"What other examples of knowledge trumping religious dogma can you provide?"How about all of human history in terms of science and philosophy.
Religious dogma, by definition, is not proven. Knowledge is actually proven.
It was gained and was supported through science, not religion.
@realitycheckknowledge trumping religious dogmaJonah living in
the belly of a fishMethuselah being 900 yrs oldThe lyric "it
ain't necessarily so" should be paying in your head
"all I know is - college (excluding BYU of course)tends to make people less
religious, since religious dogma cannot stand the light of knowledge"You keep telling a lie long enough and it just might take hold. What
religious dogma has not been able to stand the light of knowledge? There must
be a better example than the one you gave of coffee. For the record, there has
yet to be a study that confirmed coffee to be "good" for you in any amount. At
best, in small amounts (and most people cannot limit themselves to small
amounts), it is not harmful. That's not the same as "good for you."But that's a very, very minor point. What other examples of knowledge
trumping religious dogma can you provide?
@Re:MarkUnfortunately the censors here won't let my response be
published, but there are schools/academies in Utah, that might make you less
than proud. As someone with half my family from Utah, they certainly made me
less proud of Utah.
"I've NEVER read of a moderate or liberal group wonder what political leanings a
college may foster...NEVER."Of course they don't wonder or worry,
because they know that their college kids are being brainwashed with
liberalism.Utah is a different case (thank goodness for that), and
although I have never grown up outside Utah, I served a mission in liberal
Chicago and have had companions who have grown up outside Utah. They do
brainwash! Starting from elementary the teachers pound liberal political ideas.
Here in Utah, very rarely have I had a teacher talk politics (only 3 have, and
2 were liberal).I've seen the way liberal societies work and the way
conservative societies work, and by far the latter produces a much better
community and environment. The LDS church plays a large part in our
environment, whether you like it or not, and the church's ideas are more
conservative than liberal. Utah is a state I can be proud of because of its
Why don't Conservatives worry more about their children ending up EDUCATED after
college, rather than if they are moderate, liberal, or conservative.It's
ONLY conservative folks who worry about what political views younger people have
in college, I've NEVER read of a moderate or liberal group wonder what political
leanings a college may foster...NEVER.
We need a balance between conservative and liberal. I don't know if that's
possible, but it would be preferred. We are becoming more and more liberal and
what has that done for us? Our best days are behind us. Now we just have to
learn to survive. Each person has his own way. As for my household, we will
serve the Lord.
No, college makes you smarter. Republicans and conservatives tend to
use tactics like propaganda (ie Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck, Bill O'riley, etc)
instead of calm rational arguments. People who are educated tend to relate more
to science and logic more than loud fiery propagandistic arguments. If conservatives want to relate more to to educated people they should try not
getting angry and loud about everything and instead try making arguments that
would hold water on a piece of paper.
Does college make you liberal? Not if you go to BYU!My choice to
become liberal came after years of living in the trenches of northern orange
county CA. Seeing the good, poor people struggling for a break made me realize
that, just because the system gets abused, does not mean the system is bad.Blame the abuser, not the system. And I've seen way more abuse in UT
than anywhere else.
Is that so?...How then do you explain those "Liberal" students
standing up to the consevative Communists in Tiananmen Square?
Winston Churchill said that if you are not a socialist at 20 your have no heart.
If you are a socialist at 30 your have no head.
The college experience today differs greatly from yesteryear.Today's
University's are nothing more than a communist re-education camp.They now
specialize in revisionist history and spew propaganda into the kids minds as
fast as they can.
It is true that the trend is that the more educated a person becomes, the less
religious he becomes. However, the LDS church is an exception to that trend;
studies show the exact opposite for LDS members (they become more religious with
more education, and the more religious they are, the more educated they get).It is also interesting to note that most Mormons are conservative (look
at Gallop poll). Coincidence? I think not.To True Mormons are
Liberals: Political issues in 1844 are very different from politics today.
There isn't enough space to cover all of them, so I'll discuss just a few
points:Socialism vs United Order-- really? United Order is 100%
voluntary (it only works that way anyway), not forced upon people like Socialism
is.Women's Rights-- you realize the church opposed the Equal Rights
Amendment? Yeah, that idea has changed. A lot.Welfare-- the
church's welfare differs quite a bit from the liberals' welfare.Marriage-- Mormons support TRADITIONAL marriage.Free Speech--
yeah, Bush was very evil, trying to shut down all those talk shows (sarcasm
implied).Religion-- liberals want NO religion, not free religion.Need I go on?
Hey, I agree with the labels poster. For example, I lean liberal, but I by no
means support abortion as a form of birth control. So what am I, a LINO... or
a RINO.... or, well, not sure what I am supposed to be. So I am independent.
Those who think people who are liberal or conservative all fit into
these nicely defined boxes really underestimate those around them. And that
shows a lot of arrogance on both sides.
