If anyone really cares about what our students are being taught in some of the
Charter schools then they should do a little of their own research. For starters
they can access "Fethullah Gulen's Grand Ambition, Turkey's Islamist Danger" by
Rachel Sharon-Krespin, MIDDLE EAST QUARTERLY, Winter 2009,pp.55-66Keep your head in the sand, all who choose not to recognize the danger this
man presents here in America. Join with Homeland Security by ignoring this clear
and present danger.....While you're at it if you really care,
perhaps an investigation into CAIR, MIDDLE EAST QUARTERLY, Winter 2002....."How
CAIR Put My Life in Peril" could help us understand more clearly the dangers of
radical Muslims in America. We may not want to believe these influences are
gaining power in our society and threatening our very freedoms, but it is time
to wake up to real world around us and recognize the threats to us......ask
yourself again, "just how did Obama, an unknown, unqualified person, one who is
surrounded by those associated with known terrorist groups, GET ELECTED????
I know that many schools are having financial problems. What most schools DON'T
do to try and fix them is lie to the state about their enrollment numbers
(inflating them by almost 100%) to increase their monthly payments, "negotiate"
$33,000 / month leases on office buildings that won't hold enough students to
make ends meet and then refuse to pay teachers for 2 months... They don't ask
people to submit receipts for services rendered that they aren't paid for and
then count that in the budget as money spent. These are NOT the actions of
honorable or ethical people...
Leesha-That surprises me, I know dozens of students who love and support
the school. But obviously, I was referring to my perspective.
bstastudent, not a perfect school from all students perspective. Many stated
they didn't care if the school closed down, and some said they hoped it did.
These are in the comment section of ksl the day it ran the story of the school
In response to "Fivenickels" actually this isn't an old story, if you would
research you would see that this is getting bigger and bigger. And as far as
financial problems, no other school in the state is having these kind of
financial problems. These are tax dollars, so I don't really care what you
think, because I and everyone else who wants to see this school shut down has a
right to comment and have input into whether or not this school should be in
operation. If you want them to be in operation then you and your Gulenite
friends can reopen as a private school, then you can do as you please, but don't
start dictating to the rest of us about this!And on a calmer note to
"bstastudent" I'm sure you hadn't heard of Gulen before, he is very secretive,
in fact this is in large part the problem with Beehive being a Gulen school. But
rest assured it has never been suggested that they are teaching Islam there, but
there are definite problems with it.google gulen and charter schools to find out
What in the world? -I actually had not heard of him before these articles,
and I'm not sure why everybody is so concerned about Beehive being a "Gulen
School" if that's the case.
This is an old story about the Gulen Movement. The Charter Board investigated,
and found that is a non-issue. It is bothersome that the reporter starts her
article with it. Show me one school in this state that isn't having some
financial problems. Our tax dollars go to all kinds of things that I disagree
with, that doesn't make them wrong. If you don't like the teachers or the
administration... use your feet and don't send your children there, but leave
the rest of us alone who want this kind of diversity for our kids education.
I have a question for "bstastudent", why do you say that if anyone would have
mentioned Fethullah Gulen everybody would have accused them of religious
indoctrination? Had you ever heard of Gulen before these articles? Besides
everyone says that Gulen and his cronies are just academics and don't have
anything to do with religion.
Leesha-If anybody at my school would have mentioned Fettullah Gulen, I
guarantee everybody would have accused them of religious indoctrination. From a
student's perspective, Beehive is perfect.
bstastudent, I would feel better if you HAD heard of Fettullah Gulen while
attending the school. That would have indicated some openess on the part of the
school. Perhaps then the argument that he his virtuous, or at least harmles
might have been plausible.
Scat, where is that you are finding the posts that say that Beehive should be
closed because of it's Muslim connection? The problems are 1. Terrible financial
control. 2. The school's connection to Fethullah Gulen, and their resultant
secrecy about this connection. Why don't you go down to the school and ask them
directly whether they are connected or not? If they say they are not, there is
plenty of information that says otherwise. If they say they are, then ask them
to explain why they have threatened legal action against those that say they are
part of the FGC? So many questions, yet all you can do is pull out the
race/religion card. Do some research and maybe you will learn something that
will supplement your "public school education"!
ThreeBearporride;You make a valid point. But I can tell you NO state,
county, or city is going to close a school down because of Islamic (Sufi Islam
in this case) beliefs or immigration of Teachers with questionable teaching
credentials.That is walking into a grey slippery slop area that could
potentially mean lawsuits from Gulen himself. So instead, the schools IMO will
be closed because of all the shenanigans surrounding all the foundations,
private donors, TAX DOLLARS and money used to promote Turkey and not our
children. Lots of co-mingling going on with Accord, Cosmos, Raindrop, Pacifica,
et al. Check out their 990 IRS tax returns some time.
1) Gulen has only a 12th grade education, his expanded education is in Islamic
Theology2) Gulen has a well documented court case Gulen vs. US Homeland
Security (google it)3) Gulen is connected to Beehive and to the other
schols through his various foundations, he is estimated to be valued at $52
Billion. Don't forget he owns: Insurance companies, Media (to fool dumb
Americans), Banks, Schools and much more.4) He is the most powerful and
controversal Islamic person in the world. Surprise-Surpise he lives in seculsion
on 200 acre compound in Poconos, PA5) Creeping jihad seeps into:
Education, Media, Corpations and governemnts. Looks like Gulen has
managed to make fools of all of you while he laughs all the way to the bank.
I am a student at Beehive, and as far as I'm concerned, it is an amazing school.
In terms of education, this is the best school I have ever attended, and I have
attended some of the best schools in Utah. I'm not sure what it is about
Beehive- the teachers, the students pride in the school, the diverse
environment, or a combination of things, but it really is a great school. It
definitely deserves to stay open. And to all of you who are so paranoid
about the Gulen thing... I have never once heard anything about Fettullah Gulen
at my school. I had never even heard his name until all these articles about
Beehive came out.
Good grief... I'm starting to think that most of you here have a public
education and reading comprehension level of about a 1st grader. Let's see if I
can make this any more clear.I UNDERSTAND that the State Charter
Board Commission is closing the school due to MONETARY NEGLIGENCE. My comments
about ties to Islam were directed at the posters here that seem to have a
religious bias towards those of a different belief system. In the eyes of these
bigoted posters the school should be closed for no other reason than the Muslim
In response to dragon1, I would like to say that the comment that "The school
may not have been started by "business men" they don't see it as just a
business, they will make mistakes but that is what the past is for, to remember
so you don't mess up again." is right, they see this as a missionary endeavor.
And when you have "messed up again" and again why should you and your friends
get another chance?
Let me answer some of your questions/concerns:Beehive and the rest the
Gulen Charter schools operatate on the cheap because they import uncredentialed
teachers to the USA under a HB-1 Visa which is suspect. The teachers donate 40%
back to the "foundation" overseeing that particular school. So they pay these
foreign teachers peanuts.Secondly to the Beehive student who never had
Islam pushed off on him. Read up on what Creeping Jihad or Turkification is.
Gulen works like other cults, grabe the education, corporations and media. into
I still would like to hear from people connected with Beahive Academy if they
believe the Armenian Genocide is a real event. This is an angle that the story
"Dragon-1" you are correct that the Turkish teachers don't share their
connection to Gulen with the students or the other (American) teachers, this
would be in direct violation of the Organizational and discursive strategies of
the Gulen Movement (google it, you will find it on Gulen's own web sites). They
are very friendly and they do get along well with each other and the other
teachers, but don't cross them because then you will see their true nature. This
is a very well orchestrated movement and it has been in operation for close to
40 years, they know how to manipulate you and your government. But when they are
exposed for what and who they really are they immediately begin the legal
threats. Yet they say that they look up to Gulen and his movement, so why do
they threaten to sue anyone who suggests that they are connected? There sure a
lot of questions when it comes to Gulen and his minions!
