Fort Concho: Tight quarters, fear taking toll on moms, children; exclusive phone interview

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  • awarthurhu
    June 13, 2008 4:57 p.m.

    I just saw this article for the first time, and it correlates well with what the mental health workers testfied were prison / concentration camp conditions. Word and pictures of this never made it out of the small world of polygamy geeks, this NEEDS to hit the national news, especially now we know it was after CPS found evidence of NOTHING, no 13 year old pregnant girls, no abused boys.

  • Janice
    April 19, 2008 5:12 p.m.

    "polygamy is illegal" WHY ?

    The strangest things about child abuse is the ability of people to ignore most child abuse and focus on this group. Why is it not illegal to tie little baby boys to tables and mutilate their weenies ? Subjecting them to extreme pain ? Why aren't all parents with circumcised sons rounded up and put on prison ??
    Thousands of poor children go to bed hungry every night because their parents can't afford food. Nobody Cares.
    These FLDS people are dangerous to the corporate consumer establishment. What if too many people were to find out how happy these people are and start imitating them. Corporate America wants women to feel insecure about themselves and compete for men and buy cosmetics and sweatshop clothes and get boob jobs and work and pay taxes to support war in Iraq. They sure don't want them living in harmony in self sufficient communes sharing the same husband. These people were not hurting anyone they are good people the don't drink or use drugs they love their families. They don't commit crimes.
    Humans mature and can have children at age 14. This is a biological fact. Get over it.

  • Mark Hansen
    April 14, 2008 11:41 p.m.

    The United Nations Convention on Genocide defines genocide to include inflicting on a religious group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction even in part, and "forcibly transferring children of the group to another group." I don't condone child abuse,and if there is a perpetrator he or she should be punished. But it sure looks to me like Texas is guilty of genocide.

  • Rob Barns
    April 14, 2008 9:35 p.m.

    This is typical of our repressive Iron Heal ZOG. This was a very illegal act by the Feds and Texas enforcement officials. They should all be arrested and charged with kidnapping at once!

  • Imprissioned
    April 14, 2008 4:47 p.m.

    I'm from Oklahoma and I'm a Mormon and today I heard that the children are lying to the DHS workers. I was surprised but praised them and applaud them for standing up to the Satan worshipers. Amen and my prayers are with them.

  • Outraged
    April 14, 2008 4:37 p.m.

    I can't believe that this has been allowed to continue like this. Animals have more rights than these people that have had thier lives torn apart!!!
    And allow the mothers back in for petes sake! those children NEED thier moms. And the MOMS NEED thier children!!! This is NOT happening in america is it? It sounds more like Russia, and that These HUMANS have NO RIGHTS!!!

  • Kitenoa
    April 14, 2008 7:33 a.m.

    If polygamy is illegal in Texas, who in government allowed or approved the construction of this ranch, the largest polygamist ranch ever build in Texas?

    These government officials are not stupid, they were fully aware of the polygamist lifestyle. They understood the risks from the get-go. Stop playing ignorant about your deliberate choices to accept these FLDS folks. Blaming others states for your decision is another huge mistake.

  • Dee
    April 14, 2008 6:46 a.m.

    This is really sad. These young mothers and children are in a sad situation. I know that they feel lost and alone. But if they can find there own voice and let go of there fears then maybe the truth will be able to come out. I have read that by the time they are born they are not even allowed to cry that is taken from them. They are taught that they have no voice they must do as the leader of the flds says. Then think of the lost boys. That should have been looked into a long time ago. A true parent does not kick there child out, just because the boys can't reproduce or be a slave to the older men. This is really sick. Everyone should be allowed to say when they want to be married or to whom they want to marry and if they want to have chldren or not. I do believe this is the United States of America. My head is just spinning and so many sad and emotional feelings for the young mothers and the children. We all have a voice and I hope they can learn to use theirs.

  • This is SO wrong - 2
    April 14, 2008 2:03 a.m.

    ROUND UP THOSE PEDOPHILES INSTEAD!!! - and let the women and children live their lives - if they need a group of people to oversee that they are ok and no men make it onto the compound, then so be it but for gods sakes let the kids live some semblance of a normal life!.
    Government idiocy run amok once again.
    Where is the outcry for government turning into Big Brother? We all read this as kids and thought it could never happenwell it certainly has!
    If we let this sort of thing happen and don't stand up against it - trust me - we all could be next!

