Police seeking man in child-bride marriage
Alexander Hamilton stated, If circumstances should at any time oblige the
government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to
the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if
at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to
defend their own rights and those of their fellow citizens. (Federalist paper
29)"Hello! Due Process of Law" we must defend our neighbor and
their rights, for if we do not, we are next people!
"Our contest is not only whether we ourselves shall be free, but whether there
shall be left to mankind an asylum on earth for civil and religious liberty."[Samuel Adams]"The Constitution shall never be construed... to
prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping
their own arms."Samuel AdamsI think all Americans Should be
outraged at what has transpired, Don't you see what impact this has on every
American, we need to defend our neighbors, before they come for us.....
The U. S. Constitution give us freedom of religion as well as freedom FROM
religion. I thought it interesting that in the LDS raid a "First Baptist Church
Bus" was being used to transport the children out of the area.
This is not a matter of religious freedom or of religious persecution. It is a
matter of state law. Warren Jeffs, the FLDS leader (who is now serving a 5 yr
to life sentence in Utah) decided to build this new compound in Texas far from a
huge population center so he could do as he pleases. His choice placed the
compound in very isolated area. But his plan has backfired since Texas law
regarding marriage is very strict. Unless previously legally married, 1. If you
are younger than 16 you must have a court order. If you are 16 to 18 years old,
you need either parental consent or a court order unless you are legally
emancipated after a formal hearing, making you an adult for most purposes,
including marriage) , Not allowing early marriage of children is not an
infringement of religious grounds, but on the grounds a state has the right to
regulate marriage. Polygamy is not the issue since the marriages are performed
by the leadership in the compond and those marriages are not even recorded in
counties where these compounds exist.
My heart goes out to the mothers and to the children who were torn
from each other when the government raided the Texas ranch. I wish there were a
way I, not a Mormon, could help them. I do pray for them all!
Its about time someone takes the children away from them. They don't need that
kind of situation. Of course, I know it is painful to take babies away from
their parents. Those children needs a better place to live, they don't
need to be abused in sex or physicaly. They're just children and let them live
their own childhood. Being sexually abused and being physically abuse can give
them a nightmare for life and it is hard to get rid of the pain inside them. If
they don't get help, you will not know what the children are thinking in their
own mind. They may want to cry out for help but they can't. Maybe its because
they're scared that the people won't believe them or their parents will stop
loving them or many other reasons.Quit complaing people. Start
realizing what's best for the children... Live a life with a loving family who
loves them and don't abuse them or live a life with a family who abuse them.
I am so angry and saddened. In this country are we not inoccent until proven
guilty? Should't there be just cause before you are allowed to take a child away
from their family? The burden of proof needs to presented to the people. We
should be watching what OUR government is doing because these people are
American citizens and deserve to be treated as such. Our governtment has acted
in a barbaric manner. We are too quick to forget the: The Spanish inquistion,
the Nazis, The Salem witch hunts just to name a few. Shame on our Government and
shame on any one who condones their behaviour. If our government is allowed to
act like this towards these people (completley forgetting their constitutional
rights) then what's to stop them from doing this to any one. This really is
scary to me and I should not fear my government the way I do right now!!!
I think you've sure been given a line about "rightous polygamy". It has caused
much pain and sorrow. It was sometimes a lifestyle in certain groups of 3rd
world countries. Of course, there may have been some good people involved. But
whenever a country gets it's freedoms it goes or gets very advanced it goes
away. It is/was a lifestyle and was never a commandment from "God". (Joseph
Smith doesn't count...his was obviously trying to convince Emma that he had
"virtueous ideals" wanting to be with so many women) and look how that turned
out for the 1900s and up until now! Many people don't want to admit that the
people we're are talking about now are very similar and came from the early
church. It's sad and disgusting and we will not stand for these excuses
I cannot believe there are comments on here condoning the practice of polygamy
in the name of religious freedom!! If you are not given all the information how
can you give informed consent? Where are the marriage licenses and birth
certificates of these women and children? And don't tell me religion forbids
such items and that they are above the law on this requirement? Warren Jeffs
compound had vehicles - so someone had to have one. So only the 'men' in power
were allowed just 'outside' influences and freedoms. There is definitely
brainwashing here. What happens next to ease the culture shock for these US
The girl who complained was 15 when she was forced to marry not 16. Parental
consent doesn't apply here. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to live in
a progressive society, the Amish do it just fine. However they follow the laws
and give their children the chance to see the real world at 16 and decide for
themselves if they choose progressive or Amish. That is real religious freedom.
Chasing off the young men and forcing polygamist marriage on a 15 year old is
not religious freedom.
this religion sure does seem to be obsessed with sex....pretty pathetic
The Child Protective Services have over stepped their boundaries to take half a
religious communitys children because of one report. If the service had enough
time to listen to the details of this 16 year old girls experience they could
have at least asked her what her name was and where she could be located. Rather
than raiding her entire community without finding her. I hope the CPS realize
their mistake and return all of these children to their homes as soon as
I think they should take all the men out of the compound and let the women stay
there. There are nice homes and resources for these hard working women. No
foster home can deal with these kids appropriately. Also, how did homosexual
marriages get legal before polygamy marriages? One is abhorred in the Bible and
the other, well, Every Jew, Christian and Muslim has a revered history to be
reconciled with, of "God's" wisdom in using Polygamy to populate and create a
higher class of unselfish, loving families. When men try to imitate this without
it being legal, they run out of prospective brides and turn to under aged girls.
Plus with legality comes greater monitoring like in monogamous homes where abuse
is occurring. Originally polygamy was founded on a respect for women and a
higher call of virtue, with relations being restricted to having children that
one could support. (Not during any other time i.e. for personal gratification,
pregnancy, lactating or menstruation) So there were laws! Certainly, under age
marriages and force is wrong! So for a man to overcome his passions and women
overcome jealousies, it's a great thing! It is a religion. People will die for
bunch of these polys down at the south end of the valley going to public
school..I wonder if the parents are able to vote? The police down there are sure
vigilante when someone so much as speeds yet sticks there head in the ground
like ostriches when it comes to these people committing felonies..making a
mockery of the justice system. This gone on too long as they exist in Draper
right in the Open. This is built on Lust not Love! FREEDOM! IF THAT WAS ME , I'D
BE IN PRISON SO FAST! AS I BELONG TO A DIFFERENT RELIGION!
