Utah Jazz notebook: Like Andrei Kirilenko before him, Mehmet Okur gets the boot

Return To Article
Add a comment
  • todd to rvalens2
    April 9, 2010 11:44 a.m.

    My mom asks me that all the time why I follow the Jazz when it is so frustrating, a sports addiction I guess

  • todd from santa ana
    April 9, 2010 12:09 a.m.

    I meant rvalens2 Moreno "does" want to win titles, that is why I support them 20 games a year or so in person,,,,1/2 off tickets half the time. The Jazz should have more deals like that

  • rvalens2
    April 9, 2010 12:08 a.m.

    Re: Todd in Santa Ana

    Don't get me wrong, I'd love for the Jazz to win an NBA championship. But in 40 years, I have never cheered for any team that won either a national or state championship.

    In all that time, only my beloved Utes have gone undefeated (in football).

    That's why when championships come they are so special, because they rarely happen for the little guys.

    By the way, it isn't that I dislike you. How can I. I don't even know you. I just wonder why you follow the Jazz when they seem to be driving you crazy...

    I sure wouldn't.

  • todd to rvalens2
    April 9, 2010 12:08 a.m.

    i am that passionate if not worse for the Broncos, Going to Angel games they have a similar run set like the Jazz with Scoscia being there 11 years.

    They believe in homegrown, but at least get a player or two a year that helps like Abreu last year and Hideko this year...I sense Moreno does not want to win titles-that is the mindset the Jazz need to get

  • todd to rvalens2
    April 9, 2010 12:05 a.m.

    I like Chuck Nunn a ton also, that was a classy thing you did have a good evening. Stinks lakers won maybe Dallas we can catch better for #3

  • rvalens2
    April 8, 2010 11:46 p.m.

    Re: Todd in Santa Anna

    I don't always agree with you but I do understand your criticism of the Jazz.

    Their Jekyll and Hyde play can be frustrating and I have to admit Jerry is often slow to adapt.

    That being said, the Jazz are not going to change until Jerry retires. I have accepted that and have decided to root for them anyway.

    I have been a Jazz fan ever since they moved to Utah. I don't claim to be an expert but do feel I can comment on the team's play.

    I love Chuck's comments that's why I tend to defend him when the "uninformed" think he is coming off as a buffoon who knows it all.

    I enjoy watching the NBA but I always try to remember that it's only a game.

    If the Jazz lose that doesn't make either YOU or ME a LOSER.

    It just makes us disappointed fans.

  • NGB
    April 8, 2010 8:59 p.m.

    Todd, I think we all want changes and we understand that you are knowledgable.

    But some of the readers feel you're not realistic. Yes we are tired of being second best, yes we want a championship, but we're not the only team that wants those things and we cant be expected to dump everyone and start from scratch because who knows if that's going to work.

    Look at cleveland, they've tried to do it for years. They even got the "chosen one" in lebron and even with the best player in basketball they still have yet to get a championship with him. No matter how much money they spend or redo the team's look with new role players, they seem to come up short.

    Though I think theyre the favorites to win this year, most of the NBA analysts do not.

    How can you expect everyone to get on your bandwagon when it hasnt worked for too many teams. The line between reality and fantasy seems faint when you speak about Sloan and the management of the jazz. Yes we would like those things, but are they realistic. It seems likely that they are not

  • todd to ngb
    April 8, 2010 8:57 p.m.

    I hear you loud and clear....Sloan cannot "make" players give effort-I said nothing about Fes, he is acting like a child that needs his lollipop...My point was we needed a big man at the deadline. I am tired of you guys blasting "Avery" I am not calling for Sloan firing. If they lose early in the playoffs I want him to be the "bigger man" and step down to give a new outlook and new approach. What does it matter if every year we are 50-32 or 41-41? What is the difference if the end result is the same. I know the Lakers are going to get calls.

    Many jobs ask Tommy Lasorda, it is called staleness. It is like a great Collector they cannot get into management most midlevel jobs reach a ceiling or limit with the inability to go higher. This system appears has limitations--If the Jazz win 2 rounds and lose in 6 or 7 to the Lakers I will live with it, but I do not see us getting that far...