From what i understood is that the connections that the teachers have are
personal and do not share it with the students or some of the other teachers to.
it is how if you went to another country you would stay in connection with what
is happening at home. While there i never heard them mention of Gulen, It is a
really friendly environment there, I have not seen very many schools that ALL
the teachers love teaching the student and get along with one another. The school may not have been started by "business men" they don't see it as
just a business, they will make mistakes but that is what the past is for, to
remember so you don't mess up again.there has been a lot of
construction at beehive like office rooms to classes, a gym that they can go in
for winter during PE. It costs a lot to tear down and build walls and to ready
it as a school. I don't know where the other expenses go, but teachers there
have taken their own salary to pay for supplies that they want in class.
"Scat" I don't see who is suggesting that the school be closed due to the
Turkish or Muslim teachers. There is however considerable angst about the
connection to the FGC (Fethullah Gulen Community), perhaps if they would have
been more open about this people wouldn't have been so concerned. This combined
with the financial irregularities is a combination fraught with disaster.
The problem that Beehive seems to be having is that they can't fill the seats
with students, however they certainly seem to be able to find plenty of
questionably credentialed foreign teachers. I agree with "sir blackstone" the
lack of transparency is a huge problem. If the parents are not only not told
about the affiliation with Gulen, but are even lead to believe that this is all
just made up, then how can they make a good decision? The Gulen organization is
starting to finally fess up that yes they are running charter schools in the
U.S., do you really think that it is merely a coincidence that Beehive was
started by Turks?
To Scat, The school is not being closed because it has Turkish and
Muslim teachers. It is being closed because it is in the red, because it does
not have properly credentialed teachers and evidently because of inadequate
services to special ed students.Also, the school is not being closed
per se. Its right to be a charter is being revoked. I am pretty sure they
could continue operating as a private school where the parents themselves
provide the money for it to operate. Whether or not the school could run in
such a matter is another question, but the state is only ending its existence as
a charter school, it could try to be a private school.
Yes it is true that it is hard to hold to a budget, but any business who is
financially irresponsible will go out of business, that is a cold hard fact.
Beehive has had five years to make fiscal decisions which would rectify their
financial problems. Yet only after receiving the threat of closure did they
start doing anything, and the manner in which they did it is not a good business
model. They stated that 100,000 dollars in loans were forgiven, but
unfortunately you can't rely on your debtors forgiving your debts. Charter
schools are supposed to be run as a business, and as such they need to
demonstrate fiscal responsibility, it is a shame that this hasn't been the case
with Beehive Academy, but the facts are irrefutable. Whether or not they are
Muslims or Turks, isn't the point, neither is the quality of the education
provided. The bottom line is that as a business they have to perform or they
will not succeed.
Mr. Lambert, Perhaps you should go back to questioning and ask yourself the
question: If they are not spending 300 thousand dollars on textbooks, what are
they spending it on? Maybe this is a farce. If it is, then it is exremely well
orchestrated with a lot of strange coincidences. Perhaps the parents did
research but didn't find anything. After all, didn't Mr. K. Wayment accuse them
of non-transparency? I don't know what information was given out and what was
withheld. It seems that Mr. Wayment did a lot of researching but I didn't start
until it was already out there.
Well, the end of the second page answered my question. This school got
results. If "outsourced" teaching by Turkish teachers is producing
better performing students than the regular system, what is bad about it?
Evidently with low spending on textbooks and a low quality building there is
still a high quality of education going on.
No one is forced to attend a charter school. These parents wilfully sent
their children to it. If they did not investiage enough to know the teachers
were not qualified, whose fault is that?In some ways, I can not
figure out why parents sent their children there at all. Maybe I will before I
finish the article, but the first two pages provided no insight on the matter.
Perhaps logicalone thought that I was referring to them. In reality I was
responding to dragon-1. I would also admonish scat to offer some proof
that the other posters are xenophobes. I find it quite distasteful when people
throw around titles especially if I am possibly grouped with those people. But
if you feel you have a valid arguement by all means do expound
well thank you for pointing that out sir blackstone. My mistake, yes i do
believe that there are some non-innocent Turkish and Muslim people. It seems, from what i have found out, that the American teachers are great
friends with these other teachers so it is not the problem about what kind of
people they are. the school has been converted from an office
building to a school, a lot of funding went into building the classrooms and
buying the lockers and desks there. the school has been only around for 5 years
now, it is hard for any business, school, or just adult to be very sound in the
budgets. If it is true that there debt is not as bad as other charter schools
and is getting better then their is no reason to close it for money reasons.
Wow! This is just amazing, listening to all of this hatred of people you know
nothing about. You read a story and believe everything that is in it. Have any
of you met the people running this school. They are some of the most honorable
people I have ever met. Financial irresponsibility? Who is to judge that? The
school board, are you serious? The government? Really? Come on now people
where is the common sense here. If your child doesn't go there... what do you
care if BSTA is open? Because of your tax money? Seriously, if your child is in
traditional school, you have no idea what goes on there either. Let this school
remain open for the students who deserve and high quality education, that would
be lost in the traditional system
My take: what the owners are doing is wrong, but they don't see it that way.
Good faith has to come grips with reality, if "good faith" is what it really is.
It does provide a great deal of ethical leeway to do things in "good faith",
but some things are simply mis-representative and abusive of influence, which
become as much and even more so a problem than being an outright oppressor. Our
own society if filled with self inflicted and aliased oppressors of their own,
but it is ultimately against the values of liberty to leverage our system to
promote an agenda no matter how legally codified and justifiable it is.
Governments should not be about policing everything, but where the "police" have
no power, you've simply handed over the policing to those who would like to
enforce their own rule in a country that does have a representative government
and one not made by people who feel it is alright to play favorites. Of course
our government is rife with political pocketing, but those who want essentially
no government simply want more power to themselves to influence than they should
Kelly, I understand why the board is closing the school. I'm referring to the
xenophobic posters here that would close the school simply because of the
Turkish and Muslim teachers.
They are not closing the school because there are Turkish teachers and Muslims.
The board indicated their decision was made only due to financial
The level of paranoia here is astounding. I can understand closing the school if
it has been financially negligent but closing it because there are Turkish
teachers and Muslims working there?
that is just my opinion and you dont have to agree with me sir blackstone...
Ah, but the fault in your logic is that it appears that you are saying that
since all americans are not innocent all Turks and Muslims are. You can also
state your argument in another way by switching Americans with Turkish and
Muslims. We just go around in circles without getting anywhere. In the future,
please only use worthwhile logic...
you Know Americans are not all innocent as you believe to be, after all not to
long ago and still today the KKK who are WHITE AMERICANS tried to wipe out the
entire black race, are all Americans innocent? so what makes ALL Turkish and
Muslims EVIL? have you talked to a Muslim about what is happening in the middle
east. They say that that is wicked and don't believe in that crap, sure there
are that do but have not found one yet. so all this talk about the
Turkish teachers what about the American teachers?
Lets chop it up. Make school year round for all kids so we can keep up. Change
the whole system fundamentally instead of adding these unsupervised outliers to
the system.My tax dollars are paying to fly foreigners here to
employ them for PRIMARY education? We need that???Who's idea was
this unsupervised system? If it's not some conspiracy it's at least nepotism at
the expense of my pocketbook funneling 40% of their salaries (paid by you and I)
to some underground entity!
can you say INFILTRATION. Utah is NOT the only place this is taking place. Do
some research on Beehive and you will find a trail that leads to schools all
over Texas and Louisiana. THIS IN NOT AN ACCIDENT.WAKE UP AMERICA.
This is all tired, old "news"! Kelly Wayment ran to the SL Tribune last year at
this same time to cry wolf. Did no one notice the comments by Brian Allen last
year!"Allen sifted through the financial and administrative
misconduct allegations, put in a cautionary call to the U.S. Department of
Homeland Security and officially declared the school free of any involvement in
the Glen Movement."Why is this even in the papers again, once again
in an effort to appear informed, Deseret News has rehashed an old story.
