2 young FLDS boys unaccounted for

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  • Paul
    May 2, 2008 10:38 p.m.

    This question needs to be answered. Did anyone in the FLDS community press charges of any kind against anyone else in their community? If the answer is "no", return the children to their parents. You don't arrest people based on a hoax phone call. You don't arrest people and then create a crime with which to charge them. There is a legal and logical process which must be followed. Also, the adult women, falsely classified as minors, are being illegally detained in violation of their civil rights. There are no arrests of or charges against the men in the community. There are just unquestioned allegations which come and go with regularity. I can't judge the state, but it seems like they're throwing things against the wall to see what might stick in an effort to save face. Are all of them above fabricating "evidence" or preventing the release of facts that would free the "guests" of the state? Time will tell.

  • Dynah
    May 1, 2008 6:59 a.m.

    Does anyone wonder that since Polygamy is illegal and the police knew about these groups, why has it been allowed for so long? It makes you go Hmmmmmmm. I am totally against the child bride issues, 18 is young enough to marry, but 14 and pregnant is child abuse

  • Mother in Illinois
    April 29, 2008 10:39 p.m.

    "Child welfare workers in Texas say they're not worried."

    dah??? ... Its not their kids! Would they say that if it was their own child?

    What a bunch of dummies must be employed by CPS.

  • The Texan
    April 29, 2008 1:26 p.m.


    The boys are only lost to the legal minds who should know where they are. The CPS knows where they are. You don't lose children, the FLDS do.

  • Anonymous
    April 28, 2008 9:36 p.m.

    Federal and state housing projects are full of under age girls with children and no one knows who their fathers are and no one in government cares. And you don't see the CPS going in there and taking them away, do you? That's because there is no adoption market for Black and Hispanic babies. The CPS just rounded up 462 white, blonde and blue eyed children that will bring lots of money in through their own adoption services. Lots of salaries, court costs, lawyers fees, and pensions get paid for by this system which is largely funded by your taxes. Also, money received for foster care and money from prospective adoptive parents for adoption services when CPS adopts these kids out to someone other than their parents. That's right, there's no money in giving the kids back to their parents. Isn't selling human beings called slavery? But, now we don't have to go to other countries to get them. Texas, the chattel state.

  • Trafamadore
    April 28, 2008 7:50 p.m.

    2 boys missing? I think a real question is going to be were are the some 30 boys between 13 and 17 that appear to be missing. (There were 17 boys and 53 girls between 13 and 17 in the 400+ kids)

  • gal50
    April 28, 2008 3:58 p.m.

    Various newspapers have the count of children at 467, 462 and 463. I understand there have been some births at hospitals resulting in a count increase, but that doesn't explain the current discrepancies in the press.
    Some children are reaching adulthood while in custody which may reduce the count. Perhaps CPS should release a daily official number with an explanation of the changes. A week ago there were about 20 girls and women who were pregnant or who had given birth while underage. Today there are 31 girls out of 53 who are pregnant or who have given birth. That's a lot of statutory rape if the new numbers are correct and it explains why the entire ranch was raided and all of the children were removed. To those above who are confused CPS always removes all children in an abuse situation.

  • yahn goodey
    April 28, 2008 12:54 p.m.

    i am not the member of any religious organization on this earth but i do read and believe the bible.
    how every adult member of this church can be painted with the same brush as child abusers or potential child abusers and their children taken away without a trial to prove the accusations to be true or false is beyond my comprehension.
    cps does not take away the children of adulterers or homosexuals or the children of 1 of the biggest denominations in the usa that we have had to endure hearing in the news for the last 6 years about child abuse------but 1 little church that is not costing america one cent to pay for their non existing sexual diseases or illigitimate child welfare support----and the government goes after these ones?
    the pictures i have seen are of kids that appear very well behaved---the dream of every parent to have as their own.
    to me this action by the state of texas and the cps is a worse crime than polygamy or membership in a non mainline church organization that is harming none of us by its beliefs and practices.

  • tx b mom
    April 28, 2008 12:16 p.m.

    I cannot believe the comment I read at the top. "2 lost for over 400 saved is a small price to pay." you can't be serious. I for one have no use for people who rape young girls and force them to marry. Infants were not in any danger, boys were not in danger.
    Let me give you some insight into TX cps:
    1. they do lie, if it is in what they determine to be the best interest of your child they will lie to you, the judge, your attorney, to get your child.
    2. anyone can call cps and have your child taken away from you, no proof needed,
    3. TX CPS has a horrible record of protecting children it places in foster care, Some foster parents (not all) are very bad people. Good foster parents know who the bad ones are, try hard to get them removed from the system only to have their lives turned upside down in the process. many times losing thier own kids in the process.
    4.ALL states get paid money to take children, some children adopt better than others, sad but true.

  • Old Geezer in Vegas
    April 28, 2008 10:49 a.m.

    After watching the videos on Dateline, it really scares me. When authorities went into the one couples home, the man asked to see their paperwork authorizing the search of their house and taking of their children and was told that they didnt have a copy of the order. If he wanted to see it, it was at their office.

    Sort of reminds me of the classic line from the movies, Badges? We dont need any stinking badges!! Only this time it was, Paperwork? We dont need any stinking paperwork!! In other words they didnt have to justify the search or taking of the children to him, they were just doing it because they were the law.

  • Bobbi inME
    April 28, 2008 8:31 a.m.

    I think that they should have made all the men leave instead of removing all the children from there mothers. The men are the ones that are the danger to the girs not the mothers. They should return the chidren to the mothers the children have to be scared to death. They dont know the world we live in. So its only fair that the men should have to leave not the children from the only thing that they have known. The children and mothers are the one's being punished for what the men did.That way all the children would be acounted for. It's easier to keep track of the men then it would be to try to put 437 children in to foster care.

  • Anonymous
    April 28, 2008 6:28 a.m.

    Willy Steele are you crazy! In fact most of you guys are crazy on here.

  • Steve
    April 28, 2008 5:15 a.m.

    I stumbled across this thread while following a link from a search engine and was kind of surprised at the number of people vehemently supporting the FLDS and condemning the Texas authorities until I realized what I was reading - reader responses to The Deseret News. Well, duh, silly me. It should have been expected. Just like expecting that most of the readers of Al Jazeera would support and defend Al Qaida.

    There are way too many stories by former FLDS members about what goes on there for you people to seriously believe those children weren't being abused in that cult. Either you're knowingly covering for child abusers or you're too lazy to check into it more fully.

    Either way, there's a lesson to be learned from this... if you're going to start a cult compound, don't do it in Texas. (You'd think people would have learned that after Waco!!!)

  • SJ Bobkins
    April 28, 2008 5:01 a.m.

    if the boys are indeed lost, isn't this solving a problem the FLDS will have 10 years from now?

  • Willy Steele
    April 28, 2008 12:33 a.m.

    Who is abusing whom? You say the FLDS are abusing their children? Where is the proof? None produced so far even in court! All speculation and innuendo. You say CPS is protecting the children? Where is the proof? All yanked from their mothers arms and scattered to the Texas winds over false testimony, most in foster homes, Two missing, several have gone to hospitals, families uprooted, many in likely need of life time counseling and all had their constitutional rights abused. Does CPS or foster care providers do a better job of raising children than their own mothers? Smells like a good old Texas moral lynch mob at work! Now I ask you Christian gossipers and hatemonger posting here, where is your proof of abuse! Shame on you! Repent and support the FLDS mothers and their children or resign from Christianity.

  • Red Texan
    April 27, 2008 11:56 p.m.

    The FLDS apologists on this thread make me sick. CPS explained why they couldn't just remove the men and leave the mothers and children at the ranch: no way to secure it. No way these law-breaking mothers, with their history of lying and failing to protect their children in the past could be trusted to make a U-turn overnight and reform their ways. No way the state, CPS or any government bureau wanted to take on a case of this magnitude. No one even knew there were this many kids/people on the ranch--something else the FLDS lied about.

    My heart aches for the trauma the children are suffering, but they have hope for the future. I only wish it weren't too late for the zombied-out, brainwashed women, but it looks like it is.

    Texans tolerate all kinds of different beliefs and led the country in homeschooling, but we draw the line at raping and abandoning children. Call us names if you want, but we're proud of it.

  • of course they will
    April 27, 2008 11:56 p.m.

    "When this is all over and the lawsuits are all done, the FLDS church is going to own the state of Texas."

    Yes, that is very likely; about as likely as finding those men 'dressed like Quakers' that live on the moon.

  • Skeptic
    April 27, 2008 11:30 p.m.

    Edangered species: HOW are you certain the boys are okay? It completely stumps me that you somehow just know this.

    Too bad about the total disregard for human rights and the constitution.

  • Leroy G.
    April 27, 2008 11:22 p.m.

    On April 25 when the children were separated from the babies over 12 months, the Colliseum was locked down and --
    "I'm going to the courthouse," said attorney Emmet Fleming, who is representing a little girl who he said has medical needs. "I doubt that I'll even be able to see (the judge), but I'm going to try."
    As I understand there was supposed to be a special arrangement for this child and if it turns out that this is the child in icu and something happens to her because her special needs were not met.... Well lets wait and see if it is.

  • Matthew
    April 27, 2008 11:16 p.m.

    I child in the care of its parents is not a hostage.

    Catch a clue all of you that think CPS did the right thing. They've shown no proof, they have no specific allegations for most of the families affected. Just because someone chooses to live a different lifestyle than you isn't grounds for hearding them all into a concentration camp at gun point.