They are hypocrites and are now being exposed for who they are. Why are their
new wifes always younger? Jeff and his cohorts are not prophets just
pedophiles. I feel sorry for the families but no girl should have to grow up in
that enviroment forced to perform for old men under the guise of gods will. The
problem is it is not gods will but the lust of power and flesh. Sick bastards I
hope they get what they deserve. Locked down with bubba.
FLDS are NOT MORMONS OR LDS!!!! THEY ARE HORRIBLE>I AM A MORMON
TEXAN NATIVE AMERICAN AND ALL I CAN SAY IS POLYGAMY IS EVIL
I think the Fundamentalists need to remember that You are not LDS,
please do not expect help from the LDS church, especially when the LDS church is
so violently opposed to your false doctrines and continuing practice of
polygamy.The LDS church obey's the laws of the land.If
you are so afraid of losing your children, why don't you practise your religeon
in another country that allows polygamy?If you are so afraid of
losing your children DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT---MOVE far far away.How
do you explain to your children your excuse behind break the law?
Just a report. Twice today I have heard national commentators on national shows
refer to this fLDS problem in Texas to be "Mormon," "Latter Day Saints"
(forgetting the F).I am not Mormon. But you better get the wheels
moving in your hdquarters in Salt Lake City, Mormons, and put out a release
nationwide, distancing yourself from this mess. Choice is yours.(I
know, from person experience, that there are polygamists in Utah county and so
forth, but they are not fLDS. They are LDS. They are not part of the Texas
compound so get'em and straighten out the national media.)
Some of these women know that something is wrong, but don't know what to do
about it. We help people all around the world to find democracy so we should
help people in our own country that have been restricted do the same. If they
don't like it they can go back, but young women should not be forced like they
Over four hundred children and women taken into custody to receive help! Praise
be! The primary purpose in this community of young girls and women are to bare
children and to obey their husbands. Finally, we are in the 21st century with
justice for all! Utah should follow suit.
wHAT HAS ALL THIS TO DO WITH THE WORDS OF jESUS.tHEY HAVE PERVERTED THEIR
RELIGION INTO SOME SORT OF SEX ORIENTED SOCIETY WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH
Did the women and children leave the ranch willingly or were they torn away from
their homes? Do they feel "rescued"? Are the women and children thanking the
officials? Something is fishy with this so-called "rescue"...
Ah yes, the famed Texas justice...pillar of honesty, integrity, understanding,
and model of the penal system. Home of James Byrd, who was drug behind a pickup
truck for being black...I love the great state of Texas.
DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT A MEMBER OF LDS IN ANYWAY NOR AM I (WHITE) A WHITE
NATIONALIST/SOCIALIST; NOR A MEMBER OF ANY TYPE OF WHITE CHRISTIAN IDENTITY, NEO
NAZI OR KKK TYPE OF ORGANIZATION, NOR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. I AM A BLACK
NATIONALIST, PAN-AFRICAN; HOWEVER, I RECOGNIZE AN INJUSTICE AND A CRIME; AND
I SIDE WITH THE TRUTH AND JUSTICE NO MATTER WHAT THE COLOR OF THE VICTIM(S)
IS(/ARE. ) IAM DR-AM.
PART1. Never forget "WACO," they alleged the same thing against David Koresh
then the 16 year old girls mother and the girl who both left the sect at a
hearing years after the raid, argued that the marriage was consensual . And in
Texas at that time the law was "14 years old" for marriage under parental
consent. However, pedophilia is a crime and I feel that a pedophile deserves
death. But both the parents and children of the (LDS) are the actual victims of
a crime here but not by their sect but by their captors i.e. the Government made
up an imaginary 16-year-old girl to performed an illegal raid, based on a
fraudulent-premise-warrant then kidnapped nearly 200 children; thats a crime and
you all need to stand up! How can you get a warrant or have a raid based on an
imaginary person? The alleged 16 year old hasnt been found and does not exist.
great job at keeping the media out. we dont need any hysteria created by the
liberal press. great work by the local and federal police as well.
someone saved those kids by doing that. endoctrination is wrong religion should
be a personal choice not forced apon younow those kids might have a chance to
see what type of life they would want to have instaed of being told
If Texas is serious about finding this person, why haven't they put out a
Very heartfelt and touching. I couldn't agree with you more! You are making a
Have anyone think of praying for those girls and their families? My father was
40 and my mom was 14 when I was born. Even after his death; it took me a long
time to forgive him. These young girls are being raped over and over again, I
call is abuse, because their brain are not fully develop to understand what is
happening to them.The mean of transportion should not even be an issue;
the exodus should be praised. I hope and pray the find the one who made the
My children will go to school tomorrow and uneducated people will think they are
a part of this group.. Real Mormons would not break the law or marry more than
one wife. They also do not marry children. I am sad that this group calls
themselves mormons because they are not apart of my church and the paper saying
about this happening the weekend of our conference it is our conference not
theirs. We are in no way connected.
This has nothing to do with the goverment interefering in religion,the
intereference is because this is a cult an there are women and children who are
being manipulated by these sick men. I hope they ivestigate this thoroughly and
any individuals that commited crimes against anyone is held accountable.
THANK YOU KAY :))You said it all! The truth is the truth and you reveled
it truthfully and well on here. Thanks!
After spending some time investigating these communes (I did a paper in college)
and actually visited one and interviewed a few people who had left, I came to
the understanding that these 'adults' view children as property. They don't view
them like an average family, they are created for them to do with...whatever
they choose. They want to manipulate, use scare tactics and most of the men are
nothing more than glorified pedophiles. Sad thing is if you are born into this
as a male, when you turn 14 if there are too many of you, you will be sent away.
