Texas authorities move children while dozens of attorneys meet with judge

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  • EDlaw
    April 19, 2008 5:45 p.m.

    The manner in which the legal system operating in this case uses the guise of "child protection," is so obviously pointed. In urban communities across the US, particular men are fathering large numbers of children by various women, and most, if not all, not only lack the means to care for their copious offspring, but they have no intention or interest to do so in the first place. Why is nothing being done to bring to these irresponsible parents to justice? It seems to me that the children of San Angelo have a much more stable life than those urban children to which I referred earlier. FLDS children will probably not end up on drugs, in gangs, or being shot by their "brothers" on their own doorsteps. I think that it is painfully clear why this double standard is being practiced, and those who cannot see it are either blind, oblivious or simply dishonest with themselves.

  • Diane Layman
    April 17, 2008 3:48 p.m.

    It's none of the State's business. This country was founded on freedom of religion. As long as they don't insist we all become polygamists let them be! And the women & kids have done NOTHING so reunite them immediately. No the State would rather put them in horrible, abusive foster homes 3with strangers.

  • Former SLC Resident
    April 15, 2008 12:36 a.m.

    As a former resident of SLC not of LDS orgin I think it is difficult for people to understand that these types of situations are not normal. Sex with minors, 16 and younger is statutory rape, not "religon."

  • Geno
    April 15, 2008 12:11 a.m.

    Bob, if it was my religion to rob banks would that make it OK? I agree with "we know". They take public assistance but refuse to comply with the laws. If outsiders were evil, they wouldn't take their dirty money. Also, those mothers can and should be charged with "Failure to Protect." In Idaho that is a law and if you protect a criminal act against a child, as a mom you are just as guilty.

  • News Reader
    April 15, 2008 12:01 a.m.

    Deseret News, thank you for covering this story and for giving all parties a voice. I'm for ending polygamy outright. Utah should enforce its law against polygamy, which is a curse on our society, a drain on our welfare system, and a giant brainwashing cult that is harmful for generations. Allowing children to be exposed to a polygamous and illegal lifestyle should be a crime.

  • Khary Sudan
    April 14, 2008 11:52 p.m.

    I have heard a lot of allegations from various Texas state agencies. I have heard or seen no proof or evidence to support the allegations. I have seen small children separated from their mothers, the mother cell phones confiscated and communication with the media and others in the outside world cutoff. Whats going on? Looks like another Crook Creek to me.

  • Erin
    April 14, 2008 11:39 p.m.

    I think the families should be restored with conditions. All the children should be required to attend public schools until they complete high school. And no girls should be allowed to marry (spiritually or otherwise) until the legal age in Texas. And, people must be allowed to leave if/when they choose to do so. If the families all comply, this is at least the best first step to helping these people understand that they can be safe outside their compound, that not all "gentiles" are evil or out to hurt them. And that they have the right to direct their own lives.

    No one wins the way it's being done now. The CPS is not prepared to deal with children on this large scale and the forced separation may be causing the children more harm than good.

    Hopefully by requiring public education, it will be enough exposure to life outside their walls to help equip them all with the abilities to live a different way if they choose to do so.

  • Bob yer wrong
    April 14, 2008 11:31 p.m.

    Bob/ The FLDS "belief" that it is ok to sexually assault young girls is as far from religion then anything can be. Try again pal.

  • bleed the beast
    April 14, 2008 11:34 p.m.

    Would love to see the baby daddys step up and claim their offspring, then they could go straight to jail for welfare fraud. I have not one iota of sympathy for the adults in this "religion". They use and abuse their children then cry foul when the state stops them. Too bad, boo hoo. Those kids are better off in state custody

  • we know
    April 14, 2008 11:16 p.m.

    Check out the welfare that these people get at most levels of government. They have more money than we will ever know and still get wellfare because they have so many children and each mother gets to claim what they want even though there is only one father. Each wife can claim a family with the same dad. Bring the the money on!!! We lie in St. George and if you feel sorry for the FLDS, come and live with us, and see for yourselves.

