Brad Rock: Size does matter in a conference

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  • Hank Jr
    June 23, 2010 4:14 p.m.

    BYU has much to bring to the table in the Big 12. National Fan base, SLC and Denver TV markets, large stadium, well rounded athletic program, and recognition. TCU or Baylor will also be invited (TCU best bet) and Oklahoma State will be transferred to the Northern conference along with the Y. TCU will be in the Southern conference.

  • JustintimeY
    June 16, 2010 2:15 p.m.

    You can take utah out of the conference but you will never take the classlessness out of their fan base.

  • patriot
    June 16, 2010 1:24 p.m.

    here's a thought ...

    If the U does get the invite to the PAC 10 then playing the Y would be like the Y playing Utah State. This game would be for tradition only and beating BYU would do nothing for the U ... the ole nothing to win and everything to lose deal that BYU has dealt with in playing little Utah State.

  • patriot
    June 16, 2010 1:19 p.m.


    the Pac10 not as good as the MWC?? HA!! Dream on man. The PAC 10 is the Big Time and the MWC is nothing more than a second tier conference. If you are a recruit would you rather play in front of 12000 in Colorado St's little high school football stadium or at the 90000 seat Rose Bowl? The MWC is rated with the WAC and the other small conferences around the nation. Yes from year to year there is always some wins that the MWC can hang its hat on against the PAC 10 but overall the two conferences don't even compare. The MWC isn't even considered major college athletics by most people around the nation and people back east don't even know where the MWC is. UCLA, USC, Standford, Oregon, etc.... compared to Colorado St, Wyoming, San Deigo St.....

    You should be happy that the U is going BIG TIME because that promotion helps the entire state!

  • patriot
    June 16, 2010 12:56 p.m.


    As a Utah Valley resident I think I can understand your bias toward the Y and perhaps jealousy of seeing Utah go BIG TIME to the PAC 10 while the Y is not even considered. First of all the PAC 10 did not consider the Y ... BECAUSE of academics. Utah is a research institute with the medical school and that played very well into why Utah got the nod over the Y (this was stated on ESPN). The U is seen as a higher rated academic institution compared to the private school BYU enviornment. BYU has the no-sunday play policy which doesn't fit well into a big time conference like the PAC 10. Also the U has the two BCS bowl wins and I think this really made Utah a much more attractive addition than BYU. All in all, everyone in the state of Utah should really excited about the U going to the PAC 10 because it not only brings major college athletics to the state but it also enhances the academic percecption as well. Really happy for the U.

  • SoCal
    June 16, 2010 12:27 p.m.

    Re: Bostonblue and the rest.
    Yes it is true that BYU brings more fans, However it is not true that the necessarily bring more money. The LDS faith by it's nature is fiscally conservative.
    Therefore when the BYU fans go to games in other states or at home they don't spend as much money as fans from other schools. Utah or anyone else.
    You stand corrected.

  • wer
    June 16, 2010 12:06 p.m.

    Anybody figure why this exercise in a uninteresting history lesson was published?

    I thought at first it was to give Utah and BYU "Fans" another excuse to write inane comments about nothing worthwhile, but they don't need this article to do that.

  • raven218
    June 16, 2010 11:44 a.m.

    Here's the main thing I see with Utah to the Pac-10- why would they want to go? Sure they have the automatic bid now- but they are not as good of of a conference as the mountain west and that bid will soon change. Name the sport- the mountain west has beat them consistently at it throughout the last 5 years. Especially football and basketball. (As a BYU fan I would love to point out BYU beating Oregon State in football and killing Arizona in basketball). The Mountain West is finally in the midst of pulling the great little guy beat the big guys at their own game miracle story (Disney movie to come soon) and Utah is just going to run away from that? Plus Utah would be leaving the BYU Utah rivalry and all the great things they can do with the other regionally local schools.

  • Go Big Blue!!!
    June 16, 2010 11:41 a.m.

    8 to 12 times the revenue. Who cares if they were the last choice. The Utes will grab that offer anytime is shows up.

    Way to go Utes!

  • patriot
    June 16, 2010 11:41 a.m.

    For BYU this is decision time. Staying alone in the MWC without Utah is not going to work. BYU will sink into collegate obscurity as recruiting all but dies and having no real conference rival will destroy tradition. Attendance will suffer big time for the Y and in the end - it is a money game after all. BYU would be better off going independent and creating a schedule that is appealing to recruits, fans and the national media. Notre Dame did it successfully for years. Staying in the MWC is continuing to dance after the party over and the lights are shut off.

  • Hellooo
    June 16, 2010 11:38 a.m.

