Payday lenders tells military 'no'

Companies refusing loans at mandated lower rate

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  • Anonymous
    Nov. 10, 2007 2:50 p.m.

    wow utah is lost.I stumbled on this blog and its kinda funny.People think that payday lending is a problem.You can take away the service but you wont take away the need.internet pdls are 3xas much as these store front state regulated lenders the need doesnt go away!The need is there because of the demand. I HATE my credit cards to but I dont want them banned.Just because people dont have good credit doesnt mean they dont need money. Use your own mind and dont let the so called do gooders make your decisions for you.Giving banks a non compete in Utah is a bad idea banks are raising there credit standard and turning there backs on this part of society. Giving banks all the lending power is a stupid idea research how banning pdls in Maryland has really hurt the middle class as much as the lower middle.Banks pushed for this and continue in other states.If you want to point the finger at the problem you might need to look in the mirror.own up its hard to do but its the honest way

  • mil man
    Oct. 26, 2007 1:18 p.m.

    I really think it is unfair that they (gov) has banned this because.. being a single father of 4 young children with a mortgage, high utility bills, car repairs/upkeep, children's needs, etc., there comes times that things pop up out of the blue and my family runs short for food for the kids. Now my kids get to suffer because I don't qualify for welfare, can't get a quick loan, and the local agencies laugh at you when you ask for help. Even the military relief.. say oh can't help! So thanks gov. for letting my kids suffer once again! Yes some people get addicted and over the heads in debt but that is their fault! Life happens and they must learn from their own mistakes but now children go without nice meals instead!

  • Student
    Oct. 10, 2007 11:17 a.m.

    I think that it is a good idea to give members of the military special discounts on loans but not at the expense of the loan company. They should get somewhat of a discount, while allowing the loan companies to stay in business. Althought I do agree that 36% is still a lot on a loan and that they should be able to make money on that. On the other hand I see the position that the government is trying to but the vets in. The vets should exhaust every other possibility of getting help through vet programs, relief programs with their church, military relief groups, family or others for help before taking out a loan. I am not saying that they should automatically go looking for handouts but they shouldnt get themselves in deeper and deeper debt before getting help from these special programs.

  • The Truth
    Oct. 4, 2007 3:20 p.m.

    Here Here Roobah. What's the APR when our fine upstanding Banks in this country charge $25 - $35 on a $10 overdraft item on a 1 day period. Tell me the militray credit unions are going to stop charging those fees to our bravest.

    People don't have any clue how much this law is going to HURT the military instead of helping it. This law has taken the freedon of choice away from our county's finest, and because of the fact that we underpay these folks, they folks have little or now chance to short term financing to help them out in times of need.

    Maybe if our legislators really cared about our military, they would pay them more then the poverty line in this country so that they wouldn't need payday loans. Instead of trying to judge them maybe they should try to impower them.

  • Roobah
    Oct. 4, 2007 3:44 a.m.

    "Walker said, "This law will force the members of the military to choose between MORE EXPENSIVE alternatives....."

    That paragraph says it all -- caps highlight the point... Just what do you think KEEPS payday lenders in business? A recent Deseret News article pointed out that THOSE fees approach 2000% APR -- when one considers that cost, 521% APR starts to look pretty good. When a bank charges as much as $39 per return check and a daily or hourly fee for each period of time the check is not paid, post-dated and payday loans become a "cheaper" alternative.

  • Outsider looking in
    Oct. 3, 2007 2:21 p.m.

    What happened to personal responcibility in this country?

    Everyday we keep trying to regulate every aspect of the lives of the "uneducated ignorant masses" for their own protection.

    Lets think for those who are too stupid to think for themselves

    Surely all the critics who have spoken in the forum and labeled this industy "loan sharks" would have never been foolish enough to use these services.

    So why are they so upset?

    Are they confused that APR stands for ANNUAL PERCENTAGE RATE and that payday loans are not annual loans so APR is really non applicable?

    Did someone force them into one of these stores and demand thay take money?

    Or just maybe did they do so because it was the easy thing to do. Did they trick themselves into beliveing that the funds that they just borrowed would just materialize when time to repay?

    Its always easier to rationalize away responsibility then to accept it.

  • Anonymous
    Oct. 3, 2007 12:46 p.m.

    I think that the members of the military will just use pawn shops more....Then they can pay even more interest . Our congressmen are so smart.

  • TruthTeller
    Oct. 3, 2007 10:55 a.m.