  • Another thought from Bob
    April 14, 2008 11:13 p.m.

    If the parents are found guilty of abuse in this case, will they be branded as sexual offenders?

    How odd that such a finding could be made in regard to a person following dictates of conscience while practicing his religion.

    Beware! It may soon be a "Hate Crime," or "Abuse" to proclaim one's religious beliefs.

  • Douglas
    April 14, 2008 11:10 p.m.

    Took the women and kids away to get to "the truth". No luck. Took the cell phones away from the moms to get to "the truth". No luck. Took the moms away from the kids to get to "the truth". The increasing desperation exhibited by CPS is truly alarming, especially since the CPS has the benefit of full hindsight as to how tenuous their removal case is.

    And the authorities complain about isolation and brainwashing, like the public at large is too dense to recognize their same behavior, the big difference being that all American parents have the right to raise their children under the religion of their choice.

    Excuse me for completly ignoring any concern for alleged child neglect or abuse issues, the wholesale rape of our Constitution is the only really clear fact I have seen so far, and the degree to which these American's rights have been trampled is simply unprecidented in modern times. And the travesty becomes more egregious every day it seems, while the silence from CPS becomes more blaring. The Cyanide document turns out to be part of a first aid manual, and still no facts of abuse???

  • Amazed
    April 14, 2008 11:04 p.m.

    I am amazed at those who would return the children to a potentially dangerous community in the name of due process. Since when should we assume law enforcement releases all the facts to the media before the trial.

    Numerous officials including the judge feel they are acting in the best interest of these children.

    Listening to the "mothers" of the children only provides one biased point of view. I will respect the law enforcement officers on this one, and let them complete their investigation, before I get too riled.

  • Adam
    April 14, 2008 11:08 p.m.

    To Douglas: If you are an attorney in Utah interested in a similar case here in this state, please let me know with a way to contact you.

    I too have difficulty not thinking of these children in how they have truly been abused, BY THE STATE OF TEXAS. I find that these authorities, and many posting comments fail to understand the Golden Rule as well as "innocent until proven guilty".

    I do not know that there has not been abuse of children, of which I would find unacceptable. But how many of you that have condemned these people KNOW that there has been abuse? And do you know it is attributable to all the parents that have had their children taken?

    Such actions in a "free" country are inexcusable. To deny the basic associations of family on an anonymous accusation is horrific at best.

    If this were anything above board, the state of Texas would allow total access to everyone involved. Instead they seek to squelch the truth in every way possible so they can manipulate public opinion.

    When they can excercise tyranny against the unpopular with impunity, you can be sure others will follow. You may be next.

  • Roger and Helen
    April 14, 2008 11:01 p.m.

    We're sitting her in California, reading all of these comments. Thank you, D.N., for having at least attempted to share some of the views of the victims of this outrageous affront to the rule of law. If there is clear evidence of specific child abuse, rape, or whatever, then by all means prosecute! But nothing can justify rounding up all these women and children and creating a Texas version of Gitmo. And when they try to tell their story, their cell phones are confiscated? Something stinks in the state of Texas. Oh, one more thing--what's up with all those Baptist buses that were used to transport these prisoners? Is that the Texan verion of separation of Church and State?

  • Bob - the log in your own eye
    April 14, 2008 10:57 p.m.

    While I do NOT support any plural marriage format, I have heard many comments decrying Morman men with many wives, and young wives at that. Odd that in all jurisdictions in the United States, a man may marry as many women as he may talk into the arrangement - with "'Til death do you part." in the vows - so long as it's one at a time. You know - serial monogamy.

    I feel it necessary to point out that several states permit marriage at 16. No hue and cry there, either.

    Methinks I hear hypocrites at large! As a "Child of the '60's," I remember communal living, group marriage, and "free love" - all tolerated by this society as "freedom of expression."

    While none of those things are acceptable in my personal moral code, neither is it acceptable to tell others how - or what - they must worship. So long as marriage or sex is not forced, no one else - state, federal, or any other power under Heaven - has a dog in this hunt. Abuse must be proven, not just alleged.