    That is exactly what Texas did. The Texas Authorities are a bunch of NAZIS! What they have done merits all possible conotations of that label.

    The European Union ought to invade based on the precident Texas so-and-so in the White House set.

    No wonder the Founding Fathers included the 4th Amendment. Tyranny is rising in America

  • whereabouts
    April 27, 2008 11:07 p.m.

    When the state takes a child into custody, they don't tell the parents where the child is. This lessens, I'm sure, the chances that parents can grab their kids and flee.

    Yet another ploy by FLDS to smear CPS, and it is backfiring.

  • usachild
    April 27, 2008 10:47 p.m.

    CPS saved my life, so before you go CPS bashing get your facts straight.. These Children were held hostage behind a locked gate, brainwashed and did not know what life in the real world is like, all for the sake of religion!

    Its better they get out now and see what the real world is like and when they get older they will know what its like to get a job and fuction with civilization and lead normal lives.

    This is the "Best interest of the child" (Thanks CPS)

  • JoAnn
    April 27, 2008 10:31 p.m.

    How sad that these children,each and every one of them have been taken from their mothers. No matter the religion children should not be taken from their mothers. It is the men in the FLDS church that are committing the crimes. The women are being submissive as is taught in most religions. How sad that the majority of these children are well taken care of and loved. Try taking the children away from the illegal aliens we have living in this country and deporting them back to Mexico and watch what happens. The United States Government would back down immediately. What Texas has done to the children of the FLDS church is just wrong.

  • CPS Credibility
    April 27, 2008 10:10 p.m.

    CPS lost ALL credibility about the "best interest of the child" when they IGNORED their OWN state witness that for the health of the children, all children under age 5 were to be returned ASAP to the mothers under a safety net. Any children returned to the mothers are not left alone to be raped in the future. CPS supervises the family and puts them in a safety net plan for their future. Since they ignored what Perry stated was best, I now cannot believe CPS really has all the best interest of the child at hand. They are not PhD certified like Perry to go over his head and make another decision contrary. Now these children are going to suffer and be traumatized b/c CPS did not take its own advice..so much for credibilty and best interests speel.

  • Girl In ICU Reported
    April 27, 2008 10:05 p.m.

    Guys, I found someone who is "in the know" about this girl who posted under the news article I believe with US News. Apparently, according to her, this baby girl is in ICU b/c she has a rare situation that has been historically documented. This girl was taken from her mother and was still being breastfed. She is not tolerating the separation and is not eating and is now in ICU (which means she is fighting death). This is horrible. I challenge any of you to say this is in the best interest of this baby girl and that she would have been in more danger under CPS superivsion WITH her mother. Go ahead. Once this fact is public (probably not b/c of HIPPA) people will be outraged. I am. As far as the rape allegations that came from Rozita. CPS almost had me on that. I will wait until I hear one of those girls claim rape. Consentual statutory rape--maybe but rape in itself will have to be made known on the stand first. BTW, these children are reported to have lost a lot of healthy weight and acting out since the separation--sounds like CPS abuse to me.

  • earthchild
    April 27, 2008 9:55 p.m.

    They can return all the children now. Because all the men who fathered children with women under 16 or 14 depending on the law time frame headed for the hills as soon as dna was mentioned. Texas has totally blown it. Now there will be noway to prosicute the men that every one seems to want hung.

  • Stupid is as stupid does
    April 27, 2008 9:53 p.m.

    Lady Of LIBERTY

    Live the American laws! Break them and go to jail or get out! This is not about illegals...duh! Polygamist are Americans, and they are not poor. They are liars, thieves and child abusers and molesters... Get it? They steal from the American government to build a empire.

  • All lies
    April 27, 2008 9:19 p.m.

    The FLDS polygamist are sure trying hard to twist these posts around for their own benefit. Too bad know one wants to listen to a bunch of lies and perversions. I'm certain the boys are ok. So FLDS, PLEASE quit all the worthless mouthing off! You guys brought all this on to yourselves with your sinful life styles. You are the ones to blame for what is happening to your children.

  • a hope for the future
    April 27, 2008 9:11 p.m.

    My hope for the future is that all these children, as they become adults, band together and hunt down every government perpetrator that did this to them.

  • Lady Of Liberty
    April 27, 2008 8:59 p.m.

    Give me your tired,your poor,
    your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.The wretched refuse of your teaming shores.
    Send these, the homeless, helpless, tossed to me.
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

    Why not remember who we are....

  • Old geezer in vegas
    April 27, 2008 7:56 p.m.

    OK Lets do a theoretical test here.

    600+ people
    400+ children
    Parents on Drugs or alcohol. 0
    Girls that have had sex before turning 18. Unknown.
    Kids education. Better than the average for Texas
    Kids on Drugs or alcohol. 0
    Kids with STDs. 0
    Kids in street gangs. 0
    Kids behavior. Overly polite.

    Any low income large apartment complex of about the same size in any metropolitan area.
    Parents on Drugs or alcohol. Too Many!!!
    Girls that have had sex before turning 18. Most!!!
    Kids education. Spotty at best.
    Kids on Drugs or alcohol. Many!!
    Kids with STDs. More than one might imagine according to studies.
    Kids in street gangs. Many!!
    Kids behavior. Reprimand them and you might get shot!!

  • Urinary test
    April 27, 2008 7:05 p.m.

    To Zoar, a urinary test is hardly an invasive procedure. I went in for my pap smear test last week... that's invasive. These FLDS are so annying trying to gain sympathy. Tell the truth, then we might care.

  • Emily Postponed
    April 27, 2008 6:56 p.m.

    I feel badly about the mothers and their small children. BUT the is in for more problems with polygomy - the Muslims can have three wives according to their religion. Mosques in Michigan have families with plural wives - what is the Government going to do with them? Are they different?

    Texas has done a poor job in the past with "splinter groups" aka Waco etc.

    Sad sad sad

  • Chicago
    April 27, 2008 6:25 p.m.

    What kind of CPS incompetence results in a little 2 year-old girl ending up in hospital ICU? I would bet that little girl had a mom with her (taking care of her) in the temporary shelter until CPS told those moms with babies over 12mo to leave.

    What kind of incompetence results in CPS having to admit they do not know the wear abouts of an 11 year-old boy and his 16 month-old little brother?

    As for the comment: "... 2 lost for over 400 saved is a small price to pay" ... and those that agree ... tell it to the Lord when you meet on Judgment Day ... the devil probably already has your soul.

  • Chicago
    April 27, 2008 6:24 p.m.

    While polygamy is not my thing, I found it interesting to read, that a Canadian Court has recently ruled laws against polygamy unconstitutional. So apparently Canada, is a bit more tolerant than the USA on this issue.

    I saw one comment above where a woman said she was thankful for being taken out of an abusive home as a child. She probably was lucky. But there are plenty of documented horror stories about what can happen in foster care (e.g. being hung by feet from door frames, crushed to death under pile of dry wall, raped, beaten to death ... and on and on) ... Sure there are lots of good foster homes ... but there are some very bad ones as well... and to CPS these kids are just numbers that they pay someone else to take care of.

  • Chicago
    April 27, 2008 6:21 p.m.

    I suppose my only point is that if the sheriff and CPS and the court can bent and distort facts and legal procedure (as if end justifies the means), then how can anyone consider the authorities a reliable source of the truth any more than the FLDS people? There is probably spin on both sides, but the authorities especially should expected to play by the rules, rather than making things up as they go along.

    It is hard to say who is really truthful on both sides of this issue. But in any case, it is for me an impossible stretch of the imagination to think that babies and toddlers are better off in the hands of strangers that just get paid to house "wards of the state" than they would be in the care of their own mothers. Again, there has been no evidence of babies/toddlers (or any other kids) being malnourished, neglected, or whipped/beaten. If there had been, we certainly would have heard about it. By all accounts, whatever their faults, FLDS mothers are very loving and caring about their kids.

  • HelloPeople
    April 27, 2008 6:02 p.m.

    Why is it so hard to figure out what needs to be done!
    Take in to custody all of the rapers and mollesters, an leave the victims(children) alone!!! Why not remove 467 Men from the ranch?

    last time i checked if someone in America gets sexually abused the person who abused them gets taken into custody. NOT THE PERSON RAPED!!!

    ONLY IN TEXAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    April 27, 2008 5:46 p.m.

    We should investigate every teenage pregnancy and take all these girls into state custody... that would only be fair, don't you think.

  • Sorry but...
    April 27, 2008 5:43 p.m.

    There can not be enough really good foster parents for all of these children. I don't agree with FLDS, and I do think someone needed to intervene for the sake of the young girls being married. But the babies and young children did not need to be taken from their mothers. I have seen these people and they love and care for their little ones.

    They are misguided by false leaders and need education. But the babies need their moms.

  • Leslie
    April 27, 2008 5:41 p.m.

    Perhaps these mothers who are missing children should be as concerned when their sons become the discards of their society via The Lost Boys, or when their daughters are forced or talked into becoming illegal wives of the sexual perverts/predators that they call "men" of the FLDS. Step up to the plate, ladies, and truly protect your children from the dangers within.

  • john b
    April 27, 2008 5:38 p.m.

    tarheal i cant beleive you ment what you said a child is always bettwr off with his mother and father does that meen that if they are beating them san telling them they are no good it is allright

    cps has given each child a number and a name but if the child said his name was paul jones and the mother is loking for ralph brown cps will not find him in there records

  • hey deb
    April 27, 2008 5:35 p.m.