  • Sick
    April 8, 2010 8:30 p.m.

    I got the sore throat and other symptoms about 10 days ago. Strenous exercise was not an option. I ached all over and frankly did not have the strenght much less the stamina to run, jump or even move quickly.

    Fez would be out there if he were useful.

    Okur has some wear on him and it just goes with the turf. He does play hurt but he is certainly not going to be effective in a walking boot. He is no help if he can't shoot or rebound.

    AK has a lot of miles on him and he also gets nagging injuries.

    For the Jazz to have a chance they have to have all of the starters healthy for the playoffs. AK and Okur need to heal for the playoffs. Fez will be ready in a few days.

    HOU was a collective no show. It was not just one or two players. Sloans philosophies doom the Jazz against a team like HOU. Don't defend the 3 is a bad start against HOU.

    However, most of it was the players who just did not have game that night.

  • todd to rvalens2
    April 8, 2010 8:16 p.m.

    I love Chuck rvalens2 and i am always on his site for intelligent analysis, We dont always agree. However, guess what I have listened to probably 1500 Jazz games over 30 years, subscribed to Home Court Magazine and Newsletters, spoke with people such as Gary Bender daughter in law Amy Bombard who used to work for the Jazz 20 years ago. I would listen to KSL in 20 win seasons EVERY GAME STRUGGLING TO PICK UP A SIGNAL BEFORE SUNDOWN.

    You do not like me I know, but sorry I and many others also know about the Jazz. Many of you will not be impartial. It is never "Jerrys Fault" It is always "they are hurt" "they are tired" "they are small market"

    Do you not get tired of defending most of what they do? Why do not you call them out Do you think Houston was not a joke?

    I root for the Uniform, the players, the team play, the good guys

    I want more than most of you


  • Chuck Nunn
    April 8, 2010 7:09 p.m.

    Thanks for the good word RV. Always good to hear from you!

  • Chuck Nunn
    April 8, 2010 7:07 p.m.

    Yeah, Monroe is on my short list of guys I'd like to see the Jazz draft this summer. Maybe the ping pong balls will bounce right and we can get into DeMarcus Cousins range.

  • rvalens2
    April 8, 2010 6:58 p.m.

    To those who question Chuck Nunn's posts on the Jazz:

    Please read more of them before you comment.

    The guy knows and understands basketball. He has been following the Jazz for a very, very long time.

    He's a sports reporter, and while that won't make him an expert in most of your eyes that's more than most people can say. Besides, in my opinion, he is usually spot on with what the Jazz should do.

    I for one am glad he comes here and posts.

  • NGB
    April 8, 2010 6:26 p.m.

    @Chuck Nunn, I can agree with fes being in a reserve role if he plays like he did against the hornets, ironic that Memo goes out twice against them, but we could use fes like he played last time against them. But i'm worried that like CJ, he's a little inconsistent with his defense and fouls. He had that game, then played against the suns like crap.

    The small line isnt scrappy enough to play many mins, i dont like it either as you said.

    Fes seems like to me how this team is, its a Jekyl and hyde syndrome is apparent and we can either expect an amazing performance from him or the Phx game.

    I actually think if we got a greg monroe in the draft we'd be in an ideal situation, small pf that works hard and a 6'11 PF that can pass and has great footwork around the basket. That with Fes developing behind memo instead of millsap would be the ideal situation next year.

    Here's to hoping Chuck!

  • Chuck Nunn
    April 8, 2010 5:51 p.m.

    "NGB", I appreciate your point a bit better, and it's well-argued, but I think that Fesenko can play a reserve role right now if he can beat this bug and get in a couple of games before the playoffs, especially given that Memo is injured and could use some rest before the first round starts. And although I'm not a fan of the small lineup that Coach often goes with, there is certainly no disputing the work that 'Sap has put into his game, and he is certainly worth keeping on the floor as much as possible. And given that the chances of Boozer coming back to Utah next season are not great, Paul can certainly be the starter at PF for Utah.