"Islamic links to Utah's Beehive Academy probed" is an intentional slander, the
school isn't being investigated, it had been and was CLEARED. The title should
have been "Gullible reporter listens to rantings of paranoid busybody and
re-states old Tribune story". Amen to your comments Logicalone!
Look, you can't believe everything you read. I went to BSTA (beehive academy)
for 7th and 8th grade. I'm just about done with 9th grade there, as well. It has
been nothing but good to me. My teachers are the best in the state, no doubt
about it. Just because Kelly Wayment didn't like our teachers doesn't mean that
they're a bunch of terrorists. My mom tried to look up the same information, and
she couldn't find any connection at all. And the financial issues? There
are VERY few charter schools that DON'T have financial issues. Ive ready a
few of the comments of this page and noticed that there are a lot of hateful and
bigoted things in here. You cannot judge my teachers and our school just by what
Kelly Wayment and the deseret news said. You want to know what's really
going down at the school? Why don't you interview some of the students and
teachers. OH, and by the way. We DO have a world war II class, thank you
very much. PS What the heck is Gooseflesh?
I would like to define two terms:Terrorism:the use of violence(or the
threat of violence)against civilians in order to attain goals.Terrorist:One that engages in terrorism.By these definitions I have
concluded that here in America we have more american terrorists than Muslim or
Turkish terrorists. According to this definition all murderers, serial killers,
gang members, and sex offenders are all terrorists. They use violent measures
and or threaten people to attain their certain goals. How in the world can we
compare the Turkish teachers to this? Who are we to judge people? I am truly
disgusted how us Americans categorize all the "other" or "different" people
meaning not Americans. Most if not all Muslims who are true Muslims are as
patriotic as you and I. Put yourself in their position and read all of these
hurtful comments and tell me how you would feel. I am sick of all this bigotry
and all of this nonsense. Please start acting like true nonjudgemental Americans
that dont care where people are from or what they believe in!
@dancerWow. I can't believe that this was the only comment posted on
the FIRST PAGE of comments that got the story right! I am a student who attends
beehive and have several friends who where in the mentioned "protest". It was
indeed to protest the suspension of one of our teachers, whom was well liked
amongst the student body, and not the closing of the school. I mean, think about
it. Why would students LEAVE the classroom to protest their school closing?
Also, calling it a fine piece of reporting? I think not. People need to think
about the facts that are presented to them, rather than simply following them
blindly. Maybe they need to start thinking independently, rather than
immediately absorbing the ideas of other people who they believe are "in the
I am sorry, I am tired...I should of said..."I am not deluding myself..."
Until the appeals hearings are through, Beehive will stay open. I do not wear
rose colored glasses. I am not deluded myself. I am doing my job. It is sad
that the posters here don't realize that there are good, dedicated people at
Beehive who will lose their jobs if the school is closed. I know, I know, close
the school, get rid of the Muslims, send them back from where they came...but
what about the other lives that are being affected? Let the appeals run their
course. Let the courts and the school board decide the fate of Beehive and the
students and the teachers.
This comment window doesn't permit URLs so google "charter school scandals" and
go to the post about Sonoran Science Academy - Tucson. There you will learn
about the Arizona network. A great deal of information as been added in the
comments section there.
Dancer, Dancer, Dancer, do you really think that pretending that Beehive hasn't
been closed down will make it so? I feel sorry for the poor saps who are
blithely enrolling their kids in the school, what don't they ever read the
paper? When the school doesn't open in the fall their enrollment fees will head
to Turkey along with the Gulen followers. But at least it wont be more of our
In the article Mr. Biyik is quoted as saying that "Some teachers "might be
influenced" by Gulen, but, in Turkey almost everyone knows him and gets
acquainted with his ideas via mass media and such." In perusing the face book
page of one of these so called teachers I saw a post by the teacher that said "I
love Fethullah" and this superimposed on a picture of her jumping up in the air.
Quite an influence, huh? This quote by this Gulen administrator is just more
of the same old disingenuous comments that come out of Beehive Academy. They are
much more than influenced by Gulen, they are in the words of the article
"marionettes" and Fethullah Gulen is the "puppeteer".
I have also never heard that the terrorists where not Muslim nor have I heard
anyone (Muslim or not) deny this. If this “other side” to Islam is
an enemy to the extremists, you would think that most Muslims would stand up and
fight against it.I have never heard of a “Muslim revival”. If
you have, do tell. In history though, there have been numerous wars that have
been called Jihads.
Need more proof?Read charter school watchdog ...
LDS Liberal: These "peaceful and friendly" supporters are some of the same ones
who sent me abusive and in one case, threatening emails for daring to question
the personnel practises at Beehive. Rose colored glasses anyone???
LDS Liberal--what did you read one story? Gulen's website? Give me a
break.....there are thousands of articles out there and if you are a good
researcher you will want to really look into this. It sounds like you have
barely scratched the surface. I am not a bigot in anyway and to accuse me of
that is totally unfair. If you took some time and looked into things instead of
getting so defensive you might find that Beehive probably paid a lot of money to
the accord institute. They are broke because they didn't manage money in a
responsible way. Accord=Gulen so where did their money go?
charter school dad | 3:38 p.m."Gulen Movement"I would
urge posters to google and see what's going on.================== Thanks for the tip....I did just as
you said,I found them to be even more peaceful and friendly than the
Beehive Academy supporters.Holy Cow, what is your problem?Blind Bigotry??
Charter School Dad: But wouldn't it be nice if people actually did research the
issue? I bet there are people on both sides of the fence that would say "Oh! I
didn't know that"...
Charter School Dad: You're absolutely right that there is more going on than
meets the eye - just what the "more" is would obviously be not only open to
interpretation, but is what's really divisive here. But the school is not being
closed for those reasons and to imply that they are is offensive to the people
who had to look at the situation and make the judgement call. If anything, I
suspect that the simple fact that there is a strong minority presence in the
school and administration forced the charter school board to exercise an
overabundance of caution and, as a result, allowed the school to go on for a lot
longer than it should have...
In this article you have a teacher from a Gulen school coming forward to say her
husband, who is Turkish, was forced to give 40% of his salary back,to the
movement. Perhaps some of these Turkish teachers are victims. Maybe they don't
realize they have to give that amount back until they get here and if they don't
comply their visas are taken. This is a big movement folks that is very
organized. Research on the internet...there is a lot out there.
Threebearporridge* I both agree and disagree with you...YES the school may have
been closed for those reasons but it you look at the much larger picture...the
Gulen Movement, of which these teachers and administrators are a part of, has an
agenda. Most of the posters on here are so defensive they will never take their
time to do the research necessary to understand the world connection here. Close
to 1,000 schools world wide, businesses, media outlets etc. are affiliated with
the Gulen movement and yes this little charter school in Utah is ONE of them.
There is a very big picture here folks and it's right there if you take your
time and research and read about it. I would urge posters to google and see
what's going on.
Dancer: Why did it take 5 years for them to do this? And, in fact, the school
is not authorized to operate next year so whether the school is closed or is
just "recommended to be closed" is really a moot point... It's symantics at
Just one quick comment...the school has NOT been closed. The State Charter
School Board RECOMMENDED that Beehive's charter be revoked. It is still in the
appeals process. Beehive remains open and until the appeals process has been
exhausted, Beehive will continue to function as a school. Beehive has been
working with the Charter School Board to "fix" the problems. The Special
Education Department is in full compliance, financial management has been
addressed and the licensing issues are being addressed. Beehive is doing all it
can to make sure it is in compliance with the state.
Wow! All this rhetoric! At the end of the day, there are solid reasons the
school was closed: 1. Financial Mismanagement, 2. Teacher Licensing and 3. 5
years of Special Education non-compliance. Regardless of all the
conspiracy theorists (ON BOTH SIDES OF THE ISSUE), it has nothing to do with the
politics, religion or nationality of the teachers or administrators. It has to
do, plain and simple, with a poorly run business who, after repeated support and
counseling, refused to do what was necessary to fix the problem. I find it
offensive as a parent and an American to have this turned into anti-muslim
rhetoric and "anti- anti-muslim" rhetoric. It's about the kids, the
tax payers and basic integrity. Call a spade a spade people...