Got to keep those young females for all the old dirty men on board who hide
behind religion. Its a sick practice that these folks still get away with. Its
brainwashing, and since its all quietly wrapped up in religion, people tend to
just look the other way. Think...Jim Jones and his followers and you can see how
it happens. I'm glad the authorities stepped in and hopefully will give these
kids some very much needed therapy. They will need it.
It is about time someone with real power decided to do something about this
criminal org. They have abused girls and they have abused America's welfare
program.We are a nation for FREEDOM of religion, but we DO NOT use
the FREEDOM to abuse others. And a religion should not on welfare checks, this
is sick.I hope all the things they discover will push the US
Goverment to go to Colorado City, Utah. If the state goverment will not do
anything, the US Goverment needs to get the job done. Or, maybe Texas could
invade Utah to resue those Utah have turned their back on.
The 16 year old girl who called 911 had a baby 8 months ago when she was only
15. She said the father was Dale Barlow, her 50 year polygamist husband whom
she was forced to marry at age 15. In Texas 15 year olds cannot marry even with
parental consent. That is how authorities convinced a judge to give the search
These people are NOT Mormons - not in any sense of the word and they should not
use the name of the Church that rejects their ways. It makes it look as if they
are close in nature to the Mormon church but they are not at all close. They
are hugely different.
Reports here in Texas tonight are that a significant number of the removed
female juveniles are pregnant...
Please be clear here, I suspect that any child under the age of 3 years left
with her mother during this CDC raid. Texas is not the cruel state that some of
you think we are.The train -- so to speak -- must end somewhere and
it will here in Texas. Our justice system will ensure that no child, whether
male or female, and no spouse, male or female, will be abused, mentally,
physically, or emotionally.GO TEXAS!!!!!
Crimes against children are the hardest to bear. Our law enforcement people
should do all they can to protect our under-age youngsters from coercion, sexual
exploitation, forced sex, pregnancy, and for "surplus" boys, abandonment.
It is not live and let live. If you are inpregnated and you are under age it is
RAPE, plain and simple. It is Rape because you are not old enough to say yes.
Also parents arrange Marriages which if there is more then one wife is not legal
cult okeyed or not to the highest bidding old creep. I hope if it was me I would
cross my knees and take my whiping. Then get me and my black and blue marks out
of there. If he did get me I would hope to hold it till I could get somewhere,
where they could get a Rape Kit and do DNA. However kids are scared and do not
think like that and there is also the teachings that what is happening to them
is right. The live and let lives and the people that want these kids returned to
their familys are sick. If you know about it and do not do anything about it you
are part of it. The Gov. has learned a lot since Waco. Waco got out of hand with
a real crazy lady in charge.
Did Warren Jeffs do any thing that Joseph Smirh didn't do? This was a way of
life with the early mormons.
It is disgusting that men from the fLDS use women and children for some sick
narcissitc game. They torment these poor women and children with lies about
"missing" heaven. Joseph Smith is NOT ruling some plant right now- WAKE UP
PEOPLE! These children never have a chance- they are not allowed to EVEN think
for themselves. I for one am glad that my tax dollars are FINALLY going toward
something productive for the fLDS and not just turing a deaf ear. If these kids
grow up in a normal society where they are FREE to choose a religion and then
decide that Mormonism is RIGHT for them- then so be it. The way their system
works now they are treated like farm animals- and their souls are held over them
by money-hungry perverts!THINK for yourself!!!And I agree with
Robert from an earlier comment- the Mormon church does need to help- but they
are so deep "in bed" with them (business deals) that they lay low.
Yall Know I really feel very sorry for the polygamist women. This isnt their
fault that a bunch of old geezers got together and made a religion around
polygamy. Its quite heartbreaking that this kind of stuff goes on in AMERICA The
Land Of The Free??? Im just wondering what part of this life style is FREE for
these women. This extremely sad and ever bit as bad as slavery. Women do feel
pain, hurt, and loneliness just as men do. And are extremely intelligent human
beings. Dont mean to bust any bubbles on here but some are much smarter than
men.All the inbreeding that goes on in these cults is taking a horrible
affect on these people.
Folks, this is merely a snapshot of what early mormonism looked like. Doesn't
really matter if it is no longer practiced. This is what early mormons claimed
was commanded of God.
Typical, don't condone it, but never condemn it.
While Emma suffered physical deprivation, harassment, and mob violence in New
York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Missouri, the emotional and spiritual challenges
she experienced in Nauvoo, Illinois, where the Church finally established
itself, In the relative stability of Nauvoo, Joseph would try to establish
polygamy, a practice he had flirted with in Kirtland and Missouri. Between the
years 1841 and 1843, Joseph would marry more than thirty wives. He kept the
practice veiled from the public and from his wife, Emma. When she discovered
that he was taking additional wives, she struggled to accept it. Joseph
received a revelation regarding this new and everlasting covenant of plural
marriage, part of which was directed at Emma: Poor Emma, she didnt have a
chance in a mans world.
Back at the H. C. Kimball home, Joseph spoke to Emily: I cannot tell all Joseph
said, but he said the Lord had commanded [him] to enter into plural
marriage and had given me to him and although I had got badly frightened he knew
I would yet have him...Well I was married there and then. Joseph went home his
way and I going my way alone. A strange way of getting married wasent it?
Although they did not spend their wedding night together, Emily said she slept
with Joseph on other occasions. Josephs property caretaker in Macedonia,
Benjamin Johnson, remembers the couple traveling there, The prophet...Came
and...ocupied the Same Room & Bed with...the Daughter of the Late Bishop
this is what happens when you move from an area where this sort of stuff has
been condoned for so long giving a false sense that such stupid practices can
continue elsewhere. Not in my backyard anymore! Pretty soon I'll have to move
away like before from an area where there was too much inbreeding here in Utah
due to this practice and that is history!
to see how many of you are denying that it was a good thing that these kids were
removed. Here's what you do. Google "FLDS" and read all about the
horrifying FLDS beliefs. Did you know that Warren Jeffs said that
laughter drives the Spirit from your body? Did you know that Carolyn Jessop, at
a young age, learned that she was to be married (two days before the arranged
wedding) to a 50-year-old man -- then had eight kids in fifteen years, even
though she had birth problems? Did you know little girls were becoming the
fifth wives of old geezers and becoming pregnant right away? Did you know that
boys will be expelled from the community because there aren't enough girls to go
around? The list goes on . . .And don't get started on the rivalry
that must go on between the poor wives for the husband's attention . . .