Thomas S. Monson - 3 Hon. Doctorates, MBA, and B.S.Henry B. Eyring -
Professor, Doctorate, MBA, B.S.Dieter F. Uchtdorf - Hon. Doctorate, MBA,
BABoyd K. Packard - Ed.D., M.S. and B.S.Richard G. Scott -
Doctorate Nuclear Eng., B.S. Mech. Eng.Dalin H. Oaks - Doctorate, M.S,
B.A.Russell M. Nelson - M.D., Ph.D., B.A.Jeffrey R. Holland - Ph.D.,
M.A., B.A.Some are Conservative,Some are
Liberal.Some are Democrats,Some are Republicans.Some are Americans,Some are from Socialist countries.The
point is, an education is of the utmost importance.The Prophet
Joseph Smith taught, that a man can not be saved in ignorance.The Glory of God IS intelligence.
the SlavesSocialism - United OrderWomen’s Rights (prior to
Women’s Suffrage)Universal Welfare ProgramsNon-traditional
MarriagesFree SpeechFree Religion (who, where, what they may)Sustaining VoteExtremely Progressive Immigration policiesLiberal concepts then -- Liberal concepts now.~Peace
I find in my discussions with most liberals, that they argue from their
emotional ideal center. That's fine, but conservative thought takes a more
rational view of how to solve problems. Conservatives build fences at the top of
the cliff. Liberal progressives send ambulances to the bottom.Education leads to knowledge, but it doesn't always lead to wisdom.
I must admit that if I were to judge these posts I would have to quote Billy
Madison, "We are all dumber for having read this. You receive no points and may
God have mercy on your collective souls."This has been nothing more
than name calling and backbiting from both ends of the political spectrum. Does
it really matter what happens to one if they come out as college a "liberal" or
"conservative". Right now I propose something new and thus becoming a liberal
and making many of you all conservatives. Let me propose that our current
parties are absolutely broken and torn apart by the wings of the parties. I
therefore propose a new part even a party that's main underlying tenant is that
a good idea is a good idea no matter what the source. The party will be based
upon moderate middle of the road planks and holding to the truths reserved
within the constitution. Such as freedom of and from religion. The right to bear
arms with certain restrictions. Freedom of speech with certain restrictions. To
name a few.
all I know is - college (excluding BYU of course)tends to make people less
religious, since religious dogma cannot stand the light of knowledge. if the bible or BoM says you should not drink coffee, but science class and
health studies tells you it is ok in moderation, students rightfully question
why they aren't supposed to drink it. If the answer is "God is against it" then
that makes no sense, and they can see right through it. (especially when God
couldn't care less about coffee....) So it leads to questions about anything
religion says where the act doesn't have any impact and is simply written in
some old book.they also begin to understand that these old books are
not history books, and that the stories are simply analogies.
"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." ~ Stephen Colbert.
"At UVU, we don't encourage them to change their point of view, just to be
well-educated on the issues."The problem is that if you express a
conservative point of view in college, they see that as being uneducated,
regardless of how well you back it up. "Being well-educated on the issues" is
just code for adopting the liberal point of view. Besides, the left decides what
the "issues" are at college in the first place. Every conservative at college
finds out really fast that if they want to graduate with good grades, they
better fall in line and tell the professor exactly what they want to hear. No
thinking allowed. Liberal leaning students don't ever have the burden of having
to back up all of their opinions. They just regurgitate what the professor tells
them. Conservative students, if they wish to express their opinions, spend lots
of time digging up statistics, facts, historical records, only to have their
professor reject their opinions as "uneducated" anyway.
Academic translations:Open-minded and tolerant -- descriptive of a
died-in-the-wool liberal, pro-abortion, anti-religion, anti-US, anti-business,
anti-capitalist, unskilled in anything important to society, tree-hugging,
anti-freedom true believer, who will never be swayed by any argument contrary to
his own unreasonable and unfounded beliefs.In other words, a college
professor.Bigoted -- descriptive of a conservative, regardless
of education level, race, religion, charitable inclination or experience. One
who loves the United States, its founding documents, and the democratic system
they produced before being attacked and eroded by liberals [see "Open-minded and
tolerant, above]. A businessman. Someone concerned for innocent human life,
the traditional family, quality and quantity of life, and freedom. A person who
distrusts government but is supremely confident in the inclination and abilities
of people.In other words, the rest of us.
So, because I am a liberal I have less value? I think not.
Being born and raised in a conservative LDS home I have something to say.TO ALL CONSERVATIVES: face reality, in order to survive in the world
today you cannot pretend like it does not exist. And your children will need
educations so they can get jobs that can support families, think about it. And
recognize that your children didn't write the rules to the game of life. So stop
disowning us when we try to survive today.
The liberal agenda is out to get you! The Conservative agenda said
"FWIW; Mississippi has the highest per capita rate of church goers and the
highest illeteracy rate? "If you must thumb your nose at the
reading and writing skills of others, please spell "illiteracy" correctly while
you do so. Also I'd have to point out that correlation doesn't prove
causation. There are a lot of social, cultural, historical, and economic issues
faced by the southern states, their problems are complex enough that you need to
do a lot more than simply point out that religion and illiteracy are correlated
to prove that religion, as an institution, causes a lack of education wherever
it occurs. As I've said before, there have been times in history where nearly
all literate people in Western society were involved in churches or monasticism.