On a more serious note than my previous comment, I was horrified by this
article. Yes, we do have a lot of Turkish teachers and they can SOMETIMES be
hard to understand, but I have received a wonderful education here. The previous
private school I went to was much poorer than this one, and it was horrible. I
have also went to Turkey twice from this school (it's a wonderful country), and
it's an opportunity I would never get from another school. I am also female, and
I have NEVER been told to cover my head or been treated differently since I was
a girl. This school also has much less alcohol and drug problems than other
public schools, and I don't think anyone has gotten pregnant (unlike other
public schools, which have day cares from everyone getting pregnant). I have
learned so much at this school, and made so many friends here. And if you want
to look at finances, the public school districts have millions of dollars worth
of debt. And while I don't think the administration handles money very well, we
have much less debt than other public schools.
Those defending the school are missing the critical point. U.S. Tax dollars
should not be spent for the preferential hiring of Turkish men and buying visas
to transport Turkish men into the U.S. Period. If these people want to set up
a PRIVATE school, not associated with tax dollars, then that is great. It
doesn't matter how eloquent the education is, the preferential hiring of Turkish
men clearly is not consistent with hiring principles in America and I believe is
likely illegal. I am a general fan of charter schools but clearly there needs
to be greater oversight and regulation.
To comment on one of the statements in the article:"...A group of
teenagers starts kicking around a soccer ball for gym class. Their arms look
like gooseflesh, unprotected in their matching blue polo shirts..." I was
one of those teenagers whose arms are apparently gooseflesh. Really? I've never
seen that used in relation to arms before. We weren't even cold. And we weren't
in blue polo shirts, either, we were in gym clothes. Maybe some of us were
wearing blue, but most of us weren't.
@wrz:As I said, and I quote: "how in the name of heaven they bring
turkish people as teachers when there are so many teachers here that need
jobs?".. enough said.I do think a money scam is going on there.There are very good public schools in Utah. But as someone said, the key
is parents. Besides, how many people are out there who came from projects and
ghettos and now they are the most educated and succesful people. When you want
to be succesful, you don't give excuses, you just do it.
To show you how the article in the newspaper had an anti-Beehive agenda, the
picture of the "World War II" display was actually a huge Holocaust Memorial
display we had at our school. We placed sheets of paper on the wall with
11,000,000 dots on them. Each dot represented a victim of the Holocaust. The
display included an authentic German helmet, Nazi armband, and Nazi eagle. It
also included Nazi music and clips of Hitler's speeches, so students could
actually hear the Nazis. There were many other posters, flags, and displays -
most of which were completely accessible to the students. Now the amazing
thing. In the three weeks our display was in place there was not a single
instance of vandalism or damage. Not a mark of graffiti, not a single sign of
disrespect. Our 200 TEENAGE students were sobered by the scope of the Holocaust
and the Nazi attempt to exterminate the Jews. Not bad for a "Muslim" school, I
would say. I challenge any public school to match it! Yet the Deseret News, in
typical journalistic fashion, chose to take the low road in their caption, and
painted Beehive in a negative light.
Bottom line. Parents have to take an active role in their kid's education and
demand better and then be willing to back that up with helping with the
solution. If we demand better it will happen. Elected officials will have no
choice but the fix the problem. As it is we get upset when it appears in the
news and then go back to status quo. Education in Utah and in America is
declining because we as a nation are passive and complacent. We feel we are
entitled to all that is good and wait for it to happen. America is great because
we can have what we demand and are willing to make happen. It's hard work. $100
says that 90% of the posters here will do nothing about any of this after a
week. Instant gratification and instant solutions. Not gonna cut it.
palouse | 10:59 a.m.------------Hahaha!!!That was
hilarious and right on the dot!!!I'm saddened and ashamed of those
who claim such higher standards, yet are some of the most backwards, intolerant,
and bigoted people I have ever come across....pencils and
erasers...invading hordes back to the teacher's lounge...hahaha, classic!
Palouse no matter how hard we try I don't think we'll get through to these rabid
fearmongers. Every nut bar needs a cause and those bigoted against all things
Islam have found theirs. Congrats Americans you have just given the Muslims a
bigger reason to despise you.
Okay. I surrender. Apparently Turkey is in the process of conquering the
United States, and using the unique approach of infiltrating charter schools to
do so. Oh my heck! Should we arm ourselves with pencils and erasers and drive
the invading hordes back into the teachers' lounge? I am absolutely positive,
after reading all these intelligent and absolutely truthful postings that my
wife will be in a burkha in a matter of weeks! Come on, folks. If you step
back and realize how utterly ridiculous (and bigoted) you sound, you'd be
ashamed. Every attack on Beehive hurts my students, their parents, and my
friends. My son's teachers - whether Turkish or American - have never once
withheld their full support and encouragement in his struggle for a good
education. As for "credentials", I've known many teachers with all the right
credentials who weren't fit to teach a rat, much less a child. If truth be
told, the attacks on Beehive (and charter schools as a whole) are motivated by
powerful individuals who cannot accept a non-conformist approach to Utah
My children went to a Turkish Science Academy. I could not believe our school
was connected to other schools and certainly not the Gulen movement. I went on the school trip to Turkey. You can ask anyone who has been on the
trip or has a child that went....we visited Gulen schools & the kids stayed at
Gulen schools. Our itinerary was identical to other schools across the country.
So, there's a connection. Which may not have been a big deal if I was informed.
Why the secret?The real concern? Are the schools following the
guidelines of their charter? what is the hiring criteria? I think
parents that send kids to a Turkish charter school are open to a diverse
teaching staff. That's the appeal for many parents. It's too bad this becomes
a fear of Muslim issue.
I agree with palouse about the fact that not all Muslims are terrorists.
However, (at least in the past decade) all of the terrorists in our country have
been Muslim. So comparing these Turkish teachers to the LDS missionaries is not
a realistic claim. For starters, I have never heard of a terrorist that was LDS
(and if there has been, there have been very few compared to Muslim terrorists).
Also, the missionaries don't start charter schools in other countries and don't
keep their ties to the church clandestine. The Prophet of the church has also
never been charged with attempting to overthrow the secular government, and
their goal is not to set up a “Mormon Theocracy”. The Church has
also never tried or threatened to wipe Israel off the map.
Re:Texas, who said,"I am disgusted by this article. If even a quarter of
it was true, I, too would be worried. But there is not one shred of truth to be
found in this article. Where did you get this information?"I have a
question for you "Texas", have you read the article completely? If so do you
have any idea who "Jane's Islamic Affairs Analyst" is? They happen to be one of
the main contributors to our countries' intelligence agencies. So do you still
hold to the statement that "there isn't one shred of truth to be found in this
article". If you and your like minded apologists for everything Turkish/Islam
would open your minds and eyes you just might learn something, and maybe it will
happen in time to do something constructive!
palouse | 10:09 p.m. ============== Bravo!!!
Seriously a world wide conspiracy trying to do what I wonder convert our kids to
Islam. Come on now if you have strong family values the children won't stray far
from the nest. All hail the grand paranoia that resides in America. Let
McCarthyism and Witch Hunts begin.
Why, when the unemployment rate in the U.S. is about 9%, would someone think its
a good idea to import unqualified teachers from Turkey instead of hiring
locally? Where do these Turkish men go after a few years of role
playing as teachers?Something seems really strange here.
Palouse- I used to be like you...our family loved the turkish teachers on a
personal level and like many families have had them to our homes to enjoy
food/meals/conversation. It is a betrayal once you are informed about their
agenda and you fit the puzzle pieces together. Kelly says it best in the
article, "No one likes to think their school is part of an international
conspiracy" but it is! Do your research. Look beyond their baklava and tea and
"extra" hours spent with our kids. These schools are almost like little
franchises and "they" have figured out the "formula". They know what "we" want
and many parents won't take their time to look beyond the obvious. There is a
big agenda here. Educate yourself...the wool is being pulled over your eyes!
