Judge in FLDS case peppers CPS with questions

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  • Max
    May 3, 2008 6:30 a.m.

    Polgamy is not against the law. Bigamy is. Basically, I could technically father as many kids from as many woman as I want as long as I'm only "legally" married
    to one woman.

    The only potential crime that any one has been accused with (not charged with BTW) is statutory rape.

    Back to your regularly scheduled witch hunt.

  • To the FLDS &supporters
    April 27, 2008 10:15 a.m.

    The state will do DNA testing for any underage pregnant girl. They will find the father and if he is an adult he will be prosecuted. If he is also underage he could still be prosecuted in juvenille court.
    The things happening now are just the same (only on a much larger scale) as the things that have happened in the rest of society. That includes the actions by CPS.
    You (the FLDS) are not being treated any more unfairly than the rest of the population has been treated. If you had been honest (no shell games with the children) in the first place or if you had come clean in the first couple of days none of this would be happening to you. YOU have brought this on yourselves.

    The rest of the nation could have the same things done to them ONLY if they break the same laws and encourage abuse (sex with a 13 year old girl) or abandonment of children.

  • Innocent until proven guilty
    April 26, 2008 1:05 p.m.

    Pastor Martin Niemoller (1892-1984) summed up the current scenario very well in his poem which was written, according to Wikipedia, about the inactivity of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after group. It goes like this:

    When the Nazis came for the communists,
    I remained silent;
    I was not a communist.

    When they locked up the social democrats,
    I remained silent;
    I was not a social democrat.

    When they came for the trade unionists,
    I did not speak out;
    I was not a trade unionist.

    When they came for the Jews,
    I remained silent;
    I wasnt a Jew.

    When they came for me,
    There was no one left to speak out.

  • Skeptic
    April 26, 2008 12:14 p.m.

    Former judge Andrew Napolitano stated on Fox News that this is how the Nazis started their control of pre war Germany. The Germans did not take the Jewish citizens to the concentration camps at first. Not until the final solution decreed by Hitler did the concentration camps come into existence. He thinks the state of Texas will pay dearly in public opinion and money in future law suits. This is not my opinion; however when a former federal prosecutor and judge make a statement like this it will carry weight. This will be a very interesting case when it gets into the federal court system. I am not a lawyer so I do not know if any or all of the allegations are real. I will reserve my opinion until the case matures. However I do think Texas has opened a can of worms that will consume a substantial amount of the Texas citizens tax dollars. The Texas CPS practices will have to endure intense scrutiny in the federal courts.

  • concerned
    April 24, 2008 12:36 p.m.

    How dare anybody compare this to the Nazi holocaust? Are the FDLS being taken to concentration camps and gassed to death? I think not. They are being fed and cared for by tax payers as they have been all along. There is absolutely no comparison. It is a disrespect to all Jews and survivors of the holocaust to even compare the two. Jews did not practice poligamy and rape their children. They were victims. These men are criminals and their wives and children are victims of the men and nobody else. DEPROGRAM

  • bzmom
    April 24, 2008 11:09 a.m.

    I have a cousin that is involved with this and has 3 wives and 23 children. His oldest daughter was married very young to a 43 year old and 3 children very young. She was fortunate to get out of this situation but not without complete fear of her life. Her bothers were kicked out of the sect around 14-15 and went through more than you can imagine. Fortunately 3 of her bothers have had lots of help from family(outside of this sect)and have gotten things in order and doing much better with jobs and a semi normal life. It would make your skin crawl if you could hear the real things that go on behind closed doors. It's about time a state stood up to these perverts and is trying to help these children out of this hellish situation. It's just too bad Utah and Az. have swept it under the rug for so many years. Texas needs to be commended for trying to do something to help these kids escape. Talk to someone who's lived it and your attitude just might change. Crimes against children are against the law for any "religion" GO TEXAS

  • Ron
    April 24, 2008 10:43 a.m.

    It seems that we no longer have any rights and the government can do anything they want without probable cause. As to home schooling kids my daughter was home schooled till the 8th grade and had to be tested.(seems she was smarter than most of the adults in law enforcement in texas.

  • Mike
    April 24, 2008 10:38 a.m.

    to Concerned Mother

    I notice that you didn't disavow the practice of marrying young girls to older men, or of the ability of leaders to "take" families away and "assigning" them to others.

    "If this can happen to people just because they decide to live differently,"

    So "living differently" involving child abuse is okay with you? Spare me!

    Even if Carolyn Jessop wasn't telling the truth, how about the scores of others who have "escaped" the nightmare of that sect and have written of exactly the same thing?

  • Bruce
    April 24, 2008 10:06 a.m.

    If polygamy laws ever make it to court, they will be shot down. In this age of same-sex marriage, tv, video games, illegal immigrants (criminals), this should be way on the back burner.
    There are gated communities all over our nation that practice separatism (by class...somehow that is ok but separatism by race/religion is not?) and we don't refer to them as "compounds".
    Our ugly ethnocentrism is showing.
    Texas owes an apology, and probably a lot more.

  • show me the money
    April 24, 2008 9:37 a.m.

    Thank Hillary's It takes a Village for the game plan of CPS and the Utah A G. When the 400+ kids were taken they were deemed Special and therefor worth $6,000.oo for Texas CPS. Increasing the national debt for who?

  • Just Adding Insult to Injury
    April 24, 2008 9:16 a.m.

    Everything about polygamy aside--removing these children permanently from their mothers is just going to traumatize these children further. Is there no way they can stay together? Maybe a guarded new kind of "compound". (Yes,I know the ACLU and freedom-at-all-costs folks are livid at such a suggestion) We have seen others who have broken away from these kinds of groups of their own free will, who have pulled it together and learned it was all a perverted lifestyle. The state is paying for these FLDS now, it may as well keep on paying for them--to try to see that the both the mothers and the children be "de-programed" and re-learn about correct society, correct values, etc. and rescue them from the warped system they come from. The state (and Fed. government and all of us) can pay for them now, to fix things and produce an educated, emotionally and mentally healthy segment of Texas' population or we can pay for them later--in welfare costs, jail costs, medicaid etc. that will surely come if they are not taught a new way of thinking and of living, and become contributing, responsible, well-adjusted citizens.

  • Concerned Mother
    April 24, 2008 8:57 a.m.