"leroy | 6:58 a.m. Apr. 5, 2008I don't understand the use of the
First Baptist Church buses. Why not real, secular buses? School buses, for
example.What is the excuse for using the Baptist buses?And
please don't say because they were available or volunteered. This is a criminal
action and as such the FBC buses should not have been used. The police do not
have the funds to rent secular buses?Something fishy here.Yes, I am a Christian, but the buses should not have been from a denomination.
Wrong. The buses should have been secular, school buses, etc."There's something 'fishy' about borrowing church buses to transport children
away from a potential crime scene? Maybe Mitt Romney's RV wasn't available?Brother, if you're a Christian, then you know that denominations mean
nothing, so long as the scripture is being followed. Can't imagine this
upsetting anyone, really, unless they're just wanting to be upset.I'm guessing there is a good chance some of the officers involved were also
Book of Mormon witness, Oliver Cowdery, felt the relationship was something
other than a marriage. He referred to it as A dirty, nasty, filthy affair...
To calm rumors regarding Fannys relationship with Joseph, the church quickly
adopted a Chapter of Rules for Marriage among the Saints, which declared,
Inasmuch as this church of Christ has been reproached with...polygamy; we
declare that we believe, that one man should have one wife... This Article on
Marriage was canonized and published in the Doctrine & Covenants. In 1852, the
doctrine of polygamy was publicly announced, thus ending eighteen years of
secret practice. The Article on Marriage became obsolete and was later removed.
Everybody has heard CPS horror stories, but the probable existence of child
abuse in this community and its affiliates has now been documented. If these
children had normal contacts with the outside world--to be educated on what
abuse is and be able to report it, there wouldn't be the need to remove them to
determine whether or not they are safe. Until the FLDS community stops raising
their children like prisoners with no contact with the outside world, the state
will need to intervene whenever reasonable suspicion leads to concern about the
safety of the children. A 16yo girl who has an 8-month old baby
probably wasn't 16 when she conceived. And, what 15 or 16 year old girl wants
to VOLUNTARILY marry and have sex with a 50 year old man? One more
thing: From what I'm reading here, if there was a 6-month baby removed, there's
a good possibility the baby's mother is underage herself and was also removed,
so I wouldn't assume an infant has been separated from its mother.
Who said the government can't wipe out a religion? Too bad it doesn't turn its
attention on eradication of Islam in the US.
The LDS church is not responsible for apostates and excommunicated members who
have left the main body of the church to go out and indulge in polygamy, nor is
it the fault of the LDS church that people still indulge in oneself and
gratification for woman--No way shape or form! It was the decision of these men
to go out and brainwash woman.
What about Fanny Alger? She was only 15 when she became the prophet's wife.Polygamy has a long and glorious tradition among the Mormons.Because they started it, the main Mormon Church should pay for all the
crackdowns on polygamy today. They should pay for counseling for these children.
They should pay for the law enforcement costs. They should take responsibility
for what they started.
Thank goodness the Baptist buses were available. At least they were willing to
be helpful in this dreadful case of abuse. They came to the rescue of these
children. They will find out more later on who can and cannot be returned to
their mothers. The authorities did the right thing just in case there is
extensive abuse going on within this compound and these kids. They had no other
Abuse is abuse. Children are not capable of stopping ABUSE. However you want
to define what has happend, truth is, their practices are against the law of the
land. The abuse of children does not always mean physical abuse, but poverty is
abusive to children. Let's keep focused on the abuse of women and children not
what bus came to get them.
Are you serious? No doubt they rounded up buses that were available to them on
short notice. Who cares where the buses came from? Are you afraid some Baptist
Devil is at the wheel? Get a grip. The bus comments are the most
inane on this thread.
Where can one find a photo of Dale Barlow?
The Mormon church does not condone polygamy any longer. Go read what our Prophet
Gordon B Hinckley had to say about it. You cannot blame the church for this
problem. They new better and gave up the practice over a hundred years ago. The
Prophet had revelation and said; NO MORE, BOYS! Ladies also became a bit happier
knowing this. There was nothing worse than sharing a man. People back then
didn't think about sexually transmitted diseases. Although, They did happened!
I see the pligs are out in force...screaming over government abuses and freedom
of religion. Why would you want to live in a country that curbs your religious
freedom to have sex with underage girls? Take your case to the Supreme Court
and beg for mercy. Reality bites! Like all the rest of us in this country, in
the end you either submit to the law or be ready and willing to pay the price.
I don't know about(or care about) you all, but my ammo stockpile is going to
become a LOT bigger. Pay attention, you could be next due to a random phone call
from someone. The ZOG has overstepped it's bounds again. It is time for some
purging in the government.
Some would choose to ignore this problem. This is quite selfish and insane.
These woman do not know how to help themselves. They are all so beaten down
mentally they don't know whats up or down. Only that they have children and need
HELP! Don't ignore them...HELP THEM!
The Texas authorities will determine whether or not the pregnant 16 yr old is
legally married to the 50 yr old with parental consent, but come on folks. If
hes 50, she is more than likely not his first wife. Everyone knows that the
polygamists escape bigamy laws by marrying only one wife legally. The 50 yr old
will not have any legal protection under marriage laws, since there was probably
no legal marriage. If he had sex with the 16 yr old (consensual or otherwise),
he is going to be prosecuted...The authorities dont care about non-legal
spiritual ceremonies.I cant agree that the authorities should mind
their own business. The patriarchal polygamists have brought this down on
themselves by having sex with underage girls. They may have found a loophole to
escape bigamy laws, but they set themselves up to be prosecuted as
pedophiles.Way to go Texas! Now if only Utah could take a
I am so tired of hearing about this group marrying off these young girls who are
so confused as to what is right and wrong. One woman called and alleged that
absuive practices were taking place. After investigating, all of the other
girls mentioned were removed. The media was likely kept away b/c of the large #
of underage children being transported. I can't stand this disgusting practice
of marrying a 16 yr old to a 50 yr old!!! Give me a break! Let these women
have a chance at a normal life with normal and natural physical relationships
with someone they chose and love. Enough of this brainwashing crap!
