He says he's a Demo because of his faith and not in spite of it
Bottom line is Harry supports the government taking, by force if necessary, from
those unwilling to give and give it to those they decide that need it. God has
never given the power to any man to take what's not his without asking. I don't
care if it's good intentioned it's still wrong!! That's all there is to it. He
is a Tare among the wheat. Mormon or not he is helping destroy our country.
The problem with Harry Reid isn't that he's a Democrat: it's that he's a
Gadianton Robber! Anytime anyone pledges allegiance to an organization, for the
sake of the organization ABOVE PRINCIPLE, he is engaging in secret combinations.
I don't care how you justify it-it is ALWAYS wrong! Harry Reid says what he
does, just like Korihor and Nehor, because it is "pleasing to the carnal mind."
He knows what he's doing-and one day he will answer for it. Not to you or me,
but he will answer for it.
Tolerance = Respect. Every single one of God's children was given agency. You
can not choose how your neighbor lives. Whether or not you agree with Senator
Reid's remarks or political views you have no right to judge him and call him "a
disgrace to the church." The conservative party and many of the LDS church
members need to remember that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and you
are just going to have to tolerate their opinion and teach by example. How do
you expect to proclaim the Gospel to the world if you can't respect another
person's right to an opinion? I don't agree with everything that Harry Reid says
or does, but he understands that you can't force the world to have morals and
values, and you certainly can't take away someone's agency. So, don't condemn
for being a democrat and not voting the same way you do. Instead, practice
tolerance: Love your neighbors and respect the right for everyone to have their
I watched Harry Reid speak and I do not recall him saying that we don't need to
worry about abortion. I DO recall him plainly saying that he is pro-life, that
there are many democrats who are pro-life, and that he has voted pro-life when
he has had the opportunity. Him simply being a member of the democratic party
does not mean that he supports abortion or gay marriage. Those of you who are
basing your comments on what you read in the article have been misled by the
press. Go to the source.
I live in Denver, CO with my Wife and two children and we are active in the LDS
church. I am very discouraged by the comments I see on here. I didn't realize
all of the close minded right wing propeganda that alot of people in the LDS
church believe in UTAH. Republicans don't believe we are Christians!!
Period!! I would know I live outside of your state!!I see alot of
religous zealots on this blog and it frightens me. My Brother whom I love
very much is Gay and I would fear for his well being along with the way you
would treat him if he lived in your state!!We Mormons are more
tolerant from what I see on here than you that live in what appears to be a very
close minded society where you are exclusive and not inclusive.I
would never raise my children in Utah.
Interesting that Larry Richman wrote "Cheney said Mormons were ill-served by
Benson's (and others') conservative politics" just after bad mouthing Harry
Reid.WHY do people base their hate and anger toward Harry Reid on
news reports of Harry Reid's comments AFTER the speech instead of what he said
in his speech?We WATCHED the speech on KBYU TV as he spoke and he
did NOT make one derogatory comment about Pres. Benson or church leaders.Try to find a copy of the actual speech instead of repeating right wing
hatred of every member of the Democratic Party.
What a disgrace! Reid uses BYU for his political agenda. Compare Vice-Presidency
Cheney's speech at BYU, where Cheney didnt' bring up politics at all. But Reid
used his speech at BYU as a bully pulpit to trash Bush and even past Church
President Benson. Cheney said Mormons were ill-served by Benson's (and others')
conservative politics. "Members of the church are obedient and followers in the
true sense of the word, but these people have taken members of the church down
the path that is the wrong path," Reid told reporters Tuesday after speaking at
church-owned Brigham Young University.
Harry Ried comments show his true colors. By dismissing the emphasis of the
church leadership concerns regarding abortion, Gay Marriage, and Gay rights he
clearly does not believe the following statement from the First Presidency and
Quorum of the Twelve stating: "...We warn that the disintegration of
the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities
foretold by ancient and modern prophets. "We call upon responsible
citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures
designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of
society. " ("The Family:A Proclamation to the World" 1995)It
is impossible to believe he has not read this, and more than once. He clearly
is decieved and is now propogating on that deceit to others. He is on the road
It's interesting to me to note that very few of the comments here were written
by those who actually heard the talk. My wife and I attended that day, sat up
close, and listened carefully. I assure you that during his talk, Senator Reid
said nothing at all about Ezra Taft Benson or Ernest L. Wilkinson. He may have
made some comments about the Republican bias of these two men during their time
of service to BYU and the Church after his talk, but I assure you he never
mentioned either of them during the forum. Since his comments about these two
men are off-the-record impressions of Mr. Walch or other newspaper reporters who
attended that day, perhaps we shouldn't be so judgmental about what he
supposedly said.I think what LDS members are urged not to do in the
temple is to speak evilly of the Lord's anointed. Surely the injunction extends
far beyond the prophet to all anointed LDS members (of whom Senator Reid is
one), the deeper question here might be to say, had Senator Reid really spoken
evilly of Elder Benson? When he was prophet, President Benson stayed away from
his earlier conservative pronouncements. Ponder that.
I can not understand how any loyal LDS member can open support Harry Reid. He
clearly stated that members of the church should stop worrying about abortion
and gay rights, but these are the very subject that the First Presidency seems
to care about. I am absolutely confused to think that faithful intellegent
people don't see this stunt as just that. He called evengelical christians,
"anti-christians". Are you kidding me. He is in a position of great power and
influence, and his statement is going to hit the news. Imagine the outrage the
evengelical community will have. Who do you think they are going to take that
frustration out on? Mitt Romney of course. Harry puts politics in front of
religion. He is a snake. I ahve no hatred only disbelief. Come on people open
I really appreciated hearing Harry Reid's talk on byub.com. I've grown up in a
very conservative family. It bothers me that so many conservatives dismiss
liberal Democrats as kooks or lunatics. Saying so is an admission that we can't
understand them within our viewpoint, yet a large part of our country follow
this party line. They are as American as we are. Refusing to try to understand
them is cutting out a large part of our country.In the comments
above, I see people that won't listen to Senator Reid because they only see his
connection to the Daily Kos or Moveon.org or other Democrat senators. I
appreciated hearing what I heard as an honest expression of what he believes.I believe you can be a Mormon and a Democrat. I don't agree with Senator
Reid's positions, but I can understand his criticism that some Republican's only
talk about gay marriage and abortion; 2 critical issues, but they clearly are
not the only important ones.I think going to Iraq was the right
choice and we need to win the war, but I do not believe we have fought an
effective war for the last 4.5 years.
Joseph Smith was against slavery? He must have been a Republican than. A
Republican freed the slaves and a Republican gave us the Civil Rights Act. The
Mormans are only hurting their cause by embracing the demonic ideals of Harry
Reid. Time for some serious soul-searching my people. Harry sounds more like a
member of a Methodist Church.
How can anyone stand for a party that has killed millions of babies and believes
in gay marriage. By the way we have had 3000 die in this war and in the same
time frame we have lost over 10 million babies to abortions. I do not hear any
[D]'s talking about these little ones?
It's time for that OLD MAN to retire. Reid has gotten so for out of hand he
can't be taken seriously anymore.
To Joe Watts:Not sure how you define the vote for the war. If
you're talking about Congress' "Authorization for Use of Military Force Against
Iraq" in October 2002 (which is what most people are referencing when they
talking about this or that senator voting for or against the war), I'm afraid
you're dead wrong about Harry Reid. Go to the U.S. Senate's website, look up
that resolution (October 11, 2002), pull up the voting record, and find Senator
Reid (D-Nev). You'll find a solid "Yea" next to his name. I think you must
confusing him with Jack Reed, a Democratic senator from Rhode Island, who
certainly voted against the war. But Harry Reid did not--he definitely
supported the use of force. You can disagree about the wisdom of the
invasion--I for one was opposed to it before it even happened--but please, at
least get your facts right before condemning others.
In a press conference Harry Reid stated: "Members of the Church need to worry
less about abortion and gay marriage and more about health care, global warming,
education and jobs." I feel nothing is more important than stopping the killing
the unborn and thwarting/perverting the sanctity of marriage. Supporting global
warming claims that it is man-made will not endear anyone to my God nor will
will the type of job h/she holds.He mentioned President Benson among
past church leaders who have "taken members of the church down a wrong path".
He also said the Church leaders have pressed many into being conservative. I was
conservative long before I was baptized into the Church and the conservative
nature of the Church was a huge draw when I was investigating. Also,
Reid's bashing a sitting U.S. President from the BYU campus is patently crass
and wrong. I am very annoyed that Harry Reid was invited to BYU.
Almost any other speaker would have been better. I am from the class of 1970.
My wife and I are offended by many of his comments at the university where we
both graduated. Patrick Abernathy, Saint George Utah.
I am floored that people are so caught up on the message. I guess it is hard
not to debate but I think the real story here is that BYU had a voice on campus
different from its own. It doesn't matter what the message was, and it didn't
matter that students didn't protest, but the fact BYU let a dissenting,
different voice create dialog is a significant victory for the school's mission
of education. Nice
I am a student at BYU-HAwaii and I am doing a senior thesis paper on Mormon
Democrats being "in the closet" about their political views. Would anyone be
willing to talk to me about how they view Democrats in the LDS church?
What is wrong with being gay? I find that religious people say Gays are
evil/sinners because the Bible doesn't believe in Gays. So what if the Bible
says that? Does that mean that some religious people can harass gay people and
smear them? No. Be tolerant for goodness sake. The issues of Gay and
Abortions aren't important because they are both legal. End of story. Leave it
at that and focus on something more urgent right now like the War and Global
Warming. Both the War and GW are vastly more important than Gay and
Abortions because they affect the WHOLE world, not just America. Global Warming
will effect each and everything around us. Isn't that more important than
banning gay marriages? I believe so. So a simple note to all the
religious zealots out there: Live your life and your beliefs, but don't
impose them on others. If you don't like gays, don't be gay. If you don't
like abortions, don't get an abortion. I support Harry Reid because
Gays and Abortions is nothing compare to the War and Global warming.
To Open Eyes:First, "political" and "rational" should never be used
in the same sentence. Second, "the tyranny of religious belief?"
Who are you, Karl Marx?Third, there are many who reject
"progressive" ideas.Fourth, I will take your advice and question
everything, beginning with your point of view. I respect your position, but you
can't be serious in calling for the abolishment of all religious beliefs. Do
you know how many billions of people in the world you are going to have to
convince? Good luck with that. You might need a larger platform than the
comments section of the DMN though...
Mitt is a Mormon; Reid is a Mormon. Both men claim that their political beliefs
stem directly from their religious beliefs. What does this tell us? It tells us
that religious beliefs are so ambiguous that they are like "Barnum Statements" -
they can be interpreted any way you like. And that is where the problem rests.
Religious beliefs are practically worthless and are only stirring up
disagreement and hatred among people. The solution is for people to stop being
duped by religious beliefs. Be skeptical. Question everything. Do not acquiesce
to fables, myths, stories of magic underwear, golden bibles, etc. and do not
subject yourselves to the spinners of such tales and support them with your
money or your time. Free yourselves from the tyranny of religious belief! Only
then will political discourse become rational and progressive.
Mitt Romney was a liberal Republican before he decided to run for president.
The opposition people have for him can be summed up in 2 points:1. People
and other Republicans think Mormonism is a cult. They do not think we are
Christian.2. People and other republicans think that if he is elected,
then he will be a puppet for the Mormon church.Why do some Mormons
want to be affiliated with an organization that hate them? If Mitt were to
become president, will he be the president of the Mormons or the President of
the United States? He would be elected to represent all of America, not just
the Mormon Americans. This is the problem Harry Reid has to deal with. He is
required to represent the views of Nevadans. As a school teacher, I
cannot promote my views and ideas, I have to follow District guidelines,
regardless of what I believe. That is my job.It is obvious by a lot
of the posts, which posters listen to Rush and Hannity. They spew hatrid,
name-calling, and bullying. Those are great Christian values that any
Republican Mormon can be proud of.
All that I can say about Harry Reid is;1. He seems very comfortable
with the shady deals that he makes in Nevada. He also took $60K from Lobbyist
Jack Abramoff then said he wouldn't return it because it was a "Republican
Scandal".2. He said in his comments on a Church campus that
abortions and being "gay" is OK. I seem to recall that a fellow
named Korihor seemed to think that everything that a man thought to do was fine
as well. Follow him if you wish but I think that a guy who says anything for
power and is allowed free speech on a Church campus then lies about Rush
Limbaughs free speech of the truly "Phony Soldiers" will never get my
support.I started out as a liberal Democrat too, voting for Jimmy Carter,
(hapless) and Michael Dukakis, (maybe its OK to let the killer Willie Horton out
on furlow only to have him kill again). After my older brother gave me the
Democratic platform and it contained the abortion issue, I could not and will
not be a member of that party anymore. They call it progressive. I call it evil,
and getting worse.
Harry Reid D-Nevada speaking at BYU was no big deal to me. Just because I share
his religion, doesn't mean he has my support. Mitt shares my religion and I like
Guliani as of late.As for the comments of "I Am Glad I am Not
Mormon", I am glad you are not either. Thanks for leaving the LDS faith. I can
sleep better now.
Of course I am not going to stop believing because of what some people are
posting on a website. I am the one out there every Sunday trying to talk people
into coming back to Church, or at least sending them regular emails. My point
is I really did not realize how anti-Democrats many people are deep down. I may
be simple-minded (or perhaps one of the "evil learned" since I graduated from
ivy league) but I am a Democrat because I oppose war and support helping the
needy. In my reading of the scriptures, there is a lot more in there about
helping the poor and needy, providing to the less fortunate, opposing violence
and war, etc. than there is about making sure taxes are really low (and the
reality is the difference between the tax plans of Reps and Dems is miniscule --
maybe Libertarians and Green party but not Reps and Dems) or attacking every
country first that even has an inkling of being anti-American. I'm not starting
a debate on this; I'm just telling why I am who I am. Like me or hate me, I
will always be this way, and always go to Church.
I can help anyone who wants to take Carl's recommendation to join the Army. Let
Question by Mike Beal at 12:31 PM Oct 11: "Any chance you brothers and sisters
in Utah would like a Senator..... We have one we would like to trade!!!! "Reply:" YES, we will trade Bob Bennett for your Harry Reid". Orrin Hatch at least cares for the health of needy children while Bob Bennett
and his cronies Chris Cannon and Rob Bishop lock their heels and keep on voting
100 % for the Decider who made the worst political blunder in history when he
started a war against a country that had NOTHING to do with 9/11.When will all of you that support the war do something to support it like
joining the US Marines or US Army? Take your own warm body to Iraq to show your
support instead of placing cheap Made in China "Support Our Troops" banners on
Thanks Re: Democrat Mormon, for proving a lot of points. Mostly that too many
people have lost their rational minds.
To Brother Democrat Mormon, I am a Republican Mormon that agrees that
there is a lot of condemning of Democrats in this dialog. I get tired of the
politics of division that individuals of both parties practice. I believe that
if we are arguing for political parties, and criticizing each other for
our differences of political philosophy, then we are putting our trust in the
arm of flesh (see 2 Ne. 28: 31) and we are worshiping false idols.But are you really going to stop worshiping God (or even give thought to the
possibility), because someone criticized you? Or was your statement just
histrionic manipulation?By the way, it says in Mosiah 11:3, speaking
of the wicked King Noah:"And he laid a tax of one fifth part of all they
possessed, a fifth part of their gold and of their silver, and a fifth part of
their bziff, and of their copper, and of their brass and their iron; and a fifth
part of their fatlings; and also a fifth part of all their grain."And that is not all, in Mosiah 7:15, King Limhi equates their taxation by the
Lamanites to bondage.
I think our bishops have their work cut out for them. Some of these posts are
giving everybody else a bad name.
To Huh?:Check Mosiah 11:1-6. It doesn't say "too high," but it says
King Noah "changed the affairs of the kingdom" by introducing the 20% tax on
everything. It also says the people had to "labor exceedingly" to pay the
tax... No, it doesn't say "too high," but this is certainly not an endorsement
of the tax. Is that a fanatical interpretation?And to Anonymous
12:04pm:You're right. If you don't believe EXACTLY what someone
else does, you have no right to quote them. What?!! Christianity is
Christianity, and the LDS faith is part of it, whether you like it or not. We
don't need permission to quote Lewis or any other Christian philospher just
because they view the nature of God differently. And, it's not plagiarism if
credit is given to the original author. Get a clue.
I get the biggest kick out of listening Mormons' trying to out-Mormon other
Mormons. So ... WHO'S NUMBER ONE? WHO'S NUMBER ONE? ...
I am a bit surprised how many Mormon Dems in here completely overlook Reid's
approach in suppressing free speech on AM radio, especially Rush Limbaugh's
"phony soldier" remarks that were taken out of context by Media Matters and then
distorted even more by Reid on the Senate floor. Reid being a
Democrat has nothing to do with the criticisms he is receiving in here. It is
his ability to endorse politics that are not in the best interest of church
members let alone millions of American citizens. It is his ability to distort
facts and spin them for his own purposes. If Orrin Hatch or Gordon
Smith or any other LDS Senator was doing what Reid is they would receive just as
much scrutiny. If misrepresenting facts for political gain is part of the LDS
culture and doctrine then Reid is fitting in just fine.
Amen to the comments by sulla. One day we can dispose of both parties and the
American system itself when the Kingdom returns again to the earth.
In response to my previous post by Doug, all I am saying is for you to
understand church history a little better. The McKay biography by Prince is a
great illustration of the actual disagreement among the brethren during the
1960s as a result of Benson's flamboyant political beliefs. I am talking
members of the Twelve and First Presidency who were very disturbed and in
disagreement with many of the things he said. So be careful to label all of his
words at the time (that is, prior to becoming Church President), and books, as
the pure word of God because as is evident by the disagreement he engendered
among those brethren who represent the word of God as a whole, his words and
stances were not in harmony with the Brethren. So you see, there is some
substance to what Reid said about Benson although I disagree with the manner in
which he approached the topic. All members of the Church need to exercise
caution in defining true doctrine in the church from opinion and even
speculation. Not every word spoken by the brethren should be considered
official church doctrine.
Mormons must stop quoting CS Lewis. He believed in a Trinitarian theology, and
all the wonderful "insights" you Mormons plagiarize from him are based on that
Trinitarian doctrine - a doctrine your Elder Holland explicitly rejected and
mocked in Conference!
The Book of Mormons says NOTHING about tax rates being "too high"! What kind of
fanatic, misinterpretation is that? Give us a break!
One can be Mormon and [fill in the blank], but CS Lewis' "Screwtape
Letters" has it right - when we practice "Christianity AND" rather than "mere
Christianity" we fall straight into the eternal enemy's camp.Dividing into slavering hordes of Democrat-ites and Republican-ites devoted to
each others' destruction sounds very familiar to readers of the Book of Mormon.
The only correct side is God's, and He has no party. He has only Zion, and if
we want to flee to it, we need to drop our rhetorical arms and our warrior
spirits and remember that we are brothers and sisters.
I believe you can be a good member and affliate yourself with whatever party as
long as you project your true beliefs. I wonder how Mr. Reid
reconciles himself with the statement "Do you support, affliate with, or agree
with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or
oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints?"
These hate-filled postings towards Brother Reid, clearly show the insane power
of right-wing extremists like Rush Limbaugh. I wish his fans would listen to
some relaxing music instead.
Reid should be praised for some things and booed for others. I am a conservative
who is pro choice, but wishes with all my heart that people (women and men)
would make better choices concerning their sexual relationships and, if
pregnancy resulted, would plead with every woman to keep the baby.As
for the war, I don't think Reid is correct. The war is one of those issues that
polarize people. And it's causing a lot of good people to side with Hillary ONLY
because Bush has mismanaged the war. This is a bad reason to vote for Hillary.
There are plenty of good conservatives who would do a better job (McCain and
Giulianni to name a few) with the war.Taxes: The Book of Mormon says
that a 20% tax rate is too high, so I think any candidate that wants taxes above
20% for ALL people is not leading properly in that regard.
There have been several posts, very sanctimonious posts, that have condemned
Senator Reid for voting for the war and then opposing it.He didn't
vote for the war. He got it right! The peacemakers were outvoted by the
warmongers---simple as that. So your condemnation of Senator Reid is
based in error----but it won't matter to most of you, because you don't really
care about the facts. America can do no wrong with you. The church leaders can
do no wrong with you. Facts, truth, and justice be damned.Senator
Reid was the only Mormon in the Senate to vote against the war. To me he is the
giant in the room. It may have been the most important vote in the Senate in the
past 50 years and only about 30 of them got it right.Going to war
against Iraq was a criminal act---the most heinous crime a nation can commit.
Our flag should be flying at half-mast in mourning of our inglorious
and barbarous attack on our innocent brothers and sisters who had never
threatened us. We should be going through 'sack cloth and ashes'
I'm a Mormon Democrat but I never realized how many people in my own Church are
condemning me to hell for being one. Seriously, I feel like I need to
reconsider some things, like whether I should be slaving away so much every week
for my calling or paying so much of my money every year to tithing, all for a
group of people who deep down hate me. Just for perspective, I have a
significant Priesthood leadership calling and also have an income in the top 1%
of Americans. I didn't go to BYU but I donate to the school and am proud to be
affiliated with it through my church membership. But I never realized there was
so much hidden vitriole toward members like me who are Democrats. I'll have to
remember not to let my kids know about our party affiliation or they'll be
bullied right out of Sunday School and nursery. It's a crazy world we live in.
Senator Reid-what a simpleton. If he really believe the large number of LDS
people are republican because of social issues; he has been in DC far to long.
The principle of government welfare (something for nothing)which he so loving
claims to be based on the LDS doctrine seem far from my understanding of
principles of self reliance I have been taught. The modern democratic party
wants to remove consequences from people's choice-this to seems opposite of
things I have been taught. Being a Nevada native, Senator Reid is in political
peril. Every time he seems to be struggling he tries to uses his religion to
shore up support. Without republican LDS members in Nevada he cannot get
re-elected. The most ironic thing to me, if Mitt gets the republican nod, the
democrats will have a hard time using the church as a weapon. Why will it be OK
for Senator Reid to be LDS, but not Mitt??
I'm sorry...did Military Historian just equate Utah-LDS-Republicans with Hitler?
Wow, maybe your screen name should have been "I don't understand military
history..." Clearly, a lot of the comments on this board are over
the top. There are some who probably even regret their postings by now. This
is an emotional subject for a lot of people, and it shows. But to suggest that
somehow our church members in Utah are paving the way for the rise of another
fascist dictator, well, that's just utter ignorance. Who would that
Hitler-esque leader even be? Let people vent and go get some perspective.
I was there before Mr. Reid's forum address as he took questions from a small
group of those of us majoring in political science at BYU.I was
there when he compared his sons' missionary service to serving in the
military.I was there when he told us that when he voted against the
Marriage amendment he did it without reservation.I was there when he
told us that the war on terrorism would be won by the Democrats sending over a
diplomatic group to talk and reason with the terrorists.I was there
to stand and tell him to his face that the aforementioned idea was extremely
ignorant. I was there to ask him if he truly believed that it would
be Democrat policies that would defeat terrorism, then why did Clinton do
nothing after the WTC bombings in 1993?I was there to see the look
of shock on his face.I was there as he "answered" my question by
praising Clinton for his "wonderful" foreign policy and blaming President Bush
for the rise of Fatah.And I was there, walking away afterward,
thinking that either he doesn't mind lying, or his brain is just wired
Supreme Court decisions are not irrevocable. That is why I only can support
those I know will defend the sanctity of marriage and the life of the unborn. It
is a false notion that Supreme Court decisions can never be overturned.
Lest any of you are actually worried that the title of this article represents
BYU as a whole, it doesn't. Those of us BYU students from Nevada who actually
know a thing or two about Reid's voting record and political habits were not
standing at the door to welcome him with a handshake and a cookie. The standing
ovation was given by a few. The minority will always be loud, and that's what
gets the headlines. The controversy all over campus the past few days has been
hilarious. Pres. Samuelson might have asked us to give him a "warm welcome" in
his intro, but rest assured most of us can spot a wolf in sheep's clothing.And as far as the whole "stop attacking a faithful member of the church"
argument goes, would your bishop still be as respectable if he told his
congregation that the prophet was leading them astray? Would your mission
president be the great man you looked up to if he ignored the council of the
brethren and lobbied for gay marriage rights? "Brother in the gospel" or not,
he's made some choices that simply aren't congruent with our beliefs.
I've become a "Reagan Democrat". I'm tired of church members criticizing
Democrats. At the beginning of WWII most members of the church were Democrats.
My mother is a Democrat. You will never find a more faithful Latter-day Saint
than my Mother. She's a Democrat because she's a teacher and Republicans don't
take responsibility to adequately care for our teachers.You
Republicans should consider whether the Republican Party actually cares more
about abortion at all. The issue has become a blurred line. As Sen. Reid
stated, he's been pro-life during his entire career. Mitt Romney has been
adamantly pro-CHOICE for over 30 years (see his 1994 Senate campaign debate with
Ted Kennedy). Rudy Giuliani is pro-choice. Colin Powell is pro-choice. I'm
pro-life but it doesn't control my party affiliation as it has for the past 20
years. That's due to the change in position by our Republican party leaders,
not a change in my values.
