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Choir
April 8, 2008 9:23 a.m.
The only ones reading this are teachers. The problem is with the legislature and
outspoken parents. These people think capitalistic until it is their child with
the problems then they point at the system. I just count the days until the
lottery pays me off, ( the lottery I call the legislature, because it is all a
crap shoot with them)
To Tooele
April 7, 2008 8:36 a.m.
In response to "Tooele Teacher": The merit pay plan will be defined by the
district on a per-district basis. The rule suggests evaluation methods include
multiple factors, not just straight test scores. Make sure your district is
aware of your concerns.
Bena Round
April 6, 2008 9:33 p.m.
So, this sounds like, what did they call it? oh yeah, Career Ladders, which
morphed into something like teacher days, principal directed days, etc. The
legislature has a severe case of SSDD syndrome...
Just put it in my
salary and let me make a decent living. I work two jobs, my wife works two jobs
- just to get by. I have almost twenty years in education, two degrees above
bachelors, and could make more starting out at the Post Office with a GED at
this time in my career. (Okay, 12 mo's vs 9 mo's, i don't care, it's all divided
the same. I still truggle all winter.)
If they want accountability,
they need to put the accountability on the parents and students. Testing is a
waste. I can teach to a test all year long if that is what you want. The
accountability needs to be on parents not making excuses for their kids.
Any future teachers out there, let me tell you, there are better ways to
make a living. Nobody gives teachers respect anymore. Do something that will
make you some money, and that you won't have to take kids crap all day long.
Tooele Teacher
April 6, 2008 8:57 p.m.
In conclusion: So, other than testing, what other way is there to decide
who deserves the merit pay? It comes down to evaluations by the adminstrators.
I currently work at a school where I would trust the adminstrators to do a good
job at this. However, not all adminstrators are competent. Additionally, any
teacher who is left out of the money would then have a big incentive to either
sabotage the adminstrator to make him/her look incomentent, or to simply move to
a different school site. (After all, who wants to work under an incompetent
adminstrator who doesn't recognize your worth?)
I would hope that
erery teacher who recieves a satisfactory evaluation would be eligible for the
merit pay. Besides, if I am doing my job well, shouldn't I get the merit pay?
And if I am not doing my job well, shouldn't I either be given help to improve,
or be encouraged to find a different profession?
So please, no
quotas. Allow everyone at the site to receive the pay every single year, as
long as they are doing a good job. That way, there is no in-fighting, no
cronism, and no lowering of moral.
Science Teacher
April 6, 2008 8:50 p.m.
There is no way to justly mete out this merit pay. Merit pay would only cause
more senior teachers to dump the low IQ and difficult behavior problems onto
other, younger teachers. I see it happen WITHOUT merit pay. I can't imagine
the chaos when they will be paid thousands more to do the registration
switcheroo.
It also causes animosity between colleagues... people who
should be working together toward a common goal. Why should I help you, work
with you, share ideas, collaborate, cover your class, share resources, etc.,
just so you can beat me out to that extra carrot?!?
No... merit pay
is BAD for teachers, and bad for kids.
Tooele Teacher
April 6, 2008 8:42 p.m.
Continuing: Tests don't measure student progress. They are designed to
test what the students know (assuming that the student can be motivated to try
on a test that doesn't have a direct impact on anything of importance to his
short-term view). The tests are NOT designed to measure what the student has
LEARNED during the school year. That would require TWO testing times so that we
could administer both a pre-test and a post-test.
If test scores
are to be used, we need to measure progress, not end results. We also need to
factor in that some students are more cooperative than others. I have one upper
level class. They are EXTREMELY cooperative in class, and then, they do their
homework out of class. In my lower level classes, I have to work much harder
during class to maintain a learning environment. Then, when I ask for their
homework the next day, I don't receive nearly as many completed papers. In
short, I don't teach them nearly as much. However, the huge gains made in the
upper level course are EASIER for me to achieve. I must be a great teacher for
them! We need to be real.
Tooele Teacher
April 6, 2008 8:33 p.m.
I have many of the same concerns that Bob has. However, I am still open to the
idea of merit pay, if those concerns can be fairly addressed.
First,
if a quota is set, either in law or through the funding, I would see this as a
big mistake. Out of say 50 teachers at a school, how can anyone decide how many
should receive merit pay? Should it be 10? 25? 40? Setting it up on a
district level is not really any better. As Bob points out, this would go only
to a select few each year, leading to low moral among the rest. I would also
say that it would lead to cronism, rather than to competency.
Second,
what are the determining factors? Test scores are usually brought up. However,
this is inherently problematic.
Tests are not administered in all
subject matters. So if I teach German, and there is no German test, am I
ineligible?
Students don't always stay with the same teacher all
year. Just last week, I recieved two "new" students because they had misbehaved
at their school. They were sent to mine. I haven't had much of a chance to
teach them anything.
Bob G
April 6, 2008 7:12 a.m.
Merit pay among teachers would not be a good thing, it would only create
animosity and a disfunctional teaching staff. The teachers would be better
served if they all got this merit pay equally paid among them. We need to keep
teachers on a level equality and with better pay. They all merit the pay but
they also merit recognition by districts and by the state. The teachers already
get pay comesurate with qualifications and longevity but merit pay would add
animosity among teachers that think they deserve it eually with their peers. And
merit pay tends to go to a selected few every year and leaves others without
recognition. The education system in Utah needs overhaul starting at the top
with the appointed members of the board that are politically influenced in all
they do. We need to start with a board elected by the public in the districts
they live, and not being controlled by lobbyist and politicians or political
parties.
