Texas officials defend separation of FLDS children and parents

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  • chartelle
    June 5, 2008 7:35 a.m.

    to: Robert A Young

    I really do get agitated when I read comments from a
    person like you who shows that they do not have any critical thinking ability. They seem to be led to their conclusions and/or opinions by whatever media is saying about a subject matter. They show that their views have not been filtered through any intellect. And, intellect begins by being skeptical. Before you digest any information, and add it to your data base(brain),hopefully you will already have a large data base with which to compare whether or not the new information is similar to facts, experiences, education, and/or intelligence which has already been proven to be true or untrue. Without such a data base you must rely upon common sense. At least start with the position of someone from Missouri (the "show me" state). Government is the least likely source to be believed.

  • Solid Citizen
    April 24, 2008 5:09 a.m.

    When are they going to round up the parents in housing projects that allowed their children to become pregnant at an early age... Are they going to round up tens of thousands (if not more) of parents and children?...the Bill of Rights appears to have been trampled here. At least in this case children's lives are only ruined.. not destroyed as in Waco

  • Thomas ACLU poster boy
    April 17, 2008 1:08 p.m.

    If this was a fair world these children never would have been taken. But this is Texas.

  • Texan
    April 17, 2008 9:01 a.m.

    No, the raid was not correct or just and by allowing the actions of the state agents, the state has abused these children and their parents. If there is "just cause", produce the warrant, arrest those NAMED in the warrant, and then start the proceedings for a trial. So far, we have had nothing but allegations, by an extremely questionable source which has not been identified beyond what amounts to an anonymous telephone call. No one has been convicted of any crime in direct relationship to this- the state of Texas has acted very contemptibly.


  • Ronald A. Young
    April 16, 2008 1:04 a.m.

    Had the Raid not taken place and total in the way it was conducted. Fast, Clean, Complete, No Shots Fired, No one Dead or injured. Some people up set but oh well. How else would the Abuse been stopped. Putting Jeffs in Jail did no good, things just continued on. My have even gotten worse. Now the Abuse has ended and the people who think the way the State went in and taking all the kids was not proper it was. In Sex Abuse Cases you take both the Victims and the siblings, at least until it is all sorted out. Weather or not the 1st call legit, truth was found that made the State of Texas correct in their actions. Because they lived in the same compound that and moved the kids and wife's around that it made it like one big house and to get things sorted out everyone had to go. Now most of the Women have gone back. After all abuse is their life and after awhile if you are subject to it all the time it hard to live with out. It is their belief system. But it is against the Law.

  • Tragedy
    April 15, 2008 11:17 p.m.

    Unfortunately, statistically every large neighborhood in US probably has a child molester living in it. CPS doesnt go into these neighborhoods with armored vehicles and take all the children away. There is no question that removing a 5 or 6 year olds from their mothers and families is traumatizing and abusive. If there is evidence that men are abusing children, take the men, not the children and do it on a case by case basis, not for an entire community. The children could have been interviewed individually, one by one and then returned to their mothers. This terrible abuse of power undermines the legitimate and important role of CPS, is abusive and traumatizing to the children, and is a terrible tragedy. I would love to see polygamy stopped. I would love to see this group dissolve, but not with this type of abuse. Abuse doesnt stop abuse.

  • Jen Shostak
    April 15, 2008 11:00 p.m.

    "That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

  • "Be Sweet" ...creepy
    April 15, 2008 10:36 p.m.

    Please. I was a teenage girl once...any man over 30 was gross. Sorry. These girls enter marriages because they are trained to be "sweet." By the way, the crying mothers on the interviews had a strange, child-like manner to their speech. It was heartbreaking to hear, but weird.

    Moving forward, the CPS will have to be allowed to closely monitor activities on the ranch, the way they would do in any potential abuse case. We can't have a repeat situtation like this. And the men on the ranch can come to the middle alittle bit here. Wait till the girls turn 18. It's their arrogance and flagrant disregard for common decency that put them in this situation as documented by Carolyn Jessop and others reporting abuse.

  • Anonymous
    April 15, 2008 10:33 p.m.

    "Rep. Drew Darby, R-San Angelo, praised state efforts in connection with the FLDS raid and said, 'Don't mess with the children of Texas."'