  • This is SO BACKWARDS!!
    April 14, 2008 1:58 a.m.

    You could have left the women and children together on the compound and you wouldn't have inflicted the psychological damage that you are now doing to those poor children sitting for hours on end looking at each other pitifully with nothing for them to do and crammed into a huge barracks room together like rats in a cage.
    Are they even allowed to go outside and get any fresh air and play? I highly doubt it!!
    The way that this was handled by CPS and Texas is horrible and they are inflicting worse harm on those children by having done this, than they would have done had they stayed there. There are babies, toddlers and children of all ages there all crammed together...tell me how this is healthier and better for them than where they were before? The teenagers maybe not, but the small ones?? This is horribly medieval treatment of VICTIMS!

  • Wondering 2
    April 14, 2008 1:40 a.m.

    Wondering | 11:03 p.m. Apr. 13, 2008
    So, Layola, you say," that to allege the children were touched inappropriately is most likely a flat our lie".
    Wake up! Children are abused in foster care all the time. Who is going to protect these innocent children from "state" predators?

    Are you part of the solution or the problem...the kids were examined by healthcare workers not groubbled by an old man. Not all children are abused in foster care...get to know some foster families. This is an investigation, some of you sound like you are afraid what the physicians, investigators, gals, social workers will find out.

  • EP
    April 13, 2008 11:49 p.m.

    Though this is the Deseret News website, I REALLY hope we have all been smart enough to consult more than _just_ the D. News for information before posting our "informed" opinions on this website. Anyone with ANY powers of intelligent reasoning can see that the paper's entire coverage of the YFX Ranch situation in Texas is biased. Virtually the _only_ people quoted about the situation were members of the YFX community. No questions were asked about those women's position in the community, how old they were when they were married, how long they've lived there, etc. Emotionally manipulative statements like "I know with Heavenly Father's help I will be able to get them back" were the main bulk of the articles. The authors deliberately crafted the description of medical exams to make it seem that the children were being physically/sexually abused by examiners. Yeah, I'm sure it IS scary to have a stranger doing a rape test on you when you've never even been taken to the doctor before, but that doesn't make it ABUSE!! The entire Sunday, April 13th edition of the D.N. was a disgusting display of propaganda parading as "journalism."

  • Anonymous
    April 13, 2008 11:51 p.m.

    These women are most likely saying what the men told them to say before they took away the cell phones.

    The FLDS women have been raised from birth to keep quiet and to not have opinions of their own. To believe that they are suddenly on their own complaining about the living conditions when they have for years endured rape, beatings, families "reassigned," young teenage sons ripped from their families and abandoned in the desert, adultery as a way of life, being forced to lie as a way of life to fraudulently get state funding, and son on, is just insane.

    These women we are pretending that they are being neglected and that any illness has been caused by the state. How likely is it that no child was sick when they were rescued from the compound? A dozen have chicken pox they brought with them.

    My tax dollars are supporting those kids AND women right now, and they are complaining about it. I'm a single mom with one child supporting them with my sweat. Texas had no idea who may kids were out there. They didn't have to let the moms come. Grow up, ladies! Protect your kids!

  • Wondering
    April 13, 2008 11:03 p.m.

    So, Layola, you say," that to allege the children were touched inappropriately is most likely a flat our lie".
    Wake up! Children are abused in foster care all the time. Who is going to protect these innocent children from "state" predators?

  • concerned citizen
    April 13, 2008 11:01 p.m.

    I have to agree with a prior comment that "their right to silence" has brought this down on their heads. If they had spoken up and stated what was happening in their homes it could have been determined who was being abused, and since this was not done. it has to be determined that they are all at risk especially with the obvious child brides, in the shelters women who are obviously 13 years old with two children. SICK.

  • Anonymous
    April 13, 2008 10:36 p.m.

    "The mothers said the children have also received physical examinations from medical workers and it has been traumatic to some. Some of the children have come out crying and screaming," she said. "They were touching their bodies in inappropriate ways."

    What do you think the little 13 year old girls went through on their wedding night!? You didn't care about trauma or inappropriate touching then...

  • CMArizona
    April 13, 2008 10:27 p.m.