Excellent observation Bart Mortensen. These are truly the nastiest of nasty
times. What would you expect from a group of people that even slam people trying
to help others calling them "do-gooders?" What can you say? It's a world
LDS wards/stakes are all over the world. There are LDS members of various
political parties. Askmembers in China, Indonesia, India, Ghana,
Nigera,the European nations, Central and South America, Japan,etc, what
political parties they are members of. Not one of them will say "Utah
Republican", and many don't even know what a Republican is. All that is
important is that the Gospel is taught and people accept it and live it as best
they can with whatever government is in power. You are not asked in any country
when you join the church what your political affiliation is at the time of
baptism or thereafter. The LDS church is a global church embrasing many
cultures, societies and political affiliations. You in Utah who are US
Republicans represent a minority of political beliefs worldwide that many in
other nations just don't even care about. What I do care about are fellow
members of the LDS faith who pontificate the kind of vitriolic fanaticism I have
read in some of the above comments, and you wonder how Hitler came to power.
Keep it up as your real master enjoys conflict, especially within the church.
"Never Again" seems to be lost on you.
Excellent job, Mr. Reid. Me wonders though, what the point is in casting your
pearls before so many swine. A vast majority of the posting people here are so
out of it that it's a disgrace--and this from a lifelong Republican who has just
switched parties. You can only lie to me so many times and I get the point.
I am not a member of the LDS church, I was raised in Salt Lake and live in
Nevada. Why is it that everyone questions Mitt Romney as being a Mormon, but
not Harry Reid. Most people in Nevada and the rest of the nation have no idea
he is LDS. I think his attack on the Christian right is disgusting. They are
more in line with the LDS Church in their political thinking, than Harry Reid
is. I find him to be disgusting and quite frankly a liar.
There seem to be a lot of recurring themes here. Like, Boy those Utah people
sure are dumb - glad I am not (or no longer) one of them. We're glad you are
not,also. But give people some credit and stop making blanket judgments. We shouldn't judge others. I agree we shouldn't judge Sen. Reid
personally, but he came to the University and made public political statements.
We can certainly make judgments about those all day long if we want. And I
intend to do so.Democrats really care about people. If you buy into
the fallacy that the only way to "care" about people is to demand more taxing
and spending on their behalf then I guess this is true. I disagree that
compulsory Socialism is the only way to really "show you care" however.Democrats can be good Mormons too. Of course, what's your point? As regards
to Sen. Reid's personal behavior and actions I cannot comment. I know that
publicly he has lied, degraded other politicians, supported abortion, gay
marriage and socialism. I don't judge him personally, but condemn his public
support of these things.And he is way off track with regard to the
Hey, Scotwright, I am with you on this. HE is a complete disgrace to the state
of Nevada, Utah and to the LDS church. My family grew up with him and his
family in Las Vegas. He was really nice and all that stuff back then, until he
got into politicsand now he thinks that he is GOD himself!! Makes me glad
that I am not a democrat, if I was, I would change immediately. What he
believes in, is not what the church believes in, plain and simple. Harry Reid
needs to stop telling people to stop worrying about abortion and other things,
HELLO, Harry, who do you think you are?? This is my free- agency and my
free-agency tells me that I need to follow the example the church has taught me
and what I believe in also. Don't stand there and tell me what I can or cannot
believe in. I am sorry that BYU let you come to speak and for you to tell
everyone that Bush is wrong, think about your own life and where you went
wrong!!!! Stop blaming everyone for YOUR mistakes!!!!!!!!!
To "Read the Book" above...What specific stances did President
Benson, a former Prophet, make in his teaching us about the "Proper Role of
Government" that we should be so threatened by? We should be threatened when the
highest ranking Democrat in the Senate...- Votes against the Marriage
Ammendment (endorsed by the Church)- Says he pro-life but undermines that
position by speaking against Alito after that Justice was the swing vote
upholding the ban on partial-birth abortion (The Church has an official position
against abortion).- Emboldens our enemy during wartime, and threatens our
troops by calling the war "lost" and Bush a "liar".- Suggests Joseph Smith
as a progressive would be a liberal Democrat like him.- Easily dismisses
the importance of family values, protection of the flag, and marriage as being
between a man and woman.- Says a past prophet took us down the wrong path,
and thereby undermining his authority.Therefore, for those who say,
"Yes, you can be a ood Mormon and a Democrat (or at least a Democrat like
Senator Reid), please explain that to me...
I only know Sen. Reid by his works. 1. He stands with those who
would destroy the family. I don't care what he professes. You can't get in the
pig pen with the pigs without getting some of the pigs on you.2.
Regardless of his position on the war, for him to stand on the floor of the
Senate as a leader and state that the war is lost is treasonious.3.
He is openly in favor of forcing me to subsidize social programs and policies
that are contrairy to my core beliefs.4. He supports a "Progressive
Judiciary" that will continue to reinterpret the fundamental basis for our
laws.5. He fails to be stand up for the rights of others not of his
party.He is perfect to represent Nevada, The state without a soul.
Sen. Reid is proof that not all that happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas.
Free agancy, free thinkers? How about moral agency and moral thinkers. If more
voters had been concerned about morals, Bush and Cheney would not have been
elected. We winced at the immorality of the last president of the US but at
least he didn't take out the infrastructure of a nation whose government did not
attack us. The promise in the Book of Mormon is that if we become an offensive
nation we lose the protection of the Lord. We don't go to war to protect our
business assets or to expand the "Core" for furthering business. I am contently
amazed at how many LdSs do not understand the message of the Book of Mormon. But
then again, I don't see enough voters who follow the facts and can critically
One should be open minded if one has not investigated and evaluated the options
available. The fact that most LDS have similar political views, for those who
are confused, is due to the ability of most to understand doctrine in
relationship to the political landscape today. Some comments here may seem
overzealous but our freedoms and families face threats that are endorsed by
Senator Reids party.Much has been made of our LDS leaders with
Democrat ties. I do not believe that any of them endorse the democrat agenda.
Elder Jensen said a couple of years back that the democrats need LDS people to
help shape the party agenda. I dont think they are having success in
accomplishing that.Much has been made of the hostility of the
religious right toward LDS. I can cooperate with them in standing against
immorality and corruption without their endorsement of the church. That
compares to standing with the democrats which include the drug traffickers,
criminals, pedophiles, etc. We can and should discuss Senator Reid
civilly and showing respect. But not every man with good intentions is heading
in the right direction.
Any reasonable reading of Utah history would show that Mormon beliefs (in the
early years) fall more in the communitarian camp than the supposed "free market"
camp of supposed conservatives. It's "Republican v Democrat" devisiveness
promoted by the "powers that be" and fooling the public with fake sentiments re
abortion, gay rights, and immigration that distracts the common voters from the
crimes committed against them and in their name by the ruling, "conservative"
cronies who keep the common people working harder for less. ONE PARTY
government, church and business dominance is bad for the common people. The
cronies love it, though. I read their comments, or the comments by their
willing shills, everyday to understand this. EVERYTHING, virtually, these
cronies say and do goes against and distorts the lessons of our founders.
Isn't it sad what is happening in this country?After 9/11 the country was
united. Today it's liberal v conservative; dem v repub; and even Mormon v
Mormon. These truly must be the last days.
I read Harry Reid's speech online. It is not as caustic as it some in here are
saying but it is also pretty boring. I am glad Reid has strong testimony of the
gospel and expressed that in his speech. But overall it is a run of the mill "I
spoke at BYU on Tuesday" address. Senator Reid's support of US
military personnel has been limited and the speech showed that with his chatter
about commendable service and mentioning how great the Peace Corps and VISTA
programs are in his opinion and comparing them to King Benjamin plea to help you
fellow beings. He didn't express anywhere in his speech that serving in the
military was honorable or even an option to serve your country.His
mention that there would be more LDS democrats in the future seemed a bit bold
considering the latest platform of his party is one of the least friendly to
those who are members of the LDS church. Reid is boring but Mormon
and I am sure God loves him as much of anyone else on earth.
I have read a goodly amount of the wave of rhetoric generated by Senator Reid.
If nothing else, he has raised us from our bed of lethargy. It does boil by
brain chemistry, though, to be told I am a "self-righteous hypocrite" because I
am against abortion and in favor of the death penalty. In my layman's mind,
these two issues are not on the same side of the plate. Interesting that the
individual who brought this out DID NOT identify themselves. I admit, with no
reservation, that I am active LDS and live in Texas. Only lived in Utah when I
went to BYU many moons ago. I am not an intellectual. Some of the good folks who
have made comments here could blow me out of the water with their superior
ability to voice rethoric. Bottom line, Senator Reid did not sway me one
little bit. I am now more firmly entrenched in my determination to follow the
counsel of my leader, President Hinckley and whoevermay succeed him till
the day I die. Call me brainwashed or whatever you choose. That's OK. My
thinking is, if I do this I will be safe.
Right on "ashamed"! Render onto Caesar the things that are Caesar's and ... (you
know the rest)But don't tell this to some of these angry posters. It might
freak them out.
I am ashamed at the backbiting and sniping going on towards a fellow church
member! Agree, don't agree - whatever! Brother Reid is our brother and has as
strong a testimony as anybody I know. I would be honored if he was my home
teacher, or bishop or even stake president!
At least one person has mentioned "Seperation of Church and State" - I don't
have time to read every comment so I just wanted to post a fact here in case
anyone else is thinking about it. There's nothing in the Constitution that
mentions "Separation of Church and State." What it says is, "Congress shall make
no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free
exercise thereof." That's the first line in the First Amendment. That doesn't
mean that a President or other elected official can't be religious, or be guided
by their own personal beleifs, but rather that the government is to establish no
official religion of the US. I beleive it's possible to be a Mormon
and a Democrat. I also beleive it's possible to profess Mormon (or any other
religion) beleifs without being a true Christian. Most of our Founding Fathers
called themselves Democrats (because they were rebelling againt the Monarchy -
they wanted a Democracy) and they were all Christians. Sadly, politics and
religion have both changed a lot since then. That being said I'm
dissapointed - but not surprised - by Mr. Reid's remarks.
I love it when people get all preachy on these blogs.
The gospel is perfect not the people!
I think I'll start worrying more about healthcare and global warming when
President Hinckley starts making statements about them. So far, the Church has
made statements about the damaging effects that abortion and same-gender
attraction have on our society. I guess I'll just have to stick to my
Brother Reid says that FDR is his hero and that W is the worst president ever.
But FDR did all the same things that Reid hates about W, only he did them much
worse.1. After 12/7 FDR gets Congress to approve war with Japan. He then
goes and wages an illegal war with Italy and Germany who had nothing to do with
12/7, distracting him from the real goal of bringing justice to the perpetrators
of 12/7.2. FDR wastes the lives of 182,070 American soliders in his
illegal war with Italy and Germany. The real war with Japan only cost 106,207.
(And these are only the combat deaths.)3. FDR abuses civil liberties with
severe rationing, controls on free speech (both individual and press),
wiretapping, surveillance, and the racist seizure of property and interment of
Japanese Americans in concentration camps without charges or trial.4. FDR
starts his own WMD program and tests it on American soil, and effectively
against American citizens.I guess W just hasn't gone far enough to gain
Brother Reid's approval.
If you believe that abortion is wrong, but the spirit is eternal (as is the LDS
belief system), shouldn't you be happy when non-religious people have abortions?
After all, this just gives these spirits a better chance of being born into an
LDS family (or at least some other Christian family).
Are people seriously continuing to defend the ill-fated justifications Bush used
for his premptive strike on Iraq? Again I ask, where were the WMDs?
Also, please realize folks, this was a forum, not a commencement address - this
distinction is necessary to understanding the context behind the comments by
Reid and Cheney. A forum is purposely focused on more secular topics; it is
usually an opportunity for BYU to invite a specialist or expert to discuss
his/her research and experience. So it very well makes sense that Reid would
discuss politics, as this is his occupation and expertise. So please understand
the differences in the settings for these discourses in your disparaging
comments against Reid.
Spell check hint to one of the posts on this blog containing an otherwise
admirable attempt to both use and refer to civility in engaging in a
discussion:The latin phrase referring to personal attack is spelled "Ad
Hominem". The complete phrase is "Argumentum Ad Hominem" and is translated
"argument against the man". "Homonym", interestingly is a member of group
of words with the same spelling or pronunciation, but different meaning. Hence
"homonym" is a homonym of "hominem" (more or less).Amusing.
Isn't it interesting that Mormons have so blindly followed the Republicans for
years when it was the same Republican Party during the 19th century that tried
to destroy the LDS Church because of polygamy. Wasn't polygamy one of the twin
relics of barbarism, along with slavery, that the Republican Party sought to
Any chance you brothers and sisters in Utah would like a Senator..... We have
one we would like to trade!!!!
Quit working for Reid in Nevada over 20 years ago, and became a republican
because of contradictory actions of mr Reid. It's not the parties it's what the
parties stand for and how that will effect our children and grandchildren. I'm
very sure Mr Reid would have no objection to the church leaders whole hardedly
supporting his views. But Reid gets flack and will always get flack because his
legislative agenda and church affiation are in conflict.Reid degrades a
truely God fearing man in the White House who took out a weapon of mass
distruction and saw him executed. Don't be confused between weapons and tools.
However, Reid openly adored and protected a man who openly cheated on his family
disgraced the office and taught that it was ok to lie. Thousands of souldiers
have died under Pres. Bush for the sake of liberty, and they new why they died.
Millions upon millions of little American baby boys and girls have been
murdered, executed, under the consenting nod and open defense of mr reid. And
now he says, don't be concerned with that,because he dodges everything and
leaves you and your family holding the Bag. Follow the Money!
1. After 9/11 W gets Congress to approve a war in Afghanistan. He subsequently
gets approval for a war in Iraq. He didn't need the approval for Iraq; the war
from 1990 never ended. Iraq failed to comply with the terms of surrender and
fire on our patrol aircraft at least every week. Just because Bubba chose to
ignore it doesn't mean that we were not still engaged in a war.2. The cost
of the Iraq war (this decade) has been the least costly war in terms of life and
treasure in US history. Do some history folks (and be sure to account for
inflation). 3. W's wartime record on civil liberties has actually been
mediocre. However, he has not taken as draconian measures as other presidents in
other wars. In some ways this has been his weakness. With no sacrifice, the
American citizenry feels no connection with the success or failure of this
war.4. WMDs were one of several justifications given for the Iraq war. It
was based on intelligence believed to be correct by a vast majority of Congress
and the White House. It was also unnecessary (see #1 above).
I would encourage all to read Gregory Prince's biography on President David O.
McKay in order to realize some of the great contention that Benson caused among
the brethren during the 1960s as a result of his overzealous, extreme political
views. Then you will realize that, contrary to what you might think, there were
many of the brethren that disagreed with his views and as such, we should all be
reluctant to characterize such views as the pure word of God. Such a story
tends to undercut some of the premise behind such conservative-promoting books
like Prophets, Principles, and National Survival.
WOW...you folks are the reason that mormons are looked at with a jaundiced eye
by "outsiders".UHHH...see any issues here with religion and politics
mixing together anyone? Anyone? Anyone?
After being away from SLC for a while I see things are just as wacky as ever.
There's been a lot of talk about why Dick Cheney was protested at BYU but not
Harry Reid. Most of the comments regarding this issue have been made by people
who aren't at BYU and have no idea what they're talking about. Yes, liberal
students here protested Dick Cheney, and yes, there is a glaring inconsistency
between saying that Dick Cheney's visit amounts to Church endorsement and not
saying the same for Harry Reid's visit.However, the reality is that
there was no protest of Harry Reid not because everyone welcomed him, which was
certainly not the case, but because most of us who disagree with him felt that a
protest would be inappropriate. I agree wholeheartedly.Protesting
is a wonderful right we enjoy, but if used too often it loses its effectiveness
and hurts true political dialogue. In this case, there has been more than
enough dialogue (just look at this site!), and everyone has been able to express
their approval or disapproval, so why protest?
To all those who say LDS (well, Utah LDS, actually) aren't anti gay, just read
all these posts above: "Gay Rights, Gay Marriage, Gay Marriage, GAY MARRIAGE!"
ad nauseum. Tell me, are our gay brothers and sisters not tax-paying, American
Citizens? Do they not deserve legal rights for their families? Why such
derision for them? All of you should try living a day in their shoes, then you
might not be so quick to condemn them.
Many Republicans and Democrats have posted. All profess to be good LDS. Is it
"possible" that both Republicans and Democrats can be recommend holding
Mormons?And what about people from other countries. Should we
"allow" Mormons from Amsterdam, South Africa, Germany, Italy, Mexico, Russia
etc. to hold Temple Recommends.Vent all that you want, have your
opinions, and judge who you will, but with all due respect, unless you allow
others their opinion, what makes you think you deserve the right to your own.Personally, I came out of conference week feeling super strong, and
right now many make me feel my religion is a tad soiled. I guess it is my
testimony in the gospel (not the members,prophets, or senators) that keeps me
Did he say that President Benson led members (if unintentionally) down the wrong
political path? This man continually makes me speechless... I don't know
whether to apologize for him or just ignore him. AAAAAAAGGGGGHHHH.
WHEN will all those who support the War in Iraq stand up and join the US Marine
Corps or the Army Infantry? If too old, take your children or grandchildren to
sign up to go to Iraq to help fight this War of Choice in Iraq.Talking about supporting the War in Iraq is cheap. Actually carrying a weapon
as a Marine or a Soldier would give REAL proof of your commitment.
Reid may not believe it important, but the proclamation to the family says that
"calamnities foretold by ancient and modern prophets will come upon any nation
that doesn't uphold the family and marriage between man and woman" Okay, I'm
paraphrasing, and have bad spelling. But that is what it says. Not important?
when the idea of marriage is under constant attack? with Harry Reid leading the
As a Nevadan and a Mormon, I am embarrassed by Senator Reid. He is a black eye
on the Church. Wrapping his heresy up in his testimony, sounds a lot like the
way Satan gets someone to take a step down a slippery slope. Casually throwing
away the issue of same sex marriage and abortion by focusing attention on global
warming and saying those are more important than issues that are at the heart of
Christianity, leaves me wondering if he really does have a testimony of the
Gospel. Accepting President Hinckley as a Prophet of God, while throwing the
Proclamation on the Family into the mud, and then saying that Church Leaders
have spoken wrongly about conservative issues is Heresy! Saying that Mormons
are leaving the Republican Party in droves is a great example of "Democrat
magic", that if you say something from a podium, it must be true. Mr Reid, I
know Baloney when I hear it, and you Sir, are full of it. The truth is you are
an Embarrassment to the Church and to Christian values. Comparing yourself to
Joseph Smith is like comparing Korihor to President Hinckley. Shame on you!
Hey, you people who don't like negative comments -- don't read forums. IF we
disagree with someone who is publicizing views we abhor, we have the right to
complain. You can stick your head in the sand; it won't change facts. And that
fact is that many people are disappointed in Harry Reid and his political
stance. I admire him in many respects, but his fight to preserve Roe v. Wade is
as wrong as that decision was, in my opinion. Remember, what really counts in
America nowadays is the 5-4 vote in the Supreme Court. With one different vote,
the court could not have made some of the mistakes it has made and would have
made many more mistakes in recent years. The chief reason I vote Republican is
to keep the court from going liberal. I don't trust the Republicans any more
than I trust the Democrats. But I think they give us a better chance of keeping
the Supreme Court from becoming an unelected and superceding legislative branch.
Bravo for Harry Reid, and kudos to BYU for extending the invitation. I hope
that most of the hateful comments on this board are not from BYU grads, because
they would represent the university very poorly and reinforce the stereotypes
already out there.
I think people like Reid are just a start of a movement of people that will try
to undermine the prophet and God's church. I don't see a better way to weed out
people than to have the church 'split'. Don't be fooled by Reid or his 'fancy'
words. Belonging to a particular political party doesn't matter.
However, the more important thing is what does your party believe and are you
supporting that?Harry Reid, may say one thing, but in reality he
fully supports all the evils of our society. He is using the church for evil
purposes and I would like to see someone critize him for it.He says
jobs and health care are more important than abortion and gay marriage. I would
rather be jobless and sick in the city of Enoch than well off in Sodom and
Gomorrah.Follow the prophet not Harry Reid.
Issues more important than abortion? Taking lives of precious spirits? Help!
Can someone explain why Democrats can take one man or one Republican who does
something hypocrytical and "label" the entire Republican party as such? Do they
honestly think that the entire Democratic party is free from being individually
human and making poor choices??....these comments make me sick! open your eyes
and quit whining so much! Can't wait until Hilary comes to Utah begging for all
your money....remember what her hubby did in the White House...can we talk about
someone who did some great things but made a poor choice??
Hmmm? Lets see.. Elder Ballard goes to Washington representing the First
Presidency and the Twelve to lobby for a marriage amendment to the Constitution,
and who votes against it? Senator Harry Reid.Despite claiming to be
a good Mormon, Senator Reid paid more attention to the gay and lesbian lobby
than to the First Presidency and the Twelve.Then he wants to tell us
that President Ezra Taft Benson led us down a dark path? Hmmmm???
"Brother" Reid is wrapped around the axil. He belongs to the hate America first
crowd. He is a plank holder to the Iraq surrender group. Mostly, his hatred for
President Bush has been starkly evident,and he has done very little to support
the war on terrorism. We are in a war, believe it! In my view, "Brother" Reid
has done all he can to undermine the policies of this administration,and do
everything possible to cause the defeat of the U.S. in Iraq. Senator Reid
will not be re-elected. The day of the "good" democrat has long since passed.
what a shame.
A corrupt, lying and hateful politician lecturing belivers in what is Christian
and what is not. This is hilarious. A wolf telling the sheep that he is the good
How about repentence? Isn't that why God killed so many people in the old
testament, because only their own blood would help them in the afterlife?Death penalty is not the same as abortion, so don't call me hypocrite when I
side with what God has done to help those who commit such foul sins!Abortion IS murder.Did you know if you kill a woman who is 1 month
pregnant, you will be tried for TWO murders? Yet she herself could have gone and
had the baby killed. Now THAT is hypocracy. One more thought. Any
ever here of a talk by a leader of teh church where he would say the devil would
be happy if he could sneak one lie into the truth?Sounds like he's happy
with both democrats and republicans.
Only Reid bashers once believed there were weapons of mass destruction? Didn't
Reid sign the paper to go to war, didn't most democrats? Quit trying to back out
of what they chose!
He seems nice, but I just don't get why the Democrats can't admit that they
would have also attacked Iraq....President Clinton has said so on the news
himself....they act as if they never would have entered the country, which is
hogwash....I have a taped news interview of Clinton saying he would have sent
over double troops at first....the democrats just always complain yet they do
not offer solutions to everything anymore than the republicans....they are just
YOu have met Reid, and think he is not pro-gay and pro-abortion? Okay, HAVE YOU
LISTENED TO HIS SPEACHES?!
NEVER put Elder Faust and Reid in the same likeness. THERE IS NO SIMILARITIES,
other than both are democract. What they believe and SAY are completely
different.It is an insult to Elder Faust to say such a thing!
I love how Reid is getting credit for "expressing what he believes" and getting
standing ovations for his talk about his tear-jerking childhood and
faith-promoting life. HeLLO?! Do any of you people know anything about his
voting record? He voted FOR the invasion of Iraq. Mr. Reid, were you a part of
that "worst blunder?" Yes. He claims to be pro-life (and made a big deal out of
it in his speech, probably to excuse himself) yet does nothing to further the
pro-life cause (and gets mad at the Supreme Court for upholding the ban on
partial-birth abortion). He claims to believe marriage is between a man and a
woman, yet votes against it in Washington even when Nevada has voted for it
twice at home. "More important issues..." That's a wonderful example. No wonder
no one gives Harry Reid a hard time for being Mormon back in DC, yet they do to
Mitt. Mitt at least acts it!
So, I guess the Family Proclomation, the church's recent stance, very strong
stance, against gay marriage has no meaning? Reid claimed there are more
important issues. What does the proclomation say? DESTRUCTION! if the family
values are not upheld by nations!He's quick with his words to move
sidetrack on issues, push blame onto others, and wiggle like a snake out of a
possible uncomfortable question.Reid can be a democrat all he wants
AND be a church member. But he can't lie and decieve and contidict what the
prophet is saying. In my book, he is a kingsman.
Republican Dick Cheney comes to BYU in the midst of protests, and cries that he
not speak. Harry Reid comes to BYU, disparages past prophets, and gets a warm
reception at BYU. Perhaps we as members of the Church have bought intothe
"tolerance", "diversity" and "political correct" movements so much that we will
bend over backward to accomodate those who appear open-minded and diverse. When
will we learn to affirm our beliefs, rather than be embarrassed by them.