    Remember, sex not only sells, it can be used to buy votes.

    Keep your agency.

  • A Dooley
    April 14, 2008 10:50 p.m.

    I hope that these children can be saved from the future inside the FLDS. Children should be loved and adored. Not traded off as sex slaves for some middle aged man to act out his sick fantasies with. This is America not some third world country. These women need some serious help and are obviously suffering from low self esteem amognst many other issues I am sure. I just hope that its not to late to save these people from themselves and maybe break the cycle of abuse. The Constitution is set up to protect people and I am glad TX stepped up and did something about it.

  • Matt in Tucson
    April 14, 2008 10:45 p.m.

    First, the rumor was that the FLDS didn't allow their ladies to have cell phones or access to the outside world. Then, the state authorities said the prisoners did not want to talk to the media. But, come to find out, not only did they want to talk the media, but they used cell phones to do it, and sent pictures to boot. This not only casts doubt on the accuracy of the authorities, but also the books of "escaped" wives who said such things were forbidden.

    Second, the telephone calls from the "16 year old" mentioned a specific perpetrator, armed guards at the compounds, "outsiders," and was repeated to Arizona authorities. It turns out that accused perpetrator was in Arizona under the watch of his probation officer, there were no armed guards at the compound, the FLDS use the term "gentiles," and Arizona authorities found nothing of merit in the phone calls. So, once again the officials lose credibility, and likely endanger any case against the real perpetrators they are after.

    So, can anyone tell me why the officials should be trusted on other things they have said? Is there really any legal evidence?

  • VegasBaby
    April 14, 2008 10:50 p.m.

    It will be an interesting day on Thursday. I wonder how many of the biological fathers will step forward to claim their children.

  • Sunny
    April 14, 2008 10:21 p.m.

    I think, from reports of women who've escaped, we've established this is a brainwasing cult, that uses religion as a way to continue the molestation of young girls. The fact that some of these kids can't even tell the officials who there parents are is horrible.
    Texas authorities are winging it, and mistakes will probably be made here, but I don't think theres a rule book written for this kind of mass abuse. Can you imagine being a mother of 3 at 18 yrs of age? I sure can't
    They can't prove their relationships to these children, they can't be allowed to see them. Listen, has it occured to all of you who feel so bad, that through no fault of their own, the Mom's are perpetuating the problem here. This is going to be difficult to deal with, but it needs to be done.
    Forcing young girls into marriage is bad enough, but if just a quarter of the other reported abuses are true, then these poor kids are going to be MUCH better off out of that hell.

  • suzie
    April 14, 2008 9:50 p.m.

    stephanie, I have also emailed the gov. of Texas telling him how horrible this is not only for the FLDS but for everyone who has any kind of religion. I agree totally with what you had to say and I like you would like to help these people. Let me know what I can do. And to all who feel the same as I THANK YOU for your support and comments in behalf of these people. Every comment helps.

  • Bayou Vol
    April 14, 2008 9:33 p.m.

    They may have been rescued, but it must be done constitutionally. This is not a question of the activities that went on in the sect, many of which are abhorrent. This is a blatant violation of the civil rights of the citizens that claim affiliation with this sect. The disregard for the fifth and fourteenth amendments shown by TX law enforcement is an embarrassment to the rule of law and the thousands of officers faithful to the constitution each day. Please understand that it is not a defense of child abuse, brainwashing, rape, incest, or any other vile and evil practice. The outrage stems from the basic rights we all enjoy, guilty or not, which are being blatantly trodden under by TX officials who then try and create justification on the backside.

  • wrz
    April 14, 2008 9:25 p.m.

    >>These children are naming multiple mothers, for goodness sakes! Do you know who your mother is? I suspect you do and probably who your father is also! These children have a right to know who their parents are at the very least!

  • Angelo Frank
    April 14, 2008 9:20 p.m.