    I always get angry reading these added comments. I am amazed at the lack of compassion for everyone involved. It is never easy doing something unpopular but when it comes to keeping children safe from sexual abuse, but right is right. Living in a polygamist environment in this era will never work because it is illegal. FLDS can always move to Mexico like the "Church of the first Born" did. Most of the Le baron's killed each other. The only difference between this group and a family with a father that is a pedophile is that there are more of them. There is much to be done to have a healthy end. Why don't we all focus on making sure that every momma has a healthy daddy to go with all of their kids. Sending the mamma's and kids home with daddy is just wrong. The adults need to prove themselves not the authorities. I will pray that the mothers hearts will be touched and someone will come forward and end this.

  • Breaking the Law
    April 13, 2008 9:54 p.m.

    It really doesn't seem to even come down to abuse or religion, etc. For whatever reason, these people were breaking the law; practicing polygamy. A call was made, allegations set forth, other laws might be being broken? Okay, start searching. Oh, look, NO ONE WILL ANSWER OUR QUESTIONS! Well, the children may not be able to tell who the parents are, but the parents? So, we haul them all off. I do not like what is happening. As a mother of four young children, I can understand the stress of caring for a child in the situations these mothers currently face. However, it really come down to laws being broken. Let us hope it can all be worked out to the best advantage of everyone from this point; abuse or no abuse.

  • Gas Chambers
    April 13, 2008 9:18 p.m.

    I'm just wondering when they are going to send these people from the concentration camp to the gas chambers.....

    Now that's a scary thought.

    I'm not condoning the bad things some of those that call themselves FLDS have done, but the state of Texas has gone too far. If they can do it to them, what's to stop them from doing it to anyone else.

  • me
    April 13, 2008 9:10 p.m.

    "But to allege that the children were touched inappropriately is most likely a flat out lie."

    Children who are taught to be as modest as these children have been, would feel violated by an intrusive examination. Heck, I would have been! Those children will probably refuse to see a doctor ever again even if they need to!

    If the biggest problem is that the children and mothers won't say who is who, do some DNA tests. That would have been a lot less intrusive and could have been done on the premises without taking anyone away.
    As far as women lying about their own ages and birthdays, how many women like to admit their ages?

  • Diana
    April 13, 2008 8:36 p.m.

    While it would make more sense to arrest the abusers and leave the women and children at the ranch, it can't be done at this point. The authorities have no right to arrest any of the men before they've made an investigation. Some of the men may be single, widowed or only have one willing adult wife.

  • Layola
    April 13, 2008 7:19 p.m.

    So they live in cramped quarters. Big deal.

    The children take a long time to go to sleep at night. Big deal.

    But to allege that the children were touched inappropriatly is most likely a flat out lie.

    These women are lying and saying they don't know their birthdates.

    Only 30some have given their birthdates. Why lie?

    If there is one thing we all know is the records are very important. The FLDS women know when they were born!

  • Concerned in Ohio
    April 13, 2008 7:19 p.m.

    Regardless of right or wrong of removing these women and children, looking at these cell phone images they need better living conditions immediately. Overcrowding like that can only lead to spread of illnesses and trauma. If the state is going to take children they need to provide them with a decent place to live

  • Armchair quarterbacks?
    April 13, 2008 7:15 p.m.

    What a wonderful age we live in with all the information we could ask for readily available through the media--internet, TV, paper, etc. Problem is that we end up relying upon the often biased and sensationalized reporting of a few.

    Before criticizing the authorities, you'll need to go back and sit in on every conversation/interaction leading up to this point--phone calls, meeting with the leaders on both sides, living on the ranch and in the community, etc. You'll also have to be present for the initial "raid" and go see for yourselves the current living conditions.

    As a communication "fan" I would caution everyone to make sure they have an accurate picture of BOTH sides of the story. Yes, this has got to be a stressful, frustrating, confusing situation for many of the kids involved. The FLDS adults that are used to this lifestyle will obviously see themselves as victims and cry foul. However, the same laws that they claim protection under also protect others (ie. innocent children.)

    Authorities already admitted they had no idea how big this was going to be. Still, if they waited and someone else got hurt, there would be more outcry. Tough situation!

  • This is a tragedy
    April 13, 2008 7:09 p.m.

    created by a lie!

  • Laura
    April 13, 2008 6:44 p.m.

    If they have evidence a child, or children, have been abused, why haven't they arrested the ABUSER and leave the rest of these people alone? It is interesting to note that Marleigh Meisner, the spokesperson for CSP, was also involved in the Waco raid.

