DM: I forgive you the personal attack, as uncalled for as it was.There are any number of reasons why an officer of the law would choose to
handcuff a senior citizen. Let's set aside for a moment the fact that she
refused to comply with a reasonable (not to mention legal) request for
identification. She verbally abused the officer (and I would suspect she became
extremely belligerent) who actually appears to have employed much patience and
restraint. Someone who then flees without apparent cause could be going for a
weapon. That is a stretch, you say, but I would hazard a guess that you haven't
seen as much as this officer has.Given the previous offers to assist
her with her problem (including hauling all the unreasonable amounts of trash
off, as this wasn't just a case of dead grass) she had her chance and spat in
its face. Now that's not a honed legal opinion, but I'd say it deserves as much
consideration as DM's dairy consumption theory.
I worries me that so many of those who post comments speak so openly ignorant
when it comes to laws of the land. As I read over the comments, people see the
officer as being too strict when actually he was responding to yet another
neighbor's complaint after several warnings already. Orem City and it's police
dept. extended patience to Perry, she CHOSE not to heed the warnings and look
where it got her. As for the ignorant not knowing why you have to
identify yourself to a police officer. Listen closely as it may save you from
being physically arrested. When an officer has reasonable suspicion you
committed a crime (city ordinance or Utah State Law), regardless of your
location (private property or not) you are required by UTAH STATE LAW to provide
your name, date of birth, address and a explanation of your actions. If ya
dont' believe me look it up for yourself, you may learn something of value
besides posting your rants on the web. As a resident of Orem, I am
grateful to the police and the city prosecutors for doing their job even though
it wasn't the popular thing to do. Thanks!!!
As stupid as this particular law is, the fact is this lady did this to herself.
All the lady had to do was give the cop her name and it would have been all over
but instead, she freaked out. When I first read about this story, I was really
upset but then the more I thought about it, I realized that the lady was nuts
and brought it on herself and the only reason a cop would actually go to give a
ticket to someone for this minor infraction is because a neighbor called to
Flabbergasted: Not a case of some jackbooted thug with a badge abusing his
power? I'm glad I don't live in your home and glad I'm not your child or any
relation for that matter!Let's completely skip the idea of the lady
running away and hurting her own self. The simple fact that she was handcuffed
is degrading and disrespectful enough, even had she not been hurt.I'm sure that you're like the rest of those authority driven people that claim
she broke the law and got what she deserved. If that's the case, I would hate
to be you because when the day comes that you cry for mercy for all that you've
done wrong in your life, it will fall on deaf ears.For crying out
loud people, this whole thing started over a brown lawn. A BROWN LAWN!! You
act as if that's a major felony. It's not like she was dealing drugs or
soliciting prostitution. How merciless and how heartless can you be, especially
to a group of people, namely senior citizens, who deserve the utmost care and
respect?? Where is your sense of judgment in this issue?Wall
yourselves in and rename the city Berlin.
This has been decided in the courts numerous times and consistently ruled that
you do have the right to not identify yourself to police, but that refusal is
justification for the officer to suspect your are hiding something relevant to
the investigation and "Detain" you until he can complete his investigation.
(note "Detain" is NOT the same as "Arrest", doesn't have same requirements).
Google "Do I have to identify myself to police" and do some research
on your own.You may just be stubborn, but you may also be concealing
your identity because you have warrants, wanted for a seperate crime or you may
just want to mess with the cop, but he is withing his rights to detain you if
you conceal your identity or give false identification.I doubt AJ is
a legal scholar. Neither am I. Research it for yourself. Unless giving your
name is going to get you in BIGGER trouble, It's probably best to just give them
your name instead of running.People telling us, "You don't have to
tell nobody nuthin", will lead to more of these senseless incidents (ie
UHP-tazer-boy, brown-lawn-lady and others).
What I find amazing is that people forget she hurt herself--the officer did
nothing to her. The officer handcuffed her ONLY after she refused to give her
name and verbally abused him. Then she tried to run away and hurt herself.
This is not a case of some jackbooted thug with a badge abusing his power. The defense was very savvy about putting out that sort of misinformation
while the City of Orem, whether or not they were in the right to prosecute saved
it for the trial. That is the way it's supposed to be done.
Prove it. Not when your on private property.
By asking if those of us with opposing views have personally dealth with this
woman means that you have, correct? Because if you haven't personally dealt
with this woman then you are as guilty of speaking to that which we know nothing
as the rest of us. Or you are as justified voicing your opinion as the rest of
us. So, we all should shut up or all should speak up. Which choice would a
true American support?That said, how did you come up with the
$20,000+ figure? I suppose you are a real estate appraiser?
This was stupid... on one hand the cities ask us to conserve water and on the
other hand the attempt to fine us if we don't waste it. As for the riter who
asked "How we would feel if our neighbor didn't water their lawn?" Well I have
a neighbor who doesn't water their lawn, so I went and talked to them and found
that they cannot afford the water in Midvale. They have been out of work for
just over a year and have huge medical expenses for a child who was hurt in an
accident and are dealing with a crummy insurance co. So twice a week I drag my
hose over to their yard and water for them. I don't try to add to their misery.
