point out the following...

    There are many other prestigious programs in college football with poor, sub .500 bowl records. Here's a few examples:

    Texas A&M... 13-18
    Pitt... 11-15
    Oregon... 9-14
    Ohio State... 19-22
    UCLA... 14-15-1
    Florida... 18-19 (they were 14-18 prior to Urb)
    Notre Dame... 14-15 (lost 9 of their last 10)

    Now, I suppose then that if Ute fans got into a discussion with fans of the schools above, you guys would just dismiss them as poor football programs, right?? Or course not, because you don't have a crimson-colored vendetta against these guys! Just the TDS!

    Bowl games do not an entire program's reputation make!

    Just remember... 68% ranked opponents... 33% ranked opponents...

  • VegasCoug
    July 31, 2010 1:16 a.m.


    "FACT: ybU has only been ranked 5 times in the last 13 years, twice at 25, and HIGHEST at 12"

    How about I flip this one around? "Utah has only been ranked 5 times in the last 45 years" LOL.

    Now, as far as bowl records, it's not debatable that Utah has a better win percentage in bowls and has a big bowl advantage with the BCS bowl wins.

    What you might find interesting is the following facts:

    FACT: 19 of BYU's 28 bowl opponents were ranked, or 68% of their bowl opponents.

    FACT: 5 of Utah's 15 bowl opponents were ranked, or just 33% of their bowl opponents.

    So... Utah does have a higher win percentage in their bowl games, but I find it interesting that BYU's bowl opponents have been much tougher. (I did extensive research on this, looking up every single bowl game that both teams have played).

    This is because BYU was regularly going to Bowls long before the bowls were watered down with a thousand bowl games! Utah didn't start making bowls consistently until "the watered-down bowl era" (copper, freedom, emerald, etc)

  • Henry Drummond
    July 30, 2010 8:46 p.m.

    I have to admit being blown away when Doug talked about BYU sneaking through a loophole to win a National Championship. I never thought I would hear that from such a great Cougar booster. He is right though when he says

    "Now the Utes have joined the in-crowd, and that means taking a more legitimate and difficult road to the national championship."

    I think that is the great challenge. When Utah wins it all, nobody can say they didn't earn it.

  • Uteology
    July 30, 2010 8:14 p.m.

    @EndOfAnError-01/20/2013 | 3:28 p.m. July 30, 2010

    That trend won't have anything do with how Utah plays next year.

    The trend that will determines success in 2011 will be: If a great coach can develop NFL talent.

    The last two years:

    Utah 11 players --> #2 & #18 (23-3)
    Oregon 11 players --> #10 & #11
    Washington State 4 players --> 3-22

    The five year trend is similar.

    Unless that is if Utah's recurting gets worse, if not look for team on the field to be competitive.

  • moodyblue1977
    July 30, 2010 8:04 p.m.

    K Whitt says no more PAC talk. Please.

  • VegasUte
    July 30, 2010 5:19 p.m.

    EndOfthe Zoobs-01/20/2013:

    Here are some FACTS for you:

    FACT: Utah has 80% winning rate in bowl games
    FACT: ybU has 35%
    FACT: Utah has more bowl wins than ybU
    FACT: Utah has more bowl wins over ranked opponents
    FACT: Utah has less bowl losses against unranked opponents
    FACT: Utah has two BCS bowl wins and two undefeated seasons since 2004
    FACT: ybU has one NC that NO ONE respects that is DECADES old and one undefeated season 26 years old
    FACT: Utah has had success in the NCAA tourney
    FACT: ybU is the epitome of failure in the NCAA tourney
    FACT: Utah has been ranked as high as 2 and 4 since 2004
    FACT: ybU has only been ranked 5 times in the last 13 years, twice at 25, and HIGHEST at 12 (with there best team ever!)

    FACT: if you are trying to say Utah is not worthy of going to the PAC 12 because of your selected "FACTS", what does that say about the zoo?

    Move on you jealous and bitter zoobs.

    Go Utes! The future is Crimson - GET USED TO IT!

  • DEW Cougars
    July 30, 2010 5:09 p.m.

    utah was the only undefeated team in the country and still only played against the lower tier BCS game against BAMA. FLORIDA won the NC with their one loss game to Ole Miss? Now becoming the pac10 easier road to the national title -not going to happen if they become the only team w/o a loss. Look what happen when utes went undefeated during U Meyer day and three others went undefeated. Both Auburn and utes didn't get the invite. Anyway, have fun getting squashed with the PAC and your utes fans will not show up at RES.

  • wwookie
    July 30, 2010 4:26 p.m.

    Well, the continuity of the rivalry game wasn't brought up, but KSL has a good report on Bronco and how he wants to do away with the rivalry until his school learns how to control things like Max Hall's mouth and how to teach his kids that it's not ok to disrespect someone because you're afraid of them (i.e. by trying to do the haka on their field in front of them)

    Anyways, if the rivalry does go away, it's partly because BYU doesn't want to play Utah as one of their OOC games every year. They would prefer to play a Northern Illinois, Weber State or some other div II school (That's my opinion based on Bronco's attitude during media days).

    Food for thought: Wouldn't it be hilarious if BYU and Utah played each other twice in the same year? Once in the reg season and again in a bowl game? Maybe even a BCS game (If BYU ever makes it that far)??

  • olcoyote
    July 30, 2010 4:19 p.m.

    So, how much BCS/PAC10 money did Arizona and ASU recieve in the last 20 years? Question is, will Utah be happy to stay home and collect the check or will they man up and continue in the Urban Meyer tradition? I think they will have occasional Rose Bowl success, not every year, but I think they will earn their BCS money. I guess that is better than wondering where the money is coming from.

  • VegasUte
    July 30, 2010 3:39 p.m.