    It's obvious the Deseret News is the propaganda outlet for the FLDS. All these slanted articles with claims of neglect and so called rights abuses by the Texas authorities are without merit. These children were rescued from the clutches of a cruel, abusive cult known as the FLDS, run by a group of pedophiles. This is a proven fact and neither the Deseret News nor the other FLDS sympathizers can change that. There is no religious subversion on the part of the Texas authorities and claims of such are just more well planned diverions from the truth of the matter. Thank God that my fellow Texans are so kindhearted and took action to halt this abusive cult in it's tracks. Well done DPS and CPS. Kudos to all those volunteers also.

  • re: Stephanie
    April 14, 2008 8:43 p.m.

    "EVERYONE deserves the protection of the law and due process"

    that is what the children are finally getting

    let the process play out

  • Douglas
    April 14, 2008 8:36 p.m.

    I know this may come as a shock to many FSB's (fundamental southern baptists), etc - but if all these women and children are all slaves, oppressed, abused, subject to rape, or otherwise unhappy with their way of life, why have none of them raised their hand to the investigators and said "I want out." While I imagine most FSB's still say they are brainwashed, at what point will a difference of religious preference be other than brainwashing in the FSB mind? Scream polygamy, forced marriage, etc all you want, but the only victim and perpetrator identified turned out to be bogus. Meanwhile the FSB's justify this Constitutional outrage by saying rapists have no rights. Now they just need to find the rapist.

  • Stephanie
    April 14, 2008 8:23 p.m.

    Okay everybody that as mad and outraged by this as I am, what the heck are we going to do about it? I am like Douglas, I cannot concentrate on anything because I am constantly thinking about this awful violation of rights that is occurring and it is hundreds of miles away from me. I feel powerless to make a difference but I want to do something to help these poor people be treated fairly. Posting this message leaves me feeling like I have done nothing. I wrote to the Governor of Texas, I begged the Texas ACLU to step in, etc., but nothing is making me feel like I am doing something worthwhile to help these mothers stay with their children. I am seriously asking for ideas about what I can do and, if you are of the same mind, what WE can do because I want to be able to do something of worth to benefit these people. I will check back for responses. If you don't agree with me I really don't care what you have to say about how these people are getting what they deserve--EVERYONE deserves the protection of the law and due process.

  • Far from Utah too
    April 14, 2008 8:04 p.m.

    The State of Texas has little regard for these women and children. Instead the state has used a specific allegation of abuse as a pretext to attack an entire group simply because they have an alternative family, social and economic system. The problem with allowing the government to intervene in the affairs of others without due process is that everyone becomes vulnerable to the whims of the state. If this is allowed to stand, it will be a set back to all our civil liberties; as such, it should be of significant interest to the ACLU.

  • Bob
    April 14, 2008 7:53 p.m.

    I note that the FLDS moms are only calling Utah newspapers. No such contact is being reported from Texas papers. How 'bout the DNews not sensationalize this thing based on only cell phone calls from media-desperate moms?

    Texas has capable family services professionals, district attorneys, and law enforcement. There is more to this action than is being reported. Keep digging and don't only report the cell phone chats.

    April 14, 2008 7:51 p.m.

    So, here in Utah among the predominant religion we hear of a lot of sexual abuse of children in their own homes, pregnancy by incest, mind control. Much older men with "authority" talking about masturbation with 12 year old girls behind closed doors, and yes even the occasional Bishop found guilty of sexually abusing a girl in his congregation. Read about the lawsuits if this seems unbelievable. Is this Texas Raid a religious issue? If it is not, then why the whole entire round-up? Is it time for the State of Utah to round up all women and child members and remove them to make shift shelters until the law can sort through who is being abused and who is not.This is a case by case issue. Will this be the "phone call heard round the world?" Of course there will not be birth certificates for all of these children. Many are home births without State documemtation. Why are the cell phones being taken away? I commend the strength and self restraint which the men and boys displayed as they have not used force. I hope the Amish way of life is not the next to be attacked.

  • Chrissy Winn
    April 14, 2008 7:46 p.m.

