All criminal acts are rooted in hate.
Read all of your comments. Was this a hate crime? If it was damage committed
to private property that was rooted in bias towards a particular religon,
therefore YES it might be considered a hate crime. However until the perps are
caught you do not know for sure if bias was involved. If it is kids messing
around and used these words to deflect attention away from them then it isn't a
Hate Crime. Two considerations must determined before Hate Crime status can be
applied. 1- the victim's perception and 2 - the perps intent.
Question: What would Jesus do?Answer: Repaint the building with
love in his heart./Move along//Nothing to see here
We must take vandalizing of property as serious. If it turns out that it is also
a hate crime; in other words, that the building was vandalized BECAUSE it was a
Mormon owned building, then appropriate steps should be taken to educate the
perpetrator(s)(fines help). In order for the world where all people can live
together in peace, respect and tolerance must be actively taught by example as
well as by our words and laws.
when you are attacked for your beliefs it is hate, so this is a hate crime. now
the question is? If they were just kids, being ignorant what then, but if they
are young adults they know right from wrong, I am a member of the LDS church,
and was raised to respect people, obey the laws and if you do a crime you do the
time. No faith deserves to be treated like this. It is the signs of the times,
also I understand that there are less LDS people per capita in Utah then non
would any of you like graffiti spray painted on your house or building? I really
doubt it. It is a bunch of immature kids who are lost.
I wasn't aware that it was possible to commit a hate crime with the victim being
the LDS Church or a member of the LDS Church. For years and especially since
Mitt Romney's race for the presidency, Mormons have been vilified, marginalized,
threatened, and lied about with no repercussions. Evangelists claim to have the
right to define who's a Christian and who's not based upon the Roman conventions
300-400 AD, thusly Mormons are not. While many other New Testament Churches vary
from the conventions, one does not tread lightly upon their claims to be
Christian or not, and who would dare call an Islamic neighbor a member of a
terroristic group, while many so called followers of Christ on an everyday basis
call Mormons violent due to the MMM, so many years ago. The pope can get a new
face, no longer being linked to the Nazi supporting popes of the 1930s, but
Mormons must bear the scars of the actions of a murderous mob today. I
hope I'm still alive when the worm turns and members of the LDS find justice, in
place of extermination orders stated and unstated.
RE: "Art" who expresses himself as an enlightented individual as well as others
above think that the vandal painting on the wall is individual expression and
allowed by "Freedom of Speech". The Marxists in Chile between 1970 and 1973
believed that any rock, any house, any wall was fair game for paint in any form
of graffiti and free expression. It took an unfortunate revolution to clean up
the country and restore dignity to private property. It is unfortunate that in
the conflict between anarchy vs. law and order is an unequal and unfair fight,
because the government and people have to maintain a fair balance.
Seminary isn't part of or associated with public schools, roger. They are on
separate, church-owned property, and the parents have to sign a released-time
authorization for their children to leave the public school to attend private
seminary, and I bet you knew that already, didn't you? But, I see your point, We
wouldn't want our children to take time out of their day to be taught to have
high moral values, show respect for adults and each other, to be honest, to
serve others, to not lie, cheat, or steal, not do drugs, paint grafitti on other
people's property, and to do unto others as they would have others do unto them,
so they won't go into schools with trench coats and guns. No to teach our
children those things would be the downfall of society. Yes, that would be a
travesty. And to think seminary is voluntarily attended, and all paid for by
private, willing donors and not the taxpayer. That's just terrible, eh Rog?
LDS seminary should not be a part of or associated with public schools.
There are only 2 comments in the story about the LDS church. First, they are
cooperating with the investigation. And Second, that it would be inappropriate
for them to comment about the case as there is an ongoing investigation. I
don't see where a church spokesman is shouting "Yeah, Howdy! This is a hate
crime, for sure!! We want justice, I tell you! We want the perps locked away
for life!!!" Why are you trying to make the article say or mean something it
To "Blake"As a matter of fact "Blake" I "we" would. Vandalism is
vandalism and hate crimes are hate crimes. Just because we don't agree with the
gay lifestyle doesn't mean that we would seek full punishment against those who
offend us and then feel completely different towards others who have a similar
experience. If you really think that is the case you are simply ignorant.