    I'm FLDS. I just want it known that we do not pray for anyone, including Mark Shurtliff to be harmed in any way. He is not telling the truth as also Carolyn Jessop is not. I've known her and worked with her. She is not telling the truth. She is going off of her own feelings. We believe the teachings of our Savior--"pray for those who spitefully use you." As for the Great State of Texas--Did you forget, or never knew that God will judge the judges to? How, in this world where drug abuse, alcohol, promiscuous pregnancy were the child is not wanted, Media that is only interested in telling of corruption because that is what sells and is not interested in the truth because truth is clean and not enticing to the corrupt general mass of people, children and women beaten (really beaten-not just accused by someone with revenge in their heart), how can you say the people of the FLDS deserve this kind of treatment. If this can happen to people just because they decide to live differently, WHY DO WE HAVE A CONSTITUTION? HOW SAFE ARE YOU?

  • double standard
    April 24, 2008 8:34 a.m.

    Wow, it sure would be interesting if communities around the nation were raided every time a pregnant teen was found. The CPS would find itself extremely busy then. Oh and by the way, I do not agree with polygamy at all, but at least the men are marrying these girls and taking the responsibility to care for their children, unlike the millions of men in this world who sleep around with multiple partners as proof of their "manliness" and then refuse to be real men and take responsibility for the children they bring into this world.

  • Thanks Red
    April 24, 2008 8:03 a.m.

    From the help4kids link that you gave, there was a direct link to helpthechildbrides. It seems clear that you only care about justice for the FLDS, while simultaneously forgetting the injustice occurring by the Nazi FLDS group.

  • Wanting truth
    April 24, 2008 7:38 a.m.

    Is there a place to find out what the truth about this situation is; more than just opinion one side or the other?

  • An ex-flds
    April 24, 2008 7:12 a.m.

    One ex-flds man has already stepped forward stating that his children and their mother were "reassigned" and went across state borders without his permission. He drove to Texas, with a picture of this children, hoping to regain custody. Apparently for some of you this isn't a crime either and that running over state lines with children is acceptable. It isn't.
    For those of you that think you understand DNA, please quit writing. If two sets of twins marry another set of twins, the dna of the children will be different. While identical twins have the same genotype, they WILL NOT have the same phenotype. If fraternal twins you have this: My brother married my husband's sister. The mtDNA is from two different haplogroups, forget even simple mutations. The Y-chromosome is also different as is expected. In other words, they do not even look related. While pervasive consanguinity will require some additional testing, it is not close to being an impossible task. As a matter of fact, it would be nice if they tracked for Fumerase Deficiency, an autosomal recessive founder's disease supported by incest in the community. Kingston Clan incest is even worse.

  • CA
    April 24, 2008 6:54 a.m.

    Not many of the parents are showing up for their cheek swabs?!


    Well, not really. I suspect the 'parents' either are afraid of being charged with crimes, or don't want the kids back since the are no longer "clean and pure", as they call it. Or brainwashed, as normal people call it.

  • Also to Avengeance
    April 24, 2008 6:50 a.m.

    I find it humorous that you consider this group self-sufficient especially given the "bleeding the beast"/welfare fraud that pervades the community. I consider them extremely dependent on my tax dollars. I also wonder how honest they are regarding taxes.

  • to just asking.
    April 24, 2008 6:47 a.m.

    While your brother's may be married to your husband's sisters, you will find that there mtDNA is not even the same. It will not be difficult to determine parentage, even with consanguinity of the part of the FLDS.

  • Due Process?
    April 24, 2008 1:23 a.m.

    The vast majority of mothers are of legal age currently, do you really think it is fair to label 100% of these families the same and rip children away from their parents even when no laws have been broken by a majority of the families? When many many of the families report to be happy and no problems going on, are their rights as parents and US Citizens being protected by this power monger Judge? I have no problem taking a few of the isolated cases out of the group where evidence shows an unsafe environment, but to label each and every family as a dangerous environment is insane, illegal and unjust.

    If this was truely legal, then they could also come for you and your neighbors next (no matter what religion you are) and do the same thing to your family without evidence or due process! I am not saying a couple of those families don't have issues, but this sounds more and more like Nazi Germany and early Communist Russia, pulling families out of their homes without any cause or direct charges!

  • to mensem
    April 24, 2008 12:28 a.m.

    In general I agree with Mensem. Only where there is proof of a crime should the government be involved. I do not want to have polygamy but I am of mixed emotions whether it should be against the law. One is enuf for me.

    Wait till 400 hundred cases of attachment disorder kicks in with all of these children.

    This reminds me of Iraq....No right to invade...No plan for an exit....unbearable collateral damage.

  • L
    April 23, 2008 11:52 p.m.

    I we tend to get off on tangents so I will mention one that struck me funny. *sigh* at 2:32 talks about having Warren Jeff's picture on the wall as clear evidence of abuse.

    While not a supporter of Mr. Jeffs I would hate to think that by having a certain photo (Even Hitler) on my wall would be enough proof to take my children away.

    In fact I do have a photo on my wall of one who was accused of disobeying the laws of the land, that is Christ. Some of the people there thought he was terrible and I understand there were many Christians put to death because of their professed beliefs in him.

    To make the jump from a photo on the wall to an assumption that the owners of the home are child abusers is a pretty big jump in my book.

    It seems that I remember others, like Malcom X, that others may not have agreed with having his photo displayed. I don't believe the display of a photo is evidence to me of practicing child abuse, DO YOU ?

  • Firefly
    April 23, 2008 11:48 p.m.

    There is an April 17 interview with Sheriff Doran in the Eldorado Success newspaper, in which Doran says the search warrant was not based entirely on the phone call from "Sarah". He says the warrant was also based on info. that he "and others" had gathered over the last four years, through working with an informant who was NOT living at the ranch (Flora Jessop, some say), and from info. gathered from 5-6 trips to Utah and AZ.

    I've been thinking - FLDS escapee Carolyn Jessop and others say that many of the YFZ women and children were separated from their families in Utah and AZ and "reassigned" to different men and families at YFZ by Warren Jeffs. And there's all this DNA testing, and the FBI was involved in the raid. SO - I bet they're investigating kidnapping across state lines, and perhaps this will end up with kidnapping charges against Warren Jeffs and Jeffs' brothers and cousins.
    I think law enforcement wants to go after these ring leaders and break up not the pre-Warren Jeffs FLDS, but the FLDS as it was run by Jeffs (separating families, forcing young girls to "marry", and kicking out the boys).

  • Rear view mirror
    April 23, 2008 10:35 p.m.