    Reread the story! Nobody is actually missing. All are accounted. The "unaccounted" in the story only refers to the FLDS practice of reporting multiple names, ages, and parentage to a child. Now with a laundry list of names and dates for a single child, they expect to immediately be told where that child is at any point in time. The name of the child would be what? It would depend on which story was told for which date. It could be: Joseph, David, Brigham, Nephi, or Alma. Which direction is the wind blowing?

    Had all mothers been truthful, the children would not have been removed. They were deceptive and lied, so that there was no longer ANY reason to trust them and extreme actions were taken. Had family groups remained consistent, none of this would have happened.

  • reply to deb
    April 27, 2008 5:34 p.m.

    their "mothers who love them" so much they stand by and let their teenage daughters be brainwashed into marrying old men, their sons forcibly removed from the compound, and who pretend their own children aren't theirs to inhibit the investigation?

    I'd have more respect for these people if they stopped misleading and attempting to divert the course of justice. Their answers to Larry King were obviously untrue, and worked out in advance.

    Anyone who thinks the FLDS are whiter than white, needs to take a reality check, and fast.You're being manipulated by them, and it really isn't that hard to spot.

  • CEthier
    April 27, 2008 5:31 p.m.

    They have no lawyers, no legal representation ... they have legal aid ... this is close to nothing , thats why their children were taken away

  • CEthier
    April 27, 2008 5:29 p.m.

    This is one of the biggest scam that child protection system had pulled so far in North America. I am frankly surprised why the CPS does not scoop up the children in the Christian community, because the bible does not teach them the best according to CPS criteria of child emotional abuse. With the same logic CPS claims that FLDS children will be raised in 10-15 years from now as potential child molesters, truth is that in any Christian family 10-15 year from now could be raise a poetical spanker. Spanking named illegal by CPS, while the bible teaches: Spare the rod, spoil the child. Tell me why the poetical spankers are not in the group homes? Remember the spanking case in Ontario lasted 20 months.

  • CEtheir from ON, Canada
    April 27, 2008 5:28 p.m.

    In Texas CPS has apprehended without a warrant over 400 children, well do the math here this is equal to many millions of $$$$$ in Federal funding for the entire mafia group in the Child Protection System. Each child will bring to this corrupt system $300-$700/day. Make no mistake for the real motives of this raid! To the FLDS mother a fair advice: record all conversations with CPS: tape recorders, cell phones! CPS will fight for their dollars; you are just a number in their game.

  • juaney
    April 27, 2008 5:24 p.m.

    I'm from San Angelo Tx.I can tell you that alot of people has been effected and we are not family but never the less we have one.CPS,Courts,DPS,Medical services,City of San Angelo{officers},Churches,Professionals etc. has done/worked/ with this situation with the best of their knowledgh to keep the women and children very,very saved/protected until the end,where the courts heard alot of testimonies/days and then some/DNA.The City of SA provided an organ, because they like to sing and worship,wool/needles/keybord instruments,some churches donated their time to make homemade quilts,and other things they are acustom to using,so they be as comfortable as possible waiting...By the way, I know of several parents here in san Angelo that the courts has taken there kids away because they had evidence of sexual/physical molesting/sexual abuse.Any Church,any one,that is mistreating Children are in real trouble!Kids depend on Adults to take care of them.Adults need to speak up if they see an injustice being done.Not just the FLDSC.I do pray/2 boys .I hope they escape.{smart???}and are save somewhere,like with their, a smart Father.-Who knows?.

  • Brooke
    April 27, 2008 5:15 p.m.

    CPS in Texas can't handle all these children. The JUDGE needs to be recalled or put in jail. This is pure and simple religious bigotry and hatred against the FLDS. Their evidence is tainted. There is no SARAH. But wait maybe given enough time to teach the children. I remember the MCMARTIN SCHOOL Case. It turned out CPS made the children lie under the promise they would get their parents back!!!

  • Texas Immigration Plan
    April 27, 2008 5:14 p.m.

    Texas Immigration Plan: Make it less Free here, and more desirable in Mexico.

    and a very good plan Texas, rest of you states need to take example from this

  • to all Texas Parents
    April 27, 2008 5:13 p.m.

    "Texas law has a very low burden for removal of children from a parent's home" said Jessica Dixon, director of the child advocacy center at Southern Methodist University Law School in Dallas." She went on to say "I've never heard of anything like this." Source, PR-inside.com

    The bottom line is you better protect your own children by demanding that your Legislature re-write the laws that govern CPS. It sure looks like your lawmakers are a bunch of far left liberals who belive in the government having unrestricted power to violate the privacy of your home and make up the rules as they go.

  • Cultural Awareness
    April 27, 2008 5:10 p.m.

    Wow! CPS has got it ALL wrong when it comes to the children's beliefs.. Must have got it the same place as "don't follow my advice CPS" Psych. Perry--from the media. Google fldsview and blogspot . It makes me very very upset that they are suprised the children are starting to act out and they have lied about some of their beliefs to make FLDS look worse than it already appears to be--but to the detriment of the children. Sick.

  • Cookie there/their
    April 27, 2008 5:10 p.m.

    The boys will be identified and located.
    The older boy probably told CPS different names
    at different times for himself and his little
    'brother' or perhaps 'cousin.' Were children
    already in different places such as the school,
    garden, work areas, other than with their own
    mothers when CPS stepped in? That could account
    for "normal" mixups.
    In the beginning of this
    terrible scourge, the "Eldorado Success" published legal notifications of all known children; these children bore only three to four last names. Two surnames were very prominent in the FLDS church. Since the leader is in jail, wouldn't that raise fear in the adults to claim certain names?
    HIPPA laws require complete confidentiality.
    In some cases I believe HIPPA goes too far,
    even for doctors, nurses, and other professionals but it was designed to protect patients and individuals needing medical care.
    Please check usage of 'their' signifying possession,
    such as "their children" AND 'there' pointing out
    direction, such as "there is...there are...over
    there...there is trouble when you live in the USA,
    individuals are guaranteed the right to a free education, and their spelling can be perfect using
    a computer!
    I just e-mailed Gov. Perry questioning foster care
    sexual abuse.

  • Read?
    April 27, 2008 5:10 p.m.

    No, deb. None of us knows how to read.

    Better to be cold and heartless, than agree with you and return those kids to the complicit FLDS mothers who refuse to protect girls against child rapists and allow young boys to be groomed as predators, or worse abandoned as excess garbage along side the road.

    Yeah....They need their mothers who love them!

  • To those looking for the facts:
    April 27, 2008 5:03 p.m.

    Wait for the court hearings. Texas can't show all of the facts in the media, they will present them in the courtroom. Until then, the media, the FLDS, and everyone else's comments are just SPECULATION.

  • deb
    April 27, 2008 4:51 p.m.

    Does anyone here READ before posting against the FLDS? THe LAWYERS are the ones who were told they did not know where the 2 boys were! The AD LITEM wasn't given information on the child in the hospital! CPS is legally obligated to get information to the LAWYERS AND AD LITEMS for the children. And once the children were in the CPS legal custody, it doesn't matter what the parents said their names were, the CPS has them and they are responsible for their own records and headcount. And for anyone who thinks it's ok that 2 children are missing, I hope yours go missing so you can learn to FEEL because you are COLD and HEARTLESS human beings.My child once went into a neighbors home with a friend to watch a tv show and I could'nt find him, I still to this day remember the HORROR I felt until we found him, as has any other MOTHER. EVERY CHILD is of extreme value and you can't put a price on life. Most foster care moms have that problem- children in their care is a little more money-cold and heartless.They NEED their MOTHERS who love them!!!

  • Watching
    April 27, 2008 4:43 p.m.

    Maybe those two missing brothers (one a 16 month old baby) that to some think "two lost to save 400 isn't bad" would be more important to you if they belonged to some other religion that is more accepted in Texas? It's like you are saying these are just FLDS kids, so what is a few more or less.

    Shame on Texas.

  • Leroy G.
    April 27, 2008 4:39 p.m.

    Yes FLDS has limited medical facilities at the Ranch.
    If one of the children is now in intensive care, it could be coincidence. But it is also true that more than 2 weeks ago every child was given a medical examination. Kids get sick. Emotional Trauma can also bring on illness. We do not know anything yet. We do not know that any child has been hospitalized. We do not even know if the phone call was from a person at the shelter. For all we know it could be from someone who just wants to stir the pot.

  • Re: Zoar
    April 27, 2008 4:39 p.m.

    I am a nurse... you don't feel a stomach for urinary tract infections. You do a urine dip stick..positive leukocytes? postive blood? then there is an infection. They wanted to feel a fundus=pregancy.. That is what they were trying to do...

  • Dr. Sears
    April 27, 2008 4:37 p.m.

    I hope Barbara Walthers reads Dr. Sears. I just read about that toddlers start having irrevocable damage (and babies) if in the constant care (or switching care) of others besides their own mothers.. It went on to talk about the LASTING effects of sudden weaning in this age of a child--no wonder CPS told the foster centers they are "starting to act out after being separated from their mothers".. (report from Ark Assessment memo from CPS). This is in the best interest of the child? Surely CPS monitoring would have been MUCH better or a safety plan away from the men (who agreed to it!). I am getting more heartbroken. I think CPS will wait until the mother's milk is dry and the time span in which a toddler starts detaching from mom (and starts having major problems=psycho drugs anyone???) before allowing visitation. Then they will take her rights away b/c there is no more bond.. Sick sick sick...just as sick as the physical perverts..this is emotional and psychological rape..

  • Chicago
    April 27, 2008 4:32 p.m.