    Yes, the U will not always be playing in the Rose Bowl. But the fact remains that it will be in our grasp every single year. We will have to always be progressing to obtain it, BUT it will ALWAYS be there if we are good enough. It's not always the bigger fish that put up the most fight!

    Go Utes! Go Crimson! Cannot wait for September 2!!!

  • johntakarl
    July 30, 2010 3:29 p.m.

    What. what mwc/wac championships are 23 to 7. I did not realize cougs were that much better than us.

  • EndOfAnError-01/20/2013
    July 30, 2010 3:28 p.m.

    FACT: Utah has finished no better than 3rd place in the lowly MWC four of the last five years!

    FACT: Utah had won the MWC exactly 1 time in the last five years!

    How does this translate into the thinking in Yootville that the Yoots will do even better in the PAC?

    Maybe, but the past says there is no guarantee.

  • johntakarl
    July 30, 2010 3:27 p.m.

    What was that? MWC/WAC championships? what? 23 to 7? what wow. Didn't realize BYU was that much better than us...

  • Wally West
    July 30, 2010 3:03 p.m.

    re: Shawnm750 | 8:47 a.m. July 30, 2010

    "Uh, all college sports are about money."


    "but unless you're an Ivy League school, MIT, or Stanford you have to compete in athletics in order to get publicity and funding for your school."

    Stanford has been in PAC for sometime... long before eith UAz or Az St.

    In fact, Stanford's hoops program is quite good & (Ivy League) Princeton basketball has upset a few big names in the annual tourny.

  • TDS Fan
    July 30, 2010 3:01 p.m.

    I'm not as convinced as Bronco that recruiting will not be affected by Utah’s move to the PAC 10. It is VERY concerning to me. I'm guessing over the 10 years, the rivalry will be very slanted towards Utah.

    It's going to be tough to be a TDS fan and watch our action get kicked by Utah year-in and year-out! If the rivalry continues, I truly believe that the rivalry will fade simply due to Utah's potential dominance.

  • TDS Fan
    July 30, 2010 3:00 p.m.

    I'm not as convinced as Bronco that recruiting will not be affected by Utah's move to the PAC 10. It is VERY concerning to me. I'm guessing over the 10 years, the rivalry will be very slanted towards Utah.

    It's going to be tough to be a TDS fan and watch our action get kicked by Utah year-in and year-out! If the rivalry continues, I truly believe that the rivalry will fade over time simply due to Utah's potential dominance.

  • ProudRedUtahAlum
    July 30, 2010 2:48 p.m.

    Why is the Cal fish bigger than the Utah fish? Didn't we beat them last season?

  • Clear Thinker
    July 30, 2010 2:46 p.m.

    Hedgehog do actually ever produce anything other than useless drivel? Please grow up. You are embarassing to all Ute fans out there.

    Crickets, crickets, crickets

    I believe the writer intended to bring up some risks of the move. I don't see the same risks as presented with the Arizona schools, but I do see some legitimate risks. I also believe a tremendous amount has been reported about the benefits. Take it all together and form your own opinions.

    How will the team fit in without a natural rival? Colorado is a terrible fit.

    How do the other programs outside of football get competitive or does it even matter? Currently Utah is effectively non-existent outside of football.

    Is there a risk of the newness wearing off?

    Will the California / coastal media ever cover Utah?

    How much boost in recruiting can really be expected?

    I don't have the answer to these questions. Obviously tme will tell, but there are legitimate risks.

  • Uteology
    July 30, 2010 2:43 p.m.

    @Payson40|12:24 p.m. July 30, 2010

    Why can't BYU fans like you do any "research" before posting.

    According to Scouts BYU dominates mid-majors when it comes to recruiting but on the field Utah, Boise, and TCU are the top dogs. When it comes to developing NFL talent under the current coaches Utah is on top.

    Will Utah get Texas players? No. They don't have to, what they must do is continue developing NFL talent on par with Oregon; which they are now. If they do that they'll play like the top tier in the PAC-12, if not then they won't.

    National sports writers are already saying Utah will be competitive next year. So let's wait and see.

    Meanwhile, Go Utes!!!

  • ProudRedUtahAlum
    July 30, 2010 2:42 p.m.

    Yeh, cute funny little picture. But why are the USC, UCLA, Oregon State, and Cal fish bigger than Utah, considering the Utes beat them on their last meetings? And the Utes smaller than Wazzu? Please! Wouldn't Utah's success in the Pac-12 be a good thing for BYU and the MWC?

  • ProudRedUtahAlum
    July 30, 2010 2:38 p.m.

    Yeh, cute funny little picture. But why are the USC, UCLA, Oregon State, and Cal fish bigger than Utah, considering the Utes beat them on their last meetings? And the Utes smaller than Wazzu? Please! Wouldn't Utah's success in the Pac-12 be a good thing for BYU and the MWC? I am trying to remember if I have ever seen an article in the DN or Trib that banged on BYU as badly as this article does on the Utes. Tough criticism is one thing, but hammering just to make the sad dejected rivals feel better about themselves is pathetic. Is this what the DN represents? Is this what the LDS church represents? This article had shades of the inflammatory ultra-conservative venom that the LDS church decided to remove from its radio stations. Maybe the church should extend that reach.

  • justanotherutahn
    July 30, 2010 2:38 p.m.

    I'm a BYU Coug - that said, Utah is likely to become a better program attracting better talent as a result of being in the PAC 12. Given a choice, wouldn't you rather play in a BCS program rather than the MWC? They have a great coach and I believe will see great success.

  • ProudRedUtahAlum
    July 30, 2010 2:28 p.m.