In fact, there are some very fine Jesuit universities today (Georgetown,
Washington University-St. Louis). I'm considering a graduate program at a
Southern Baptist university (not a baptist myself). BYU is a great school,
especially the law program.
re: Anonymous | 11:36 a.m. March 1, 2010 Dennis Miller back when he
was funny once quipped, "Alabama is Darwin's waiting room."Your
Even if colleges caused more people to become liberal, and I don't believe you
made that case...so what?It is perfectly legal to hold liberal views in
this country, what is ILLEGAL is trying to force someone against their will to
believe something, which seems more what the "CONCERNED" "Focus on the FAMILY"
and "National Organization for Marriage" folks try to foist on our population.
You might want to check out the web site of the group that did this survey. I
don't think this is any kind of non-partisan think tank. The link is in the
@George Nada- That's just the South. I lived in Alabama and the non religious
were equally as illiterate as the religious.
I had a hard time understanding this article. In the opening paragraph I get
the impression Moore is suggesting that the liberal college professors are not
open minded or tolerant.Yet when I read the article Dr. Englehardt
sounded as much or more open minded and tolerant to me than did Mr. Mero.Maybe I'm not sure what it means to be open minded and tolerant.
I find it interesting and delusional that liberals talk of being liberal to be
compassionate to the poor when various studies have consistently shown that
conservatives give more generously of both time and money to the poor. Liberals
are good at emoting compassion with other peoples money in the form of
government handouts. I know a highly educated liberal acquaintance who admitted
the truth that he believed in gov handouts to minorities in order to "through
them a bone and keep them happy". Conservatives believe in empowering all
people to succeed whether they are educated or not.
I am a college graduate.1)I am against same-sex marriage.2)I am
against abortion on demand.3)I support prayer in public schools. (I grew
up with that experience in the 50's).4)I believe the bible is holy
scripture.5)To be economically healthy, spend less than you make.
Save something. live within your means. If you want something, labor
honestly for it. Help your neighbor when they are in need. Don't
steal. Be kind to others. Be true to your marriage vows.6)YOU
GUESSED IT. I AM A CONSERVATIVE.
Quote: "The ISI's survey of 2,508 U.S. adults shows that graduating from college
"does not significantly impact a person's views on economic issues," nor does it
significantly influence a person's "civic knowledge" – their understanding
of American history, government or foreign affairs."So, what exactly
are these people studying?
re: Illiterate people | 5:12 p.m. Feb. 26, 2010 FWIW; Mississippi
has the highest per capita rate of church goers and the highest illeteracy rate?
"Does college make one liberal? Gosh, i sure how so. I don't want my
kids--future college students--to follow conservatism's key tenets of greed and
callous disregard for the poor."Let me know which school you send
your kids to and I'll send mine elsewhere. I don't want my kids to learn
laziness, entitlement and corruption. And when you don't get your way, whine
loud and sue everyone. That's the liberal way!
"People who go to college tend to be more intelligent than the average
population. Since they are smarter there is a greater likelihood they will be
liberal. It all makes perfect sense."This is an age old myth with no
proof. As proof to the contrary, I can tell you that many of my friends and I
have IQ's well above average with multiple college degrees. We run businesses
and a few of us teach at the university in the evening to young minds thirsting
for real world education rather than pontifications from ivory towerites who
have not so much as ever made change for a $5 bill.Given the fact
that liberalism has never worked at any time in any place and that taken to its
end, it has to be mandated by force, I think it's safe to conclude that
liberalism and intelligence are not related in any way.
Does college make one liberal? Gosh, i sure how so. I don't want my
kids--future college students--to follow conservatism's key tenets of greed and
callous disregard for the poor.
Liberal and LDS writes, "Remember, we're supposed to depend on ourselves first,
then our family, then the Church, and the government comes in dead last. We're
supposed to be anxiously engaged in good causes, not compelled to do good."This may all work fine if you're a Mormon living in Utah, but what if
you're not? When caring for the poor, sick, and infirm is left up to biased
individual citizens, aid gets distributed in a way that is fundamentally
The internet killed religion! Open the gates and let the roman lions out!
Some of the most heinous chapters of human History is when persuasive leaders
gave a stupid uneducated populace, or a desperate populace, or a frightened
populace, SIMPLE answers to complex problems, many times it was to blame a
scapegoat,(could be Jews, could be gays, could be women accused as witches,
could be Mormons, could be Muslims.)The intelligensia, the educated
citizens QUESTION those simple answers, mobilize against those leaders, then
they are attacked and silenced.
@Liberal and LDSAt the time of the writing of the Gospels, Israel was
under foriegn occupation of Rome. Of course there would be no giving to the
government to provide for the poor, it wasn't the Jew's own government, and Rome
could have cared less what became of poor, or sick, or hungry/thirsty Jews, that
wasn't their citizens.
*yawn*This article is a waste of time. Conservatism has always been
scared of the enlightened. What university indoctrination? This is a myth.
There is just a strong correlation between being well educated and being
I was radically progressive begining in Junior High School, college didn't alter
that for me, it also wasn't the cause. I did meet more people who shared my
views in college, and some challenged me to broaden my interests and concerns,
which made me BETTER.As for becoming conservative with age, hasn't
happened in my late 50's, and my Mormon grandmother until she died in her late
70's, was still a diehard fan of FDR, and would have happily had him as
president another 3 terms.
