BYU athletics: Tom Holmoe addresses the future of Cougars' program

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  • Dave from Taylorsville
    July 21, 2010 4:21 p.m.

    Naval Vet-

    If BYU can 3/4 fill the Tangerine Bowl back in 1976, then how is it there are no fans east of the Miss.??? These were FLORIDA BYU fans Forget the EAST, try the south. Your Daddy did'nt go to Mayport in FLA or you would have seen the BYU fans.

    And just because your national fan base has a common religion doesn't mean they aren't a national fan base!

  • poyman
    July 21, 2010 9:10 a.m.

    What would have been ideal is if all teams in the MWC woud have agreed to tell other conferences to pound sand and continue to grow the MWC into an even stronger league than it has already become.... With the addition of BSU the MWC had become arguably one of the three or four strongest football conferences in America.... And a very strong Basketball (4 teams to the NCAA playoffs last year)and Minor Sports conference to boot (i.e. TCU in the semi finals of the College World Series, and Utah in Gymnastics)...

  • poyman
    July 21, 2010 8:53 a.m.

    An interesting observation.... Utah fans like to think that it is because of their Football Program that they got the invite to the PAC 10.

    Truth is, that they got the invite because five of the SIX schools from the Big 12 that were invited before Utah turned them down... And, because the PAC 10 coaches and ADs from the PAC 10 didn't get a vote.... The coaches and ADs would have much preferred BYU and the revenue that they generate than the weaker traveling Utes.

    As much as y'all want to pound your chest for your 2 BCS experiences against weak BCS opponents, you would not have gotten the invite if it hadn't been for the University of California and Standford University Board of Regents. They are the ones that vetoed BYU and acquiesced to the University of Utah. In fact, even accepting Utah was probably hard for this agnostic entity because of the school's close proximity to Mormonism amongst its fan base.

    Ute fans don't want to admit this but a reasonable person would agree that BYU would generate more revenue for their conference than Utah week in and week out.

  • GoUtah
    July 20, 2010 4:57 p.m.


    This year's game at RES will be very similar to the '04 and '08 games. The tds had the chance to stop Utah from going to the BCS and failed. This year's game is simply too big for Utah to lose. Utah will not lose its last game in the MWC to a "mid-major" let alone to its rival.

    July 20, 2010 4:38 p.m.

    Utah three our of four. Soon to be four out of five.
    Thank you very much, and have a great day.

    July 20, 2010 1:50 p.m.


  • GoUtah
    July 19, 2010 10:54 p.m.

    Holmoe has done a good job considering what he has to work with. Too many people are blaming him for what is truly out of his control. The tds needs to get to the BCS and they've proven their inability to do such. The blame falls directly on Utah for being this decade's standout MWC team. Utah has kept it's little brother down south in check.

    You can't compete with the perfection that Utah has provided twice in the past six years. Versus the tds' once in the past 26. There's no question that the tds' program will fade in to obscurity just like their *NC.

    *Didn't beat a single top AP 25 Ranked team in '84.

  • hedgehog
    July 19, 2010 7:03 p.m.


    I notice you don't post on the "other" newspaper sports section. Seems like you might have been railroaded but you found a new home with the Dnews- good for you.

    As far as ND - as usual, you missed the point. ND can go 3-9 for the next two decades and STILL be one of the most important programs in the Nation. You see, ND has a huge football following, and unlike BYU, does not depend on religion to carry the torch.

    Sidenote: ND won 6 games last year and averaged over 450 yards per game.


  • Buster
    July 19, 2010 6:05 p.m.

    hedgehog | 1:19 p.m.


    You seem a little green – just getting your feet wet on the comment boards?"

    First of all...

    Just disregard HedgeHog, Uteology, Chris B, and NavalVet. All the same person (mentally, and personally I believe, physically too...), posting outlandish drivel, just to get a rise (OK, I'm breaking that rule now...) out of BYU fans.

    "First off; Try to avoid the Notre Dame comparison. It’s been thrown out many times by the zoobie and crushed every time."

    The two teams really can't be compared...
    The Irish are coming of a horrible 3-9 season. Not only did they lose, but they had the worst offense in the country, averaging 230 yards per game.

    See, unlike BYU which has been ranked in the top 25 four years running...

    Yep, HedgeHog sets the rules on these boards... Don't make him angry, or he will roll up in a little ball and play dead, paralyzed in fear on you...

  • hedgehog
    July 19, 2010 1:19 p.m.

    “Do you really think the PAC 12 would have invited Utah instead of Notre Dame, because of a meaningless mileage issue”.


    You seem a little green — just getting your feet wet on the comment boards?

    First off; Try to avoid the Notre Dame comparison. It’s been thrown out many times by the zoobie and crushed every time.
    Notre Dame is an anomaly in college sports with an undisputed national football (not religious) following. Any BCS conference would make room for ND.

    Second; Utah would not have been as attractive to the PAC 12 without a plausible traveling partner (Colorado).

    Third: Do you really think switching out Colorado for Air force is what the Big 12 has in mind regarding expansion? Military schools are not a fit for BCS conferences.

    Again. BYU lost all its allure when the Utes teamed up with the only other viable “mountain” program and until Boise State can bring up it “community college” academic status you’re forced to wait for a viable traveling buddy.

  • babyface
    July 19, 2010 11:53 a.m.

    Well BYU, the college football community has spoken. No one wants you. You were never in the PAC-10's plans, and now Holmoe reveals that you have never been in the Big-12's plans. Just be happy where you are. You're a good mid-major. Nothing wrong with that. I wish fans would enjoy life as it is instead of constantly looking for greener pastures. As a former Y season ticket holder, I think BYU football should be taken down a few notches. As we are constantly reminded, the football team exists to further the missionary program of the Church. Utah going to the PAC-10 is only the most recent incident that has revealed the ugly side of BYU football, namely its boorish and nasty fans. How does constantly putting down others help the mission of the Church? As a convert and the only LDS member in my birth family, I can tell you that BYU football has become a black-eye for the Church. Bronco is focussed on getting high-character players to put on display to the world, when in fact it is the negative actions of fans that are noticed most.

  • MUSSing with U
    July 19, 2010 11:10 a.m.


    "considering all the future loses to Utah"

    Is that what passes for English up on the hill?

    Here's a clue:

    loses /= losses
    sence? /= sense
    each programs?

    Try retaking that English 99R class again.

    Utah's "growth" potential is just as likely a free fall into obscurity, joining Washington State as a bottom feeder.

    BYU certainly doesn't "need" Utah for anything and playing Utah in the Ute's dinky little stadium more than once every other year is a non-starter.

    Why would the Cougars want to take a $1 million in the pocketbook just for the dubious "privilege" of playing the Utes?

    BYU has much bigger fish to fry than a PAC 12 bottom feeder.

  • redfeather
    July 19, 2010 10:45 a.m.

    Naval Vet

    Talking to yourself again hedgehog?

    How far is Colorado from LA?

    Mileage between college campuses is meaningless in today's conference realignment landscape.

    Do you really think the PAC 12 would have invited Utah instead of Notre Dame, because of a meaningless "mileage" issue, if the Irish had expressed an interest in joining the PAC 12?

    USC and Stanford both have much stronger rivalries with Notre Dame, a non-conference member, than the Utes will ever have with the Trojans.

    The Big 12 commissioner has already stated that the Big 12 isn't interested in expanding within the current 5-state Big 12 footprint. That means that teams like TCU, Houston, and Tulsa are already being ruled out -- teams that are much closer than BYU.

    Things can always change, but if that position doesn't change, then the most logical candidates for Big 12 expansion are BYU and Air Force, or teams from C-USA or the Big East. Arkansas of the SEC has already said they're not interested in joining the Big 12.

  • GoUtah
    July 19, 2010 10:28 a.m.

    Holmoe can look down the road and see Utah's program growth potential and fully understands what it means to the tds. . . loses to Utah!

    It looks like Holmoe is whimping out on the rivalry, eh? As a member of the PAC 12, it would only make financial sence for the tds to play Utah. But considering all the future loses to Utah, the 2 for 1 is only an excuse not to play.

    With each programs going in opposite direction, I don't blame him. . .

  • Naval Vet
    July 19, 2010 10:24 a.m.

    Dave from Taylorsville:

    I live back East now. There aren't that many ybU fans. In fact, outside of my local stake [there's only one in Philadelphia] I don't know of ANY WAC or MWC fans.

    My father was a career soldier, and I spent time in the Navy. I've lived all over the country too. East of the Mississippi River, I've lived in Chicago, Detroit, Toledo, Washington, D.C., Orlando, and Philadelphia. I've also lived in St. Louis which is right on the West banks of the Mississippi, so I think that ought to count. With the exception of Washington, D.C., there really isn't a significant LDS population. Philadelphia has only one stake.

    If you go to any sporting goods stores in any of those cities, even though there maybe a couple of thousand Mormons, you will never find ybU regalia on the shelves. You'll find Notre Dame, Michigan, Ohio St, Texas, No. Carolina, UCLA, Cal, Stanford, Penn State..., but not ybU.

    Know why?

    Because you DON'T have a nat'l following. You have a RELIGIOUS following. And it's very small East of the Mississippi.

    Sad, irrelvant zoob.

  • Dave from Taylorsville
    July 19, 2010 9:43 a.m.


    In all my days in many, MANY, LDS stakes east of the Mississippi, I can count on one hand the number of Ute fans I met. And I knew the college football allegence of pretty much everyone I knew and came in contact with more than casually.

    And you somehow think that the BYU fans down south and back east (don't let the southerners hear you refer to the south as "back east") are going to switch their allegence from BYU to Utah just because the Utes are in ANOTHER (not better, but different) conference. How delusional is that?!?

    I can't believe all this is a shock or unknown to Ute fans. You do have a strong fan base. But it is nothing, NOTHING, like BYUs. You people that REALLY think otherwise need a brain transplant or different colored glasses.

  • Naval Vet
    July 19, 2010 9:34 a.m.


    "...put yourself in Texas’s shoes; would you be willing to accept a program that is over 500 miles for one the nearest member?"

    ybU is about 540 miles from CU. It would have been more correct for you to have said, "...put yourself in Texas’s shoes; would you be willing to accept a program that is over 500 miles for one the nearest FORMER member". Either that or change "500 miles" to "900 miles". That's the approximate distance from Provostan to Lubbock. Texas Tech is now the closest school to ybU.

  • Naval Vet
    July 19, 2010 9:20 a.m.


    “I find it pretty amusing that somehow attempting to play ‘connect the dots to Utah’ by using an obscure Chip Brown reference wherein he discusses speculation about Kansas and Oklahoma State (without mentioning it's impact on Utah) is making me ‘look stupid’.”

    That’s because you evidently STILL hadn’t read the article “How the Big 12 came back to life”. The Desnews is very particular about what they’ll allow people to post. They won’t allow over 200 words, nor will they permit URLs. It’s in there.

    You look stupid because you “LOL”-ed my premise that Texas’ decision to stay in the Big XII had no impact on the Utes’ Pac-10 invitation, and provided no evidence to the contrary. I provided evidence to support it, and where to find said support. Your response was to bury your head in the sand by not reading the article, then argue a point clearly answered in the very article you refused to read as though it hadn’t been addressed. That’s stupid.

  • hedgehog
    July 19, 2010 7:53 a.m.

    In reality the only option left for Holmoe is to stay in the MWC a hope for an at large BCS appearance. The MWC will never become an AQ; Not because they’re not worthy of such status but because the “powers that be” have zero interest in sharing revenue. Put it this way, would you willingly except a pay cut or reduced commission plan at work because the company wants to make the office intern a fulltime employee? What incentive is the current BCS conferences teams getting for allowing the MWC to sit at the big boy table — nothing.

    As far a joining another BCS conference? Sorry, Kewgs your only geographical travel buddies (Utah or Colorado) which made expansion plausible, just jumped to the PAC10. Take off your blue tinted glasses and put yourself in Texas’s shoes; would you be willing to accept a program that is over 500 miles for one the nearest member?

  • YtxPat
    July 19, 2010 7:16 a.m.

    It looks for the near future, BYU will play Utah every year in the Las Vegas Bowl.

  • Carson
    July 19, 2010 1:02 a.m.

    The fan base YBU has east of the Miss River are church members. Utah has enough ties with the LDs church, Coaches,and team members, who are members that I believe Utah will pick up those church member fans that Ybu has had just because of the church ties...Watch & See!

  • Dave from Taylorsville
    July 18, 2010 11:17 p.m.


    I am sick and tired of hearing these PROVINCIAL Ute fans with the "BYU doesn't have a national following" mantra.

    Here are the FACTS. Yes, FACTS!!! I have personally been there:

    - When BYU played Okla. St. in 1976 in Orlando where 20% of the crowd was OSU fans (from Oklahoma), 20% were Sailors invited along with general admission locals, and 60% were BYU fans, MOST of which were NOT from Utah.

    - Same thing happened when they played Oh. St.

    - Same thing happened in the Cotton Bowl, MOSt of the BYU fans were from the south.

    - I have been to early BYU football games satelite broadcasts in a Florida LDS Stake Center - IT WAS PACKED!!!

    - You just don't understand that, if Utah played in a non-BCS bowl game in Florida, or anywhere else east of the Mississippi, IT WOULD NOT HAPPEN. BECAUSE NOONE WOULD INVITE THEM!!! Unlike BYU, Utah doesn't have a fan base east of the Miss.