    Maybe FDLS people have been fearful of trusting to give CPS accurate information, but what I see is a CPS that has bent and distorted facts to suit their purposes as well.

    As for the report that some girl said no age was "too young" for "spiritual mariage"; maybe the report is true, maybe not. But even if it is true, that statment alone is no proof that sexual comsumation of marriage actually occured, even if spiritual mariage did. In some Muslim countries, girls have been maried at birth, but their is not sexual comsumation of that mariage until the child has become adult.

    In another article, I read that an Attorny Goldstein had filed papers indicating that the Sheriff knew and had verified, that the man who was alleged to be abusing his 16yo wife (what now seems to be a hoax call) was not at the YFZ ranch and had not even been to Texas in past 20years. Yet However, the Sheriff had previously stated that finding the girl and the man was "essential" to his justification for obtaining the orignal warrant to enter the ranch. Apparently the Sheriff has not been available for comment.

  • Fools Paradise
    April 27, 2008 4:31 p.m.

    Look what disobedience has wrought. Un-manageable chaos with children and families. Folks, follow the true and living prophet...find him if you must. There is otherwise a heavy price to pay sooner or later. The "Texas roundup" would have been avoided.

  • Chicago
    April 27, 2008 4:31 p.m.

    From another article, interesting that some mothers who CPS had previously accepted as being over 18, perhaps decided to say they were under 18 after they found out that being considered a minor would allow them to stay with there baby or child. Maybe they are under 18, and maybe they are not? To my mind, an over 18 mother that is desperate to stay with her child, might very conceivable lie, and claim to be under 18, if that meant not being separated. CPS probably loves to have anyone with a child claim to be a minor, since they see that a justification for their actions. But if these moms really are over 18, then effectively CPS has coerced them to say otherwise just to stay with their babies.

    There was still another article that mentioned a 23yo, that CPS had forced to leave the ranch because CPS, just by looking at her, arbitrary decided she was under 18, despite her telling them otherwise. The finally let her go back to the ranch.

  • Chicago
    April 27, 2008 4:31 p.m.

    As for the 20 teen girls the CPS reports as having had children ... I read one article that indicated one of the "girls" CPS had counted was now 31 having had a baby at 14 in 1993. In 1993, she probably was not even in Texas, but if she had been, Texas law back then allowed marriage at 14 with parental consent; the age with parental consent was raised from 14 to 16 in 2005 ... so she would have been legal even if she had been in Texas. Anybody heard of "expost facto"? Interesting that this minimum age for marriage was not raised until the FLDS had bought the ranch property. At this point, it seems difficult to tell how many of that "20 teen girl" number might fall into the type of self serving staticical manipulation that occurred with the 31yo.

  • Chicago
    April 27, 2008 4:29 p.m.

    Heard it on the radio just the other night here in Chicago, church leaders discussing the problem of young inner city girls becoming pregnant, the burden it places on parents taking care of their kids kids, so apprently those kids and their kids are not taken away. They went on to mentioned that some ADC moms have all their kids by differnt fathers, but their babies/children are rarely removed. Not all are blacks, but a lot are. These were black ministers/leaders talking about problems in their neighborhoods. Try to take all their kids away as a group, and I bet you would have a riot. To my mind, by comparison, the FLDS people look pretty darn good ...a CPS medical expert testified that the FLDS children "were a healthy lot" and I haven't read anything that would indicate any had been marked with a belt or lamp cord or coat hanger or any other beating instrument that we often hear about in what I would term "real abuse cases".

  • Truthful FLDS
    April 27, 2008 4:26 p.m.

    Larry King: Have you ever seen a younger girl being married off to an older man?
    Three FLDS women respond exactly the same way: Not that I have seen.

    Larry King: So are all these stories false, or is it that you havent seen?
    Long Pause
    Very tentatively, two of the FLDS women respond the same way.
    I believe they are false.

    No one could have watched that interview and believed they werent lying. You are completely naive if you think the FLDS dont practice underage spiritual marriages and those FLDS mothers have never seen or even heard of such a thing.

    Its not just lying...Its lying for the Lord.

  • Leroy G.
    April 27, 2008 4:23 p.m.

    2 lost kids?? They can't lose kids because they change the names. They gave them each and every one a number. We know that because CPS told us that. So they know exactly which facility each and every child was supposed to go -- by the numbers. Should have been easy to find out if they arrived. Besides didn't they have one social worker assigned to each child?
    It is reported that some of the childrens eyes lit up when they saw the playground. Guess they have been to a playground before!! Maybe they just were not interested in Crayons!

  • fifty
    April 27, 2008 4:22 p.m.

    The FLDS has always had access to fine legal assistance and is well aware when it is breaking the law. It chose to involve its underage girls in sexual relationships with adult males. In my state, this is statutory rape. CPS removes all children from homes in which abuse occurs. If the father abuses a child and the mother lets it occur, both are criminally charged. FLDS also kicked out underage boys from their homes and handed over some children to new parents. This, too is illegal. Because there was so much abuse and because of a lack of cooperation, it was unclear to DPS whether there were any homes in which children were not abused. Thus, all of the children were removed. The FLDS has to understand that illegal actions have consequences and the FLDS is paying the typical consequences for abuse. I'm sure every parent that loses a child to CPS is upset, although not every parent choses to write his governor.

    As for the diseases, the incubation period for the chicken pox indicates that the children caught it on the ranch. The mom prior to separation should have reported the dehydration of the 2 year-old.

  • TO Psychnurse
    April 27, 2008 4:11 p.m.

    They are already from a "group home" environment you find so horrendous. There were 19 total homes and how many hundreds of people? The difference is that in a state group home, they will not be forced to marry and become pregnant by the whim of Church Authority when momma announces a girl has started her cycle and possibly to a close relative. Boys will not be kicked out for being competition for the females.

    The reason some foster children tend to become legally troubled is because of the environment they were pulled. Clearly you should know that! When they were mostly raised by a mother that used crack and a father that was non-existent it is ridiculous to blame CPS when they too have troubles. The difference is that for the most part, they are now fed, safe, educated, and have a chance despite their upbringing. Do you honestly believe that a man with 50 children, some of which are not biologically his but reassigned and moved across state lines, will know ALL of the children's names? In the group home, percentages are actually better then what they experienced.

  • To Zoar
    April 27, 2008 4:09 p.m.

    No child has ever been interviewed and the only evidence that CPS is supposedly harming those children is coming from the Mothers themselves, distorting the truth to make the CPS look bad.

    And if any of its true the very fact that these kids has been isolated from normal procedures would be foreign procedures to them anyhow. They probably have never had physical exams that is needed for testing done to them in the manner described.

    CPS is PROTECTING these children not harming them!!

  • Hey Red
    April 27, 2008 3:52 p.m.

    You have logic issues. The mothers, with no way of contacting one another, also all lied about names, ages, and parentage. Since they did this is is logical to conclude they would claim "boo hoo, they said that I would never see my baby again." Well, if they continue to allow their daughters up as priesthood harlots to be traded off at the whim of Warren Jeffs, I say good.

  • PsychNurse
    April 27, 2008 3:39 p.m.

    Does anyone realize that these "Group Homes" they have put most of these kids in are just modern day orphanages? One of them has 20 children in it with 2 "houseparents" and one assistant.

    The teenage boys have been sent to a group shelter for "troubled teens" and the younger ones 8 years old and up have been put with them. Most of these kids under 12 will suffer serious consequences from being snatched from their parents and extended family. A study cited by Michael Reagan on Townhall showed that 73% of children put in foster care ended up commiting some level of crime or living on the streets. I believe that study documented children over 3.

    The social workers at CPS have had training in childhood development and are well aware that all of these children between age 18 months and 10 will be vulnerable to developing "attachment disorder" and other very serious phsychological problems.

    This tragedy is not what is in "the best interest of the children." It is a nasty political issue directed at the FLDS religion.

  • So Sad
    April 27, 2008 3:35 p.m.

    Hatred, ignorance and disgust have caused so many of us to lose all compassion. Children have been pulled away from parents. These are not bruised and abused children, these are well-cared for children. They love their mothers and their mothers love them. I don't care what religion or culture anyone comes from that is a universal truth.

    It's time for Americans to protest this injustice. Lock up them men and stop punishing the children!

  • Premature Judgement
    April 27, 2008 3:28 p.m.






  • Gena
    April 27, 2008 3:15 p.m.

    CPS has continually stated the women and children tried to confuse them about names and family relationships. I contend the CPS workers are just easily confused. They have accused the FLDS of embarking on a disinformation campaign, but what did CPS release to the media early on to get the public on their side?

    CPS myth #1: Sex bed in the temple
    The truth: Bed is used for people who need to rest or who become ill

    CPS myth #2: Cyanide poisoning document found (oh, horrors!)
    The truth: A cyanide poisoning treatment page torn out of a first aide manual - reasonable in any medical clinic

    CPS myth #3: 16-year-old caller complaining of 49-year-old husband who beats and rapes her and who had a baby and is pregnant
    The truth: Caller is a 33-year-old black woman who gets her jollies by making fake distress calls to police and shelters

    And it goes on and on - yet people like Nancy Grace keep trumpeting "13-year old girls getting raped by 50-year-old men"! Really? Where are they?

    How about some TRUTH from CPS for a change??

  • The truth stick
    April 27, 2008 3:13 p.m.

    Without a single charge being filed, the state of Texas has rounded up a "weird" religious sect, literally placed them in concentration camps, and then forcefully removed all of the children and placed them in government sanctioned homes to be re-educated.

    Without a charge being filed...