    Polygamy is not the issue in this case. Child abuse is the issue. We cannot allow people to sway the focus from abuse to polygamy. Forced marriage,underage marriage, sexual or physical abuse these are the issues.

    This is not about FLDS it is about practices within this community by individuals. The INDIVIDUALS should be held responsible. If the mothers knowingly failed to protect their children then they too should be held responsible.

    A mass court hearing is ridiculous. Have we forgotten due process. This reminds me of the Japanese internment after Pearl Harbor. If one FLDS member did it they must all do it. Americans should be standing up and shouting about the blatant disregard for civil rights.

    Hardened criminal, mass murderers and the unibomber received due process. How could anyone know what happened in a persons home without allowing each individual home to express their story.

    Wake up you self righteous judgemental people. I'm not FLDS but I can see their cry for fair treatment and I must agree. Even Polygamists have a right to our constitutionally protected rights.

    May the lord bless those poor mothers and children and give them strength and comfort in their time of need.

  • chemist
    April 14, 2008 7:34 p.m.

    The LDS church practiced polyamy in the 1800s. The federal govenment prosecuted and persucuted them until they stopped that practice. I hope the states persecute and prosecute the FLDS and other polygamy groups until they either stop the practice or are destroyed as a church, cult, whatever. Their finances should also be examined.

  • Far from Utah
    April 14, 2008 7:19 p.m.

    When the media sways its readers to believe, it is time for the readers to find the real truth. I remember a few years ago a Utah teenager was kidnapped by a stranger and the stranger made her either a spiritual wife or spiritual daughter. Utah stood up and was proud of how the law enforcement and judicial system handled the case. It was sad to think what that stranger had done to that child.

    The FLDS men are not strangers to their victims of teenage spiritual wives. The women and men have allowed abuse of children to continue.

    It is the government's responsibility to protect those that cannot protect themselves. That is what the State of Texas has done.

  • ACLU true colors
    April 14, 2008 7:10 p.m.

    You folks don't seem to understand the ACLU's role in America.

    They are a partisan far left advocacy group.

    They don't have a dog in this fight.

  • Annonymous
    April 14, 2008 6:35 p.m.

    The FLDS is a cult and should be treated as one. I agree that Polygamy is not only disgusting, but wrong and so are the people that follow this so called religion. The children are better off where they are than staying at a compound that might eventually end up like the Waco standoff.

  • anonymous
    April 14, 2008 6:32 p.m.

    Well, they do everything big in Texas - football, barbeques, bigotry, ...it's no suprise.

  • Amazed
    April 14, 2008 6:31 p.m.

    Religious freedom? Do the women and children in Mormon fundamentalism have religious freedom? No. They are coerced into polygyny, sharing a husband with many wives, forced pregnancy and mandatory motherhood amounting to slavery -- all by religious beliefs that are dictated to them by men who are making it up as they go along.

    Do the women and children have normal access to education, safety, services like other US citizens? No. They are isolated and deprived of normal rights.

    Do the women and children have any options or support for pursuing education and training and careers and paychecks, and a life they choose? No. They are coerced into a pioneer lifestyle.

    How can anyone call this religious freedom? This is not about freedom of religious speech or belief--this is about BEHAVIOR or inflicting your relgious beliefs and practices upon others, not to mention bondage, pregnancy, motherhood, abuse, and female and child slavery.

    On top of these abuses, are rape, child abuse, incest, forced labor, mind control, and complete exploitation of bodies, minds and lives. This is about control, of others, not about freedom of any kind.

  • Louisa
    April 14, 2008 5:42 p.m.

    Polygamy is clearly illegal in this country. Frankly, in my opinion the State of Texas is simply being responsible and effective, i.e. aggressively investigating in order to protect the right of its littlest and most defenseless citizens to grow up in an environment secure from child sexual abuse, child abuse and prearranged underage polygamous marriages. If abuses are not established in these cases, has any harm really been done through aggressive investigation? No. This is a situation where children deserve protection and I for one am grateful that the authorities in Texas are being responsible and looking out for the best interest of the children.

