Texas harming FLDS children, Utah group says

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  • Hattie
    May 5, 2008 6:21 p.m.

    Yes indeed this is traumatic! I too was taken from my mother by CPS (but that was long, long ago). The FLDS children need to be removed because their mothers are not in a position to protect them. The mothers are abused (and may not realize it... just as my own mother) and unless the mother asks for help and wants out of the FLDS culture, she should not be given custody of her children just to teach them (expecially the girls) to accept this riduculous alliegence to the men who need at least three wives to het into "heaven." I need three icecream cones to get to "heaven"...lol

  • Dawn
    April 29, 2008 3:30 p.m.

    Lets look at it another way. A 14 yr old child has the choice of being forced to have sex with a man 20 yrs older than her, or of being forced to cope with a new way of living? I am a parent, life has its stress and tradgedies everywhere. Children are resiliant if enough love, support, and coping skills are given to them. I would rather help a child cope with a new lifestyle instead of rape. Isn't having children at age 14 abuse also?
    There is no way these kids could have won, no matter what the state did or didn't do. The important thing now is what is being done to help them cope! Whats done is done, now clean up the mess that both the state and the sect have created! Had these 14 yr old girls gotten pregnant outside of the sect, what would their lives have brought? These are still children, and they still need hope, love, and as much help as anyone can offer them.

  • Jude
    April 28, 2008 11:20 p.m.

    No real Texan would have separated mothers and children like that. Let those mothers know that through the grace of God, with each one of us praying, and acting through spiritual guidance, their children will be safely returned. Here in Beaumont, Texas I am raising money to send to the legal defense fund for the FLDS families.
    About ten years ago my family was similarly attacked by CPS. You're not fighting against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against wickedness in high places. The power of prayer defeats them. I thank God for the safe return of my children and pray for the safe return of yours.

  • Mrs. Smith
    April 28, 2008 1:34 a.m.

    BEWARE the catch phrase:

    "In the best interests of the child."

    That's the phrase they'll use when they want to condone an act that is tantamount to murdering YOUR family.

  • Mrs. Smith
    April 28, 2008 1:32 a.m.

    This is the most revolting abuse of children, babies, families, and civil rights I have ever witnessed.

    "Judge" Walther has no heart. She is stone cold. She'll face her Nuremberg, though, and she WASN'T just doing her job. She was being, and is being, s soul-less, unbelievably callous woman. No one with a half a heart could treat these poor families and babies and children like this.

    THERE WAS NO ABUSE FOUND! IT WAS A PHONEY ALLEGATION OF ABUSE!!! TEXAS, AND ALL THE GOOD PEOPLE OF AMERICA - DO SOMETHING TO HELP THESE PEOPLE - write to your politicians, tell your friends and neighbours you will not tolerate this abomination of humanity!


  • MJ
    April 25, 2008 12:29 a.m.

    Yeah, taking children out of an environment of systematic sexual abuse could really damage them.


  • Diana
    April 24, 2008 1:43 a.m.

    I read tonight that they released two of the girls that they THOUGHT were teens to go back to the ranch because CPS finally concluded that they weren't minors after all. This supports what the FLDS people were saying in interviews, that despite drivers licenses, SS cards and birth certificates, CPS would not accept that women who looked young were in fact in their twenties. It will be interesting to learn the extent of any actual abuse compared to the scope of what was done to these folks.

  • Sj Bobkins
    April 24, 2008 1:21 a.m.

    OH Molly, the hypocrisy!
    You condone kids being ripped permanently from their dads to be "GIVEN" to another man, on "pofit" Warren's order, yet whine about Texas trying to get to the bottom of this child sexual abuse mess. Truly Amazing, how a human brain can rationalize.

  • the actual court case
    April 23, 2008 11:59 p.m.

    If I was on a jury, and had no preconcieved notions, there is no way I would place any of those kids in foster care. The whole court case focussed soley on whether the parents believed underage marriage wrong or not, and that flds people were incapable of making decisions because of what they had been taught their whole lives. Not once was coercion by threat or foce even mentioned! Not once was a specific case of underage marriage presented. Those things would have only proved individual cases of abuse. The only way to treat all 400+ kids that they apparently can't even count, as one single case, was to declare the beliefs "abusive". The judge, with a straight face, declared all 400+ children in "immenent danger" for abuse because of the parents beliefs (not actions - they did not discuss actions at all!), and because of what the kids were taught (not how - the only testinony on how was that the mother never yelled at her kids) concluding WHAT one teaches therir kids makes those kids incapable of decision making, and what one believes makes those kids in "immenent danger" of being abused.

  • Kelli in Texas
    April 23, 2008 9:25 p.m.

    I read this article and some of these comments and it frustrates me that people do not get what is really going on here. These are kids. Would we leave kids in a "Crack-drug" house just because that was what they had lived in their whole life? No, we are supposed to protect children and their innocence. Instead of giving your "opinion" on what you think CPS and Texas are doing wrong, help be a solution. If you are a professional in helping children that come out of these cults, offer your services. Help us help these kids and these mothers. Let me assure you, we have not ever had to deal with anything like this in San Angelo. I pray that all these kids recover and heal from the trauma that has surrounded them for all their lives and for what they are going through right now. I'm sure this comment will frustrate some people and that's okay. Because if it frustrates you, you will think about it more and maybe if we all work together for the sake of these kids, we might can make a change. Thank you for listening.