    Without regard for whether a child or his or her mother or father was involved in any illegal activity.

    Simply because of their "weird" beliefs and their association with the sect.

    "First they came for the Jews, but I wasn't a Jew so I didn't speak out..."

    The precedent that is being set here is quite frightening.

  • Cookie
    April 27, 2008 3:07 p.m.

    War in Jeffs: Brilliant observation! You sliced into
    the meat right next to the bone!
    People, it has been reported by more than one source that limited medical care exists on an FLDS compound. Homeopathic remedies are often used in place of mainstream medical care.
    Isn't it possible that the child in the hospital
    NEEDED modern medical attention that was NOT being
    provided? Isn't it possible that the child NEEDED
    an accurate medical diagnosis so that the real condition could be treated?
    Health care providers are mandated by HIPPA laws.
    All health care workers including doctors, nurses,
    CNAs, office workers, ward clerks, EMTs, and
    even the housekeeping staff can risk their jobs
    if they breach confidentiality by telling anyone
    about a patient's condition or what room they are
    in. There's more but this is enough for now.
    Three children are dead in my area because CPS
    wasn't notified. Their voice is gone!
    I have agonized for days over this dilemma.
    Darrell Azar stated on Dr. Phil's show Wed.
    that it could not be determined how, but every
    measure would be taken to reunify children and
    their mothers in appropriate circumstances:
    "What has been done to FLDS we should not do."

  • Jessie
    April 27, 2008 3:03 p.m.

    I for one am glad that something is being done to help these children. I am not saying that CPS has made all of the correct decisions in this process but I know someone personally that is a product of this lifestyle and she has endured many abuses (physical, mental, emotional, sexual etc.) in her life. I don't think she will ever get over it in this lifetime. Unless you are close to or have been in this situation it is hard to know what is really going on behind those gates. I pray that the children are going to be okay whether with their parents or in foster care. NO MORE ABUSE!!!!!

  • Re: Red
    April 27, 2008 2:56 p.m.

    Red: "...given CPS' dubious commitment to honesty..."

    You're absolutely right. The FLDS have been far more truthful than CPS.


  • Red
    April 27, 2008 2:47 p.m.

    "DFPS spokesman Chris Van Deusen and others have repeatedly and strongly denied allegations made by several FLDS mothers that CPS workers threatened to never allow them to see their children again if they didn't cooperate or if the women returned to their homes at the YFZ Ranch."

    Trouble is, at least twice groups of FLDS moms claim this has happened. The two groups didn't have any way to communicate with each other.

    If DFPS isn't saying this, what are they saying, and why is it so readily misunderstood by the FLDS women?

    It is well known that the Achilles' heel of polygamy prosecutions is getting the women to cooperate. I strongly suspect that CPS is leading up to a requirement -- to be "strongly denied" later, of course -- that the women will have to cooperate with prosecution of the men as a condition of getting their children back. And the irony is that, given CPS' dubious commitment to honesty, even if they cooperate the women may still permanently lose their kids.

  • Kate
    April 27, 2008 2:34 p.m.

    I totally agree with the idea of taking the men away until they figure it out and not the little children. I agree that the FLDS compound is not good for young girls who are pressured or forced into getting married so young, but why take the babies away from their mothers? Having a baby myself, I cannot imagine that pain and constant worry. They've been taken into a much worse situation where they cannot possibly be well taken care of. Who makes a decision like that? At least bring the little ones back and save everyone the cost- financial for the state and heartache and fear for the families.

  • Hipaa laws
    April 27, 2008 2:33 p.m.

    You cannot call a hospital up and ask about a patients condition because of recent Hipaa laws. The mother lost custody, so of COURSE she will not be given any information since parental kidnapping is a possibility especially considering that already seems to be the case. Ex'd men are coming forward and requesting DNA testing since the mother of their children were reassigned and given to another man by Warren Jeffs, then moved across state lines. Why would anyone trust them to not do the same again?

  • To: zoar
    April 27, 2008 2:33 p.m.

    Eyewitness account from who? A FLDS mother? And your point is?

    Sorry, but they have cried wolf one too many times. If they cant tell the truth when asked to identify themselves and the children; then there is no reason to believe anything else that spews from their lips into the media is anything other than a lie.

  • Jim
    April 27, 2008 2:25 p.m.

    Here it is: Two days of hearing before the Judge two CPS witnesses No Facts, no Evidence, no Proof of anything and the KIDS are gone!! All the rest is what the Media has told you or info from Flora Jessop and hear say. This world is full people full of hate and will believe any thing they hear. Please wait for the real FACTS then let the heads roll.

  • zoar
    April 27, 2008 2:16 p.m.

    This is an eyewitness account. I cant post urls so I will post the information.

    My three oldest girls, ages 16, 15, and 12, had to get urine samples for a pregnancy test. Also, the nurse had these girls lie down on a table, one by one, so that she could feel their stomach, supposedly for urinary infections. The oldest of the girls burst into tears and would not let the nurse touch her stomach. The nurse then told the fifteen-year-old to get on the table. At first the girl wouldn't, but I told her to just do it. I knew it would only prove them wrong in thinking our girls are immoral. They (CPS workers, and nurse) never asked my consent to do any of this."

    Friday, April 11, 2008 3:15:00 P

    Lets go to every home and give pregnancy tests to girls 11 through 16. If the tests are positive, then we can take those children into protective custody. That seems to be the plan with these FLDS children. What freedom loving person cannot see rights being violated by CPS?

  • Tsew Naxet
    April 27, 2008 1:53 p.m.

    Go Texas.

  • Facts
    April 27, 2008 1:49 p.m.

    How can they show facts when these FLDS members keep changing their stories??, as stated earlier when CPS was trying to figure out who was who the members kept changing their names. One day they had one name and the next day they had a different name.

    Unfortunately these kids will have to be labeled with a number it seems to keep track of who is who and thats sad.

    I am not surprised the numbers keep changing. Its almost like having an alien invasion and thats very sad. These children should not be raised this way. They should know who they are and who their parents are!

    I am shocked that this kind of things happen in 2008 in the USA where kids are locked up behind a gate and imprisoned just for the sake of religion!!

  • Let's see the facts
    April 27, 2008 1:23 p.m.

    I've heard that there were 2 girls under age 18 that were pregnant, but we don't know who the husbands are, could they possibly be boys under 18. I have yet to see any factual documentation just reporters that love sensationalism and numerous readers that buy into their words.

    Show some actual stats.

    How many girls are underage with children.
    What is the legal marrying age.
    How old is their husbands.
    What relation is the girl to the husband is it 1st, 2nd or 3rd cousins, or is it
    a neighbor.
    Statements from the pregnant girls themselves on how they were married.

    May a journalist write a factual statement with proof.

  • Sadly
    April 27, 2008 1:17 p.m.

    The children have paid the price for their parents stupidity.

  • CA
    April 27, 2008 12:53 p.m.

    Bill- there is evidence- 20 pregnant teenage girls, the intital and subsequent lies to authorities, the girls who said "no age is too young to be married", etc. Plenty. Of. Evidence.

    Just wait until the charges start up. After the DNA is completed.

  • Canada
    April 27, 2008 12:51 p.m.

    These Mothers were on CNN acting very strange talking about living in Zion and every lady dressed the same, with the same hair style.. Never did I see any MEN speaking out, thought they were suppose to be be Men with power, well where are they????? All of a sudden children don't count?? And where is all the boys???, even on their own website that they created asking for money all the photos are mostly all girls, all the CNN footage that I have seen is mostly girls, do they not like the boys and ship them off or give them away or something?? Maybe they only keep the girls to continue on with the outrageous sexual abuse!!!!

    These women can't even answer a question or if they do it looks like they look at each other for the answer, they are brainwashed!!! Its not shame on CPS but SHAME SHAME ON FLDS!!!!

  • wrz
    April 27, 2008 12:46 p.m.

    >>If Jesus returned today, someone would lock him up for not having proper identification.

  • Re: Tarheel
    April 27, 2008 12:46 p.m.

    Tarheel says: "It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to speak out and leave no doubt."

    Does this rule apply to you, too?

  • Anonymous
    April 27, 2008 12:46 p.m.

    "And as long as we are discussing 'lost' children, where are all the teen BOYS?"

    They're probably in a "lost boys" shelter in St. George. Come on people! Enough pointing the finger at the State of Texas. What have you done to clean up the mess festering in Hildale?

  • Tarheel
    April 27, 2008 12:36 p.m.

    Many of you who have chosen to comment during the past few weeks on the Desert Morning News articles related to the raid on the YFZ Ranch should carefully consider the following: It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to speak out and leave no doubt. That bit of wisdom is especially relevant to those of you who attempt to defend the Child Protective Services for destroying, or seriously damaging, the lives of some 416 (?) children while pretending to protect them. Your arguments are unsound, and are obviously based on emotion rather than reason. Young children are always better protected in the care of their mothers, even FLDS mothers, who have a natural bond with them than they are as wards of governmental bureaucrats for whom they are only numbers or foster parents who keep them for a fee. From what most of you say, it is apparent that your concern is not about the welfare of the children but rather your hatred of a religious practice with which you disagree.

  • Bill
    April 27, 2008 12:18 p.m.

    I stand behind anyone that is trying to help a child or children that are in fact being abused in any way. BUT--- we have got to be sure there is truly abuse of some kind happening before we send in government "Storm Troopers" to disrupt the freedom of ANYONES religion. Read our Church History & see what it's like for our government to make laws to persecute us, Eg. Missouri just rescinded a law in 1976 that made it legal to kill any that was a MORMON!!! So we need to be careful what we believe if we don't know the facts.