Doesn't anyone find it ironic that they were in Tom Green County.
Let me start off by saying, I don't practice polygamy, nor do I approve of it.
I believe in the constitution of this country and in the freedom of
religion. If consenting adults want to marry in any fashion they would like, I
see no problem with it. If those adults have children, then thats thier God
given right. If the children are abused then take them away. But
please remember, by blanketly taking away thier children to sort out the facts
later, is wrong.If the "authorities" come back with the Baptist
Church buses and try to round up more of the abused, please remember what you
are doing affects families in ways that causes suffering. If its necessary,
then great, go ahead. But please use discretion and don't let this escalate to
more than just protection of children.
According to Texas state law, a girl younger than 17 cannot consent to have sex
unless her partner is less than three years older than she, or she is married.
Girls younger than 16, however, cannot be married, even with parental consent,
and according to the birth date listed in the warrant, the girl was only 15 when
she gave birth.
>>I am not sure what the correct way to handle this situation is.
Yes you can take them if they are endangered, proof is they just went and did
it. Leaving the Group is the exception rather then the rule. That takes strength
and courage. Some do not have as much of that as they may need. Also the Brain
washing and False Teaching. After the first child is born just what are you
going to do. If someone is going to rescue you what is going to be the cost to
you and to them, or to you from them. The threat of being returned can hang
heavy one a person still under 18. Or over 18 with no place to go for that
matter. If a community to include the Police Force tolerates lawlessness then
when the Law comes and it will come, they have no complaint.
This is the reason those people are so secretive. It is because they are afraid
of the government taking away there children. On average people should just mind
there buisness, but this poor girl was asking for help.... but why did they have
to take all those children away?? Does anyone have any IDEA what that does to
little children... even up to the age of 17? I left warren jeffs group 1 year
ago and Its been like going through HELL!! and yes.. i have been through very
similar experiences. I understand how it effects people.
This is a good thing, a very good thing. I just wonder why they picked the
Weekend of LDS General Conference to do it. Or was that not a consideration. I
would like to think it was not. There is really nothing wrong with the practice
other then it is not legal, but if you involve Minor Children under the age of
18, it needs to be stopped. What they do is Telabanish in its nature and
repression of women. Sexual, Educational, Personal, etc. In America we don't
snip, we don't cover and we don't repress women. We must stop Abortion but that
is a separate issue. This has to do with basic freedoms of which these people
are deprived. The Law, trumps Culture and Religion. Enforcement of the Law is
sometimes hard to come by, however a little enforcement is never to little or to
late. Good Job, I hope as many preps as possible get go to jail for as long as
I read in another newspaper that originally it was mostly girls removed, but
then a judge ordered the removal of ALL the children - thus the reported
disparity in numbersAs for the 16 yr old calling authorities about
abuse. She had a 8 month old baby, which means when she got pregnant, she was
not 16. That makes it rape.The article also stated that there were a
number of underage girls pregnant. This is not religious persecution, this is
the law dealing with rapists and removing all children until they identify those
rapists is responsible. Way to go Texas!!
Do I need to state the obvious? FLDS is NOTHING like the LDS church in this time
If you think ploygamy is not abuse you are 1. a female polygamist who is not
allowed to think or say what you think. 2. a male polygamist (or wannabe) who is
a power monger and doesn't want to give it up. 3. uninformed. I think it would
have been much better to move educators and law inforcement into the compound
and to require education and to be there to hear complaints. I also believe
that the state taking children is terrible (as in terrorist) Freedom of
religion does not include the right to enslave others.
The questions about polygamy and its adherents has never been about their legal
right to believe whatever they wish, but rather focused upon their desire to do
anything they want in the name of their beliefs.Polygamists live
under the law and the prosecution of polygamists that break the law is not
persecution, its justice.
It all comes down to one thing folks! Polygamy is abusive and hurtful. Those who
defend it are the perpetrators and so of course these same people will see
nothing wrong with the abuse that they inflict upon woman and
children...brainwashing is totally acceptable. Times have changed though, now
women are no longer slaves to their husbands. We have finely realized in modern
times that woman have brains as do men. This is quit devastating to the local
I can't beleive this is the way God wants families to be.Sounds like breeding
farms to me.Next lets clean up the British Columbia breeding farm.
I suspect the kid was "crying wolf" in this situation. Probabley didn't like
getting grounded so called the police. This is scary for all parents. If your
kid does not like their punishment, call the police! They'll come and clear your
house out without any evidence. The Texan authorities should be ashamed.
6 month old babies were taken!?!Return the babies to their mothers
right now! That is outrageous. And don't you dare tell me that a 6 month old
was at risk of abuse. This is a travesty of justice.If teenage
girls are being forced into marriage and sexual relations, then remove them to
safety, but the state has no right to take a baby away from a mother. They were
probably all still nursing infants. What reparations will the state pay for the
emotional trauma inflicted on these tiny children?Get a clue! do
the right thing, not the tyrannical thing.
Though it may look like civil rights are being violated the state of Texas has
an obligation to investigate these charges. The FLDS indoctrinate their children
very early on to fear the outside world and federal govt. I think that the
taking of all children and having them talk to trained therapists that
specialize in brainwashing may be beneficial. Why give the FLDS a chance to ship
off their other underage girls? While it may seem unpalatable for a 50 year old
to marry a 16 year old the FLDS believe that a man that produces many children
goes to a higher place. The more offspring the higher he goes and this is a
womans' only purpose. Most of these 16 year olds are not "legal" wives but FLDS
joined. This makes all of those 50 year olds rapists. Many of these 16 year olds
receive welfare for mothers and children and guess who pays that bill? So go
ahead and practice your religion but obey the laws that protect all citizens,
including your children.