    These aren't just spraying platitudes by a Ute Troll. They are facts. Do well in the Pac What Ever It Is This Week. If you do, it will reflect well on BYU.

  • VegasCoug
    July 18, 2010 9:48 p.m.

    Naval Vet

    I find it pretty amusing that somehow attempting to play "connect the dots to Utah" by using an obscure Chip Brown reference wherein he discusses speculation about Kansas and Oklahoma State (without mentioning it's impact on Utah) is making me "look stupid".

    At any rate, you are such a big fan of "researchable facts" yet never seem to respond to any of my research.

    Care to respond to the fact (that I now have pointed out several times on this thread to no response) that KW has averaged an MWC finishing spot of 3.4 and has finished 3rd or worse every year but 2008? (6th, 4th, 3rd, 1st, 3rd is Kyle's track record).

    I thought the MWC was sooooo beneath the mighty Utes? If Kyle finishes 3rd or worse every year but one in the lowly "mid-major" MWC, how will your Utes fare in the PAC? How will the Utes fare in road games in the PAC when Kyle is 0-3 in Pac road games?

    Care to acknowledge any research that is not convenient to your crimson sunglass viewpoints?

  • Naval Vet
    July 18, 2010 3:38 p.m.


    "...I for one feel compelled to not let these Yewt egos and obnoxious posts go un-checked."

    You claimed you never saw anything on Orangebloods that substantiated my assertion, so I served it up to you Utah-style [aka: research] and left you looking pretty stupid. Way to take one for the team there, but how did that “check” my post?

    "if you want to have a constructive dialogue with fellow Cougar fans than I suggest you meet me over at Cougar Board or Total Blue Sports. I'm at those spots daily..."

    HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! That place is a homer board! How can you expect to have any constructive dialogue in a homogenous forum? Besides, Juice requested constructive feedback on how Holmoe plans to get the "why?" out of the MWC, but everybody over there on those boards are just as snowed as you regarding Holmoe's plan. And THAT is that they're doing "something".

    " is important that nobody knows what is going on." -- Tom Holmoe, July 16.

    Haha! Mission accomplished. Nobody has known what's been going on for what has been alleged to be going on 3 yrs now.

    Go zoobs.

  • Paul Revere
    July 18, 2010 3:32 p.m.

    Another fact is that both the the Y and the U sell more tickets to football and basketball fans at home and away games than most of the current PAC 10 teams. The PAC 10 decision to invite who they invited was motivated by the President's of the PAC 10 Conference and not the ADs or Athletic Departments. BYU does not need the PAC 10 to be successful. Success is driven by the people who coach and direct the programs at the given university. BYU has a super Athletic Department and many great coaching staffs in all their sports and these programs are competitive on a conference and national level. Keep up the great work Coach Holmoe!

  • Paul Revere
    July 18, 2010 3:21 p.m.

    Thanks VegasCoug. Naval Vet et al. Congratulations on getting in the PAC 10, albeit after certain Big 12 schools turned the PAC 10 offer down. What is interesting is your arrogant talk. When my father coached at Stanford in the 70s I use to despise the Big 10 teams who talked down PAC 8 football because only they could play football. When it came to the Rose Bowl, Woody Hayes or Bo Schemblecher (spelling?)coached teams would always lose to USC, Stanford or one of the other PAC 8 schools. I see in your comments the same arrogance, and am left wondering how and why you all feel this way. Outside of the BCS bowls you have been fortunate to play in you have little else to support your high and mighty attitude. I suggest you lower the attitude, be grateful for your teams achievements and stop the now arrogant attitude of the PAC 10 teams. Your pride will be your downfall. PS Speak to the ADs of the PAC 10 teams and find out who they really wanted. They wanted both BYU and Utah because of fan base and their FB and BB stadiums sizes.

  • VegasCoug
    July 18, 2010 2:53 p.m.


    Sorry man, but this isn't the board for constructive Cougar fan talk. It's overrun with Yewt trolls and I for one feel compelled to not let these Yewt egos and obnoxious posts (now wholly inflated to unbearable PAC proportions) go un-checked.

    Now, if you want to have a constructive dialogue with fellow Cougar fans than I suggest you meet me over at Cougar Board or Total Blue Sports. I'm at those spots daily...

  • hedgehog
    July 18, 2010 2:40 p.m.

    "I for one, would like to know a specific timetable from Tom."


    I can only imagine your frustration and pain. The "timetable" only begins with a BCS Bowl victory - without it, your nationally irrelavent.

  • Juice
    July 18, 2010 2:12 p.m.


    As one BYU fan to another, please stop. Seriously, what do you hope to accomplish by engaging in these silly posts? Let's try to be constructive.

    How about posting your opinions on how Tom Holmoe is going to get us out of the MWC. I for one, would like to know a specific timetable from Tom.

  • VegasCoug
    July 18, 2010 1:41 p.m.

    Naval Yewt

    "...Scott and Weiberg made one critical mistake in the courtship of the Big 12. Other than its somewhat foggy math that a 16-team Pac-10 could readily get to $20 million in TV revenue per school, they wanted to substitute Kansas for Oklahoma State late in the process..."

    So is this speculation from Chip Brown about Kansas and Oklahoma State now part of your canon of "researchable facts"? Trying to connect the dots to Utah's PAC invite...Interesting....

    Anyways, the debate is irrelevent now because Utah did get in, and congrats on that.

    Now, I'm sure you are all hoping that KW's 0-3 road mark against the PAC will translate into many rose bowl appearances. Good luck! Let me just remind the Yewt nation that Kyle has finished 3rd or worse in the MWC every year except 2008. So the prognosis for the PAC is...

    Many more trips to the Poinsettia bowl, and maybe now the Utes will be able to get to the Vegas Bowl as well!

  • Naval Vet
    July 18, 2010 1:10 p.m.


    "...Scott and Weiberg made one critical mistake in the courtship of the Big 12. Other than its somewhat foggy math that a 16-team Pac-10 could readily get to $20 million in TV revenue per school, they wanted to substitute Kansas for Oklahoma State late in the process..."

    -- Chip Brown, Orangebloods

  • hedgehog
    July 18, 2010 12:48 p.m.


    Holmoe has no plan. However, he feels the smug (and desperate) need to provide false hope to zoobies who can't handle the truth.

  • Juice
    July 18, 2010 10:57 a.m.

    chuckie and FAYM,

    Instead of spending most of your time trying to belittle, I want to hear something constructive. What do you suggest that Tom Holmoe do to get us out of the MWC? What are your suggestions?

    All of this back and forth is not helping and is getting ridiculous. I for one, do not think it is too much to ask of Mr. Holmoe to tell us his specific plan to get us into an elite BCS Conference. So far I have been a little disappointed in his vague and ambiguous responses.

    Who knows, maybe Tom has a plan but is not letting us know about it. I think the more plausible explanation is that there is no plan.

  • Deafmom
    July 18, 2010 10:08 a.m.

    @ MUSDAS

    Once again, I get a kick out of people who substitute reality for words.... and then argue about the words....

    Your assumptions are hilarious to say the least. Nowhere did I post the aspects of a competition between BYU's. The issue, once again, is Athletics and education. The issue I posted was that BYU-I's degree w/o intercollegiate athletics has more weight than a BYU-Provo degree according to a national magazine (one that promotes the 500's if you know what I mean).

    As for your money comment, if you look at my first post, I said we are too concerned with money as opposed to education. Does the Church need the money from atheletics to keep BYU and other church schools open? I think not.

    As for pointing out spelling errors on a Blog (and yes I misspelled believe..not bad for Deaf syntax though)...well...that just goes to show how small and weak your "presentation" and personality really are.

    Let's focus on the WHOLE university...not just the atheletes.

  • poyman
    July 18, 2010 9:14 a.m.

    I'm a BYU Grad and former athlete from many years and pounds ago but this is all very confusing to me...

    Maybe it's my issue, but it seems like Holmoe talks alot and basically says nothing.... I feel like I need an interpreter whenever he makes a statement.... Amonth ago he comes out and says how excited he is for the many things that will e breaking in BYU's favor in the immediate future (or maybe he didn't say that and I just thought he did), and then today he is more solemn and soft spoken and doesn't know exactly what direction the Athletics Department will go and acts like we have little control over the situation other than we're going to take control (whatever that means)....

    My recommendation Tom is to not talk with the media about BYU's direction until you know what it is.... and if you don't know what it is, don't act like something big is coming down the pike next week (like a Big 12 invite)....

  • Howard S.
    July 18, 2010 8:10 a.m.

    FAYM | 12:21 a.m. July 18, 2010

    Do those 3 out of 4 BYU victories ease your pain of Utah's invitation to the PAC 10?

    Do the small number of Utah's MWC championships help you sleep better when you think of Utah's PAC 10 invitation?

    The reality is that the only fact that means anything is that Utah is in and BYU is out.

    Your pain over that fact will subside in time.

    The grieving process will take some time for you.

  • hedgehog
    July 18, 2010 7:14 a.m.

    When youu have no argument, this is where you go?"


    Come on, Holmoe looks like he's been soaking in a hot tub time machine.

  • Justmythoughts
    July 18, 2010 2:19 a.m.

    I agree with those who say that BYU should play their non-conference games against teams from the Big 12 or Big 10. Scheduling a PAC 10/12 team really does no good...they are never going to be in the PAC 10 and besides...beating UCLA by 35 points or Oregon State in the LV Bowl didn't impress anyone in the past and it won't in the future. Also....time for the rivalry game against Utah to die... good riddance.

  • FAYM
    July 18, 2010 1:18 a.m.

    "Andrew J. Marksen | 12:24 a.m. July 18, 2010
    Here is the final word on all the future of BYU football talk.

    BYU follows the mission that the LDS Church gives it. If the leaders of the church woke up on Monday and decided that football (or any athletic program at BYU) was no longer needed to further that mission it would be cut with no questions or second thoughts."

    "Asked if BYU would ever drop intercollegiate athletics, Holmoe said a "minority" of people bring that up and that he doesn't see that ever happening. He said the feedback he's received from LDS Church officials that run BYU is that they are generally pleased with the good the athletic department does in promoting the positive aspects of the church."

    So we can file that in the "never going to happen file."

  • fyre
    July 18, 2010 12:55 a.m.


    You get all your info from Google? You mean the info about Chad Lewis in the "Mormon Times" being a missionary in China? Again... one guy being in a Mormon church and/or BYU media system does not translate to the tangible exposure of educating dozens of Chinese citizens and/or massive Humanitarian aid during disasters...The NFL means diddly squat in China...Google it...since that is your information source and find out what part of the world is interested in the NFL and its athletes where daily American news articles describe assaults, drugs, murder and etc committed by its members.

    Read "Deafmom at 6:37" she has a good argument.

    If you are going to try to debate instead of trying to end run the issue - go chat with your Jr. High debate teacher to find out some strategy on finding legitimate research other than "Google it".

  • Andrew J. Marksen
    July 18, 2010 12:24 a.m.

    Here is the final word on all the future of BYU football talk.

    BYU follows the mission that the LDS Church gives it. If the leaders of the church woke up on Monday and decided that football (or any athletic program at BYU) was no longer needed to further that mission it would be cut with no questions or second thoughts. Athletics, including football, are secondary to the primary mission of BYU. When this issue is viewed in this light it puts an interesting perspective on things.

    I will enjoy my season tickets to both schools because none of us knows when or how things will change in the future. I would encourage everyone else to enjoy both of these teams as well.

  • FAYM
    July 18, 2010 12:21 a.m.

    Howard S. | 11:53 p.m.

    Wouldn't be that hard to verify the score for the last BYU-Utah game. Or even the last three out of four.

    I'm going to give the props to the Utes. The have won 1 out of four in football. I heard 1 of 8 in basketball, but that can't beeeee... We need a fact chedker to verify these scores.

    And Utah winning only one MWC (mid-major) title in womens tennis to BYU's 9. Help me out HowardS. Certainly the team headed to the PAC is better.

    Really, the MWC invited BSU. The PAC taking Utah is like the MWC inviting Dixie State College. Why not one of the colleges doing something, showing athletic prowness and all?

    Well, Utah, if you can pull third in football, and tie for 5th in basketball, we know the PAC is at least as good as the MWC. If Utah does better, we all know the Utes went to a weaker conference.

    It's all about the money? BYU grads make more than Utah grads... 77 to 281??? Scholar athletes at Utah??? LOL

    Why are the Utes so weak? Yet arrogant. Interesting combination.

  • Carson
    July 18, 2010 12:14 a.m.

    And while you're giggling like a little school girl, know that none of those 6 pts are speculation. They're all researchable facts.


    How's bout this fact. Utah's going to the PAC, YBU is going nowhere!

  • Howard S.
    July 17, 2010 11:53 p.m.

    I wonder if the BYU fact checkers realized that all their verifiable facts mean nothing.

    The only relevant fact is that Utah is in and BYU is out with no prospect of a major conference invitation.

    It is as simple as that and your fact checking simply reflects your bitterness and envy over Utah's PAC 10 invitation.

  • MUSSing with U
    July 17, 2010 11:50 p.m.


    Yawn! Your screen name says it all.

    BYU doesn't even have to try to sell 45,000 tickets. Sell out a BCS-sized stadium, then you can talk.

  • Juice
    July 17, 2010 11:15 p.m.