Having an education is critical, right now the US is struggling to compete with
other countries. And people are arguing if you are college grad you're a
liberal communist. Come on man, its up to the individual who they want to be
not the school. Its all about you, if you want to have a conservative or
liberal attitude. LDS church leaders as well as our President has encouraged us
to get an education. We are falling behind, we need to show our children a
better education programs, make them bilingual, and make them better mathematics
and technology. Its sad when countries like Germany and China are smarter than
Please show me where in the scriptures we're supposed to hand over our money to
the government to distribute to the poor? Please show me where any prophet or
general authority has advocated the government as a good solution to helping
widows and orphans? Because I can come up with plenty of quotes showing that
charity begins at home, not the government welfare office. Remember, we're
supposed to depend on ourselves first, then our family, then the Church, and the
government comes in dead last. We're supposed to be anxiously engaged in good
causes, not compelled to do good.
Could you start with, perhaps, a less biased title to the article. Yes I am more
Liberal having gone to college, but I see that as a continuation of important
principle of the Gospel, such as feeding the hungry, clothing the naked,
comforting the despairing (to paraphrase from the Savior), or caring for the
widow, the orphan, the disenfranchised as a hallmark of true religion (see the
Epistle of James). Yes, I am more Liberal, because that's what I am taught by
the Prophet, not as politics but as compassion. PS, my degree was in Bible.
liberal Larry | 5:38 p.m. Feb. 26, 2010 People who go to college
tend to be more intelligent than the average population. Since they are smarter
there is a greater likelihood they will be liberal. It all makes perfect
senseAgreed and there are a lot of things that can make you "smart"
besides college. Everyone should get to live in Cleveland, St. Louis, detroit or
DC for awhile.From my observation the youth who are born & raised
and then work for Dad and take over the business have the biggest problems. They
may even run the business successfully, but as far as feeling and understanding
what others think and having a good basic for their opinions are often the
worst.The attitude of "DON'T CONFUSE ME .... with the alternatives,
my mind is already made up" is apparent in many.I agree with
the article that we may not change our ideas but we should be open to hear
others and ready to explain our values in an intelligent way to others.To vote for someone because you like red-headed people and nothing will change
you mine is part of that attitude.
I'll take my Bachelor's degree any day over the "lifelong" listening to Hannity,
Glenn Beck and Limbaugh.When totalitarian forces want to overturn a Nation
and silence it's critics, (whether radical Right fascisim, or radical Left
communism) they attack the COLLEGES, and it's professors and students, because
those citizens KNOW what History has shown to be dangerous.
the term "Educated Idiot". Sure there are many who think they have a ton of
education from various prestigious institutions, but I found many do not have
wisdom. I'll take wisdom over education everyday. And yes, I have a college
Regard Conservatism = truth. Health care may not be a right but it is a moral
issue. How can we call ourselves a christian nation when millions of americans
have no access to basic health care. What you are advocating is called social
darwinism or everyone for themselves. If you don't have insurance or the money
for medical care just go crawl in a hole and die. The constitution provides
government the right to promote the general well being. Millions of citizens
living in poverty is not the general well being. True conservatism is total
selfishness or in other words let those who don't succeed fall by the wayside
regardless of how hard they have tried. Read the scriptures and focus on
charity. Helping the poorest of the poor is not socialism it is a measure of
I'm a college senior, and the two things that have most bothered me are the
students who BLINDLY FOLLOW the viewpoint of their liberal professors, and those
who pretend to be "liberal" (aka secular) only because it is the COOl and
POPULAR thing to do. These students are the exact opposite of what they think
Osama bin Laden is a Conservative.Papa Doc was a Conservative.Every
South African Apartheid president was a a Conservative.Stalin was a
Conservative.Hitler was a Conservative.Dick Cheney is a
Conservative.Sarah Palin is a Conservative.Jesus Christ was a
Liberal.Gandhi was a Liberal.Joseph Smith was a Liberal.When comparing Conservatives and Liberals it is easy for me to decide whose
company I would want to be in.
Many students, liberal or conservative, don't need higher education to construct
a proper sentence. So, the poster at 10:09, missed the chance at credibility
with the name "Why students get more liberal." I believe it should be, become
more liberal. No matter. The author then listed various professions bent on
massing liberals. Perhaps he never heard of these Actors (Charlton Heston),
Musicians (Ted Nugent), Pro Athletes (Curt Shilling), Career Politicians (a
twofer with former MLB player, Republican Sen. Jim Bunning) and Academician
(Bill Bennett went to Harvard--does that count?).But the best was
this gem from WSGML: The only major exception to this is with union members, who
are captive to their hyper-liberal indoctrinating union leadership and fearful
of falling out of step. Huh? What? Seems clear who is really fearful
of falling out of step.
To tell the truth, when I left for college, I was a liberal. That sometimes
happens to 18 year olds. When I got there, I met other liberals,
which were a rarity in my home town. Some of those liberals were my professors,
and I still hold high regard for them. But most of the liberals my age I found
to be strange, melancholic, self-important, unintelligent, emotionally unstable,
incredibly dogmatic people that shout a lot. I thought a lot of them probably
had terrible childhoods and never got over the baggage. Once I
mentioned a guest lecture from an environmental scientist that told us that
aluminum recycling pollutes the environment so severely that he doesn't do it
anymore. They actually yelled at me. In a class discussion. They're like those
things on Doctor Who. Luckily I took mostly science classes so there weren't
many I had to put up with. When I graduated, I was a conservative.