Um. Islamic educational moment: Calling someone a jihadist is not the same as
calling them a terrorist. A Jihad is (in Islam) a "Holy Struggle". Yes,
Terrorists call for Jihad against the west, but Isalmic clerics use the term to
indicate a spiritual struggle in the same way that evangelists call for a
'revival'. I saw nothing in the explanation of this Gulen fellow to indicate
he's the type of Islamist who believes in violence to achieve his objectives,
and it does not appear there's a link to terrorist groups like Al Qaida. They do
believe that the west should submit to Islam, no doubt, but if their means of
attaining submission are peaceful, then "bring it on." It isn't like Utah hasn't
sent out its share of religious missionaries. What I do find distasteful is the
notion that they believe they can lie and distort their intentions for the sake
of their holy cause. That sort of nonsense needs to be rooted out of Islam,
though it's a well-established "caveat" of the religion--and has been since its
inception. Just thought I'd spread a little religious sunshine... (I'm LDS,
Oh yes 4 new students this week. These people are selling and nothing more.
Charter Schools are outsourced to Turkey to manage for less. These kids are not
getting a better education, it is a propaganda put out by the many foundations
that oversee the Gulen schools. The awards are always from Gulen sponsored
events.The propaganda is from Gulen owned media: Zaman and Erbu TV, oh
this is funny that American parents would fall for the Turkish agenda.
Charters are a complete joke. We taxpayers are being taken for a ride!We have some of the best public schools in the nation. We aren't downtown
Philly or NY where you see Jon Stossel report about how bad the public schools
are. We are UTAH and we show the rest of the country how it is
done. We have no need for charters. We just have need for smaller class sizes
and adequate funding.
Beehive is not closing yet... we can not give up all hope. If the state truly
wanted Beehive to succeed then they should have brought someone from the state
to help us, not giving us hope and then crushing it. BTW I know there are other
schools out there but for me Beehive works. "Logical one"
WRZ- For your information, I am a native New Yorker. I grew up on Staten Island
and watched them build the twin towers. I saw the hole in the ground before
there was a single piece of steel. Floor by floor I saw the towers rise and was
very proud of them. On the morning of 9/11 it was MY city that was attacked, MY
towers that fell, MY people who died. I was so upset I went to New York to
help. I saw the hole again, smelled the stench and saw the removal of bodies.
I hated every Muslim on the planet! Islam was my enemy. Then I got a job at
Beehive and found out that Islam has another side - a decent caring side. Don't
preach to me about the "other side" of Islam. Control you xenophobia and
remember that most people of whatever faith are good decent people. As a New
Yorker I proudly embrace my Muslim friends and colleagues. As a native New
Yorker I understand that the terrorists are not Muslims, but barbaric murderers
who are as much an enemy of Islam as they are of the United States of America!
I think that the fact that "quality of education matters" to people these days
is manifested by the fact that they ARE closing Beehive down. By doing this, the
Charter Board has shown that schools must be accountable and, hence, make them
better quality. I too went to Beehive but then I found a better school. There
are "other fish (schools) in the ocean (state)" with just as devoted teachers
and education AND better budgeting, financial conduct etc. I agree that
students deserve quality education. However, since it is the tax payers that are
paying for this quality education, they deserve 1) what they are paying for
(quality education), and 2) financial responsibility. By the way, is it
“logic alone” or “logical one”?
The Turkish teachers are some of the best teachers I have had. Not ONE of them
has ever forced Islam on me or tried to force their beliefs on me. I dont
understand how this article is such a great article if all it tells is lies and
is full of bigotry.So many schools are having difficulty with many things
whether it being financials or sex offenders, but once people see that there is
a school that is not run by Americans and is going through some trouble then it
is targeted and never left alone until it shuts downd.As a patriotic person this
is not how I thought Americans like myself would act. I was always taught that
in America religion and race did not matter, apparently it does, but to me it
doesnt! For those of you who agree with the article you should really listen to
both sides. Beehive has done amazing things and has changed many lives including
mine.The quality of education should matter to you and the students in the
school should matter to you! The school closing will not solve any problems!
I am a current student at Beehive. As a student I find many of the comments on
here very hurtful. For those people who think that we should just shut the
school down and call it good, I dont think you realize that there are students
who have no other place to go. If I was satisfied with all the other schools
that I have been to then I would have just stayed there, but I wasn't. I came to
Beehive to get the education that I deserved. I have been to public schools and
private schools, none of which satisfied me. The teachers at those schools did
not care if I turned an assingnment in or not, they did not care about anything
I did in general. Showing up to some classes got you an A. The teachers at
Beehive are not comparable. Yes we do have a lot of Turkish teachers,BUT we also
have many American teachers. It is really frustrating to know that it matters to
people what country or religion these teachers are or from. Does the quality of
education not matter to anyone these days?
When was the school ever cleared of being connected to the Gulen Movement
"Texas"? Maybe we wouldn't be so "scared of some of these comments" if people
would research before posting and get their facts straight!!
When education1st said "...Utahan's having ancestors who were persecuted because
of their faith and beliefs there would be more demands for hard solid facts
here" it seems like they were insinuating that we are persecuting them for their
faith. However, (I don't know about you) I have never considered fiscal
mismanagement to be the same thing as being Muslim. I think that political
correctness has really gotten out of hand since it's gotten to the point to
where we can't even criticize or question a school's motives or intentions just
because they are Turkish Muslims.
I am disgusted by this article. If even a quarter of it was true, I, too would
be worried. But there is not one shred of truth to be found in this article.
Where did you get this information? Because it is very one sided and biased. I
know for a fact that these people are good, kind hearted people. They are not
associated with the Gulen movement. That was proven by the state. I cannot
believe some of these comments. Like what has been said before, with most of you
in Utah, who's ancestry was persecuted because of their religion, how can you
sit here and be so nasty to these people? It makes me physically sick.
Re:Dancer"Thank you education1st. I am scared of some of these comments
too. Maybe society should be more afraid of the ideas that are being posted here
than of a small charter school whose only job has been to teach their
students.".... along with funding the Gulen Organization, bringing
(unqualified)male Turkish teachers, with the occasional (unqualified)female
Turkish teacher into the U.S. But yes this is just an unprovoked attack on these
poor souls who's only wish is to improve the American education system. And by
all means do impose censorship on all the rest of us who happen to believe that
there is something stinky going on here!
Excellent reporting. I mainly read the WSJ because of the good in depth
reporting but this Desnews article show even a local paper CAN do a good job.
Now please keep it up and it may even become worthwhile to get a paid
subscription again.I certainly hope that more investigation is done
on this at a local level. I also hope that someone at the national level is
looking into this system of Turkish ran schools. I really think Desnews is only
looking at the tip of the iceburg.
Let's not forget Mr. Jones and how he changed a charter school for autistic
children into a football scholarship school. They went belly up, too, at the
expense of the handicapped children that the charter was supposed to serve.
Teachers went unpaid and their insurance coverage was lost because of unpaid
premiums. I guess we can see, now, what is meant by "running education like a
business." This looks a lot like the self-dealing mess on Wall Street. Also,
note how the school names act like Madison Avenue adverts to lull the consumer
into confidence, "Harmony," "Beehive," etc. It seems that this Turkish
organization has done it's homework on conservative Americans. Too bad that
conservative Americans are so prejudiced against public education that they
allow their desire for elite segregation to trump good judgment. As for the
Turkish charter school bunch, way to go beating Americans at their own game.
Re: Arm of Orion"I bet in your minds the Muslims are either
terrorists or terrorist sympathizers."That's what they are in my
mind. Why hasn't the Muslim community come out and "STRONGLY" denounced
terrorist activities. If you're silent when someone hijacks your religion and
uses it to kill and maim innocent men, women, and children then you are a
sympathizer. People like you are exactly what the Islamo-fascists
are counting on. Keep up the politically correct apologizing but don't do it for
Thank you education1st. I am scared of some of these comments too. Maybe
society should be more afraid of the ideas that are being posted here than of a
small charter school whose only job has been to teach their students.