    I think Utah's move to the PAC 10 should be a positive for the MWC. Especially, if the U keeps some of their scheduled games with BSU, TCU and BYU over the next few years. On average, these three teams have beaten Utah 2 out of every three meetings. This has to help in the BCS evaluation of league victories over BCS schools. which is a part of the evaluation formula for the automatic qualifying bid. And, with the add of Colorado, the PAC 10 rating has to go down. Great news for all concerned. Thanks Utah and Good luck!

  • Fed Employee
    June 16, 2010 11:32 a.m.

    Why would this be a punch in the gut to the Y? Utah and it's fans have shown themselves to be nothing more than Uncle Toms and this is the only thing that can be expected from them.

  • hedgehog
    June 16, 2010 11:22 a.m.

    "Don't do it in college, but we love you as a PRO"


    How many more punches to the stomach does BYU need to feel before they budge on this hypocrisy? I firmly believe that BYU is holding out only on smug principal an not because it makes a shred of logic. The fears and insecurities of admitting mistakes are holding you back.

  • Oz
    June 16, 2010 11:20 a.m.


    Your analogy was so off-base, I don't know how you could even post something like that. Although it's probably due to the narrow-minded, single point of view you were taught from your school down south.

    A more appropriate analogy would be; being the last person drafted in the NFL while everyone else has to go home... or at best, play in the AFL. I think TDS could play in the AFL...

    But, yeah! Feels great right now. I'd rather be me than you. That's how it feels.

    Please feel free to watch a more attractive well rounded school playing in a better league bringing home 10x the cash flow of your organization. Oh, and we'll be on national network television so it will be very easy to watch it all happen. Enjoy! I'm sure am :-)

  • patriot
    June 16, 2010 11:18 a.m.

    Utah will goto the PAC 10 within the next 2 weeks. Make no mistake Y fans - this is HUGE for Utah and a real kick in the stomach for the Y. Utah will be joining the BIG TIME now and the Y will be left in the MWC as the little brother of Utah sports. Utah's recruiting is going to grab the best LDS athletes now from Utah and California leaving BYU to pick up the crumbs that fall off the table. BYU will fade into obscurity in athletics no question. I'm not saying this because I hate the Y - I don't. I have actually attended many Y games over the years and rooted for the Y but reality is reality and just like Arizona and Arizona St, Utah will be recognized as a major player from this point on...BYU is going to struggle. Ever have that awful feeling of being the last kid picked or not picked at all (in BYU's case). Makes you want to find a corner and cry.

  • OHBU
    June 16, 2010 11:15 a.m.

    While I take the author's point, the WAC doesn't really disprove the notion that superconferences could be very lucrative. The first conference to institute the 12-team, two division format for a conference was some little conference in Tennessee, and it didn't work. Shortly thereafter the SEC tried it and it's been wildly successful. Perhaps Missouri doesn't offer you St. Louis all by itself. But Missouri plus all the fans living their from Ohio State, Michigan, etc. might be enough to push the local cable company to offer the Big Ten Network on basic cable. Teams in these major conferences have huge fan bases, and all it takes is a little push in some places to give you that bargaining power.

  • Wiley Old School
    June 16, 2010 11:13 a.m.

    We don't care because we don't equate BYU with our religion. I know that's difficult for many of you to understand, including, amazingly, LDS who never attended BYU.

    Bishop Wiley Old School

  • Hellooo
    June 16, 2010 11:10 a.m.

    I think it will be good for the Utes and BYU in the end. From a game attendance stand point except maybe for the first year's novelty the fans will come only if Utah is dominate. If they are average in wins and losses attendance will suffer. They will get more $. But, I just don't see the allure to PAC-10 viewers of Utah vs anyone in the PAC-10. There are no natural rivalries. Now, if Utah could dominate, then over time audiences may be interested. But, for PAC-10 viewers, like everything in LA, it will be "what else can we do that is more interesting". In the past, the PAC-10 has always expanded by adding natural rivals. They tried to continue this with the offer to Texas, Texas A&M, Okla, and Okla. St, etc. But, Utah and Colorado, I feel my blood pressure rising already at the possibility. I would rather watch Wyo and Colo. St. at least it is a real rivalry. Anyway good luck Utah.

  • estreetshuffle
    June 16, 2010 10:58 a.m.

    Utah have a nice time in hippie land.

  • Rational
    June 16, 2010 10:34 a.m.

    Coaches over conferences.

    Florida with Spurrier, NC, without, ouch!, with Meyer, NC.