Working with state regulators later confirmed my decision.
I am amazed at how weak families must be in that universities can change so much
about people- must be a failure in the home to teach anything and give any
foundation that all these blank slates show up to college and we prof. fill
their brains with whatever we like- this researfch is flawed at so many levels
it is just not worth commenting on- notice how it is self published becuase
these results would not make it into a 3rd tier journal let alone one worth
anything- in a tenure file this work would get you denied tenure as opposed to
help you- sad we have all wasted so much time and space on this- worthless at
many levels- interestiung questions that need research but this is not it
"As people do better, they start voting like Republicans - unless they have too
much education and vote Democratic, which proves there can be too much of a good
thing. " Karl Rove
"Does college make people more liberal?"I hope so.
"Now I understand why Republicans are so against education. If people become
smart, they become liberal. We certainly can't have that."I love
statements like yours because they are flawed in so many ways. If you don't mind
please allow me to add to your ultra-intelligent comment: You forgot to mention
all those well educated immigrants from south of the boarder who vote for
liberals, the inner-city poor with their ivy league universities do the same,
and don't forget the low-income PhD's living in the ghetto. Yep, you're right.
They all vote for liberals because years of education and reading have lead them
to that conclusion.To quote the popular vernacular..."LOL"
It's a fair statement that education makes one break free of the superstitions
of the past.
Why do Conservatives seem to always think liberals hate them just because they
don't agree with them? I believe the better educated a person becomes the more
likely they are to take the middle ground and judge each issue on it's own
merit, education makes one more prone to look at many sides of an issue. As the
populace become more educated the more independent thinkers and voters we be
come. People are not being sucked into either party as in the past and are
laughing at the talking heads of TV, both liberal and conservative. People are
thinking for them selves and using their free agency in decision making.
My problems with liberals is not that they are "as idle as you accuse me of
wanting to be"... It's trying to force your FANTACY world ideas on me in the
REAL world.I'd love the world of free flowing milk and honey as
well, but it's not going to happen in this day and age. It didn't work in the
communist/socialist/liberalist USSR and it won't work here either. As long as
the liberal belief includes "ENTITLEMENT, the liberal agenda will only make
things worse.Like I said before... send me your money to fill my
needs. I'm as "ENTITLED" as anyone. If you want everyone to give, give, give...
might as well give to me.
Visit the ISI website (link at the bottom of the article) and take the quiz.
How well did you do? Do you consider it a good quiz?
Education is a good thing | 11:13 -As a member of an old established
liberal church, I'm wondering if liberal Christians fall into your "unworthy of
education" category also? you seem to assume all Christians are hard line
conservatives, whereas I do not find the actual teachings of Christ to be
compatible with contemporary aggressive commando style conservatism.A Dream Life... | 11:38 a.mAs a liberal who owns a business, in my
fantasy world it would be a land of free flowing milk and honey for everyone
however reality is and probably always will be a 60 hour work week. But if my
investments and hard work pay off I intend to remain just as idle as you accuse
me of wanting to be. Oh, horrors!
So I guess most of you think that people shouldn't go to college and learn
anything? You are probably the same people who are posting in the earthquake
story that the earthquake and impending tsunami are because of unrighteousness.
Earth's forces are easy to pigeon-hole into "God's wrath" rather
than learning about Geology, Meteorology, etc. Yes, I'm a college
grad from a religious school and I am as liberal as can be. I also work hard,
do not have a sense of entitlement, and understand civics, economics, etc.
Religions want to keep people uneducated, or at least keep them indoctrinated in
their faith. It is easier to control them that way.
I went to university later in life, and I am more liberal now than before I
went.University didn't teach me to be more liberal.1) It
taught me to think critically, to examine in depth any argument.2)
It taught me to pay attention to both sides of an argument.I am more
liberal now because I realize the foundations that caused my deep conservatism,
were somewhat faulty. Where it was shaky I replaced it with a more sure
foundation.Now I see truth in all philosophies, conservatism,
liberalism, capitalism and socialism. Its ironoc that in a way I have returned
to my roots, as Paul says, "Prove all things, hold fast to that which is true".
Oops... instead of I "DESERVE", it should be I'm "ENTITLED"!
I kind of like the liberal viewpoint... I've worked for a few years now. I'm not
at retirement age yet, but I want to quit work, so I think I will. So, all you
liberals... start sending your money my way. I still have needs you know... a
new house, a new car, a new TV, a trip to Europe. I "DESERVE" all those things
and I am in "NEED"!
It turns out that common sense is intrinsically more important than education.
A person with good common sense is a smart person. A person with poor common
sense will always be an idiot no matter how many facts and figures and theories
you cram into his brain. He can't compute. That defines liberals, they can't
compute. They may be educated but they don't understand how to use it. Exactly
describes Obama, for example. A person with common sense understands that he
can also be a faithful person. A person with no intrinsic intelligence will
never have faith and will never understand how to use his education, so it will
be wasted. Education is wasted on the liberal, they still are not intelligent
and they have a warped view of the world.