  • love the lord
    April 13, 2008 6:47 p.m.

    This is downright ABUSE! To hold Americans hostige like this.And keep mothers away from their babies.These people Never were in a compound until DCFS took them to this one!! They are trying for all they are worth to find anything to prosecute this unpopular religion.These poor little ones being harassed day after day.
    These children are taught the Book of Mormon, Bible,Book of Jasher(to name some) And they strive to live ALL of God's laws....SOOO why are we as a society so against them??? Do we truly believe the bible to be the word of God? They believe in Prayer ,Faith in God,and Purity in all things. How can you justify this when there is no evidence a crime ever occured?? ATROCIOUS... Let them worship how where or what they may. And let them "COME OUT OF THE WORLD ,OH YE MY PEOPLE AND BE NOT PARTAKERS OF HER SINS". Every person in this society has free agency to leave at any time they want to.. But they are happy serving God and have the assurance that their path is pleasing in his sight. WAKE UP TO WHAT REAL ABUSE IS!!! But please do not harass innocent people like this!!

  • maklelan
    April 13, 2008 6:39 p.m.

    I think many people here need to be aware that there were no polygamous marriages taking place in Eldorado. The men legally married to one wife would only cohabit with another woman without a civil marriage of any kind. It's no different than Hugh Hefner shacking up with six teenage girls. The only crime that has been alleged is child abuse, and that charge has not been shown to be substantiated in any capacity. They believe different things than most of you, and in this country that's not a crime. If you claim that they need to be rooted out for their beliefs then you need to find another country to live in where your rights are more important than someone else's.

  • how do we know this info is true
    April 13, 2008 6:37 p.m.

    It's funny how people who insist the initial phone call is a "prank" or a "ruse",assume that this report, which is based on nothing but supposed phone calls from people who use only their first names, is correct. All hearsy, all rumor. Nothing verfied.

    I don't have a problem with the polygamy, excpet of course FLDS's attempts to "bleed the beast" with their welfare fraud. I do have aproblem with 12-14 married against their will. With people who think that people can do whatever they want as long as it's "their religion".

    I've been following the doings of the flds for years. Not many people cared about human rights and civil rights and due process of all the "lost boys" kicked out of flds, the members of the church, who when they dared question Jeffs, lost their wives and children b/c they were "reassigned" to people of Jeffs choosing.

    If this "raid" had resulted in another Jonestown you would probably be bawling about how the government failed these people.

    I just hope that the girls who want to leave can leave and the moms who want to leave get full custody of their kids.

  • Why are the sources ...
    April 13, 2008 6:10 p.m.

    ... all identified by first name only? If the women are that terrified to own their own identities, then no wonder there's such confusion in sorting out whose children belong to whom.

    The accompanying video today includes a mother saying she goes every day trying to see her children but they won't let her in. I'm wondering, Deseret News reporters: Is she one of the ones who refuses to give authorities her first and last name as well? Is the strange secrecy part of the problem here?

    As I see it, a little communication will go a long way to sorting out if any crimes have been committed and reuniting the families involved in this situation. Merely existing as "Dorothy" won't cut it. In fact, it's just as fishy as a phone call from an unidentified 16-year-old.

    If these women are this terrified and mired in secrecy and groupthink, is it any surprise this 16-year-old girl was as well?

  • Thomas
    April 13, 2008 6:01 p.m.

    At the time of the Short Creek raid, Americans were shocked by such storm trooper tactics. In the era of waterboarding, this sadly is no longer the case. The state of Texas is moving forward with their efforts to destroy these families. Will no one stop this evil?

  • I guess I'm heartless.
    April 13, 2008 6:05 p.m.

    First I want to say, waaaa, 2nd I want to say, when I read this, it reminded me of Katrina, these poor people all stuck in one place. Oh wait, big difference, the Katrina people were robbed, raped and even killed, they had no clues where their families were, oh, and they didn't have this Utopia to return to, being this little shut off world with everything that is wanted. I am sorry, I do feel bad for these children, but I feel worse for the girls when they reach age 12 and have some wrinkled old man take them to bed "spiritually". Let's see, if we weigh this, a week, a month away from home and family vs. child rape, I think I know where my sympathy goes to.

  • the Ogre
    April 13, 2008 5:07 p.m.