    Some of these posts by supposed BYU fans are embarrassing to me. Instead of trying to belittle and puff our chests, let's focus on getting ourselves out of the MWC!! This should be what we are talking about right now. We need Tom Holmoe to give us a concrete and specific plan on how he plans to get us to an elite BCS Conference and out of the MWC. I want to know and I want to know now! Please Tom, give us your plan.

  • Buster
    July 17, 2010 10:56 p.m.

    And while you're giggling like a little school girl, know that none of those 6 pts are speculation. They're all researchable facts.


    How's bout this fact. Utah was last choice, and not because of acedemics, of what happens on the field of play.

    Research that one...

  • Buster
    July 17, 2010 10:54 p.m.

    And while you're giggling like a little school girl, know that none of those 6 pts are speculation. They're all researchable facts.

    Yes naval...

    We'll all run out and research your "facts"...

    Oh, boy, navalvet has another claim for us all to research. Let's all run out and research navals "facts", None of his other facts are true, but let's reasearch these "facts"... Let's research, because we don't want to be "schoolgirls"...

    Yep, navalvet has called another name...

    Now "zoobs" are "schoolgirls"...

    That, or how about we blow your old tired rants off, vet?

  • VegasCoug
    July 17, 2010 10:04 p.m.

    @ Naval Vet

    "They're all researchable facts."

    Your researchable facts sure don't match what I was seeing on ESPN, Orangebloods, etc. But oh well, you still can't disp-UTE the fact that Utah was not the PAC's "first string" choice. But that's all irrelevent now because they got in, they're a solid fit for the PAC and congratulations to the Yewts.

    Love the calling of names such as "little school girl" by the way. Very cute. Awww, did my "LOL" touch a nerve? It's amazing to me what the moderators let you get away with on these boards.

    While we're on the subject of "researchable facts", here's a FACT for you to research:

    Bronco has a better record against the PAC then Kyle does.

    That's right, Bronco is 6-4 against the PAC while your boy KW is only 4-3 (and KW is 0-3 against the PAC in road games). Have fun with those PAC road games Utes! Welcome to "middle of the PAC land"! (don't worry, you'll be kept company by ASU, Arizona, Washington, Stanford, etc!)

  • BoringGuy
    July 17, 2010 10:03 p.m.

    @MUSSing with U

    We'll see who's the little brother when we compare athletic budgets in a few years.

    Let's also compare how many season tickets are still available at LES vs. RES.

    2010 Season Tickets:

    LES - Thousands & Thousands
    RES - ZERO

  • MUSSing with U
    July 17, 2010 9:32 p.m.

    I see that the blog has been overrun by a bunch of insecure little brothers from up on the hill. Must be a slow day in Uteville for them to be spending a beautiful Saturday trying to convince themselves that they aren't still BYU's little brother.

  • Buster
    July 17, 2010 9:30 p.m.


    Am I right?

    Facts leave no doubt the Utes are the weak link in the conference (a mid major), while BYU shines...

    Am I right?

    Last time I posted this you all backed off...

    Am I right?


    Boring Guy:


    Indy is a raceway.



    When youu have no argument, this is where you go?


  • AST
    July 17, 2010 9:09 p.m.

    BYU shouldn't get buffaloed by this turmoil. With Boise State coming into the MWC, I don't think the conference can be ignored. Whether the BCS gives it a bowl berth, is really beyond BYU's control. It's all about the size of the TV audience its teams can command. TCU will attract the eyes of Texas, so to speak, and Boise State has become a national name because of its performance in post season games. BYU seems to be on the cusp of repeating the path of BSU and Utah into nationally known teams, but whether it does or not, it is a unique program with important goals in addition to winning games.

  • Naval Vet
    July 17, 2010 9:04 p.m.


    You can "LOL" all you want, but the fact remains, I have more evidence to suggest they WOULD have than you that they would NOT have.


    1. The Pac-10 sought 6 expansion teams
    2. The list of legitimate [i.e. not Baylor, Missouri, or ybU] expansion candidates was 8 long: Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Colorado, Nebraska, Utah, Kansas, Texas Tech, and Oklahoma St.
    3. When the Pac-10 invited CU, they had 5 spots remaining for 8 teams.
    4. When the Big 10 invited NU, they had 5 spots remaining for 7 teams.
    5. Texas A&M openly preferred [and DID RECEIVE] an invitation to the SEC. That left 5 spots among 6 teams.
    6. The Pac-10 reportedly tried to nudge out OSU in the 11th hour of the deal in favor of Kansas [because they REALLY didn't want the non-research-institution Cowboys]. That left 5 spots open among 5 teams. And the only 5 teams that were left were Texas, Oklahoma, Tx Tech, Kansas.....and UTAH!

    And while you're giggling like a little school girl, know that none of those 6 pts are speculation. They're all researchable facts.

  • BoringGuy
    July 17, 2010 8:48 p.m.

    BYU can go indy if it wants. But news flash, that will pretty much ensure you never play in a BCS bowl. Sorry, the Cougars have no where near the bargaining power of Notre Dame. No where near the tradition. No where near the national following. It would be a joke and you'd get about as much attention as Navy.

    Again, start working the Big 12 angle as hard as you can. You're only option is to pray that Missouri and/or Kansas leaves for another conference -- then you might be able to fill the spot.

    "Magic" doesn't just happen unless you have Chris Hill and Whit on your side. You have to angle, position, and befriend the right people.

    With that said, if I'm BYU fan, I'm not very encouraged by Holmoe's interview. He seems clueless. He should call Lavell Edwards for some advice, quick!

  • Casper
    July 17, 2010 8:27 p.m.

    @Bluto | 7:55 p.m. July 17, 2010

    "Check out the recent Financial Times article and read how Wall Street, CIA, FBI, Law firms, etc. rate LDS graduates in General..."

    I cut your statement short because LDS graduates in general is exactly correct. I'm in the field and I know.

  • MUSSDad
    July 17, 2010 8:21 p.m.

    @Deafmom | 6:37 p.m. July 17, 2010

    Excuse me but did YOU not say THIS...

    "BYU-I's degree according to a national magazine is MORE PRESTIGIOUS than a BYU-Provo degree."

    Are you not making an argument for a BYU-I degree being more PRESTIGIOUS than a BYU-Provo degree? I can't even summarize your comment to be any more clear than what you wrote.

    First: the issue YOU raise ("should we focus on making money or educating the students?") has NOTHING to do with the issues discussed on this board. By the way...please point out where my comment on your post hyperbolic? Your LOGIC escapes me.

    Second: Sports brings needed money into schools. End of story. Please note, your participation in sports is COMPLETELY irrelevant to YOUR argument/issue.

    Third: I happen to agree completely with your statement "BYU atheletics do LITTLE to promote the Gospel. I do not beleive that the Lord cares one way or another if BYU wins a national championship, is part of the BCS or gains another dollar of income from their sports programs"

    Finally, you have some misspelled words in your post, teacher.

  • hedgehog
    July 17, 2010 8:13 p.m.

    Howard S,

    Actually Holmoe is sporting circa 1987 fashion.

    Sidenote: The photos make the LES look no bigger than a high school field.

    Come on Holmoe, You need to SELL yourself and the program as something relevant. It's not the 80's anymore.

  • Bluto
    July 17, 2010 7:55 p.m.

    re: Nostradamous

    Lecturing me how to spell? Heard of a typo?

    Like you at "disucssion" or "infintile".

    Try "discussion" and "infantile".

    We can excuse you, you sound like a young Father, surrounded by "infints".

    Nice call out Einstein. Kettle meet Pot!

    Actually Einstein, the Y's way ahead of you on the Elitism thing as well.

    While Utah's self proclaimed "Elite Status' is of the phantom variety, BYU's is indeed legitimate.

    Just check the rankings big boy.

    BYU, top Tier University, Utah, Not. BYU's Law, Business, Management, Nursing, Engineering, etc. simply rank higher than the U.

    You have the Y beat in the Med school, because, the Y does not have one, and also in the ability to secure Govt. grants.

    BYU leads the Nation in new Patents when factored with research dollars spent. Bang for the buck, anyone?

    And let's not even discuss average SAT scores, Merit Scholars etc..

    Check out the recent Financial Times article and read how Wall Street, CIA, FBI, Law firms, etc. rate LDS graduates in General and BYU graduates specifically. BYU is already considered Elite, by headhunters.

    Your ax to grind is irrelevant.

    People in the know, know.

  • Howard S.
    July 17, 2010 7:45 p.m.

    Re: hedgehog | 7:33 p.m. July 17, 2010

    Sure, Holmoe may have led BYU to irrelevance but the man is a snappy dresser.

    Give credit where its due. Just look at those pics.

  • hedgehog
    July 17, 2010 7:33 p.m.

    What i don't understand is Y you zoobies don't want to hang Holmoe out to dry.

    On his watch he let your most bitter rival make the Y irrelevant. The Utes only reason to even think about playing the Y is for old time sake. What you zoobies fail to comprehend that your 'chest pounding" delusion success means NOTHING anymore to the goals of Utah. Let's hope we avoid the Y because in all honesty, win or lose, playing the Y does nothing to move the Ute program forward.

  • Bigdude
    July 17, 2010 7:22 p.m.

    If I am Ute the last thing I want is for BYU go independent. If I am a Cougar that's what I'm praying for.

  • Cougar Blue
    July 17, 2010 6:42 p.m.

    ESPN online has an interesting take on the PAC 10 expansion. Go to page 2 and read an article from yesterday. It's prefaced something to the effect of conference expansion.

  • VegasCoug
    July 17, 2010 6:39 p.m.

    "Hill needn't thank Texas. If Texas had joined the Pac-10 [16], the Utes would have still been included among the 16. So wipe your tears."

    Do you really believe this Naval Vet? Wow.... LOL

  • Deafmom
    July 17, 2010 6:37 p.m.


    Again, I get a kick of the people, like you, who beg the questions instead of addressing the issue. BYU arguing with BYU? Absolutely LAUGHABLE if not PATHETIC...which is what your "analysis" was.

    While I would agree that collegiate atheletics has its place, (and I did not attend BYU BTW) the issue is should we focus on making money or educating the students? As a teacher, and as one who has participated in sports, Education is far more importantant than joining the PAC 10, Big 12 or UU BYU rivalies. With RARE exception, (Lewis being the exception and NOT the rule) I beleive that BYU atheletics do LITTLE to promote the Gospel. I do not beleive that the Lord cares one way or another if BYU wins a national championship, is part of the BCS or gains another dollar of income from their sports programs.

    So, focus on the issue and not on hyperbole...THAT'S the difference of an EDUCATION.

  • chuckie
    July 17, 2010 5:59 p.m.

    Howard S. | 4:02 p.m.

    Seriously, your post meant what???
    Karl Malone?


    Give me a break....

  • Naval Vet
    July 17, 2010 5:50 p.m.


    "Buster = Chuckie. Am I right?"

    Close. You're HALF right: Buster = chuckie = Fiddler = Veritas Aequitas, was the correct answer.

  • Naval Vet
    July 17, 2010 5:47 p.m.

    Paul Revere:

    Hill needn't thank Texas. If Texas had joined the Pac-10 [16], the Utes would have still been included among the 16. So wipe your tears.

  • VegasCoug
    July 17, 2010 5:21 p.m.

    These Ute trolls absolutely crack me up. You guys all talk an awful big game for a program that only has five 10+ win seasons in it's ENTIRE HISTORY. Bwahahaha!

  • MUSSDad
    July 17, 2010 5:20 p.m.

    @scott | 4:57 p.m. July 17, 2010

    Yeah, that's exactly the way Larry Scott explained it.

    Buster, your last post is barely coherent. Upset??

    Buster = Chuckie. Am I right?

  • Paul Revere
    July 17, 2010 5:12 p.m.

    PS Otis, Navel Vet and Howard S I hope Chris Hill sent a "Thank You" card to the University of Texas for rejecting a chance to join the PAC 10. Remember that without their rejection of the PAC 10 offer Chris Hill may have been working another 20 years to get the U into another conference.

  • Paul Revere
    July 17, 2010 5:09 p.m.

    Navel Vet, Howard S, Otis Spurlock, Your eyes are obviously blinded by a red covering. I am not aware of any BYU Athletic Department employee resting on his/her laurels from 1984. The U is moving to a conference that NEVER intended to invite a religious school like BYU. FYI they would never invite a Baylor. If you remember the recent rounds of talks with Big 12 teams Baylor was left out. BYU does not need the U to be successful. BYU's athletic teams will continue to be competitive at the national level for that was a challenge given several years ago to build every sports team into nationally competitive programs. I think they have done far better at this than your precious U. Congratulations to Coach Holmoe and all the coaches at the Y. I agree with one person that posted earlier that the U will become the ASU of the PAC 12-competitive sometimes but mostly irrelevant. I shall enjoy watching you get beat in the Vegas and Poinsettia Bowls and reading about your basketball team failures in the papers. Good luck and don't let the door hit you as you leave.

  • scott
    July 17, 2010 4:57 p.m.

    Dr. Hill didn't do anything except answer the phone when the PAC 10 called. Once BYU, the better sports program, was eliminated because of religious bigotry, Utah and Colorado were the only options available.

  • Buster
    July 17, 2010 4:44 p.m.

    Naval Vet | 3:55 p.m. July 17, 2010

    Dude, I quoted a source, and now you tell us "Zoobs" what the quote means?

    Thanks, but no thanks..

    I have a source, you quote "Zoobs", because it's not as sexy as a "secret conversation".