    Utah with Majeras, Finals, without, crickets, crickets, crickets

    Utah with a, b, c, d coaches, nada, with McBride, very good, with Meyer, Whit, very, very good and sometimes great.

    BYU before LaVell, ONE good year, Lavell, very good to great, Crowton (hide heads in shame), Bronco, very good.

    It is improbable, even with Whit, that the Utes will be in contention in the PAC as often as in the MWC, although the "South" division is one they can compete in. It is the big--fish-little-pond or little-fish-big-pond question.

  • rnoble
    June 16, 2010 10:17 a.m.

    get real folks---you can watch both teams

  • Wiley Old School
    June 16, 2010 10:15 a.m.

    If Utah goes PAC and BYU remains non-BCS after five years, you'll be amazed how the Utah bandwagon grows, especially if Utah has one great year during that stretch (a couple of seasons from now when Wynn is a senior and while USC is still hamstrung could be a great opportunity).

    Locals who are not BYU alums will be more inclined to support the "major league" team. (In Utah County, are there more Jazz fans or Flash fans?) There will always be a solid core of BYU fans but the dynamics will change, a bit similar to they way USU is regarded today vs. Utah/BYU in the MWC.

  • SpanishImmersed
    June 16, 2010 10:09 a.m.

    San Diego State vs Utah. Is the PAC 10 compelled by TV market (SDSU), or only available choice for a regional twin with CU (Utah)? We'll see.

  • Wiley Old School
    June 16, 2010 10:06 a.m.

    To Y Grad / Y Dad:

    If you're implying that I've made the assumption that Utah will consistently be a top 1-2 team in the PAC, then you are incorrect.... I do not assume that at all. The PAC will be a much tougher league and therefore Utah will see many more 4th/5th place finishes than they would by remaining in the MWC.

    It is your assumption that I would challenge. I think most elite athletes would still choose Utah over a MWC school. For one thing, that 4th/5th place PAC finish would at minimum earn a bid to the Las Vegas Bowl, and in most situations a better bowl. Sad but true that the PAC downside is greater than or equal to the MWC upside.

    A few elite athletes would select BYU (or BSU, etc.) but the trend would start to favor Utah substantially.

    And then there's the coaching ranks... Utah becomes much more viable as a destination option for high performing coaches.

    The deal's not done yet but if BYU remains non-BCS, it will hurt them. Reverse would be true if BYU goes BIG12 while Utah stayed MWC.

  • Southern
    June 16, 2010 9:37 a.m.

    You don't get the Utah market by adding Utah to the Pac-10. A super majority of Utahns are BYU fans.

  • Fubecao
    June 16, 2010 9:25 a.m.

    Throughout this whole ordeal and all the speculation about 16-team superconferences, I've been wondering why no one in the national media has brought up the lessons of the old WAC. True, as Rock points out, teams like San Jose State and Rice aren't as widely beloved and followed as teams like USC and Texas, but the old WAC proved to be a logistical disaster and only lasted a couple of years before the MWC teams bolted to form a new conference. Even with giant TV contracts, it would have been interesting to see how long a Pac-16 or 16-team Big Ten would have lasted before it imploded under its own weight.

  • BYU Student
    June 16, 2010 9:19 a.m.

    While it's true that the U is like the last kid picked for soccer at recess (for going to the Pac-X), at least they're getting picked. I can see some valid points - they'll make 10 times as much money, play elite schools every year and eventually start to gain a real advantage in recruiting. And I think that's fair - they deserve it if they're in a conference like that. But I still don't think BYU will be left behind forever. We will probably be a BCS team in the next 5 years. Still, I'd prefer no BCS and to have a playoff. But I'll keep dreaming.

  • hedgehog
    June 16, 2010 8:49 a.m.

    When such traumatic events occur I would truly suggest all you Kewg fans seek professional help. Mentally and emotionally you’re in a very unstable spot. Help lines are just a call away.

  • IDC
    June 16, 2010 8:22 a.m.

    Just because you don't like someone doesn't make you a bigot. I don't like Ute fans that poor beer and spit on women but it doesn't make me a bigot. The Pac-10 may just not like to deal with people who base their actions and morality on traditional christian beliefs. Most people like to hang out with people with similar beliefs and interests.

    My bet is that Utah gets an invite to the pac-10 because the pac-10 needs a 12th member. Does Utah make the pac-10 better - no way. Will Utah make the other 11 members richer - no way. Utah just makes # 12. I think Utah will do fine in the pac-10 but will go to fewer bcs games in the pac10 than they have in the MWC. If they stay in the MWC, they will go to fewer bcs games anyway. They were lucky to get 2 and with BSU in the mix, it won't get any easier.