Christian missionaries must take Biblical Greek 101.The Greek
Septuagint(the Apostles O.T.)when compared to the JST(inspired Version) totally
refutes, JST Genesis 1-6, Which is where the Book of Moses is extracted from." If the Glory of God is intelligence,Why not use it?"
I'll take your last statement one step further.Liberalism =
Progressivism = big govnerment = no personal freedom or liberty or personal
responsibiliy. Their idea is do whatever you want and don't worry
about the consequences. If it feels good do it, and don't think about the road
it puts you on. Someone else will bail you out later.
Why does the Desnews continue to use Mero and his Sutherland institute as a
source for all things political? Give a group a name and suddenly they are
qualified to state their opinions authoritatively on any subject. Ridiculous.
That Mero is even allowed to claim that his group is somehow a safe-haven for
independent thought is laughable. Prove it Mero. Give me one documented instance
of an idea not fully capable of passing the conservative purity test that has
ever been given serious consideration in your "institute." An education does not
create liberalism; it defeats totalitarianism.
"Intercollegiate Studies Institute" sure sounds like an objective,
non-ideological organization. Something I learned from my "liberal" college
education was to do a little digging and not readily accept information at face
value. It's website says, "Every study shows that the university is dominated
by liberal professors. It is no wonder this country is currently on a slippery
slope to socialism. Young Americans need to know their history. They cannot
win battles if they cannot win arguments." OBJECTIVE???Its online
bookstore carries "Conservative books from yeterday and today." According to
its website, Ronald Reagan said, "By the time the Reagan Revolution marched into
Washington, I had the troops I needed - thanks in no small measure to the work
with American youth ISI had been doing since 1953. I am proud to count many ISI
products among the workhorses of my two terms as President."Of
course Americans are historically and civically illiterate. We must work to fix
this. But I don't believe that a "test" created by an agenda-driven
conservative institution accurately measures America's students' historic
knowledge. Shame on the Deseret News for portraying this study as newsworthy.
Here's the harsh reality; the individual is empowered in the United States by
the Constitution as the Founders believed, and rightfully so, that government is
the greatest threat to personal liberties. America is about freedom, liberty,
and pursuit of happinness. Our rights are not, not provided by government, but
by God. Hence, government has no foundation to take away our rights, nor to
provide them, but rather it is We the People who secure them. Fact= health care
is not a right; social security is not a right, illegals are not entitled,
education is not a right..the only rights we have are those enshrined in the
Bill of Rights, chief among these are: freedom of speech, worship, right to bear
arms (shall not be infringed by anyone or any government), private property..and
you can read the rest on-line.Liberalism = Progressivism = big govnerment
= no personal freedom or liberty.
In Alice in Wonderland, Humpty-Dumpty proudly proclaims, "Words mean exactly
what I want them to mean", boldly denying that they have any intrinsic meaning.
That's what Paul Mero does here - "conservative" means someone who agrees with
Paul Mero, and "liberal" means anyone who does not. When you twist definitions,
you can accuse anyone of anything.The truth, though, is that Paul
Mero and the Sutherland Institute promote positions that require a more invasive
government and less freedom for anyone who does not fit his definition of
"conservative". But a larger and therefore more invasive and restrictive
government is actually a LIBERAL position, by any reasonable definition. Paul
can't even define himself, how in the world can anyone take him seriously when
he tries to define others?
"if a kid goes to college, they become more selfish, more cynical and more
secular."Isn't it also interesting that they don't learn anything about
"civic knowledge." They don't understand that freedom isn't free. that's
why they become more liberal.
Good colleges encourage thoughtfulness and an openness to unfamiliar ideas.
Openness fosters tolerance for divergent opinions. I don't know if higher
education makes people more liberal, but I do believe it helps them to analyze
and question their own opinions and other people's ideas and to embrace a more
nuanced view of the world.
Colleges used to teach civics, economics and the history of Western Civilization
- but that's been gutted at most universities. Now they teach women's studies,
minority studies, and Marxism. College professors overwhelmingly are extremely
liberal - and that carries over into the curriculum. That's well documented.
At many universities, especially in the soft sciences and the humanities, there
are NO professors who are conservative. So we send 18 year olds there, without
any prior knowledge of civics (since the public schools barely teach it either),
they get indoctrinated for 4 years with liberal dogma, and then they come out
thinking they know everything and that conservatives are stupid.
What questions did the survey ask? And did it ask people about their
parent's political views? Political compass org has an interesting
If you're young and not a liberal, you have no heart. If you're old and not a
conservative, you have no brain.
darkness = middle ages, totalitarinism, fascism, communism..that was the
dark.Light= Enlightenment, Republic, Democracy, Newton who
attributed Nature's Laws to our Creator.College Professors - Where
those with Secular Progressive/Global Government views remain insulated,
untested, and all too comfortable. Where over 80% of proffessors voted for
Democrats...and that is tolerable? Some of the most
oppressive/intolerable/inhumane people I've ever met were college professors.