I have no problem with Reid speaking at BYU - differing opinions are usually
constructive. However, having lived in Nevada for the past 12 years, I want to
clarify for others that Reid's actions in Nevada HAVE NOT mirrored what he
perports to be his beliefs. I am very much a conservative Republican, but I do
believe that a person can be Mormon and Democrat. A perfect example of that is
the Mayor of Henderson, NV. His actions, statements, and policies are consistent
with his beliefs. Reid cannot say that. None of us is perfect, and I can accept
the best efforts of imperfect people who's actions, however imperfect, mirror
their true beliefs. Either Reid's beliefs are not what he says they are, or else
he is lying to far more than himself.As you consider Reid's speech,
remember (and I encourage you to do the research)"Actions speak louder than
Sen. Reid at BYU - GREAT! Maybe we'll get it after all. The same people who
condemn the "Christian" right for being anti-LDS (and make no mistake they are)
appear to me to be similar to the "good" Mormon's who think every member that is
not a Republican is the Anti-Christ. Go Hillary!
I know many people think that BYU is funded by tithing. I have been told by
those who know that it is not. Can anyone tell me how, and why they
know that my tithing supports BYU.Oterwise, I would appreciate
people not using that as an excuse to dictate what they believe should happen at
I would love to have Harry Reid or Mitt Romney as my home teacher, quorum
leader, bishop, or stake president. I don't agree 100 % with the
political decisions of either but get disappointed reading all the bad mouthing
of Harry Reid by people who claim they love the Savior, Prophet, and/or the LDS
Church. I get just as disappointed when the "moral majority" won't support Mitt
Romney because (in their words) he is a member of a cult.Listen to
the tape of Harry Reid at the BYU Forum. Please don't base your opinion on other
people's interpretation of his remarks. Unless you were at the actual press
conference after the assembly, you can NOT give an accurate account of his
reference to Ezra Taft Benson.
I don't care for his politics, but it sounds like Brother Reid has a solid
testimony of the church, the Book of Mormon, and the Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley.
And that is what counts!
All these years I thought I had prayerfully been considering my stance on all
issues that the LDS church teaches, but Mr. Reid tells me that President Benson
was "to political". Gee, I just thought he stood up for the constitution and
freedom of religion and freedom from oppresion of communisum and socialism. So
I guess I won't complain anymore that eventually half of everything I make will
go to people who don't want to work or come here illegally so I can feed and
clothe them. That way I won't have extra money left to support the church's
welfare system which actually asks those who use it to pay back their loan by
working for the church (welfare farms...canneryetc.) in some capacity. The US
Govt. does not. I'll stop complaining about the millions of deaths of innocent
unborn children...no matter how viable and how old the fetus. I'll stop
complaining about worker's comp law which rewards stupid employees who don't
follow company procedures, thus making companies pay and often go under because
they have to pay for their employees stupidity along with ridiculous legal
costs. I'll stop complaining now and become open minded...so any junk can fall
I appreciated a better perspective of Senator Reid. He is committed to his
beliefs and active in his political cause. That deserves respect. Disrespect
and lack of protocol to others does not. That was unfortunate to see.
I cringe whenever it's mentioned that Harry is Mormon because I think that
people will begin to think the rest of us are like him. What a way to hamper
Has any one asked Senator Reid about his real estate dealings and how he came
about his wealth as part of his recommend interviews? We seem to have "buried"
his past as we evaluate his trustworthiness and integrity. Maybe he needs to
read President Benson's great talk on pride and take a lesson.
I am disgusted, appalled and offended by what Harry reid said about Ezra Taft
Benson. Harry is a wolf in sheeps clothing.
Politics aside (which is where they belong) - Reid is an embarrassment. His
comments in the press are inflammatory. He opens his mouth and inserts his
foot-he's ridiculous and has bought in "hook, line and sinker" to the Liberal
ideology that is leading this country down a path that will destroy it, and from
which there will be no return. (And sorry, I have to say it...global warming is
the biggest hoax ever perpetrated upon a people that are supposed to be the most
educated and informed in the world.) It's a sorry state of affairs when someone
spouts that we should be more concerned about a non-existent bunch of garbage
than the state of the Families in this country.
#1 There are major problems with both leading political parties and many of the
politicians within them.#2 It was foretold in The Book of Mormon that there
would be many church members that would apostatize in the Latter-Day Church."Behold, there are many called, but few are chosen. And why are they not
chosen? Because their hearts are set so much upon the things of this world, and
aspire to the honors of men, that they do not learn this one lesson-- That the
rights of the Priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven,
and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon
principles of righteousness. We have learned by sad experience that it is the
nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little
authority, as they suppose, they will begin to exercise unrighteous dominion." D
& C 121:34-36,39 Income redistribution is one serious form of
"unrighteous dominion." Socialism is no different than stealing, rather than
mugging me at the point of a gun you use the government as your unlawful agent.
51 people have no more rights than 49.
All I can say is that every time Reid opens up his mouth I stand in awe at what
comes out. How long do we have to deal with this man in power? Please return to
Nevada and live your religion and stop corrupting nation with your ignorance and
lack of judgment.
Way to tell it how it is Reid. I'm happy that BYU invited him and he got the
reception he deserved. Contrary to some of the opinions above, not all of us
Mormons are closed minded conservatives.
Dale H: I like your idea about baking cookies and visiting people. Your comment
about "judging not" is, I think, somewhat misguided. If you look at the Joseph
Smith translation, you'll see something along the lines of "judge not
unrighteously," or something along those lines. To me, that means to judge with
the spirit. Really, we have to make judgments daily about people, events,
politics. Reid himself does so about Pres Benson and others, or about whether
to emphasize trying to outlaw abortion.In general, although I am LDS and
conservative, and I don't agree with Reid on most issues, and I think his
belittling of the President is somewhat damaging to the country, I think it's
good that we have such a high-ranking politician who is an LDS, liberal
Democrat. It proves that the Church really IS apolitical and tolerant of many
philosophies, that this position is not just lip service. Anytime someone
accuses us of being just a bunch of conservatives, we can say, "Oh yeah, well
what about Harry Reid? He's a Mormon."
Whats the big deal? So Harry pocketed 400K in a shady land deal. Who cares?
And those gifts from the Nevada Athletic Commission...come on, everyone does
that stuff. Also, you cant make a big deal out of greasing the
skids for an Indian casino. He only got a mere $66,000 out of it. You must not
like Indians. Racist. Oh and that $330,000 in federal grants got
for Rev. Willie Davis? It was just Pork. How could he know there would be an
indictment? And those comments about already having lost the war,
well what do you expect him to say? If we win the war, it might make Bush look
good. Its just politics. Who cares if it emboldens our enemies?You
all need to lighten up. Teddy Kennedy has done much worse.
Harry is an embarrasment to my adopted state. His slogan for his last election
here--INDEPENDENT LIKE NEVADA-- Can you believe that? He's as independent as I
am a giraffe.
Harry Reid is amazing. In 2004 Harry received a $700,000 profit for the sale of
land he hadn't personally owned for three years. I wish I could do that!
Can you imagine Harry as a home teacher? A quorum leader, or a bishop, a stake
president? Maybe a tourist.
Reid must not have been there (or read about it) when Brigham Young divided the
conference in the tabernacle down the aisle. One side, he said should be
Republican, the other Democrat. Something must have happened for, though we
don't record members' political party, we all know in which camp most members
rest. All Americans are disappointed in many Republicans this year, but
probably not enough to see the switch Harry is suggesting. Young people don't
want to go to war, so no surprise he got a rise out of BYU students who have
never lived through a real one.
Reid Advises us to worry less about abortion ect(Democrats usual rallying Cry)
while at the same time in the Senate calls the President names, advocates
cutting and running from Iraq, has great regard for Military lives in Combat,
while telling people not to be to concerned about abortion, which claims more
lives in a single year than the entire time the US has been engaged in Iraq to
date. Usual Democratic demogoguery and blatant hypocrisy!
So I read all the posts--and the most important item that sticks out is Reid's
decision to vote against an amendment to define marriage. The leaders of the
Church sent an official statement inspired by God to vote for this ammendment to
solidify the morals of our country. Mr. Reid decided that this inspired council
was not worth following. What does that tell you about his character and
testimony? He is more concerned about his party's stance on the issue than the
Lord's. What will he justify next?
To Claudia: Thanks for posting and fine comments. The LDS Church was being
prosecuted a long time before these self appointed Religious Right folks came
along, while I'm not sure of the exact time it began, Latter Day Saints have
mostly voted Republican for ages. Some try to associate the LDS Church with the
Rekigious right, which is absolutely false, so you see the nit picking of the
Church continues in this regard. Many WERE and voted Democrat too, and I believe
when the Democratic Party was the real Democratic Party, and not like the
present one. Much of the persecution of the Church in its early days was during
periods of Democrat Administrations such as Presidents Polk and Buchanan and
States and local governments.
It amazeses me how we can continue to miss quote.I challenge anyone (if
there is someone srill reading) to show where it says "thou shalt not judge"
followed by a period.I would be willing to pay anyone that can show me
anywhere in scripture that, "free agency" or "fredom of choice" is followed by a
period. You will always find reference to good or evil and consiquence. And someone, please, point out to me where the president of the United States
spends one penny, let alone into "record deficets". As important as we claim the
constitution to be I am amazed at how little we know about it. Especially to the
roll and limits of each of the three branches. [Go ahead test yourself. Name
the three branches.]Finally, If charity is the greatest of all the
gifts, define charity for me. I doubt taking my money or goods or talents by
force and giving it to someone else and keeping most of it yourself can be
called charityNot exactly on the subject of Sen. Reids visit but just some
observations in the comments.
The Book of Mormon makes it apparent that we should vote for the person with the
best morals first, and then go with what we agree with second. I see heros and
losers in both parties. Frankly, I think many Republicans sold us out in the
last few years because they robbed us with their "pet" projects. We now have
the worry about becoming like Weimark Germany if China "nukes" our money. I
don't want to take a wheelbarrow of money to buy a loaf of bread. Democrats are
also guilty of this. I think Clinton should've been impeached for breaking the
law, but I also am outraged by the Republicans that wanted to impeach Clinton,
now wanting to give "amnesty" to illegal aliens. How's that support the "rule
of law"?!I disagree that abortion and gay marriage are not critical
issues compared to "global warming",etc. I have the agency to
commit robbery, murder, etc. Are you going to legalize those in the name of
"choice" as well? Science is contradicting Roe vs Wade. Five month old fetuses
are living when born, so how can you rationalize an abortion at that point? It
is no different from legal murder!
Fellow LDS republicans. Republican leadership believes in Universal Health
care.(Universal health care is different from sociolized medecine)Sam BROWNBACK : " We need high-quality, affordable health care for
everyone."-- Announcing his candidacy, Jan. 20, 2007Tommy
THOMPSON:"We must build a system that is affordable and accessible for
everyone"--Iowa, April 2007Mitt ROMNEY : "We found a way to
get everybody in our state, Massachusetts, insured. I like the plan. I think
it's one of the best things we did in my administration. It's not perfect. We
will learn from it"--On Fox News' "On the Record," April 23, 2007Ron PAUL:"It's time to rethink the whole system. The rise of HMOs has created
a harmful collusion between politicians, drug companies, and organized medicine
that raises the price of health care by stifling competition between providers.
And all this in favor of moving us towards universal health care."----
Muckraker Report, June 28, 2007Indeed, it is astonishing that in the
richest country in the world, the citizens (and even children) cannot get access
to health care -- not by lack of medical know-how or facilies or money-- but
because of HMO profit.
I too am disappointed about BYU's warm welcome for Reid. In the past few months,
I've heard many comments in the news, etc. that came out of his mouth.. and
after reading this article I was shocked to hear that he is LDS. I literally
laughed out loud. It's a good thing his religion isn't out in the main media yet
as much as Romney's religion is questioned.
To all of you up in arms about abortion and the "right to life"... I have to
wonder if you feel the same way about the death penalty? Is the death penalty
murder? Think about that before you slam someone on their right to have a few
cells removed from their own body, you self righteous hypocrits.
Doesn't the church teach that you should not judge others? This is a free
country, and not everyone subscribes to the same religion. I believe we, as
Mormons, should sympathize more with gay people who just want their rights.
Especially given our own history of being persecuted for what many felt was
immoral sexual behavior (Polygamy). Let gay people have all the rights they
want, and practice their beliefs the way they see fit. Even if we find it to be
immoral. In the end, God will sort it out. We should just be worried about
We don't care...Just makes you sound stupid.I grew up in
Utah, moved to So Cal 21 years ago, and back to Davis County 1 1/2 years ago.
That being said, Please don't mention how cool you are and enlightened because
you don't live in Utah.I found Male and Female "Molly Mormons" in
both places, and free thinkers in both my ward in So Cal and Utah.If
you live out of state, the freedom you feel is from your own issues. Deal with
them, get a beer and mow your lawn on Sunday. My Utah mormon neighbor does it
every Sunday after church. (He won't smoke while doing it though, it pisses off
The problem, Stumblefall, is that decent Godfearing conservatives most often do
not give with one hand while voting against socialism with the other. One only
needs to look at the Bountiful and Provo benches or the very exclusive
riverbottom communities between Provo and Orem to see what opulence exists in
the mist of "the saints". The "surplus and excess" are brutally evident. On the
other side however, there are so many poor people just minutes away who, through
no fault of their own, cannot afford even the necessities of life. When caring
hands should, according to their religion, be reaching out to lift and help and
even succor (see my previous post "finally finished") their poor brothers and
sisters. This sort of feigned concecration because they give back a fraction of
what God has so graciously given them is not "true religion and undefiled before
God". Maybe someday we will get there as a people but we are nowhere close yet.
We can, however, vote for policies that approximate the giving
spirit, however awkward and false they may be until more are ready to truely
give as Christ gave. Good luck with this on a personal level.
Fellow LDS republicans, the Republican leadership believe in Global WarmingMitt ROMNEY : "You're seeing the climate get warmer or climate change is
occurring and I believe that human activity is contributing to that." --
Business and Industry Association National Leaders Forum, May 29, 2007Sam BROWNBACK: "Global warming has occurred. We have far more CO2 in the
atmosphere than we had 100 years ago. That's factual."-- U.S. News and
World Report, Aug. 2006Rich GULIANI: " I think we have to accept the
view that scientists have that there is global warming and that human operation,
human condition, contributes to that."--Republican debate, June 5, 2007John McCAIN:" I believe climate change is real. I think it's
devastating. I think we have to act ... the overwhelming evidence is that
greenhouse gases are contributing to warming of our earth and we have an
obligation to take action to fix it.-- Video on campaign siteRon PAUL:" [Global warming] is a problem."--Campaign stop in
Iowa, May 3, 2007
If you discovered that Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, or Chairman Mao was still
alive and still killing people by the millions, and then a trusted leader told
you not to worry about it, would you trust that leader? Since Roe v. Wade, over
40 million children have died in abortions in the United States alone!
Approximately one million babies will be aborted this year. You've been worried
about Ahmadinejad? So have I. But if he or one of his stooges nukes a major
U.S. city, we will likely lose fewer lives than we do from abortion this year.
What a sick world we live in. What twisted logic to not consider abortion an
The thing that annoys me about Reid's comments is that they are false. He
praises Joseph Smith (and rightly so) for his stance against slavery but faults
Ezra Taft Benson who, along with President Kimball, brought about the revelation
that blacks be given the priesthood while he was President of the Quorum of the
Twelve Apostles. Either Reid is a bad mormon because he's a Democrat or Reid is
a bad mormon because he has integrity issues. While it's probably a little bit
of both, I'll put more weight into the latter. If Reid has issues
with the Church's stance on abortion and gay rights issues, then he should
excommunicate himself from it since that is our stance, like it or not. The
Catholics are looking for more high profile people and he'd fit in with their
recent decisions to loosen up their beliefs about gays. The Church is run by
divine revelation, not blind political expediency.
I say we make a rule that people can publish posts, but they can't use the word
Republican or Democrats. Rather we use only ideas and beliefs.I
think it was Dick Van Patten who said "If you label me, you negate me". It was
good enough on the greatest family show ever made, "Eight is Enough", and that
makes it good enough for me.In closing, asphink terseyzwhat???
My issue with Harry Reid isn't so much with who he is, as what he is
politically. We here so much from our left wing Democratic friends about
"separation of Church and State, especially when it comes Republicans and
Conservatives, yet Reid can come to BYU and mix Politics with religion and can
get away with it. Dick Cheney gets invited to speak at BYU and BYU's young
Democrats have fit and a tizzy. Reid gets a pass.David in CA
lectures us to be respectful. Fred says he is ashamed of the reprehensible
intolerance displayed in the comments made by so many "God-fearing" people.
Then he says: "Whats the matter with you?"Well Fred, and David in
CA, I ask what is the matter with you? Have you never witnessed the Vitriol and
snide remarks spewing forth from the mouth of this sanctimonious jerk on the
U.S. Senate floor? He and the rest of the Democratic Party are leading this
Country down the path towards socialism and Communism, and oh by the way
Fred,its his character Thats "what is the matter with me!"
Didn't the church practice the United Order at one time? That was a socialized
program. How about the Perpetual Immigration Fund? Maybe we should get rid of
the Church Welfare Program. We should probably stop doing service
projects....After all, people should not receive things they have not worked and
paid for......Some of the most abused words in the last few years
have been: Honor & Integrity. If you have to brag about it, you don't have it.
I am so thankful that I was inspired to leave Utah....It was so hard to stay on
the pedestal that I felt pressured to put myself on.
Awwww...I was just trying to be helpful, and I ended up putting in a URL, and
there goes my comment. BYU's website mistakenly spells it 'redi' instead of
'reid', so if you want to read the transcript of the forum, there you go. What I
was trying to say was that it's very politically astute for Reid to paint the
Democrat Party as an alternative to the Republicans, because the Republicans are
very unpopular these days. As well they should be, since they are obvious
corrupt. But it's very typical for liberals to paint just two alternatives:
better for the government to feed and house a homeless person than for him to
die in poverty on the streets. But there IS another alternative: lower taxes,
and private citizens will step in to take care of their fellow man. Reid
neglects to mention that many true conservatives have abandoned the Republican
Party already, and not to join the Democrats. Better for him politically not to
mention the Constitution Party, because it espouses the Constitution, God's law,
and his party does not. Actually, better for Democrat politicians in general not
to mention the Constitution, because that engenders questions they can't answer
Well, I read all of the comments and am amazed at the negativism. Lets consider some of the "weightier matters of the law" as spoken of by
Jesus. I want to refer to Mosiah chapter 4:14-26. This is essential when
considering the morality of ignoring the poor. Mosiah states that those who
"turn (the poor) out to perish" and who use the justification that they have
"brought upon (themselves)this misery" (because they were lazy, indolent,
etc.??) will "perish forever" and have "no interest in the kingdom of God" Check yourselves on two points that have been brought up previously.1) There are many more forms of immorality than what the Democrats
display and many of these other forms are on full display in the Republican
party as well. 2) Both parties are corrupt and not any one party
will come to this country's aid when the constitution is hanging by a thread.
The question for each of us on these issues is "where do I
stand?".I suggest that if we are unwilling to separate from our
surplus to help the poor (whether through taxation, free will offerings, etc.)
then we stand on very shaky ground and offend the creator.
I know many of you are chastizing the "negativity", the "hate", the examples
people are setting to non-members, and heaven forbid we do anything to hurt the
missionary process...Bottom line, LDS and Non LDS are posting, using
their 1st ammendment rights to Freedom of assembly, of the press and speech. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of
the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the
Government for a redress of grievances."Face it, it is a worldwide
church and so many members could care less of this arguement. They are living a
pure gospel in a developing country. President Benson doesn't care what you say,
he's dead and living in the presence of the almighty (I know the guy, he's
allright). Slammin him does not really do a ton of good.Nope, you
are exercising our rights as Americans, one thing that the church supports. I
am proud of each and everyone of you.OH, one last thing, there is
really no fire and brimstone. It was an Urban Myth.Post your hate
Let's have a little talk about what the Savior taught. Yes, he taught that we
should love our fellow men and take care of them. No, he did not teach that the
government should enforce that. When the government seizes tax money from its
citizens by force and distributes it to the poor and the needy (after taking
their cut, of course), that is not the Savior's plan. When private citizens do
so out of the goodness of their heart and out of a desire to follow the Savior's
teachings, that IS the Savior's plan. When the government seizes said tax money,
it makes it much more difficult for citizens to do good things with their money.
It is very common for Satan to present a plan that is similar to Christ's plan.
In this case, Satan has presented socialism, which is so much like the Law of
Consecration, except for one thing: it's forcible, not based on free agency.
Just because someone doesn't believe the government should be involved in
something doesn't mean they don't believe in the thing--e.g., education,
charity, swimming pools, skate parks. True god-fearing conservatives give with
one hand and vote against socialism with the other.
What Reid was espousing is that eventhough he (and I also) are against abortion
and same-sex marriage, as aborrant as they are, the far greater wickedness
destroying our nation under Bush is the exponentially increasing gap between the
rich and poor (D&C 49:20). That is the reason the Lord gave for destroying Sodom
and Gomorra, that they did not take care of the poor (Ezekiel 16:49-50), and the
other abominations only added to the anger. Republicans have the beam in their
eyes on this one. While they try to take care of the mote of saving lives while
in the womb, they do all they can with their policies to destroy life once born
by supporting policies that enrich the few while sinking the masses into poverty
and degradation. These Utah Republicans walk around in their long robes,
believing they are more righteous because of their obvious prosperity, but their
hypocricy is clearly discernable. They will answer for the destruction of the
Constitution, and other great values we once stood for, for supporting despots
like Bush who push policies that destroy. 90% of the world and 75% of US see
Bush as a despot. What is with Utah?
To say that we LDS should put abortion (no comment on gay rights) on the back
burner and give it secondary attention is disturbing coming from an active LDS
man. Yes, the world issues, especially those that focus on the middle east are
important. But sancity for life is at the top of my list of priorities. I will
balance every thing else. But I say again, human life and the right to live is
at the top of my list.
Dear "Request for Clarification": the Deseret News articles attributes Reid's
comments on Benson and Wilkinson to a press conference at BYU today, not the
We love Harry. Back in 2002 we were involved in a casino dispute with a rival
tribe. Harry sent a letter to then Secretary of the Interior Gail Norton. The
next day, we sent a 5,000-dollar check to Harrys tax-exempt political group, the
Searchlight Leadership Fund. Reid was so good to us that we decided to funnel
about $66,000 to Harry through Jack Abramoff. Harry is great! Stop saying bad
things about him.
As a Mormon, a Republican, and a Nevadan, I find it disquieting how ridiculous
some of the LDS comments are. To try to say that only one political party's
platform is compatible with the Church is narrow minded and runs counter to what
Church leaders say. Last time I checked, the First Presidency hasn't been
ashamed that Senator Reid is a member. I wish the few pretentious LDS out
there would shut up about how evil and corrupt and unfaithful Sen. Reid
supposedly is. Sen. Reid is a politician, not an anti-Christ, and those who
confuse the two need to brush up on the doctrine they say Reid ignores. Senator Reid represents my state in the Senate. And though I find his
positions contrary to mine, I find no reason that he is not a faithful member of
the Church. And if we are going to hold Reid up to the microscope when it comes
to Mormon politicians, take a look at Orrin Hatch and every other politician.
Stop turning our religion into a political game. We're a Church, we're
supposed to be Christians, not an exclusive self-righteous-Republicans-only
I cannot believe some of the fully charged, emotional, and idiotic statements
that have been posted here. The problem with our society is that we have become
too polarized with the Republican and Democratic parties. In my opinion, neither
party has it right and do not have the best interest of this great country. They
are completely consumed with their idealogies that is backed by lobbyists and
big time interest groups. Until we realize what we are doing by debating some of
these irrational points of view, this entire country will continue to head for a
train wreck. By the way, last time I heard - the brethren have counseled us to
ponder and pray about how we vote and to keep politics out of the church meeting
houses. From the comments afforded on this page, I seriously doubt that is
Again, this is a very important point...What did Harry Reid really
say about Ezra Taft Benson, President Wilkinson, flag burning, abortion and gay
marriage?The Deseret News article attributes to him some pretty
bold, and certainly controversial commments.However, BYU's website
contains a PDF of his address, but doesn't mention these quotes. Can
the publisher of the PDF document at BYU please clarify this important point?
Of course President Benson was leading the Church astray; why else would the
Lord strike his mouthpiece mute and dumb?
Foreigner, but no stranger:I'm with you. The invective coming from
these Utah Mormon's, of which I am ashamed to admit I am one, is very
unchristian. It is just stunning to see how barbaric many of these supposed
disciples of the Savior are behaving, with articulating rationale for their
hypocrisy.For one the socialism, caring for the poor, that they rail
against is actually much closer to what the Savior taught than the rugged
individualism or capitalism that they promote with so much emotion. If they
actually understood their own scriptures they would see that capitalism is
actually the opposite of consecration, and leads to the huge gap between rich
and poor we now see clearly destroying our nation. They preach Korihor's (the
antichrist's) doctrine a little too vehemently, as Rush Limbaugh types, which
was "that every man prospers according to his own genius." The hypocrisy of
their positions is readily discernable to those who can think past their noses.