@wrz 2:43 p.m.:"Revoking is only part of the problem... Getting them
out of the country is yet another... especially with Obama as president."This whole concoction of bringing Turks to Utah to teach is nothing but
an immigration scam. They enter the country on a visa, learn a smattering of
English, teach for a year or two, then disappear into the underbrush. At which
point they become illegal immigrants with expired visas and few worries about
being discovered and deported. Reference Arizona.
Actually I think it's a deeper concern. I think the Gulen schools self promote
so much that they gain unwarranted reputations in the community for being
schools for "smart kids". It's probably about 5% of the kids at these schools
who win the awards but "outsiders" would never know that. I have heard some of
these schools are in trouble for not offering special ed services to the extent
that they should, because they want kids that need services to leave their
How funny Mr Wayment has collected over 100 documents and yet where is the
proof? Some of these comments scare me, you would think with such a large
majority of Utahan's having ancestors who were persecuted because of their faith
and beliefs there would be more demands for hard solid facts here.
@American Teacher:The reason your school is as good as you say it
is, is becasue you siphon off the best students. the rest must remain in public
schools.If you took the run-of-the-mill, across the board students
your averages would be, er, average. Same as in public schools.
The teacher that commented should note that these schools all seem to state that
they hire Turkish men because they can't find qualified "American" teachers to
teach math and science. We know that's a lie...as a teacher at one of these
schools doesn't that make you angry? I don't hear anyone saying that they teach
Islam to these kids...you are missing the point! Maybe they would have some
resources for teachers if they were not spending so much on visas and other
perks for the Turkish teachers. If you are teaching at one of these schools
KEEP YOUR EYES OPEN!
@palouse: "...different is scary."Islam has two sides (at least).
One side is what you're apparently seeing and the other the poor folks in the
Twin Towers on 9/11 saw.You need to look at the big picture,
palouse. The world is presently engaged in a war on terror. And the
perpetrators of the terror part of the war from all the evidence so far is the
religion of Islam... the same religion that the Turkish teachers of your school
@Utah Dem 11:31 a.m.:"Question - if the school has been shut down by
the state have the visas been revoked?"Revoking is only part of the
problem... Getting them out of the country is yet another... especially while
Obama is president.
"My big concern was making sure they weren't teaching religion in the
classroom," he said. "They were not preaching Islam at that school in any way,
shape or form."Great. That's all we need, more Muslim men in the
U.S. Then they can start reproducing at four times the rate of the Christian
community so that in a generation or two the Muslim population will be able to
change laws and freedoms here in the U.S.A. to a suppressive society that exists
in the Islamic countries. Take a look at what is happening in Europe.The
people of the U.S. ought to wake up and realize that these "really nice polite"
young Muslim men are spreading Islam here while lying to your face. They attend
mosques where the takeover and destruction of the U.S.A. (the great satan) is
spewed from the pulpit. There are no moderate Muslims, otherwise they would have
cleaned there own house by now. How can you claim the holocaust was caused by
the Jews? How can you claim that 9/11 was caused by some conspiracy not
associated with radical Islam? Time to wake up.
Tell me Leesha who would these people be? Ah I love the smell of unfounded
paranoia in the afternoon!
some (at least two), here, are Turkish people masquerading as native English
speakers. If you haven't noticed yet, check out the grammatical and sentence
@ mecr (9:23 a.m.)Are you saying it's a good idea to import people
from Turkey to teach at a school in America who can't speak English and are yet
to be certified?Good heavens!!
What parent would knowingly send their kid to a school where the teachers are on
visas from Turkey and can barely speak English?Come on, parents.
Get your heads out of the sand. Don't yo know you are facilitating Muslim
Jihadism whose goal is the overthrow of the US government and implantation of
their Sharia Law?
The problem here is that these 80+ Gulen Charter US Schools are not TRANSPARENT
about their affliation with Gulen's movement. If you pull up any of their
websites: Sonoran Science Academy (AZ) Harmony Science (TX) Horizon (OH) Coral
Science (NV) Magnolia Science (CA) you will find Turkish American clubs,
language, song, etc., complete with a "dog and pony" trip to Istanbul at the
end of the year which in my opinion could be dangerous for American students in
a 99.5% Moslem country. The high test scores that these schools boast
about is a selling tool. In fact, the contests are all sponsored by Gulen and
are biased as well as the propaganda because Gulen owns Zaman and ERBU TV.
Censorship is something the Turkish government thrives on and has laws
protecting against insulting "Turkishness" check out UTUBE for some great
propaganda - like a sophisticated cult.
Tell me BH is or is not the attack of calling these men Jihadists paranoid? It
is since oh guess what those who sympathize with them are very few in the Muslim
population. So according to statistics it's highly unlikely that those men are
not Jihadists. Or to take statistics more literally one of their toes has
Jihadist sympathies. Yet for you two there is a paranoid fear of all things
Islam. I bet in your minds the Muslims are either terrorists or terrorist
sympathizers. With such paranoia comes what ah I know the desire to protect
ourselves from those "evil" Muslims. How do we do that? Well we must remove them
from civilized society far and away from the rest of America. We put them in
what oh Internment camps. Sounds like Hitler doesn't it. By the way I only use
Hitler analogies when they are needed and are perfectly appropriate. In this
case I gave you the probable outcome of giving into your inane fears.
Again, the formula is "Follow The Money!" Upstream or downstream, it will lead
you to the answer!
palouse, Yes, Districts have managed money pretty well, they also can levy
taxes when they need to. Charters don't have that ability and must live within
their means. I agree that the State and Fed both do more than they should. I'd
be happy to have them do only the absolute minimum. Any ideas on how to get
that done?The charter school you work at exists because people like
me went to the legislature and asked them to give charter schools a chance. I
personally told them we'd be accountable. Although I love charter schools I
can't possibly defend mismanagement financially or just making bad decisions.
It sounds like accountability has hit and you're unhappy about it.For the record, I didn't tolerate large class sizes. I got involved in the
charter school movement and reduced my children's class size.
I believe that most teachers in the state of Utah want their students to
succeed. Everywhere, the teachers lack the funding to make this happen, public
or public charter schools. There is a place in our society for both. There is
a need in Utah for both. It is a small group, but there are students who need
what a small charter school has to offer. Beehive is an excellent school. For
our students sake, I hope that the Board can see that.
At my charter school, which I'm very proud to teach at, we exist for one reason
only - the students. We are nationally ranked, have state testing scores in the
high nineties consistently, have trophy cases of awards, and have extremely high
AP scores. Almost all of our seniors graduate to go on to college, some of them
even top tier and Ivy League schools.We are run by Turkish people
and many or our teacher are Turkish. Though, nobody but nobody preaches anything
about Gulen or any other religion. As I watch other schools sink and
our State Governmnent help kill them off, and as I witness the substandard
education taking place around my state, I am proud to be a teacher at such a
strong and supportive school. Conspiracy theories do not change the needs of our
children; but, rather they can harm filling those needs. After all, almost all
of us came from immigrants and held strong national and racial ties to our home
countries and our countrymen. I fought and was injured for the freedoms of our
melting pot country. Now, I teach its children in one of the top schools. So be
Utah's public schools do a fantastic job. Charters were never needed here. If
the legislature would put the money where it belongs (real schools not charters)
then we would lead the nation in every category for education.Instead the legislators and parents experiment with their own children's
education.It is complete craziness.
2 words for:wrzlookbeyondBHMountain
Meadows[You should NEVER blame the actions a very small few a
stereo-type all others. That is bigotry, and it is dangerous.]
Shakespeare's fool - And Jordan and Granite and any number of other districts
manages their finances perfectly? How about the State of Utah or the Obama
Administration? How about all the pork spent by the politicians you and I
elect? Let's just close the state and federal governments since their finances
are so much worse than Beehive's. Do you actually believe everything you read?
Have you ever seen the other side of the story? And explain to me why all of a
sudden you Utahns are so concerned about education when you tolerate the worst
student-teacher ratio in the nation. Why does Utah expect each teacher to be
Einstein and then treats them like a burger flipping teenager? (See Jordan
School District) No, Utah doesn't care about education. Road construction,
maybe. Education, nope.