    Noting that history tends to repeat itself, I foresee in the next few years enormous law suits being launched against the state of Texas for this injustice. When these children come to the age of majority and are free from state run foster care, they will have first hand knowledge of how the state forcibly attempted to de-culturize them, (ethnic cleansing) and there will be lawyers aplenty eager to earn a hefty sum defending their cases. Haven't we learned this lesson before when we forceably removed Americans of Japanese descent from their homes, abolished civil rights of black Americans, and when we tried to "civilize" native Americans by removing them from the reservations to teach them "our" way of life at residential schools? How much have we paid for these past fiascos? Face it: society EVOLVES, except in Texas where it DISSOLVES. What seemed unacceptable 50 years ago is mainstream today. It will be the next generation of Texans who will be paying tens of millions of dollars in settlements for this un-Constitutional attempt at destroying a generation of children and a way of life.

  • Douglas
    April 23, 2008 10:05 p.m.

    The 2004 CPS Handbook,(Oct. 2004) section 6121 "The Decision to Remove A Child" begins with the following exact quote: "Before removing a child from his or her home, CPS must explore every reasonable alternative for keeping the child safe from abuse and neglect. The decision to remove the child only occurs when there is no reasonable way to protect the child from abuse or neglect in the immediate or short-term future without removal" (see appendix F to the Office of Inspector General Child Protective Services Investigation Report, 12/10/2004).

    Reading their "Handbook" and trying to square their FLDS actions (and legal positions before the court) makes clear that CPS is absolutely, positively out of control, even by their own standards and rule book. To review all the steps they say they must take first, and then review the FLDS case (where they took none of those steps), causes one to question the motivation of the CPS leadership. To publish a written policy and proceedures manual and then out right ignore it (in actions and legal arguments) is actually a great relief to me, since they first sacrificed their own "code" prior to utterly trampling these Americans' constitutional rights.

  • Ironic Mike
    April 23, 2008 9:38 p.m.

    I guess the thing that bothers me most is that because of a prank phone call, the Texas CPS suddenly gives itself the right to pull 500 children away from their mothers and throw them into foster care. Shouldn't there be a bit more proof of underage marriage/rape and shouldn't it be on a case by case basis? In other words, if one girl is raped, take her away, arrest her parents and anyone else involved, but don't send 500 innocents to foster care.

    I don't condone what the FLDS are doing to young children but I think Texas needs to attack the problem much differently. Start by going after the men and keep the children in their homes for now.

  • a better way
    April 23, 2008 9:20 p.m.

    Punish lawbreakers but don't break up families. There a plenty of FLDS folks who are being punished for the action of one man. Stop punishing the whole community.

  • shocked
    April 23, 2008 9:11 p.m.

    I'm surprised with those who say the law was broken about polygamy. When will the state take your children because you have some crazy ideas. When the government takes children away from mothers as in Texas it won't be long before all religions will be considered bad for children. Nazi Germany had laws. Family's were seperated by the police and good Germans stood by pointing at the Jews(FLDS). Were all 400+ children raped? Our high school has 3 classrooms for the children of unwed mothers while they finish high school. Why isn't the state grabing these children from their mothers and placing them in foster care? Get over polygamy and see what really is happening.

  • Texas Slim
    April 23, 2008 9:11 p.m.

    This kidnapping by the state stinks to high heaven. Hope the FLDS' Dream Team bankrupt CPS and some others. Is the Governor in hiding? Must be on a fishing trip or something like that. Maybe he's in the hospital in a coma. Hope he gets well soon. I know he's never let the state kidnap kids like this. Maybe the FBI needs to be involved. No, not after the Waco massacre. Well theres nobody to protect the kids and their mothers right now except the Dream Team.

  • Re:Mensem
    April 23, 2008 8:51 p.m.

    Your pastor and his wife chose each other most likely loved each other. These children have no say so. When the "prophet" tells your family your 13 year old is to be married to this 90 year old it will happen or they will suffer eternal damnation and ex-communication. Young girls and women are chatel, traded, bartered, beaten, raped. This is not an issue about polygamy as only one marriage is performed with a license. This is about human sufferage, mind control, involuntary submission, sexual abuse. An absolute abomination.

  • Eric
    April 23, 2008 8:48 p.m.

    This whole thing is a disaster. It is a dreadful tragedy and a travesty of the justice system that someone can make some false prank calls and set off a military style raid on a religious group where hundreds of young children are arrested and taken away from their parents. Because ONE female who falsely claimed she was 16 (actually 33 yrs old and not among the FLDS) and falsely claimed to being physically and sexually abused, we can just assume that every child within 5 miles of her is also being abused. Hey, this makes about as much sense. Lets go raid the country of India and imprison everyone who was married in an "arranged marriage" because we don't approve of the age and the manner in which the male and the female were joined together in marriage. If we are a country that has lowered to that level of lunacy, let's arrest presidential candidate Barack Obama and put him in foster care because he was the son of a polygamist Barack Hussein Obama Sr and abandoned by his mother.

  • To Where but Utah
    April 23, 2008 8:39 p.m.

    A short list of polygamists arrested by the State of Utah (most convicted of a crime):

    Tom Green, Rodney Ortell Kingston, Jeremy Kingston, Terrill C. Johnson, Rodney Holm, Allen Glade Steed...and the big one: Warren Jeffs.

    Some additional Arizona convictions: Orson William Black, Kelly Fischer, Donald Barlow, Dale Barlow. Arizona also held six FLDS men for about six months due to contempt of court charges in regards to the Jeffs investigation.

    I'm sick of hearing that Utah and Arizona have done nothing about this. Why do you think the FLDS leadership started building compounds in Texas, Colorado and South Dakota. Utah and Arizona have been ratcheting up the heat.

    Now when Texas has convicted half as many as are on this list, then you can talk. Oh yea, I forgot, Texas seems to prefer punishing the children.

  • Polygamy is a CRIME
    April 23, 2008 8:35 p.m.

    re: 'to give them time.'
    OBVIOUSLY there is evidence that a crime has occured or Texas wouldn't have raided the compound. These enforcement officers have no doubt consulted many legal scholars on the matter and are DOING THE RIGHT THING. One doesn't have to wait for conviction prior to action; one need only probable cause, and a 15 year old with 3 kids is p.c.
    Hate to break it to you but POLYGAMY IS A CRIME. It is tantamount to child abuse, and is sick. These children are uneducated, afraid of the 21st century, and so inbred that diseases are rampant. There is evidence that the youngest 'wife' was EIGHT when married or promised. These children should be removed permanently and given a chance at normal life, the parents imprisoned (which they no doubt will be), their 'temple' sold for scrap to pay back taxpayer fraud and this entire cult to go the way of the dinosaur.
    Just because some self-proclaimed prophet tells you something doesn't make it so. Or legal. Besides, Jeffs has since said publicly that he IS NOT a prophet NOR EVER HAS BEEN. So much for that-

  • to give them time
    April 23, 2008 8:05 p.m.