    Ummm, Drew, I think you just did mess with the children of Texas. Nice quote though. Maybe you'll be included in the myriad law suits that will play out over the next 10 years costing millions in court fees and (no doubt) awards. Or maybe somebody will call CPS on you and tell them that you are abusing your kids. Will it be a lie? Sure. Will it matter? Obviously not.

  • Sad Story
    April 15, 2008 10:25 p.m.

    Listen to the mothers on the ranch...they have a strange "programmed" manner of speech, with almost childlike innocence. It's heartbreaking, really. I do feel for the mothers on a basic human level, but they essentially brought it on themselves by their leadership's arrogant disregard for the law and common decency toward some of their young. This has been well documented by Carolyn Jessop and others. Also..how can investigators get to the truth with FLDS leadership hovering around? They had to be separated, at least temporarily, especially since many wouldn't own up to parentage, ages, etc.
    Hopefully moving forward there will be no more suffering. Allow authorities to monitor their activities they way CPS would do in any potential child abuse case. And puleeze, FLDS supporters, quit saying that a 14 or 15 year old girl enters these marriages willingly. They are going through the motions because they are trained to comply and "be sweet." I was a teenage girl once...believe me, any man over 30 was old and disgusting. Sorry.

  • Ronald A. Young
    April 15, 2008 10:29 p.m.

    Good for Texas CPS stepped up and did the right thing. Good Job "keep on keeping on. Removing the kids from the parents and each other is common during an investigation. It will take awhile but these victims will begin to Roll over on their oppressors and talk. Once the brain washing begins to wear off and the light of day is seen and the sight is a bright day then some will sing like hungry song birds in the new morning dew. The cell phones where used for the purpose of control. Supervised and wired visits should be allowed after the investigation is done. The list of broken laws is legion.

  • AZ 1953
    April 15, 2008 10:22 p.m.

    to all you that said that this isn't going to effect the children I have a story. In 1953 there was a raid on this same sect. they took the fathers to jail and the mothers and children got scattered all over the state. on the utah side of the town AZ had no say, but the government decided to do a test to see if they could get away with the same thing. they picked a young girl that had some children and took them from her. it took her over a year to get them back but she did get them back. she had a boy that whas handy-capped from that time on. he would run and hide if someone came to the door. that is the way it will effect theses 400+ kids.
    if you want to look it up the lady was Vera Johnson Black.

  • Bunk
    April 15, 2008 10:17 p.m.

    I wonder how many members of this sect have seen Warren Jeff's jailhouse video where he admits that he's a fraud, and begs his brother Nephi to get a copy of the video and show it to "gentile and apostate", and anyone who asks. "I am the wickest man alive in this dispensation... I am not a prophet. I never was the prophet..."

    Think the sect members would start second-guessing themselves?

  • Sugar Momma
    April 15, 2008 10:13 p.m.

    When I first heard that Texas state had gone in and extracted hundreds of women and children all based off of one phone call of abuse, I actually laughed, thinking, Duh! You don't go to TEXAS to avoid the law! Any other state would have investigated one home. But not Texas.

    But it wasn't just a phone call. Remember Texas has had an informant of that sect's activities for four years. Thursday will show what evidence they do have, which I'm anxious to see. As a mother, it does break my heart to see the mothers' distress, but one of them flat out denied that 14-year girls get married off to older men, saying, "I've never seen something like that!"

    And here the Texas CPS has a 16-year girl old with 4 children already, in custody.


    I think that one bogus comment shot the credibility of any of the mothers' comments and protests. There were no actual tears, if you look. Weird.

    CPS across the country doesn't have the best reputation, and neither do foster homes. I feel like most of the kids are doomed either way, unless they are outright adopted by loving people.

  • What abou the law?
    April 15, 2008 10:04 p.m.

    The constitution is supposed to provide individuals protection from government - that's why there are concepts like due process, equal protection, freedom of religion, and protection from unreasonable search and seizure; all of which seem to have been violated in this situation.

    The misstep the "officials" took here was to disproportionately react to what appears to be a couple of calls from 1 allegedly abused girl among the FLDS.

    Instead of responding by investigating the individual situation, they somehow found it a good idea to nab 400+ children.

  • Marleigh Meisner
    April 15, 2008 9:46 p.m.