  • Anonymous
    April 8, 2010 5:50 p.m.

    Fair weather fans never changes. there are calling themselves fanz but there are not real fans cowards throwing friends under bus.

  • NGB
    April 8, 2010 5:29 p.m.

    This team might, slim chance, but if healthy, they might be able to make a run.

    So you're telling the front office, waste the money you spent on guys that have proven themselves when they've come back with more game, Millsap's jumper is 100% better from a year ago which is why an undersized PF is getting mins.

    Now I'm not saying this team is Ideal, it does need a bigger, more defensive minded center, but we dont have one that would fit the mold this year because Fes isnt on the same level as Dwill and Booz. When this team disbands, which i think booz is gone this summer so i'd say next year, then we should be trying to get fes or kk some 15 to 20 mins on a reg basis, but now it would hurt more then help a jazz team that has shown at times that they can compete with just about anyone in the league, next I dont think it will be the same case.

  • STD
    April 8, 2010 5:27 p.m.

    what's the shot clock in NCAA basketball? isn't it somewhere in the 60 sec range? to wait that long to see a shot go off, which is most of the time in NCAA basketball. Do they really need that much time to set up a shot? OH WAIT!! that's just good fundamental basketball. I would rather watch a 1-0 score soccer game than have to sit through an NCAA game

  • NGB
    April 8, 2010 5:25 p.m.

    It was a comparison Todd and Chuck, Curry is 7 ft 295 and has shown that he could have post moves like booz at times, but he's a head case and he's not playing, even though he's making that much money, he's riding the pine.

    Fes cant just be fed minutes for nothing or we're treating him like curry who thought he was entitled to something because he was big.

    Fes needs to show maturity, that he's actually an adult and realize this is a business, not just a game in college or on the play ground. He's so inconsistant, one game playing 41 mins the other fouls out at 9. feeding him mins isnt the answer chuck, he needs a tony dungy intervention to help him realize he's got the ability to demand play like shaq did and all he has to do is work.

    He doesnt though and thats why we dont see him.

    I agree with you guys that the potential is there, that we should try and give him some mins, but throwing 20 mins a game with this team isnt the solution

  • Has Chuck Nunn coached Jr Jazz
    April 8, 2010 4:47 p.m.


    Who made Chuck Nunn the authority on coaching or developing players?

  • todd to ngb
    April 8, 2010 4:30 p.m.

    eddy Curry?


    Who ever mentioned him?

  • Chuck Nunn
    April 8, 2010 3:53 p.m.

    "NGB" it's more than being freakishly big that makes Fesenko a valuable asset to the Jazz. He does have athletic ability and strength, and when he's had the chance, he's shown it. To compare him to Eddy Curry is just not a proper comparison, and nobody is advocating offereing Fess $10M to stay with the team next season. But he can be an NBA center, and he's shown that. He just needs to continue to be fed minutes on a consistent basis.

  • NGB
    April 8, 2010 3:08 p.m.

    I guess it's better to lose with FES, like Jazzcop and Todd would prefer, then win with guys that dont waste their talent or physical gifts because they think they are entitled to something.

    If Fes was a wing player, Jazzcop would say play Korver or him because Korver is king and todd would say he's not emotional ept to play basketball and it's Jerry's fault he's on the team.

    But because he's 7'1 we should just give him a free ticket because he's freakishly big, these are the same two guys that would ask us to get Eddy Curry from the Knicks because he's big and work ethic/attitude doesn't matter when you are that size.

    P.S. Eddy Curry gets paid 10 mill to score 3.9 pts and 1.9 rebs a game, bet the knicks were thinking just like Jazzcop and Todd when they made that trade.

  • Chuck Nunn
    April 8, 2010 2:35 p.m.