  • Fundamantal rights
    April 27, 2008 12:11 p.m.

    There is a lot more at stake here than the issues of pologamy, or even child abuse. The very essence of freedom is hanging in the balance. Individual, fundamental rights are at stake. I'm not talking about individual crime and abuse. Those need to be addressed on an individual basis. But individual rights have been severely violated. It is not against the law to influence or "indoctrinate" our children. A parent can teach their children that it's alright to use illegal drugs. It isn't a crime unless they give them to their children. You can't punish parents for teaching their children certain things even if you think they're morally wrong. Only actions can be addressed. And then only on an individual basis. You can't assume everyone is guilty and proceed as if they are, just because a few might be. This is a frightening event to parents everywhere. Our basic constitutional rights are hangning in the balance! A few years ago a CPS worker in Utah told my dad that it's worth the sacrifice of a few innocent families just as long as the guilty ones are found and punished. A common mindset with the CPS.

  • sick and tired
    April 27, 2008 12:10 p.m.

    I am so sick and tired of the FLDS lies. If these people had bothered to tell the truth in the beginning, there would be no issue. But since they ALL chose to lie, there are problems. If you can't name all of your children with the same age, name, and birthdays from day 1 to day two, why on earth would you expect social services to know which child, if any, you were speaking of. If you claim a child is blonde and they account for all blonde children, don't be surprised that they can't find said child when the actuality is that the child has dark blonde hair.

    This is just another ploy to attempt to gain public sympathy. SOrry they don't get mine when they place their own oxen into the mire on purpose.

  • FLDS to blame
    April 27, 2008 12:05 p.m.

    Well, FLDS have changed their names and DOB's a number of times. They wont identify their children and the children cant idenitify their parents.

    What a screwed up lot.

    They probably have little Johnny and Jimmy, except they gave their names and Brigham and Jack and Aaron and Chris.

    Children not able to identify themselves. Now that is real abuse

  • transplant
    April 27, 2008 12:04 p.m.

    when did the number of children go fro 462 to 467? Seemingly two children are missing but nothing being said about another three extra? Or are there 5 extra? So how are they going to have parents visit 'their' children when they won't give proof that they are indeed their's? Accuratly identifiing these children is a huge part of why we have this situation in the first place. And why only the Mothers going to be able to visit? Please please Deseret News keep us informed. Don't let this story fall by the wayside. I was a foster child removed from her Catholic home at the age of two. My 9 brothers and sisters were not. I had a blissful, actually normal loving, nurturing, few years before I was returned to a living hell. Because I was rescued I have a different perspective on life than that of my siblings who continue to live in denial of what happened to them in that house. In the long run these chidren will thank the State of Texas for saving their sanity.

  • Mrs. Johnson
    April 27, 2008 11:48 a.m.

    And hello, there was NO evidence of abuse - there was "evidence" that abuse "might" occur in the "future".

    Google Swinton - the accuser who supposedly was responsible for the raid on FLDS - she's a pathetic person, with no credibility.

    Google CPS and see what they are doing around the world to families - destroying them, with NO EVIDENCE.

    Please write to your politicians, newspapers, friends, relatives, and everyone and anyone and tell them this insane act of brutality and injustice cannot be tolerated. WE MUST do something - we are on the brink!!!

    And please help these poor people who have been so viciously abused. Go to their website and help them by donating - Captive FLDS Children - anything you can afford will help.

    Be good, Americans. Be good Americans. Help those in Need. Protect YOUR rights and the rights of others. Don't let witch hunts continue.

    Wake up, America!

  • glenn
    April 27, 2008 11:41 a.m.

    out of 467 kids, say half are girls =233. sounds like this is about average with any community any where.

  • Granny T.
    April 27, 2008 11:39 a.m.

    Read between the lines. This is to save the children? Maybe not. Horrific things are done 'in sheep's clothing' all of the time. And this may not be about the good Baptists saving the poor souls of the infidels. This may be about greed pure and simple.
    From The Rocky Mountain News, USA July 16, 2005 The community may have the last laugh, said pilot J.D. Doyle. West Texas is oil country. Other people own most of the mineral rights, the warranty deed shows. If the majority of mineral rights owners want to drill on the land, the property owner cant say no, said John Griffin, an attorney for the Texas Railroad Commission, which manages oil and gas operations in the state.
    From the air, theres a line of oil wells leading right up to the temple, said J.D. Doyle.
    In the first week in June, a drilling exploration rig went up on a neighboring ranch, about 200 yards from the YFZ Ranch fenceline. There are enough rich oilmen out there whod put a drilling rig next to the temple just to see the look on their faces, J.D. Doyle said.

  • Re: Busted | 11:19 a.m
    April 27, 2008 11:38 a.m.

    Word of God?? Do you think God speaks to Warren Jeffs anymore than he speaks to a Post reporter? LOL!

    Im saying Floyd is a liar and intentionally misquoted the Post.

    Floyd = FLDS Polygamist

    LOL! Time to change your moniker, dude!

  • Mom
    April 27, 2008 11:27 a.m.

    Since when do the FLDS people care about losing a couple of teenage boys? It's standard practice for them to kick teenage boys out and leave them to fend for themselves.

    How do we know these women are really the boys mothers? What with all of the former FLDS parents submitting DNA from out-of-state claiming their families had been stolen from them and "reassigned" to someone else.

    Perhaps they can't "find" these kids, because they were indoctrinated so well to lie to anyone outside of the compound, that these boys are doing as their mothers taught and aren't giving out their real names.

    I think this is yet another PR ploy from the FLDS to garner sympathy and divert attention from the real reasons the children were removed in the first place.

  • Busted
    April 27, 2008 11:19 a.m.

    Are you saying the Washington post is the word of god.

  • RE: Floyd | 10:04 a.m
    April 27, 2008 11:00 a.m.


    I READ the article in the Washington Post this morning, and you obviously need to go back and re-read it. The Post NEVER said that there was no actual abuse of any child, as you boldly claim! It said that the state will argue that ALL the children are at risk because of the pervasive culture of abuse among early teen girls.

    From the Post:
    The state will argue that the sect's children are at risk at the compound, but not because EVERY ONE of them has been physically or sexually abused.
    Instead, they will say that the culture of the church, which encouraged girls to marry and bear children in their early teens, was a danger to any child immersed in it.

    Nice try, though Floyd. You need to refrain from spreading lies and disinformation on this board.

  • interesting
    April 27, 2008 11:00 a.m.

    Interesting that a FLDS commentor accuses "Anybody supporting this..." of not being a good parent. It seems that they believe they are good parents and the only good parents.
    They often bring up the Spears girls as a reason not to remove their children. They make it sound as if the rest of the world lives in immorality.

  • to harsh thoughts
    April 27, 2008 10:57 a.m.

    These women and children were taken into custody without the chance to speak to an attorney. Not even a search warrant for every house, just the compound. It is like CPS coming into your town and taking all children without you being able to speak to a lawyer. I too wouldn't say much until I get to speak with a lawyer. The more you say the more they will use this info against you. And maybe they did give the right names but CPS couldn't distinguish between all the same dressed, same hair style women and children. We don't know the complete story but I like to support families and a loving environment for the children, not foster care. There are very few good foster homes, with most it is easy to spot who is not their child by how this child is treated. I have worked with foster parents, seen it first hand every day! This is a war against a peculiar religion, hidden behind the "care of the children." Let's give Texas to Castro, that's how he runs his country.

  • Floyd
    April 27, 2008 10:55 a.m.

    The story says "CPS SAYS they can't find the boys". That info comes from the state of TEXAS, NOT the parents. Why are people so ready to say FLDS is lying?? Just because the CPS worker says so??
    I see the term "false prophet" thrown around here a lot.
    Question, "Who determines who is a true prophet???"
    I don't know that, you don't know that.

    If Jesus returned today, someone would lock him up for not having proper identification.

  • Endangered species
    April 27, 2008 10:47 a.m.

    These FLDS polygamy sites bring out all the whackos,and perverts. A real religious group of people I must say--NOT!!

    I'm certain the boys are ok. They will find them.

  • Hey
    April 27, 2008 10:45 a.m.

    Yeah now the children will be safe and sound. I knew a family yes even a "good family" that took in all kinds of foster children and adopted many of them. They had the respect of many in the community and church. It was found out later that the father was molesting them when found out he shot and killed himself. I think what has happened in Texas is absolutely horrible. They have gone too far! If we let them get away with this it will come back to haunt every one of us in this country! Mark my word! It affects all of us.

  • harsh thoughts
    April 27, 2008 10:42 a.m.

    These are harsh thoughts... if the parents would have cooperated and given only one name per child and one set of perents per child they would not be in this mess at all.
    If the parent swould have protected their children from abuse in the first place they would still be at home.
    The children are reported as unaccounted for not missing. So a boy and his brother named... hmmm... what was his name today? Was it David or was that the name he used last week? Perhaps they have all the children they just don't know which 2 boys the mother is looking for right now.

    The child in the hospital is still in protective custody. Do you really expect you can call in and ask for a child's room # and her condition? You will be told there is no child listed by that name.

  • captive flds children dot org
    April 27, 2008 10:37 a.m.

    Van deusen says that they children were at risk for sexual abuse. Are you kidding? They are even more at risk in foster care. I am positive a 0-10 year old was not at risk for being married off to older man or what not, why rip them from their families and throw them into a whole different world? Talk about traumatic! I agree that the FLDS church has gone wrong somewhere but this cruelty to families against all constitutional rights is evil. Anybody supporting this must not be a good parent!