    I guess our fellow Americans are just too stupid to read and understand plainly posted fees notices at a payday lender store. I'm sure that it might be worth 15.00 to borrow 100 to get your car fixed, and save your job-but why give them that option? It's not like we live in a free country or anything like that.
    While we're at it, it looks like we have a bunch of dumb people taking out mortgages-let's stop that too-we have to protect these fools from themselves after all.
    I guess the best option really is putting the arm on one's parents and friends.
    Thanks to all who want to take options away from the American people. You are so wise.

  • FritZ
    Oct. 3, 2007 10:21 a.m.

    What about the whole income to dept ratio that if you're in the military and your dept is more then your income you DON'T have to go to war??? I've heard that's what a lot of military were doing do keep from going. But we can't say that, no that's bad press...

  • The Truth
    Oct. 3, 2007 9:51 a.m.

    It amazes me that an article can be printed that so mis represents the facts. If you had done your research you would know that the DOD act not only limits the APR to 36% but it also expressly forbids any loans that are secured by a check or auto title. Payday lenders didn't CHOOSE not to do these loans. It is against the law for them to lend to the military now.

  • ? for Lender
    Oct. 3, 2007 9:31 a.m.

    Lender, under what terms of the loan would you only make 1.38? Under those same terms, how much do you make with your current interest rate? Lastly, can you stay in business with that amount or do you rely on default to make your money?

  • To Lender
    Oct. 3, 2007 9:15 a.m.


    Since it appears that you are in the business, now is your chance to defend yourself. Take out your calculator, do an imaginary loan for $500 with your current interest rate. If you have the guts to post on here what the balance will be after 12 weeks, and you can honestly say that you aren't taking advantage of someone who you know will NOT repay the loan on their next payday.

  • Lender
    Oct. 3, 2007 8:49 a.m.

    We CANNOT stay in business and charge 36% APR. At that rate we would only generate $1.38 for a $100 loan. You tell me what financial services company can stay in business and only make $1.38 on a loan. That wouldn't even pay the teller their wages to say "Hello". And Utah state law prohibits payday loan companies from charging interest past 12 weeks. Common sense... the shorter the term on a loan the higher the APR has to be to even break even!!

  • Anonymous
    Oct. 3, 2007 8:27 a.m.

    Ignorance is bliss on this thread. How many of you would be upset if 1 in 4 or 2 in 5 of the products you purchased were defective and you had no means of replacing the product because the company was no longer around? That is the default rate on these types of loans. How many of you want to lend your money to people knowing that 1 in 4 or 2 in 5 people will never repay because they simply never intended to?

    $15 per $100 loaned allows these companies to survive if they can keep the default rate below the ratios mentioned above. You cannot compare these rates to auto or home loans. Those loans are collateralized which means the lending institution has a means of recovering should the borrower default. The payday lenders do not have collateral on their loans and if a borrower wants to they can become invisible.

    The amount of work required to collect on these defaults far exceeds any of the fees that are charged. The lenders only make money if the customer makes their payments as agreed. The problem in this industry is the users themselves lack financial discipline.

  • george
    Oct. 3, 2007 8:10 a.m.

    While I would agree bias' are showing, I do not believe that just because someone is in the military - that they are patriotic. Usually it is because of economic condition - not patriotism. ( particularly - in case of those that use these services). As for shining boots ----- does it matter???????????

  • Sdem
    Oct. 3, 2007 8:06 a.m.

    These "lenders" do not make enough money off the others they lend to, that they cant drop their rates for people serving their country? I hope they all get run out of business then by the government

  • Me
    Oct. 3, 2007 1:25 a.m.

    Be realistic. The people using these types of businesses, military or civilian, aren't going to apply the lessons learned in any financial classes until they hit rock bottom, but by then their finances and credit have already gone down the tube.

    For example, in the military there are four necessities: girls, beer, cars and internet (not listed in particular order) PFC Joe Snuffy is not going to pay attention to any financial education classes, even if he is required to attend them and policed to stay awake during the class...Also, since while he's deployed the only one of these necessities he can have is internet, he'll find some way to blow his money, like purchasing weight suppliments, energy drinks, plasma TVs, play stations, and computers before he gets home. Therefore, when he gets home and blows the rest of his money on a brand new car he can't afford, he'll use whatever means necessary to get a loan to acquire his other necessities.

    This is one of those things that the only solution is regulation...I'm sure most disagree with that statement, but it's true. Joe isn't going to blow his money on something if he isn't allowed to do so

  • Lee
    Oct. 3, 2007 12:20 a.m.