Lifelong Republican | 8:48 a.m. June 1, 2010 Yet another nail in the
charter school coffin. It is time to shut the whole charter program down. ============= So,Now we see here a perfect example of
a "Lifeling Republican" bemaoning the private sector and crying for the monopoly
of a Governemnt ONLY schools.Can you say "Socialism"???The hypocrisy from the right is always amazing.Shocking
Charter school ARE public schools. Publicly funded. They have to meet minimum
testing standards to retain their charter. The only difference is that the
curriculum and method of teaching can differ from the mainstream.One
thing we're forgetting here is that the public school IS NOT the bright, shining
example of education. It is in real trouble and the standards for graduation are
very low and yet the graduation rates are still far to low. Charters provide the
option of an alternative and hopefully force public schools to compete instead
of being complacent. There are problems with both, but don't we believe in
competition in America?
palouse, it sounds like the state overlooked "different" for quite a while.
That is until it realized that the school's finances were so different that they
had to recommend closure. How is it that the school can't pay you or your
fellow teachers for the last two months. That's different. I call it broke.
I cannot comment on what the administration at the school has or has not done,
but I do know that Beehive has an excellent science lab and two full computer
labs. As I said, I work at Beehive and all teacher speak English and can be
understood. Our job is and has always been the education of our students.
Yes, there are a few bad charter schools just as there are some bad district
schools. Unfortunately, we don't have strong charter authorizers in this
state. We need a strong authorizing agency that has the power to step in and
replace board members or staff as needed. Right now, they can only request
compliance from a school or recommend closure. That's not a broad range of
options in my opinion.To all those who whine because they think the
district schools have been hurt by charters, why don't you refocus your
attention to improving those schools. After all, someone didn't like them
enough to leave and try something different. So, you're not exactly speaking
from a position of strength are you?
They might be good at educating children, but they can't manage their finances
worth a darn. The state should mandate that money from Utah public funds cannot
be used to bring in teachers from a foreign country (should go for districts
Thanks to Orion for proving that no internet based conversation can continue
without someone making a Hitler comparison.Great article. Thanks,
Elizabeth. So, where are our state and federal regulators, assuring
equal opportunity in hiring practices? Can't find qualified American teachers,
yet Turkish men with no teaching qualifications are qualified?Someting stinks in Denmark, and it's not rotten fish.Hopefully
this article will spawn public outrage, govement oversights will take place, and
change will occur.
I am both a teacher and a parent at Beehive. It is a great school, and my child
has blossomed there. I am also an award winning, Christian, American teacher,
certified in Utah and endorsed in my subject area. Never once has anyone at
Beehive attempted to convert me or my son to Islam. On the contrary, I have
found all Muslims at our school - from whatever country - to be polite, genuine,
and decent people. As a native New Yorker, I have more reasons to distrust
Muslims than most. Instead, their kindness and dedication to my child and
myself have been inspirational. They are warm, caring people, and I am honored
to have worked with them and called them my friends. It was once said during the
Cold War that there was no "Truth" in "Pravda", and no "News" in "Izvestia".
With the dissolution of the old Soviet Union, apparently that saying now applies
to the Deseret News. The truth is, the State of Utah is determined to close
Beehive at all costs - including their integrity - because it is different - and
in Utah, at least, different is scary.
Dancer: It's nice to know that the administration is at least being honest
about the current status of the school. What about overstating the enrollment
of the school last year by almost 100% resulting in a huge disparity in the
amount of funding received? What about the administration sharing confidential
personnel information with parents when they chose to suspend a teacher? How
were these actions ethical? What about the science labs and the lack
of technology? What about the limited English proficiency of some teachers?
You can bet if Beehive had been any other type of business, they'd
be out of business a long time ago..
raybies - wrz is correct, you just teach to the tests or you teach students how
to cheat. I also agree that this is some of the best reporting I
have read in years from a Utah newspaper. Question - if the school
has been shut down by the state have the visas been revoked?Lots of
failings in the State Office of Education also.
One more thing, to threebearporridge; every new registration that is taken at
the school is done so with the explanation of what is going on with the state.
All new enrollments know that the school has the possibility of not being open
next year. They still enroll. Most ask how they can help fight this. If
Beehive is not opened next year, all registration money will be refunded.
The "book room" is not the library. Beehive has a small library. The "book
room" is a storage room used to store textbooks and teacher materials.
Students all have textbooks. Every class has teaching material. Every class is
taught from a text book. The janitorial service that comes to the school each
night is "The Hands that Clean" company. I am a female who works at the school
and I have never been asked to cover my head or told that my place was in the
home. I feel highly respected and love my job. The students at Beehive receive
an excellent education. Some of the information in this article is old news,
the state cleared Beehive of having any religious ties. Also, the Sate Charter
School Board "recommended" that Beehive's charter be revoked. It has not been
revoked and Beehive is appealing that recommendation.
Anyone who is calling for the closure of the public school system because of
beehive has to apply that logic to all schools. Therefore if one public or
private school is failing then they too must be closed and if a homeschooling
system is failing then we must outlaw all home-schools. Yep that would be
brilliant.Now to my favorite posters the paranoid. Equating these
teachers to Jihadists is like Hitler equating Jews to being the spawn of the
devil. You guys really need to tone down the rhetoric.
As the parent of two charter school students who are thriving in their education
in Math, Engineering and Sciences, I can attest to the benefits of the charter
school system. My children study hard and are inspired by their experience and
their amazing teachers. The problem with one charter school is not an excuse to
close down the whole school system as Life Long Republican (above) indicates.
That thinking is just plain ridiculous and narrow minded. The Academy for Math,
Engineering & Sciences (AMES) is extraordinary for my children and it would be a
crime to blanket the entire charter school system because of one bad apple. So
lets move forward with the progress. To that end however, I applaud the courage
and tenacity of Mr. Wayment for his selfless desire to get to the bottom of the
tyranny at Beehive and lance the boil of infection of the Gulen organization in
our charter school system. Much thanks to the thorough reporting by Elizabeth
Stuart. I want to know more.
Where are all our multi-culturalists? Frankly if we are getting Turks who are
educated as immigrants, we should be happy. Sounds like the school had a second
mission of bringing in Turks. It also sounds like their financial shenanigans
are suspect, other than that they seem to be fulfilling the charter to provide a
superior education, (not hard to do these days with the disasterous public
schools) My children went to parochial school, their education was leaps and
bounds beyond the public school. I know people who have their children in Utah
Charter Schools and are very happy. This Gullen character sounds superior to
the usual Jihadist. Perhaps one of the new wave of Islamist Reformers. Except
for Gullen's reported methods of duplicitious infiltration. Islam is going to
overwhelm the world, might as well plan for it and cheer on the good guys.
I don't recall that the desseret news ever said that Beehive didn't have a "book
room". It only said that they didn't have text books in their "book room". I
think that it is a much bigger problem to not have text books than not having a
(did you mean library?) "book room" since the students curriculum is based out
of textbooks instead of a general library.By the way, where did you get
your information about the head covering etc. or the janitors? Maybe you know
something that I don't but I sure can't find anything on their website about
janitorial staff or services. Last year, during the second semester, they
didn't have a janitor and would instead, delegate the janitorial duties to
students as a form of punishment.
Also, to those who are wondering why Beehive's science test scores are higher,
generally when you have parents who go out of their way to find a school for
their students, they are more involved in their child's education rather than
many lazy parents who barely know the name of the school their child goes
to--this could be an explanation, it's not necessarily the teaching.
As a parent of children who attend Beehive, it troubles me that this is how far
we've come. The truth is that my kids, for the most part, receive a fantastic
education. The truth also is that Beehive gives preference to Turkish teachers
(over highly qualified American teachers), my kids have had significant trouble
communicating with limited English speaking teachers and their grades in those
classes are definitely a result of that. This is a science and technology
school with no science labs, no technology to speak of and is poorly managed.