    "MUSSDad | 4:05 p.m. July 17, 2010
    Buster | 3:20 p.m. July 17, 2010

    Come on Buster, for decades BYU fans have talked about going to the PAC."

    Sorry, missed it. I guess you and Naval have different "Zoob" sources than I do.

    Now you are quoting Zoobs? Man, how do you guys live talking sports with educated people. Right, you talk with your MUSS-Kids around the table, all agree, and it becomes a "Ute-Fact......

    Talk about embarrasing for BYU fans...

    What about third in the MWC in Football, and a weak fifth tie in Basketball...

    If you can't do it on the field and courts, do it in the Deseret News Comment Section....

    1 MWC title in Women's Tennis in a mid-major to 9 for BYU...

    77-281 -- Watch your kids diploma go down in value. A BCS does not get them hired...

    Yep, go utes....

  • Jealous U
    July 17, 2010 4:43 p.m.

    "Earth to [Cougar] . . . Wow! Do you understand that it's 2010 and football hasn't started yet?"

    Go back read the post and you'll see that I was talking about this year (2010-2011)!!!

  • chuckie
    July 17, 2010 4:15 p.m.

    fyre | 12:53 p.m. July 17, 2010
    "chuckie" how does Lewis (one person) being the NFL ambassador to China...where the NFL is so popular with the indigent workers scrapping for food...make the mission of the LDS church bring education to the indigent workers?

    So, if you want the answer for "more than one person", you can use Google as well as I can.

    Chad Lewis is an "example" of one person who is making inroads with the Government of Communist China, and making possible of the LDS Church helping the "workers" of China.

    Now, if you cannot connect the dots to see how one person can affect the ability of the church improving the lives of millions, because of his "celebrity", and connections with the NFL, then I'm sorry, and move on to your next excuse of why BYU should only have intramural sports.

    (The Dalai Lama is having difficulty finding the "middle road" with Communist China. You can't see this? What Chad lewis is doing? Then my post won't help... sorry)

    BYU is not going intramural (not intermural)...

  • MUSSDad
    July 17, 2010 4:05 p.m.

    Buster | 3:20 p.m. July 17, 2010

    Come on Buster, for decades BYU fans have talked about going to the PAC. Navel Vet knows it, I know it, and everyone on this board knows it including you. That talk is what Navel Vet is referring to and you know it.

    Further, this conversation wouldn't be taking place now if Utah had not been invited to the PAC. BYU, its fans, and athletic administration (Holmoe) would be perfectly content with the MWC. That arrangement allowed the BYU collective to talk like every conference in the country wanted them without the burden of having to proving it.

    Well, guess what...there's one thing the recent minor conference shake up accomplished with respect to BYU - it has exposed the incessant BYU talk for exactly what it How embarrassing for BYU fans. It must be tough being forced to face up to a reality so diametrically opposed to the one created and lived by BYU fans for years.

  • Howard S.
    July 17, 2010 4:02 p.m.

    Tom Holmoe classic quote -
    "We're in an unusual position of being in the middle of things, but not on the internal area of things."

    Karl Malone classic quote -
    "What have Charles Barkley did what Karl Malone have not did?"

    I actually think Karl made more sense.

  • BoringGuy
    July 17, 2010 3:57 p.m.

    @Veritas Aequitas

    "Just sit back and watch how it plays out. BYU is, was, and will be in good hands."

    The problem with BYU and its fans is they think they're so great. So great and wonderful that they don't need to push and position thsmselves for a better situation and conference. That is, BYU is so fantastic that the "magic" will happen on its own, right?

    Wrong! Dr. Hill put the Utes on a path toward the PAC in 1987 and worked hard to get us there.

    BYU should absolutely not "just sit back" and see what happens. Face reality, you're in an athletic conference that most likely won't get a BCS bid. Your football program hasn't done anything significant in the BCS era. Your basketball team has no tradition.

    Quit thinking and talking about how great and wonderful BYU is and start sucking up to the Big 12. Most of all, quit complaining about how you deserved it more than the Utes. Dr. Hill, through hard word, determination, brilliant hiring, etc., earned Utah's spot at the big kids table. BYU needs a similar effort. It won't just come.

  • Naval Vet
    July 17, 2010 3:55 p.m.

    "Busted" Buster:

    "'BYU is still working on strategic things,' [Holmoe] said when asked if any major conferences, such as the Big 12, had expressed interest in the school. 'I am not going to play my hand on the things we are trying to work on, when it can change tomorrow, or [when] it is important that nobody knows what is going on.'"


    "I got nothing, but I don't want to admit it. Our 2-time BCS Bowling Big Brother has just accepted an invitation to the 'Conference of Champions', while we're still mid-majors. This has left us feeling smaller, and more inadequate, but since zoobies will believe anything I tell them, I'll just placate them with platitudes and phony assurances until they can invent their own that zoobie 'TrueBlue', who at 9:23 this morning, suggested that the Longhorns have some '...sort of gentleman's agreement that Texas would come to Provo sometime in the near future.' Attaboy 'TrueBlue'. That's the ticket. Keep up that arrogant and uneducated naivete characteristic that's been making my job easy all these years. GO ZOOBS!"

  • GoUtah
    July 17, 2010 3:44 p.m.

    @Jealous U

    You said: "The only reason they failed miserably this season was because the Utes were already looking ahead to next year and didn't take this year seriously."

    Earth to Zoob . . . Wow! Do you understand that it's 2010 and football hasn't started yet?

  • GoUtah
    July 17, 2010 3:26 p.m.


    Good point regarding Hawaii.

    It's odd to think that even Hawaii has been to the BCS.

    Hawaii reminds me of 2001 when they played the tds and Hawaii won that game like 158 to the tds' 40. I'm sure that wasn't the score but it's one of my favorite games, ever! Hawaii scored at will . . . too funny.

  • Buster
    July 17, 2010 3:20 p.m.

    Naval Vet | 2:48 p.m. July 17, 2010
    "Busted" Buster:

    "Sure. Zoobies have been making spurious claims that their school has been engaging in "secret talks" with both the Pac-10 [since at least the 80s] and the Big XII [since at least the mid-90s]."

    So your source is "Zoobies"?


    "“BYU is still working on strategic things,” he said when asked if any major conferences, such as the Big 12, had expressed interest in the school. “I am not going to play my hand on the things we are trying to work on, when it can change tomorrow, or [when] it is important that nobody knows what is going on.”

    Source: Tom Holmoe, Salt lake Tribune

    Now, if by secret, you mean he doesn't go to the paper on everything, or run thing by the Philadelphia Press, then you may be right.

    I think the more appropriate term might be "confidential", but words and twisted meanings aren't that important when you are working on "conspiracies"...

  • hedgehog
    July 17, 2010 2:51 p.m.

    Cougar Blues,

    TCU has much more upside then BYU. The Frogs have more money than they know what to do with. Plans to expand there football stadium and a first rate baseball program. Oh and by the way they sit on top of possibly the best talent in the country.

    TCU will be find its way into either the Big 12. SEC or Big 10 within the next two years.

    Provo is to far away from any BCS confernce except the PAC10. We all know how that worked out.

    BYU & BSU two peas in a pod.

  • Naval Vet
    July 17, 2010 2:48 p.m.

    "Busted" Buster:

    "Can you tell us more about these secret talks."

    Sure. Zoobies have been making spurious claims that their school has been engaging in "secret talks" with both the Pac-10 [since at least the 80s] and the Big XII [since at least the mid-90s].

    The "talks" have been identified as "secret" since no media group has been able to verify such allegations as ever having taken place. And despite the question that arises -- that if the media couldn't confirm it, how could random anonymous zoobies have knowledge of it? -- zoobies have embraced this folklore to explain how a team so self-reportedly desirable remains a mid-major.

    Don't mistake me as one who believes all that folderol that such discussions ever took place. That's why I used the quotation marks. Perhaps it would have been more appropriate had I enclosed "secret talks" with asterisks. I'll try that next time.

  • Juice
    July 17, 2010 2:43 p.m.

    Tom Holmoe (snicker, snicker) is not the right person to get BYU into an elite BCS Conference. He is probably a very good person, but his focus is on spreading the Gospel through the athletic programs.

    We really need an individual from a BCS school to replace Tom. This individual will know the ins and outs of a BCS Conference and will know exactly what BYU has to do to finally get an invitation.

    Utah hired Chris Hill 20 years ago with the specific instructions to do whatever is necessary to get Utah in the PAC 10.

    We can do the same at BYU with the right individual. It's time to move our program forward, not keep it stationary in the MWC.

  • GoUtah
    July 17, 2010 2:33 p.m.

    @Jealous U

    "I truly think that Utah will be out of place in the ConferenceofChampions because they aren't."

    Your Desnews name: "Jealous U" suits you!

  • Jealous U
    July 17, 2010 2:17 p.m.

    I truly think that Utah will be out of place in the ConferenceofChampions because they aren't.

    Usual finish in football 3rd (would have been 4th with BSU)

    Usual finish in basketball 6th (no change with BSU)

  • So-CalAggie
    July 17, 2010 2:07 p.m.

    speaking of USU, one thing I have not seen addressed is the fact that Utah is REQUIRED by state law to play USU in both Football and Basketball home and away unless BOTH schools agree to suspend. So unless Utah has enough power on Capitol Hill (which they probably do) to do away with law, expect the Utah/USU rivalry to continue.

  • ConferenceofChampions
    July 17, 2010 1:44 p.m.

    You guys havent even made it to a BCS game yet. Even Hawaii has made it to a BCS game.

  • Cougar Blue
    July 17, 2010 1:10 p.m.

    TCU leaving next year? Do you know what you're talking about? Texas and T A&M have already let it be known that they don't want TCU. They are afraid of the increased exposure and recruiting opportunities for the Frogs. Secondly, UT and A&M already control the DFW TV market. The Frogs have a smaller stadium also. So, they don't see any reason to split any revenue with TCU. It ain't a gonna happen, as they say in Texas. They didn't want Baylor either but the strong Baptist lobby in the Texas legislature made sure that happened.

  • ConferenceofChampions
    July 17, 2010 1:06 p.m.

    I truly think that BYU should just go towards intermural sports. I would be willing to bet that Deseret Towers vs Helamin Halls would probably fill up a good portion of LES.

  • Cougar Blue
    July 17, 2010 12:59 p.m.

    To Otis Spurlock --- You say, "let's be honest here", and then you go off on stuff you know absolutely nothing about. Only a fool thinks that Utah will be on national TV every weekend. Every pro scout team has access to the Mtn. in their complexes. Not honest. Play for a national championship esvery year? Only in your wildest imagination. Only play in the Vegas Bowl. Utah, Boise and TCU played in larger bowls and so can BYU. So truth be known to you is a lost art. Objectively, it is not the end of BYU football.

  • DocSarvis
    July 17, 2010 12:55 p.m.

    TCU will bolt the MWC next. BYU will end up 2nd in football to Boise State year after year. Not good.

  • fyre
    July 17, 2010 12:53 p.m.

    "chuckie" how does Lewis (one person) being the NFL ambassador to China...where the NFL is so popular with the indigent workers scrapping for food...make the mission of the LDS church bring education to the indigent workers?

    I go to church with people that speak a multitude of languages and went all over the world on missions and not one of them played sports at BYU..

    I have been to BYU campus many times to show my children the wonderful EDUCATIONAL facility and I have talked with students from other nations who are being given a chance to improve their lives and their family and church back in their countries.

    Who outside of those who watch KBYU and BYUTV know or care who Lewis is?

    Get a world class Soccer team and you'll reach more people around the world. But the best bang for BYU's and subsequently the LDS church's buck is educate more and spread the influence of education all around the world and ESPEcially more students form the U.S.

    Your argument using ONE person is irrelevant but I respect your thought and view.

  • Jealous U
    July 17, 2010 12:46 p.m.

    What all this bluster from Utah fans is all about is the Utes are just scared of getting beat up in every sport this year and leaving the MWC with their redtail between their legs.

    They're trying to act tough even though they're scared to death.

    Of course, they've already got their excuses ready.

    The only reason they failed miserably this season was because the Utes were already looking ahead to next year and didn't take this year seriously.

    IF the Utes had taken this year seriously, Utah would have dominated the MWC.

  • SoUtBoy25
    July 17, 2010 12:22 p.m.

    Why does BYU really care that Utah got invited? Why not work with the MWC to allow you to broadcast games on your network too. Sure its not the same type of money that BCS conferences have, but you have made it to this point competing well on a national scale. The MWC allows you to maintain your standards, compete nationally, and field competitive teams. We just need to be allowed to broadcast nationally to the hungry fans nationwide. There is no question (just ask ESPN why they love "Y" games) there is significant demand for BYU sports;leverage the current situation with the "Y" resources to continue moving Cougar sports forward on its own terms. Make up the difference by getting games across the country, feeding the fans, and asking for their financial support. It's not how much you make, but how well you manage the money you have. BYU has a long history of competing and winning against state schools simply by being more effective and efficient. Just look at almost every study and report to see how well "Y" students fair in the world against its state sponsored peers.

  • Rock Of The Marne
    July 17, 2010 12:12 p.m.

    Cougs4Life- I'd rather be in the middle of the PAC-12 (some year yes other much higher) than the middle of the MWC conference any day of the week (and BYU will at best be the third best team in the MWC as TCU has your number and BSU will as well). Face it, Utah is a team on the rise and BYU's halcyon days are in the past (1980s to be exact). I sense bit of trepidation on the part of Y fans for good reason as you really don't know at this point what direction things will go (at least if your honest with yourself). Maybe this will be good for the Y fans as a little humbling was in order (which should have been taken care, but obviously wasn’t exampled by the dribble from many Y fans, of by doing nothing of national significance in football since 1996; and even that was in a second rate bowl).