  • Anonymous
    April 14, 2008 5:26 p.m.

    All of you are pathetic. These people are not being punished for their religion, abiet it is a cult and not a religion. They just call it a religion to justify what they do. These people are breaking the law, i.e. old people marrying underage girls. They only marry them spiritually because they know they can't marry them legally. That is rape - statutory RAPE. Regardless of what religion/cult you belong to, if the male is over a certain age and the female is under a certain age it is rape regardless of consent. And it should be. The FLDS do everything possible to skirt the law. It is disgusting. If they can't be faithful to one wife, at least they should be unfaithful with other adults and not children. I fail to understand why everyone is defending them. They are disgusting. It makes me sick to think of these older men having sex with girls that are under the age of 16. They are just "babies" themselves and certainly not mature enough to be a mother.

  • Hugh McBryde
    April 14, 2008 5:19 p.m.

    In a country where the principle is innocent, until proven guilty, why would the mothers have to prove anything? They are charged with no crimes. Why can't the simply leave with the children that call them Mommy? Certainly enough people we all agree to be their neighbors are there, no one is disputing which child belongs to which mother, I am sure.

  • Concerned
    April 14, 2008 4:58 p.m.

    Our state DOES have a right to intervene whenever there is suspected abuse and neglect of underaged children! Some of these children are not even sure who their biological parents are! These children are naming multiple mothers, for goodness sakes! Do you know who your mother is? I suspect you do and probably who your father is also! These children have a right to know who their parents are at the very least! This is just one of the problems that I see with this group of people who have separated themselves from mainstream society. Anytime a group of people cuts itself off from mainstream society, we all should be asking what is going on behind this need to be isolated. When the stronger are controlling the weaker, something is not right!

  • Dale Osborn
    April 14, 2008 4:45 p.m.

    I can`t believe some people are concerned so much about decent people trying to separate themselves from a world that teaches...It`s ok to drink booze smoke drugs...have teen mothers that cost us for years, let lude and lascivious behavior be a matter of fashion..... These people take care of their own problems and do not ask for help...What you have done is wrong..You have condemned innocent people.
    Some states have allowed teen marriage since 1812..BIBLE men had many wives and some places still have this. You want to go after corruption and sin??..Start at home...At church...Your own heart!!

  • ACLU?
    April 14, 2008 4:39 p.m.

    Seriously, where is the ACLU on this one? The ACLU is really showing its true colors....

  • Douglas
    April 14, 2008 4:39 p.m.

    The ACLU is absent because of the child abuse allegation. Some people deserve killing, but no child deserves rape, the most socially repugnant crime and affront to morality in our Country. Raise child abuse/rape up the flagpole and everyone salutes. Child molesters have a short life-span in prison, being despised by even the most devious of violent criminals.
    As such, it appears that the ACLU is sitting on their hands, petrified to act in case some really nasty facts indicating child abuse are unearthed. While they have taken unpopular positions in the past, it seems that being viewed as siding with the child molesters is too much for them. The child protective services people have played this card to the max, but soon they will have to prove their sweeping allegations on a case by case basis, without using religious affiliation as their sole factual support of parental unfitness.

  • enough of this
    April 14, 2008 4:18 p.m.

    I am LDS and while I don't agree with the FLDS stance on polygamy it seems to me that this has gotten so out of hand that it is ridiculous! To take children away and to not let mothers see or talk to their children breaks my heart. I am a mother and I would be so distraught over not being able to be a mother to my child when he/she needed me. There could be abuse going on and if that is the case remove those children but an entire community? Come on if this isn't religious persecution I don't know what is.
    At first I was glad they took the kids but now it seems that the government has violated every right that these people have! Let them go home and do this the right way if they are being abused look at each case individually and go from there.

  • Thomas Jefferson
    April 14, 2008 4:06 p.m.