    What ever happened to personal responsibility. Why do we have to have the government step in and pass a law to protect our own stupidity?

    But if we are going to pass a law what about credit card companies who charge $249.00 in annual fees on a credit card with a $300.00 limit? What would the annual APR on that be? What about banks that make more in "fees" than they do in actual interest?

    While we are at it, why not pass a law that gives all our money to the government and let them tell us what to buy, where we live, what job we have, etc. so that we don't ever have to worry bout 'preditory' lenders, banks or credit companies again.

    Education (and personal application of that knowledge) regarding financial and personal responsibility is the on only answer to this problem.

  • Dave
    Oct. 2, 2007 11:33 p.m.

    Soon these loan sharks will see a new law requiring them to offer their services to the military. It's just a short time, the loan sharks will get their come-uppance on this issue. Many can play this game, and we the people, thru our lawmakers, can call the loan sharks to task. 36% is still pretty darn high for a paycheck that's usually no risk for the loan company.

  • Jason
    Oct. 2, 2007 9:54 p.m.

    Payday lenders are a cancer in Utah. They prey on the poor and uneducated and deprive them of what little money they have. As one of the largest contributors to statewide political campaigns they also have been able to thwart legislation that would impose even minimal limits on their loan rates. Because our state legislature has done absolutely nothing to stop them from exploiting our military service members, the federal government had to step in. I'm glad that they did. Maybe we'll see some close shop now around Hill.

  • Joe Moe is right
    Oct. 2, 2007 9:31 p.m.

    Deeper issue to this problem is unfulling materialism of the majority of country's population.

  • Spanish Fork
    Oct. 2, 2007 9:04 p.m.

    Before the mid 70s we had usury laws against this sort of thing. It was also called "loan sharking," and the debtors had the fear of broken fingers to help them pay up. The military is in a similar situation. These loan sharks threaten to inform their command if they don't pay up, along with garnishment of wages, a much heavier hammer than the civilian population. Why do you suppose that there are so many of them just outside of the military gate? Unpaid debt can be a serious career breaker, and makes the service member ineligible for a security clearance or overseas deployment.

  • Hang on
    Oct. 2, 2007 8:33 p.m.

    As a person who has worked for an online payday loan company, might I add one note. For our company, the average customer made between $30K and $60K a year. These aren't exactly poor or needy people. These are people who simply have never been taught to SAVE. Its the same for anyone, military or not. Whatever you are earning, a piece needs to be put aside for a "rainy" day. I'm a poor college student and its a simple lesson. Don't be fooled. The payday loan industry thrives for one reason, people are not being taught to save for hard times. Teach your kids this lesson, then the payday loan industry will disappear.

  • Dale
    Oct. 2, 2007 6:15 p.m.

    Guns don't kill people, the government does.

  • my 3 cents
    Oct. 2, 2007 5:50 p.m.

    I don't like these guys. But, like bars and tabacco stores, they exist here and are frequented by consumers. We have our free agency. We can budget better - perhaps doing without that trip to McDonalds, or do (gasp!!) without Cable or Satalite TV. Some might even be happy without cell phones. and doing without a credit card could happen. But, because folks have not learned to live within their means they rely on borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. If the military can't borrow , it's because a company has made the business decision not to lend. Maybe instead of getting mad at the pay day loan industry, we get mad at irresponsible people who have not learned how to balance the checkbook and live within their means.

  • park city
    Oct. 2, 2007 5:31 p.m.

    i love all these 'educated' people talking about how payday loans make a killing. the real killing is running a bank. you got a society of people who think they are high-class [because they don't have to go to a payday loan place] but all these people are still living paycheck to paycheck more or less. and then if you just process their withdrawals before their deposits, bingo. 39 bucks a pop.

  • Fredd
    Oct. 2, 2007 5:19 p.m.

    George--It speaks to the kind of people recruited into the military? Patriotic young kids living away from home for the first time? I hope you see this post. You are not fit shine the boots of our young military members. very few use these services but they are aggressively marketed to them. maybe they should follow Utahn's example and declare bankruptcy? Of course the military will punish them for that. And for bouncing checks. Did you ever think they use these services to avoid the consequences of financial irresponsibilty that their non military peers routinely get themselves into?

  • Barry Nay
    Oct. 2, 2007 4:15 p.m.