Board to tackle merit pay for teachers
The only ones reading this are teachers. The problem is with the legislature and outspoken parents. These people think capitalistic until it is their child with the problems then they point at the system. I just count the days until the lottery pays me off, ( the lottery I call the legislature, because it is all a crap shoot with them)
In response to "Tooele Teacher": The merit pay plan will be defined by the district on a per-district basis. The rule suggests evaluation methods include multiple factors, not just straight test scores. Make sure your district is aware of your concerns.
So, this sounds like, what did they call it? oh yeah, Career Ladders, which morphed into something like teacher days, principal directed days, etc. The legislature has a severe case of SSDD syndrome...
Just put it in my salary and let me make a decent living. I work two jobs, my wife works two jobs - just to get by. I have almost twenty years in education, two degrees above bachelors, and could make more starting out at the Post Office with a GED at this time in my career. (Okay, 12 mo's vs 9 mo's, i don't care, it's all divided the same. I still truggle all winter.)
If they want accountability, they need to put the accountability on the parents and students. Testing is a waste. I can teach to a test all year long if that is what you want. The accountability needs to be on parents not making excuses for their kids.
Any future teachers out there, let me tell you, there are better ways to make a living. Nobody gives teachers respect anymore. Do something that will make you some money, and that you won't have to take kids crap all day long.
In conclusion:
So, other than testing, what other way is there to decide who deserves the merit pay? It comes down to evaluations by the adminstrators. I currently work at a school where I would trust the adminstrators to do a good job at this. However, not all adminstrators are competent. Additionally, any teacher who is left out of the money would then have a big incentive to either sabotage the adminstrator to make him/her look incomentent, or to simply move to a different school site. (After all, who wants to work under an incompetent adminstrator who doesn't recognize your worth?)
I would hope that erery teacher who recieves a satisfactory evaluation would be eligible for the merit pay. Besides, if I am doing my job well, shouldn't I get the merit pay? And if I am not doing my job well, shouldn't I either be given help to improve, or be encouraged to find a different profession?
So please, no quotas. Allow everyone at the site to receive the pay every single year, as long as they are doing a good job. That way, there is no in-fighting, no cronism, and no lowering of moral.
There is no way to justly mete out this merit pay. Merit pay would only cause more senior teachers to dump the low IQ and difficult behavior problems onto other, younger teachers. I see it happen WITHOUT merit pay. I can't imagine the chaos when they will be paid thousands more to do the registration switcheroo.
It also causes animosity between colleagues... people who should be working together toward a common goal. Why should I help you, work with you, share ideas, collaborate, cover your class, share resources, etc., just so you can beat me out to that extra carrot?!?
No... merit pay is BAD for teachers, and bad for kids.
Continuing:
Tests don't measure student progress. They are designed to test what the students know (assuming that the student can be motivated to try on a test that doesn't have a direct impact on anything of importance to his short-term view). The tests are NOT designed to measure what the student has LEARNED during the school year. That would require TWO testing times so that we could administer both a pre-test and a post-test.
If test scores are to be used, we need to measure progress, not end results. We also need to factor in that some students are more cooperative than others. I have one upper level class. They are EXTREMELY cooperative in class, and then, they do their homework out of class. In my lower level classes, I have to work much harder during class to maintain a learning environment. Then, when I ask for their homework the next day, I don't receive nearly as many completed papers. In short, I don't teach them nearly as much. However, the huge gains made in the upper level course are EASIER for me to achieve. I must be a great teacher for them! We need to be real.
I have many of the same concerns that Bob has. However, I am still open to the idea of merit pay, if those concerns can be fairly addressed.
First, if a quota is set, either in law or through the funding, I would see this as a big mistake. Out of say 50 teachers at a school, how can anyone decide how many should receive merit pay? Should it be 10? 25? 40? Setting it up on a district level is not really any better. As Bob points out, this would go only to a select few each year, leading to low moral among the rest. I would also say that it would lead to cronism, rather than to competency.
Second, what are the determining factors? Test scores are usually brought up. However, this is inherently problematic.
Tests are not administered in all subject matters. So if I teach German, and there is no German test, am I ineligible?
Students don't always stay with the same teacher all year. Just last week, I recieved two "new" students because they had misbehaved at their school. They were sent to mine. I haven't had much of a chance to teach them anything.
Merit pay among teachers would not be a good thing, it would only create animosity and a disfunctional teaching staff. The teachers would be better served if they all got this merit pay equally paid among them. We need to keep teachers on a level equality and with better pay. They all merit the pay but they also merit recognition by districts and by the state. The teachers already get pay comesurate with qualifications and longevity but merit pay would add animosity among teachers that think they deserve it eually with their peers. And merit pay tends to go to a selected few every year and leaves others without recognition. The education system in Utah needs overhaul starting at the top with the appointed members of the board that are politically influenced in all they do. We need to start with a board elected by the public in the districts they live, and not being controlled by lobbyist and politicians or political parties.