  • War In Jeffs
    April 27, 2008 10:25 a.m.

    Irony: People that allow a deranged leader to destroy families by kicking out the father and reassigning the wives and children to other men. Then these same people cry that their families are being destroyed when the government intervenes in their pervasive abuses against children.
    Irony: People who allow for the expulsion of innocent young men at the command of a deranged leader yet fabricate a story of two lost boys. This cult cultivates the act of losing boys.

  • Peter Falling Rock
    April 27, 2008 10:21 a.m.

    Susan in VA please do not insult my ancestors and compare this to what happened to the Indians. My ancestors were not raping their children. My ancestors were not cheating the welfare system. My children do not worship a false prophet. My ancestors did not teach hatred towards the Blacks. Stop being an apologist for child rape!

  • Take off the blinders
    April 27, 2008 10:10 a.m.

    Another DesNews story as told from the FLDS perspective.

    If it was anyone other than the FLDS making all these allegations against CPS, Id surely believe them; but the FLDS havent cooperated with identification and are quite evidently a bunch of accomplished liars.

    Why does the DesNews seem to think that anything that comes out of their mouth is newsworthy?

    The FLDS are trying to drum up a little Short Creek Sympathy, and by the look of these posts most of Utah is falling for it. You people are the devil, according to them. Theyd just as soon bleed the beast and not have anything to do with you...that is, up until recently. They are manipulating you through the media, and many of you cant even see it.

    Bleed the Beast? What a laugh! The Beast is Hemorrhaging in Utah!

  • Lilathe
    April 27, 2008 10:05 a.m.

    CPS is STILL trying to blame this on the FLDS. CPS took pictures, fingerprints and DNA from each and every child. They took the children away from their parents. How can it be the parents fault about names if CPS ITSELF took the pictures, names, fingerprints?

    This is not the first time a child has been lost in CPS care. Do a little research. It took Florida CPS 8 months to even notice one baby was missing, Rilya was her name. She is still missing years later.
    I can look up the exact number of "lost" children in CPS care at the moment. I will go try to find it.

  • Floyd
    April 27, 2008 10:04 a.m.

    Today,Sunday 4/27 In The Washington Post. Is a story that should cause fear to any citizen of this country.
    It says that even though there was NO actual abuse of any child at the FLDS compound, the state of Texas will prove that the belief system of the FLDS is abuse in and of itself.
    This means Texas will attempt to declare a RELIGOUS group illegal.
    What's next?? a state list of approved churches??
    Is YOUR church on the list??
    I don't support the belief's of the FLDS but I support the right to believe what ever they want as GUARANTEED by our Constitution. This has been to Court many times and the Constitution won every time.
    The state admission of NO ABUSE found and the TRUE direction of the state should be apparent now. BUT all the people that blindly go on believing the state sponsored lies won't believe the truth.

  • Gerore
    April 27, 2008 10:01 a.m.

    >>And as long as we are discussing 'lost' children, where are all the teen BOYS?

  • wrz
    April 27, 2008 9:59 a.m.

    >>On what grounds did they remove infants? While the "threat" to older female children seems to be substantial, where is the threat to the babies?

  • Ray
    April 27, 2008 9:55 a.m.

    Not to worry guys, I read where Judge Walthers told CPS that she was taking ultamate responsibility for these kids! I hope she is watching!!

  • Anonymous
    April 27, 2008 9:54 a.m.

    They don't even seem concerned that they have lost these two little boys. It certainly calls their competence into question.

  • Samuel
    April 27, 2008 9:44 a.m.

    ***At least the children are now out of that dreadful compound.***

    That's right. Out into foster care... where a high percentage of kids are known to be sexually and physically abused.

  • Correction
    April 27, 2008 9:35 a.m.

    The title of the documentary is 'Jesus Camp'. If these children were rescued from psychological abuse, there would not be enough foster homes to house them all.
    If a State, let's say, had one in four girls sexually abused, and it could be attributed somewhat to the submissive nature of the mothers and in part to the authoritarian lifestyle which the children are raised under, or even if it was because of naive teachings, or what if that State "went too soft" on offenders; would it be just fine to swoop in and seize all of the children in a mass roundup. Of course not! The people of America would stand up and protect these Religions and there would be no tolerance for taking children from all. I am not saying this lifestyle is ideal. But these people are mothers who love there children very very much and deserve the same Constitutional rights as every one else.

  • In Danger Of?
    April 27, 2008 9:22 a.m.

    Since when is it legal to remove an entire community because of the potential of "possible" abuse? If a Mormon Bishop or any other faith's clergy molests one of the young girls or boys in the congregation, and the parents continue to attend and worship with that faith, then would it be alright to remove the children from the entire congregation?
    I can't imagine what these mothers are going through after this many weeks.Why is there not an Amber Alert issued for these missing children?
    It is hard to believe this is the United States of America. Texas has a poor histiry with dealing fairly with religious peoples. I recently watched a documentary "Bible Camp".This polygamy lifestyle and worship is mild compared to what those folks do to children at young ages.
    This will probably end up in the Supreme Court, but even that will be too little too late for these children. Why can't they go home with their mother's and remove all of the men from the area until this is sorted out on a case by case basis?Remember...A month for a child is a long long long time.A day in fear feelslike forever.

  • SJ in Utah
    April 27, 2008 9:12 a.m.

    If you think that this same thing hasn't happen to other families in other states you're just crazy. AZ has done that in the past but you never hear about it unless you're in a specific group. Get real. The FLDS have a voice and others don't. Look at the source of where the news is coming from. How do we know we are getting all of the facts. Don't be so quick to accept what is being reported as true facts. The press have lied in the past.

  • Shame on...
    April 27, 2008 9:08 a.m.

    This really all goes back to the core. If the FLDS weren't having child marriages and molesting their young in the name of God THEN THIS WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED. Wake up people and focus on the REAL cause. I know our judicial system could use a major overhaul. That's why I vote "NO" on all judges and you should too. People may say that the FLDS will sue and win Texas but they won't sue if they are truely Christ-Like. Look at the Amish.

  • About Ayzel
    April 27, 2008 9:03 a.m.

    She probably has no children and that is why she made that remark. Because only a person who hasn't had children and never wanted them would say something so cruel to a parent.

    Ayzel I was forced to give up 3 of my children for adoption 15 years ago - my hear still aches. My oldest son hates me for doing it as he loved his two sisters and youngest brother. Luckily the children were older with the youngest being 6 at the time. I have had to fight CPS and a majority of the time the workers have no children of their own and feel that they know more about raising children than the parents do. I actually had a worker with a vandetta against his exwife that he took out on me. He had twin sons which his ex wouldn't let him see.

    Bytheway they can do everything CPS gets court ordered for them to do but they will never get their kids back. And yes parents are threaten with "f you don't this you will never get your kids back." I still have the letter to prove it.

  • Utah mom
    April 27, 2008 8:59 a.m.

    Child Protective Services in any state definately has too much power. I have seen what they can do here in Utah and I am afraid for the FLDS children of Texas and for their mothers. I believe FLDS mothers when they were told they wouldn't see their children again if they went back to the ranch. I have seen these threats. I think they are evil! I am disgusted with Texas and their officials and my heart goes out to the FLDS families and their children. I think FLDS should be entitled to a massive law suit against the state of Texas!

  • Rob
    April 27, 2008 8:53 a.m.

    They probably took all the children because they could have been moved to another location by the male leaders. Then these children would have been either kicked out because they were competing with the old men or 'married' to the older men. I can't believe the confusion caused by the mother's and children not giving their right names. I bet we will see quite a few women and children happy that they were taken out of this environment. Every person has a right to freedom and these women and children have not had that. Rape, incest and abuse by lots of men is what this is about.

  • Anonymous
    April 27, 2008 8:50 a.m.

    2 Boys? They're NOW concerned about 2 boys? It'll save them the trouble of driving them out of town in a few years. I can't believe all the folks who are falling for the "concerned mother" acts. The only thing these women are concerned with is popping out more kids for the prophet.

  • Cal
    April 27, 2008 8:38 a.m.

    Keeping mothers separated from their young children is criminal and certainly against nature. If Texas just wants to harass the FLDS, they have succeeded. As an LDS member, I'd like to see pologamy stamped out, but there should be a better way.

  • School Teacher
    April 27, 2008 8:36 a.m.

    When a local elementary 'lost' two young girls for an hour they started a manhunt till they found them a mile away from the school. I remember the helicopters circling above, the school having likely the entire police department on campus and parents and children were traumatized. That school had almost double the children as CPS just took and they knew within five minutes of recess that they were missing and the search began.

  • john b
    April 27, 2008 8:35 a.m.

    the spokesman for cps said they had the right count at each place .maybe she should use the same name every time so people would know who she is talking about. every one wants to jump all over the state but if they had went into a place where children were being abused and left your child there i bet it would be another story. lets let the courts do there work and get this settled .if there was abuse punish the perps and take care of them familys and if not get the kids back to the mothers where most children belong.i say most because if the mothers are abuseing their children they dont deserve them

  • Whose Accounting?
    April 27, 2008 8:36 a.m.

    The headline seems a bit spectacular - or written by the FLDS. The story says that they DO know where all of the kids are, each child removed from the ranch is accounted for. What the story also says is that since they still don't know who is related in what way to who it's hard to tell the "mother" where her boys are. Nobody is lost, except in the mass of confusion created by the changing names and relationships these folks give from one day to the next.
    Save the headline though, just in case someone really does go missing.