It's time for the new Mormons to step up to the plate and straighten out the old
Mormons.It's God's way, isn't it?
Don't accuse when you don't know the truth.Some of you don't realy know
what it is likeyou just believe lies!
What a joke. There's a right way and a wrong way to do something. This is not
even close to the right way. I think Texas is way over stepping their bounds.
They've always claimed they wanted to be their own country, but the feds need to
step in and remind them that the people of Texas too have their rights. You CAN
NOT take away 167 children (yes, this number is correct. They have gone back to
get the rest of the girls and the boys too.) from their homes because one girl
called and reported abuse upon herself by one man. Arrest the man! Leave the
children alone. All you religious intolerant bigots, go read your bible and
practice the teachings of our Savior!
Looks like a few BOW WOW'S are joining in on the big bark on here and defending
all the Lies, abuse and criminal behavior of these cultist who comment crimes in
the name of God.
When I was a teenager my friend married a young man that had run away from this
group in Utah. His mother had been forced to marry a much older man at the age
of thirteen against her will. I couldn't understand why the law didn't help
children like her. On the other hand it is disturbing and causes me concern
that they would take all these children away from parents instead of looking at
individual cases. I know it's likely we don't have all the information the
police have, but I do believe it better to err on the side of parents and
families then to rip families apart on assumptions and accusations. That being
said, something has needed to be done for a long, long time about abuses going
After reading all of the posts, in support of 15 year old brides, it's easy to
see why polygamy has prospered for so long, here in Utah!
I know it can be confusing but this group in Texas is NOT members of the Church
of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints aka the LDS or Mormon (nickname)church.
Please don't confuse the two.
I think everyone here is for protecting kids. I really do not see how it is
possible to remove 6 month old babies from the moms. It is a little creepy that
we as a nation have given up so many rights and liberties. I am not sure what
the correct way to handle this situation is. I do know however that removing
children that young from there moms will never be the correct way to handle it.
God help us that we are not in the same boat one day when we fall on
the other side of the line and they try to remove our kids. The abuse needs to
stop!! How hard is it to have these kids wait until they are older! This is
just not the correct way to handle it. We can never use a Hitler/Nazi approach
and consider ourselves Americans! I know this is a little extreme but what is
next...I am now responsible to make sure my neighbor of the same belief is not
doing anything illegal so I dont lose my kids??
This is Government interfearanceRead the words RAID and Comindeared
BussesThis is out right kid naping in the name of the STATEYou have
no IDEA the DAMAGE these people are doing to the CHILDRENUtahs AT is a
JERK as well
Its very interesting that the government wants to "save" everybody there by
forcing them to leave their homes and live the way they think they should when
thats the very thing that the polygamist are being accused of. In reality they
dont want "saved".
I agree with Robert...the Mormon Church, I mean the mainline Mormon Church
should step up to the plate and provide some financial support for these kids
because they are the ones that started polygamy in Utah.
I saw many comments on the 6 month old baby being taken from its mother. I
wonder if that baby's mother was among the young girls taken from the compound.
As for the 16 year old who had a baby, it's quite possible that when she was
"married", she was not yet 16, and that's why authorities are investigating.
Finally. I have seen news of this place for quite some time now and I am amazed
that it took so long for the Law to do something about it. These children have
been forced into slavery and for anybody to think that it's ok in any religion
is sick. If your next door neighbor got his own daughter or any young girl
pregnant for that matter, he should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
I just can't for the life of me believe that these children were doing this on
their own free will. If you have any decency at all, just take a look at some of
these people, they all have features that look similar to each other and that to
me is a very good sign of incest. I think every man and woman that is there
should have to give DNA samples to verify who is the actual parents of all these
children and they should be prosecuted if it is determined that adults haved
RAPED these children. CONSENT, who in their right mind would give consent for
their 16 yr old daughter to marry a 50 yr old man.
Oh how said they are :(
What's the problem?This is the way it was in the good ol' days
Send them to there family im sad they have no mother with them how crazy are
those bullys to take away 6 moth old babys! thats so crazy!
The best way to get rid of illegal polygamous activity is to take away the
Children.They are doing a good job of that. I'll put money on the
fact that these Kids will Not go back to their parents like in 1953 Raid,
because, Everyone knows polygamy is illegal, and a court could easily,
especially a Texas (Baptist) Court could easily prove that it is a Poor and
Abusive living environment for a Child to be reared in.Or.... is
Utah the only State of the "Union" where Polygamy is illegal?I'll
bet they are .... exercising their "Texas Constitutional right" to be Plygs over
there.Kudo's to the Baptist Church of Texas!I knew there were
some Balancing Scales somewhere in America!
Something you would expect to see in Nazi Germany.
Everything I know or have heard about polygamy and these communities is
horrible. I am repulsed by it.On the other hand----If
someone on my street is in trouble with the law I would be outraged to find that
the police had the right to come to my house or any other house in town and take
the children away.This is horrible. I am repulsed by it.
This is the reason that those people are so secretive. They are scared to death
that the government would take their children away. When there is one complaint
you can't just clear the entire community of all their children.I left
Warren Jeff's group 4 years ago and this just makes me sick! Growing up I was
always scared that the government would take me away from my family.
As I stare at the different methods of dress, hair styles and "team" buying
groups I wonder how bad can it really be. I begin to shake my head in judgement,
believing that abuse is common in the polygamist community. I have personally
known and visited with many who participate, have participated and rejected the
life style. The reality hits, the polygamist community has far fewer mis deeds
and abuse that the rest of society. The same arrogant judges who think they know
best hide many imperfections and disgusting habits. It is high time we create a
"Citizen Protection Service" to guard us from the abuses of government. Let
he/she without sin cast the first stone!
Take them to short Creek!
The mormon church needs to help these people they are mormons and their
situation is not so different than what the mormons knew in Missouri.
Are you an American or a Soviet?This was a step by the government to
break apart a religion.
You said"Most Texans are Christian and aren't as likely to look the other
way when it comes to polygamy like folks in Utah are."Where do you
think the polygamists get the idea of doing polygamy? It comes from the Bible.