    I'm wondering why the USC, UCLA, Oregon State, and Cal fish are bigger than Utah, even though the Utes defeated them on their last meeting. And Wazzu bigger??? Please! This article is nothing more than a 'band aid' for ailing BYU fans, giving something to feel good about, that being Utah's potential failure in the Pac-12. Even if BYU knew they wouldn't be able to compete in the Pac-12 as well as the Utes, they would have gone off to the Pac-12 in a heartbeat. I also agree with other posters who point out that Wazzu and the Arizons are not applying for membership to the WAC or MWC to improve their win percentage. I can understand the DN having lots of pro-BYU articles to pump up the fan base, but having one that has no purpose other than insulting the Utes? I don't think I have ever seen an article like this on the DN or the Trib dissing BYU for anything like this. By the way, I notice that there is not a BYU fish in the bowl. Oh! That's right! Have fun in the Vegas bowl!!

  • I Will Be Till I Die
    July 30, 2010 2:08 p.m.

    Sorry all for the duplicate post - it said my first comment was rejected so I tried again using slightly different language.

  • Uteology
    July 30, 2010 1:52 p.m.


    Dominte programs don't print "Perfection" t-shirts in the preseason so they can FedEx them to their rival to wear in January.

    Mr. Robinson the nation does not care how many mid-major championships we win. They stood up and took noticed when we slapped the big boys in January.

    Would you rather watch your team on the MTN or ESPN/ABC?

    I was a fan through the 80s I think I can handle losing. What I can't stand is by being the only undefeated team in the nation yet no chance to play for the title.

  • billybubba
    July 30, 2010 1:49 p.m.

    I think this was a great and insightful well written article

  • billybubba
    July 30, 2010 1:46 p.m.


  • patriot
    July 30, 2010 1:29 p.m.

    the big pond is always better to swim in. The U will have 8 or 9 games that are BIG time opponents instead of maybe 3. Great thing for the U and great thing for the state of Utah.

  • gub-ment-cheeze
    July 30, 2010 1:18 p.m.

    Just give it time, the high-flying Utes will soon return to earth as the reincarnated Mississippi Mudhounds of the Pac12. Complete with keystone light and overalls.

    They'll compete heavily with WSU for the worst team in football, and for the most intoxicated fans. A title WSU won't relinquish easily.

    @hedgehog - why do you end your posts with "crickets" all the time? Are you doing some stealth marketing for your current employer?

  • I Will Be Till I Die
    July 30, 2010 1:10 p.m.

    @Regis, no I don't think you missed the point. After all, anybody who thinks a 26-year old national championship is still relevant would not hesitate to make comparisons between our 2011 conference jump to the move UofA and ASU made 30-odd years ago.

  • I Will Be Till I Die
    July 30, 2010 1:08 p.m.

    Regis, I don't think you missed the point at all. Just as BYU thinks 1984 is still relevant, they also think comparing Utah to Arizona's and ASU's jump to the PAC-10 30-odd years ago is also somehow relevant.

  • utefan4life
    July 30, 2010 1:07 p.m.

    Robinson, come on the all time records against these teams don't mean a thing. It's the 21st century now and since then we have had quite a bit of success. Utah's programs keep improving and will continue to improve through recruiting and better facilities from the move, thus leaving them to do just fine if not very well in their new conference. TDS has stayed put by not improving nor going anywhere to show that they are a nationally dominant team. Utah has proven themselves on the big stage numerous times now. What more proof do you need Doug.

  • jdaliix
    July 30, 2010 1:05 p.m.

    Right, but that's not what this article is about, so though your point is a good one, it's not relevant to this article.

  • jdaliix
    July 30, 2010 1:04 p.m.

    Right, but that's not what this article is about, so though your point is a good one, it's off-topic.

  • Anonymous Infinity
    July 30, 2010 1:00 p.m.

    It's always about trying to win championships. However, Utah will over time receive more prestige and YES, MORE MONEY, from TV and boosters than they would have going forward had they not joined the now PAC-12. The Mountain West Conference is strickly minor league when it comes to money and getting to big money bowls/and/or sharing in the proceeds from being in a BIG LEAGUE CONFERENCE. I'm excited to see if they can measure up to getting their act together in the athletic department to gear up for what could happen down the line.

  • eagle
    July 30, 2010 12:44 p.m.

    Most bloggers are concentrating on football and men's basketball and seeing where the Utes might fit in. As for the totality of its other athletic programs, the U. will need to step it up big time or risk being perennial doormats of this league. The PAC-10 takes pride in having total athletic programs and has won more NCAA championships than any other conference by far.

  • eagle
    July 30, 2010 12:42 p.m.

    Most people are focusing on the football and men's basketball aspects of being in the new PAC-12. However, on the total athletic scale of all of Utah's other programs, entering the PAC-12 will be a disaste except for maybe Gymnastics and Women's Basketball. The PAC-12 brings it and takes pride in having institutions with quality athletic programs across the board. The PAC-12 has won the most NCAA championships of any conference hands down. I'm not sure the U or CU is up to this challenge.

  • jdaliix
    July 30, 2010 12:38 p.m.

    What we KNOW is that no non-BCS school will EVER play for a championship. What we can NEVER bank on is that the MWC will ever be a BCS conference.

    So, at its simplest, there are two definite upsides and no downsides whatsoever: 1) six or seven times as much money, and 2) at least a shot at a NC. The money increases one's ANNUAL odds at getting to a NC level.

    So it's like risk assessment based on this: we can shine in a mediocre world and get nationally recognized as a solid club, OR we can roll the dice and legitimately work towards a NC (what more could anybody want?), and if we fail the worst that has happened is FAR more money.

    Personally speaking, Whit has It. He's got The Stuff. Given the opportunity, he'll make good. Whether that translates to a NC remains to be seen, but the club will be a legit top 12 pretty much annually, and starting sooner than naysayers thing.

  • mountainlocal
    July 30, 2010 12:26 p.m.

    Utah has claimed one conference championship in the last five years, and only three outright in the last 50-some-odd years. Granted, those three are in the last seven years.