Conservatives like Mero have convinced Americans that Liberals are Godless and
Conservativism is the only true and living religion. The problem is both
Conservative and Liberal approaches are both Christian and anti-Christian.To over simplify, Liberals support abortion on demand, Gay Marriage and
sexual freedom, which are considered by many to be anti-Christian. They also
support the fatherless, the widow and turn the other cheek in the search for
peace, which are Christian virtues.To similarly over simplify,
Conservatives believe in the Bible, support individual responsibility and preach
chastity, which are considered Christian. They also support greed (do not tax
me to care for the lazy), enforce their moral code on everyone (Satan's plan)
and lied us into a war of aggression in Iraq (I am a proud veteran), which are
anti-Christian.When we align our religious thinking with one of
these labels, we grossly oversimplify and therefore accept the bad with the
good. Education should make us more discerning. The great Utah State Senator
James E. Faust political motto was "I am very conservative when it comes to
money and morals, but very liberal when it comes to people."
with the assumption that every educated person I have met happens to be liberal.
However, most liberals that I have met do think that they are smarter than most
everone else and look down on those that have a religious belief as shallow
thinkers.However, I do find it interesting that you can only be open
minded and free thinking when you agree with a liberal and that their open
bigotry towards ideas that they disagree with is not often recognized.
See the "seventeen factors" chart on the website provided. The results seem
inconsistent and may reflect sampling bias. For example, the table
implies that someone leaning conservative tends to earn more money and live in
the South. Being liberal reflects being female, college educated and living in
Why is Paul Mero so cynical about college education? He's the proud ownwer of a
4-year degree--what qualifies him to offer commentary on this subject when he's
only been one campus for a short time?
When are conservatives going to figure out that the more they try and demonize
liberals the more liberal the liberals become?
Conservatism is about keeping things the same, keeping people from deviating
from the "norm", keeping people from challenging the status quo. Had Joseph
Smith been conservative, the Church would never have been established. Ironic,
More educated people tend to be more liberal.More educated people
tend to make more money.Wealthier people tend to be more
conservative.Something tells me that several of these correlations
only hold true in a slight majority of cases.
Well, perhaps you should have gone to masters programs at schools where you
actually have to interact with people, and work somewhere else. Branding
management as all "republican" just shows how isolated you really are.
Political leaning has nothing to do with you capacity to earn money. It does
impact what you do with it once you have it though.I also reject
college makes one smart - it just make you more informed. But there in lies the
problem. A good college professor will teach you how to learn and ask
questions. A poor college professor makes you memorize a bunch of stuff. We
are turning out way to many memorizors and way too few thinkers - regardless of
political affiliation. I don't want employees who just do. I want
employees who ask why and seek better ways of dong things. I don't want church
goers who attend because they blindly follow. I want fellow observants who have
challenged what they believe and work it out for themselves - regardless of what
religion you are.
Stop to think about WHO is teaching at the college level! Most are products of
the 60's and 70's, and they are advancing very liberal and secular views,
especially in the social sciences. Their students are fed what they espoused.
What she describes in her teaching is not real critical thinking, but rather
secular ethics. I have seen the sad results, and I worry about "so called"
higher education. Much of it is a paper mill of qualification. Very sad. It
should not be this way. There is an epidemic of secularization in the world, so
we don't have to wonder where it starts.
We mistake Liberal views with Liberal politicians.Liberal
politicians are convinced that money grows on trees and that we taxpayers can
pay for everyone's education, health-care, and climate change.Jesus
was able to cure anyone without a 20 percent co-pay because he believed in
The only shocking statistic in all of this is the dwindling numbers of advancing
people who believe the Bible is the word of God. That is likely something
America should worry about. Other staistics can be attributed to the fact that
people become more calloused as they go through life, realizing a more
open-minded approach is more realistic. As a young teen, I wouldn't
have known nor comprehended the amount of "hard work and perseverence" required
to make the life most people desire. Nor would I have considered same-sex
marriage an ok thing to do...but now that I'm older, and have actually
experienced more and been around more people, the social technicalities don't
matter as much as a person.
Religion - darkness. Education - light.
Yes, but then reality bring them back to the real world.
I have worked with a number of college grads over the last 25 years and
unfortunately there is some truth to college grads being more liberal. I have
even talked with parents who have mentioned that their kids have taken on more
liberal views after attending college. Those who voted for Obama in my view
voted against Bush and didn't pay attention to what Obama said he intended to
do. Then again what he said and what he is doing are not the same either, the
guy told people what he thought they wanted to hear to get elected. Obama said,
I won't raise your taxes, no pork barrel spending, I'll support manned space
flight, just to name a few. The supposed stimulus package was nothing but a pork
barrel spending package, cap and trade will raise our taxes all by itself let
alone the need to pay for the enormous deficit spending. The manned space
program, Ares and Constellation are to be canceled, setting back our manned
space program thirty years a putting the U.S. behind China, India and France and
maybe even Russia in space. That's change alright!
Don't give Buttars any ideas! He'll certainly ax college in addition to grade
This is an interesting study, but it's worth pointing out that it was produced
by a group with a well-known conservative bias; it should come as no surprise
that their conclusions matched their ideology.