Many of gods great prophets lived polygamy and this is how the polygamists
justify polygamy. ..... From the CHRISTIAN BIBLE.People are
always claiming to know what Christianity is all about without knowing the
facts, read the Bible and see what it really says.
even if the Law in Texas says you can get married at 16 with your parents
consent doesn't mean that you can be forced to be married theses people are sick
50 year old man to a 16 year old i bet she was all for that.freedom of religion
are you kidding me no wonder the men like it new wife when old one gets old nice
try flds church sick sick sick
Go Texas! We knew we could count on you to save those kids. Freedom of
religion doesn't include breaking the law and enslaving people. Freedom of
religion was never intended to be a cloak for every aberrant desire anybody ever
Just because parents gave their consent does not mean that the marriages weren't
performed against the girls will. It is about time that some one stood up for
the right of children to be children and take them out of an abusive
Weird, I thought states like Texas approved of things like Incest. Waco was really bad PR. So Kudos to the cops for keepin it clean this time.Baptist buses?!?! They should have used Tractor trailers, the lack of
windows would have protected them from being exposed to the outside world too
soon.The cops should work out a deal with Apple and get each of
these kids an ipod and an imac (and a myspace profile) this will really help
them assimilate. Jeff Foxworthy I mean warren batty er whatever his
name is should be brought to a Vet and euthanized. If you want your own private
Club purchase an island and leave the country, or be more discreet about it.God doesnt like competition and Neither does the Government.
Freedom of religion for this group is rape and conspiracy to rape. All the
parents should be prosecuted for obstruction of justice and conspiracy.
Yes it was 52 not 167. I am not sure where Deseret News got that number.
I am glad they raided this place,this places compunds that are secretive and
controlling are dangerous. It is a shame that it took this long to get inside
and see what is going on. These cults are dangerous and sick and need to be
investigated for crimes like this. Religion is a good thing but it can become a
problem when it is twisted.
Perhaps the only way to stop this perveted life style is to take all their kids
away.I'm not talking about pologamy, but these people kick their
sons out of the house at 12 years old to make room for the other half that isn't
kick out, so all can live pologamy.They "prophet" can and does
disolve a marriage and assign the entire family to someone else.This
type of perversion has to stop.
I don't know how anyone could say the CPS is evil when they are trying to help
children in a bad situation. Let's face it. We don't know the whole truth so it
is kinda hard to speculate either way.
In a small town who had school buses out transporting their children back and
forth to school, did anyone stop to think that was the only available means for
such a large amount at that particular point and time. Please, don't turn this
into a religious fight against Christians and the world. The government had a
complaint, they acted on it and everyone can deal the best they know how.
Children need to be protected not sensationalized by the media perhaps that is
why road and airspace was denied. They don't need to be double victimized by
sight seers, media, and just plain nosy bodies. Calm down everyone and realize
everyone is hurting, children, their families and all involved. Please
recognize that this is a very touchy, sticky and in some instances no win
situation for anyone. Children have to be protected, religion has to be
respected on all sides.
Drive by kidnapping...what does it profit to have no Prophet..i mean what ever
happened to negotiations..? Where's the intelligence or is it some kind of
frenzy..at the expense of the most vulnerable of this group? Can't anyone hear
the wailing of the children?
Sensitive issues and interesting viewpoints. It DOES seem that this
interdiction should be monitored at the Federal level. Indeed, if the "issues"
in the background of this YFZ situation are issues at all, they should apply to
those compounds in Arizona and Utah. But before the Federales clean up, they
should be required to make a good case to US citizens as to who/why/what they
are trying to protect.
As usual the perverted minds always make their ways onto these sites. I'm happy
that the law is investigating these law breakers... long time past due. God help
and rescue the children from these bizarre practices of brainwashing sexual
abuse. From someone who knows how twisted polygamy really is.
Leroy, you say you don't understand about using Baptist buses. If
there had been a flood and people out of their homes, would you understand if
the Baptist Church set up a dining room to feed the victims of the flood?Then it should be easy to understand that the Baptist Church buses were
used to protect all the boys and girls (victims) . Taking the children was not
a criminal proceeding, it was a rescue. "So it is not the will of your Father
in heaven that one of these little ones should be lost." Matthew 18:14
D&C 121:39. Six-month-old babies torn from their mothers' arms -- because one
unrelated teenager from another family altogether claimed abuse. How is this
reasonable? How is this anything other than evil?
They shouldn't use LDS stake centers or ward houses as command posts either.
These posts are illuminating. I guess the FLDS have a lot of sympathizers in
I don't entirely agree with what they're doing.....
hey plgkid It is abuse when a 50 year old man so called marries a 16 year
old,and has sex with her. She is underaged and as only a teenager she can't
possibly avoid her situation because the adults as carnal minded as they are,
are in charge.
Once again DesNews' own Ben Winslow presents us with a fact-finding look at a
situation wherein he has had experience writing the facts and relating the
situation. I am appreciative to Mr. Winslow for his cogent presentation of the
facts in this developing drama, balanced with his obvious care in remaining
neutral and non-judgemental toward these people. I have followed this story from
its inception, and am impressed with Mr. Winslow's care to present and explain
both sides, as far as can be done, since we actually have no input yet from the
FLDS people, themselves. I would also like to commend the Texas Child Protective
Services for their care of the minor children, and to the residents of the FLDS
community for their cooperation with the authorities, and to the Texas
Department of Public Safety for their sensitivity to the feelings of these
To me it is a scary thought that so many children could be taken from the one
place that they know as home. On the other hand, how does one make sure that the
kids' safety is secure?Surely there was a better way to do this.
Both sides must have come to an agreement. Hasty actions in government almost
always leads to poor judgment and negative consequences. Taking a six month old
baby from her mother? Give me a break!
John, remember Waco?The FLDS church also has a stockpile of weapons and
vowed not to go down without a fight.In the end, they did go peacfully,
Thank God for that.
In Texas, it is legal to marry at 16 with parental consent. Of
course we don't know if it was a legal marriage, or if it occurred in Texas to
begin with. It may have been a forced marriage. In any case, it seems pretty
messed up for a 16 year old girl to be married to a 50 year old man. I'm just curious why this is cited as a reason to go investigate. Is it
standard for police in Texas to go investigate things that aren't illegal?