    Conference championships are special because they are hard to come by, even in the Mountain West. Next year, the week-in-week-out competition steps up dramatically. Right now there is one easy game on the schedule, Washington State, not half of the league.

    I'm a Utah grad, went to the Sugar Bowl and Fiesta Bowl, and will savor those memories, because there is no guarantee they will be repeating again anytime soon. The Utes do have a lot of starters returning in 2011 for what will be a very interesting season for sure.

  • Payson40
    July 30, 2010 12:24 p.m.

    I'm a die hard BYU fan, and have hated the Utes all my life.

    And I admit it I was a little jelous of the Utes making it to the Pac 10 and leaving us in the dust.

    I really want the STATE of Utah to be recognized as an elite state, and if that means Utah having a good season in the PAC 12. Then sure go Utes

    But when I read that you will get the best recruits just because your leaving the MWC doesnt mean anything. You cant tell me that your going to out recruit the Texas Longhorns on a huge recruit from Texas, or you cant expect to snag the best guy from Washington do you? Those top recruits that your talking about are the guys here in Utah that the Cougars and the Utes have been getting since the beginning of our programs.

    But the first of the PAC 12 I predict that in the Las Vegas bowl will be Boise State vs. Utah and Boise State winning big!

    But congrats to the Utes (wish it could have been the Cougars) but what can you do. Hopefully a championsip is in the future.

  • Dig Dug
    July 30, 2010 12:11 p.m.

    I enjoy looking at the PAC schedule. If Utah were to play any of the existing 10 teams this year, which ones would give them a hard time...

    Washington... no
    Washington St... please
    Oregon... would be a good game like unto last year
    Oregon St... good game with the edge to the Utes this year.

    Standford.... no
    UCLA..... no
    USC.... well, probably not now
    Arizona... no
    Arizona St.... no

    So why all of a sudden if we're in the PAC10 are all of these teams going to cream us? Sure, a PAC10 championship isn't easy to get, no PAC team wins that every year hands down; that is what makes it fun.

    But Utah has as good of a chance as anyone of doing it, even with their current teams and talent level. Utah's talent pool should only increase with PAC10 exposure, which would help their chances even more.

    So, Dnews/bitter zoobs, lets stop the silly perennial PAC bottom feeder noise. I hope the cougs do well in the MWC, and I hope the Utes do well in the PAC. It's always a battle for the top (see MWC last 10 years).

  • hedgehog
    July 30, 2010 12:09 p.m.


    You bring up a great point that kewgs simply won’t respond to. Again, Kewgs do you think that the “miserable” WSU, AZ and Azst fans wish their school would move down to a mid-major so that they could compete better? Love to hear your thoughts on that.

    Crickets crickets crickets

  • Hellooo
    July 30, 2010 12:07 p.m.

    The Hailstorm loved your take on things. I wonder how the U's recruiting in Texas will be affect with this as they will no longer be playing there or seen on TV in those markets. Unless of course they a national game in the PAC10, which does not allocate TV exposure like the mountain. Anyway, thanks for the upbeat take. As for the headline of the article: would that not be a jump from a Mid-Major Pond to Big Pond? And, not quite so big of leap after all noting last years results in the bowls of the PAC-10 vs the MWC.

  • T-Mac
    July 30, 2010 12:07 p.m.

    While Robinson is a Y homer, there is some truth to what he says. Utah has averaged 10 wins over the past 7 seasons in the MWC, but that level of success wont continue in the PAC. While the MWC top 3 teams are tough, top to bottom the PAC-12 is a tougher conference.

  • Dig Dug
    July 30, 2010 11:57 a.m.

    Rise and shout... the cougars are out.

  • regis
    July 30, 2010 11:53 a.m.

    And so, by the logic of this article, I guess ASU and Arizona, having been only so-so since joining the PAC 10, they now realize what a bad decision they made and will soon be petitioning the MWC for membership so they will have an easier path to better bowls and national championships.

    Or did I misunderstand the point?

  • hedgehog
    July 30, 2010 11:47 a.m.


    Really? I’ve yet to see a critical article on Holmoe. If you would please point out such an article I’ll eat my words. Face it Kewgs, your athletic director has fallen asleep at the wheel and his lack of strategic foresight will haunt BYU for decades.

    Only now is Holmow running around in circles looking for a quick fix that in all honesty needed years to develop. One only need to look at Hill and the way he layout his vision - decades of planning.

    The reality is that Holmoe always felt that Utah was his meal ticket to the BCS. No one would take Utah without BYU … right??? Let this be a lesson to all you youngsters out there — create your own way in the world, get yourself noticed and make friends with the people who can help you out.

    July 30, 2010 11:46 a.m.

    I think one of the biggest positives about the move to the PAC-10 is that Utah will no longer have to be perfect to get to a BCS game. Last year Oregon had two losses going into the Rose Bowl. Perfection is fantastic, as we Utah fans can attest, but it's nice to know that a 10-2 or 11-1 season can now do the trick. Shoot, in a down year for the conference it could be 9-3 and a BCS game! That is very satisfying.

  • Big_Ben
    July 30, 2010 11:43 a.m.

    @ Arynen

    I dont think hedgehog and cougar76 truly understand journalism. Thanks for your post. You hit the nail on the head. How boring would it be if everyone was "unbiased"? We would all be clones walking around and there would be no point to almost anything. We all have biases. There are those who take it to an extreme (harmon, sean hannity, david locke etc.), but it makes the world a better place.

  • EndOfAnError-01/20/2013
    July 30, 2010 11:25 a.m.

    Kyle has only won 1 MWC championship in five years. What does that say about how he will do in the PAC? Someone? Anyone? Does a 20% success rate justify the lofty expectations that Ute fans now harbor?