    They will have a very difficult time proving that a case of statutory rape was committed in Texas. If there are pregnant underage girls (I haven't seen anyone who is pregnant, let alone underage and pregnant)they will not only have to prove who the father of the baby is, but also where and when the conception took place.

    They are punishing these people without any evidence that a crime has been committed, using the unproven statements of the CPS. Taking children little children from their parents is not protecting the children, it is simply punishing the parents.

  • dingo
    April 23, 2008 7:52 p.m.

    you all dont understand it is the women who are the face of the FLDS. it has always been that way. the FLDS men will throw thier women under the bus to save thier skins. crying sheep get more attention than snorting rams. the louder the women cry the more people will fall prey to the sect/cult propiganda machine.

    you will always see the same 3 or 4 women representing the entire community as they are the only "chosen" ones who will follow the males orders period. they will tow the line no matter what. they are there also to remind the others of the pecking order and that order is iron clad.

    how much different would things have been if the adults had gotten together with CPS and been honest with them? how much different would things have been if the adults had complied with the judge? my guess is very different.

  • Question answered
    April 23, 2008 7:42 p.m.

    To "Just asking"--The children in your family are
    double cousins. That is an acceptable relationship
    in any society. Google incest.
    Did you see Dr. Phil today? Alot of questions were
    answered that have been on everyone's mind.
    FYI: It takes an average of four generations to change dysfunctional behavior patterns so the dynamics in this situation are overwhelming unless
    individuals want to seriously change their ways.
    My question is, "Do these children have to wait
    another four to six generations for destructive
    behavior patterns to change?"

  • give them time; . . .
    April 23, 2008 7:31 p.m.

    . . . Ironic Mike
    Texas is putting together a case. Bet your last dollar a lot of FLDS predators are going to spend some time in a Texas prison.

  • Ummm.....
    April 23, 2008 7:22 p.m.

    There has been a lot of criticism and not much thought. CPS "believes" there is a pregnant 15 year old. CPS "believes" there is abuse. CPS has brought forth no actual proof of either claim and not only that continues to change their "beliefs". Did Merrill Jessop say he was the leader of the place...or is that just someones opinion? Angie Voss said she was scared of the FLDS men so she brought in an army of men to protect "her" and drag away all the children. The state's physicatrist got all his info from the media and says that the culture is bad. The welfare fraud, has there been actual proof. Carolyn Jessop (and other critics) What if they are lying and exaggerating their own experinces - ever thought of that? Noooo it must be true...I read it in the paper!

  • Insight
    April 23, 2008 6:51 p.m.

    To Cameron Berry.

    Welcome to the world of the Juvenal Justice System that exists in every state in the Union. Namely, there is not due process, open process, justice, equity and most importantly, constitutional rights! That right! The Juvenal Justice Systems and their CPS storm troopers are not even beholden or bound by law as we know it, but act upon a totally different sent of rules and standards, THAT HAVE BEEN UPHELD BY BOTH STATE AND FEDERAL COURTS!

    Pretty rude wake up isn't it?

    When CPS enters the picture, all parental rights go right down the toilet, and it gets worse... the kids get shuffled around and are too often lost in the system... as was painfully evidenced by the Florida CPS fiasco a few years back.

    I'm telling your folks, this one's going to backfire in a big way for law enforcement, CPS, and yes, the juvenal justice system of Texas.

    Should kids be protected? Absolutely! But in helter skelter Gestapo fashion typical of CPS? Absolutely No!

    Abuse of children is wrong, but lets not justify Fascism to creep upon us in the name of protecting the children... or we'll be wondering if the State is the parents.

  • Praise the Lord!
    April 23, 2008 6:51 p.m.

    Finally some heart out of this judge! I am sad to see over 12 months old separated and still under 2 years of age but at least this was something with heart!! Thank you for the babies sake!!!!

  • To Ironic Mike
    April 23, 2008 6:40 p.m.

    They are not arresting polygamous men because they would have to have some proof of law breaking. They don't have it. They are not likely to get it either. That is why they took the children - to cruelly punish the adults at YFZ without any proof of lawbreaking. The trouble is that the biggest losers are the children who are to be ruined and that is what is most upsetting to the parents.

  • Achtung!
    April 23, 2008 6:32 p.m.

    Polygemy is illegal and has been for a very long time. The lifestyle is strange to everyone outside their world. There are verifiable accounts of underage children getting married. Should the law be followed? Absolutely. Was this the right way of suddenly enforcing the law? Police in full body securing a church ground in force fully armed? Where's the due process? A blanket edict to root out most of the kids and ship them off to state foster care? Are you kidding me? There is no way you can convince me that the officials who gave the Texas Rangers the orders to do this did the right thing. No way. This smacks of something very unAmerican. Due process. I don't like this one bit. State foster care. That's an improvement over their current bizarre lifestyle? A blanket edict rounding up citizens who have Constitutional rights. Ya mein heir! Seig heil!

  • Leroy G.
    April 23, 2008 6:31 p.m.

    I don't think the fathers have skipped town. Most of them are still at the Ranch. The ones that live there anyway.
    What happened to the plan for the DNA checking units to do the women and children at the Colliseum and then drive to the Ranch to do the men and women there??? Sounded like a good plan to me. People from out of town could have simply gone to the Ranch and waited with the others to give their DNA. Now I guess they will just come in when they get ready. Or get fined or sent to jail!?

  • FLDS men . . .
    April 23, 2008 6:31 p.m.

    . . . shopped "age of consent" laws when setting out for Texas. They probably didn't think to research prison systems. Texas wouldn't be my first choice of a place to go to prison.
    If child molesters have it rough in prison I wonder how FLDS big daddies will fare.

  • Where but Utah
    April 23, 2008 6:22 p.m.

    Do tens of thousands live polygamy openly?

    Do polygamist openly organize and negotiate with the state AG?

    You may have noticed "Big Love" wasn't set in Texas.

    I hope Utah is twice as clever.

    I hope Utah doesn't export any more YFZ's.

  • Leroy G.
    April 23, 2008 6:15 p.m.