  • MUSSDad
    July 17, 2010 11:48 a.m.

    Deafmom | 10:55 a.m. July 17, 2010

    "BYU-I's degree according to a national magazine is MORE PRESTIGIOUS than a BYU-Provo degree."

    I absolutely love this!! Now BYU people can argue with BYU people about who is better. And the winner is???

    @briggsy81 | 11:25 a.m. July 17, 2010

    Great perspective...well said. In my honest opinion, BYU will be fine in the MWC and will always be a conference contender. Games with TCU and BSU will be extremely entertaining and well played. The landscape has changed a bit but so what...change can be good for all.

  • chuckie
    July 17, 2010 11:46 a.m.

    Read between the lines people....BYU goes independent where they have no contract and money penalties when they need to drop all NCAA sports and go to a full-time intramural system, like BYU Idaho, to save money and educate and spread the gospel which is the Mormon CES main goal..."

    It's just one stage of Lewis' challenge-turned- opportunity-turned-success life. In football, Lewis went from Orem High standout to BYU walk-on and later Cougar star tight end as well as from undrafted NFL free agent to a multiyear All-Pro with the Philadelphia Eagles. And in his Chinese experiences, he went from overwhelmed LDS missionary in Taiwan from 1990 to 1992 to a student and speaker of Mandarin and later to be the National Football League's ambassador to China.

    "To think the NFL would send me back there and to travel with the commissioner – it's just too good to be true," said Lewis, who first returned to Taiwan – as well as Singapore and Thailand – in his inaugural effort on the NFL's behalf in 2002 before making a half-dozen official trips since to mainland China."

    Sure, BYU will drop athletics...

  • GoUtah
    July 17, 2010 11:46 a.m.


    Ya, the Big 12 called to say that the tds *NC and big stadium that their fans brag about so much is "Irrelevant."

  • Anon374
    July 17, 2010 11:45 a.m.

    There is no rivalry with the University of Utah anymore. Maybe BYU can set up a rivalry with Utah Valley Community College or Stevens Henegar College.

  • Banzai
    July 17, 2010 11:43 a.m.

    We'll see who gets the last laugh after Utah has been competing in the PAC10 for a few years.

    What goes around comes around.

  • MOUte
    July 17, 2010 11:36 a.m.

    @Patrick | 10:43 a.m. July 17, 2010

    That's funny Pat. Please know that I found the link to this article on the DN/Home page; NOT the DN/Sports/BYU page. I have no idea what articles appear there (BYU page)nor do I care.

    As I pointed out to CG (a.k.a. Patrick) earlier..."You talk like BYU owns these articles and anyone outside of BYU caught reading them is somehow reflecting an inferiority complex. As the say, "fantasy is always better than reality." LOL!!!!!!!!

    My guess is that the Holmoe press conference didn't offer you much solace. I can certainly see why. Perhaps it would help you to acknowledge your frustration rather than attempting to transfer it to others. Just a thought...

  • briggsy81
    July 17, 2010 11:25 a.m.

    Not gonna lie, every BYU fan is disappointing me more and more every day. C'mon Provo, wake up and smell the hot cocoa: we're good but this isn't 1984. The times have changed in college football. Quit dissing the U. I've been a BYU fan all my life, and even though I hate the Utes, they rock the house in football. It's fun when we beat them, but every time they beat us or get something we didn't get (BCS bowl bids and Pac-10 invites) we whine and cry like a little brother that got snubbed by our parents. Let's all relax for a little bit and embrace our two newest rivalries that will be fun for years to come: TCU and Boise State. Those are our rivalries now. We'll still play Utah, but if we don't who cares?

  • Henry Drummond
    July 17, 2010 11:24 a.m.

    Why not just admit that BYU's athletic programs are doomed and leave it at that?

  • Cougs4Life
    July 17, 2010 11:05 a.m.

    I can sum up Utah's athletic future in four words:

    "Middle of the PAC"

    We'll look forward to seeing you compete more in the Las Vegas bowl, or continue regular return trips to the Poinsetta (where BYU has NEVER played) just like you're used to.

    As I have said before, Utah just became the "Minnesota" of the PAC.

  • Deafmom
    July 17, 2010 10:55 a.m.

    I getta a kick out of these "BYU is out becuase of Sunday Play" bloggers. When was the last time college football was played on Sunday to compete with NFL TV time? Basketball of course is played on Sunday, but I am sure MINOR schedule chnages can be arranged for that.

    Education is the REASON for a college to exist. BYU-I's degree according to a national magazine is MORE PRESTIGIOUS than a BYU-Provo degree. No intercollegiate sports in Rexburg anymore. Seems to me we've thrown the baby out with the bathwater and our focus is on Bucks rather than Education.

  • Jealous U
    July 17, 2010 10:54 a.m.

    Like their once proud basketball program, Utah's flash-in-the-pan football program will once again fade into obscurity.

    For a glimpse of Utah's future:

    see 1964 --> 1965 to 1994

    at least the Utes actually made a splash on the national scene this time, and had more than one good year, before fading back into obscurity

    to negative infinity and beyond; go Utes :P

  • Patrick
    July 17, 2010 10:43 a.m.

    Good to see MOUte posting on any article about BYU. After his self-proclaimed "I don't care about BYU" he continues to show his inferiority complex when it comes to the "team he doesn't care about" down south. Must have been a tough 40 years for you to have built up so much hatred, huh?

  • hedgehog
    July 17, 2010 10:40 a.m.

    Did the Big 12 call today?

  • GoUtah
    July 17, 2010 10:40 a.m.

    Someone needs to tell Holmoe that the tds' super big stadium and that old *NC should get them something . . .!

    *Didn't beat anybody good in 1984. Not a single AP TOP 25 ranked team at year's end.

  • Otis Spurlock
    July 17, 2010 10:27 a.m.

    Let's be truly honest for a second. BYU will just not be able to compete with a member of an elite BCS Conference in the same media market.

    Potential high school recruits will now ask themselves:

    "I can play at BYU where NFL scouts can only see me play if BYU games are televised on the Mountain, and then only if the scouts are able to get the Mountain, and only if the scouts are able stand watching the grainy and wobbly broadcast."


    "I can play at Utah where NFL scouts will be able to watch me play every single week on national television."


    "I can play at BYU where I will NEVER be able to play for a National Championship and the best I can hope for is to play in the Vegas Bowl."


    "I can play at Utah where I will be able to play for a National Championship each and every year and will be able to play in several fun and prestigous bowl games that are tied to the PAC 12."

    Objectively, it really is the beginning of the end for BYU athletics.

  • Otis Spurlock
    July 17, 2010 10:21 a.m.

    I can sum up BYU's athletic future in a few words:

    A long slow decline into obscurity.

  • MOUte
    July 17, 2010 10:11 a.m.

    @CG | 10:00 a.m. July 17, 2010

    You're the BEST, CG.

    You talk like BYU owns these articles and anyone outside of BYU caught reading them is somehow reflecting an inferiority complex. As the say, "fantasy is always better than reality." LOL!!!!!!!!

  • CG
    July 17, 2010 10:00 a.m.

    Reading between the lines I'd say the vast majority Utah bloggers who spam BYU articles are trying to convinces themselves that they aren't still BYU's little brothers.

    Some of them are so insecure that they're hoping BYU gives up sports altogether just so Utah can rid themselves of their little brother syndrome.

  • ConferenceofChampions
    July 17, 2010 9:57 a.m.

    Coug fans dont realize that Utah was the team that made the MWC relevant. What did you guys do? Just choke when you had the opportunity, A la FSU last year at home.

    You can thank us if the MWC ever gets AQ status

  • Nostradamus
    July 17, 2010 9:55 a.m.

    By the way BLUTO, what is an Ignormamous anyway. At least learn to spell if you want to insult! (hmmm, maybe it's a french catholic term).

  • DocSarvis
    July 17, 2010 9:52 a.m.

    Going independent? BYU would never be able to fill their schedule and have no conference title to play for. That would kill BYU athletics. The fact is that because BYU will not play on Sundays, they are not an option for BCS conferences. If they stay in the MWC, they stagnate, or diminish. It will be interesting to see what's more important to the LDS church and BYU. What they preach, or money.

  • MOUte
    July 17, 2010 9:50 a.m.

    @CaliforniaCougar | 9:02 a.m. July 17, 2010

    Even after all explanation from conference head and university presidents - so many of you insist it's all about wins and losses. Hmmmmmmmm...

    @Bluto | 8:09 a.m. July 17, 2010

    "The Pac Ten has always tried to convince the World that they are the "Ivy League of the West".

    Did you read your own post, Bluto? And you wonder why BYU and its fans are so highly respected that other conferences and fan bases want to be affiliated with them (BYU)???

    If you really want to know why others find BYU and its fan base so disdainful, you might start by looking in the mirror as you dish out your elitist criticism. There is little doubt in anyone's mind that BYU faithful truly seem themselves exactly as you describe.

  • Nostradamus
    July 17, 2010 9:48 a.m.

    BLUTO 8:09

    You are right...silly me. Of course with your intimate knowledge of BYU's budget you know none of the tithing paid is going toward this "world class broadcasting capability" which is a major part of the "independence" disucssion. I should have known better and feel so much better that none of our tithing dollars will go toward advancing BYU athletics...hmmm, maybe not.

    Oh yeah, and of course there are about 6 million Mormons in the US (and I am one...regardless of your infintile response) - and about 13 million worldwide. A big viewing audience if we were all BYU fans (again, we are not) that to 1.1 billion catholics world-wide and the discussion between ND and BYU become a bit more interesting.

    BLUTO or BRUTO??

  • ConferenceofChampions
    July 17, 2010 9:44 a.m.

    Rumor is the cougs are going to change the capital "Y" on their helmets to a lowercase "y" This will better reflect their standing on the national college football scene.

  • MiP
    July 17, 2010 9:40 a.m.


    You accuse the PAC-10 (and then the U) of trying to call themselves "Ivy league." My experience is that BYU folks have been declaring themselves as the "Harvard of the West" for decades, often citing references of how their undergrad studies are listed so much higher than the "competition" (i.e. Utah). Also, later in your post, it is actually you who makes the "elitist" comments.

    You accuse Ute fans as name callers then spend most of your post doing the same. Also, with regards to aliens, who is more likely to say that extraterrestrail life exists: the typical Y fan/professor or U fan/professor? Do you realize what LDS doctrine is on the matter?

    Perhaps you prefer my rebuttal. Using your logic, BYU has struggled against....the Utes. Since 2002 Utah has beaten BYU 5 of 8. The three BYU wins were for a combined 12 points, with the Y needing last second, boarderline miraculous plays in each win. If you want to be a time traveller, perhaps I should REMIND YOU Utah has a 53-34-4 record against your Cougars.

    I hold Y fans to a high standard. No hypocrisy!

  • AllSeeingEye
    July 17, 2010 9:31 a.m.

    Go on over to the Tribune and read the article (blog, I think) about what Mr. Holmoe said to the reporters and you will get a very different sense of things than the article above gives, especially about the rivalry game.

    I figured when I wrote my first post that the BYU AD was not convinced the rivalry is over.

    Good thing, too.

    Long live the rivalry!

    I believe it will actually improve when BYU gets the AQ/BSC conference affiliation BYU deserves!

  • TrueBlue
    July 17, 2010 9:23 a.m.

    Notre Dame's 2 for 2 with BYU was never finalized, and then Notre Dame decided they wasn't to play 8 home games a season, so they went looking for teams who were still willing to sign 2-1 deals - enter Utah.

    Washington cancelled the last two games of a 2 for 2 with BYU because the Huskies wanted to play easier OOC opponents like Eastern Washington.

    Alabama cancelled a return visit to BYU in the late 90's after the Cougars almost upset the Tide in Alabama.

    BYU did recently sign a game with Texas, with no return game guaranteed, but a sort of gentleman's agreement that Texas would come to Provo sometime in the near future.

    And, BYU did play Oklahoma at a "neutral" site last year.

    Scheduling home-and-home games with good OOC teams is difficult, but not impossible.

  • Portland Trail Blazers
    July 17, 2010 9:17 a.m.

    I would like to see BYU go independent.

    Utah will become the next ASU of the Pac-12... Irrelevant.

  • fyre
    July 17, 2010 9:13 a.m.

    Read between the lines people....BYU goes independent where they have no contract and money penalties when they need to drop all NCAA sports and go to a full-time intramural system, like BYU Idaho, to save money and educate and spread the gospel which is the Mormon CES main goal...

    Which is better for the LDS church? Max Hall getting national attention for spewing "Hate" or a person in Peru or Africa or Korea or etc getting an excellent college education and returning to their country and changing many lives?

    Sorry but no significant TV populations outside of Utah -especially not Oklahoma and Texas- want to see BYU play football or basketball which are the money generators.

    Maybe UVU will ramp up their programs and go into NCAA football...but it is more likely Utah will be king and USU get better and Weber maybe join the WAC...but BYU I think is on the way out and will join it's sister colleges in EDUCATION first.

  • MOUte
    July 17, 2010 9:12 a.m.