But I know that is beyond the ability of most government.
You are wrong. It is law that you must give your name to an officer that
To all those who actually think the law is justified in this brown lawn case and
that absolute compliance to all laws should be observed 100% of the time, I
looked up stupid laws and found this one for Utah: It (apparently) is against
the law in Utah to NOT drink milk.Have you had your daily glass of
milk or do we need to have the police knock on your door so you can be
handcuffed, arrested and hauled off to jail for breaking the law?Have any of you thrown a snowball in Provo, ever? It's a $50 fine. Do you
need to get your wallets out and confess to a past crime? We've had plenty of
snow this year. I'm sure at least one of you has tossed some of it.Or let's stick with the current issue. What will you do if there's a drought
and you don't have the water to keep your own lawn green? Or what would you do
if your 95 year old grandfather had a financial crisis and couldnt afford to
water his lawn? Are you going to put his picture on a wanted poster? Get
Unbelievable!!! people do you realize this is a simple city ordinance that she
failed to meet. She didn't go out and break any laws. This is still america
where people can chose how to live and not be told what to do on their property!
And do you all remember she was pretty bruised up after the whole matter. I
would be scared to death if peace officers acted that way to me. Let us not
forget she was on her on personal private property. She doesn't have to tell
any one her name if she doesn't want too.
Perhaps what you are factoring in to your "pity the old woman" argument is...
She was warned. She was offered help with her yard. She declined to follow the
law. Yard care (or the lack of it) affects other land owners. You rights end
where mine begin.If she would have given her name the officer could
have handed her the ticket (even without a signature) and walked away.If
you have ever dealt with this woman personally... then speak up. If not you were
NOT there and do not have the training of a peace officer.When your
neighbors lack of yard care decreases the value of your property $20,000+ and
you have a hard time selling your property because of the neighbors yard... how
will YOU deal with it?
This poor lady is lucky theofficer didn't use his taser on her, as some of the
officers have done in the past. Oh , Iknow, they were found to be kustified in
doing so,,, by their own!!!
This lady is lucky that this goofy cop didn't use his tser on her. That would be
in keeping with some others in our law enforcement society. If they look at you
cross eyed, RSER them.This is abouttheir mentality.
"..failing to obey his commands..""..follow the law in the first
place..""..she has to obey the law.."I am happy that each one
of you justifying this have not ever been pulled over for any sort of violation
and been let off with a simple warning. Break the law = get a ticket. Because
that would be hypocritical and none of you can be accused of such behavior.
Right? And if you have been pulled over and the officer was going
to let you off with a warning you told him (or her), "No, give me the ticket...I
broke the law".One word to you all: BAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaa.
I wonder how long most people here would tolerate a neighbor who refused to
maintain their yard.Judging by the popularity of neighborhood
associations, I doubt there would be many.Everyone wants the police
to back off when they do something wrong, but throw the book at whomever offends
Why is it always the fault of the officer upholding the laws? She broke the law
and then resisted arrest but it's the officer that is being dragged over the
coals. Just like the officer that tazed the driver for failing to obey his
commands and resisting arrest by not providing his name. Fortumnantly clear
heads cleared the officers. Now if we can get the courts to protect officers
from frivilous lawsuits for doing their jobs!
When I first saw the details of the original event,I was
disbelieving,and when it was actually decided to PROSECUTE this poor woman,I
decided that there were no longer any offramps to that sorry city. This would
never have happened if the officer and city had had any good sense at all. Hope
you enjoyed all the bad press and court expenses you racked up proving your
inhumanity,Orem! You'll never see a penny of revenue from me again.
To MP, Do those initials mean Military Police?? This is the sort of thing that
would appeal to them.
Just wondering what is going to happen this coming summer if she lets her lawn
get brown again>
Long live Barney Fife and his wannabe's. . .
She was not arrested for a brown lawn, but for her failure to give her name, and
resisting arrest. If she were just to follow the law in the first place, this
would never have happened.
Arresting/handcuffing an elderly woman for having a brown lawn then to justify a
fine on top of it all???? C'mon people!! Is it any surprise that people around
the world think all Utahns are freaks?Please, please, please hire
Gloria Allred and sue the socks off those responsible for this atrocity and
spare the normal Utah citizens the reputation of having any association with
those behind this. The rest of us living in Utah would like to be thought of as
being civilized human beings and would like to separate ourselves from any ties
to these over-the-top nuts. Someone needs to set a legal precedent that you
dont go arresting senior citizens for not having watered their lawns. That has
to be the most disrespectful, disgusting, revolting abuse of authority Ive ever
heard.If that were my mother that had been handcuffed I would be
outraged. This is just plain sick!
I hope we can all just move on.
It appears that reasonable minds have prevailed in this situation, of if
anything, Perry has gotten off easy. Maybe she will learn that she has to obey
the law, even if she is elderly.
Puzzled at why so many of us think Utah County is weird? I'm surprised they
didn't also arrest Perry for her bad haircut. And I thought its
citizens loved liberty.