    What happened to adultery? In Utah and most likely Texas, Adultery is still a crime punishable by up to 6 months in Jail. There simply are not enough jails even if we kicked all the present prisoners out.
    Nobody is going to jail for Polygamy either. People who try to marry formally, they go to jail but Polygamists do not.
    It is quite true that in former times young women of 13,14.15 were often married and married to young boys of 14 and up. But it was different times and the young girl went to live with the young boys family and became their daughter. Where do you think daughter in law came from?? Sometimes the boy went to live with the girls family and became their son. Yes they married young but they did not usually set up housekeeping on their own until they were older. They were child brides and no one thought there was anything wrong with it . But that was then and this is now!!! FLDS needs to stop the practice of marrying young girls. Polygamy should be decriminalized like Carolyn Jessop says. She's right!

  • Ironic Mike
    April 23, 2008 6:14 p.m.

    to "Au Contrarian"

    So if your last statement is true, then why aren't they arresting the polygamist men for their crimes? They seem to have no problem "arresting" 500 innocent children and shuttling them off to foster care, but why aren't they making the men suffer? Remove the men from the ranch, not the children. They've done more harm than good here.

  • Re: Au Contrarian
    April 23, 2008 6:09 p.m.

    Utah is twice as clever. Have you heard of the new Child Bigamy law? Why do you think the fanatical FDLS leadership wanted to escape to Texas?

  • To Au Contratian
    April 23, 2008 6:05 p.m.

    You say: "It is true that we live in a depraved sex drenched debased culture; however; what these young girls have been subjected to is as bad as anything the outside culture could throw at them."

    and not only that, but it carefully planned, pre-meditated AND systematically implemented on the part of the FLDS.

  • Au Contrarian
    April 23, 2008 6:00 p.m.

    I applaud the Texas BECAUSE the laws setting age of consent and the definition of incest were changed recently to specifically target the FLDS.

    If only Utah were half as clever.

    It is true that we live in a depraved sex drenched debased culture; however; what these young girls have been subjected to is as bad as anything the outside culture could throw at them.

  • Hey Sugar Momma
    April 23, 2008 5:56 p.m.

    Today, Judge Walther ruled that the children will remain in home schooling. There were several arguments for this, one of which is that many of these kids are likely ahead of their age group grade level. This argument was made by the court appointed ad litems after meeting with the children.

    Please stop guessing and at least wait to see what is actually shown to be fact.

  • To Sugar Momma
    April 23, 2008 5:47 p.m.

    It was stated in the orientation sheet given to foster care families that these children are academically advanced and superior to mainstream children of the same age. That is to be expected since they have been home-schooled and haven't had the intrustion of television and video games.

  • Contrarian
    April 23, 2008 5:43 p.m.

    How many of you who applaud the Texas CPS know that the laws setting age of consent and the definition of incest were changed recently to specifically target the FLDS?

    Polygamy laws refer to legal marriage, and I would be surprised if the FLDS have any members who are legally married to more than one woman. The country abounds with married men who impregnate teenage girls and either abandon them or arrange for an abortion and no one bats an eye. No one takes the children of mothers whose daughter has become pregnant in such circumstances. No one requires DNA tests to determine who the father is so he can be charged with rape.

    Now we are watching as children, whose innocence has been protected from a society steeped in sex, are taken from that protected environment to swim in a sea of debauchery.

  • Sugar Momma
    April 23, 2008 5:27 p.m.

    So they're going to assess the educational levels of the children?

    That'll open up a whole new can of worms for YFZ, when they find out that they're all years behind where they should be academically. One more crime to YFZ's list is not educating its children.

    If they did educational assessments of the adults, I think the results would make me sick to my stomach.

    It makes me crazy that they've turned their women into sheep. That sect is like the Taliban, man. Just a bunch of mindless drones.

    My grandma was from a polygamist family, but she had choices and freedom. She grew up in Salt Lake. She left that lifestyle with no resistance. Totally different experience.

  • Ironic Mike
    April 23, 2008 5:04 p.m.

    Is it ironic to anyone else that it's the women and children being punished here when it's mainly the men who are guilty? I know that the polygamist men are not the only guilty party, but why aren't they being punished? Why didn't the FBI go in and arrest the men? Instead, the went in and "arrested" the children and now they're being shipped away. Why isn't that issue being addressed?

    Why couldn't the FBI have raided the ranch, arrested the men, taken permanent control of the ranch, but allowed the women and children to stay in their homes? While I don't agree at all with the plural wives doctrine, this is bad for Texas. Very bad. This could have been managed much better. Go after the men first and prosecute.

  • Mink
    April 23, 2008 5:01 p.m.

    Does anyone actually think today's courts would uphold the anti-polygamy laws, if challenged? They would uphold Utah's child bigamy law, but stopping unofficial polygamous relationships between consenting adults? They won't allow criminal prosecution for adultery, something that almost every state had laws forbidding until modern times.

    Under the equal protection clause, consenting adult polygamists could argue they are being singled out, while other alduterers are not prosecuted, particularly under the current approach used by the FLDS to only legally marry one wife. Prosecuting the FLDS for polygamy is a real can of worms.

    That's what makes Utah's child bigamy law such a bold stroke. It allows a direct way to force those who choose polygamy to keep it among consenting adults. Why do you think the fanatical leadership moved to Texas?

  • To Just Asking
    April 23, 2008 4:21 p.m.

    Only if twins marry twins would the DNA be the same.

    If brothers (as you said) such as Bob and Bill married Mary and Martha (who were not twins-either set) their DNA would not be the same.

    But if Jimmy and Jason(twin brothers) married Kimmy and Karen (twin sisters) their DNA would be the same.

    Conclusion: Jimmy and Jason have identical DNA if they are identical twins. Same as Kimmy and Karen.

    Final Conclusion: If Jimmy and Jason are Fraternal Twins as much as Kimmy and Karen are, their DNA would not match any more than siblings marrying siblings. LEGALLY!

    Hope this helps.

  • Dumb Cajun
    April 23, 2008 4:16 p.m.

    If these men have run off to Canada the Mounties will get'm, if they have gone to Mexico, the drug dealers will get'm. I would guess that they are hiding out in the hills in Utah and Nevada; at least they won't be able to claim their ill-gotten money unless they surface to face the music.

  • To avengeance
    April 23, 2008 4:03 p.m.

    It is interesting to see you suggest that the FLDS are so "self-sufficient". I guess with every spiritually married mother on welfare they can afford to be self sufficient. I think when the dust settles the FLDS will not get the last laugh as you suggest. I personally don't think this situation is a laughing matter. Most sad for the kids but I believe it is for the right reasons. The cycle must be broken. I'm sorry, but the crying mothers - they are part of the problem.