The basic position of Socrates was that he did not know anything. Everything
needed to be questioned, nothing could be assumed as a given. He did not teach
the youth of Athens "radical"(or liberal) theories, he taught them to question
everything they thought they knew.
Activism can be great, but I dislike impressionable college students who take
one or two political science classes and then are all of a sudden extremely
opinionated, and "know it all's." They tend to bash capitalism, and support
socialism because they wrote a few papers on Karl Marx. They hang out at
Starbucks with their lap tops.
I attended a liberal college for my undergraduate degree and basically told the
profs what they wanted to hear for 4 years, got my degree, and came out of it
even more conservative than when I went in.Most of the profs there
had never had a job in the real world and were constantly griping about their
pay and funding for education. Very few of them cared about me as a student or
really educating people.I got the first of my 2 master's degrees
from an oft-maligned on-line school. The instructors were people who (gasp!)
had actually worked in the field they were teaching and I learned so much more
than my wasted 4 years in undergrad.In the private sector, I haven't
found many liberals - at least not in management. Most of the liberals I
encounter are obsessed with grievances instead of bucking up and getting the job
done despite the challenges.
College grads more liberal? I'm not so sure about that. I know from my college
Statistics class that you can prove about anything you want in a poll. The
Sutherland Institute is going to get a different outcome than a Liberal group
will. I think I met an equal amount of Liberals and Conservatives in College.
What I did learn is to open my mind. I became more aware of the Cultural
differences and similarities between people and to respect that.
Paul Mero is just mad at college students cause they voted for Obama.
You liberals would like to think that the reason graduates have become more
liberal is become they've become smarter, but that's not the case.They've become more liberal because they've been immersed for four years in
theory instead of real life. In theory liberalism makes all the sense in the
world; it suffers terribly in practice. The further one gets from
the reality of what it takes to get ahead in life, the more liberal they
become.Look no further than actors, musicians, professional
athletes, career politicians, academia, etc., etc.The only major
exception to this is with union members, who are captive to their hyper-liberal
indoctrinating union leadership and fearful of falling out of step.
republicans aren't against education any more than democrats hate free speech.
Education builds charactor, appreciation and concern for more than ones self
with a liberal heart to help and share with others.
some people get educated far beyond their intelegence. learning is good but it
doesnt make you smart or give you wisdom
Now I understand why Republicans are so against education. If people become
smart, they become liberal. We certainly can't have that.
Strait is the gate and narrow is the way to eternal life.
Instead of taking the "micro" view, as Mero does, why not see the "macro" view
as it pertains to the entire country? Where is the greatest concentration of
college students, and where are they hardest to find? If the answers are
"Boston, MA" and the "Deep South, excluding Florida", respectively, then you
have your answer. Higher education does have a liberalizing effect. It's not by
accident that the GOP is now based firmly in Dixie.
will set us free.Therefore we need to look for the truth. If we think we have
it, then the search is over and our minds, values become stagnants.The
glory of God is intelligence, why not use it?There are many, many (myself
among them) liberals, who question everything and believe in social justice and
in the gospel because we are liberals. Because we see Jesus as a leader pursuing
the dignity of all human beings. I'm a Christian and as such I am not afraid of
respecting different life styles, values, and ideas. God is bigger than any
church,human principle or interpretation of his word.Education formal or
informal is liberating and challenging, embrace it and start living.
They're minds are so open that there brains fell out.
indoctrination that the vast majority of colleges and universities give to their
students, many turn out moderate or conservative or perhaps liberal, but not
quite as much as Ward Churchill. I guess students leaving our liberal colleges
are more "open minded" and "freer thinkers" than we think...go figure.
Why is it that so many liberal people who post in these articles are so full of
hate for "conservatives"?I know plenty of brilliant people with
great jobs who are very thoughtful, tolerant, literate, and oh yeah - religious
and conservative. I also know a lot of people who fit the same basic description
but are liberal instead. And we are all friends - imagine that!!
is incompatible with the teachings of Jesus. I find it ironic that I, as an
agnostic, have to be the one to point out to religious folks that Jesus would
never ask for a co-pay or if you had a pre-existing condition.
People who go to college tend to be more intelligent than the average
population. Since they are smarter there is a greater likelihood they will be
liberal. It all makes perfect sense.
College opened my mind.Seeing people suffering through out the world
made me Liberal.
"education has long threatened a sector of the population, noting "Socrates died
for that," after Greek rulers decided he was corrupting the youth of Athens by
teaching them theories that didn't align with prevailing beliefs."Something’s never change... I always find it ironic that
Conservative Christians are forever "bashing" universities hatefully labeling
them as liberal...
College is where you generally lose your cynicism, assuming you open your mind
to all the things you might learn there.Some people, Mero included,
perhaps miss much of what is offered in a university level education. Maybe
that is why it is Mero, and not your average university student, who is so
If you want to find the most reactionary, fundamental, staunch believers in
religion, find illiterate people. If you want to find people who contribute to
the arts, advance medicine, write the great books, then look to educated,
well-read folks. Throughout time Religion has sought to keep people in
the dark and supress questioning anything. The Dark Ages were not caused by
liberal minds. Fundamentalists believe in their myths and stories, educated
folks use the scientific method