    "People - let the legal system work here in Texas. There are many facts not yet made public. The FLDS are being well cared for and are not in danger of further abuse. Remember, polygamy is illegal in TX and, as opposed to Utah, we like to enforce the laws of the land."

    I agree there are many facts not yet known, but I do not think the FLDS are being cared for well. The overcrowding is wrong. If the state only had this to accommodate these people, then they should have waited until they had the facilities to support their ill-planned and ill-conceived raid.

    I wonder if they are being protected with state sponsored abuse like the destruction of families.

    The final straw is enforcement of the law. This is farcical to say regarding a state that has to largest death-row in the nation. Yes, Texas likes to enforce laws, but the heavy-handedness it manages crime is no less wrong. This is the state where preemptive strike George governed. Not a lot of thought coming from our dear pres and none from the state that bred him.

  • the other texan
    April 13, 2008 4:40 p.m.

    Religion is not an excuse for child abuse. If you can't see the problem with under aged children being forced into sexual relationships you also have a problem. These poor woman are so indoctrinated and brainwashed that they can't see that the authorities are attempting to help them.

  • To: The Texan : 2:43
    April 13, 2008 3:55 p.m.

    I'm old enough to remember when the Constitution actually meant something and the government required evidence before taking anyone into custody. I guess rights and due process don't mean anything to Texans anymore.

    I'm all for prosecuting child abusers, but the fact that Texas probably violated the Constitutional rights of ALL of the FLDS members at the ranch means that any case brought against the few real abusers probably won't hold up in court.

  • Lilathe
    April 13, 2008 3:22 p.m.

    They took the cell phones away from the prisoners too. Sounds just like what they are accusing the FLDS of doesn't it? Cut off all contact with "outsiders" so that your CPS form of brainwashing, scare tactics and physical sexual assauts couched as "exams" can work in privacy?
    Some of the women did interviews via cell phones, so the "advocates" of the children asked a judge to order the removal of cell phones so that the prisoners could not be contaminated by "outsiders".

    CPS is evil and out of control. Children suffer much more physical and sexual abuse once they are taken into CPS "protection". Do some research, look at the statistics of abused children in CPS care --MUCH MUCH higher than in normal population.

  • Chris
    April 13, 2008 3:16 p.m.

    Polygamy is illegal - the Texas authorities finally cracked down on it. This should have been taken care of years ago when the polygamists first came (before they proliferated/grew in numbers). Bottom line though, is this is NOT a polygamy issue - Warren Jeffs is a convicted child molester and he's the "prophet" and leader of this group. He sets the example and the men follow it. Poor misguided people. Is bad that authorities in Arizona and Colorado have allowed this polygamy/pedophile group to exist so long in their states - it should have been taken care of when it was a small problem. I'm glad the situation has finally come out in the open.

  • To: The Texan
    April 13, 2008 2:43 p.m.

    A DPS trooper asks you who the children with you are and you say nothing. And the trooper is supposed to walk away at that point? You just declared the child an orphan and the DPS has the legal right to take them from you and find the legal parents. What don't you understand about that? Staying silent under these circumstances makes it much, much worse.
    The evidence is no one claimed the child as theirs. Or is that too obvious? The child is put in protective custody. Not your version of that.
    Don't mess with Texas. It's even printed on the garbage cans down here. We have DPS troopers down here, good people. If this were a police state the FLDS would never have been here in the first place.
    This is an abuse investigation and thus far the FLDS have pushed it in the direction it is going. They're the problem, not the authorities. Stop making things up. How old are you anyway?

  • David
    April 13, 2008 2:41 p.m.

    Joyce has a point. Many of these women are victims as well and now accomplices to any injustices performed on the children around them. The children are going to cry, because they are away from what they know (even if it is abusive). Now I find it hard to believe all these families had abuse happening. But at the same time, I'm sure we don't have the full story. The fact that there may have been many underage children pregnant or with babies, has to be investigated, even if the initial warrant for the 16 year old was fake. It wouldn't have been that bad if these women weren't supporting a crime. But if one crime were committed, and no person would speak on it at all, it shows as being part of a problem, instead of an innocent bystander. Truthfully, I'm not sure what to think. Are the Texas rangers bigots throwing down on a different religion? Or are the Rangers busting up a large brothel? Hopefully the truth comes out. If the Rangers are to blame, firings and compensation. If the FLDS, the saving of children.

  • Joyce
    April 13, 2008 1:55 p.m.