    What I would like to know is what judical policy or procedure manual is Texas following. This is unprecedented. As such, they have no choice but to make things up as they go along. How does a judge know when and who these kids can talk to or visit. How is it that we effectively assume that even the mothers cannot be allowed access to they're own children. No one has made any allegations against a mother yet but no matter 'no can do'. Texas is in unchartered territory and making up the judicial rules as they go has a horrible constitutional track record. Want to bet the US Supreme Court gets a number of cases out of this mess.

  • Douglas
    April 14, 2008 4:12 p.m.

    How is the State going to prove that the teenager became pregnant in Texas? No crime unless the state proves it occured in the prosecuting jurisdiction. I suspect the mothers are resiting talking to the interogators, although I am certain we will see no child unclaimed when the custody proceedings get underway. Since in 2005 a 14 year old in Texas could lawfully marry and bear children, age at conception is also an issue.

  • Timothy-Allen Albertson
    April 14, 2008 4:05 p.m.

    Tom Green Courthouse? My, my!!!

  • ? Common Logic
    April 14, 2008 3:31 p.m.

    Extending your thoughts - should the government look into all children where the parents do not have a valid marriage certificate? Where do you suppose this would lead?

  • John
    April 14, 2008 3:17 p.m.

    Thank you Douglas.

    Where is the outrage? 416 children are yanked from their homes. They and their mothers are held incommunicado. If there are broken laws, convict and punish the guilty. But why is this entire community being punished? Doesn't the law required that a parent be found guilty of neglect or abuse in order to remove that parent's child?

    Is it automatically considered "abusive" to associate with a group that others find distasteful? Is it automatically considered "abusive" to associate with a person who may have engaged in underage sex?

  • stephen blaser
    April 14, 2008 3:15 p.m.

    I have look on and wondered where all the civil rights people have been during the time this has been going on. I thought that the ACLU might have been out of the country while this was going on.. We all know that if these parents would have been black or brown or purple in color that the ACLU would have been going crazy by now.. How can a cell phone call from one person, that hasn't been found yet, cause the civil rights of all these people to be taken away. It seems like we are back in the 1930's again and we all are living in Hitler's Germany

  • Making more sense
    April 14, 2008 3:06 p.m.

    Would it not have made more sense to remove the adult males, and let the children stay in their own homes? Cheaper too. I think Texas may be answering to the USSC on this one, and pretty soon, at that.

  • WaCk E
    April 14, 2008 2:54 p.m.

    Now the government should goto all the low income projects around the US and rip there kids away from them!! All we have to do is to have ONE kid call the cops for help and call in the SWAT TEAM!! save all the would be drug dealers and gang bangers!

  • Common Logic
    April 14, 2008 2:49 p.m.

    Presenting a court case in defense of FLDS parents and children would logically begin by determining parentage. A mother and a father with a valid marriage certificate for themselves and a valid birth certificate for the child should have legal standing as parents if no abuse is claimed or suspected.

    All other children should be treated as abandoned and become wards of the state. Mothers who were impregnated under legal age and who refuse to identify the father (physical sire) of their child (or children) in order to protect him from criminal charges, may need counseling before they resume parenting roles.

  • Douglas
    April 14, 2008 2:43 p.m.

    Hard to believe the state wants to hold one hearing to determine collectivly if a given parent is guilty of neglect in regard to a given child. I guess the state just needs to appoint one guardian ad litem for all the children, and make all the attorneys for the parents appoint a spokesperson to make all the oral arguments. Since the culture is on trial and the individuals rights are irrelevant, no argument or proof as to specific grounds suggesting fitness or lack thereof should be heard. Then, punishment can be delivered to the community as a whole - maybe make them all wear an armband, tattoo their social security number on their wrist, and limit any application for visitation with a child by thats child's parents to evidence on how the group's culture has become more mainstream.
    I find it hard to concentrate running my law office knowing that anywhere in our country this wholesale trampling of our Constitution is occuring. I sit in shock, reading these blogs, waiting on our government to wake up, acknowledge its mistakes, return the kids and start over on their investigation. Shame on the ACLU for their absence.