On the one hand they rightly do not believe in evolution, yet readily accept
survival of the fittest (social darwanism) as gospel--naturally, they are
prospered because they are so much better than others. These Republicans are
I AM VERY DISAPPOINTED WITH THE WARM RECEPTION GIVEN SEN REID. I WAS VERY
DISAPPOINTED WITH STUDENTS THAT ATTENDED WHO EMBRACED HIS SOCIALISM AGENDA WHICH
HAS NOT CHANGED FROM DAY ONE. ANYONE, STUDENT OR NOT, WHO SAYS WE HAVE BIGGER
PROBLEMS THAN ABORTION AND SOCIALIZED HEALTH CARE IS A HIGHER PRIORITY LEAVES ME
SAD. I AM NOT A DEMOCRAT NOR A REPUBLICAN. NO POLITICAL PARTY TELLS ME HOW TO
VOTE. THE CHURCH DOESN'T TELL ME HOW TO VOTE. I AM SAD THAT THIS SO CALLED
MEMBER OF THE CHURCH COULD STAND AT THIS GREAT UNIVERSITY AND SAY THAT BRO
WILKERSON, FORMER UNIV PRES, AND PRES BENSON, LED MEMBERS ASTRAY WITH THEIR
CONSERVATIVE VIEWS. I REMEMBER YEARS AGO IN GEN CONF WHEN SOME LIBERALS WERE
CRITICAL OF PRES/ELDER BENSON SPEAKING SO MUCH ABOUT THE COMMUNIST AND THEIR
AGENDA MADE A STATEMENT THAT HE HAD NEVER SPOKE IN CONFERENCE WITHOUT PRES MCKAY
APPROVING HIS TALK. PRES BUSH IS LIKE HIS FATHER, NOT VERY EFFECTIVE BUT WE ALL
STICK OUT HEADS IN THE SAND IF WE THINK AN IRAQ PULL OUT WILL CLEAR THE AIR ON
TERRORISM. THESE FOLKS PLAN TO WIPE US OUT EITHER THERE OR HERE.
100 years from now Harry Reid's views will seem mainstream WITHIN the Mormon
Church, just as Romney's anti-polygamy views are mainstream NOW. Social progress
cannot be stopped. Sooner or later the Church catches up.
I used to live in Utah. I left because I did not like people judging me for
expressing my opinions. I am pro-life. I don't care who gets married to whom.
Those are things I have absolutely no control over. I even listen to Rush and
Hannity....just so I know what the opposing opinions are. I am appalled at
their constant spewing of hatred, name-calling, and slander. This forum is
spewing the same "talking points." So much for independent thinkers. Reid is my
Senator. I don't always agree with him, but he is the Senator for the whole
state of Nevada, not just the Mormons who live in Nevada. He keeps church and
state separate. He is required to represent everyone. People need to stop
listening to OPINION RADIO and start thinking for themselves. Rush & Hannity
are only expressing their opinions. They are not expressing actual facts.
Think about it. When have they ever referenced facts? When they make
statements, do your research and decide it they are actually correct. Rush has
been know to say, "Let me do your thinking for you!" That is one scary comment.
What did Harry Reid really say about Ezra Taft Benson, Joseph Smith, flag
burning, abortion and gay marriage. Senator Reid is quote bold if the Des News
article quotes are accurate.But BYU's website has a pdf link but I
don't see that quote. Nor do I see his reference to Joesph Smith being
"progressive".Can someone please clarify? Did the reporter get it
wrong, or did Reid censor his bold (even outragous remarks) after the fact?
I am so disheartened. I have a family connection to Harry Reid. Though most of
the time I am embarrassed to admit it. I wonder if I'm being too judgmental
about him, because we are to love our neighbors and pray for our enemies. But
it's not being judgmental to disagree with him. And I strongly disagree. I had
a comment made to me the other day by a young adult that the church was evolving
towards accepting gay marriage and abortion. Wow! That frightened me to the
core that we are raising a generation that actually believes that. We have been
warned to guard our testimonies with our lives and to beware of false doctrine.
Now is that time to be very guarded. Even though it is frightening to think
about all the liberal chaos that is overtaking our world, we have also been
promised that if we are prepared we shall not fear. My take on that is to teach
our families true gospel teachings that haven't changed since the beginning of
time. Do what we can to better ourselves and serve others. But most of all,
listen to our prophet, not Harry Reid. No animosity intended.
Harry Reid is rather unique a mormon who is a liberal democrat and power hungry
and ruthless in his attacks on President Bush, he simply hates the President and
everything he stands for. I for one have a strong dislike for the man and as
Queen Victoria said "We are not amused."
Compare LDS doctrines with the "platforms" of the Republican and Democrat
parties, and it's not surprising that most Mormons are Republican. Some earlier
people writing here mentioned a few past LDS church leaders that were or are
Democrat, and quite a few regular LDS members too. Sure, it's their choice to
make, but they are clearly a minority of the church. Political parties gradually
change over time. Ronald Reagan, when commenting about switching to the
Republican party many years earlier said something like "I didn't leave the
Democrat party... it left me." Also, kids are more likely to affiliate with the
same party their parents do, so it's no surprise that some LDS are still
Democrat... it sometimes takes tradition a while to catch up with reality. The
Democrat party (whose symbol is a JACKASS) for decades gradually became the
party of socialism... a big powerful federal government which "buys" votes
through income re-distribution, and pushes secularism too far, at the expense of
morality and the family. It involves much more than abortion and gay rights.
Speaking of abortion, many dems cringe at the thought of executing a convicted
murderer, but are OK with aborting unborn babies. hmmm.
All I can say is let God be the judge of Senator Harry Reid. I personally have
no love for him or his political ideas at either the state or national levels.
However, with him in the opposite corner of Mitt Romney and both claiming to be
"recommend toting" members of "the church" this next year ought to be
entertaining at the very least. All I can say to anyone thinking about jumping
on the "Harry Reid is a great leader" band wagon is do your homework on him
first - as you should with any political leader...many of them are not what or
who they appear to be. I believe this is a case of Mr. Reid playing to his
This comment is directed at the previous post entitled, very ironically,
TRUTH.Truth didn't state the truth, and it would be a good idea for
Truth to do a little truth searching before shooting off his mouth. Senator Reid did not vote for the war. He was one of the few who recognized
the immorality of invading a country that had never threatened us.Anyone who believes our 'shock and awe' invasion of a defenseless, impotent
nation was a moral act is in some mystical sphere I don't understand.It wasn't a mistake when we invaded Iraq. It was a crime.Joe
I have known Harry Reid since he first ran for public office in Nevada, and won,
as Lieutenant Governor. I was distrubed by him then, and have continued to be
disturbed by his politics ever since. He has done nothing but disappoint me for
decades.Harry Reid says he is "pro-life" but votes and supports
every abortion bill he has ever faced. And if he thinks health insurance and
this phony global warming baloney is more important than all the moral issues in
this country, he's not only in the wrong church, he's in the wrong country.
Becareful when a leader sets himself up as a light for the praise of men and
criticizes the leadership of the church and country for leading us towards
principles of life, accountability and independance making us free to help those
in need by our own free will and choice and not because our resources have been
given to the government to be redistributed as they see fit. We need many more
Ezra Taft Bensens and less of the Harry Reid, Korihor, Nehor, Sherem types.
These comments - unbelievable drivel - the whole lot.
BYU is paid for by my tithing as much as it is by yours. Too bad the only GA
present was the one that had to be. Guess there are no Democrat-voting GA's in
Utah.In my country we have health-care for all and we're careful to
conserve energy and water, yet we are governed by a right-wing party that
supports the USA in Iraq and Afganistan. Call us Socialists, if you dare! You actually seem to believe that universal health-care is a bad thing!
Go live somewhere else in the world for a while - see what a blessing is
universal health care!Can't you Utah Mormons see that you are very
rude and intolerant of people who see and do things differently to you? Can't you see that you're not just politely disagreeable, but that your
words are actually atrociously rude, offensive and hateful? Glad Br Reid isn't
black, he might have been lynched in another decade - but no, he wouldn't have
received an invite back then.I'm also glad God told me the church is
true. That's why I stay.God isn't a bigot - neither should we
be.Hugh B Brown where are you?
Second, Reid is not criticizing "the Lord's anointed." Ezra Taft Benson was
notoriously conneted vis his son to the John Birch Society and actively
solicited endorsement of that organization by President and prophet David O.
McKay,who rebuffed him. As an apostle, Benson went about preaching Birchism at
stake conferences over which he presided. Church history of that period will
doeument the fact that he was called on the carpet by the prophet for doing so.
In that event, does it mean to you ultra conservative LDS that McKay was a
fallen prophet? Probably. How sad that for political purposes you continue to
pervert the goapel and become the very wickedly intolerant people you would
condemn. sad . . .
I am ashamed of the reprehensible intolerance displayed in the comments made by
so many "God-fearing" people. What is the MATTER with you? Do you think God
will love you more when you spew this kind of venom? Most of you who object to
his comments are deliberately twisting what he said to your own vile purposes.
First he never says that we must think less about abortion from the standpoint
of a moral view. He clearly is telling us that we need to focus less on
religions moral issues in this supposed democracy where freedom of belief and
action is a protected right and instead let the GOVERNMENT focus on problems
that affect the whole population. And since the church recognizes the efficacy
of abortion under certain circumstances, Ried's view of the government's role in
dealing with it is right on target. God gave us agency. If you don't approve of
abortion, don't get one! simple as that Continued
Those of you that are appalled by Harry Reid's side-swipe (sort of) at prior LDS
Leaders need to go to some forums. That was nothing. Read "Infinite Inwardness" by Li-Young Lee (1/27/04) available at
speeches.byu.edu and see what you think of that.
I'm posting a bit late o this site, but there's a lot of rhetoric here that's
NOT very "Christ-like".I personally saw a tape of his speech last night at
BYU by setting the VCR to record it off the BYU-TV channel.Mr./Brother Reid I thought gave an excellent talk.He talked about his
early childhood, he talked about his discovery to Jesus and the LDS Church,
THANKINGEVERYBODY who helped in that path. He talked about his wife
and how they met and the circumstances of their marriage. He spent only a
little time onPartisan politics. He's a Democrat. So what!!I'm a
registered Republican. I vote the issues and not just "party line". I'm glad
that we have two major political parties. Wish we had 3 or more.What if
we only had one?? ..like some places.This man is an example of how one can
get somewhere in life starting with very little. Kind of likeJohnny Cash
in the music biz. LET's BE Respectful....Thank You and
God Bless.... nG
I find the fact that Senator Reed chose to bring politics into his visit to BYU
unfortunate. Instead of focusing on the mission of BYU, the church, and the
gospel of Jesus Christ, he made it a political stump. I also find unappealling
his rudeness in the way he characterized President Bush as stupid. Such name
calling is inappropriate and rude. It is one of the reasons both the
legislative branch and the president have such low approval ratings...
AT JAZZ FAN SLAPPER:Listen lets get it straight- KERRY IS THE MOST
CORRUPT POLITICIAN IN MODERN HISTORY.Reid is corrupt, but not the
Interesting how Reid talked about learning of the greatness of America when he
and his fellow liberals (oops I mean progressive) disregard the constitution of
the United States. Dingy Harry represents the cook fringe that wants to strip
all personal rights(i.e Bill of Rights and rest of the constitution) and make
government the all powerful be all and end all. He and his co-horts
including many republicans are a greater danger to the U.S than terrorists.People that actually applaud Reid need to listen to what he says on the senate
floor to actually know what he stands for.
Edward - ??????????????//Being honest with military folk is
disgraceful??????This war and any war of aggression like it is. It is a
simple fact. How can anyone justify it. Even Iraqi's are clear they were better
off before the American invasion. Mr Reid is an honest American . The real
traitor are folks like Mr Bush and Cheney that are motivated by their own
Dirty Harry Reid is the most corrupt politician in modern history. That is a
fact. I don't care if he's Mormon or not. And I don't care that BYU had him
over. But just know this: he is a vile man whose pockets are stuffed with dirty
History Buff,Youre right. There are just as many unfavorable favors
given on the liberal side of the bench.Im not trying to defend one
side or the other. As I mentioned above, Im an independent who is sad that I
cant find satisfaction with any party Ive encountered.I hope I have
not come across as too strident. What I did mean to express was that Harry Reid
should not be attacked just because he is a liberal. There are too many
skeletons in both the Republican and the Democratic closets for the followers of
either party to suggest that they have a monopoly on virtue.On the
other hand, there are enough good people on all sides of all issues for us to
learn to listen to what they might teach us.
Mr. Reid is a disgrace as an American. A man in his position telling our men &
women in uniform that we have lost the war. His type of Democrats have no
respect for our military. It is our military that has given us the freedom we
enjoy, not people like Reid. I don't want this type of person defending our
country. We will lose our freedom with his type of leadership. Sixty years ago
he would be called a traitor by everyone. Unfortunately so many in our country
today are so uniformed about what our enemies want to do to us. As a politician
Reid is a fool. As a Mormon he is a disgrace to say that there are more
important things than worrying about killing unborned babies. He should read The
Family, A Proclamation To The World and then think about the gay agenda. The
nerve of the man to attack former Presidents of the of the Church. He has a very
screwed up belief system. Non members cannot believe he is a member of the
Church. His political beliefs and our Church are out of sync. BYU officials have
lost their moral compass by inviting Reid.
I am an alumnus of BYU and my politics have been definitly against abortion and
the deplorable scourge of sexual perversion so raised out of purportion to the
numbers of people who really do practice such life styles.But when
it comes to health care, global warming and caring for the poor,President Bush
showed more of his oligarchic approach to the poor and defenseless as he tried
to reduce the money for CHIP the money for which is comparatively a drop of
water in the ocean to even just the daily cost of the war. In the balance I
can't conscience such callousness. I think we as a people need to read King
Benjamin's speech really closely. Senator Reid sounded a lot more like King
Benjamin than the speaker of the great and spacious house!We are a
people who are commanded by scripture to study these issues out for ourselves.
But we are rather quick to label, judge and then dismiss. The issues ought to be
our focus and NOT some one's label and the diatribes attached to those labels.
I think Senator Reid was very courageous to enter the lions den
today!!! Daniel would be proud!
jsmith:And George Soros (with MoveOn.org) doesn't lobby or attempt to
influence Congress?The whole idea is for various factions (or groups
of people) to petition government for action. Ideally (maybe) everyone would
have altruistic motives, but that is not reality. So business owners/operators
have every right to lobby government for favorable legislation. You do it. I
do it. Not the same way as monied interests, but we do do it every time we cast
a vote or write to those who represent us in Washington for some action on
things of interest to us. McCain/Feingold is such a horrible law: It prevents
us from banding together to exert some influence on our national legislators
(via political contributions). That law has been upheld by the Supremes, but it
violates every principle of Freedom of Speech. I think we can agree
that corporate welfare is seriously abused. IMHO, Conservatism is a
much more equitable and just philosophy over modern liberalism. Big government
is anethema to liberty, and that is where I disagree with Reid and his party
(and more than a few republicans, including Bush).(BTW, I saw your
correction after I posted...thanks.)TTFN
History Buff,I cannot let pass your comment about "indolence" being
"common to the poor." This is exactly the sort of attitude that
makes some conservatives seem uncharitable. (Note: I did not say that liberals
have the solution to poverty. Only that they are not as likely to be
condescending.)Most of the poor work far, far harder than most of
the rich (and even the middle class). And they see so little reward for their
labor because they were born in the wrong circumstances, or got sick at the
wrong time, or just werent as smart or talented or lucky as others. I know because I grew up among the poor. I am no longer poor, but not because
I alone was a hard worker. In truth, Im pretty lazy; but I happened to have the
blessing of good parents and the good luck to be very good at school (thus,
full-ride scholarships, job offers, etc.).Please note Im not saying
that Democrats have the solution to the problems of poverty. They dont. But
please dont be so smug as to suggest that Republican favors to Wall Street would
solve poverty if only the poor werent so lazy.
"He (Reid) has no experience in the military" says Brian. And Bush, Cheney, and
What I don't understand about Mr. Reed's comments is that if it is wrong
for a conservative church leader to state his political views: why is OK for
Hillary Clinton's chief stooge to use BYU as a bully pulpit to press his left
wing political agenda. Shouldn't both parties have to play by the same rules.
Reid has been saying all along that the war in Iraq is unjust. Turns out he's
right. I have a son in Iraq who loves his country and I am proud of his service.
Bush is wrong and his stance on Iraq seems to be motivated by the interests of
the multi national corporations instead of the preservation and support of our
freedoms. I voted for Bush twice and I am sorry that I did. Thanks to BYU for
letting Reid stand up and present another view.
locals , or we and they ...like in SE Utah ,this guy wouldn't stand a chance and
would be banned from the good ol' boy system in place. but good try
Hopefully at the dinner on Monday night Reid drafted a proclamation on Globel
warming for President Hinckley.
He has no experience in the military but states that the military has failed in
Iraq. His whole career has been in politics except for a few short years as a
lawyer. He has no moral compass as Sean says. He simply panders to MOVEON.ORG.
History Buff,You are right about the quote. I corrected myself a few
posts down (or up now, I guess).I am not against capitalism. I am
all for capitalism.What I am against is capital-seeking businesses
being let into the political process. Lobbyists have used the Republican party
to further their own interests. And that is a shame.There is much
value in the principle of separation of church and state. There would be at
least that much value in the principle of separation of business and state.
Ah yes, always something "supported by scripture." Next we'll hear about a
talking snake in The Garden or man giving birth (Adam's rib). Why not try to
take others into consideration and stay the civic course on these blogs? That
way it won't sound like pontification and might actually make some real world
To Anonymous:The "welfare" clause you allude to isn't in the Declaration
of Independence. It's in the Constitution.I presume you are
employed by a company that is either (1) big business, or (2) aspiring to be a
big business. (If you're not employed, then you are either retired or living on
the largess of government.) Since I presume you are employed, then your being
employed is most certainly something in the interest of public good: frees gov't
resources for needed services.Liberal philosophy is that money in
the economy belongs to the government (after all, by whose Constitutional
authorization is money printed -- and I'm not talking Federal Reserve) and they
make a determination as to how much you get to keep. Conservative
philosophy is that the money you earn is yours and you should keep most of it.
The Constitution provides for government functions that are paid by taxes
(infrastructure, etc.), but overall, I believe the republican philosophy to be
more honest. It's not government's job to "provide the general welfare," just
to "promote it." Only a fool ignores the poor. A bigger fool
supports indolence common to the poor. In DOI, Pursuit of Happiness
is property rights.
Just a couple of quick thoughts. I have followed Mr. Reid for years and never
knew from his actions or words that he was LDS until a few years ago. I have
found him to be untruthful, vitriolic, and a rather despicable person. But that
is all I know of him and I will allow the Savior to be his ultimate judge. All I
can do is judge his public personna and the words that he uses. To me, abortion
(the taking of life) is an extremely important issue and far much more than
global warming which man can not affect anyway. I personally have believed for
years that liberalism, the way in which it is practiced today, is evil. It is
the devil having perfected his craft and winning the hearts of people with a
destructive message that holds just enough appeal and truth. It is a philosphy
of man that places the government in the role of deity. And, to the person that
said that abortion rights are irrevocable, you obviously do not know about the
way the Supreme Court works. It is not irrevicable.
It may be of interest to those that think "Republican are too cozy with big
bisiness" that it is that business that provides JOBS and money to those that
want to work. Big business is owned by stockholders, who also are your
neighbors. Big business is not an "enemy", is is a vehicle for all of us to
support our families and way of life. If that is not general welfare, I am not
sure what is. Harry doesn't understand the basics of life!
Isn't it interesting how the gay issue always comes into focus today? The fact
is, persons secure with their masculinity or feminity couldn't care less about
what someone else does with theirs.
I wonder how his remarks would stand a comparison to scripture when we look at
moral principles (abortion and same-sex relationships) or the political
philosophies of men in context of "cleansing the inner vessel" or how to deal
with "robbers".I think I will stand with the Prophets including
Brother Reid mentions Joseph Smith. It is important to mention that when Joseph
Smith went to Martin Van Buren, a Democrat, to redress the wrongs done to the
Mormons in two states, he was flatly turned down. Joseph said his refusal to
even try to help would result in his not winning another election, and he
didn't. In 1840 he ran against William Harrison, a Whig, who defeated Van Buren.
Was it any wonder that the Saints of that time also voted against Democrats and
most of them wanted to be Republicans in 1896 when Utah became a state. But one
of the provisions for statehood was an even division of Demos and GOP. It is no
longer 50/50 in the Beehive State because most Utahns are conservative and the
Democratic Party long ago moved away from conservatism. Brother Reid is an
albatross flying in the wrong direction. We suspect he will also lend his
support to Mrs. Clinton when she runs for president and vote against Mitt
Romney, who is the best candidate out there.
Oh come now, dball.NOTHING else matters?Harry Reid
wasn't saying that abortion is right or that gay marriage is right. In fact, you
may note that he is pro-life.But there are other issues too. Surely
you don't think that Christians shouldn't care about issues like war and
peace?Harry Reid didn't say that we shouldn't take a stand on
abortion and gay marriage. What he did say was that we shouldn't take a stand
ONLY on abortion and gay marriage.And it just might be possible that
in world we live in right now (with courts deciding those two issues), the
stands that our legislative officials take on other issues will actually have
more impact on our lives.
It's not about right vs. left or Republican vs. Democrat, it's about individual
liberties vs. collectism and tyranny. Individual have rights intrinsicly, and
delegate there rights to our government as a master does to a servant. If i do
not have a right, neither does the government. If i cannot force my neighbor to
pay my rent because i am crippled, the government cannot do it for me. I may
believe that those who do not share my religious beliefs will be damned, but
does that mean I can force my religion upon them? Of course not! I may believe
that gay marraige is wrong and destructive, but as long as it's concentual, I
have not right to force my opinion, only to persuade. The entire purpose of
government is to protect my rights. NOTHING ELSE. Not determine how I live, what
I do with my money or free time. Allowing natural law and consequence to teach
me what is correct or advantageous is best. People have the right to destroy
there own lives as long as they don't take the rights of others. That is
constitutional law, that is the gospel, that is church doctrine.
Brother Reid mentions Joseph Smith.
And by "Declaration of Independence," I (Anonymous a few posts up) clearly meant
"preamble to the Constitution." :-)
Harry Reid said that people in the church have to understand there are issues
more important than abortion and gay marriage.Apparently Mr. Reid has not
read the family proclamation. He needs to reread the last paragraph. Because
if that is true nothing else matters.
Question. Given the choice between Guiliani and Clinton, who is Utah going to
vote for? Both are pro choicers, both are pro gay marriage, but only one is
anti war. It will be interesting to see who Utah sees as the most moral
What would Hinckley say (says "these comments...")?Absolutely nothing. Who
would want the IRS on their backs wanting to strip them of their tax shelters?
To Revise that thinking:I definitely dont think that all
rank-and-file Republicans forget about the country's poor. I also dont think
that all Democratic policies are good for the poor.However, I do
think that too many of the Republican party leaders are too closely wedded to
big business. Big, big business. Oil, pharmaceuticals, Wall Street.And these big businesses are in the business of making money (as they should
be, they are businesses). In fact, these industries are in the business of
making money at all costs, at anyone's expense.The interest of big
business is not the public good (or as the Declaration of Independence put it,
the "common welfare"). That is why it is dangerous for our politicians to be
cozying up to them.When I said that Republicans too often forget the
countrys poor, I did not mean to imply that Democrats have this issue figured
out. Far from it. Rather I meant that Republicans have caused many problems in
this area by simply ignoring the effects that favoritism for business can have
on everyone else. Far too many LDS Republicans seem to be choosing to ignore the
consequences of our societys lust for riches.
I agree with Senator Reid when he said that we focus too much on abortion and
gay marriage. The current Republican party gets the public to focus so much on
issues that they don't really affect (the courts do). They've got us all afraid
that everybody's going to turn gay if the Dems are in power. I think I've
decided in my relatively short time here on this earth that some people are just
born different and that we just don't understand why(Elder Oaks made mention of
this in a news release) and making gay marriage legal isn't going to have the
same effect as a government offering incentives to a company (in the form of tax
breaks, etc...) to attract their business.I believe these two issues are
important but we, as a nation, are forgetting about the "poor among us." This
is one of the main teachings of the New Testament, BOM, and D&C. "Who has done
it unto the least of these..."
Look at the filth both sides are posting on this -- everyone is speaking with
god-like phrases. Is this the Mormon image we really should be putting out
there...?? Everyone believes that they are right. LDS believe they
are the only true church, so do Muslems, Catholics, etc...all confirmed by
feelings/experiences.What people need to realize is that EVERYONE
thinks this way. No comment board will change that. To those that
are LDS: What would Hinkley say?
Hurrah for Brother Reid.Hurrah to BYU for inviting him.Shame on those who would allow only speakers who pass a particular political
litmus test. I remind them that it was not long ago that Utah had political
leadership that was more often Democratic than Republican. MANY members of the
church hierarchy have been Democrats. When I joined the church, two of the three
members of the First Presidency were, as were my bishop and stake president.