  • Re: Red
    April 23, 2008 4:00 p.m.

    Sorry little 3 year old, we think your mommy and daddy want to force you into an arranged marriage with an old man as soon as you're old enough to bare children. The state of Texas does not approve of this, so we're going to take you to a safe place until we're sure that your mommy and daddy aren't planning to abuse you as soon as they think you're old enough to be abused.

  • G
    April 23, 2008 4:00 p.m.

    "I do agree with you that as a nation our rights seem to be withering away, however in this case the Texas authorities found examples of child abuse and their oath to the state of Texas mandates that they take action."

    That is incorrect. Texas CPS *claims* to have found evidence of child abuse. Until the State of Texas brings this evidence into the light of day, it's just another assertion.

    I should add that CPS has already given the public ample reason for skepticism. First there was the hoaxed call they claimed as evidence, then there was the bed in the temple that was supposed to evidence. CPS locked up 20-30 adults because they incorrectly guessed their ages, and spent more than a week trying to get an actual count of many people they took from the ranch.

    Even if CPS isn't biased against this group, they have at least given us cause to question their competence. I will reserve judgment against these parents until this comes out in a real trial, then we'll see if Ms. Voss becomes the next Mike Nifong.

  • Red
    April 23, 2008 3:42 p.m.

    Re: PROOF: "Sorry little 13 year old girl. We suspect that this old man is abusing you, but until we get him in a court of law and PROVE that you were forced to marry him and that he's sexually abusing you, you'll just have to continue being abused for a while."

    The problem is that hundreds of the detainees aren't anywhere near 13.

    "Sorry little 3 year old, your mommy has opinions the State does not approve. You'll just have to go with this automatic rifle-toting, ninja-clad stranger. You may never see your mommy again."

  • LSF
    April 23, 2008 3:42 p.m.

    I suspect that any of the men who "spriitually married" underaged girls who are pregnant or already have babies are long gone from Texas. If Texas authorities want their DNA samples they should look for these guys in Canada or Mexico.

  • Country Founded 1st ammendment
    April 23, 2008 3:39 p.m.

    This country was founded upon religious freedom. Has anyone even read the 1st ammendment? "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

    To me, it's unconstitutional to make a law prohibiting polygamy. These parents love their kids, and husbands love their wives. They hold tight to their beliefs. In all the law classes I have taken, they always decide based on what's in the best interest of the children. How is pulling them from a loving, kind environment in the best interest of the children. This group should have gone to Mexico or Canada. The US does not allow freedom of religion, only freedom from religion.

  • still haven't seen any evidence
    April 23, 2008 3:34 p.m.

    Obviously you don't consider child rape as child abuse.

  • Red
    April 23, 2008 3:33 p.m.

    Proud Texan: "Texas state law doesn't permit children being raped."

    Technically true, but Texas CPS' lax oversight facilitates a lot of child rapes and other child abuse.

    According to hope4kidz dot org, in budget year 2004, 63 Texas foster children received medical treatment for rape that occurred while in the foster care system, 142 children and teens gave birth while in the system, and about 100 received treatment for poisoning caused by medications they were given while in care. In 2006, Texas State Comptroller Carole Stayhorn said, "The state is supposed to be protecting our forgotten children, but in all too many cases these children are taken from one abusive situation and placed in another abusive situation."

  • Spell-checker
    April 23, 2008 3:26 p.m.

    I hope Texas keeps the kids long enough for them to get some real schooling and learn to spell better than their FLDS friends here on this board. If this is the best FLDS homeschooling can do, those kids will need plenty of remedial work this summer.

  • laws?
    April 23, 2008 3:09 p.m.

    What happens when the government breaks the law?
    What should happen?
    What is Texas withdrawl plan when these people are found innocent?
    What happened to the law against adultery?

  • Just wondering
    April 23, 2008 3:06 p.m.

    I'm just wondering if some of the bad press has forced this judge to be a tad more compassionate? doubt it, but at least she'll let some mom's stay with their kids. But what about those 5 and under? They need their moms too. but compassion only goes so far.

  • Anonymous
    April 23, 2008 3:06 p.m.

    I still haven't seen any evidence that would support a suspicion that the children were being abused. The phone call was bogus -- that much is clear. What is the state basing its assertion on that these children might be being abused?

  • RE: to unknown
    April 23, 2008 3:05 p.m.

    Freedom of Religion has to be monitored by our Government or else human sacrifice would still be practiced out in the open today. The Governments job is to allow religions to practice freely within what society interprets as reasonable boundaries. I do agree with you that as a nation our rights seem to be withering away, however in this case the Texas authorities found examples of child abuse and their oath to the state of Texas mandates that they take action. It is difficult for the FLDS to argue their case in my eyes when they willingly and knowing broke the law ie: (Polygamy, welfare fraud, child abuse, indangering a child etc.)

  • Re: Giving the Children Back
    April 23, 2008 2:52 p.m.

    "Why not get some solid evidence first instead of the "probable abuse" stuff."

    Try to follow along:

    1. Warren Jeffs, the FLDS leader, was convicted of two counts of being an accomplice to rape for coercing a 14-year-old girl into marriage to her 19-year-old cousin. He is currently facing a trial in Arizona on 2 similar charges.

    2. Calls from a possible victim claiming similar abuse occuring at the YFZ Ranch.

    3. Young apparently underage and pregnant girls discovered at the ranch.

    4. Uncooperative adults who refuse to give proper names of children and to identify which children belong to which parents. (Making it impossible for Texas officials to identify children living in the households where potential abuse victims lived.)

    Unless you're completely in denial, there's ample evidence of possible abuse.

    From your example, it appears that you're in favor of very young marriages. Was your 16 year old forced to marry the 25 year old? How young would you consider too young to get married?

  • unknown
    April 23, 2008 2:48 p.m.

    For all you people who whine and say Polygamy is illegal . The Government broke the law when they made it so, for the constitution says the government shall make no laws against religion ect. Most of the people will say that polygamy is not a religion but a cult, but that is how the Romans thought of the christians. The Government is able to slowly errode our rights away because the people say in this case it is okay and that case it is okay what they want to do after a time of that we are going to be wondering where our rights went.