    I think it is time that our legislature says "NO" to pay-day loan business. Rates that high (36% or 536%) are usury pure and simple. They prey on the segment of the population that are the most needy and can least afford it. They are predatory. I say we ban them entirely in our state or limit their rates to something more sane like we do credit card companies.

  • BH
    Oct. 2, 2007 4:11 p.m.

    Ogden, Utah:
    That's Great! Now that's what I'm talking about!

    People of action that feel they can make a difference and do what they can, instead of sitting back and complaining about the injustices in the nation, and expecting the government to further legislate and control our lives, in order to protect us from ourselves.

  • ogden, utah
    Oct. 2, 2007 3:59 p.m.

    actually, BH, some high minded people who think these placse should be out of business have done exactly that -- it's called Utah Saves, and it shows people how to save an emergency fund to get past the emergencies that send them to payday loan shops. They don't charge any interest, the service is free, and people learn to live independently.

  • ogden, ut
    Oct. 2, 2007 3:57 p.m.

    members of the military who use payday loans need to be told no -- as do anyone else who uses them. Really, the rates they charge are so usurious that the only way anyone needs their service is if they have so badly botched their personal finances that no other option is open, and this is not an option so much as it is a bear trap.

    Sadly, they are a reflection of the American mania of the last several generations to always want what we want when we want it -- delayed gratification is a mystery to most people. Anyone can save what these places loan, typically several hundred dollars, that is enough to handle any small emergency without paying these sort of interest rates.

  • Thomas
    Oct. 2, 2007 3:38 p.m.

    What's hilarious is that the same government that condemns the "predatory lending" of payday lenders, out-loansharks the worst of them when it comes to interest and penalties on unpaid taxes.

    There should be a Constitutional amendment that requires the government to abide by every single law it imposes on the rest of us.

  • BH
    Oct. 2, 2007 3:36 p.m.

    Hey, here is an idea. All you high minded people that think these payday loan places should be out of business need to get together and open up your own payday loan store. Set your rate at say 25% interest. Your competition will drive the 500% dudes out of business. And think of the moral service you will be doing for your cusotmers.

    What, you say it more funto whine about the other guy and demand that the government do something about this "great travesty" than do anything yourself. Oh, you say that when you really do the numbers, you wouldn't make any money considering the cost of initiating loans that last only 1 or 2 weeks, to high-risk applicants?

    Here is another solution. Each of you can start offering financial counseling to the military. That is another way of driving them out of business.

  • george
    Oct. 2, 2007 3:33 p.m.

    Why blames the business person, at least he is clear on what he charges. Either educate the fools that use these companies or/ oh yes ....I forgot .... it speaks to the kind of people recruited into the military!!!

  • Hey Absolute...
    Oct. 2, 2007 3:19 p.m.

    What makes you think that James V. Hansen is still in Congress representing the 1st District in Utah? Check your facts (and current list of Congressmen) out before posting. It'll increase your apparent intelligence quotient considerably. Please don't use Wikipedia as a "reliable" source. It's like reading grafitti on bathroom stalls as far as an accurate source of information.

  • Payday for the poor
    Oct. 2, 2007 2:58 p.m.

    Perhaps the military should hold financial courses for its troops? Obviously, anyone using payday lenders does not know how to manage their money.

  • veedub
    Oct. 2, 2007 2:44 p.m.

    The solution is simple. Since payday lenders claim they can't survive on 36% interest rate, we should encourage the legislature to make that (or a lower) rate required for all borrowers, not just the military. Then we might be free of this scourge of usurers.

  • Tom Lvell
    Oct. 2, 2007 2:37 p.m.

    Your doing them a favor, payday loans are A SCAM!

  • Usary laws past due
    Oct. 2, 2007 2:10 p.m.

    All consumers need usuary laws. While I appreciate the fact that military personel need protection...So do consumers in general. When credit cards companies can charge around 30% interest...It's radiculous. Caps should be placed on all fees. People don't always bounce checks on purpose, and it doesn't take many insuffient funds fees @ $ 18.00 a whack to put you on a downward spiral that's hard to get out of. While increased risk should require a higher rate, and if you bounce a check, there should be a fee(A limit as to how many they can impose in a given time frame shouldn't be asking too much.)...There's no excuse for charging more than 18% interest.

  • Financial Education
    Oct. 2, 2007 2:04 p.m.

    Concerned for the Military:

    It does disgust me that people are borrowing money from payday lenders. The best way to avoid payday loans is with knowledge. People should try to become financially educated. Parents should teach their children how credit works, how to prepare a budget, how to save for a rainy day, and how to invest. High schools should offer a math course that focuses on the basics of personal finance.