    I have to say, six games out of the 79 so far this season isn't that much, so although I appreciate Coach's comments to a degree regarding Fesenko, he's been available way more than he hasn't, so not getting him into the rotation as much as he needed to be can't be hinged on six missed games from illness. Also, I doubt that anyone who's been on the receiving end of one of Fesenko's hard fouls or had to try to fight around his block-outs would way that he's soft. The criticisms of Okur and Kirilenko over their injuries is unfair as well, although the frustration is understandable. I'm just pulling for Fess to be feeling up to snuff for Friday's game and hopefully we get AK and Memo back before the playoffs.

    Peace out from the Jazz Oracle!

  • Dang
    April 8, 2010 2:25 p.m.

    Fes. You gotta toughen up man. We need you and you will get a chance now that Okur is in a boot. Take some pepto bismo, eat some vitamin C, have a little faith and go play NBA basketball man. If only I was seven feet tall...

  • LKA
    April 8, 2010 2:04 p.m.

    I agree with thank you. and by the way thank you for making my day!!

  • @ No more guaranteed contracts!
    April 8, 2010 1:50 p.m.

    Right on! This is the real problem! The players get payed whether they play or not. NO PLAY...NO PAY!

  • todd from santa ana
    April 8, 2010 12:53 p.m.

    Hail to Sokol and Jazz Cop, they took the words right out of my mouth, of course rvalens2 rivals Blaunch and Doug as homers... However, the truth is expect Okur or seemingly anyone outside Deron when "50-50" whether to play or not, "0-100" they will not.

    Last night was a despicable effort, I predicted the 3 ball, i could see when they tipped off the game was lost- Midrange jumpers wide open, Hayes crashing the boards, Boozer and Okur and even Matthews just watching-biggest game of year and likely cost Jazz division title.

  • Sokol
    April 8, 2010 12:33 p.m.

    Okur, kirilenko and Fesenko...are softies. Thez spend more time riding the pine than any three players in the NBA...Kirilenko makes Boozer look like an Ironman..
    Kirilenko is the Jazz max player, lets not forget..
    There never was a reason to give this guy as much cash as say Malone, Stockton or Williams...
    Really people if he was not in the lineup permanently would anyone really care...The problem is people like Durant and Odom are too big for our tiny cadrea of swashbuckling second rounders and nameless gym rats....All of the NBA is finding out that Euro players are as soft as the Euro, but as bloated as ever with hype and expensive contracts.

  • rvalens2
    April 8, 2010 12:17 p.m.

    Re: Thank you... @ 11:56 a.m.

    "Its pretty rare to have such an esteemed group of basketball geniuses all in one place."

    You're right ...

    Amazing group of posters on this forum, every one of them an Einstein or Newton.

    Unfortunately, that's Fig Newton and Rodney Einstein.


  • Thank you...
    April 8, 2010 11:56 a.m.

    I would like to thank the Deseret News for this posting forum. Its pretty rare to have such an esteemed group of basketball geniuses all in one place.

  • re: NCAA basketball is
    April 8, 2010 11:19 a.m.

    I have been in classes with several college basketball players, at a couple of universities.
    These players are not very good players who are pretending to be students.
    Anyone who is a great college basketball player these days leaves after their freshman year.
    You are watching guys who usually aren't good students or that great of basketball players.

    Players don't come to class, they get free tutors, who know exactly what is on the exams.
    Good college basketball players take 1 easy semester their fall semester, pass those classes.
    Then they don't have to do anything, as they know they will leave after the 2nd semester, so they don't care if they fail in the second semester, because it ends after March madness and they'll be gone after that.

  • Cathie
    April 8, 2010 10:46 a.m.

    I stand by the Jazz regardless of all the media hype, even in the Stockton n Malone era the Jazz were under-rated so whats new? GO JAZZ!! Deron Williams is a solid point guard, all the others have an off night too but no one focuses on them!

  • Jazzfan 8
    April 8, 2010 10:35 a.m.