Good grief! If this was done by children then of course they will get their
little hands slapped. But if it turns out to be adults then I say go for the
worst punishment the law will allow. If they get away with this then the each
attack will be more vicious than the last. No one has the right to mess with
other's property. I do consider all crimes against others as a hate thing.
However, this is aimed at a specific religion and I am beginning to understand
how it is applicable. Other posters have mentioned how we would react if it
were a synogogue or cathedral etc. I am beginning to understand.
I find it somewhat ironic that the mormon church fought against, and continues
to fight against, any sort of hate crime legislation, because of the inclusion
of gay and transgendered person in those laws. Now that they are on the other
end of that, everyone agress with hate crimes.Would you all be for
extra punishment if these words were written on a gay support organizations
I really dislike people who vandalize the property of others. We have had
vandals in our neighbourhood as well. I cannot understand why these people do
this kind of stuff. My husband helped clean up our neighbourhood after they
wreck the appearance of it. It's sad that there are so many people who hate out
there. It is scary! I hope they catch the persons who did this.
matters not what idealogy or belief, I respect the sacred..the temple as well as
the cathedral of the madeline ...hope their still there for others to enjoy and
know their history...although I don't walk hand in hand with many religions
..there is a law that far supersedes that and that is the Freedom of religion,
which my forefathers and sons fight for. to allow this kind of action against
any religion is disrepectful to all those who have served. These guys missed the
I am not in favor of hate-crime legislation because it is driven by
political-correctness and is not applied equally, therefore, it is
unconstitutional. If this same kind of vandalism was to occur at a Jewish
Synagogue or a Black Church, there would be howls of protest from the liberals
and the press. When it is the Mormons, it is dismissed as a prank. It is time
that when a place of worship is descrated, the community should come together to
make sure that the cuprits are held accountable. Thank-You
TO: Re: Interested Party. No one was saying there was a Mormon holocaust. You
really think that if this was on another church such as a Jewish synagogue it
would ever even be doubted as a hate crime though? Yes, there are a lot of
people who have been persecuted for their believes in history. Why would anyone
ever say "Yea your right i guess if others have been persecuted its ok for
people to do it to me". You might want to go back and study history for the sake
of learning FROM it.
Uncannygunman is just upset that in Utah democracy still works for the most
part. We've seen his kind before, for over 150 years now. His kind
think it unfair that a majority of a community's population should be able to
vote for their choice of leaders and make laws for themselves unless they
promise not to let their votes reflect their values. After all,
since the days of Federally-installed territorial governors it's always been the
enlightened non-Mormon minority who seem to know what's best for everyone else
in this state. If only we dim-witted Mormons would open our eyes and see the
light, our beloved but pathetic old Utah would instantly be transformed into a
Utopia (receive its paridisiacal glory?), where every community looked and felt
like Park City. Maybe then Robert Redford would feel more comfortable rubbing
elbows with us. Oh joyous day!
Um, in the graffiti they speak of claiming children's lives, and dismantling an
"empire"If that isn't hatred, then I don't know what is.
Nobody is ever charged with a hate crime for thinking hateful thoughts.
Hysterical slippery-slope arguments aside, the thoughts in the head of the
criminal are not a consideration in determining hate crimes. What is
considered is the criminal's intent. Prosecutors and the courts already consider
criminal intent. Otherwise, for instance, there would be no first-, second-,
third-degree murder; the only valid homicide charge would be a kind of generic
manslaughter. There is a big difference between spray-painting a mural with the
intent of expressing one's artistic merit, and simply scrawling violent
obscenities in hopes of intimidating members of a minority group. People who worry about hate crime legislation are really just worried because
they think they'll finally get punished for all the hatred that fills them. But
the haters can relax: It's still legal to hate--as long as you express it in
I am Mormon and you need to get over this persecution complex. Mormons are NOT
the only people that get bashed. Look at American history and the anti-Catholic
movement, etc. Don't use that as an argument.
This was probably jsut a couple of really dumb kids that thought it would be
funny. The content however is definitely hateful and should be classified as
such. I agree if this was a jewish synagogue or an African American Southern
Baptist Church this would be pretty serious stuff. Maybe by classifying it as a
hate crime and being investigated by the FBI will teach these kids some jokes
are not funny and just go to far.