    These women are not allowed to do anything on their own without the men telling her what to do.
    So, with that in mind.
    These women were well trained as to what to say to the reporters. The men know how to get sympathy from the public is to use women and children as their weapons.
    I have no symathy for these women.

  • laura
    April 13, 2008 1:13 p.m.

    if they were truly protecting the children and intended for them to remain with their mothers, they would have removed the MEN instead. Or in the very least, they'd allow the other mothers access to their children. Even if it was during a set visiting hours.
    Even my foster sisters were allowed to visit with their abusive biological parents before they lost their parental rights.

  • BDB
    April 13, 2008 12:29 p.m.

    Tex, correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding was that the polygamous marriages were performed by the church, without any kind of legal state recognition. That being the case, how can they prosecute them for polygamy when they're not legally married? You can't prosecute Hugh Hefner for his essentially polygamous relationships, why would they be able to do that here? Texas is apparently a state where religious persecution is acceptable, even when it means a trampling of constitutional rights.

  • What Rights?
    April 13, 2008 12:17 p.m.

    I would like 2 point out The Fourth Amendment "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." AMERICA is FAILING and will 4ever go down hill If we as a people don't stand up for our Constitutional Rights...Our Forefathers fought lived and died 4 our freedom. Is this how we repay them?...

  • Tex Cougarguard
    April 13, 2008 12:13 p.m.

    People - let the legal system work here in Texas. There are many facts not yet made public. The FLDS are being well cared for and are not in danger of further abuse. Remember, polygamy is illegal in TX and, as opposed to Utah, we like to enforce the laws of the land.

  • To: The Texan
    April 13, 2008 11:09 a.m.

    So they didn't show their papers and that's cause enough to arrest the children, oh excuse me, put them in "protective" custody? No other evidence needed?

    What is Texas? A police state?

  • To: Carolyn
    April 13, 2008 10:34 a.m.

    Why the outcry for the children of illegal immigrants and the demand for a humane solution that protects the innocent children of circumstance but no such outcry for the protection of these 419 children carried away from their homes by a government that apprears to know better?

  • Mark
    April 13, 2008 10:26 a.m.

    Kids will always cry. They will even cry for those who abuse them. These children are being handled the best way they can be for such a large group. The children need to know security, and that they ARE NOT GOING to be used for a breeding farm. Time for a change.

  • Carolyn
    April 13, 2008 10:22 a.m.

    I salute Texas CPS for rescuing these children and their mothers. Polygamy is against United States law as far as I know. It should have been firmly stopped and practitioners arrested in Utah and other states when the practice was outlawed in 1890. It's scary what can be tolerated and practiced in the name of religion.

  • Thomas
    April 13, 2008 10:16 a.m.

    I carry no brief for child-molesting polygamists, but unless those women contacting the News are exaggerating, it sounds like some of the case workers are typical arrogant bureaucratic types, like at the DMV or public school administrators.

    There is no greater disparity between professional quality and personal self-perception than among government workers.

  • Tragedy
    April 13, 2008 10:10 a.m.

    This is a tragedy perptrated by a hoax. The phone call that started it all has been shown to be a ruse to allow authorities to take the children. Where is due process in all of this? Or the kindness and humanity one would expect from an agency which believes it is protecting children. Sadly, this will solve nothing and will result in many of those children and adults suffering PTSD. Everything is bigger in TX, especially the mistakes.

  • Anonymous
    April 13, 2008 9:51 a.m.

    The herd mentality here is what is wrong. They have suspected abuse and I don't doubt there is some and the actual abuse should be prosecuted. And like every society it will depend on the victims being brave enough and feeling safe enough to prosecute it.

    But this is not the American way to deal with it. It's crazy and abusive to these women and children who have done nothing wrong themselves. Meanwhile, where are the "abusers"? - oh yeah, they are still free. After the women and children have been treated this way by "child protective services" and police - how likely are they to call for help - ever?

    I have seen first-hand abuse of power in Utah's Child Protection agency and frankly, I don't trust them. There is a place for this service but they believe they know best for every family (most workers barely out of school and inexperienced). They use state-given power in the name of child welfare, knowing their superiors will support even the bad caseworker (to protect the agency and retain power). It's disgraceful what they do in the name of caring and protection. I shudder at the next raid in protection's name.

  • Thomas
    April 13, 2008 9:24 a.m.