    Great. I had a nice laugh at that stupid who says foreign players are foreign to play through injuries.
    1) Memo's injuries and number of games missed due to injuries is MUCH MUCH less than CArlos' who is a AMERICAN.
    2) Memo Okur played whole lakers series in 07/08 series with two serious injuries and avreaged better numbers than CArlos who was said to have family problems.
    3) Memo risked his health and tried to play in games 4 and 5 of LAL-UTAh series last year.
    4) Name me a game in which Carlos tried to play through injuries.
    5) Memo had a 250+ consecutive games played record while Carlos has showed up only in %60-70 possible games.
    6) AK and CArlos are two of most vulnerable sissy soft players when it comes to accept the physical punishment and hardiness.
    Any question?

    I hope Memo will be OK. We need a full roster and still have a chance to finish in top3. Take care Memo.

  • GoodGuyGary
    April 8, 2010 9:41 a.m.

    What does sore throat do to playing basketball. Headache? I think Fesenko is headache to the team.

  • Jazz Cop
    April 8, 2010 9:35 a.m.

    This is sloans excuse for not doing what he doesn't want to do, blame it on fesenko. could the case be different if sloan was actually sincere in wanting to play fesenko, yes, posssible, very possible, it is for sloan to eliminate the human factor in his dealings with other humans, beware, when dealing with sloan, you deal not with another human, this person is so wrapped up in his own beliefs about things, so far off base, so blind to reality, so callous towards a human element in things, and, a master of self contradiction and finger pointing.

    this team was not prepared, it is sloans job to make sure the team is prepared, sloan just shows up=team character, no planing, no thinking ahead, while the others who plan and think ahead obviously have a huge advantage over us and the jurassic methods that many of the fans support, this old skool stuff is garbage, i'm so over it.

    that said, if okur is injured, at thsi point of the year you have to start millsap, sloan will probably start koufus instead, wrong time to get the rookies some time bub.

  • NCAA basketball is
    April 8, 2010 9:33 a.m.

    where the true competition is!

  • Playing in pain........
    April 8, 2010 9:30 a.m.

    ........it is foreign to the Foreigners. Memo, AK, Giracek, Fesenko..........when they hurt....they do no play!

  • No more guaranteed contracts!
    April 8, 2010 8:43 a.m.

    Team owners need to allow the NBA to go extinct before they agree to guaranteed deals in the coming negotiation process. The NFL is the monstrous success that it is because players can be cut at any time. Players in the NFL are forced to give their best effort or they find themselves out of a contract. NBA players get guaranteed money. Fesenko can relax at the beach with a "sore throat" and a "headache" whenever he feels like it because he gets his money no matter what.

  • Calgary Jazz
    April 8, 2010 8:18 a.m.

    to no more: I think your very own american player Boozer missed more games then all foreign players combined.

  • okur
    April 8, 2010 7:47 a.m.

    should have been pulled 2 quater you could tell by watching him he wasent right. i just said they are playing him to much. you would think the coaches would have seen that if i did? fes is probly tired of getting aBUSED BY SLOAN NEVER ANY THING GOOD TO SAY LOOKS LIKE HE KNEW THEY WOULD BE PLAYING HIM ALOT THE LAST SEVERAL GAMES AND GOT SICK.I THINK HIM AND KUFUS WANT OUT.

  • josemb
    April 8, 2010 2:37 a.m.

    as i pointed out in my previous post, fesenko must be a really sickly person! he missed so many games because of illnesses not related to basketball. i thought pro athletes get all the best medical and nutritional care. apparently not fesenko.

  • No more
    April 8, 2010 1:28 a.m.

    Foreign players. The Jazz need to learn their lesson. If Memo has had a sore achilles the last couple games he hadn't shown it lately, but that has been the pattern lately he will take time off then play a few games then find more excuses to not play then come back a few games then more excuses WE ARE SICK OF IT. It seems that Fes has watched our "star" players take time off for things they don't need to be missing games for and he is developing a bad habit of finding excuses to not play and still get paid. This Jazz organization needs a complete overhaul starting with SLown. He has planted a seed of decent but still mediocre play on this team for many many years. Our foreign players are about as strong as cardboard, and our two best players dont play with any heart in the games that matter. When will us tru Jazz fans get a team we can be proud of????? It is getting very taxing to follow this team its hard on your heart and stress levels