    Marleigh Meisner and her band of anti-family feminists should be given a life sentence.
    This is a disaster.
    Just recently our national news reported that 1 in 4 girls have an std by age 15. Bet that these 'endangered' mormons don't carry that curse.
    Out society will infect them physcially and mentally. They were far better off with their Mom's than under Meisner's ilk.

  • Anonymous
    April 15, 2008 9:32 p.m.

    CPS in all states are always in a lose lose situation. If you go in...the community bags you if you don't go in....the community bags you. It is a thankless job and those who have never worked in the environment haven't got a clue. I have inteviewed several children over the years and it is always heart breaking to hear their stories. you never get used to it. I take my hat off to the CPS workers in Texas for having the courage to stand up and be counted and doing something will arm chair quarterbacks criticise.

  • to Mike Las Vegas
    April 15, 2008 9:20 p.m.


  • Contrarian
    April 15, 2008 8:51 p.m.

    To the person who said: "A happy child will have no problem with adjusting to changes in their enviroment." Changes like losing their parents, their homes, their routines, their religion, their work, and their play? You suggest that the way to determine if a child has been abused is how well he/she adjusts to the sudden loss of all that is familiar.

    An abused child is more likely to exhibit acceptance of a new environment because he/she is relieved to be away from an abuse. In my experience it is children who are well-loved and happy at home who react negatively to being away from their parents. I have seen six year-old boys cry on the first day of school, four year-olds run out of pre-school in tears after their mothers, little ones who wet themselves, have nightmares, and older children who are terribly homesick. Add to the meddlesome mix a bunch of "therapists" who believe the children are cleverly hiding tales of sexual abuse and you have a truly bizarre, nightmarish situation. Didn't we go through this nonsense twenty years ago with trials for "satanic, ritual, sexual, child abuse"? Wasn't it the same insane, sex-obsessed adults pressuring little kids?

  • Michelle
    April 15, 2008 8:40 p.m.

    I agree. If you are going to crack down on these teen marriages and pregnancy, you need to round up every pregnant teen under 16 and their siblings and put them in foster care too. This is a direct attack against the FLDS, they are using the children to get them out of Texas. I LOVE Texas, but CPS needs to be overhauled. I have personally experienced their inabililty to do the correct thing in an alleged abuse situation. And let's all keep in mind that their must be proof in each child's situation of abuse occuring BEFORE they are removed from the home. If any geniune abuse occured, I believe the child should be removed AFTER proof of the abuse has been found...not on one phone call!!

  • Blind Eye?
    April 15, 2008 8:29 p.m.

    Everyone sees
    Yes this is suposed to be America
    Utah treats the people the worst
    Many innocent people are in jail
    Prosecutors and Judges are the problem
    No one willing to take responcibility to lock these people up
    There is no Justice in Utah
    Stay away

  • UtahGram
    April 15, 2008 8:24 p.m.

    It seems like hauling all of the children away without investigating complaints and children one by one should far exceed the authority of the Social Services group. This would be like taking all of the children on the local Native American Reservation because of pervasive alcohol and drug abuse resulting in significant abuse percentages. There surely are big differences between households, the way children are treated from family to family, and variations in marriage ages. To treat the group this way appears much like the Japanese, Chinese Interment Camps. There was little cause, but a big effect. Taking all of the children cannot have been a wise choice.

  • Proof and Evidence
    April 15, 2008 8:06 p.m.

    Where is the proof that 416 kids were abused?

    Where is a substanciated accusation?

    Where is the evidence of abuse?

    Where is coroberation of the phone call?

    Where is the intelligence of Texas law enforcement?
    Where is the honesty of the Texas Judiciary?
    Where is the constitution?

  • Anonymous
    April 15, 2008 6:56 p.m.

    I guess the Bill of Rights is wrong. Anything for the children, like stripping them from their families and holding them for maybe up to 18 months with no evidence. Guilty until you can prove your own evidence. Criminalization without being charged. And I think the hair was planted.

  • John S.
    April 15, 2008 6:32 p.m.

    I think Texas will have egg on their face before they are done. Taking children away from their parents and home really scars the children regardless of the circumstances of their home life. Putting children in foster care is not really the answer.
    What they should have done is crack down on the group and arrest every male who married an underage girl and explain to the group that they are on to them.

  • to:
    April 15, 2008 6:33 p.m.