    @MUSSDad | 7:23 a.m. July 17, 2010

    "Let's face it, were it not for Utah's invite to the PAC, this Holmoe interview would never have happened."

    There's no question that if Utah had not received and accepted the PAC invite Holmoe and the BYU collective would be perfectly happy with the status quo.

  • CaliforniaCougar
    July 17, 2010 9:02 a.m.

    BYU should have the ear of Oklahoma and Texas ...

    All-time records ...

    BYU 2, Oklahoma 0
    BYU 2, Texas 0

  • TrueBlue
    July 17, 2010 9:01 a.m.

    Sorry MOUte, BYU hasn't been backed into "no Sunday play"; conference rules are changed all the time to accommodate conference members.

    If the Big 12 decides that playing conference tournaments on Thu, Fri, Sat instead of Fri, Sat, Sun is changing to include BYU in the conference, that's what they'll do.

    It's really not that big a deal.

    Individual teams could still schedule games on Sunday, although, that seldom happens anyway.

  • Cougar Blue
    July 17, 2010 8:57 a.m.

    My vote is to strenghen the MWC and go from there. Utah got in, that's fine. I don't want to be lumped into a conference with a money dominant Texas. I still think that somewhere in the back of somebodies mind, that Kansas, some of Texas, and another place are in the mix. Still some interesting things going to happen I feel. If the PAC 10 didn't want us, then we don't want them. And please, if you think Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer, and whoever that other person was that a poster before mentioned has anything to do with it, you need to get a grip. That is plain ignorant and does nothing to further our cause.

  • PAC Member, are U?
    July 17, 2010 8:43 a.m.

    To quote the great Bugs Bunny, "fair thee well, fair thee well" little brother who never graduated. I hope we never see the "mid-major" tds again in our PAC 12 stadium.

  • GoUtah
    July 17, 2010 8:38 a.m.

    Here . . . let me summarize this article: Oh, Oh, me to, me to, please, please, please . . .

    Too little, too late!

  • Cougar Blue
    July 17, 2010 8:23 a.m.

    Some of you fans don't have very long memories. Wasn't just in the last year we found out that Notre Dame, Washington, and Alabama have bought out or cancelled or whatever they do games with the Cougars. Some of you act like, oh well, just pick up the phone and give 'em an invite. That's why Tom is there and we are out here.

  • MiP
    July 17, 2010 8:17 a.m.


    1) Utes will be in "South" division of PAC-10 and play each of those 5 teams once (USC, UCLA, ASU, Zona, and Colorado). They will play 3 cross-divisional games, alternating year and location. This still leaves them 4 non-con games.

    There would be no reason (except in the rare circumstance Notre Dame calls) that they would not schedule the Aggies or Cougars.

    The rivalries will continue, kids.

    2) BYU will not get into the "Big-12". The Texas administators will not want to share. More likely, the MWC will get an automatic bid to the BCS bowls.

    Eventually, BYU will probably get to one. But just because you don't doesn't mean your season is a failure. Both Y and U fans like to have it both ways. Y fans continue to say the Utes have had only 2 good seasons (BCS bowls). Yet they ignore the 9 consecutive bowl wins (NCAA record) as well as several double-digit win seasons. By that criteria, BYU would have NEVER had a "good" season. Which is, of course, silly.

    Good luck Holmoe.

    Go Utes!

  • MOUte
    July 17, 2010 8:15 a.m.

    chuckie | 12:52 a.m. July 17, 2010

    Hey chuck...take a look around you. Your usual diatribe is woefully out of place on this board. We are actually discussing strategy and being in / out of conference invites and what the next move should be.

    Try to make the adjustment.

  • VegasCoug
    July 17, 2010 8:11 a.m.

    @Chris B


    4th best team in the MWC(Air Force is improving and TCU and BSU will win 9 out of 10 against tds)"

    Falcons will supplant BYU, huh? I think you're confusing BYU's performance against AFA with the Utes. Bronco is 5-0 against AFA winning in blowout fashion every year (average score 40-21 with AFA never challenging once -- closest they came to Bronco was losing by 14).

    Meanwhile, Kyle is 4-1 against AFA with every game played against the Falcons being a total struggle (average score 24-22, with 7 pts being the largest margin of victory).

    You see, I think these PAC Utes have forgotten the history. Let me remind you guys of how things have played out the last 4 decades:

    BYU as a program has finished ahead of Utah outright over 30 times in the last 40 years.

    Furthermore, Kyle has only finished ahead of Bronco in the conference standings ONCE. That's right, Bronco has finished ahead of Kyle 4 of the 5 years they've been competing.

    Of course, "2 BCS bowls" and "we got invited to the PAC" will be the rebuttal... yawn

  • Bluto
    July 17, 2010 8:09 a.m.


    You being a French Catholic, I sincerely doubt that you have ever paid LDS Tithing. And if you had, you would know that Tithing is not used for Athletics.

    Nostradamus or Ignormamous?

    The Pac Ten has always tried to convince the World that they are the "Ivy League of the West". They have such a condescending smugness and aura of self annointed elitism that it is just funny.

    The Utes have now adopted this attitude. Phony and self imposed as it may be. After all, everyone knows all about the great intellectual enclaves of Pullman Washington, Tempe Arizona, Corvalis Oregon etc.

    The fact is, BYU academically, out ranks the U in just about every comparable category. The U has the Med School and research dollars, which are basically government grants.

    The U not only can't match BYU's Conference Championships over the last 40 years, in Academic rankings they rank below the Y, as do half of the Pac 10 schools.

    It's about "Culture"! That's why the U is in and BYU is not. And sorry to burst the U fans bubbles...but, BYU and it's fans are OK with that too.

  • mussingaround
    July 17, 2010 7:48 a.m.

    70% of LES = 100% of RES

    It's gotta be embarassing for a "BCS" team to live in the shadow of a "non-BCS" team.

    65,000 MUCH GREATER THAN 45,000

  • MOUte
    July 17, 2010 7:34 a.m.

    Regarding the Big 12, I have a question for BYU fans...

    Doug Robinson recently made an issue of BYU playing on Sunday. A BYU poster the board accompanying that article identified that the MWC is the ONLY conference that does not sanction athletic events on Sunday.

    So, now that BYU has been backed into the "no Sunday play" corner, how could BYU possibly accept an invite to the Big 12????


  • MUSSDad
    July 17, 2010 7:23 a.m.

    @Howard S. | 8:18 p.m. July 16, 2010
    @Howard S. | 8:24 p.m. July 16, 2010
    @Howard S. | 8:46 p.m. July 16, 2010
    @Howard S. | 11:11 p.m. July 16, 2010

    Howard, your posts capture the same thoughts I had as I read this article. Reading your comments was like running down a checklist and I think you nailed it.

    @CougarOnTheProwl | 10:36 p.m. July 16, 2010
    "So what your saying is it took utah 20 years to finally convince someone to let them in."

    If you had watched the conference when Utah accepted the PAC invite you would understand that Dr. Hill put a strategy in place when he took the reins of Utah's athletic program and worked to bring that strategy to fruition.

    Holmoe claims he has been "working on it for three years." The quagmire in which he finds himself is that Utah suddenly has what BYU wants and Holmoe doesn't know what to do. Let's face it, were it not for Utah's invite to the PAC, this Holmoe interview would never have happened. Holmoe has been thrown back on his heels.

  • BYU84
    July 17, 2010 7:20 a.m.

    The future is bright for BYU. BYU fans just need to be patient.

    Just like the disappointment of missing out on an undefeated season, because of a missed chip shot field in 1979, led to the thrill of a season ending Miracle Bowl in 1980.

    Just like the disappointment of losing the season opener in 1983, led to an undefeated season and a national championship in 1984.

    The disappointment of seeing Utah winning BCS games before BYU and going to the PAC 10, will lead to even greater accomplishments for the Cougars.

    What's really amazing is how bitter and jealous Utah fans still are of BYU's 30 years of football success. Nothing speaks little brother like the Utah fans who spam every BYU article with their childish drivel. Dispite all of the success Utah has had over the past half dozen years, Utah fans continue to act like insecure little children.

    No matter how much success Utah has, Utah will always be BYU's little brother, until Utah's fans stop acting like little brothers.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad
    July 17, 2010 6:29 a.m.

    "We shall see."

    It is, after all, why they play the game.

    And you are right, I think the boys in (true) blue have a healthy respect for TCU and BSU. And Air Force. And CSU, Wyo and UNLV for that matter.

    But if the recent past, which is the only thing that really matters, right?, has anything to do with it, we are not too worried about Utah.

    Whether you dominate from the outset, or whether you grow into it, Utah will do fine in the PAC. But don't bet against the Y. That's a losing bet 3 out of 4.

    Or if you prefer, 3 out of 5.

  • DC
    July 17, 2010 6:28 a.m.

    Holmoe hasn't done anything this summer? They're in the middle of things? What? What about all the work Lavell did for 20+ years? Down the tubes? They suddenly started to position themselves for a BCS conference when Bronco came on board? Ugh. Incredibly passive. Holmoe is waiting for a call from the Big 12/Texas/OU...he hasn't done any real outreach but possibly send the Big 12 commish a dvd of BYU's past football season highlights.

  • hedgehog
    July 17, 2010 5:20 a.m.

    Holmoe quote: "On the other hand, we're not Notre Dame."

    I agree BYU is not even close to being on the same level an ND ( take note delusional kewg fan).

    Homoe quote: "We can't make demands, and we don't have multiple invitations."

    Can't make demands? No University makes more demands and gives less back than the TDS.

    Y did holmoe use the word MULTIPLE? Y must he sugarcoat that fact that tds has never been offered (and never will) be invited to a BCS conference.

  • chuckie
    July 17, 2010 2:48 a.m.

    Chris B | 11:52 p.m.

    Do you ever notice how Chris B no clue about what is happening right now, but has a firm grip on next year.


    Naval? Left out?

    Wow, the two greatest fears of a kindergarten student. Being called names, and being left out...

    You must of had a difficult life as a child.

    Now you are stuck in philly, and again you are left out from your greatest acceptance, the U, a University you could attend.

    Your projecting those exact fears on BYU fans,

    They are not kids, but adults. They don't call names, and they have friends.

    As am adult, I'm OK, the Pac was never going to take BYU with the whole Prop 8 thing. An LDS Church being invited when any Pac school could veto it.
    there was no way.

    We're not left out. were in the MWC. We have a huge stadium, and a great team that beat your mid major team 3 of 4, and owned you in basketball.

    Try not to project your fears of vunerability.

    Now, back to secret talks and hunting for ufo's and aliens.

  • Cougars --Best Little Brothers
    July 17, 2010 2:44 a.m.

    1) Tom Homoe did not offer any answers that have not been public. So this article serves nothing new. More like another article to soothe the unrest Cougar fans who are jealous that Utah is a major now.
    2) It's good to hear that BYU still has goal of BCS --keep working guys, may be BYU can still be relevant after TCU game. It'd be an improvement if they can stay off being irrelevant until after Utah's game. One step at a time.
    3) I am not sure Utah should take 2-1 deal unless BYU is in Big-12.

  • Duds
    July 17, 2010 1:31 a.m.

    TDS (Team Down South) and NBT (Northern Beer Tippers) Just thought I'd throw the Y fans a bone since the Ute fans treat BYU as if they can't actually say it's name. I feel like I'm watching a bad Harry Potter movie, "he who must not be named".

    Don't read too much into Holmoe's comments. Not a lot of new information for Utah fans to over analyze while they're sitting in their mother's basement or not working at work while waiting to troll these comment pages (Howard S. its Summer, enjoy it). BYU fans, stop clinging to some hope that Texas will sweep you off your feet into a central timezone lalaland. Its gonna take some time, but both schools will be fine, even you BYU.

    Time to put the rivalry to bed and we can all start to hate the Lakers together.

  • chuckie
    July 17, 2010 1:21 a.m.


    Can you tell us more about these secret talks. i know you are a huge "conspiricy theory" guy, but these secret talks.

    Where were they held? Between whom (real people, not men in trench coats -- names? Can you be more precise on the time of the talks, other than decades?

    Oh, and I amazed how you are able to spend so much time worrying about BYU athletics with so many aliens out there.

  • Munk
    July 17, 2010 1:15 a.m.

    Frankly I would like to see BYU become as successful as they can be in regards to the BCS. It is a fine university with a good history. Now, myself, being a Utahn but not having gone to BYU or UU I can say this; Both schools can play one mean game of good football. The fans of both schools can get rowdy and obnoxious in their own ways. ON the same ticket however, I have seen some of the best conduct in sports. from fans at these games.

    Now personaly I would like to see BYU in the Pac10 - 12- 16 or whatever it may become. They are good enough to make an impact..

    Then again... for me.. Go DUCKS.

  • chuckie
    July 17, 2010 1:12 a.m.

    Naval Vet | 7:37 p.m.

    You made that up. What a pathetic little zoob you are.

    Who taught you that it was appropriate to talk to other people that way? I do not understand why the moderators continue to let you post such abusive, offensive language.


    A.D. Holmoe did not come out earlier because there was no news, and apparently there still is not. It's not a newsy time of year for college football. What he did say is that BYU is working on it.

    No way BYU was going to the PAC because of the LDS Church. Did you think that Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer or Diane Feinstein (and friends at the Universities) are going to let the chuch that stopped Prop 8-- join the PAC? No way, instant Veto.

    So BYU was not "left out"! BYU just didn't sell out. BYU kept to the belief system that marriage is between a man and a woman, and their refusal to "play" on the Sabbath cost them.