It's a shame that the administration has brought the school to the
brink. It's also an absolute disgrace that enrollments are still taking place
and people are not being told that they are handing over registration fee's to a
school that is not authorized to operate next year. Good luck getting your
money back if the appeal is unsuccessful!
Last summer I spent several weeks on vacation in Turkey and was alarmed and
stunned at how the government is shutting out everything and anyone that is not
Islamic--a radical departure from previous decades when tolerance was the
norm.Additionally, I applied to this school about 5 years ago and
had the strangest job interview of my life. I turned down their hastily
proffered job offer. When things seem amiss, they usually are.
Just remember, ONE BAD APPLE doesn't spoil the whole bushel! I do think this is
definitely worth looking into a lot farther! We need some state money back as
well, then reopen the school when the problems are gone.
Wow, this is the fourth comment I have written and none of them have been
posted. Does it not matter to the Deseret News that the reporting done in this
story is not correct? The protest was for a teacher that was put on
administrative leave. Nothing more. The school would not have the students
demonstrate on school time on their own property. The students were showing
their support to the teacher. The school has a janitorial service that comes in
every night after school. The teachers are given opportunities to go to
professional development seminars and conventions. They are paid to do this.
There is a book room at the school full of books and teachers supplies. I know
that female teachers are not asked to cover their heads or told that their place
in the home. Financially, the school is struggling, but they are moving in a
positive direction to recover from this. A fine piece of reporting? I think
not. If the students or their parents are not happy with the education they are
receiving, they have the right and obligation to find another school, yet, they
haven't. Enrollment has increased. Report the truth.
Thanks DesNews for a well-researched article! It was concise, well-written,
and informative I do not know upon what basis the school was
ranked in the top twenty, but it probably wasn't because of the Turkish teachers
who, as reported, could barely speak English. If the report is true (and
un-doctored by the school officials), then the reason is the concerned parents
who cared enough about their kids to put them into a charter school in the first
place. Parental caring and involvement is always the number one
criteria for student success. Public schools do a great job with what they are
given in the way of students. They turn out high numbers of successful students
in spite of student apathy and non-English speaking students and parents. With mom and/or dad behind him/her, almost every student can do well
in any school. There are endless possibilities in music, dance, sports, etc., in
the public school just as there are some advantages for others in the smaller
charter schools. But it's the parents that hold the keys.
I have always been suspect of the Charter School introduction into our Education
System. There appears to be little oversight or control by local authorities, or
at best, ignorance to the situations present! It is one more way we are being
quietly infiltrated by foreigners who have one interest...overthrowing America!
I think we need to wake up here and recognize what is happening and then have
the intestinal fortitude to close the schools by court order, and then stand by
while they are boarded up! For what purpose are they teaching the children to
speak Turkish???? Jihad is something parents should become familiar with.....I
fear heads are in the sand here, and we must do more to guard what is being
taught in our schools...and better still what is NOT being taught!!!!
Regarding curriculum, I'm more concerned that they might be teaching Turkish
creationist Harun Yahya's texts in science class than teaching jihad.
@mecr (9:23 a.m.)"And people is worried about illegal Latinos."They haven't thought of it yet. Give them time.
@raybies (9:02 a.m.):"Did you even read the part where the school
still scores top 20 in Utah!?"Any school can do it... just teach to
Behive needs a "screen" like being in the top 20 to hide all these anomalities.
It sure needs to be investigated further. It sounds at least as a scheme to make
money from our tax money. And people is worried about illegal
latinos. This is far more risky! And most at all, how in the name of heaven they
bring turkish people as teachers when there are so many teachers here that need
jobs? I don't pay taxes to help bringing turkish people with green cards, I paid
for education and to provide jobs to current american citizens or residents IN
@raybiesYou're right. If the article is right in that there is no
training for new teachers (at least for new American teachers) and many teachers
come from Turkey with no experience and little if any English skills, how are
they in the top 20 out of 160 schools?
Life Long Republican should know that there are many charter schools in the
state doing a great job, populated by the children of many other lifelong
Republicans. I recommend the DNews go check out some of those schools, like
Monticello Academy in West Valley City, Canyon Rim Academy in East Millcreek,
and American Preparatory Academy. DNews should also check out some the problems
at schools at Granite District schools, where there are struggles and problems,
not with Turks but with unhappy, incompetent adminstration and staff. That's
why the flight to charters, where parents are desperately in need of
alternatives like these charters. In my family's case, it has been a wonderful
contrast. I thank heaven for charter schools. Parents should wise up when
making their choices. I looked at Beehive and saw problems. If the State Board
has any power at all (which it doesn't seem to) and if it is into solving
problems, look at why the junior highs and elementary schools in GSD are so
It is amusing that people are calling for the charter schools to shut down. It
is like our public schools are all that wonderful. The political correctness in
this country is over the top and if the government would just enforce our laws
we could avoid situations like this.
Did you even read the part where the school still scores top 20 in Utah!? That's
why parents would send their kids there. The reporting did a great job of
pointing out the chaotic teaching environment, which I agree is WHACKO, but
still, even if there's a whole slew of rotten apples underneath the hood, to be
top 20 in testing says something really pathetic about the rest of the state's
Yet another nail in the charter school coffin. It is time to shut the whole
charter program down. It is obvious the parents are clueless here. Who in their
right mind would be sending their kids to a school like this?Too
many parents in Utah are in love with the charter concept and the appearance of
"eliteness" that it gives them. They don't even research who is behind the
school or who is teaching there. Where is the Utah Tax Payers
Association on this one? This school is using OUR TAX MONEY to fund immigration
from Turkey. Nice job Utah Tax Payers Association. This is what we want our
tax money spent on.I call for all legislators to shut down the
charter school program and return the money to our local schools where it should
be going.This is an outrage and a disgrace.Great job
reporting. I hope to hear much more about this story.
This is quite possibly the best reporting I've read all year in any paper
anywhere in the country. Well done!
An interesting note, you don't have to be an American Citizen to start up a
charter school in Utah. Is this the same in the other states? Are they passing
around the same charter application? All you have to do is have a charter that
will be accepted.
Now THAT'S reporting! Take that, Trib!
The call for Jihad is much more difficult in America because:1.
Americans are not as desperately poor people as the the recruiters for Islamic
Terrorist are used to and therefore less prone to be manipulated by money2.These organizations will not get "free" work out of Americans, who
because of generally being educated don't but into the jihad mentality as easily
as poverty driven minds.Shut down the school.
are the grade scores verifiable?is standard testing independently
administered and scored from the moment the test begins to the moment the
results is tallied ?this wouldn't be the first time a teacher, an
administrator, a school "fixed" a test.
Where are the adults here?Who is sending their kids to this school?Vote with your feet.Unless you want this trash poured into their
heads.Charter schools should be funded based on three things:~Student population.~Teacher certification.~Performance to
academic standards.Let's not blame the charter school concept here. We
need to weed out the agenda-driven, poorly managed schools.
This is an example of how so-called political correctness has made our leaders
far too soft. Instead of protecting the security of this Country, our leaders
are focused on avoiding anything that might avoid anybody. The Founding Fathers
would not have put up with the government funding extremist groups that have a
stated purpose of destroying this Country. Where are the statesmen of the past?
Looks like these kids are afraid of their own shadows. Maybe they need mommy and
daddy to hold their hand while they mill around trying to figure out what a
A majority of Turkish teachers in a Utah school seems very odd. It wouldn't in a
community with a large Turkish presence, but here it doesn't make sense.
Wow. This is kind of creepy. I think these schools and their connections need
to be investigated further.
Of course the school can't find qualified math and science teachers if they give
back a third of their supposed salary to this Gulen fellow. Sounds like a weird
conspiracy, indeed. Charter schools are not known for making their
educators rich, regardless the weird affiliation with a religious figure. what's sad is that with all the whackiness going on under the covers,
and the weird hiring practices and the many turkish immigrant teachers that they
continue to score so much better than state run schools that hire teachers with
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...