Like Brother Reid, I also was uncomfortable with Elder Benson when he was in his
period of high partisanship and diviseveness. But as he came closer to the
presidency he moderated his tone, and as church president he was not the
polarizing figure he had been. It amazes me that some in the church
are joining with those voices who call the church a cult, who have redefined the
good word "conservative," giving it a harsh and intolerant cast, the same kind
of people who drove the church from the Midwest. And Mitt Romney's courting of
them will backfire on him, because they will not let him into their club.I am not a Democrat. I am a faithful LDS member.
Do you honestly think that Republicans forget about the country's poor? Try
thinking of conservative positions on welfare in terms of "give a man a fish and
you feed him for a day; TEACH a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."
Look what happened in New Orleans: the city was basically a welfare state, where
the government handed out benefits like they were candy, and when Katrina hit,
half of the city's citizens had nowhere to go because they hadn't built their
own financial foundation by which they could recover from the destruction. We
Republicans firmly believe that taking care of the poor in the way you see
it--giving people free money--does far more harm than good. We even feel that
way in the church. In the church, recipients of church welfare funds or supplies
have to work for what they get, and are instructed in ways to staty out of
financial trouble. Giving government handouts makes people rely on government to
take care of them. That teaches people that work isn't necessary because you can
just get everything you need for free anyway. Republicans do not forget about
the poor, they help in diffferent ways.
There have been a lot of sanctimonious and self-righteous postings against Harry
Reid. This should not bother otherwise rational persons. Don't forget, these
same people (Reid-bashers) once believed weapons of mass destruction were
plentiful in Iraq.
At the time the war broke out, President Hinckley spoke about how to reconcile
the apparent contradiction between the scriptures "Renounce war and proclaim
peace...(D&C 98:16)"and "Defend your families, even unto bloodshed...(Alma
43:47)" He stated "there are times and circumstances when nations are justified,
in fact have an obligation, to fight for family, for liberty, and against
tyranny, threat, and oppression." However, I remember listening very carefully
for an outright endorsement of this war, which I never heard. He did say that
this (Iraq) war is a continuation of the war on terror, but that is as far as it
went. It is easy to suppose that there was a tacit endorsement, based on the
timing of the talk and his strong statements that there are times when defense
is justified. But the emphasis of the talk was to pray for peace among all of
the nations, leaders, and people of the world. He also emphasized that it was
healthy to have dissent and various opinions.
To "I'm glad im not mormon": You're wrong in thinking that as a Mormon you are
required to think a certain way. Brigham Young taught that Mormonism accepts
truth wherever it comes from, and that would include science, politics, etc.
Just as there are physical laws that govern the universe, there are spiritual
laws that are in effect. If you violate such a law, you'll suffer the natural
consequences. Lie or steal, and you'll suffer lack of self-respect, for one
thing. The "90-year-old" man you disrespect, through experience and
inspiration, can teach you much about the spiritual laws you should be obeying.
He doesn't want to force you to do good, but he certainly has the duty to teach
you what is right. You have the right to reject his advice and live the way you
wish. You even have the right to become an ex-Mormon and criticize the LDS
church and its leaders at every opportunity. But there are consequences to
that, too. Question: As an ex-Mormon do you still believe in God? Christ?
Ancient revelation? Modern revelation? Life after death? If so, do you
actively support a religious group that strives to make the world a better
We Mormons should be acutely aware that both political parties are utterly
corrupt. The right is filled with sectarian hate-mongers who would, if it were
not the restraints secular society places upon the, be tarring and feathering
Mormons and burning down our homes and churches. It is these good
"conservatives" who won't vote for Romney because he is LDS.Likewise, the socialist Democrats are part of the dangers Ezra T. Benson
warned us about that will make America's constitution hang by a thread one day.
Reid's willingness to badmouth a prophet doesn't speak well for him. One
doesn't speak evil against the Lord's anointed without negative spiritual
consequences.Looking back at Joseph Smith's 1844 candidacy, the
predominant reason for it was to prevent the political parties of his day from
dividing the Church over political differences. The battle of leftist and
right-wing demagogues will be the undoing of America, as political compromise
becomes all the more unlikely and each side perceives the other as the ultimate
evil. Mormons should vote, but neither the Democrats or Republicans are worthy
of that show of support.
One message that is very clear from the Book of Mormon is that a society that
forgets about its poor is on the verge of destruction. One message that is very
clear from the Doctrine & Covenants is that we have weighty stewardships over
what the Lord has given us: possessions, positions, and the earth itself.In my understanding of the gospel, I ignore these principles at my own
risk.One message that is very clear from all scripture is that all
life is sacred. One message that is very clear from modern revelation is that
the traditional structure of the family is sacred.In my
understanding of the gospel, I ignore these principles at my own risk.In today's political climate, it seems nearly impossible to find a political
party that gives enough emphasis to both sets of principles (Republicans tend to
ignore the first set, while Democrats often ignore the second). So I choose to
be independent.But I still want to be an active citizen and vote.
So, like Harry Reid, I choose to support whatever party seems to me to have the
most potential to actually accomplish some good in a given situation.
RE:KMACI'm not sure your read my comment before you wrote. I just
re-read it and no where did it say I believe all Utah Mormons act the same. You
may feel that way. I lived there for 40 years and know first hand there are
about 10% that do not.I did state that on my mission I was told all
Utah Mormons were closed minded, but in the real world they are not. I do think that the 160 comments (most of them anti- Reid) should be forwarded
to the First Presidency and a new church policy should be written using these
majority rules comments:AFTER SENATOR REID'S ILL FATED TALK AT BYU,
FROM HERE ON FORWARD ALL MEMBERS MUST BE A REGISTERED REPUBLICAN OR YOU WILL BE
EXCOMMUNICATED. YOU MUST BELIEVE AS WE DO, SAY AS WE DO, ACT AS WE SAY AND YOU
WILL ALL BE SAVED. Oh wait wasn't this the plan in the
pre-existence?I went searching the bible for those Jesus was
hateful, spiteful, and only loved those who agreed with him scriptures and
setting it straight LV Jesus didn't care for a liar but he still loved all no
This guy pretty well disgusts me, and that is hard to say since I am LDS too.
Why does he tell BYU students, on BYU campus, not to worry about two extremely
important moral issues like abortion and same sex marraige? The church adamantly
opposes these issues, and publicly. Doesn't the church also teach self-reliance,
and yet he would have a national health care plan that would be a large leap
toward gov't dependence, and much higher taxes. Doesn't the Book of Mormon state
that high taxes are "grevous to be borne"? I am insulted and offended that he
would have the arrogance to say those things on our campus. The gall of this
man! Go ahead and trash President Benson. Why stop there though, why not trash
President Hinckley and Monson too? They believe in conservative moral, family
values too. They are political party neutral but in no way are they moral values
neutral.People are welcome to have their own beliefs and vote how
they wish. Just know what kind of values you are voting for (abortion, same-sex
marraige, gov't dependence, higher taxes, retreat and surrender, and all the
Harry Reid reveals his true thoughts on past church leaders to a reporter. He
states that President Benson, called of God, was guilty of leading obedient
church members down the wrong path because Pres. Benson was too right wing.
Hmmm. Stop the tape! Red flag alert! I think I have heard all I need to hear
from Harry Reid. Oh, and if that doesn't do it for you then listen to this-
(according to Harry Reid) "Social Security is the greatest social program ever".
Wow! Say no more again.
No, JROD, the fact of the matter is the NeoCons are further right than Genghis
Khan. And down the road the country is going to have to pay the price for a
policy of preemption, torture, and shock-and-aweing civilians. Our country has
been duped by a group of megalomaniacs (almost all former CEO's of corporations)
who only care about the bottom line. Want to know how much $$$ Halliburton and
Lockheed Martin made last quarter?
The one thing that stood out to me was his comment on how the right wing, ultra
conservative evangelicals are not Christian. The sole purpose of that comment,
apart from his complete lack of respect for their religion, is to make it hard
for Mitt to become President. By trying to anger them, and setting himself up
as a spokesman for the LDS Church, he is trying to alienate the conservative
base that Romney is trying to cultivate. He needs to keep in mind that many of
them don't consider us to be Christian - he is only adding fuel to their fire by
these highly rhetorical and vitrolic statements.I'm a BYU alum
currently living in Nevada - having to put up with Pinky is an absolute
disgrace. I'm embarrassed to call him my Senator... I find it hard to reconcile
his pro-abortion, anti-marriage stance with that of the Church leadership.
the fact of the matter is that Mr Reid and the liberal democrats are so far off
the left that they even forget they are really supposed to be doing.. they are
even going agains the fore fathers of this country and not against some of our
prophets.. we have to support our military, they are doing a great job and i can
only imagine that it is way harder than one sitting in congress or at home may
think.. we have to deal with the problem now, so our children dont have to...
how many 9/11's is it going to take before the support is obtained...?? How many
innocenct people have suffer.. this is a great nations and as we all know and
heard..." FOR HIM TO MUCH IS GIVEN, MUCH IS REQUIRED" we that are LDS
should all support our candidate Mitt Romney, he may not be the best option,
with all the necessary experience, but surely he will be led by the spirit to do
what is right and much needed.
I knew Senator Reid before he was a senator. He openly stated his ambitions,
which were primarily to be a success as a politician. He was quick to embrace
the unfortunate practice of putting political success ahead of common decency.
Most politicians do so now, which is probably the reason for the low ratings our
politicians currently receive. I abhor the constant tearing down of others with
negativity to garner votes. That side of this man was given no attention in
this article, maybe appropriately so. Having said that, I see no reason for all
the venom in these comments. Would you say the same things face to face? I
keep asking myself why I waste my time reading comments on articles. Now I
intend to stop.
These postings are prime examples of how nasty and disgusting the political
climate in Utah has become.Reminds me of my favorite story where Christ
bodily threw all of the hypocrites out of the temple.
I am in shock and awe at the level of personal attacks directed against the
Senator on this blog. I have met him, and he is NOT pro-choice. But even if he
were, is it impossible to disagree with him in a civil manner. Yes, he has made
some inappropriate comments about Bush and others in the past, but is that the
excuse to continue to do the same now?Many of you seem to believe,
despite instruction from the leaders in the Church, that it is impossible to be
Mormon and a Democrat. One can have conservative moral views and believe that
education, the environment, providing for the poor, etc. are important issues.
Conversely, many republicans are socially liberal, including the likely nominee,
Giuliani (pro gay marriage, pro choice, married thrice, not supported by his own
Many on the Left are great people, good at their trade, worthy, charitable, good
neighbors. But when it comes to the political realities of our day, they don't
get it. That's not neccessarily their fault, they just don't get itAnd honestly, I don't mind engaging, hanging out or worshipping alongside
Liberals, but it does however scare me when they're in powerThat's
the difference bewtween Reid and your typical liberal. Reid has the power to shy
away from protecting us from our enemies (which is 10% of the Muslim world. a
lot of folks). Reid has the power to sacrifice our moral integrity. Reid has the
power to waste our valuable time and resources on the myth that man is
responsible for the slight increase on the earth's temperatureReid
is a man capable of alot of things, including being a righteous Latter Day
Saint. Running the House of Representitives and protecting me and my family,
however, are not things he's capable of
I've been highly critical of Bush, myself, although I'm a lifelong Republican.
Bush's "neo-conservative" policies, whether domestic or foreign, are not even
remotely based on those sound political principles of Constitutionally-limited
government and liberty and non-interventionism and such advocated by men like J.
Reuben Clark Jr. and Ezra Taft Benson. Or countless other Church leaders, to
some degree or another, for that matter. But for Harry Reid to accuse the
Brethren of leading our Church astray--well, I'm astounded, to say the least.
Mr Reid whole commentary has one fundemental flaw. The Democrat party is all
about taking away personal accountability and placing it with the government
because they know what is best. Whereas the LDS church teaches self sufficiency
and personal accountability. Members are encouraged to set aside money and food
in the event of a disaster or unexpected loss of income. They are also
encouraged to take responsibilty in all their financial obligations and to pay
them off and not try to blame someone else for their poor financial
decisions.Also for someone who believes in not pushing his views on
others he should have a major problem with the Democrat approach to
redistribution of other people's money.He has a right to believe as
he sees fit but he should know better than to try to claim that somehow members
are blindly obedient.
Yea! Senator Harry Reid to the rescue! Trust me; Ezra Taft Benson will get the
last laugh on Reid. I'll accept Benson's insight 1 trillion to 1 over Reid's
any day. This has nothing to do with "Republicrats" --excepting for a few
politicians from both parties they are pretty much the same.Socialists like Reid are nearly indistinguishable from genuine Communists.
Both believe in the involuntary/forced redistribution of wealth through income,
sales, property, payroll, social security, Medicare, and a maize of other taxes.
Both believe the government does a better job than the citizens could possibly
do for themselves on a voluntary basis.It's a flawed philosophy
because the hand-out lines grow longer while the debt spirals and prices
increase. The illegal printing of paper currency only exasperates the
problem.Too bad we have all these taxes and paper money. Without
them, Reid could only focus on the protection of life, liberty, and the pursuit
of happiness for all Americans.
My comment is for all those that seem to think that Senator Ried's comments on
abortion and gay marriage were immoral. Senator Ried's point was that morality
spans across more political agendas than just gay marriage and abortion. People
should use their moral judgment when considering ALL policy, including
healthcare and education. The problem is that most members just do
what their explicitly told by the Church (gay marriage/abortion) and then vote
against anything that costs them a little money. I personally think
it's immoral to let someone go without surgery because they can't afford it just
because I don't want to pay the taxes. I think healthcare is the moral
decision. It's immoral to not increase educational spending because I may pay a
few more dollars a year in income taxes. You may feel differently...fine.
People have various moral stance on issues. The whole point is that
the Church is explicit about a few moral issues and implicit about other moral
issues. Make sure you consider both in finding your political stance.
I think most comments are being mis-interpreted... being a conservative
Republican and clear open minded, have lived in various other coutries, it is
not a matter of being a close minded Utahan... we as LDS live as we do, not
because we are told or because we are threatened..we do live as we do and abide
by the priciples and standards because we elect to live this way and we see the
most fit way to live and raise a family. Our prophet Joseph Smith once said...
We teach them the priciples and they govern themselves. Yes, we should do our
part as citizens and members and vote against the so called " popular open
minded" we should stand for what is right and deep down inside even the liberals
know they are wrong and in sin, but they try to take as many down as they can.
As our current prophet said many times...as Jesus says, we do not hate the
sinners, but we hate the sin, and we all know perfectly clear what is right and
what is wrong.
You went to Vegas to understand Jesus?Did you find him at the
casino's, strip clubs, or the houses of ill repute?The spirit goes
where the spirit is Welcome. I have been to Vegas. Not the best place to find
Can someone please reconcile this for me:1) Conservative Republicans are,
for the most part, against abortion.2) Conservative Republicans do not
support teaching sex education in schools or making birth control readily
accessible to teens.3) The crime rate plummeted after abortion was
legalized in the United States.4) Many who seek an abortion are lower
income Americans and/or young teens.5) Conservative Republicans HATE
social service programs that aid these families.So isn't this logic
essentially forcing those who should not be parents or those who cannot afford a
child to do so?
I wholeheartedly agree with you KMAC. The problem is that there is a subgroup in
Utah that has become so enamored with "Democrats cannot possibly be good
Mormons" that these fools actually believe it. It's no wonder so many of them
tune in each day to hear offensive and divisive remarks from Rush Limbaugh.
Expressing a big "Thank You" to BYU for inviting Harry Reid to address the
students and faculty. We should be grateful to them for bringing to us prominent
people who choose to share their successful life stories and as a bonus choose
to share a sincere personal testimony of his or her beliefs. We should all
appreciate, (no matter our political views), Mr. Reid's generosity in beginning
with feelings that mattered most to him. Any additional opinions expressed by
Mr. Reid are his personal viewpoints that we can simply choose to accept or
reject. They are certainly secondary to those expressions that mattered most.
It's really that simple. For anyone to ridicule him, or anyone else, for
sharing their personal or political views is not Christlike. Rather, shouldn't
we emulate Christ's example, as President Samuelson and other BYU staff members
did, by showing equal respect to all invited guest speakers, as in this case by
extending an invitation to Mr. Reid as they previously had done for Mr. Chenney.
Our BYU president is a shinning example for us all to follow.
When people learn to mind their own business, the world will be a better place.
To "Only in Utah", Perhaps you should read the official position. The
last time I read it, it advised counsel with your Bishop and the Lord before
having an abortion. Now, how often is the Lord going to authorize an
No, Kirk. Reid was referring to government leaders taking us down the wrong
path. But Rush Limbaugh, no doubt would soundly agree with you in an attempt to
make the other side look bad.
Re: Dave in Vegas...Claiming that ALL Utah Mormon's act and think
the way you claim they do seems pretty judgmental to me. I think the
narrowmindedness of any "group" tends to come from a vocal minority. Most Utah
Mormons do think for themselves and treat others with respect.
Last year the LDS church leadership took a strong stand for a constitutional
amendment to define marriage as being only between a man and a woman. In fact,
they issued a statement that was read in all the congregations in the U.S urging
members to contact their representatives in the Senate and urge them to vote for
this Amendment? Now I ask you, how did Senator Reid vote for this important
piece of legislation that the LDS Church took an official public position on?
He voted against it. I'd like to put this in context. The
scriptures have many examples where the prophets of God went to the leaders of
government with inspired counsel for the benefit of mankind. And now this just
happened in our modern day society and what did our esteemed LDS senator say to
the prophets? He told them he believes he knows more that they do and he took
the adversarial position. In my opinion he's going to have some answering to do
in the next life for his wrong decisions. "Where much is given,
much is required."
I have no problem with church members being Democrats. What gets me is Reid's
assertion that the only reason many members of the church are conservatives is
because of church leaders that have "taken us down that path." In my opinion,
that just isn't accurate and it's very offensive. It's also very silly since the
church doesn't endorse a party and there are church leaders that are Democrats.
Most church members are conservative because the philosophy aligns much more
closely with what they believe, and not just regarding moral issues. The other
thing I disagree with is Reid's criticism of those that believe that the issues
of abortion and gay marriage are more important than global warming. I'm sorry,
I think that those issues are way more important. And not because any leader has
told me to think that way.
I am constantly amazed at the narrow, self-righteous world view that members of
the church have in Utah. Please, get a grip. May I please remind you that the
church is NOT against abortions as a whole; they are against abortions for the
wrong reasons. You need to stop listening to the right-wing whack-jobs. We
should be the first people standing up for safe, legal abortions, under the
proper circumstances. Additionally, have you so soon forgotten how
the saints were persecuted in the 1800's. How can you, in good conscience,
dictate morality to other people? If you don't support gay marriage, don't have
one. Otherwise, you are simply jumping on the same bandwagon as those who drove
the saints into the wilderness because they didn't want a "deviant" religous
group in their otherwise pure land.Do us all a favor and think
before you launch into your diatribe.
This is directed to those of you who think Harry Reid's position on abortion and
gays is okay. The homosexual powers that be will not end with wanting acceptance
they are going to see to it that our children will be taught this from
kindergarten on up.That it's okay and if you think otherwise. You and your
familys will be charged with a hatecrime. Barney Frank has already seen that law
put into effect with the help of the like of darling Harry Reid &TED Kennedy.
Wake up you people. The wolf is at the door.
How unbelievealy sad that so much ill-will could be directed towards a brother
in the gospel, considered worthy by his priesthood leaders to enter the temple,
whose children have atteneded BYU, served missions, and been sealed in the
temple to worthy companions. No gosepl principle condones or
authorizes such hatred, no matter how cautiously it is presented, nor does the
Church's strict political neutrality serve as the basis for such behavior. Seems to me that in our politics, as with so many other areas of our
lives, we would all benefit from reading and rereading the 121st Section of the
Doctrine and Covenants, paying particular attention to the last 25 verses, and
trying our best to ask, introspectively, how those words can have meaning in our
lives.If Senator Reid or any of his family members or firends were
to make it this far in this blogging thread, please know there are many readers
here full of respect and admiration for thoses of both political parties who do
the best they can to improve our Nation. Thank you!
Reid is the titular head of the Democratic Party-- a party that embraces gays,
lesbians, abortions, socialism, anti-gun ownership and anti-family values. The
party that believes that what's mine is yours. The party of Al Sharpton, Jesse
Jackson, and Rosie O'Donnell. The party the Hollywood elite support. Yep, that's
the party most Mormons want to belong to--the party Reid believes the majority
of Mormons will belong to. Not.
Q- What coalition has 3 members? A- The one representing Religion and
Family Values at the Democratic National Covention! Congratualations Harry for hanging in there. As for me and my house, we will
All of the "Rush Limbaugh-sounding Utahns" are embarrassing to the Church. The
Church (fortunately) now had more members outside the U.S. than inside and more
in non-Utah states than inside Utah - so there is a "watering down effect" of
the "Utah Mormon Caricatures" that seem to be all too real in here... How can
you publicly judge Senator Reid in terms of his spirituality, testimony or
conviction? You can judge him all you want on his stated political views and on
how he votes in the Senate, but you are straying into dangerous territory by
judging him "unfit" for membership in his Church. If you polled Church
membership worldwide, I guarantee that you'll garner a wide spectrum of
political views, with more in the "center" than anywhere else. There would
appear to be both "good and bad" in both of your parties. Instead of being so
polarized, I'd suggest more of you get involved with BOTH parties and work to
influence them to "do good".
Why is it when conservatives voice their opinions, it's always hate speech or
judging others? All the while the liberals can call names and spew malicious
vile until the cows come home and they are the darlings of the Democratic party.
I think that the volume of response to Reid's appearance at BYU is a testament
to why he should not have been invited. The Church teaches us to avoid
contention as far as Church doctrine. By the way, I think many of you are using
this discussion as a forum for expressing your anti-Mormon feelings and really
couldn't care less about Senator Reid. I'm just glad he is not in my Ward. I
can't imagine having him for a Sunday School teacher. I'm LDS conservative, a
Rush Limbaugh, Hannity fan and proud of it! As for you Jack Mormons, go on
loving Senator Reid; we'll leave the judgement to the Lord. The gospel does not
teach support of abortion and gay rights. READ the Proclamation to the Family.
I think that history has shown that whever a party in politics gains a majority,
corruption becomes excessive. To a certain extent, I feel the Republican Party
is now having troubles steming from this. If for no other reason then to keep
the Republican Party in check, I feel that it is good to have a opposing views
represented in our political system. However, the modern Democratic Party has
lately leaned so far to the left they are representing views that I feel our
morally corrupt and eccentric. All one has to do is listen to the verbal abuse
that the leadership in the Democratic Party regularly speaks about people of
religion. Tune into any left leaning radio talk show and it is common place to
ridicule God worshiping people. The Democratic Party has become a party that
promotes values that are detrimental to families, Our Society, and Religion.
They do this under the guise of "Freedom of Speech and Expression." Their
talking point word called "Progressive" is none other then then word
"Degressive" in disguise. Harry, in the words of Luke Skywalker "Come back from
the Dark Side!!"
Perhaps you can be a good Mormon and a good Republican, but you can't be a good
Christian and a good Republican. I'm amazed at the number of LDS
who simplistically think that just because Democrats are "evil," Republicans are
"good." Cuckoo! Time to wake up!
Reid is pro-abortion and pro-gay marriage.
Reids definition of think instead of blindly follow is Rationalization, not
reason w/study and faith. Faith is an action word, not blindness. If you've ever
witnessed an abortion you would not call it agency. Perplexed is just that be/c
the message of the BoM & Bible is If you take Christ & morality out of
government, something very dangerous fills the void and we are witnessing it
right now with our Socialistic experiment. What land swindling? As the misguided
Ezra Benson said government's use of power is FORCE. Force to "legally" do as he
wants while squashing all other's attempt to do the same and calling them
"criminals." Reid is a known factor in NV. This is not backbiting, its front
biting & this is what makes US great. BTW, it happens in other states also. Dave
in Vegas, if you missed hate in teh Bible read Matt 3:7, 12:34, 23:33, 3:7 among
others. Christ did not mince words with liars. Also, the religious right love
the Mormon vote. They may not like their doctrinal beliefs but they LOVE the
vote and the moral stances we have with them. BTW, Reid is pro-abortion and
pro-gay marriage. Watch his footsteps.
To Beam Me Up Scottie: Amen! Here's for brotherhood and good will.
It continually amazes me to find LDS Republicans criticizing Senator Reed.
Especially supporters of Mitt Romney.Can't you see that Senator Reed
is the balance to Governor Romney? Most of the criticism of
Governor Romney for being LDS can be handled by reference to Senator Reed.It is absolutely wonderful to have two strong LDS leaders representing
their paries at such high levels with very different views. It makes the
statement from the 1st Presidency concerning the political neutraility of the
Church concrete and real.