    Huh? As a foster parent, I can tell you that the 'happy' ones have just as much difficulty adjusting to the new environment as the 'unhappy' ones. I've sat up nights with kids who were beat so bad, they almost died, but they are crying for the parents that beat them. The state of Texas has overstepped it's bounds. They changed the laws to get the FLDS, and finally, they think they succeeded. I hope that every child is either returned, or ever 13-16 yr old who is preganant in the state of Texas, is picked up and put in foster care. Can't have the double standards.

  • the burning question
    April 15, 2008 6:28 p.m.

    What would Joseph Smith do?

  • Court appointed....
    April 15, 2008 6:11 p.m.

    Lawyers work for the state not the client they are assigned to. The judge, CPS and court appointed lawyers all work for the same person - get their paychecks from the same agency. This is why anyone who has a court appointed attorney never wins their case and is usually bullied into doing what the state wants concerning the situation.

  • to: Rebecca
    April 15, 2008 6:05 p.m.

    A happy child will have no problem with adjusting to changes in their enviroment. An abused child will take a lot of baggage with them and have a hard time opening up and trusting anyone.

  • Rebecca
    April 15, 2008 5:43 p.m.

    It is interesting that people in America can sit back and watch (ignore?) the suffering of the urban poor children and say to themselves, "It's a shame, but there's not much we can do about it" while they are ready, whether constitutional or not, to do whatever it takes to protect the offspring of polygamists. It's not about the children; its about the "weirdness" of the polygamists' beliefs.

    I have a hard time believing that these kids are happy or relieved to be away from their parents where they can open up and tell strangers how terrible the adults in their community are. I believe they are likely scared to death to be away from everything they have ever known.

    Do people really believe that the foster homes into which these kids will be placed will be better for the kids than with their biological parents? This is not over. It might not be for several months, or even years, but this is going to come back to hurt Texas.

  • the long arm of the law
    April 15, 2008 5:49 p.m.

    What is it about breaking the law don't you people understand?

    Doesn't God want laws to be upheld?

  • Jack
    April 15, 2008 5:09 p.m.

    Texas Dept of Health stats indicate that throughout Texas, 1 in 40 girls between age 13 - 16 have had babies. Will CPS take all 13 -16 year old girls into state custody? Stopping abuse is necessary. Rounding up all the children is not. Civil Rights haven't got to Texas yet.

  • Mike Las Vegas
    April 15, 2008 5:02 p.m.

    I'm sure that the CPS people have real concern for the children as do I and everyone else that is normal, but, has anyone ask if they share the same concern for the children living in the bad neighborhoods in Houston and Dallas who face real day to day physical danger and who's mother's live with "Uncle" so an so who do the girls on a regualar basis??????? I think not.... Taking similar action in such neighborhoods whould not be so "P.C."....The Gastapo only picks on the weak....

  • Tired!
    April 15, 2008 4:58 p.m.

    We all keep rehashing the same things day after day. It all boils down to: What is best for the children. Stay in the life style they are used to! ie: Under age sex/marriages! Mental and physical crultey or: Puting an end to it now while there is still hope for a normal life. "The lawful thing to do"!
    The children may be suffering now but in the long run, it is the best thing that could be happening to them.

  • Lawyers representing the child?
    April 15, 2008 4:43 p.m.

    SO... the lawyers are there to represent the child (not CPS). So before they even get to speak to their client (the child) they have to be briefed by CPS? What's up with that?

    Maybe the Lawyers should try meeting with their clients BEFORE meeting with CPS to see what their clients wants/needs are. Or is what CPS wants the first and only priority in this case?

  • To Mike
    April 15, 2008 4:36 p.m.

    The questions will be very blunt and to the point. The only question is will the children reply or will they be afraid to reply.

    Your scenario lacks credability. You sound like an ACLU poster boy.

  • Evan
    April 15, 2008 4:34 p.m.

    There are too many conspiracy buffs on here with all the wild stories of things that never happened.

    This is an abuse investigation. Let it run it's course. Stop entering wild, unproven, comments that are not helpful to either side.

    Like it or not the government does function in spite of those who do everything in their power to make it hard and impossible to function.

  • Wondering
    April 15, 2008 4:37 p.m.

    It appears Texas continues to try and do the right thing.

    I am wondering how many of these anti-Texas posts come from the same individuals, supporters of the FLDS community, who are trying to influence public perceptions.

    It is not working.