  • Liberal Ted
    July 30, 2010 11:24 a.m.

    This author sounds bitter towards Utah going to the Pac-12.

    If the team down south feels better about being a big fish in a small pond. Then they have achieved their goals.

    But why stay stagnate?

    Why not progress and increase the competition and the difficulty?

    In theory, why not keep your $10/hour job. Or do you try to improve yourself and move up to something that offers more benefits and wages?

    If your happy with MWC championship and a Vegas Bowl then don't compete. If you want to move upward and expand the number of teams you can play to truly test yourself, then you have got to move on.

  • Arynen
    July 30, 2010 11:23 a.m.

    @hedgehog 6:48

    "Hey Dnews. How about writing a fair and unbiased assessment on how Holmoe. In a free thinking environment, this guy would have been run out on a rail."

    You mean how about writing an article that agrees with your opinion? This writer is as critical of BYU as he is about the Utes. You just need unbiased eyes to be able to see it.

  • Utes 31 Tide 17
    July 30, 2010 11:19 a.m.

    I hate to seem like I'm drinking the BCS Kool-Aid, but there's something a lot more legitimate about Utah slugging it out in the Pac-10 and earning a Rose Bowl bid than what Hawaii did.

    You're only as good as your competition. Isn't it interesting that Utah and the TDS have been so evenly matched recently? Not a coincidence.

  • GoUtah
    July 30, 2010 11:17 a.m.

    It's a lot of fun to read articles like these. The Desnews has to be excited, too. They no longer have to write only about lowly "mid-major," MWC team, but can start to write about USC, UCLA, etc!

    It's great fun to start hearing about these programs and how Utah is going to fit in just fine.

    Desnews, along with other media outlets will only aid in the one-sided recruiting domination that Utah will lay on the tds. The tds can continue to get their "guys that only want to go to the tds." However, note that those may not be the "best" guys; chances are, they're not.

    My point: I truly hope that the rivalry continues due to Utah's ability now, and in the future, to out recruit the tds. Over the next decade, you're going to see the rivalry SO slanted towards Utah, Holmoe may have to do what he said in "doing what's best for the tds." What may be best is to "chicken out" of future games with the might UTES because they'll simply not be able to compete!

  • VegasCoug
    July 30, 2010 11:13 a.m.

    There is no doubt that Utah getting into the Pac 12 is a great thing for Utah. This is not debatable.

    What is debatable is how good they will be, long term, in the Pac 12. Only time will tell...

    Despite my obvious Cougar allegiance, I will give credit where credit is due. Utah has become a very good football program, and if they are very competitive in the Pac 12 it wouldn't surprise me.

    But it is very compelling to look at the relative lack of success from the former WAC elite Arizona State and Arizona. They went from a WAC elite tendency to a middle of the Pac tendency.

    I have a hard time believing that the Utes have more resources to win and be competitive LONG TERM then Arizona or Arizona State.

    We shall see... it will be very interesting...

  • Bottom Line
    July 30, 2010 11:13 a.m.

    Utah has a better chance of winning the PAC 12 next year than they would the MWC with a terrific BSU team joining with a senior super stud quarterback.

  • Big_Ben
    July 30, 2010 11:12 a.m.


    you dont really read monson much do you?

  • Boise Bill
    July 30, 2010 10:54 a.m.

    Here is what you are missing- the biggest reason the mid majors are throwing a fit is because the playing field isn't fair. Utah, BYU, TCU and Boise State all want a shot. These 4 programs are all very good and have a legitimate shot at being the best team in the country. Getting into an elite conference gives them the opportunity to prove themselves. Each teams argument basically says, "Hey, we are one of the best teams in the country!" Moving up gives them an opportunity to show that they are right. There is no room for discussion here. They should move up and play against the best- that's what they say they are. Chosing to stay in a weaker conference just so they can get into the BCS through a loophole does nothing to prove they were right. The premise of your article is ridiculous.

  • CarlUte
    July 30, 2010 10:53 a.m.

    Utah and BYU > Arizona and Arizona State. Utah's and BYU's programs have better alumni, better coaches, better facilities, and better resources. Not even comparable.

  • cougar76
    July 30, 2010 10:39 a.m.

    @ Old Gregg | 9:24 a.m. July 30, 2010
    I'm with you all the way. BYU has the DN and the U has Monson and the Trib. Seems fair to me. If you are so insecure, don't venture into hostile territory.

  • TheHailstorm
    July 30, 2010 10:38 a.m.

    I feel that the coaching staff of Utah has been overlooked. Young ,yet mature Brian Johnson is a real plus for the Utes as he is from Texas , young enough to almost be a recruits peer , MVP of the Sugar Bowl , Player of the Year in the MWC, personable with great charisma.
    Morgan Scally has been rated as the #1 recruitng coordinor of all the mid majors.
    Both Offensive and Defensive coordinators are coming off of their first year.
    Utah will have it's losses and disappointments, in what I give the next 3 years, but as the reloading cycle pushes forward in the next three years of pain and growth , only a better team will surface.
    It looks like Coach Kyle will could likely become the Joe Paterno of Utah and stay for a long career with the Utes, .
    As for the rivalry, it should be continued if only for the reason that both BYU and Utah are consistently ranked high in the polls allowing for a jump in RPI and SOS ratings come seasons end.
    Life is good as USU, Snow college, Weber, Utah, and BYU are consistently being placed in the top 25 in their division.

  • BamaUte
    July 30, 2010 10:38 a.m.

    Chardusa - don't let unbiased facts get in the way of your judgment.

    NCAA Tournament Basketball wins:
    Utah 35
    UNLV 33
    BYU 12

    NCAA Football Bowl Wins
    Utah 12
    TCU 11
    BYU 10
    AFA 9

    Yes when playing the best, one can clearly deduct that BYU is CLEARLY dominant. See you in the Rose Bowl!