Harry Reid- Says hes pro-life, but denounced Alito who help upheld a
recent ban on partial birth abortions.- Implies that Joseph Smith would be
a liberal Democrat, and undermines President Benson, a past prophet, and Pres
Wilkinson (formter president of BYU).- Undermines the Churchs official
position against abortion and support of a Constitutional Ammendment favoring a
traditional definition of marriage by saying the Republican Party,They have
focused on just a few issues, flag-burning, gay marriage, abortionThe country
has gone beyond that to other issues.- While brave men and women fought in
combat in Iraq called the Iraq war lost and called the commander in chief a
liar.-Said Bush is driving people to the Democratic Party (even though he
presides over a Democratic Congress that has a 14% approval rating while Bush's
is at 34%)- May fit the profile of who President Hinckley referred to in
his General Conference talk War and Peace by saying It may even be that He will
hold us responsible if we try to impede or hedge up the way of those who are
involved in a contest with forces of evil and repression.
If reid wants healthcare nationalized, where will the candians go for their
healthcare, when they can't get quick and adequate care in Candada? Ask Reid
that one. Betcha you won't get a good answer.
To Reid supporter: In sunday school, I learn how to be self sufficent, not
dependent upon the church or government for my daily bread. Ried needs to
re-visit this concept.Secret war? LOL. AT least were not bombing
asprin factories in the middle of the night.
I used to be a democrate, until I got out of college and got a job. Then, my
thoughts were tuned into the high taxes I paied out to support those that could
work, but won't. Then I noticed the SSI deduction and was told "Don't worry. By
the time YOU retire, it won't be around". No, I hear I might have to pay for
irresponsible parents who choose to have cable TV, rather than purchase
healthcare for their kids. Stop the train, let me off. I'm out of cash.Yes, it is possible to be a good LDS and a liberal democrate. I've
known many. Good people, yes. Misguided with my cash? Youbetcha.
If you love Bush because his is pro-life and against gay marriage, consider
this: he has done nothing to prevent either. In fact gay marriage is now legal
in Mass. and nothing has been done to reduce the abortion rate. Bush says he
cares about these issues, but he does not.Please also consider that
the War looks more like a secret war to attain riches (Hel. 6: 17), than any
sort of liberation. There is genocide in Darfur, bloodly demonstrations for
democracy in Burma, proliferation of WMD, human rights abuses, etc. But Bush
only sees big contracts for his buddies and lots of oil.Please also
consider that issues which are important to Reid, (education, health care,
environment), are principles which are taught each Sunday. I see
absolutely no contradiction between being a liberal and being a member of the
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.Thank you Senator Reid
for your speech.
Keith's posting above exemplifies the danger in America today. Disagreeing with
the current Bush Doctrine gets you a "traitor" label. And these same poor NeoCon
souls refuse to see the similarities between what is going on today and what
happened in Fascist Germany and Italy. Is it presidential election time yet?
Senator Reid is correct about the truly far right. They dispise the Mormon
religion and have no problem denigrating our faith by telling us what we really
believe; that we aren't Christains; and that we are going straight to Hell. They
view all the good we do around the world as strictly vain acts of works. That
why business savy people like Mitt Romney would have a hard time winning over
the South - because of their views of Mormonism. They'll disguise their language
by saying he's a flip-flopper but what they really want to say is, "I could
never vote for a Mormon."
I'm bewildered that there can be so much hate and discord among LDS members
after such an uplifting and edifying General Conference. What a contrast!
Perhaps many who have commented on this blog did not watch conference? Whatever
happened to becoming a Zion people "of one heart and one mind"? What happened to
trying to see other people's point of view? Are we so caught up in our own
opinions that we can see clearly? President Hinckley has said: "We have been a
very quarrelsome and difficult people in our conflicts one with another. We so
need to turn to the Lord and look to Him." Annonymous blogs like this seem to
bring out the worst in people. Would we rail on and ridicule each other and
SHOUT at each other if we were all in the same room? If we could talk face to
face, would we be more civil? Would we find that we really have quite a lot in
common? Isn't America about compromise? P.S. Oh, and by the way, I
didn't leave the Republican party, it left me!
Im not so concerned about the vitriolic nature of the dialog that gets posted in
response to a subject such as Senator Reids visit to campus. Both political
parties have their faults and short comings. Both have extreme elements that
tend to dominate or hijack certain elements of their respective platforms. In
the case of Senator Reid though, I quickly lost respect for him, as a person and
political figure, shortly after his rise to prominence when he resorted to
personal name calling and ad homonym attacks. He renders himself much less
credible when he stoops to such antics. The recent example was using the Senate
floor to attack Rush. Senator Reid is an intelligent and thoughtful person I'm
sure, thus it is all the more astounding that he would take Rush out of context
to such a degree, all in the name of advancing his own partys political agenda.
It reduces civil dialog and discourse to its lowest common denominator.
You should be praising his name Keith, as a serviceman and especially as a
Mormon. He dares to break free, not of the doctrines of Christ, but of the
sub-cultural, man-made, constructions that are so often touted as doctrines.
The church has given each of us (as members) full sway (in either direction,
left or right) in the prerogative to go where our consciounses lead. Mine, and
apparently Reid's, has led me away from a "war" (occupation?) that was
ill-founded and will lead to nowhere but a terroris breading ground.Renounce war, proclaim peace!
Wow, I am truly impressed at the amount of hate leveled by supposed good members
of of the church against another. Of course he's a democrat so he should be
excommunicated because it states quite clearly in 1 Nephi 2:14 "Woe unto the
Liberals and Democrats for they are the minions of satan and are beyond
redemption and are deserving of hatred and loathing beyond all reason." And
wasn't it Alma the Younger that said "Hatred of those you disagree with is the
portal to heaven"?
Tell me what the following have in common with the Republican party ..anti-mormon propagandathe Iraq Warout sourcing of jobsfailure to solve social securitytax breaks for the wealthyimmagration amnestyAnswer: EVERYTHING!!!I used to be a
Republican. No more. Until the Dem's change their abortion and gay marriage
views I can't join with them either but I will say that both Harry Reid and
President James E Faust ( also a democrat) make a lot more sense than the likes
of Shawn Hannity and the nut cases that call themselves the religious right.
The faculty of BYU should follow the lead of the Brethren to not preach personal
political opinions rather than the subject matter to which you are deemed
expert. Many of the Universities in this country are already dominated by
left-leaning educators who openly disparage and trample upon conservatism.
Professors should check their political leanings at the classroom door and
simply teach and educate, not politicize. When the faculty openly aligns
themselves with a political ideology they render themselves less than neutral.
They polarize the educational environment and stifle the free flow of thought
Finally a topic of some real societal significance that draws more comments than
the latest story about BYU sports. Perhaps there is hope for DN readers.
This man is a disgrace to the United States of America. I am a practicing
Latter-day Saint and a veteran of Operation Iraqi Freedom and I say loud and
clear: Senator Harry Reid does not represent me as a service member nor as a
committed member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He should
be tried for treason and promptly removed from public office, so as to prevent
any damage he may do our nations defense. Shame on you Harry Reid and all
like (or absent) minded followers. There are men and women fighting and dying
for yours and the worlds freedom and all you can do is belittle their efforts.
You all ought to be ashamed.
I am a Republican and have never voted any other way for 30 years however after
8 years of Republican failures I am now listening more to people like Harry Ried
and less to propaganda artists like Shawn Hannity. If the Dems would change
their abortion and gay rights views I would switch parties in a heart beat. The
Republican party has lost its way and is being controlled more and more but the
right wing nut cases called the "christian right".
I agree with A.D. 34. I am also appalled at how some members of the church can
be so easily led astray from the teachings of the church by those who "come in
sheep's clothing". Reid's political views are a perfect example of what our
prophets have been so valiantly warning us against in modern times "those who
call good evil, and evil good". Reid and his parties' issues are a direct
contradiction to Christ's teachings. I do not live in Utah, and yes, there are
millions of us who live outside the state!
GWB, how poor your understanding of the pre-earth life is. There was no war to
determine if we would have agency here or not. The war was who would follow
Christ to earth and have agency. As if we all chose to follow Satan that Hev
Father would say OKay, Let's try it without agency this time. So I guess the
Lord is wrong by telling us what decisions to make re: Thou shalt not kill,
steal, covet, adulterate, honor father, etc. You are off your rocker. And Mr.
Let's Remember, Reid is not anti-abortion and he is pro-gay marraige. I know
him, I and my family have watched him before he even ran for Federal office, and
he continues to support those issues. He IS a chameleon and his side-stepping
the issue by saying that the courts have decided the issue is exactly why he
wants to block any Supreme Crt justice who may overturn the issue. They
routinely overturn their decisions on many topics. And Mr Prof if you see war as
a moral issue you need to read the Old Test and BOM more carefully: PHD. BTW
multiple members of the 12 are reigned in often.
I don't dislike Reid because he's liberal, but because he lies. He continually
attacks President Bush in a nasty fashion. He took a comment of Rush Limbaugh's
and made a total fabrication out of it. I am a Utah native living in Texas. My
dream has always been for my grandchildren to go to BYU, but I hope they can
find someplace safer for them to continue to have idealism and high morals.
Hmmmm. Utter silence about President Hinckly ever saying anything contradicting
his Iraq War being a just one statement.Maybe Reid is on to something.
Liberal, Dem, whatever. He most certainly is not speaking from some radical
fringe, and the overwhelming non-approval ratings (what is it today - 70% or
something?) would indicate the majority of America agrees with him.
Senator Reid, if you want people within your own religion to take you seriously,
then start acting more like a member of your own faith!! That begins with your
blatent anti-Bush personal attacks. How is that Christ-like? Then lets talk
about your support of the pro-choice/pro-homosexual elements within your party.
I mean, really, do you think active LDS voters will support your positions when
you talk, act and vote completely on the opposite side of almost everyone within
your own religion? And finally, stop hiding behind the feel-good, welfare, "womb
to the tomb" mentality that your liberal Democratic party touts! Face it, the
Dems don't want anyone to think for themselves unless it is in lock-step with
them. That "keep em on the farm" thinking will kill this country.
Now theres two losers. Enough Said!
My concern with Harry Reid is not that he is Democrat or even sees the world
from a liberal perspective. My concern is twofold. First, he actively espouses
far left wing ideaology and supports organizations that are totally against what
the Gospel teaches. In his role as Senate Majority Leader, you have no idea
that Mr. Reid is even LDS! Instead, he portrays himself as someone with values
aligned with Moveon.org and those types of far left organizations. This is a
big concern to me. Second, he is mean spirited. I have really been offended by
some of the things he has called Pres. Bush. To publically call a man a lier
doesn't seem to fit the teachings and values that we have as members of the
Church. While speaking at BYU, he should have been asked some very tough
questions about his positions. He can't have it both ways, namely, be an active
LDS person but then support ideologies that are in direct opposition of what the
I am sure he is a great church member and I can't judge him in that the arena
nor should anyone else.But he has been a lousy Senator and done
little during his time as majority leader to improve our nation. I throw him in
with Orrin Hatch who is another Mormon Senator that is lousy and done nothing
great his past 3 terms.I am sure there are better LDS men and women
who could address the issues better for the USA if they were elected to office.
Reid and Hatch need to retire yesterday.
I know for a fact that President Hinckley was quoted as saying the Iraq war "was
a just one."This of course, was way before certain facts such as no WMD's
were ever found and many other conflicting facts came to light. Pardon my
ignorance, but has President Hinckley mentioned anything since regarding this
Thanks to BYU Undergrad (11:32 AM) suggesting people read Harry Reid's talk.Clark (11:40 AM) accurately represented the views of many of us who have
lived outside Utah.I never heard the vitriolic comments by or
directed toward LDS Church members while living outside Utah before moving back
to Utah. We have enjoyed the Sacrament Meetings in the Anaheim 3rd and 1st Wards
and Barstow 1st and 2nd Wards where LDS members (as a whole) treat everyone more
kindly than happens in too many places within Utah.
I left Utah for Las Vegas with 100,000 Mormons because of the close mindedness
of Utah Mormons. On my LDS mission I was always told my opinion
didn't matter because I was a Utah Mormon. It upset me. Listen to
you people, and ask yourself what would Jesus say or do? From the
comments on Mr. Reid's speech Jesus would be saying I hate Democrats, anyone who
believes differently than I do about Gays, Abortion, the war in Iraq! I missed
anger and hate in the bible from Jesus, in fact I'm not sure the book of Mormon
had it either.Isn't being a true Christian or being able to listen
to opposing views and be able to re-affirm your position stronger? Most Mormons feel that Pres. Bush supports their beliefs, but as I read he
follows the religious right. If I'm reading the news right they HATE Mormons and
think they are a cult.How many Democrats tear down the Mormon
church? Not living in Utah anymore I can see that possibly the
people on my mission were correct, my opinion was very short sighted from living
there.I think I now understand what Jesus taught.
I took BYU Prof's advice and read the New Testament. I learned about
Armageddon. I think it might refer to a war...
I knew it wouldn't be long before some catholic-bashing would enter into this
blog discussion. Perplexed J.D. unfortunately speaks for too many in this
community who focus on this sort of nonsense. It's much easier than look at
one's own group and expect positive change.
I wonder how many Israelites made fun of Moses's inability to speak well. Just
as well Harry Reid isnt chosing Prophets.
For those who proclaim to be "the chosen people" there certainly are some nasty
ones in their group.Never seen such back-biting in my life.
To: "GLAD I'M NOT A MORMON"I think tho protest too much????
I stand corrected. Secularism is evil. I now support requiring all publicly
funded schools to teach religious doctrine and requiring all government
gatherings to begin with a prayer. The new national religion will be
Catholicism. Those who disagree will be prosecuted.
Get a grip folks. Once and for all Harry Reid is not pro abortion or in favor
of gay marriage. He is a democrat but he personally does not favor those issues.
What exactly is wrong with that? Can one be a Republican and not agree with
every position the Republican party takes? Yes and Yes again. This dialogue
makes me want to vote Democrat. And to the many who think you cannot be a
Mormon and a Democrat please think again. I stand by my previous statement that
I would vote for Harry Reid over George Bush any day of the week. And once
again I am currently holding a temple recommend.
Wow. Reading these comments makes me glad I'm leaving Utah in two months.
Let's all get over the idea that you can't be a good Mormon and a Democrat.
Even if it were true, what does it matter to you? You're not giving him his
temple recommend interview. You don't have to support him. I'm a conservative
who respects President Bush while having serious issues with many of his
policies. I also very much respect Senator Reid after attending the forum
yesterday. I didn't agree with him on a lot of things, but overall I thought
his talk was excellent and he was right on regarding a number of issues. So
while I'm still a conservative, I say HURRAH for Mormon Democrats!!! Hopefully
there will be more of you in the future and we'll learn to look beyond political
differences. But either way, LDS people commenting on this article, let's quit
the bickering, accusations, and name-calling. That is certainly not consistent
with the doctrines of our Church.
What happened to the older comments posted on this story yesterday (October
9th)? They are gone now. Why has the story been revised today? Is that why
yesterday's comments are gone?
Ok Dale, stop judging those who apparently are judging Harry Reid.
Harry Reid, Are you honest in your dealings with your fellow man? As a
politician, your greatest skill is the ability to lie with that transparent
straight face. I lived in Nevada and I was ashamed of you every minute I was
there. Oh by the way, how are you and your son doing with those land swindles?
I have no respect for a guy who holds himself up as a member of a church and
through his actions in the public eye brings disgrace on that church. I can't
recall any other LDS politician who spent so much time disrespecting our
soliders and fellow politicians. It is a shame that he can't be more like Mr
Lieberman. Mr Lieberman is an example of the civility that is lacking among
many of our modern day politicians.
The sad part of so much of what I read is the hatred spread by people. Why is it
nesecary to turn to name calling either by Mr. Reid towards Pres Bush or by
readers towards Mr. Reid. Here is our biggest challenge, we no longer want to
allow people to have their beliefs, their opinions, If you are not with with me
then you are my enemy, so we turn to spewing hatred. Is it not possible to
disagree with someone and still have them be a good person?Very
Interesting that when Dick Cheney comes to town there is no respect from the
Democrats, but the Republicans at least show a little courtesy and dont picket
this guys speech. When are the Demos going to clean up thier act and not play so
Before all of you start throwing rocks at Reid, remember that there is as much
rhetoric in this article as the news writer claims there was in Reid's talk.
Although I wasn't at the press conference afterwards, I was at the
forum assembly and I can assure you that this article is extremely biased to the
traditional republican point of view. I felt that Reid's address
was one of standing for one's principles (as he has done regardless of his union
or political affiliations) and warning us to think rather than blindly follow.
A major portion of his talk was devoted to telling us HIS political views and
explaining why he stands by them (never in a tone of judgment of disagreement).
I don't agree with the writer of this article that he was attacking
former LDS political leaders. In fact, I believe that he was applauding them
and recommending that we follow their lead in taking a personal stance on the
issues. Like previous writers on this blog have argued, go and read
his words yourself before taking a stance based on a biased writer's
I don't know about this guy. There's a whole lot of compartmentalization going
on within this guy when he belongs to a church that definitely feels that
abortion and gay marriage are moral (meaning serious) threats to the American
family, but then dismisses them as unimportant. Sure the economy
and the American dollar are important to all of us, but it's hard to walk away
from infanticide and men marrying men and say that we live in a good society
because our bank accounts are fat and the polar bears are walking on solid ice
We watched Senator Harry Reid on KBYU yesterday and were impressed by the polite
reception BYU gave him.Harry Reid praised Ezra Taft Benson "while serving
as an Apostle serving in President Eisenhower's cabinet".Sen. Reid
said "The invasion of Iraq was the worst foreign policy blunder in our country's
history" (without mentioning George Bush). His opinion of the wrong path of some
LDS leaders was NOT part of his speech but was a comment given in a press
meeting AFTERWARD. He did NOT critize Ezra Taft Benson - The President of the
Church.I had served one year in Vietnam in the US Army and was VERY
offended when Governor George Romney said the US Military had "brainwashed" him.
Shortly after beginning my 2nd one year in Vietnam I realized that
George Romney was a rare politician who spoke the truth about the War in
Vietnam.Senator Reid and Governor Huntsman are good examples that
Democratic and Republican parties EACH have a few, good, honest politicians.
Stop imposing your secularism on the rest of us then
It's hard to believe that there are still those who literally believe in a
"talking snake" in The Garden and belief in a white haired old man who lives in
the clouds who hides on everybody and throws people into everlasting fire ---
because he loves them. Were people asleep in school when they were being taught
So its OK to allow people to kill babies (3,700 per day in the USA), but we
should be upset that our soldiers are fighting against oppressive governments
and terrorists that want to enforce their beliefs on everyone!
Maybe the LDS church's standards have slipped when it comes to giving temple
recommends. I always thought the church taught "love thy neighbour". With the
name calling Mr Reid engages in he is certainly lacking in that department. I am
surprised that someone did not tap him on the shoulder when he started to
criticize your prophets. What is BYU going to allow next... a speech from an
anti- Christ explaining to students Christ did not really exist? After all, do
you not believe your Prophets are Christ's/ God's spokesmen on earth?
People seem to forget that the law of the land is suppose to be the
Constitution, not the Bible. The Bible may have influenced the framers, but
their main concerns were taxation and religious freedom. I do not understand
why conservative members of the church, not just the LDS church, insist on
imposing their religious views on society as a whole. If you personally choose
to have conservative religious views why should those views be forced upon
society as a whole? That seems to be counter intuitive to the framer's intent.
Live your life by your beliefs and allow others to do the same.
7 Now there was no law against a mans belief; for it was strictly contrary to
the commands of God that there should be a law which should bring men on to
unequal grounds. 8 For thus saith the scripture: Choose ye this day,
whom ye will serve. 9 Now if a man desired to serve God, it was his
privilege; or rather, if he believed in God it was his privilege to serve him;
but if he did not believe in him there was no law to punish him. 10 But
if he murdered he was punished unto death; and if he robbed he was also
punished; and if he stole he was also punished; and if he committed adultery he
was also punished; yea, for all this wickedness they were punished. 11
For there was a law that men should be judged according to their crimes.
Nevertheless, there was no law against a mans belief; therefore, a man was
punished only for the crimes which he had done; therefore all men were on equal
To everyone here that is questioning if you can be a good Mormon and Democrat:
YOU DO REALIZE THAT YOU ARE GOING AGAINST CHURCH DOCTRINE AND TEACHING? Church leaders read the same script every year telling people to be
involved in politics, regardless of what party it is. Why are you able to
disagree on this point and be a good Mormon, but not disagree with a stance like
gay marriage. QUIT PICKING AND CHOOSING!
Who cares that Reid is LDS, that's not the issue. There's a lot of members of
the church who are nothing short of political nut jobs. They may be worthy,
kind, great neighbors, the whole bit; but when it comes to the political
problems and realities we currently face, those on the left are absolutely
clueless. Great people, but politically stupid, Mormon or not.And I
don't mind the Left living in the same country as I do, as long as they're not
in power. I have no problem shopping, hanging out or worshiping with a political
nut as long as he/she isn't in a position to to impliment their absurdityThat is what makes Reid different. He is in position to sacrifice our
country's security. He is in position to sacrifice our country's moral
integrity. He is in position to waste people's time and resources with the myth
that man is responsible for the slight increase in the earth's temperatureGreat man. Dangerous political nut
"We believe in agency" and therefore we should have no laws or punishments? If
someone kills, we should let it happen because "we believe in agency"? I
disagree.If you saw someone trying to kill a defenseless child,
would you let them because "we believe in agency"? Watch the defenseless fetus
open it's mouth to scream as they chop it to pieces and tell me that's not one
of God's children who just got their chance to live get killed and then tell me
that we should not only let that happen but should support it. I couldn't
disagree with you more.It's a disgusting practice that should go the
way of slavery. Most people now believe slavery is disgusting and that those
who engage in it should be punished and I hope people will think the same of
abortion some day and pass laws to punish those who engage in the act the same
way we punish people who kill other people for convenience. With so many
parents willing to adopt, why kill? For convenience and selfishness.I do agree that it would be nice for politicians to do their job, represent
the people, hold to correct values.
People on these pages seem to be making sweeping generalizations about each
other. No one says anything about voting for only the letter behind each name.
No one says Reid is a bad member and Hatch is good because of the letter behind
their name.What a silly and simplistic argument. For those of you
who think Christ doesn't sanction war at times, you don't know your scriptures
very well. For those claiming not to judge others, again, you don't understand
the scriptures. By their fruits ye shall know them.For the people
who flame that if you oppose Reid one is for Bush is ridiculous. One can oppose
both!For the Rush/Coulter haters out there, please provide concrete
evidence of your assumptions. Then please provide evidence that MoveOn.org, Air
America, Media Matters are not people with an agenda and spew propaganda. I
think you've watched too much PMSNBC.The issues are deep and
widespread but the comments on these pages are just the little branches. Want to
solve the issue, get to the roots and then you can strengthen the greatest
country in the world!
To those who see a huge struggle between religion and politics it may be a
surprise for you to know that you do FULLY EXPRESS your religion (your beliefs
or your faith) in how you are politically. What you really are is what you are
politically.If you separate them then they can only operate in a
mind that is compartmentalised or be in a state of schizoprenia.
I am amazed at the people who are saying BYU is a bastion of liberalism and that
they don't want their children to go there. What am I missing here? BYU is
considered one of the MOST conservative universities on the planet. Which
bubble would you rather your children to be educated in? Church teachings
encourage LDS members to live in the world, be engaged in civic issues, and be
connected to our community and neighbors (yet not be of the world). How can you
be engaged if you don't understand issues from multiple points of view? How can
we defend views and beliefs if we don't understand differing points of view and
how to counter opposing views? Also, there are some issues that are ambiguous
and we have no clear definitive guidance and a left to "be anxiously engaged in
a good cause" and "are not commanded in all things." The mentality that
we should "hole up" and shelter ourselves from the outside world is deeply
disturbing and actually goes contrary to the teachings of President Hinckley.
Look at Colorado City as an example of the outcome of that mentality.
At the beginning of Bush's War on Iraq, President Hinckley said, "this war is a
just one." Not long afterwards he was invited to Washington to receive a medal.
It doesn't take an overworked imagination to connect the dots and wonder if a
political party is being endorsed.
"Beware of False prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly
they are ravening wolves..." Beware of of those that call good, bad
and evil, right. For me its easy to discern which is true.Apostles
and Prophets have led us astray? Gay marriage and Abortion are not important
issues? Global warming and health care are the greatest issues facing us
today?Having just watched General Conference, the contrast in
message could not be more clear.Take Senator Reid's speech for what
it was, a prominant Democrat leader sharing his beliefs. A good man, probably?
An inspired religious leader, absolutely not. For "ye shall know
them by their fruits"
Response to remarks by Brother Reed;We do not have any right to compel
others to be charitable by forcefully taking the fruits of their labors by
taxation and giving it to others. The plan to force others to be good was Satins
plan which we rejected in premortality. Brother Reed has a good heart and noble
desires but his means to accomplish them are contrary to the fundamental
principles of the gospel. Such a course is tantamount to slavery. Americans are
the most charitable people on the face of the earth and give billions of dollars
a year to charitable causes of their own freewill. In the LDS Church we can
donate to Humanitarian Services, the Perpetual Education fund, and pay generous
fast offerings to assist the poor. These programs are exceptionally well managed
with virtually no waste. President Benson who Brother Reed disparaged to the
national press after the assembly was a righteous man who understood these
sacred principles better than Brother Reed.