  • Thought Police
    April 27, 2008 8:33 a.m.

    The most troubling part of this article comes near the end - "Yet the Department of Family and Protective Services has so far argued that each child who lived at the ranch was in danger because of a pattern of sexual, physical and emotional abuse there. Investigators described a "pattern of grooming girls from a young age to accept becoming married to middle-aged men" and identified 20 girls and women who got pregnant between the ages of 13 and 16."

    Read between the lines and this is about the FLDS belief system. Substitute "because they refuse medical care" or "because they don't believe in modern technology" and the attack on this group's beliefs becomes clear.

    As for the women, did they become pregnant before TX raised thier marriage age up from 14? How old were the fathers at the time? Does that really matter? How many other underage prenancies have DCFS handled in a similar manner, IE removing the child and any siblings from the custody of the mother/parents? In this era of reproductive rights, my guess is zero.

  • Anonymous
    April 27, 2008 8:30 a.m.

    How come no one is commenting on the child in the hospital? Yes CPS lost two kids (of a family subgroup of more than just those two judging by the age differences), that shouldn't surprise anyone. But the fact that a child is in the hospital shows the alarming abuse CPS has allowed to these children.

  • humangps
    April 27, 2008 8:15 a.m.

    The accused are adult men, not the women or children. They should have arrested and removed the men based on probable cause then found evidence to support their claims. Removing the children and relocating them in this manner is a ridiculous violation of the constitution.

    Does the state do sweeps through under privileged neighborhoods in Dallas and Houston to remove children from single parent drug addiction crime infested homes and neighborhoods? Or is this where they will relocate some of the FLDS kids so that they can be assimilated into the real world?

  • delilah
    April 27, 2008 8:06 a.m.

    IF there are indeed missing children, then then there is obviously something wrong with this system. Hopefully it will turn out to be an erroneous report.

    Told ya so

    "When it was found earlier that the jack-booted thugs didn't have an accurate count of how many children they ripped from their mothers' arms, I commented here saying that this very thing was going to happen."

    You really should get your facts straight. The only reason the number of 'children' shifted is because the girls lied about their ages and were determined to also be minors.

    And we should not forget the 20 girls already determined to have given birth while they were underage. That is a crime, and NONE of this would be happening if these people were not breaking the law and abusing children in the first place. If blame is going to be placed it falls squarely on the shoulders of the abusers

    And as long as we are discussing 'lost' children, where are all the teen BOYS?

  • Chief
    April 27, 2008 7:58 a.m.

    Go to Scout Camp and lose track of two young boys, and listen to the howl. Every soul is great, or maybe not!

  • Disgusted with Texas
    April 27, 2008 7:42 a.m.

    Good thing Texas decided to come in and keep them safe. Mass herding doesn't work so well!

    I do not condone any abuse, but that includes abuse by the government officials who ignore the constitution and deny Americans their rights.

  • Kris in AL
    April 27, 2008 7:37 a.m.

    On what grounds did they remove infants? While the "threat" to older female children seems to be substantial, where is the threat to the babies? Where is the threat to the boys?

    How does the constitution justify removing breast feeding babies from mothers who are not suspected of physical abuse?

    While I think the adults in this compound are extremely wacky, I see no consitutional justification for removing the children younger than 8.

  • Anonymous
    April 27, 2008 7:31 a.m.

    WTF? It is not the responsibility of the mothers of these children to ensure the CPS has the correct count, is it? I mean, a government agency with the power and authority to enter a home and break up a family should have its accounting ducks in a row, shouldn't they? Is it too much to ask that a government agency with the power and authority to enter a home and break up a family ensure accurate records are kept, children are accounted for, and mothers and informed as to the status of their children (even if they aren't allowed to visit)? First it was 416 kids taken. Now its something like 437? And a mother says she can't get ANY information on her two children?

    "Those (allegations) are absolutely false. No one from CPS would say that," Van Deusen said. The best legal defense I've heard to date. I wonder if "No one from the FLDS church would do that to a child" will stand up in court, or in public opinion. What a travesty and a shame. I hope this leads to some serious revision of CPS in Texas.

  • Mahonri
    April 27, 2008 7:24 a.m.

    When they were at home with their parents we knew where they were.
    Wait until some die or are molested while in "protective custody". It is only a matter of time.

    April 27, 2008 7:21 a.m.

    WRONG that all the children were taken from individual households without proof that that household was involved in underage marrage --- A TEXAS ROUNDUP

    WRONG that some FLDS participate in underage marrage --- CHILD MOLESTATION

  • inept cps
    April 27, 2008 7:22 a.m.

    I said it before and I say it again. They will lose someone. There will be a tragedy. The chance of a death is high. There will be a coverup. CPS and the foster care system is undertrained, underpaid, an self-admittedly overwhelmed. It's Texas's own Iraq quagmire. But, hey, it is a nice retirement plan for the combatants.

  • bj in Utah
    April 27, 2008 7:17 a.m.

    some say patriotism, some say religion, I say the Texas state Child protective services is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Our own state agency isn't much better. "We did it for the children", they will say with quivering lower lip. The road to Hades is paved with good intentions. The FLDS church might well have a problem with polygamy, but to raid an entire community with storm trooper mentality and abduct all the children without evidence, only unsubstantiated second hand information is just plain wrong!

  • jjc
    April 27, 2008 6:34 a.m.

    You mean it's a hoax like the call that "justified" the raid? I guess the flds are fast learners.

  • Susan in VA
    April 27, 2008 6:33 a.m.

    I do not agree with the beliefs of the FLDS, however I do believe these children should have been housed with their mothers. The two boys are children of a loving mother who is worried sick about them. (ayzel... small price to pay? not if they are your kids) This whole thing is a travesty of justice and reminds me of the taking of the Native American children. i thought we had learned better. Just because they are different doesn't meke them abusive... sheme on the Texas CPS.

  • Douglas
    April 27, 2008 5:35 a.m.

    I love this stuff indicating that "saving" a few kids justifies trashing the same American rights and principles that millions of our forfathers gave their lives for. If your bleeeding heart can't stand a few childrens at risk, just spend your energy fighting legalized abortion (ie, reproductive freedom). If the constitutional issues were worth a million plus of our lives, how can we throw them away upon the first vague allegations child abuse? Why not investigate, identify the individuals who have actually broken the law, arrest, try and punish them? It is, after all, what we do to everone else alleged to have broken a criminal law in this Country.

    Depriving a person of the most basic Constituional liberties based solely upon membership in a religious (or any other) group, without independant inquiry into that persons conduct, without hearing, right to counsel, etc, is supposed to prohibited by our Constitution and American heritage. The terrorists in Guantanomo (not Americans) have been afforded more Constituional protections than these Americans have.

  • um...
    April 27, 2008 5:31 a.m.

    why wouldn't they know where the boys are if they are actually missing? Shouldn't a list be kept of who went where?

  • Told ya so...
    April 27, 2008 4:45 a.m.

    When it was found earlier that the jack-booted thugs didn't have an accurate count of how many children they ripped from their mothers' arms, I commented here saying that this very thing was going to happen. How many more children is the state of Texas going to lose? Oh well, those children aren't their children...just the children of some "weird" religious sect.

    When this is all over and the lawsuits are all done, the FLDS church is going to own the state of Texas.

  • CA
    April 27, 2008 4:36 a.m.

    I, too, am not very sympathetic.

    There is no way two kids are missing. They could not have escaped the ring of media and lawyers surrounding the town. Most likely the 'loss' is due to misidtification- a problem caused by the 'parents'.

    I also doubt the woman has only two kids- and 11 year old and a toddler.

  • 2 lost is a small price?
    April 27, 2008 4:32 a.m.

    Then why don't you hand over two of your children?

    How cruel, heartless, and mean to suggest that the complete loss of two children is just some sort of bargain or collateral damage , a small price to pay. You sicken me.

  • chemist
    April 27, 2008 2:50 a.m.

    I agree with ayzel. The flds have lied about so many things they are most probably lying about this, At least the children are now out of that dreadful compound.

  • Greywolf
    April 27, 2008 2:12 a.m.

    ayzel you are kidding right? Please say your kidding about losing two children is a small price to pay.


  • What?!!!
    April 27, 2008 2:09 a.m.

    Two lost over 400 "saved" is a small price to pay?" What an outragious horror! My friends in Europe and Australia cannot believe what is going on in the US, although some of them express contempt for the US justice system that I find myself incapable of defending under these circumstances. To think that this is the same country that gave shelter to those who were mistreated in the "old countries" for their religious beliefs! The Baptists better remember that they were once as persecuted for being "heretics" as these people are. As revolting as I consider polygamy to be, it does not justify to do what the authorities in Texas have been doing. Only the totalitarian regimes of this world behave in such a way. Those among us who call ourselves Christians better remember to behave as such. Where is the love and compassion? Where is the Samaritan's creed? Would we like to have our children taken away from us in such an absolutely cruel way? Why do some amongs us aplaud this travesty? This is the way of the Beast. Saving the children? What a hypocrisy!

  • AZ mother
    April 27, 2008 1:56 a.m.

    While I agree with CPS attempting to protect these children, I don't see that the fathers are to concerned. As for (and I quote) "Even if it is true, 2 lost for over 400 saved is a small price to pay". Would you like it if those two were your children. What a lack of compassion statement.

  • ayzel
    April 27, 2008 1:23 a.m.

    Oh whatever. They're probably inventing these boys, in an attempt to further convince the public that CPS screwed up. Even if it is true, 2 lost for over 400 saved is a small price to pay.