    We live in a capitalist society - if you want to be a good citizen in this society, then become financially literate.

    I'm also concerned about the military. My father is retired army and my brother is preparing to leave for a tour in Iraq. I grew up around the military. Based on my 18 years of observation gained from growing up in military communities, I can say that many members of the military would benefit from financial education.

  • dougb
    Oct. 2, 2007 1:26 p.m.

    It is immoral and embarrasing the way less thoughtful people are jumping the gun here and trying to argue two completely incongrous arguments in an effort to paint the Payday lenders as the bad guys.

    Either the Payday lenders are simply a necessary financial tool for the poor since our banks and credit unions are so rapaciously unserving of a family fallen on hard times *or* they are luxury quick loan that should never be used by our armed forces that we admitedly do such a poor job of supporting as a nation and they should be *commended* for protecting our soldier's families from a service they can't afford.

    If they *should* offer services to military then you seem to be arguing it's not an overprofitable racket, but if they *shouldn't* then why wouldn't you commend them?

    You can't have it both ways, lol.

  • Concerned for the Military
    Oct. 2, 2007 1:12 p.m.

    How and why are we not calling our government officials to cause an investigation on why it is alright to profile our military men and women. You say these people need an education on fiscal responsibility? For what, being too poor to buy food or pay rent (not living on base). Why does every one profess to care about their neighbors and then talk crap on them when they are in need? Where is Christ in all this? Why haven't the good people of this Nation and the State of Utah rallied around to put these thieves out of business? This is not a good situation where we as Christ like people stand around and do nothing but write on a message board. If you are in disgust, call or write a member of the local legislature or other official to make some change on behalf of these families, all families. Remember the rule, the one with the most gold makes the rules... how sad that our officials turn their backs on the very people who have elected them, you would think they would listen and do politics our way...

  • Financial Education
    Oct. 2, 2007 12:55 p.m.

    The Payday Lenders are a reflection of our society. Unfortunately, many people in our society do not understand the basic principles of wealth. For example, many do not understand the difference between income and wealth or the difference between needs and wants. This lack of understanding causes problems for many people.

    In order for a society to be wealthy, its citizens must learn how to be wealthy.

  • absolute
    Oct. 2, 2007 12:45 p.m.

    I want all of you to do me a favor on this message board, get out your pen & paper or keyboard. Write your thoughts in a letter to our legislature. This is a HUGE problem. Look around, as stated in one example, one person making 70K can't stay a float. This effects everyone, since we are a whole as an economy, local or national. Aren't we lucky to live in a country where free capitalism roams & you can make a buck from those drowning in debt? These people don't care about ethics or what is right. Laws have flaws, so let's make a difference people. Use your time wisely contribute to society and please write to the following:
    James V. Hansen (District 1), James Matheson (District 2) or Chris Cannon (District 3)
    Utah State House of Representatives
    W030 State Capitol Complex
    Salt Lake City, Utah 84114

    Telephone (801) 538-1029
    Fax (801) 538-1908

  • Skeptic
    Oct. 2, 2007 12:40 p.m.

    Every member of the US military has access to free housing and meals, and a paycheck substantially above the minimum wage. Any who are living hand to mouth are high risk borrowers, plain and simple - and this is understandable since a great many of them are spending their first months and years outside their parents' household. I'm afraid this law is having the unintended - but foreseeable - consequence of depriving them of a service which they would prefer to be able to use.

    Education of every new enlisted person would be a better alternative, more consistent with American ideals of free enterprise and personal responsibility.

  • Elizabeth
    Oct. 2, 2007 12:40 p.m.

    I would love for a company to become available to the American public who would give 7-9% personal loans to Americans all over the country like in the 70's. What a relief and comfort it would be to the military and the poor and the needy! You are punishing the very men and women of our country who provide the very freedom you enjoy while raping and pilaging the very people who need the service the most. What has our political self tell us about us? We are the greediest nation in the world, no wonder other nations hate us, we use our own people to get rich off of. And the politicians, well, it's all a bunch of the same old stuff, democrats promise to help and republicans alike are all the same. I pity this nation, the needy and poor need us, but all the while we are fleecing the poorer of the poor!!! Shame on all of us, we use to be a great nation, one with a helping hand, now the hand can be found only in the pockets of our poor and military who have choosen to protect all the idiots making the golden rules!!!