It is a very good thing the LDS church does not endorse candidates or political
parties. Neither democrats nor republicans have all the answers and both are
extreme in their positions. There needs to be more meeting in the middle by
both sides and a presidential candidate from a third party.
"Just do as you are told and everything will be just fine" is the Utah credo.
Step outside the guidelines and you will be punished severely. Stay within the
lines - the lines are your friends. Stay within the lines - the lines are your
friends ...(repeat as often as needed)
I agree with his statement that we need to forget about abortion, etc. only
because of what BYU student already mentioned... we believe in agency. But I
can't stand either party right now, so his assuming that republicans will change
to democrats because of Bush's mistakes... not me! I'm not happy with the
democrats in office either. I just want someone to actually do what they are
elected to do, their job! Instead, they focus on finger pointing and arguing
and a lot of empty promises.
LDSboy -- If Reid is a "political moderate," I'll eat my hat.Dale --
Re: "judge not," the whole context of that scripture was that we'll be judged
with the same measure we judge. If I ever become as dishonest, shallow, and
sniveling a weasel as Senator Reid, I will readily confess to the world that any
judgment of me as such will be entirely deserved.And it's not
because Reid has the temerity to be a Democrat. I actually somewhat admire one
of my Democratic Senators, Dianne Feinstein. (I said "one.") Reid is simply
not an honorable man, and my opinion wouldn't change if he had an (R) after his
It's true that we should not judge Reid himself, but we can judge his fruits.
It's true that there are problems in all parties and with all politicians -
we're all imperfect. I think the thing that brings people out to post here and
condemn Reid is that he's a high profile Mormon who is doing things that people
don't agree with and that don't seem to match the gospel principles they hold
to. They could just as easily rail on Bush for debt, border security, etc.I think it's OK to have dissent. In fact, I think it's healthy if kept
civil. It's OK to judge fruits, reject, and stand up against what we think is
wrong - if it's kept civil. I don't think it's right to sit back and remain
silent when we see something wrong.P.S. I think it's really funny to
watch the people here who have said "don't judge" and how they themselves are
judging the people who they claim are judging. lol.
Pardon me, "anonymous." Don't you mean ignernt?
BYU Grad -- "Mormons aren't welcome in the Republican Party (outside
of Utah) and never will be."Hogwash. There's a boatload of Mormon
Republican Congressmen and Senators from districts outside of Utah. And of
course Massachusetts Republicans had no problem electing one Governor.My impression is that it's a minority of evangelicals who would refuse to vote
for a Mormon. It's also been my experience that for every evangelical
conservative who objects to Mormons on theological grounds, there's at least one
political liberal who would refuse to vote for a Mormon because of the Church's
stances on gay marriage, abortion, etc., or because Mormons' allegedly
far-fetched beliefs supposedly reflect an insufficient commitment to the liberal
goddess Reason. (From which deity they regularly apostasize when science
contradicts their own beliefs, but that's another story.)
BYU-ProfMaybe he can re-reconcile his politics with his testimony
when political circumstances warrant. Maybe Mitt Romney could give him some
hints. Professors like you are exactly the reason I don't encourage my children
to go to BYU. I want my children to "stand for something", and to be consistent
in their beliefs. Pro-choice and church membership are absolutely NOT
The intellectual climate in the LDS church is not compatible with critical
thinking, and because of demographics and history, it pervades the state.
Emotion trumps rationality, and discussion degenerates into testimony or
vitriol. I'm glad that I don't live in Utah.
Some of these posts clearly show why Utah is considered the "Reddest of states."
Poor, ignorant people easily swayed by almost anything they are told.
Dan, my comment RE PP&NS was in direct relation to socialism/communism. Some
parts of the book are incorrect; however, when a person is called and sustained
as a prophet and speaks from the pulpit under influence of the Holy Spirit,
shouldn't we pay attention (I recall a verse somewhere about that)? Under such
circumstances, aren't those statements duly considered doctrinal (another verse
somewhere)? Such leaders as Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, Wilford
Woodruff, Heber J. Grant, George Albert Smith, David O. McKay, and more than a
few of the apostles of the same time periods very plainly stated that socialism
and communism are the devil's counterfeit to the Lord's plan. And yes, there
are corrupt (and corruptible) people in both major parties -- making it hard to
support either one.The Church has no position on politics (only moral
issues). ALL persons of ALL political persuasions are welcomed into the
Church.Members of the Church in high political positions are just as
susceptible to temptation as are everyone else (I think there's a verse on this,
too). I have difficulty reconciling Reid's positions with statements from
people I hold to be prophets of God.
ldsboy,If Reid would have spoken his beliefs purely as a politician,
I could at least partly agree with you. He didn't. He used an LDS forum to try
to use his LDS influence, to persuade other LDS persons to join him in his
political agenda while criticizing former LDS leaders whom he probably feined to
sustain at the time in order to get a temple recommend.
It is sad that members of this church confuse different views on policy with
faithfulness. Senate Reid said it all when he commented that: "I don't have to
answer to any of them. When I go to get my (temple) recommend, they're never
present." Are we so quick to pass judgment on a good faithful recommend holding
Latter-day Saint. If you want to point fingers look at the Romneys and their
liberal leaning ideas on social issues (before they switched). But no one
mentions that because he has an R behind his name. While Senator Reid a pro-life
and ani-gay marriage Democrat gets all the abusive rhetoric. It is time for
Mormons to leave a party that a majority of it's members (Evangelical
Christians) won't even vote for one of us simply because we are LDS. Bigotry in
its truest form. Mormons aren't welcome in the Republican Party (outside of
Utah) and never will be.
Senator Reid's talk was inspiring. He was just as unapologetic about his
testimony as he was about his political views. I have heard nothing but good
from my colleagues here on campus, even those who disagree with Reid
politically.Many of you commenters need to read or consider the
article more carefully. First, he did not speak about Pres. Benson in the talk,
but in off-the-cuff remarks to reporters afterwards. And he didn't criticize
PRES. Benson, the prophet, at all, but BROTHER Benson and SECRETARY OF
AGRICULTURE Benson, who was very outspoken (and very, very right-wing) before
becoming the president. It is public record (read the McKay bio) that as a
junior general authority Benson had to be reined in by the brethren several
times for preaching his personal political opinions rather than doctrine.If you have a problem understanding how Reid can reconcile his testimony
and his politics, you really need to reassess what "testimony" means. If you
see abortion as a moral issue but not war, you need to read the New Testament
Interesting! When the Republican came to campus the Democrats protested. When
the Democrat came, the Republicans didn't protest. Just shows how much more
respectful and open-minded the Republican are.
Where was the coverage about Reed's visit and speech? I don't get much media so
I may have missed it. When Cheney visited BYU there was months of coverage and
advance notice. You couldn't pick up a news paper or listen to a news report
with out it being mentioned. I would have attended Reid's speech had I know he
was going to be here.I am an independent voter but usually tend to
vote Republican. But I do like to hear from both sides of the isle.By the way--ANYONE BUT CANNON--for the second congressional district!
You can't be a good mormon and a republican:1. The likely GOP
presidential candidate (Rudy) is pro-abortion and pro gay marriage. The senior
democratic leader in congress (Harry Reid) is pro-life and pro-traditional
marriage.2. Under GOP control, the federal deficit has reached all time
highs. This goes contrary to church teachings of living within our means.3. The GOP has drastically cut programs for the poor. Read King Benjamin's
speach on how we should care for the poor.I could go on, but I
won't. My point is to provoke and incite a reaction. I don't really believe
what you can't be a good mormon and a republican, just like I don't believe
people who make similar claims that "you can't be a good mormon and be a
democrat." I have great respect and admiration for both Harry Reid and Orin
Hatch. I don't agree with both of them all the time, but I respect both of them
as honorable and decent people who have the best interest of their constituents
and the country at heart. I am active LDS, hold a current reccomend, church
leader, and vote for both Democrats and Republicans. We can think for
I've been away from Utah for several years now. I see things are even more
divisive than I first thought. Heaven help these people.
P.S. In my last post, I might have come across as claiming that democrats were
the problem. Republicans are following the democrats' lead, they're just not
quite as far down that road.Pro-choice? It's my _choice_ to kill
someone - should there not be a law or punishment against that? This country
twice now has drawn a line in the sand and said "those on this side of the line
are human and those on the other side are not." Once dealt with blacks and
slavery, the other dealt with abortion and the unborn child - both are dead
wrong.Founding documents protect the rights of citizens AND their
posterity, which includes millions who have AND have not been conceived yet.
It's not an issue of choice - the fetus is NOT a part of the mother - the DNA is
different and if the child wasn't protected by fetal-blocking antibodies, it
would be attacked by the mother's immune system as a foreign body. It's about
convenience killing and it's amazing how people have rationalized it.Reid should be fighting against abortion, socialism (global warming, universal
healthcare), gay marriage, and many other things that Mormon doctrine is
You are refering to the anti-Nephi-Lehis that buried their weapons of war and
refused to fight right?
Jesus said "Judge Not"How come so many here feel it is their role to
Judge Senator Reid?Christ's word should be the end all of this
thread because most of what I read here is judgment of Reid.Instead
of engaging this debate, go bake cookies and take them to your new neighbor, go
help the elderly, go into your private places and pray for guidance from God.
This debate seems to be guiding so many away from the teachings of the man they
claim as their personal savior.JUDGE NOT!!!
the reason there were no protests when Reid visited BYU is because Republicans
don't have the time to protest. They are all busy at work earning money so the
Democrats can re-distribute The Republicans wealth through burdensome taxation
to pay for the the Democrat's "Great Society" of welfare and benefit recipients.
finally byu invites a political moderate, what an honor to have the majority
leader at BYU! wow! thanks for treating him with respect. Mormons need to open
their eyes to the evil and misleading actions of the Bush admin.
I am LDS conservative. I used to think Harry Reid was one of the better
Democrats but in recent years he has revealed his poor judgment and lapses in
ethics and honesty. LDS in the Democrat party could be beneficial if they could
guide the agenda in a positive direction but Reid has let the agenda shape
him.The Democrat agenda has not only been counter to morality and
the constitution but to some of the fundamentals of the gospel. Personal
accountability and progression is a fundamental principle. The democrat agenda
of big government and communal society is aimed at equal outcomes for all.
Experience and failure are great teachers. Millions already suffer from not
learning to discipline themselves because the government will atone for their
mistakes. Liberals want to expand these destructive policies.We are
taught the need to have oil for our lamps and that it cannot be borrowed. Those
who have not mastered their temporal lives will never conquer the spiritual. The
BOM teaches us that we need to be engaged in defending righteousness in the
political arena and on the battlefield. LDS who support the democrat agenda of
today, have failed to connect the dots.
I am a conservative Mormon Republican, but it concerns me when people imply that
someone cannot be a "good" Mormon and a Democrat. When you express such views,
you are saying that the First Presidency is wrong when they explicitly state
otherwise. That is your right, of course, but just know that you are in more
opposition to the church's position than the person who has chosen to be
involved in their community as a Democrat. Also, let's remember that Harry Reid
is against abortion and gay marriage...he just says that those issues are not
the highest priority on the current agenda. I believe that we need more honest
church members of varying viewpoints who are willing to get involved in the
party they connect with most.
It is not meet that you should be commanded in all things. Just because General
Conference doesn't mention Global Warming doesn't mean it isn't a real,
important issue that we should take seriously. Do the brethren have to refer to
genocide in order for you to recognize it as a problem? How about crime? How
about the poor situation of schools in America and especially Utah? I think
Reid was just trying to expand our view beyond the very important issues of
abortion, gay marriage, and flag burning to recognize other very important
issues. Expand your horizons beyond conservatism and you may find there is a
whole world of additional issues that are important and that matter a lot.
Senator Reid is a disappointment on many levels. That he can use political
expediency to trash anything uttered by a Republic is dispicable, particularly
when good men (and women) can have differences of opinion without resorting to
name calling. Reid craves power and it only comes by going along with the power
givers, which for him are a select group of socialist/communuist Democrats. He
trashes evangelical Christians because he knows there is no room in the
Democrats for their views, and he gets a double bonus by proclaiming
evangelicals are not Christian and doing so as a Mormon. Thats a back door way
to fan the fires against Mitt Romney. Reid is now leader of the group-think
party because he parrots their propaganda. Does he really believe it or is his
morality suppressed because, as with abortion, the courts have settled the law?
Does he do the same when he makes his testimony of the Church public? Is he just
saying what the Church power-givers want to hear? Neither his political
arguments nor his testimony hold any merit for me because I can't tell if he is
telling the truth about what he truly believes.
What bothers me most about Harry Reid is not that he wants to bring the troops
home (we can debate this back and forth until we're blue in the face), but that
he would like to put a timeline on it ("hey, let's give the terrorists 9 months
to kill as many of our soldiers as they can"). If the war is wrong, bring the
troops home now. If we must win it, then stay and win it. Reid's middle ground
only causes more confusion and problems. And he must be just
plainly deceived about where the socialistic programs he is part of will lead
our country. As far as him being part of the church and speaking at
BYU--well none of us are perfect so we take what he says, apply it as applicable
in our own lives, and leave his judgment up to someone smarter than us. Besides
if he didn't come speak, just think how we all would have missed out on this
back and forth of ideas.P.S. Have you googled Ron Paul? :-)
As a church member and non-American I am appalled by the rudeness and the
naivete of those that attack Reid. Viewed from the international scene and from
the church in the world, Harry Reid is the most precious man we have to
counterbalance the image of Mormons as right-wing fanatics (for examples, see
previous comments). Whatever his weaknesses are (and who is perfect?), Reid is
helping make friends for America in many countries. And therefore helping to
protect our missionaries and further the work.
The Democratic Party is no more "Satan's Plan" as is the Republican Party's
insistence on forcing other nations and peoples to abide by the American way of
life. Why are Republicans so quick to demonize those with whom they disagree?
And by the way, "Prophets, Principles, and National Survival" is a book of
selective quotes by the brethren that support conservative principles. There
are many, many statements by some individual church leaders in the book that do
not represent the views of the church as a whole. In fact, many of these
statements by certain LDS leaders and members in this book were and are hotly
contested by other high-ranking church leaders. So please do not portray this
book as if it were LDS doctrine. It just isn't. Please refresh your view of
what constitutes church doctrine. And besides, please hold with skeptism the
comments of anyone that reads Coulter or listens religiously to Rush. There are
some good things that they contribute, but most of what they say is propaganda
and sensationalism that avoids the civil discussion of real issues that we so
desperately need (the same can be said of other extremists on the left).
Those Reid bashers in these posts obviously are not aware of the LDS Church's
most recent official policy on politics (issued March 2006): "Principles
compatible with the gosepel may be found in the platforms of all major political
parties." There is a fine tradition of well-known Mormon Democrats in the
Church: President Hugh B. Brown, Hugh Nibley, James E. Faust, Marlin K. Jensen,
just to name a few. So why do Republican Mormons continue to doubt the church
loyalty of their brothers and sisters who believe in principles espoused by the
Democratic Party, some of which principles the Church itself recognizes as
"compatible with the gospel?" Why do Mormons continually try to dogmatize
political matters? It is actually true what Reid said: there have been some
past prominent LDS leaders who have tried sway members to the right. But there
were also other LDS leaders that opposed such methods. Who is not aware of the
great controversies among the brethren that Benson caused during the 1960s as a
result of his over-zealous support of the New Right? As one church leader said:
"Allow within the bounds of definition of religious orthodoxy a variation in
While I agree with inviting Senator Reid to speak at BYU, I fail to understand
why anyone who claims to be an LDS following the words of our prophet can agree
with the things he said. I, for one, don't understand how he receives a temple
recommend while supporting abortion and gay marriage. Yeah..I'll wait to hear
when the theme of General Conference is "Global Warming." I wonder if he has a
copy of the Proclamation to the Family hanging on his wall. One thing he does
need is every book President Benson wrote. This man is a poor example of an
LDS. One other thing..why is there such a big deal made of Romney being LDS and
nothing is ever mentioned about Reid's religion? I think I know the answer. I'm
amazed and sadened by how many LDS are following the ways of the world to be
Every once in a while, when I am a little homesick for Utah, I read the comments
to a Deseret News article and am reminded why I am so glad not to live there any
more. I am a devout member of the church. I also happen to be a republican,
but I am disgusted by all the personal attacks on Reid simply because of his
political beliefs. Why is it evil not to actively oppose gay marriage but not
evil to fail to oppose a war based on false pretenses that has killed tens of
thousands of innocents and soldiers?
No one is going to force any of you to get an abortion or to marry a gay person.
Live through example. If there are people that feel like these things will help
them, remember they are in a bad place and need help. Those are true Christian
values, not passing restrictive laws that are supposed to achieve social
engineering. Most of these "Conservative Values" people are control freaks that
are after power and get it by making people afraid to stand up for their rights
by telling them to do so is "Un-Christian". Read their comments, they use
insulting words and call the people who dont agree with them evil as well as
anything else vile and disgusting they can throw at the competition. Be assured
these Christian Conservatives have a not so hidden agenda and it isn't saving
souls. It is power and control of people through guilt and intimidation and
using their religion to rally support for restrestrictive laws that tread on all
people rights. They use intimidation and lies all the while claiming they are
the ones under threat. Read their words, they are not words of good Christians.
The issue with Mr. Reid is not a Democrat or Republican issue but a moral one.
For him to say that we need to forget about abortion as if it were insignificant
is unbelieveable. Those of you who agree with him should do a little research on
abortion, especially partial birth abortion.(4 to 7+ months pregnancy) The
abortionist delivers the baby feet first until only the head remains in the
birth canal. Then a hole is made in the baby's skull. A suction catheter is then
used to suck the child's brains out causing the skull to collapse. The dead baby
is then removed. If Harry say's the country has gone beyond this issue then we
have gone beyond charity also. I don't believe the LDS church leaders will
change church policy to be politically correct. If this same barbaric procedure
were used on an animal or peoples pets you would soon see a law against it.
Perhaps some are "beyond" feeling in this country.
Why is it when a Republican speaks, the media and Deseret News report "People
are offended and will protest! They demand someone else to speak!" and then they
report on the protest of about oh, five people. But when it is a Democrat, they
are welcomed with a warm reception and open arms....
In the late 70's, I received my degree from a highly-regarded, conservative,
Protestant university on the West Coast. . . and was the sole Catholic, along
with one LDS student, among the huge enrollment.I continue to be
amazed that LDS would align themselves with the "Religious Right" branch of the
GOP.Throughout the years, each and every one of their ilk with whom
I've spoken continues to insist that LDS are *not* Christians, that LDS *are*
subject to false teachings, and that LDS are certainly "folks who live good
lives, but aren't going to Heaven."Ask one of them. Ask straight
out if an adherent to the Religious Right will witness before the conservative
congregation where they attend that the LDS are true Christians.I
have witnessed thus, in Mass and in a LDS Sacrament meeting. It's not difficult
for this Democrat to do so; no human can guarantee a fellow congregant's
faithfulness, infallibility, morality. Thankfully, it is up to the
Father to take stock of our lives, without regard to political party membership.
Senator Reid is a hard working, caring man who is doing great service to Nevada
and our country. I'm grateful for his strength and humor, both of which he puts
to great use everyday.I'm a little put off by the Deseret News
reports surprise of a warm reception at BYU. If you spend any time on the BYU
campus you would quickly come to realize that the students and faculty care
deeply about their country, their fellow man, and the world.It
should be obvious that being stone cold sober helps all of your faculties to
work at a higher level. Bravo - again - BYU
I think Harry should read the Proclamation On The Family put out by the First
Presidency and Council of the Twelve Apostles. There is direct conflict of Mr.
Reids words and the words of this document.
Funny how he says that Pres. Benson and Pres. Wilkinson have lead members down
the wrong path when as church members we believe that the Lord will not allow
the leaders of the Church to lead the church astray. I think Reid would like to
lead the members astay.
Harry Reid says members who question his faithfulness are not present when he
gets his recommend. Maybe we should be present to remind him how he bore false
witness against a private citizen on the senate floor last week and got 41
Democrats to vote for his resolution condemning that citizen. He was
instrumental in perpetuating a smear campaign by left wing extremists. Conduct
unbecoming a member.
The democrat party used to be more decent but has been hijacked by socialists.
I think Reid is deceived. Satan's plan in the beginning was to force people to
do what's right - that sounds like forcing rich people to give to the poor
through wealth distribution and taxation instead of letting them do it through
charity of their own free will. Rewarding Gay marriage and abortion is wrong.
Global warming is just another plank in the environmental movement that has also
been hijacked by socialism. Universal health-care is also socialism. The
general authorities have already said that communism is the most powerful
satanic force on the earth and when Russia fell, communism/socialism
metastasized and it has now infiltrated the democratic party and the
environmental movement. The law of chastity and the law of consecration are two
high level laws and Satan's counterfeits for these laws (gay marriage,
socialized anything, etc.) are swinging into full force and democrats
create/reward it all. Look up President Hinckley's talks "The World in Which we
Live" Oct 2001, and "War and Peace" Apr 2003 to see the how the church's
position on our military and war on terror don't seem to match Reid's.
These comments sound like they come from a bunch of wolverines who have been
backed into corners. Why so defensive?The sad truth is, neither
political party represent well the religious beliefs I have. Both parties have
been hijacked by groups on opposite extremes of the political spectrum. Their
narrow agendas aren't the everyday things I have to concern myself with.I think we can be too blindly loyal to our government. Jesus wasn't that
way--he was killed for it. Joseph Smith wasn't that way--he was killed for it.
Brigham Young wasn't that way. How did we become that way? There is
plenty of corruption on both sides of the aisle. In the end, we may have to
choose to be loyal to our country over our government, and loyal to our
religious convictions over our government, too.
It is interesting that in Utah it is the Party (GOP) first and Christiandom
second, Kind of like Germany in 1939. To say that you will not donate to BYU
because of a liberal coming to BYU is like saying the mission of the church only
influences me as long as it is ultra right wing. What a box we all live in.
Brian says the Supreme Court decisions are irrevocable...I'd say Brian needs to
go back to school and get a better education. I'd also like for Brian to
indicate what law was overturned in Roe v Wade which took the legislature out of
the role of creating laws. Please expound to enlighten us.For "I'm
glad I'm not Mormon" any longer. What's truly sad is that you didn't use your
brain the whole time you were in the church. Can you please tell me where it
says that I'm supposed to stop thinking for myself and learn but to turn my
whole brain over to someone else? What it sounds like is you think you are
intellectually superior to people who have faith and rely on the Spirit and
learn through much study, fasting and prayer. Intellectual snobs like you are
what give the LDS Church a bad name.Ever read in the Bible where
Christ tells those who think they are intellectually superior that they are
fools to themselves? Might want to look it up my friend.Reid is a
disaster along the lines of Katrina and Rita. He needs to just go away.
Fascinating story and blogs. Interesting that conservatives did not
protest Mr. Reid's appearance at BYU (are conservatives truly more tolerant of
different view points?). Interesting that Mr. Reid believes prior
Church leaders who wore the mantle of apostle/prophet and spoke against
socialism/communism are now to be considered outdated. (Read "Prophets,
Principles, and National Survival" and see just how much and how far back the
counsel is given -- and still valid.) Equally fascinating that Reid has
swallowed the lie of man-made global warming (debunked by noted climatologists).
May be normal/natural, but not manmade. And since when is today's climate
ideal for people? What hubris. Questions for Mr. Reid: why should I be
forced to pay for social programs under threat of penalty/imprisonment (via
taxation)? Isn't it a personal choice/responsibility? Can you reconcile Thou
shalt not covet with the democrat policy of taxing for social
programs/welfare? Temple recommend questions are on personal behavior
and testimony, not politics. And for the investigator, base your
investigations on the Church's teachings and fidelity to God. Put the Church's
teachings to the test. And by all means, pray to God for direction, with the
intent to follow that direction. And finally: GO ROCKIES!!!
While perusing some of the postings above, I am convinced there is no hope for
"The Reddest State."
The main problem with many conservatives at this point in history in the church
is that they sometimes confuse their own ideology with the gospel. There are
many discrepancies with such logic. One is that in doing so, they
cheapen and weaken the eternal principles within the gospel itself. No
political ideology is stable, whole and complete. Ideologies evolve over time
and can turn in the wrong direction. Case in point: Could we possibly compare
the attitudes and policies of Abraham Lincoln, an early Republican, or Ronald
Reagan, a President respected by the majority of Americans, with those of the
Neo-cons of today?
Harry Reid is neither as bad as the conservatives paint him nor as good as
liberals paint him. He is a politician which explains his seeming duplicity,
and the wide range of emotions he elicits. Having your words, and deeds
dictated by the need to advance your own political power and that of your party,
instead of by the charity that the Savior says we should all strive for is
indeed a pathetic situation. He is to be pitied just as an alcoholic who
doesn't think he has a drinking problem, eventhough he's alienated everyone but
Oops. "has ran" should be "has run". Apologies...I'm an idiut.