  • dww722
    July 30, 2010 10:37 a.m.

    Congrats to the Utes for earning the invite to the PAC10. Turning down this incredible opportunity was probobly never an option. Would anyone in their professional careers turn down a major promotion, a huge pay raise, the opportunity to test themselves against more competitive peers all while thumbing their noses from the corner office at the guy they beat out for the job? Of course not. You take the guarentee and run and work out the details later. If you don't think BYU would have jumped at a PAC10 invite you gotta have rocks in your head.

    That being said, you really have to wonder if, in the long run, not getting that PAC invite is a blessing in disguise for BYU. IF the MWC is able to secure AQ status in a couple of years and IF BYU pulls a "Texas" out of their hat and expands their TV network, takes a bigger chunk of the revenue along with TCU and Boise and continues to have an easier path to conference championships and BCS bowls, BYU puts Utah in it's rearview mirror. But that's alof of IF's.

  • Rock Of The Marne
    July 30, 2010 10:34 a.m.

    Really Chardusa, when is the last time your Cougs went undefeated and played in real bowl game (not the LV Bowl)? The answer is never, as even in 1984 the best you could do was barely beat a 6-5 Michigan Team in the mid level Holiday Bowl but since there was no BCS in place you became the luckiest team ever as you got the NC without beating any teams that finished ranked (now that's an accomplishment). Maybe t Utah twice in the last six year proving, via convincing BCS/first tier bowl game wins, that they can compete when it counts is far more impressive to the rest of the nation (including the BCS conferences) than BYUs frequent good but never great seasons; though don’t let those facts get in the way of your hate for those teams who earned it.

  • byronbca
    July 30, 2010 10:21 a.m.

    Re chard:

    You’re right chard it’s not that Utah has a better football program than BYU it’s that Utah is a better school than BYU. Not only does Utah have 2 BCS bowl game victories but we have one of the best medical schools in the country to go along with it. How many Nobel Prize winners does BYU have?

    While BYU’s focus is on church the U’s focus is on research. That’s why The U is in the Pac 12 and the Y is going nowhere.

  • HARM
    July 30, 2010 10:11 a.m.

    Mr. Robinson you are such a negative-nellie! One is almost led to believe you are a BYU homer. Anyone in your family ever coach a BYU? Thanks for stirring the pot (again).

  • 10CC
    July 30, 2010 10:10 a.m.

    Re: chardusa

    "BYU has been athletically superior to you year in and year out."

    Only a delusional Coug could utter those words without thinking.

    Remember your "Quest for Perfection" year? Actually, it was Utah who went through that year unscathed and got a marquee win on the national stage in January.

    Granted, it didn't happen 26 years ago - it was only two years ago. Maybe your short term memory is shot.

  • Big R
    July 30, 2010 10:01 a.m.

    Every article gets twisted into a BYU vs Utah argument on the comments. Petty petty petty. When you are about to write something negative about the "other" team, stop and do something good for someone else. You'll be happier!

  • chardusa
    July 30, 2010 9:52 a.m.

    Utah fans need to wake up. Think about why you were invited to the Pac 10....IT'S NOT BECAUSE YOU WERE THE BEST TEAM IN THE MWC. BYU has been athletically superior to you year in and year out. You have NOT dominated in any sport (except gymnastics)against any of the other schools in our conference. Think about it!

  • Big_Ben
    July 30, 2010 9:46 a.m.

    Here's the thing. Utah is the original BCS Busters. Not "one of" the originals. The original. We are one of a handful of teams who have won TWO BCS games. Besides Boise State, every other mid-major program aspires to be like us, and to do what we have done. We have established ourselves as the "Cream of the crop". If the utes fail, it really hurts the MWC's already slim chances of earning AQ status.

  • umanami
    July 30, 2010 9:40 a.m.

    Dougy, sour grapes. This article is shallow. There are other factors that you don't even want to consider or look into that would tell you Utah will enter the PAC strong. Sure, Utah was a big fish in a little pond, but KW took the talent he could get and developed them into great players. With the $$'s and upgraded facilities and the opportunity to play in the Rose Bowl, if not a National Championship, the bigger, faster, and stronger recruits will come. Imagine the additional development under KW's system how great this team can become. It is mistake to compare Utah to Az or Az State. Utah has a great system that develops players and makes them better. Experts-not you Dougy, are saying Utah will come into the PAC as a contender for the league championship immediately. I cannot wait until you lose your readership because of your love fest with the zoobs. The fan base is changing and will continue to change with Utah's continued success. Good luck to you Mr. Dougy with your narrow minded love fest with tds. I just read the last article I want to from you.

  • byronbca
    July 30, 2010 9:24 a.m.

    This article conveniently leaves out some very important facts. Utah’s home games just got much more exciting; there are years in the MWC that the Utes only host 1 decent team all year long. If you’re a season ticket holder, which schedule would you prefer?

    Another is that the all games in the MWC are televised only on the Mountain channel with bad picture and even worse announcers. From a fan’s perspective I’d rather the Utes be in the WAC than the MWC. The best part about the Utes going to the Pac 12 is that they will no longer be in the MWC.

    And as an alum, my resume just got a little better. One reason that the Utes got this invitation over BSU is that Utah is a really good school academically too. The Utes are also a better school academically than BYU in the areas that the PAC 12 cares about, ie research and science.

  • Old Gregg
    July 30, 2010 9:24 a.m.

    @Howard, Hedgehog, and others that are going off about the DN being bias and not reporting positive things about the Utes, why do you keep reading their articles and commenting on them? If you dislike the DN so much, then just stop reading it! It's a simple fix.

  • EndOfAnError-01/20/2013
    July 30, 2010 8:49 a.m.