  • Mike
    April 15, 2008 4:25 p.m.

    How long before allegations of interviewers misleading children during the interviews? How long before someone mentions that the children aren't getting the best legal representation since some of the lawyers don't specialize in family law (and none in polygamy)? Not long in my opinion.

    How long before other minority groups or the ACLU etc. speaks out against this treatment? If history is any guide, very long.

  • Brandon
    April 15, 2008 4:10 p.m.

    Texas was 100% right to do what it did do and what it is doing. It's too bad we have those in society who tie the hands of law enforcement and government to the point they have to wait for bodies before they can act.

    Texas CPS and DPS are the finest.

    April 15, 2008 4:07 p.m.

    You know what was wrong, to let these mothers go with the children, I was very surprised about this, this community's existence is based on brain washing and constant promptings when out in society. You know what was right, that the authorities finally got the mothers out of there, and they are doing a heck of a job trying to sabotage the safety of theirs or someone else's children. These children need to have a safe voice, and if facts start to come out, then these parents could lose "ownership" of these children. Children will adapt to a loving family, we have a family in our ward with six adopted children, their last one was six when they got him, he is so happy. I am sorry for the mothers to be separated from their children, but if they didn't protect them, they do not deserve to keep those children. People do not understand that there is a lot of twisted and cruel things that this group will do, ask the father's who were kicked out and their wives and children were taken away from them.

  • To Wrong and Right
    April 15, 2008 4:01 p.m.

    There are rules CPS has to go by. They're following the rules and you say they're wrong. WRONG, you're wrong.

    To Where Is Truth? It's where you find it as you amply have demonstrated. Don't Mess with Texas is on all the garbage cans for a reason. Don't come here with your mess. The FLDS brought a mess. These people are their own worst enemies, Napoleon. Now the courts will have to sort out what they neglected to do. Is that so hard to understand?

  • To Anonymous
    April 15, 2008 3:56 p.m.

    That's the way it's supposed to be done.

    Hard, wasn't it?

    CPS is doing it the correct way. Some people on here need to get a reality check.

  • re: wrong
    April 15, 2008 3:46 p.m.

    The only thing wrong here is the systematice abuse and rape of young girls and disowning and neglecting young boys.

    April 15, 2008 3:46 p.m.

    I just wonder - do you have MORE facts about this case than the rest of us who only know what we hear on TV or read in the paper? I just wonder how many facts you have that even the "govt officials" don't have that could make you KNOW that they are so wrong.
    I certainly don't think all of the facts are being given out.

  • Robert Allen
    April 15, 2008 3:42 p.m.

    If the Texas officials suspect that the children are not safe with the men at the ranch, why didn't they remove the men instead of the mothers and children?

    April 15, 2008 3:37 p.m.

    Texas authorities did absolutely the right thing to protect the children abuse. To say that Texas authorities "orchestrated" 13-16 y/o girls to be pregnant and/or mothers in forced marriages is beyond ludicrous. It's about time someone did something to stop the abuse.

  • BenM
    April 15, 2008 3:34 p.m.

    So the right thing to do would be do nothing while children are being sexually abused by 50-plus-year-old men? Unbelievable. This isn't about religion. This isn't about polygamy. It's about rampant child abuse. Lord willing, those children will never have to go back.

  • Anonymous
    April 15, 2008 3:16 p.m.

    My son was abused while in someone elses care. I took him to an interview with CPS. They took him to a room without me. This is the best way to get the real story out of children. My son would have been guarded with his story even in my presence. It was difficult for me to just wait, but I did. I was not under investigation, I had already been cleared.

    This seperation from home and family is normal and has been done for years.

  • Where is Truth?
    April 15, 2008 3:13 p.m.

    The truth will be told.
    "Don't Mess With Texas" You're too big for your boots! Remember Texas - Pride Goeth Before the Fall. Heaven help the people of the United States who have turned a blind eye and deaf ear to the truth. From Napoleon Hill "No accurate thinker will judge another person by that which the other person's enemies say about him."

  • Right
    April 15, 2008 3:04 p.m.

    WRONG....you are sooooo right.

    April 15, 2008 2:59 p.m.

    These govt officials have no idea how wrong they are because they are sure they're right. You can justify almost anything to protect the children but they are just wrong to go to extreme measures so they can get out of the children the kind of responses they are looking for. This is just Wrong.