    There is no better reason to play like the Sons of Helaman.

    Victorious we will be. If you live your life right, good things happen... (see last year)

  • BYU still rules
    July 17, 2010 1:12 a.m.

    With all the smack talk from both Aggie and Ute fans I wonder why either school would want to play a poor team like BYU! Probably because they don't want to lose their one sell-out for the season. As much as Utah fans talk about how "big time" their program is now, the BYU game would still be the biggest game of the year for them and the team. I say take that option away from them and play a BCS team that beating would actually mean something to anybody outside of Utah.

  • chuckie
    July 17, 2010 12:52 a.m.

    Last Year BYU -- Utah

    Better education (Bloomberg Businessweek)

    Higher valued diploma (77-281)

    Better student athletes (108-65)

    More MWC (mid-major) titles (9-1) 2009-2010 season

    Swept Utah in football and basketball in mid-major conference

    More continous seasons nationally ranked (BYU 4--Utah 2)

    BYU higher national ranking in football 3 of the past 4 years (actully Utah was only ranked two of those years.)

    Basketball team winning in the NCAA tournament vs. not even a CBI invite.

    3rd in Football (behind BYU)

    Weak tie for 5th in Basketball (swept by BYU).

    1 MWC title in Womens Tennis (quickly to last against Universities that have year round sun).

    Recruits can choose playing in the PAC can pick Beach Cities, or the cold tram rides through snow in the winter.

    Bottom line is Utah has nothing to show for last year. Utah fans hate the past, because it gets so ugly for them, but it can't compare to how bad last year was for the Utes.

    Up until now the mantra was "2 BCS". Now it's PAC. But what did U do on the fields of play that have you over here talkin' smack?


  • redfeather
    July 17, 2010 12:34 a.m.

    I can see why Utah fans are so concerned about LES reaching 70%: that's just about the size of RES at 100%.

    Put in terms of letter grades, a C grade in attendance at the Y, is about the same as an A grade at the U.

  • nechochwen
    July 17, 2010 12:22 a.m.


    Utah and BYU should now play in a neutral site like CU and CSU did. How about Sam Boyd? Oh wait... They probably will meet each year in the awesome Las Vegas Bowl! (Also, wouldn't it be weird to play twice in a season?)

    USU is the real loser in all of this. They'll hardly get to play either of them anymore. Now that Boise is gone, could Anderson get them to a BCS game before BYU? And does anyone agree with me that it's potentially easier for non-AQ teams to reach a BCS game?

    I don't see BYU doing anything now until it's official whether or not the AQ bid is going to the MWC. If it does, they stay. If it doesn't, say bye-bye to the MWC. Hello independence, unless the Big 12 says come join the party.

    I think Utah going to the PAC is sweet. Their message boards are a joke towards Utah and I can't wait for the Utes to stick it to these arrogant pie-holes. At least be good enough to play BYU in the Las Vegas Bowl.

  • BYU84
    July 17, 2010 12:20 a.m.

    The future for BYU football is bright. Just have patience BYU fans and remember.

    The disappointment of missing an undefeated 1979 season because of a missed chip shot field goal, led to the thrill of a Miracle Bowl finish in 1980.

    The disappointment of a season-opening loss in 1983, led to an undefeated season and a National Championship in 1984.

    BYU has had three decades of successful football. Utah has had a half dozen years of succsss. Good for them. Let them enjoy their success. It really has nothing to do with BYU.

    It's puzzling, though, to see so many negative comments from Utah fans. Are Utah fans really that insecure?

  • Howard S.
    July 17, 2010 12:04 a.m.

    "We're in an unusual position of being in the middle of things, but not on the internal area of things."


    Is Holmoe channeling his internal Karl Malone?

    Classic BYU nonsense.

  • Howard S.
    July 16, 2010 11:58 p.m.

    Veritas Aequitas | 11:42 p.m. July 16, 2010
    "Just sit back and watch how it plays out.

    We shall see.

    BYU is, was, and will be in good hands."


    In good hands and on the outside looking in... with a 70% season ticket renewal rate.

    The reality is that the motivation behind Holmoe's was to sell some season tickets.

    We shall see is right. We shall see if they break the 70% renewal rate.

  • Naval Vet
    July 16, 2010 11:58 p.m.


    "BYU will get in, they have far too good of a long standing tradition to be left out..."

    Actually, ybU has a long standing tradition OF being left out.

    You got left out of the Pac-8 when they expanded in the 70s.

    You got left out of the Pac-10 despite an alleged decade of "secret talks" in the 80s.

    You got left out of the Pac-10 despite ANOTHER alleged decade of "secret talks" in the 90s.

    You got left out of the Big-8 when they decided to expand in '96 [although you were never really considered in the first place, you WANTED it; they didn't want you; left out].

    Despite a THIRD decade of alleged "secret talks", you got left out of the Pac-10 AGAIN when they actually DID expand last month.

    Even after 2 fmr-Big XII teams vacated their membership slots last month, and despite EVEN MORE alleged "secret talks" with the Big XII, you got left out again.

    The tdS has been consistently been left out for 32 yrs. Now THAT's what I call "tradition"!

    Good luck in the mid-majors. Hahahahaha!

    Go zoobs.

  • Utahute72
    July 16, 2010 11:55 p.m.

    As a Ute fan I wish BYU the best going forward. Hopefully they can get somewhere where they have a shot at an auto bid. I do think the rivalry can benefit from a few years off to let it simmer down a bit.

  • Chris B
    July 16, 2010 11:52 p.m.


    4th best team in the MWC(Air Force is improving and TCU and BSU will win 9 out of 10 against tds)

    It's a good time to be a Ute, and never a good time to be a tds fan.

    Serious possiblity of going .500 this coming year, with 30 point losses to TCU, FSU and Utah all but guaranteed.

    Oh how sweet it is

  • Veritas Aequitas
    July 16, 2010 11:42 p.m.

    Howard S. | 11:02 p.m.
    "Utah has been positioning itself for 20 years to be ready to jump when the opportunity presented itself."

    Really, twenty years?

    I'll put it like this. PAC was never an option for an LDS backed school. It doesn't mean that BYU will never be in an AQ conference. Who knows, BCS might be a thing of the past in 4 years.

    Just sit back and watch how it plays out.

    We shall see.

    BYU is, was, and will be in good hands.

  • kunit
    July 16, 2010 11:40 p.m.

    Y'all r funny, BYU fans can't keep the Utes out of the conversation and the same goes for the other! Are you sure you want the rivalry dead? what on earth will you have to talk about then? No Championship this, no BCS that! Im better then you! 9 of 12! 41 of 62! hooorahhh! blah blah blah (chest thump!)

    I love the rivalry! I hope it continues most of us have a good time with it. Its like the state of Utah's own super bowl but it always is a lot more fun when the UTES win!;)

  • Stenar
    July 16, 2010 11:26 p.m.

    Utah State ... is the future of BYU. Irrelevant.

  • Howard S.
    July 16, 2010 11:11 p.m.

    Holmoe speaks and reveals nothing about the future of the BYU athletic program.

    Seriously, does anyone know more about the Cougar program now than before the big press conference?

  • AllSeeingEye
    July 16, 2010 11:02 p.m.

    To Seven S. Jarvis--I just don't see how continuing to schedule the BYU/Utah game is a waste. Very recently BYU has complained about not being able to schedule 1/1 games with Division 1 opponents. I just don't believe anyone at Utah has requested a 2/1 set up.

    The BYU v. Utah game does mean something. It always means something, whenever it is played. Lately the game has been very exciting. The USC/Notre Dame game means something, regardless of when it is played. Those teams don't play in the same conference.

    To Michigan Coog--BYU deserves better than the MWC. Everyone knows that, even 5th graders with law degrees. Even 11 year olds know that the MWC's TV contract payout, automatic bowl tie-in, lack of exposure, etc., don't do BYU justice--unless things change, which they might.

    No question that BYU deserves to be in a AQ conference. None.

    Don't think that going independent is the right answer, although if that's what BYU wants to do more power to them. Might work for football.

    If BYU does go independent, scheduling the rivalry game should be a cinch.

  • Howard S.
    July 16, 2010 11:02 p.m.

    Re: CougarOnTheProwl | 10:36 p.m. July 16, 2010

    Cougars have spent the last 26 years resting on their 1984 laurels. When the dominoes started to fall they were caught flat footed and got left out.

    Utah has been positioning itself for 20 years to be ready to jump when the opportunity presented itself.

    Utes = In

    Cougars = Out (rise and shout...)

  • Go Big Blue!!!
    July 16, 2010 10:54 p.m.

    The y will be eating the Utes dust looking at the U's tail lights. Money isn't everything, but when Utah is making 4 times the conference revenue as the Y it is going to make a big impact.

  • CougarOnTheProwl
    July 16, 2010 10:36 p.m.

    Howard S. | 8:46 p.m. July 16, 2010

    Tom's been working on expansion for three years?


    Chris Hill and a series of Utah Presidents worked on conference expansion for 20 years.

    Take heart BYU fans, only 17 more years to go.

    So what your saying is it took utah 20 years to finally convince someone to let them in. And lets not forget they only got in because the big 12 decided not to break up and leave for the pac-10. BYU will get in, they have far too good of a long standing tradition to be left out, they just have to wait for the right opportunity. Not all conferences can keep making lame excuses just because BYU stands for what they believe in and wont play on sundays.

  • MichiganCoog
    July 16, 2010 10:24 p.m.

    I like many UTES have said, it will be cool to see the PAC12 teams come to RES, and kick the stuffins out of that average program on the hill...Yes, average Utes. Read it an weep. Now that you have tough games week in and week out with the likes of USC, UCLA, and up-and-coming Washington, Oregon and Oregon State. Yes, you'll win your fair share of games at RES. But, on the road we'll see how this turns out. 1-10 since the 1994 season against PAC10 teams is down-right pathetic. Pray that you get your easy opponents like ASU and WSU on the road, and get the toughies at home. But you know something, that aint gonna happen. So, with anyone with a brain between their ears, will see that based on historical evidence, the best season your UTES can plan on seeing is at most 8-4, which will qualify you for your typical trip to the Poinsetta Bowl, or to the Las Vegas Bowl; no different than your typical 3 place finish in the MWC. Pray that the moons continue to align for you like the 2008 season!

  • optimist
    July 16, 2010 10:24 p.m.

    I would like to see BYU, TCU Air Force and Boise State all go Independent and join Notre Dame, Navy and Army. Add SMU, Baylor and Houston.

    Notre Dame------------------------Navy
    BYU-------------------------------Air Force

    SMU------------------------------ Boise State
    Baylor--------------------------- Houston

    As an independent broadcast all of our sporting events from BYUTV and BYU Radio.

  • optimist
    July 16, 2010 10:18 p.m.

    To me, the KSL newsconference with AD Tom Holmoe was very dissapointing. So much for his past comments, "Great opportunities that did not exist last week"; "Things may settle for a little bit,but there's opportunities -great opportunities for BYU that did not exist a week ago". New doors are opening" In my opinion, he spent too much time telling us nothing and no time at all telling us what doors have been opened that were not open before Utah was invited to the Pac 10/12.

  • MichiganCoog
    July 16, 2010 10:11 p.m.

    Ok you 5th graders who chear for the Utes, please take your annoying selves, and go get stomped by WSU. Your 11 year old behaviors is getting old. I for one am tired of this so-called rivalry is quite borish...Take for instance BYU dominance since Bronco and Kyle came along...BCS this BCS that, head-to-head, BYU is far superior, when talking Football (3 out of 4), Basketball (7 out of 8), and all the other sports, except for Women's Gymnastics and Skiing. Good luck to you Utes fans, enjoy your continued 3-5 place finishes, with your occasional years of success (2 BCS victories). However, those appearances will be a thing of the past anyway. Once either TCU or BSU goes undefeated this year, and makes the BCS, along w/ BYU (more than likely) achieving that feat in either 2011 or 2012; then the AQ status will come sooner rather than later to the MWC. And, if it doesn't, then either Big12 expands and takes BYU or they take the independant route in Football. With their own TV station already in existance and a new studio nearly completed, the coogs are all set!

  • jazzbball
    July 16, 2010 9:55 p.m.

    @Boringguy I'm glad you have such an unbiased opinion. You're clearly the voice of reason here.

  • Andrew J. Marksen
    July 16, 2010 9:51 p.m.

    BYU is in an interesting position. They have a great broadcast facility but the MWC contract prohibits the use of it. They have a national following but can not fully tap into it. The rivalry may die but who really gives a crap? I would not waste a game on Utah State the R.O.I. is simply not worth it. Independence? Not in this decade or the next. The Big 12? Not likely. The MWC to be the second biggest fish in a small pond? Done deal.

    As a fan I have to look for the up side. I will enjoy my season tickets to both schools. It will be nice to not have to suffer through Colorado State, Wyoming, New Mexico, and SDSU when I can see USC, UCLA, Stanford, and Washington. Plus I can see the one or two big name teams BYU brings in. It is a win/win for any fan of college football.

  • Hellooo
    July 16, 2010 9:43 p.m.

    If people watch good football then why would they ever watch college football. No people watch because they support the institution and they love to win. BYU if it keeps winning will be fine, which is, also, the case for Utah. I can not think, except for the media, any one that watches because of the conference. Of course, the conference does provide more dollar, but they are soon more than spent.

  • BoringGuy
    July 16, 2010 9:21 p.m.