    How many times have the Utes won the MWC championship with Kyle as the coach? Isn't he 1 out of 5? Hummmmmm. . . But I'm sure he will do better in the PAC.

  • Shawnm750
    July 30, 2010 8:47 a.m.

    @LV Aggie

    Uh, all college sports are about money. Sure, they like to tout how sports help develop individuals, but unless you're an Ivy League school, MIT, or Stanford you have to compete in athletics in order to get publicity and funding for your school.

    I don't expect the Utes to win every game in 2011, or even within their first few seasons. But I think they've got what it takes to be a serious contender in the PAC. Especially since USC's going through a big shake up, and other teams in the conference have proved to be pretty average when pitted against teams in other conferences, like the MWC. So, while they may not win every game, I think the Utes will enter the conference well poised to be a dominate team.

  • Howard S.
    July 30, 2010 8:27 a.m.

    Robinson's sour grapes opinion is nothing more than shameless pandering to the Cougar base of his readership.

    The real reality is that their isn't a Cougar anywhere (including Robinson) who wouldn't trade places with the Utes in the PAC 12.

  • Naval Vet
    July 30, 2010 8:25 a.m.

    "Instead of facing six or seven difficult opponents each season, they face about three. If you're working the system – a system that is vastly flawed, as we all know – that's a proven path to travel...That's how Utah cracked the BCS – twice." -- Doug Robinson

    That's not how Utah [or TCU] cracked the BCS. That's how BSU and Hawai'i got there. The Utes blew out every opponent in 2004, and beat 3 ranked teams [one in the Top-10] in the regular season. THAT's how WE got there. Remember, in both those years, BSU went undefeated in the regular season too. But they played a weak SOS, so they didn't get in. There's no argument that can be made that could suggest we backed into it like Hawai'i. We earned it.

    The Utes are not trying to "beat the system". We're trying to prevent "the system" from beating us. Like the time we were lost a shot at the 2008 Nat'l Championship, despite going undefeated, in favor of 2 other 1-loss teams.

    We WANT better competition. I think you may have had us confused with the tdS.

  • Howard S.
    July 30, 2010 8:20 a.m.

    So Robinson believes that the Utes PRE-1994 performance against PAC10 teams is more indicative of their expected future performance than their POST-1994 performance?

    A fine example of Cougar logic...

  • Naval Vet
    July 30, 2010 8:08 a.m.

    "It might actually be easier to be one of the country's BCS busters, a team trying to get inside from the outside. They have a better chance of running the table with an easier schedule." -- Doug Robinson

    Only mid-majors have to run the table in order to play in a BCS game. Va. Tech went to the Orange Bowl with 4 losses; 3 of which were to unranked teams. Since we're no longer a mid-major like ybU, that point is moot.

  • LV Aggie
    July 30, 2010 7:45 a.m.

    18 million is 18 million, I'm pretty sure it's still about the money and less about championships bowl gmaes.

  • sancho
    July 30, 2010 7:45 a.m.

    I believe that Utah will not go to BCS games as frequently now. That seems to be a fair prediction. But think of the upgrade in the quality of my season tickets! Big fish in the small pond was fun for while, but if you aren't willing to take on the big fish, what's the point? This is proving time, and small fish everywhere should hope Utah has the success that will validate their claims.

  • Wiley Old School
    July 30, 2010 7:35 a.m.

    "That's how Utah cracked the BCS – twice. That's how TCU, Hawaii and Boise State earned BCS bowl invitations. That's how BYU won the national championship in 1984. They all sneaked into the national championship picture through a loophole left open for those teams that don't belong to the elite conferences."

    While one can't argue that Utah's 2008 schedule included MWC bottom-feeders, it also included defeats over four end-of-season ranked teams... more than many elite BCS schools played. So lumping the 2008 Utah season in with the BSU, Hawaii, and BYU '84 seasons is a stretch.

    Even Utah's 2004 season edges out any of the BSU (1 or 2 quality wins), Hawaii (1 maybe 2 quality wins), or BYU '84 (any quality wins?) seasons.

  • AFCoug
    July 30, 2010 7:21 a.m.

    I'm just curious how they got all the other gold fish to look at the Ute gold fish?

    This last year of the Utes will be interesting in the MWC. I suspect they'll get what is usually reserved for BYU, everybody's best shot. Good luck to them in future years. I think they'll do ok in the PAC 12 but believe BYU has a better shot at making a BCS bowl game before them after this year.

    I also believe the Big XII is simply waiting to expand. If BYU puts together two impressive years one of two things should happen. MWC gets automatic bid or 2-3 schools get invites to other major conferances. Big XII could still fall apart allowing MWC to invite left overs and get automatic bid. This whole shifting of the landscapes in college football is still far from over and in the end BYU, TCU, and BSU should all end up in a BCS conferance.

  • trueblueBYU
    July 30, 2010 7:11 a.m.

    This could resolve the dilemma about continuing the rivalry. BYU would likely still be playing Utah most of the time since they get the 4th or 5th team from the PAC-10. Happy days are here again.

  • Naval Vet
    July 30, 2010 7:08 a.m.

    "Think about it: The Utes are a BCS school. As already mentioned, that likely means fewer wins and conference titles, which decreases the odds of an invitation to a BCS bowl, not to mention the national championship."

    Think about it. The Utes were denied a shot at the National Championship despite going UNDEFEATED in 2004 and 2008. In 2004, the Utes blew out every opponent. In 2008, the Utes' SOS was ranked higher than Alabama's and USC's. It's difficult enough to merit a very competitive SOS when you have New Mexico, Wyoming, and San Diego St. on your schedule every year, but in the year that we DID, it STILL WASN'T ENOUGH! In fact, the year that we did, we were the only undefeated team in the country. And it STILL WASN'T ENOUGH!