    Now we know why they wont let the media talk to their prisoners

  • CPS scare tactics
    April 13, 2008 9:19 a.m.

    I never heard an entire community being uprooted to protect one accuser of abuse.

    These children don't have the same understanding of who they are in relation to families, because they tend to raise them with many different mothers and sometimes fathers. They probably do know which is a biological parent, but most little kids I know wouldn't know what I was asking if I wanted to know who their biological dad was.

    The state authorities of Texas should not be touching and examining those children without parental consent. They are violating those kids and making a mockery of what CPS stands for. CPS is to protect kids, not cause more damage to them and this raid is going to impact all those kids for decades.

  • The Texan
    April 13, 2008 8:42 a.m.

    When the authorities came, identify yourself, give a valid birth certificate and a named father. No problem.

    Stand there and refuse to answer questions and watch the authorities take them away.

    What don't you understand about who caused the problem?

    And now it's crowded? Why is the state spending $25,000 to $30,000 a day to take care of you if all you do is complain. Perhaps they should send you the bill. All the bills, lawyers, court costs, etc. But you have the right to remain silent and all that brings. Enjoy, you brought this on yourself.

    You're right Blaine, no one speaks for you and these people provided their own lack of words to cause even greater problems.

  • DeLaval Milker
    April 13, 2008 8:26 a.m.

    They're not after the communists or trade unionists here. They're after the child molesters, a process that may involve rescuing their victims. Against this, I will not speak out.
    Of course this process is going to be traumatic. The tragedy increases exponentially the longer one of these compound cults is allowed to enslave the minds and bodies of the 'faithful'.
    The separation and upset are necessary but unpleasant things. These people have been captive all their lives. Denied educcation and taught fear of the outside, it's not surprising that they will have some trouble adjusting.

  • Blaine
    April 13, 2008 7:43 a.m.

    "First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me." -- Pastor Martin Niemller

  • DAve
    April 13, 2008 7:35 a.m.

    We will probably never know if these children were being abused. But, we know they are being abused now.

  • Timj
    April 13, 2008 7:01 a.m.

    Texas is going to get sued, big time...

  • Redlog
    April 13, 2008 7:01 a.m.

    The long term solution to the poligamy problem is simple.
    Let them cohabit as they will(people do that anyway)
    but limit the number of children a male, breaking the law and living in poligamy is entitled to create...say a resonable number, maybe six.

    After he has reached his quota,

  • Robert from NC
    April 13, 2008 6:07 a.m.

    The old movie is been played over and over again. Take one problem, add government, and the result is chaos. These government stooges are making a problem worse. If poligamy is wrong, how about shacking up? Why doesn't the government go after these people too? The reason is that it is an overwhelming problem and a poor use for the taxpayers money.

    This crazy cult is doing many things wrong and the news media is pointing it out to the world. Other crazy cults, like snake handlers and peyote smokers are also in the wrong. It is not the duty of the government to go after every religious deviant.

    This group who call themselves "Fundamental" Latter Day Saints act as if they had some claim to or a real reason to call themselves LDS. THEY DON'T! The real LDS Church is a fine, upstanding, honest, decent, truthful organization which is attempting to spread the word of God and help its members prepare for an eternity with their creator. The FLDS group is a bunch of people practicing a deviant lifestyle while pretending to believe in God. May they mend their ways and quit the poligamy.

  • St. George
    April 13, 2008 5:50 a.m.

    Disgusting what the State can do. This is a crime and the Judge and the CPS should be held accountable for their actions.

    Just as the men who are marrying child brides, hopefully, the new FLDS profit will wake up and see this was all caused by not letting the girls turn 18 before marrying them.

    Still two wrongs dont make a right, and these children and mothers need to be set free.

  • Californian
    April 13, 2008 5:04 a.m.

    Leave these people alone. If there is proof of child abuse in individual cases, handle it. Do not persecute all these people. All of us who are religious believe things others may disagree with, and I would want others to keep their noses out of it. Apparently the mothers can come and go so if they didn't like the situation they would not have to return. They could have a custody hearing on an individual basis if there is dispute between the parents over any child a parent wants to remove from the compound.

  • Bill
    April 13, 2008 1:42 a.m.

    This is going to end badly.

  • kb
    April 13, 2008 1:23 a.m.

    Don't you think this is all being handled a little poorly. The Children and women need protected, but humanity and wisdom should be used were ever possible.