  • to little minded anonymous
    April 23, 2008 1:13 a.m.

    Where to start? The risk of getting shunned? I want to know where you live so I can join you because everywhere that I have been in this WORLD, being shunned is an everyday fear of everyone. And how many kids in the "world" get "new" daddies or mommies on a regular basis because their parents fight all the time or sleep around and cheat on eachother? Which is the less of two evils? And this "hope" for the chance to see "normal" human relationships???? Would that be a homosexual relationship? or inter-racial? or Hugh Hefner relationship? or the multi-family/ extended family dwellings? or would that be the boyfriend went crazy on the girlfriend and killed her relationship? I am trying to figure out what you mean by the "normal" relationship???? EVERY religion has its downsides and people that dont agree with the way it is lived, too bad. There is no evidence that makes these people less worthy. There are areas for improvement, I am sure...just like the rest of us!

  • Anonymous
    April 22, 2008 7:53 p.m.

    Is being seized by CPS traumatic? Yup! I bet it's traumatic for kids and parents both for different reasons. Is it more disorienting than getting moved around and assigned new daddies at will? What about the risk of getting kicked out and shunned? Ummm, hard to say. Maybe the kids are such little shape-shifting wizards that they will adapt brilliantly and take this all as just another upheaval where they have to figure out who to obey now.

    I am hoping and praying the kids do not wind up fitting in really well with other sociopaths in foster care.

    I am hoping and praying that at least a few of the kids find new doors opening and learn that the outside world, while certainly not short of horrors, also has strengths and beauties and opportunites for them. I am hoping and praying that MAYBE some of them get to see normal human relationships where people love and look out for each other without all the freaky overtones at YFZ.

    I am also hopign and praying that at least some of the parents do a whole lot of praying and considering and get a wakeup call, a reality check too!

  • ???
    April 22, 2008 7:01 p.m.

    TO Voice of reason and G

    Reports and evidence in juvenile matters are sealed. A judge has found probable cause for the children to remain in states custody, and I think the judge had more facts then the press has released to anyone here. I can't believe you guys find it so hard to believe that the FLDS may have abused these kids.

  • Wheezy
    April 22, 2008 5:07 p.m.

    I love Peter's quote regarding that she hopes Texas CPS is simply clueless regarding child welfare. I guess the FLDS mothers are way better at it. Consider that the girls are being raised to fulfill their destiny (as determined by the prophet) and the boys are raised to contribute to the wealth of the community until such age that they have proven themselves worthy of marriage (plural) or out they go. So much for motherly love. I applaud Texas for attempting to get a handle on the problem. As far as SWAT teams, remember Waco?

    Even polygamist groups in Utah have been violent. Remember Ervil Lebaron and his murderous followers when they killed two people from competing groups right here in SLC? I don't trust happy faces and long dresses.

  • voice of reason
    April 22, 2008 2:38 p.m.

    to ???:

    texas did not find evidence of abuse. but they have also not "let them be".

  • Empathetic mother
    April 22, 2008 2:28 p.m.

    Assuming there was abuse (innocent until proven guilty). Why rip the kids from the only home and environment they have ever known? If they have been abused, why abuse them further? Where are you going to find better (or even equal)homes for 437 children?

    Also, it's interesting that a middle school in Maine has just started dispensing perscription contraceptives to their students. That's 11-15 year olds. Where is the outrage there?

  • Not quite
    April 22, 2008 2:28 p.m.

    I haven't seen a single report of any 16 year old girls with 3-4 kids. The reports have only been that they have seen some girls who APPEAR to be teenagers, who are pregnant. I guess in Proud Texan fashion you just made up the rest, fill in the blanks, it gives you a reason to do whatever you want to these people, all in the name of justice.

  • Anonymous
    April 22, 2008 2:01 p.m.

    And the nursing infants. Were they sexually abused?

  • Proud Texan
    April 22, 2008 12:29 p.m.

    I do believe the evidence is confidential, but think 16-year-olds with 3-4 kids by 50-year-old sleazeballs would be a pretty good indicator that sexual abuse is going on.

  • G
    April 22, 2008 10:06 a.m.

    "Had Texas not found evidence of abuse they would have let them be."

    Where exactly is that "evidence"?

  • ???
    April 22, 2008 8:42 a.m.

    Texas is doing the best they can with that number of children. The FLDS are the ones that should be blamed for putting Texas in this postion. Had Texas not found evidence of abuse they would have let them be.

  • Anonymous
    April 22, 2008 8:37 a.m.

    Leave it to Texas. Or rather, Walther. Who was it that made her signer of warrants, judge, jury, and executioner? I don't normally agree with attacking one person, but she is now the one on trial, guilty until proven innocent. What happened to her heart? These are babies!

  • AMEN
    April 22, 2008 7:11 a.m.

    How nice to hear the voice of reason from someone who should know better. Wouldn't it be nice to see the Texas Authorities charged with child abuse...

  • DAve
    April 22, 2008 7:08 a.m.

    But look on the bright side, as soon as texas can "mainstreem' these children they will have the opportunity to join a nice gang and try drugs and alcohol.