Question...If the same words were painted on the side of a jewish Synagog
and instead of Mormon it said Jew, Would anyone be disputing that it was a hate
crime? Why is it acceptable to bash Mormons but not any other religion?
I agree that what was done was damaging and hurtful and should be prosecuted to
the fullest extent of the law, but should not be considered a "hate crime."
Crimes are usually committed because of hate. Hate crime laws allow our
government to decided what thoughts and opinions are okay and which are not.
When we agree with it, it seems like a great idea, but what happens when we are
put into the same category and our own ideas and opinions become illegal? It's
a slippery slope. A crime is a crime is a crime. Punish the action, but not
I sort of agree with some of these comments a little bit. Nice job everyone.
I get so tired of this argument. uncannygunman, you claim the LDS church
"controls Utah law and politics." While many politicians are LDS (I wonder if
many politicians in Rome are Catholic?), I don't see the church "controlling
Utah law" as you put it.Can you buy alcohol here? If the church
were really getting its way, you wouldn't be able to. Can you buy coffee or
tea? Doesn't sound like the church is getting its way there. Can you shop on
Sundays? I bet the church would love to pass a law prohibiting that, yet so far
it hasn't.If you think the church is an "evil empire" controlling
your life, there are some counties in Texas I'd advise you not to visit.
I have been appalled by the spirit of divisiveness and anger in many DMN
commentaries about anything involving the LDS, both as a church and as a
culture. When people use the rhetoric of persecution and hatred they should not
be surprised to find some willing to put those violent feelings into action. Perceived intolerance can only be turned aside by tolerance - not more
intolerance. The latter foments everlasting war as is seen in the middle east
and parts of Africa. Please don't bring that attitude here!
I think it is dangerous to allow any government to define or punish something
called hate. Graffiti can be property damage and considered a crime. But, the
content could be "politically incorrect" or not. The First Amendment is vital to
freedom of religion and must be protected.What was written as grafitti was
religious in content and the government must stay away. Abinidi was killed for
what he said. Do we consider him a criminal? No.We are taught to "...bless
them that curse you; do good to them that hate you;" JST Matthew 5:46
Words spray painted on the side of a building a hate crime? Come on. Sounds like
a bunch of kids goofing off.
I am so sick of people whining about Utah Mormons. "They are everywhere", "They
own Utah". YES, YES we do own Utah. We were here first and there are more of us
here. Maybe thats why we ARE here. It's like moving to an Indian reservation and
complaining about the Indians. Now your comment was very respectful, but non-the
less annoying as hell.
I'm not going to defend vandals, but please understand that to many non-LDS, the
church's control of Utah law and politics does represent an empire that needs to
be dismantled. Of course, the ballot box, the legislature, and the courthouse
are much more appropriate venues for this legitimate sentiment than the side of
I would just like to thank Same Feeling for those most inciteful no-comment
comments. Well done. Three seconds I will never get back!
This is just sad that something like this would happen to any church,
Wow. Brillant. Very well said. You must be a wonderfully persuasive and
eloquent person. Thank you . . .
Then don't read the comments.
My sentiments exactly.
And what feeling is that?
Reading those comments make me feel the same way I do reading most of the
comments around here.....
As a teenage convert in the early 70's I was often taught that in the last days
the righteous would become more righteous and that evil would become more
rampant. Now, as a clinical psychologist, I have seen the fulfillment of this
early prophesy. These are the times we live in and I do believe that
this sort of hate crime will only become more popular as time goes on. We need
to live our lives in such a way as to show the hate mongers that they cannot
sway us from our beliefs. We mustn't let their hate affect us in a negative way.
Let's turn the other cheek and pray for those who are so lost.
that kind of hatred is taught at home.
Whoever did it must be really hard up for entertainment. Its also kind of funny
(in a weird the people who did it are stupid way) because normally if you want
to dismantle something you would personally think the thing youre trying to
dismantle is bad or evil, yet these people call themselves "Knights of Satan".
Incase those people didnt know Satan is the evil guy. They probably did though
which suggests that they openly admit they are doing evil things (mean version
would be that they admitted they were evil).
As is usually the case. A lot of complaining will occur, the local news will
highlight the story, people will be outraged, but when the criminals are caught
what will happen? Hand slaps, "you know shouldn't do this", and no real
punishment. They should be forced to lick the paint off the brick until clean.