  • *sigh*
    April 23, 2008 2:32 p.m.

    well..no shortage of opinionated or uninformed people here. Last time I checked the law, CPS is required to investigate claims of abuse...i hadit happen to me (crazy ex-wife) CPS came...they saw, they left. Real questions are (to me) things like...how can you claim no abuse at all when you see pictures of Warren Jeffs on all the walls in the coumpound? He isn't in jail for shoplifting.And I agree with the post about (hypothetical) people growing pot...it's illegal and we wouldnt tolerate it. So why do we ignore polygamy in UT... Why is our legal age to marry 14? Why are these people ignoring a court order to provide DNA? Why cant they tell a straight story? It sure quacks like a duck to me.

  • warren
    April 23, 2008 2:28 p.m.

    search 'polygamy' on youtube....very interesting

  • get your definitions right
    April 23, 2008 2:04 p.m.

    pedophile == prepubescent

    No allegation exists of this crime. It is only in the sick minds of those that think a couch in a temple is a cult consumation bed, or that safety information on rat poison is proof of a suicide cult.

  • re:re:give the children back
    April 23, 2008 2:04 p.m.

    Statistically the child rape is more likely to happen in the foster homes than in their own community. Texas foster care parents do not have a good track record but are still allowed to take children in.
    Why not get some solid evidence first instead of the "probable abuse" stuff. The FLDS are painted guilty without proof so far. I too have a friend who married when she was barley 16, which is allowed in Utah. Her husband was about 25. If you are taught to marry early and know the joy children bring, this is something to rejoice about.
    Did look at the website mentioned in the first post, looks like happy and healthy children. Won't be the same after CPS got a hold of them.

  • Jon B. Holbrook
    April 23, 2008 1:59 p.m.

    There are parallels between the raid on Short Creek in 1953 and the raid on the YFZ Ranch in Eldorado, Texas in April, 2008. The raid on Short Creek was motivated by some ambitious politicians. The current raid on the YFZ Ranch was also, to some degree, motivated by political ambition. The fallout from the 1953 raid backfired on the State of Arizona and destroyed the political careers of Gov. John Howard Pyle and Senator Barry Goldwater. Governor Richard Perry could very easily suffer the same fate, especially if the State of Texas has not been totally honest about the purpose of the raid and the circumstances surrounding it. Thank-You

  • Outstanding
    April 23, 2008 1:48 p.m.

    The display of sheer ignorance of the Law. And the History of this country, ...and the unflipping believable stupidity of the T. V. tranced.[turn it off READ] ... Unclean Hands, when did the STATE OF TEXAS find a pair of those lie-ing around ? PUH LEASE ! Wayne Martin {Mt. Carmel 28 Feb. 1993} called 911...listen to all 48 hours and ask yourself WHO is acting in Good Faith ? This "country" declared Bankruptcy March 9, 1933....To Whom ? Stupid don't change true. The King is coming. Judge Yourselves. How utterly repulsive to the descendants of the Men Who died at the Alamo. PUKE! YOU BUREAUCRATIC SWINE ! PIT VIPERS !

  • Proud Texan
    April 23, 2008 1:32 p.m.

    The judge is not evil, she is doing her job. Texas state law doesn't permit children being raped; we're funny that way. If the parents had cooperated, some of them may have been able to keep their children. But, because they lied about which children belonged to which adults, their names, etc., all children had to be removed and protected.

    My hope is that the women will leave this horrible pedofile haven, start a new life in the outside world, and cooperate with CPS to get their children back.

  • Andy
    April 23, 2008 1:33 p.m.

    Why are some of you making your opinions on what you see on TV? That is the last place to get reliable info to make a reasonable judgement on a situation.
    And to those who are saying that there is a violation of rights from the 5th Amendment. I really dont think you know what you are talking about. The 5th Amendment states that one doesn't have to
    "witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law." WITHOUT DUE PROCESS OF LAW! How can they determine the age and peternity of each child if they wont testify truthfully? Getting DNA is NOT against the 5th Amendment! It is a part of due process to determine if the law has been broken. Make sure that you read your rights before you assume to think you know your rights.

  • more laws being broken
    April 23, 2008 1:32 p.m.

    Having your uncle for your daddy is ALSO against the law.

  • It should be law 18 to marry
    April 23, 2008 1:28 p.m.

    No one under the age of 18 should be able to marry without both parents consent and have judge sign off on why they need to marry at a young age.

    100 years ago the marrying age was different. Marrying at 14 in not needed and should not be allowed for any reason!

    Let the little girls grow up first. When they are 18 and if they choose to marry a man with more than one wife that would be another story. Forcing 14 year old girls to marry is not religous freedom it is slavery. Slavery and polygamy were outlawed a very long time ago.

  • You want your proof ?
    April 23, 2008 1:22 p.m.

    You FLDS defenders amaze me. Do some research on this cult. It isn't hard. Boo hoo to these women who cry on national TV. Funny how you see the same group of women "representing" this cult. I'm happy for these kids for finally getting out of that vicious cycle of abuse.

    Brent Jeffs is a name you can Google There's many others who have told their story online. www.childbrides.org is a great site with many stories.

    How can you defend a group of people who STILL worship Warren Jeffs?

  • tx res
    April 23, 2008 1:17 p.m.

    the reason it was not bad when your mom long ago did this or your dad married a younger woman (my mom was 15 when she married my dad but did not have children till 23) was that someone was not telling them they have to do this to get into heaven this is what even reenforces the sickness of it all

  • Janie
    April 23, 2008 1:06 p.m.

    I winder if any of the children will be put in LDS homes or if that would even be allowed?

  • good site?
    April 23, 2008 12:55 p.m.

    I noticed there is no contact link....

    POLYGAMY is AGAINST the LAW....period...

    if there were 10,000 growing weed out there in Colorado city..the army would be there the next day

  • re Mensem
    April 23, 2008 12:55 p.m.

    Exactly, my grandma was being courted by my now deceased grandpa when she was 14 years old and when he was 18. They didn't marry until she graduated from High School, during those 3-4 years he worked, got land, built a house etc. They aren't odd people, they are very normal mainstream Latter Day Saints. It was a bit of a shock then some laughs about robbing the cradle when it came up in conversation. But she was never taken away from her mother and father for having an older boyfriend.

    The DNA tests are a violation of the 5th amendment. This judge is evil, yes evil. And every single authority that took place without voicing concern and disapproval also can bear that tag of evil.

    How is it that before the FLDS moved it, it was deemed ok by Texas law for 14 year olds to wed, but as soon as they arrived it was changed to 16?

  • Re: PROOF
    April 23, 2008 12:51 p.m.

    evidence, charges, trial, verdict (PROOF), sentence

    Some trials can take months, if not years, to be completed, after the initial report of an alleged crime.