  • Alterego
    June 16, 2010 8:04 a.m.

    Yoot fan:
    How does it feel to be chosen by default?

    Kinda like picking teams for flag football and waiting for someone to point at you. You finally get picked then look around and realize, you're all that's left.


  • Y Grad / Y Dad
    June 16, 2010 7:56 a.m.

    Ah, Wiley Old School, you have made at least one glaring assumption. Utah may or may not perform as well in the PAC as they have in the MWC. A Utah team consistently competing for a chance to be the 4th/5th place team in the PAC is not somehow more attractive than was a Utah team consistently competing for the MWC championship.

    And let's be honest, you weren't consistently competing for the MWC championship.

  • coot20
    June 16, 2010 6:58 a.m.

    The liberal open mindedness of the PAC 10 includes everything but mormons....hypocracy and bigotry at its best

  • DC
    June 16, 2010 6:02 a.m.

    I'm a BYU fan, but I'll be the first to admit that Utah's athletic program has done pretty well in the past ten years. The Pac 10 is a good fit for Utah - I'm not sure comparing Utah's qualities with BYU's qualities works, since the Pac 10 was never going to take BYU, even if BYU had won, much less been to, multiple BCS games. BYU could have won the national championship last year and the Pac 10 would have still given them no consideration. Maybe the Big 12, but no the Pac 10. It may be bigotry, but don't disparage Utah because the Pac 10 is at fault.
    Congrats to Utah! I'm not a Utah man, but I'll cheer for them to beat every Pac 10 team.

  • What's up?
    June 16, 2010 5:41 a.m.

    Bostonblue, Academics,=undergraduate, non research university level, no academic freedom. you said it all!

  • Wayne Rout
    June 16, 2010 5:16 a.m.

    We are in an age where political bias and correctness destorys all logic. The radical liberals that control the typical college college administration won't ever allow a school with the values and goals of BYU to join with them. Going independent is not practical for BYU. I see no change coming that can be positive for BYU. TCU to the Big 12...a sure thing. Utah to the PAC, probably. The success of the MWC in the last few years will be taken away by the stroke of a pen.

  • Wiley Old School
    June 16, 2010 5:14 a.m.

    We're sorry you're hurting so bad. If Utah does land the PAC bid and BYU doesn't find a BCS conference within a couple of years, the money and athletics will quickly swing in Utah's favor. (Average high school GPA, the main factor in educational superiority claims, will always favor BYU due to supply constraints and high-demand from non-Utah mormons but even academic comparisons will be impacted by a PAC-10 move.)

    Within five years, if BYU remains on the outside, almost all local elite athletes will be choosing Utah over BYU given the prospects of competing at a higher level (as will many regional mormons who will choose Utah because it is a PAC school that knows how to manage the mission cycle). There will be a smaller and smaller number of elite athletes who will choose BYU purely because of religious affiliation. BYU will then be competing with USU for the next tier of local athletes.

    For BYU's sake, they'd better hope that a Big 12 offer comes soon or that the MWC, without Utah, somehow gets an automatic BCS bid.

  • Jazzsmack
    June 16, 2010 1:50 a.m.

    Rock just made the perfect argument why Utah will NEVER be invited to the PAC 10,

    it accomplishes NOTHING that the PAC wants to acomplish by expanding.

    A couple of good years in football or basketball during the last decade, does not change the fact they are still utah.

  • bostonblue
    June 16, 2010 1:00 a.m.

    Utah will go PAC. The big question: why? The reason(s) for expansion: MONEY? Add athletics, and even academics. A BIGGER WHY??

    BYU will always bring more MONEY than Utah! BYU has filled its 65,000 capacity most of the last 30 years. Utah has trouble filling its recently expanded 45,000--unless playing BYU! At UCLA, 40% of the fans were BYU fans. Same thing at Washington. In PAC country, that will always be the case. That won't happen EVER with Utah, let alone every game!

    Utah Football was non-existent until Urban and a BYU PLAYER decided to coach there. Still, BYU controls the last 5 years!

    Same TV market? Are you kidding?! BYU will always pull more viewers even in Utah. But, BYU has 7 Million North American Mormons! The BYU potential TV audience is one of the nation's largest. Utah will NEVER compete with MONEY.

    BYU: 30 years of a nationally recognized program, national championship, heisman, NFL MVPs, better facilities. Director's Cup #26.

    Utah: Women's gymnastics, and a few years of football. Director's Cup #57.

    BYU undergrad, Business, Law superior.

    So WHY?? PAC-10 Bigotry. PERIOD.