    Our odds of obtaining a bid to the Nat'l Championship didn't suddenly decrease. Quite the contrary. Our odds just improved.

  • Naval Vet
    July 30, 2010 7:01 a.m.

    "In reality, Pac-10 membership will actually make it more difficult for Utah to get to a BCS bowl, not easier." -- D. Robinson

    In reality, in 2008, the MWC ended up ranked as the 4th best conference in the country...ahead of #5 ACC and #6 Big [L]East. That means #2 Utah's road to the BCS was more difficult than #15 Va. Tech's or #17 Cincinnati's. And, had ybU not blown it against Ariz. in Vegas, the MWC would have taken that #3 slot over the Pac-10.

    Va. Tech played their way into the Orange Bowl despite losing to #21 Florida St, and unranked E. Carolina, Boston College, and Miami.

    Cincinnati played their way into the Orange Bowl despite getting BLOWN OUT by #5 Oklahoma and unranked UConn.

    #3 USC got a mulligan vs. #18 Oregon St. -- who WE had to beat -- on their way to the Rose Bowl. Had the Beavers upset the Utes in SLC that year, we would have wound up in Vegas playing an unranked 7-5 Arizona team rather than proving ourselves against a Top-5 12-1 Alabama team, one game removed from the NC.

    More difficult? Nope.

  • hedgehog
    July 30, 2010 6:48 a.m.

    Have we heard even one positive report from the Dnews about the Utes? Of course not; they’re mandated (by their masters) to sully the PAC12 at ever stop and rewrite history to make BYU less irrelevant.

    Hey Dnews. How about writing a fair and unbiased assessment on how Holmoe. In a free thinking environment, this guy would have been run out on a rail.

  • What's up?
    July 30, 2010 6:16 a.m.

    Utah will do all right, likely as well or better than the AZ and other non Cal schools. The one thing for sure "It means millions more in revenue" BUT also many millions more in expenses..

  • wwookie
    July 30, 2010 6:01 a.m.

    Two points that are hilarious here.

    1) The guy opining here is assuming that the PAC 10 schedule is tougher than a MWC schedule. That's a pretty big assumption and shows that this guy hasn't really followed college football close enough the last decade to realize the parity in the top 9 or 10 conferences. The PAC 10 conference will be tougher only for the same reason Utah fans are excited to move into the PAC 10, more money to attract and recruit players. It also means Utah can schedule 4 pansy teams on their schedule and still get respect from the BCS fools. That would equate to an easier schedule. Don't be surprised to see Utah in the Rose bowl atleast once in the next 5 years.

    2) this point was already mentioned, but Utah can now have one loss and still get invited into the BCS championship game or even 3 or 4 losses and still get into a BCS game assuming they are ranked high enough at season's end. A much easier road, contrary to what this writer thinks.

    Logic is embarrased by this story's assumptions and opinion.

  • DiggerWillow
    July 30, 2010 5:08 a.m.

    So should we take a step down to the WAC so that we can go undefeated and play in a bowl game every year?

    And I love that Robinson mentions the Sun Bowl and Holiday Bowl as mid-tier bowls. Both bowls are bigger than the Vegas Bowl in payout and recognition. For example, the Sun Bowl pays $1.9 million, Holiday Bowl pays $2.1 million, and the Vegas Bowl pays $1 million.

    Let's say that Utah does end in the middle of the PAC-10. That still lands them in the Vegas Bowl against the MWC Champ. I want to play against the best and beat the best. BYU can hang around and beat up on Wyoming and UNLV and enjoy the Vegas Bowl during their best seasons.

    It will be fun to measure a great year by quality wins against quality opponents instead of trying to go undefeated every year against 3-4 good teams and 6-7 dogs. And the reason the MWC isn't getting AQ status? Wyoming, CSU, NM, and UNLV are all ranked lower than 105 out of 120 in preseason rankings.

  • manchester10
    July 30, 2010 2:11 a.m.

    Assumptions that Utah will be a top class Pac-12 team from the get go.... Hm.... little over confident don't you think? Believe me. I hope the very best for the Utes and want them to do well. Although, I honestly feel that it may take a few years for Utah to acclimate to playing so many tough games. I am thinking you might be wishing you had held your tongue before your team loses a few games in 2011. It may be a d-news writer, but everyone needs a reality check from time to time.

  • uteowl
    July 30, 2010 12:46 a.m.

    The assumption is that Utah will be a middle tier program. Hmmmmm. Then why are there several knowledgeable writers at SI, ESPN, and other sports oriented websites that feel Utah will hit the ground running and be able to compete for a Pac 12 title immediately?

    Kurt Vonnegut had my favorite addition to the adage that starts, "Opinions are like..." He added "They all stink but your own."

    Oh well, what else should we expect from a D-News writer? I smell it through the net.

  • Howard S.
    July 30, 2010 12:29 a.m.

    Right Robinson, lets not grow and measure ourselves against the best. Let's not upset the DN and their BYU readers by daring to presume that we can do better and be better.

    Let's instead stay at home and not upset those who haven't qualified to sit at the table with the big boys.

  • Howard S.
    July 30, 2010 12:22 a.m.

    Utah will do just fine in the PAC12, Thankyouverymuch.

    The DN will continue to be the voice of bitterness and envy for those left behind.

  • Utes 31 Tide 17
    July 30, 2010 12:10 a.m.

    People said the same thing about big fish when Urban Meyer went to Florida.

    A Pac-10 championship/Rose Bowl is MUCH more likely than another undefeated season would've been in the MWC, particularly with Boise joining. Utah was a Freddie Brown catch on 4th and 5 or 2 missed Ross Evans chip-shot field goals from finishing 12-1 in 2008.

    Besides, you could still lose a conference game or two and still get the conference championship under the right circumstances. It will be tough, but the next step in the evolution of Utah football is smelling rosy.