    Are you suggesting that CPS should just leave children in a potentially abusive situation until actual proof (that is, a court verdict) is decided?

    Sorry little 13 year old girl. We suspect that this old man is abusing you, but until we get him in a court of law and PROVE that you were forced to marry him and that he's sexually abusing you, you'll just have to continue being abused for a while.

  • 20/20 on ABC
    April 23, 2008 12:51 p.m.

    John Quinones on 20/20 Did a story with Brent Jeffs who was sexually abused,as a young boy,by his Uncle Warren Jeffs and Warrens Brothers. He tells of many more that were abused and how the women and children are being abused in the compound. Do an internet search for Brent Jeffs. He's Been There. Read his story and see how many still say Texas is Wrong.

  • To Cameron Berry
    April 23, 2008 12:39 p.m.

    This case is UNDER INVESTIGATION. There doesn't have to be any PROOF while it is being investigated. In the meantime, children must be protected from possible further abuse.

    Why is this so hard to grasp?

  • Re: good site
    April 23, 2008 12:39 p.m.

    FLDS propaganda so they can get their kids back and continue abusing them.

  • Poligs need to trade with China.
    April 23, 2008 12:37 p.m.

    In China, they have a 1.5 child limit, that was the last I heard, they also think that male children are more honorable, so they do not want female children. So since the Polygamist's throw the boys out and the Chinese don't want the girls, maybe they need to do a trade. Actually, I don't believe that, both cases are disgusting, and so unfair to children, where are the boys?

    Oh and Cameron, did you not read the instructions to not type in caps? We all like our opinions and want them to get noticed, but we need to get over ourselves and do things the way we are asked to, just as the people in Texas are following the laws, what we hear and what they know are very different.

  • to avengeance
    April 23, 2008 12:32 p.m.

    These people are a burden on our economy, because these women are "spiritually" married, they are able to get welfare and food stamps. The church owns all the property and all income from the members go into the church, so they do not pay taxes and are able to outbid people on jobs, cause of their non-tax status. These kids have been provided for by we people who they are told are evil, but now our taxes to give them a free ride.

  • Anonymous
    April 23, 2008 12:26 p.m.

    Why? Because the FLDS culture is full of abuse, both physical and emotional. Check out Carolyn Jessop's book "Escape" before condemning the Texas authorities.

  • Cameron Berry
    April 23, 2008 12:24 p.m.


  • Trial?
    April 23, 2008 12:10 p.m.

    Why? This is TEXAS, after all. End of the bible belt and justice is fluid.

  • Re: Give the children back to
    April 23, 2008 12:07 p.m.

    A trial will take 6 months to a year. How many more acts of child rape will happen during that time? I would venture to say hundreds.

  • avengeance
    April 23, 2008 12:03 p.m.

    As soon as the children are swept under the rug, this story will lose all its juicy excitement, and the masses will go back to which politician to keep from getting elected, or which professional sports team to root for.

    In a few years, when the economy has fallen apart, people like these "fundamentalists" will be one ones getting the last laugh, since they, and people like them, are the ones most self-sufficient. Maybe when the government can no longer afford to keep these children imprisoned, they'll be forced to give them back.

  • Give the children to the parents
    April 23, 2008 11:49 a.m.

    Give the children back it is a crime to take these children from their parents
    without a fair trail

  • re:Mensem
    April 23, 2008 11:42 a.m.

    I will take you at your word that those people were married at those ages because many years ago that did happen in this country. We also had slaves in this country at one time but that does not make it right. The difference is your pastor was a one man and one woman marriage and I am sure his wife was not forced to marry him by a "Superior"

  • Just asking??
    April 23, 2008 11:41 a.m.

    I have a question, my brothers married my husbands sisters, (we are very close) Come on, we live in California, we are not weird. Would the DNA of our children be the same? We always thought it was good that our kids would have many kidney doners if needed. If the "compound people" had the same situation, would that further confuse the issue?

  • April
    April 23, 2008 11:38 a.m.

    I wonder what the reation of those parents who are claiming the girls versus claiming boys since the FLDS is notorious for casting out male children in order to reduce the competion for the elder males.

    This may end up being a benefit to them.....a legal was of gender cleansing.

  • Mensem
    April 23, 2008 11:33 a.m.

    I am no friend of this religious sect, but people who are religious need to look at the greater implications of this issue. In America it wasn't long ago that young women were married. My Pastor (Baptist) married his wife when she was 15 and his wife's mother was married when she was 13! I don't agree with marrying young, but at what point does you disagreeing with someone give you the right to exercise the power of the government to seize their children? 1)Taking these children from their parents is unnatural. 2) I still haven't heard that they found the person who originally called with the complaint against her husband 3) These FLDS kids all look fairly healthy to me 4) One man with several wives (while I don't agree with it) isn't any worse than the 25 year old single mother with 4 children from 3 different men on welfare. If there is a domestic dispute with a woman and her husband- ok, send in a police unit to investigate. Otherwise, leave these people alone.

  • Where is Merrill
    April 23, 2008 11:27 a.m.

    Merrill Jessop is the Leader of the YFZ Ranch and you would think he would be the spokesman but he is MIA. Isn't it normal for the head of any organization to be the spokesman if they are accused of any wrong doing. He is supposed to be the one with all of the answers to accusations. But Merrill Chooses to send out the women to do all of the talking. Does this seem strange?

  • HD
    April 23, 2008 11:22 a.m.

    With the given situation, DNA testing is the only real way to determine family relationships at this point. This could have been cleared up simply by the adults from the FLDS coming forward and giving accurate names and family relationships. At this point the adults are the ones creating this problem. There is no longer any doubt as to whether or not polygamy laws have been broken. It is now a question of whether or not the state and government are going to take appropriate actions to correct this. For those found breaking the law, they should go to jail. While I respect the individual rights of any group to workship as they decide, breaking the law does not fall under individual rights. There are too many reports of abuse and problems associated with this way of life from those that have lived through it. While the present situation is difficult on the children, they will soon have a better understanding of what is beyond the barbwire of their world.

  • masked_data
    April 23, 2008 11:16 a.m.

    Looks like only the legal daddies are showing up to claim their kids. Where's Merril?

  • good site
    April 23, 2008 11:15 a.m.

    I wonder if they find more than they are looking for with DNA samples. Underage girls with children not from older man but a secret boyfriend?
    check out the site captive flds children dot org. It is disturbing, looks like Iraq not Texas.