Perhaps she was the only 16 year old to give birth in Texas? Of
course, the Texas Department of State Health Services says the 1 in 27 16 year
old girls there gets pregnant. The site also states, that in Texas, a a teen
give birth every 10 minutes. The police must be pretty busy
investigating all of the 16 year old girls who get pregnant. They
cite a claim from a 16 year old alleging sexual abuse. This is absolutely
something to investigate; however, it isn't the first reason cited in the
article.Maybe it's the same girl? Of course you wouldn't know that
from the reporting.
It has long been known, that the best way to truly break a people is to go
after their children. After the Civil War, Churches began founding Indian
Schools with the purpose of educating the "ignorant savage" on the ways of a
"civilized society." For decades after this, children were removed from their
families, often with threats or force. Anyone who knows how this decimated the
Native Americans for the next one hundred years will know what the potential is
to break these polygamous societies. For any culture in the world, to say
that their children are their future, would be to make a gross understatement.
Without the next generation to replace the previous one, that culture dies. If the Texas authorities received a call indicating the abuse of one or more
kids, then investigate those particular instances, don't attack the entire
community. Many of you would celebrate the demise of these people, arguing
about the lost boys, and the teenage brides. I can't defend that, but I feel a
sense of outrage over the deliberate attempt to smash all these families.
Remember there is a God who judges us, and remember your conscience before you
break these people.
Authorities in Texas got a call on Monday and had warrants issued and served by
the end of the week. The children taken out of harm's way before the weekend.Hey, authorities in Utah and Arizona. Get a clue!!!
I'm sure glad there's freedom of religion in this country. Kinda reminds me of
the 1800s. At least they didn't go in this time with tanks and kill everyone.
I'm surprised Texas didn't bring in the tanks, fire bombs, and loud speakers
like during Wacco.
167? From a compound of 150 people total? Other news reports are stating that
52 kids were removed.I'm glad to see Texas officials moving in and
giving these kids a chance to get away from a life of brainwashing and abuse.
Open your home to foster children.
One alleged accusation of so-called "abuse", and they apparently take all the
girls from an entire religious community. This is a completely
ILLEGAL move by the US government to deny freedom of religion and persecute
those that resist humanist Progressivism. These government officials will now
force theirreligion of Progressivism on the girls.Note the
article says they were in an "insular" community. They were insulated from the
current culture. The bible plainly says do not be of the world, do not live like
So who will be first to speculate on the use of Baptist church buses to
transport these kids. Hmmmmm.
Love the photo showing a First Baptist Church bus involved in the raid. The
article says the bus was "commandeered", but the Baptist angle is
appropriate.The FLDS made a mistake by moving to Texas. Most Texans
are Christian and aren't as likely to look the other way when it comes to
polygamy like folks in Utah are.
why wasn't this under LDS News?
I have been waiting for something like this to finally happen. The children
there are abused, hassled, made to be mature at an immature age, and filled with
silly doctrines. I am glad those children were removed. Each will have a
chance at a normal, sexually free life, free from the FLDS church. I believe religions should be able to practice their beliefs, but inhumane
treatment cannot be ignored.
What do Deseret News has to use "Fundamentalist LDS Church", can't they use
something other than "LDS"?
Here it is, folks. 1953 Raid on Short Creek (modern day Colorado City, AZ and
Hildale, UT) all over again! And, like that time, it will prove once again to
be a public relations nightmare for the governments involved. Few men will be
arrested, tiny if any jail time for them, and who will suffer the most??? The
women and children who will be farmed out, forcefully and against their wills,
around the state and within 18 months, every last one of them will be back
together again with their husbands/fathers putting the pieces back together
again! Where they wanted to be all along in the first place!!!Idiots! Power mongers! Hypocrits!Just ONE MORE INSTANCE of RAPED
BY THE STATE!!!James JusticeReligious Freedom Fighter
Looks like the Texans aren't nearly as tolerant of plural marriage as we are
here in Utah.
From every child abused in this way...... THANK YOU.
I don't understand the use of the First Baptist Church buses. Why not real,
secular buses? School buses, for example.What is the excuse for using the
Baptist buses?And please don't say because they were available or
volunteered. This is a criminal action and as such the FBC buses should not
have been used. The police do not have the funds to rent secular buses?Something fishy here.Yes, I am a Christian, but the buses
should not have been from a denomination. Wrong. The buses should have been
secular, school buses, etc.
I'm confused. Texas law allows a 16yr old to marry with consent of a parent, so
why would a marriage between the 50yr old male and the 16yr old female be cause
for an investigation?Also, I find it disturbing that the police
blocked the roads leading to the compound and that the air space around the
ranch was restricted. We should never allow the police to operate in secrecy
that way. Who is responsible for preventing the media access to cover this
story, and why aren't the media up in arms over it?
that some law officials decided to get those kids out of there. I really hope
they can be placed with real loving and caring families and try to have a normal
Too bad our own attorney general Mark Shurtleff doesn't have the guts to give
these kids the same protection here in Utah.
CPS is the most evil organization to ever exist in this America. I am sure Satan
was looking down with a smile on his face as he saw those shiny police cars
roll out of the complex with these peoples stolen children.I highly
doubt they were being abused and even if they were it is unprecedented to remove
167 children from one community because of unfound allegations. This is
religious intolerance and it is bigoted and driven by prejudice at best. These
actions were no more about protecting the innocent than was WACO. Unfortunately,
the era of the climate is that most people looked on in glee as they heard news
that this religious sect was being punished once again. To those people I say,
just wait 'til it shows up at your doorstep. This is a slippery slope indeed.
Please don't be bigots! If there is abuse found (I mean abuse, not marriage)
prosecute. But don't believe the bull that we (even Warren Jeffs) sanction
abuse. We DON'T!
I feel so bad for the kids, this is horrifice. I hope that everything goes well
and everyone gets back safely to their families.
I was wondering when they were going to crack down on this!