Politics and religion just shouldn't mix. If they do, then there is no
separation between church and state. The fact of the matter is that the Church
of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints stays out of politics and does not endorse
any political party. Any members of the church that believe otherwise are
incorrect. So each member of the church has the ability to choose for themselves
what political figures they should vote for. I think it is awful
that people are bringing up Romney's religion to determine whether or not we
should vote for him. We should never even consider religion when it comes to
politics. Politicians should stand on their own values and platforms of their
political parties.I personally don't believe any party has all the
answers, so I don't vote down any party lines. I look at each candidate for
their principles and their political agenda. Religion does not factor into that
I don't think KSL TV or ksl.com has ran anything on this. Am I wrong?
To "Right to Life" - being Pro-Choice does not mean someone is Pro-abortion.I could take from your name that you oppose killing of all people, and
infer that you oppose the death penalty. I bet I am wrong and that you do, in
fact, support the death penalty - so claiming to be Pro-life is not accurate,
you really are anti-abortion.Pro-Choice, on the other hand, is
entirely different. Pro Choice means that a person doesn't believe that it is
their role to tell other persons what decisions they have to make. It seems to me that Jesus (at least according to LDS teachings) was Pro-Choice
and a War was fought in heaven to determine whether we would have freedom of
choice on this earth or whether we would not. If I remember right the plan to
limit the ability of people to make their own choices was a plan sprouted by
Lucifer.Harry Reid is not pro-abortion but, like Jesus, is pro free
I'm just thankful that the current events of the day show the hypocritical
nature of the Republican party. Look at homophobic Sen. Craig soliciting gay sex
in a MN airport bathroom stall and that gives the clearest picture of where the
Republican party stands today.
I was there for his talk, and I was rather impressed. It is possible to be a
Democrat and a Mormon at the same time, because a person's faith is not
determined by their political party. I am neither Democrat nor
Republican, but Harry Reid's talk impressed me. I'd vote for him if he was
running for president. Whereas President Bush lately; his speeches amuse me. "Al
Qaeda's here, Al Qaeda's there, Al Qaeda is responsible for this, Al Qaeda did
that, we must exterminate Al Qaeda, Al Qaeda is a great threat, Al Qaeda, Al
Qaeda, Al Qaeda." It's like reading the monologues of Chauvelin and Robespierre
in "The Scarlet Pimpernel".No, I found Harry Reid's speeches and
reasoning much more impressive and more intelligent than Bush's. I really don't
know what people see in Bush. And you could tell that he impressed
the audience, which was mostly educated students and faculty. The audience gave
him a standing ovation. He's an intelligent guy, and I think he's a good Mormon.
Again, your political party does not determine whether you are a good Mormon.
That is so short-sighted.
Just reading all of the comments here really shows how intolerant the religious
right is of anyone who disagrees with them. Such hatred. My oh my.
"I applaud them for bringing in someone who helps them break the sameness of
thought they seem to endorse."That endorsement is something you have
picked up. There is no official stance. Bringing in Harry Reid is "Standard
Two men mentioned they acheived great success in their lives. Cheney said how he failed, but many people he knew failed to get to where he
and the rest of them are today, but he said to never give up. It was 100%
inspirational.Reid bashed the president, bashed past church leaders,
and bashed Christians, including LDS members. Whose speech made you
want to be better?
I love it when Democrats say people are leaving the Republican party and elude
that they are entering the Democratic party. They are leaving Republicans, that
is the Republicans fault, but they are not going to the Democrats.I
love being told socialized medicine and global warming are the real issues.
Socialized medicine does not work!!! Look at the quality of doctors and the
real measurements of a doctors ability.
Benson did not want any communists at byu but as chairman of board of education
Kimball as prophet gave approval of soviet secretary of supreme court to speak
as law school. In ed Kimball's lengthen your stride.As for as being
pro choice but anti abortion and on the agency battle. Laws are here to protect
people and there is no agency for the fetus. That is why we should be pro life.
And agency we should use our agency for the right choice. To help people be
righteous. Dallin H Oaks and Jim faust said that. Use our agency for laws that
protect all people including unborn.
As for his criticism of President Benson Has he been throuth the temple? IF
you are how can you in good faith criticize those the lord call's? There is
nothing untrue about what President Bensoon said. Joseph SMith when socialism
came about, Marion G Romney and David O mCkay all were just as critical of
socialist policies reid endorses.And for me it is easier to be a
republican because of church membership than a democrat and abortion and gay
rights are more important than coveting and theft.
President McKay and President Kimball would agree with Senator Reid about Elder
Bensons political activism while Apostle. They were constantly trying to get him
to keep his mouth shut, because his views did not represent that of the church,
but members often thought they did (read David O. McKay and Rise of Modern
Mormonism and Stand a Little Taller). Like all of us, the brethren
are not flawless gods. And like all of us, they grow. President Benson was very
good about not addressing politics during his time as Prophet. Also,
those who in one breath criticize senator Reid for his criticism of the a few
past church leaders and criticize "BYU" for having him, are actually criticizing
current church leaders who stand as the board of directors and extended the
invitation. Its fine...just know your doing the very thing for which
you are denouncing Reid.
My take on his position in not that we should should ignore abortion because it
is not important, but because other than voice our support, there may be little
we can do to change the law as those laws are made in the courts.A
person can be pro-life and choose to focus their energies on other areas that
may be more effective in reducing the number of abortions such as poverty,
You guys make me happy that i am not mormon anymore. I was my whole life up
until a year or so ago (im 28). I went on a mission, married in the temple, the
whole deal. It is quite liberating to be able to think for myself without
having 90+ year olds telling me what and how to think. Have an open mind and let
the man think and say what he wants. If you dont agree with him that is your
business. You have lived a different life than him and his perspectives are
different than yours. I used to think BYU was the pinnacle of closemindedness
and a joke at teaching young minds how to think and expand. I applaud them for
bringing in someone who helps them break the sameness of thought they seem to
I am old enough to remember that, before the left wing rebellion in the
Democratic Party that won George McGovern the nomionation for president in 1972,
Utah and other western states tended to equally elect Republicans and Democrats
for major office, and even today, the Republican governors and congressmen
elected from Utah tend to be largely moderate in their policy positions. The national Democratic Party has become dominated by a left wing that
is dedicated to preventing Congress and individual states from legislating on
abortion, and to preventing judges who might overturn Roe v. Wade from being
confirmed to the Supreme Court. If Senator Reid does not think abortion is a
major issue, why do Senate Democrats so firmly oppose the confirmation of judges
who might think it is a complex issue that should be returned to the state
legislatures? If it is not important, why do they threaten filibusters,
stopping all work in the Senate, to prevent the Senate from exercising its
constitutional duty to vote up or down on judicial nominees? The unrestricted
right to kill babies even at birth is something the Senate Democrats, like
Hillary Clinton, will defend to the death.
Brian, Conservatives in the LDS church do NOT focus exclusively on abortion and
gay marriage. They do oppose socialism and the erosion of the divinely inspired
U.S. Constitution by those who call it a living and breathing document, subject
to the whims of whoever is in the Supreme Court. They also believe in
capitalism. Why do many liberals fight for the rights of strip clubs and
pornographers to exercise the First Amendment, then turn around and try to
neutralize the Second Amendment? I, for one, think bigger government is NOT the
answer in health care or education. Let the people keep their money and decide
for themselves what they want. Socialism and its big brother communism have
failed miserably wherever they have choked out capitalism and freedom. America
has superb health care. Ruin our system by nationalizing and socializing it,
and you can be sure you will have to wait months even for cancer treatment,
which happens in Canada. I know a woman whose mother in Canada had to come to
the U.S. to get cancer treatment because she might have died before her turn for
service came up in Alberta.
Need to worry LESS about abortion? I can't think of a more important issue for
our nation to address. It is terrible that the leader of the U.S. Senate has
his priorities so wrong.
Why can't Harry Ried be a democrate in the vein of President Faust? I learned
many years ago that he was democrate. I thought that if they were all like him,
this might be a good 'home' for my vote. President Faust was an outstanding
example to us all. But the modern Democrate party? I was wrong, as the type of
democrate President Faust was is NOT the type that Reid and Co are today.
Civility has gone out the window, and my vote is where the views that I know to
be right and true (through free agency) lies in the conservative party. Welcome to BYU. Now go home.
Senator Reid's remarks are inspiring. They take me back to the days of my youth
in the old 22nd Ward, Salt Lake Stake. The late Bishop Egan A. and Blanche
Glaus were great testimonty bearing LDS and great Democrats! Maybe those days
can come back. No political institution has done more for this country than the
Democratic Party. That said, the current party has lost its way on a few
things; e.g. it's social philosophy is gender and race based, not class based,
so it has lost touch with and concern for working class white men, and it has
been entirely too shy in opposing the immoral Iraq war. Moreover, the local
party doesn't concentrate on the war, but on school vouchers! But still, only
the Democratic Party can get us out of our present mess nationally and
I'll try to stand up as an LDS convert, for Christ, a golden mean and the polar
star. Keep me out of politics!
Our ancestors fought for our rights of free speech and of religion. I applaud
the many conservative students and faculty at BYU who welcomed Mr. Reid to the
campus and respectfully allowed him to exercise his rights. At the same time I
question the morality of those who tried to prevent the Vice President from
exercising those same rights.
You are right Bush has done nothing but great things for ALL of us.Please enjoy your "vacation" in Iraq. To all the parents of boys in Jr high
and especially High School reading this kiss your children every day knowing
that more than 3000 families can never do that again.How long can we
blindly follow before we must say "the emporer has no clothes"? The
2 nice young men that live next to me worry me FAR less than the wasted deaths
of our youth.
There is much, much more to morality than sexual purity! As to the abortion
toll in lives, Senator Reid addressed that. The courts have spoken. You
mention 4000 lives in refering to the war in Iraq. That refers only to the toll
in American GIs killed (actually the total is currently 3818, 4119 for the
coallition). What about the tens of thousands wounded whose lives have been
shattered along with their bodies? What about the hundreds of thousands of
Iraqs that have been killed by shock and awe and the violence that has resulted
from our hasty invasion and poorly planned occupation? Please refer to all
Pres. Benson's political comments while he was President of the Church. Oh,
that's right, there aren't any. Isn't there a message in that? There certainly
is for me. Are you practicing what he did preach as Prophet? Go ahead and be a
Republican, but be sure and hold that party as rigidly to a complete moral
standard as you do the Democrats. Both parties have plenty of weaknesses,
choose one and work to strengthen it. They both need good, truly moral people.
Mr looking, you would be better off with the evangelicals. They are closed
minded and short sighted enough to be just right for you
There's a big difference between being pro abortion and pro choice. As I seem to
remember in Mormon Theology, in the pre-existance the battle was over forcing
someone back to heavon. So I think a democrate can say they don't believe in
Abortion on a personal level but believe still believe in Choice for someone
else. We should go to church to learn how to love, not to learn how to hate. It
seems that most learn to hate and can't accept someone like Reid who want to put
the Gospel (Good News) and Charity (Love) into action. I, an LDS member, like
him. President Benson spoke in a different time. President Hinckley sounds a lot
more like Reid then he does like Benson.
Either the gospel is true or it is not. If you base your testimony on the
actions of any member, you are not ready to commit to it as a belief system.If I were you I would wait to join until I understood the tenents of the
religion, and not join just because you agree with someones political beliefs.
While Rome burns. You folks are awfully fixated on gay marriage and
abortion. Take a look at your own houses first perhaps?
I agree Don, this guy is a joke, joke, joke! And, what are you talking about
Alan Robinson? I haven't ever heard Harry state in the media his religious
affiliation. Have YOU? Not that I want him to either..talk about an awful
missionary!! Shame on Harry.
Where are all the protests, I thought we are a equal opportunity protesting
country. The protests were there when Dick Chenny came to the University, but
Harry Reid? Could it be that Conservatives are actually the more tolerant than
Liberal who claim to be the tolerant view. There is something to that.
Liberals are all for freedom of speech as long as it is their point of view.
You don't have to be a Republican to be a good Latter Day Saint. I found it
very interesting when President Faust died articles in this newspaper described
him as "very active" in the Democratic Party before he was called to full-time
service in the Church. He was over thirty at the time. I doubt anyone would
say he needed to "grow a brain" as was suggested above.
I graduated from BYU last year and I was sad I couldn't listen to this, but now
I'm glad I didn't. From the remarks he said, I really don't think that was a
good talk. I don't care who you are, you don't not go to any school and tell
them President Bush had the worst foreign policy ever! That is a terrible thing
and what a terrible example to bash someone at a large university. Even worse,
saying that prominent LDS leaders were wrong to do anything. I can't stand this
guy. The little respect I had for him totally went down the drain. This why I
can't stand the democratic party. They feel they can say whatever they want and
people say you should be open minded to them and they may change the world. I
seriously cannot believe this guy said what he did. Cheney's speech was
inspirational, while his speech was bashing. I would have booed those who gave
him a standing ovation. What a disgrace!P.S. Funny how no
protestors were there and a democrat came to the school.
While I agree that issues like gay marriage and abortion may be important,
Reid's point (which is quite valid) is that Mormons often focus EXCLUSIVELY on
those issues which have already been decided by irrevocable Supreme Court cases
and forget about issues where they really can make a difference. These issues,
like health care, gun control, education, etc. the right-wing big-business
evangelical Christian-owned Republican party has morally reprehensible views
about. The late Jerry Falwell counseled his followers that God's greatest
priority was tax cuts for the wealthy. That sounds more like filthy lucre than
anything Senator Reid espoused yesterday. At least think about whether your own
party affiliation really expresses your beliefs or not.
So, Reid says the Iraq war is the biggest blunder in U.S. history. What about
allowing ourselves to be attacked at Pearl Harbor with the loss of nearly 3,000
lives and the near destruction of the Pacific Fleet? His favorite politician is
Pres. Roosevelt who was Commander-in-Chief at the time and during nine years in
office up to 1941 allowed our military to become one of the smallest (16th, I
believe) on the planet. We don't know the outcome of the Iraq war yet. We do
know that if Reid were in charge it would be surrender! How does he know that
this war isn't part of the Lord's larger plan to eventually bring his gospel to
these people. Remember, the Lord moves in mysterious ways. Look what happened
to Japan and Germany after WW II. There are now temples of the Lord there.
Pres. Bush is a stubborn man and that bothers alot of people. He is also a very
prayerful man. We do not know what kind of inspiration he may recieve because
he is also a private individual.
Thank you brother Reid for telling me how to me a better LDS member. All this
time, I thought that living my standards, listening to the teachings, and making
my choice to be conservitive was the right choice. Now, because of your insight
and prophecy, I can now go to my bishop and ask for forgivness for being a
conservitive. I repent. Thank you.
You are so right! It is so hard to believe that it takes a person that is not of
LDS faith to realize that. Abortion and gay rights are a big deal, it's what be
believe to be WRONG! I'm not going to vote for a man who proclaims to be mormon
and who believes it's ok to do those kind of things, and if you are LDS and
believe it's ok to love men when you are a man you need to talk to your Bishop.
You're are right not currently we do believe in loving our naighbor and I feel
Reid is wrong in call Bush an idiot, Bush may not be the smartest man alive, but
how long has it been since we have had an attack on the US? Oh yeah how since we
went over seas.
For Harry Reid to criticize leaders of the church is a disgrace. Harry! Look at
what is happening around you. If conservative values wre ever needed in this
country, it is now. Shouldn't church beliefs not only dictate your everyday
life, but your philosophy of government policies--such as abortion.
Harry Reid is very wrong to attack religious conservatives as 'un-Christian'.
That was an evil thing to say and Harry Reid has said far too many things likes
that during his life. I've always been appalled at his angry temperment. He's
quite undisciplined and really runs with his anger, which is not a quality in a
public servant. I don't belong to LDS but I find Reid very disappointing.
If one just researches what Reid has said about his political opponents, about
the war in Iraq, about the US military, etc, etc, his actions have been
despicable. There are some decisions in life that can't be remade, you do the
best you can with the information you have at the time. War is one such
decision, none more important. Yes Reid, and a majority of democrates, voted
for the war and now he says, among other things, it is the worst foreign policy
decision ever. If so, he is as responsible as anyone. He is an embarrassment!
According to a very thoughtful talk given by Elder Oaks a few years ago it is
not possible to be a "good" pro-abortion Mormon - Republican or Democrat
If you want to know what Mr. Reid is denouncing when he comments on Pres. Benson
Google "The Proper Role of Government" and you can read it for yourself. Since
we can't post URL's on this overly controlled website.
I am currently serving in Iraq as a Soldier. I am offended that Senator Reid
was so welcomed at BYU to spout his propoganda. He is not fairly stating the
good we are doing for the people of Iraq.I am not here to judge him
because all I know of him is what he says in public. I am not there when he has
his temple recommend interviews. But, from what he says in public about
abortion and gay marriage, it certainly doesn't seem like he supports the
Brethren.I wish Senator Reid would reconsider his political
positions because I do not think they are consistent with Church doctrine. I
hope those that heard his speech were not blinded by the craftiness of men!
Although I disagree with a lot of his liberal views on government, I very much
respect his conviction and commitment to the Church. The Republican Party
doesn't and shouldn't have a monopoly over the LDS church. As long as you are
pro-life, I believe you can be a mormon democrat. My grandfather was a democrat
and an active member of the church his whole life(Bishop and Stake President).
So Reid is now a spokesperson for Mormons and Republicans is he? He asks us to
ignore our teachings and beliefs and to embrace the Democratic party line. He is
Isn't it hilarious how the Rush Limbaugh-sounding Utahns like to speak for the
Scotwright -What planet do you live on? Mr Reid is a great example to all,
especially members of the LDS Church. As to the military - who cares -
they are the disgrace - take a look around the world ( with Iraq and Vietnam
showing the worse side of military persons and their actions)
I agree wholeheartedly with Scotwright! Anyone who doesn't should read Ann
Coultler's book "Treason." And to have someone say that we ought to worry less
about abortion and gay marriage and worry more about global warming and jobs is
simply trying to water down the teachings of the church. Will the next General
Conference will focus on global warming?? No, but I think the church leaders
will have more to say about gay marriage or abortion than they will about the
global warming farce.
This guy is a joke.He does not hold the beliefs to his heart.His is
on of those that call evil good and good evil.He reminds me of the
BOM leaders that would not send supplies to Capt. Moroni.
I think it sad how people slam Reid for supposedly not living his religion when
they do not realize that they are not living their religion by the vitriolic
words they use against him.
The reporter heard a different talk than the one they broadcast? He makes it
sound judgmental, controversial, sensational.Go listen to the replay
(next Sunday sometime) orin the 'Find a Talk' database on BYU
Broadcasting's website -- you'll hear a whole different view in what he actually
said.The only thing we could fault 'Brother' Reid on, was
generalizing ALL 'Mormons' to have any particular belief or behavior, such as
the implication they are [blindly] obedient. Yes, some are, just like
any other group, but that's "in spite of their faith" and "not because of
it".He, and you, and I, cannot reduce the LDS Church to just another
man-made organization, such as a political party. The Bashers would like to
have you think that way. But anyone doing that gives away a shallow spot in
I am very distrurbed that he wants members of the church to worry less about gay
rights and more about health care and other issues that are generally viewed
upon as democrat agendas.I believe we NEED to worry first about the
morality of a country before anything else. If a country has terrible morality
it will get destroyed ( SODOM AND GOMMORHA). Moreover if our general
morality is weakening any chance of an effective society is also weaking. The
reasoning behind this is clarified by one question WHAT IS THE BASIC UNIT
OF SOCEITY?THE FAMILYIf we are not worried about abortion, gay
rights, and just general morality we stand to greatly weaken our society and
I would not say Brother Reid is a disgrace to the Church. I see Republicans and
Democrats as "effective" and "less effective" respectively, not "good" and
"evil."However, Reid sends a mixed message on mixing religion and
politics. He wants to state publicly what is right and wrong with the Church.
But he does not want the Church to state publicly what is right and wrong with
the government. Doesn't that seem backward?Also, criticizing
President Benson, one of the Lord's prophets and a good man, was not a
particularly good move on Reid's part. And attacking President Bush for
mispronouncing words is not going to win friends or influence people either.
Here's the deal...I choose to take a stand on abortion and gay marriage that is
similar to what the current prophet and the doctrines of the church dictate. My
opinions and actions about health care, global warming, education and jobs are
insignificant in relation to my moral character.
Sen. Reid reminds me of the kid in the out-crowd who will say and do anything to
get to hang out with the popular kids.
Let us be Christians all and practice love and charity towards another. I
appreciate the fact that our Church doesn't espouse any political party.
It is unbelievable that students and others could be so supportive of an
advocate of Socialism by Carl Marx, which was just the opposite of What Joseph
Smith advocated. All of his positions are true socialism and will eventially
lead us down a path of total destruction in this country if we do not wake up.
These were the very things that Ezra Taft Bensen tried to warn us about that
very few have heeded.To have him stand up in a University forum and
criticize President Bensen and others who are of a consevative nature is
offensive and reprehensive to me. While I am not a supporter of the Iraq war and
have never been, it is appalling to me that he and his party can be so critical
of the the war and the 4,000 or so deaths that has occured, but totally ignore
and actually support abortion which continues to murder innocent babies at the
count of millions since the legalization of Roe v. Wade. This guy is
a total disappointment to me and I hope and pray that some day He will come to a
realization of his incorrect philosiphies.
Scotwright, I am not a democrat or republican. If you are a Mormon and say that
Reid is a disgrace to yur Church, you must have some problems. Most of the
Mormons that I know do not behave as their ultra enemies: the ultra right
Christians of the Republican party.
Churchill was also an alcoholic atheist: a good model for any Mormon.
Talk about a compartmentalized life. It seems unfathomable that Mr. Reid who
walks arm in arm with liberal organizations such as Daily Kos and Moveon.org
would be lauded by so many LDS people while he "seeks after these things." I'm not LDS, but I am looking. I am conservative and I do know a little
about the LDS doctrine and I find the separate silos Mr. Reid lives in at work
and at church are hardly reconcilable with LDS doctrinal claims of virtue and
holiness. Mr. Reid's example gives me considerable pause. Calling
President Bush "an idiot" as Senator Reid has, seems to strike me as calling his
neighbor Racca or empty head. This is who you laud? And before the indignant
liberals begin throwing rhetorical stones at me let me remind them that calling
your neighbor an idiot is a sin in YOUR doctrine. Now start throwing.If indeed Mr. Reid is an example of "temple worthy" member as he himself
claims and that status allows for public support of move-on.org I don't know
that I want to be "temple worthy".
With more and more liberal professors and now Reid getting a warm welcome I am
through with BYU. The Church may own it but the spirit is gone. Flamers are
warned I will not read your comments.My only reason in posting this
is to let BYU know they can stop calling. I will no longer donate.
According to research by Mark T. Shirey, citing Nice Guys Finish Seventh: False
Phrases, Spurious Sayings, and Familiar Misquotations by Ralph Keyes, 1992, this
quote was first uttered by mid-nineteenth century historian and statesman
Franois Guizot when he observed, Not to be a republican at 20 is proof of want
of heart; to be one at 30 is proof of want of head.
A disgrace to the church? Are you kidding me? Why, just because he states his
opinion? Bravo to Harry Reid for saying what he believes. That is what
freedom of choice is all about. Can you be a Democrat and a Mormon?
Absolutely. I am an independent voter who has voted both sides of the aisle.
And also a recommend holding Mormon. I'd vote for Harry Reid over George Bush
any day of the week.
Reid's address was wonderful! Scott, above, is wrong. Reid is a fine example of
an outstanding Latter-day Saint. I have had it with our current Bushwhacker.
Sending a woman (an outstanding and a fine woman) to deal with foreign Muslims
is joke. Doesn't Bush know that women are dirt to most foreign Muslim males?
As a drafted veteran, it is past time to get out of Muslim
countries. No one can stop them from killing each other. We should spend our
funds and time protecting ourselves, on our lands, borders, and shores from
these foreign Barbarians.
Isn't it the belief of the church to let people have their agency, even if
people choose to sin?
Reid leads by example. We need to cozy up to Move-on.org, I think they ARE
Christlike deep down inside.
I DON'T like this guy! He is a disgrace to the Church and to the state of
Nevada. The lies he has told against the American Military should have everyone
at BYU booing him. That someone could cheer "Dingy Harry" at BYU is evidence
that anyone who tries to live the Gospel is welcome in the LDS Church. Abortion was supposed to be something that Mr. Reid was against, but it seems
that every evil, stupid, self-serving, worldy position is OK to him if it gives
him a little power in the Dreamocrat Party. I was a Democrat and a Baptist in
1960 when John Kennedy was President. After a lot of experiences, some good and
some bad, I am a Vietnam Veteran who is now a Latter Day Saint and a Very
Conservative Republican. Winston Churchill said that if you were not
a liberal at twenty years of age you had no heart. Then he said if you were not
a Conservative at 30 you had no brain. Mr. Reid is over 30 and it is just about
time he grew a brain.
I like this guy! He sticks to his guns and says what he thinks. He even praises
his LDS Church and strangely doesnt get the same support from his members as
Mitt does who tries to 'distance' himself from his Church. Strange huh!!