    RealityCheck: "I wouldn't mind seeing the rivalry go. The behavior by BYU fans has gotten truly disturbing."

    I agree...not only have BYU fans gotten out of control, but we've seen that BYU players can't handle the rivalry either.

    The behaivor and comments of Max Hall, Austin Collie, the flag incident, etc. show that it's time to take a time out so Cougar fans can settle down and get a handle on things so we can return civil compeition.

  • Naval Vet
    July 16, 2010 9:12 p.m.

    "The BYU/Utah rivalry has lost its luster...let Utah go. I am...just not interested in watching BYU play Utah." -- Informed Voter

    "What the sportswriter should have have asked is whether BYU would ever consider doing a 3-1 with Utah." -- MUSSing with U

    "...personally I can think of 20-30 teams I would rather see come into LES to see other than Utah." -- football43

    Haha! Even though the Utes haven't played a down of Pac-12 football yet, tdS fans are already showing their intimidation. Hey football43...would Northern Iowa, Eastern Washington, and Nevada be on that list of 30?

    The model has been set.

  • TheCanuck
    July 16, 2010 9:06 p.m.


    "Holmoe offers few real answers and lot of BYU double talk.

    "We're in an unusual position of being in the middle of things, but not on the internal area of things."

    What??? What in the world does that mean?"

    This means that BYU has not been offered any conference memberships that they would consider and upgrade from the current MWC deal.

    BYU is positioning themselves to be in a new conference but don't have the 'cred' to do it without BCS bowl wins.

    BYU is on the outside looking inward basically.

  • Steven S Jarvis
    July 16, 2010 9:01 p.m.

    @all seeing eye

    BYU doesn't want to waste important non-conference games on local schools because they don't increase national exposure. It isn't an issue with filling the stadium either. With Utah St. already penciled in it would be very difficult to waste a second of these games for a local team.

    The Utah game had great meaning because it meant something. Championships and national rankings were on the line as it ended the regular season. Putting it in August or early September just doesn't feel right.

    The reporter suggesting a 2 for 1 was likely PK. Neither BYU nor Utah would ask the other for such a deal.

    Utah will be fine. They are a solid program and can play with anyone. I would be shocked if they miss bowls.

    BYU will be fine. I just wish they had more exciting games. Wyoming and New Mexico games are just bland.

  • BoringGuy
    July 16, 2010 8:54 p.m.

    BYU doesn't have any good options right now. Sorry guys, all you can do is sit tight and hope the addition of BSU will get you an auto-bid -- which isn't likely.

    We'll see you at the RES for 2 for 1's.

  • Howard S.
    July 16, 2010 8:46 p.m.

    Tom's been working on expansion for three years?


    Chris Hill and a series of Utah Presidents worked on conference expansion for 20 years.

    Take heart BYU fans, only 17 more years to go.

  • football43
    July 16, 2010 8:35 p.m.

    No disrespect, but personally I can think of 20-30 teams I would rather see come into LES to see other than Utah. I am sure there are Utah fans who would rather have another team come to RES than BYU.

    As for the pathetic fans on both sides. Here is my take from living here in Utah and going to both stadiums. The pathetic BYU fans are obnoxious. The pathetic Utah fans are crude.

    Holmoe, kiss the rivalry goodby. Get other BCS teams than Utah to come into LES. Schedule road trips to BCS teams with a destination.

  • Nostradamus
    July 16, 2010 8:32 p.m.

    Good post TA26...although I am not a fan of BYU Broadcasting and I don't think there is a large enough base to make televising via that media worthwhile...I DO agree that BYU deserves to be in a AQ Conference.

  • ThunderBell
    July 16, 2010 8:29 p.m.

    Rivalry issues:

    Limited number of non-league games.

    Do Utah and BYU both still try to play Utah State?

    BYU and Utah have been home one year and away the next - who gets the home game in 2011? I heard Utah wants it and BYU is saying no "Let's keep the rotation." (that's where the 2 - 1 may come in).

    If BYU has a chance to schedule non-league with Oklahoma or Texas or Ohio State or ??? in any given year why would they schedule Utah?

    If Utah is gearing up for a tough PAC-10 schedule each year how many potential non-league losses will they schedule - especially away from home?

    If BYU is seeking national exposure shouldn't they play as many non-league games as possible with big name schools in the Mid-west, South and East?

    In Florida there is political pressure for games between Florida, Florida State and Miami. No such pressure exists between Utah / Utah State and BYU. (Well maybe between Utah and Utah State - both state universities).

    It may be different in Basketball and other sports but the future football rivalry may only exist in the minds of the fans.

  • Howard S.
    July 16, 2010 8:24 p.m.

    "... we don't have multiple invitations..."

    Doesn't that suggest that there is at least one invitation?

    Spill the beans Tom, which major conference invite did BYU decline?

    Or is it just more BYU double talk?

  • flex
    July 16, 2010 8:23 p.m.

    The big 12 is on life support!!....So no more talk of BYU going there. How long do you think those lesser schools are gonna settle to play second fiddle to Texas? Only a matter of time before one gets restless and all the dominoes fall.
    I was first to mention BYU going independent!..It's all set up perfectly for BYU. They could schedule alot more top collegiate football programs if they were INDIE, instead of their set conference cupcakes.

    Love them or hate them, scheduling BYU brings out a reaction from Athletic programs. The main reaction of course is YES!..we want to PLAY BYU! With their fan base and deep pockets, BYU is ready to go independent. It is so obvious! No conference wants the headache of dealing with BYU'S moral standards. So..come on Holmoe!

  • Howard S.
    July 16, 2010 8:18 p.m.

    Holmoe offers few real answers and lot of BYU double talk.

    "We're in an unusual position of being in the middle of things, but not on the internal area of things."

    What??? What in the world does that mean?

  • ta26
    July 16, 2010 8:13 p.m.

    As a BYU fan I am, of course, frustrated with Utah's entry into the Pac-10. However, I know that Utah deserves it. That said, everybody should also acknowledge that BYU equally deserves an invitation into a BCS Conf. Both football programs are deserving, as are the other sports programs. A BCS conference invitation is a recognition of the entire institution's programs, not just one sport. So, to BYU fans, hold your heads high and don't say stupid things. To U fans, have fun in the Pac-10, but don't you dare pretend that BYU doesn't deserve the same treatment. One day the Y will get into the BCS as well.

  • jazzbball
    July 16, 2010 7:51 p.m.

    lol....2 for 1 with utah??? Yeah,

  • Naval Vet
    July 16, 2010 7:37 p.m.


    "For years BYU has included Utah in it's plans and turned down invites because it didn't benefit both programs."

    You made that up. The tdS has NEVER turned down invitations to join other conferences. What a pathetic little zoob you are.

  • hedgehog
    July 16, 2010 7:35 p.m.

    hey Tom, did the Big 12 call today?

    crickets crickets crickets

  • owlmaster2
    July 16, 2010 7:34 p.m.

    To the faithful, may I mention someone once said, As ye judge, ye shall be judged.
    I have and have had season tickets at the U for years and quite frankly some of the bYu fans can be pretty crude and horribly obnoxious. Most however have been very pleasant and courteous.
    Don't throw too many rocks inside your glass houses Y fans.
    You don't do your church any favors with your attitudes and comments.

  • Naval Vet
    July 16, 2010 7:33 p.m.


    A "2 for 1" is contracted agreement to play 2 games at one school's stadium, but will only play 1 game at the other school.

    It's sort of like what ybU does with Utah State. In the last 30 yrs, the "why?" was only willing to play 9 games in Logan compared to the 15 gtimes the games were played in Provostan.

  • RepresentBlue
    July 16, 2010 7:27 p.m.


    IF (big IF) BYU were lucky enough to be invited to join the Big 12 they would not be making any demands to have their own network like Texas. Texas gets what Texas wants because without Texas there is no Big 12. BYU probably could (and should, IMO) demand the MWC allowed them to broadcast their own games on KBYU, but the Big 12 is a whole different story where BYU would have ZERO clout and would be just lucky to be there.

  • AllSeeingEye
    July 16, 2010 7:24 p.m.

    Can someone please explain why Mr. Holmoe would refer to the rivalry in the past tense? Is he quoted correctly on this?

    Utah has maintained its rivalry with Utah State through the years, regardless of whether the schools have been in the same conference. There is no reason why this can't be done with BYU. Both teams will have a consistent number of non-conference games to schedule each year.

    Why not keep playing each other? Would either school rather play Northern Iowa?

    I sincerely don't get it.

    No one would miss the boorish behavior of a tiny percentage of fans on both sides -- but those folks will be around regardless.

    Someone please explain why BYU's AD would not simply go about the business of keeping the rivalry alive? It would be best for both schools.

  • RepresentBlue
    July 16, 2010 7:11 p.m.


    Good post.

  • Elgabacho
    July 16, 2010 7:09 p.m.

    It's great to know the AD knows the Mtn. was a bad deal.

    BYU games through BYUTV would be awesome as long as other networks could carry the important games when they wanted.

    @3grandslams- I'm not sure what world you are living in. BYU needs to win a couple BCS bowls.

  • RepresentBlue
    July 16, 2010 7:08 p.m.

    The best thing BYU can do right now is continue to schedule games against Big-12 teams. The Oklahoma game last year did more for BYU football than a decade of playing against teams from the Pac-10. The Texas game next year is another great move that will benefit BYU in the long run even if it is not a home and home deal. As far as going independent - it was HUGE to read an official statement from a BYU AD publicly confirming that the option has been and continues to be studied. In many ways it does make sense for BYU to go independent if they can broadcast BYU athletics on KBYU television which can reach the homes of church members all over the country. Having lived on the east coast I know from experience how much members of the church outside of the western states crave that connection to the church. It was a common thing to see members gather at the stake center on Saturdays to watch BYU football games broadcast by satellite.

  • Nostradamus
    July 16, 2010 7:05 p.m.

    You BYU fans are kidding...right? Huge following...if every member ofnthe Church cared about BYU (which we don't) it still wouldn't add up to a HUGE following. People watch good football, not whining Quarterbacks and Spoiled wide receivers.

    BYU going independent is insane. I hope my tithing dollars don't go to this losing endeavor, cloaked as "athletics furthering the mission of the school."

  • joek
    July 16, 2010 6:55 p.m.

    First of all I don't think Utah asked for a 2-1 I think that a reporter asked if BYU would consider it, so it didn't come from Utah. Second, Utah is not going to tank in the Pac-12/10, they will do just fine Thanks. Third, BYU has never turned down offers because they were looking out for Utah (what are you talking about???). Fourth, BYU will do just fine. Fifth, why do you have to put down Utah to make yourself feel better? Sixth, why do you have to put down BYU to make yourself feel better?

  • Bugoff
    July 16, 2010 6:54 p.m.

    The Texas arrangement is the future for the strong teams with national followings. They have the Big 12, its contract and revenues plus they can do their own network.

    BYU should work to get a similar arrangement. If BYU joined the Big 12 they would have the same arrangement. If they could rework their arrangement with the MTN so they could use their own network and the MTN that might also be acceptable.

  • RealityCheck
    July 16, 2010 6:35 p.m.

    I wouldn't mind seeing the rivalry go. The behavior by BYU fans has gotten truly disturbing.

  • 3grandslams
    July 16, 2010 6:32 p.m.

    Utah good luck, but we're parting ways. This really is going to open the door big time for the Cougs, to only need to worry about themselves. For years BYU has included Utah in it's plans and turned down invites because it didn't benefit both programs.

    There is no longer a need to look after little bro. I'm personally excited for the Cougs future especially with their ability to broadcast and "Sell" their own games.

    It's time that BYU looks out for themselves. The WAC and MWC were only possible because of the Cougs. The Y is going to get huge before too long. It has a huge national following and once it can broadcast it's own games again...the sky is the limit.

  • MUSSing with U
    July 16, 2010 6:11 p.m.

    Why would BYU want to trek up to RES once of three years?

    What the sportswriter should have have asked is whether BYU would ever consider doing a 3-1 with Utah.

    It would still be worth playing the Utes if BYU fans only had to put up with the boorish behavior at RES once every four years.

  • Snack Pack
    July 16, 2010 5:59 p.m.

    Holmoe is a brilliant and well spoken A.D.. I suspect he will continue developing relationships with Oklahoma and Texas. Those two hold the keys to BYU's future.

  • redfeather
    July 16, 2010 5:56 p.m.

    When Utah face plants in the PAC 10 and becomes a cellar dweller, the Utes will be begging BYU to schedule 2 LES for 1 RES.

  • ConferenceofChampions
    July 16, 2010 5:55 p.m.

    2 for 1 might be the best deal you will get with UTAH Should have taken it while you had the chance.

    Go Utes!

  • Informed Voter
    July 16, 2010 5:52 p.m.

    The BYU/Utah rivalry has lost its luster...let Utah go. I am not bitter about Utah joining the Pac-12 just not interested in watching BYU play Utah. Won't miss the crude Ute fans one bit.

  • Elk1970
    July 16, 2010 5:49 p.m.

    What is a 2 for 1?

  • BYU-Virginia
    July 16, 2010 5:35 p.m.

    Rude. How insolent to ask if BYU would schedule 2 for 1 with Utah. That's incredulous.

  • Kramer
    July 16, 2010 5:34 p.m.

    Did Tom answer any questions? I'm not sure. He did say just what I expected him to say and that is good enough for me. Keep up the good work Tom.