  • Elizabeth
    Oct. 2, 2007 12:35 p.m.

    I would love for a company to become to the American public who would give 7-9% personal loans to Americans all over the country like in the 70's. What a relief and comfort it would be to the military and the poor and the needy! You are punishing the men and women of our country who provide the very freedom you enjoy while raping and pilaging the very people who need the service the most. What has our political self tell us about us? We are the greediest nation in the world, no wonder other nations hate us, we use our own people to get rich off of. And the politicians, well, it's all a bunch of the same old stuff, democrats promise to help and republicans alike are all the same. I pity this nation, the needy and poor need us, but all the while we are fleecing the poorer of the poor!!! Shame on all of us, we use to be a great nation, one with a helping hand, now the hand can be found only in the pockets of our poor and military who have choosen to protect all the idiots making the rules!!!

  • Give me a break!
    Oct. 2, 2007 12:24 p.m.

    Those payday loan business owners aren't worthy of licking the bottoms of the boots of the great soldiers of our country who are defending our country. These so-called honest business owners are taking advantage of everyone with such exorbitant loan fees and interest rates. The least they can do is follow federal law.

  • Mercy
    Oct. 2, 2007 12:11 p.m.

    At least we are one step closer to limiting these LOAN SHARKS. Back in the early 1900's with the Mafia, their loan sharks would charge 150% and that was sick then. Please don't tell me that there are people out there who think that 500% is ok!! It is wrong people. I have personally worked on behalf of consumers in crisis, and I once worked with one person who had 10 Loans. I tried to help her work out payment arrangements with these places like Check-City, Dollar-Loan Center, Fast Cash, and every single one of them went back on their word, screwed her over and took her to an attorney. They skipped collections all together and took her right to court. These people are absolutely ruthless and have no mercy. Do not side with them, support legislation against them!! Take it from someone who has worked directly with them many times before on the consumer's behalf. They are dragging down our middle-income and lower-income classes and it has already started coming back to bite the US economy. Open your eyes it affects all of us.

  • Steve from Jacksonville, Fl
    Oct. 2, 2007 12:06 p.m.

    I was active duty for 6 years. In that time, I received base pay, free housing (or comparable allowance) and free food (or comparable allowance). What do these servicemembers do with their paychecks? I used to party hard, blow cash on music and stereo equipment, and still had money left as an E-3.

    Perhaps they have more kids than they can afford (a situation I made sure not to be in.) The military is the only institution I know of that pays members more for having dependents.

    At the end of the day, these reckless service members are being victimized by legalized loan sharks. The only solution to this problem as I see it is to teach these service members to live within their means and pretend like payday loans are not an option...perhaps a lesson most Americans need to learn.

  • Bulldozer
    Oct. 2, 2007 12:06 p.m.

    Walker said Utah payday lenders will now ask potential customers if they are active members of the military. If they are, "we cannot offer them a loan.

    Oh really - sounds like "profiling" based on a lifestyle choice, that's illegal - ask any gay!

    "you can't force a business to enter into a transaction that causes it to lose money," Walker said.

    Oh really - obviously Walker hasn't been to a hospital emergency room recently. Perhaps he can't find one because illegal aliens have forced them out of business!

  • Hey, CU Lover
    Oct. 2, 2007 12:05 p.m.

    Usually even high risk people can get a $200 overdraft protection from their credit union. And they don't have to pay it back in 2 weeks. They can make a small ($25.00 approx.) monthly payment and pay it off over time. So it protects their credit rating by not bouncing checks, paying bills on time, and paying off a loan over time. Payday lenders are run by people looking to make MONEY, big time MONEY, they are not a service organization looking to help a person out!

  • realist
    Oct. 2, 2007 11:54 a.m.

    wow! there are alot of nieve people out there

  • Love my CU
    Oct. 2, 2007 11:46 a.m.

    I applied for and got a $200 overdraft protection on my checking account at my credit union. It didn't cost me anything! The APR is about 10% and I never have a bounced check fee and if I'm a little short one month, I have $200 to use without any loan approval or extra fees. On average most payday loans are about $200. Wise up, people -- look for and use better sources that are out there and we won't need to legislate paydays out of existence -- they'll dry up on their own!

  • Paycheck to Paycheck
    Oct. 2, 2007 11:37 a.m.

    Payday lenders are taking advantage ot those who cannot even afford to live paycheck to paycheck!

    They should be run out of business. We all need to make our opinions known to our political representatives that this needs to change.

  • Jay
    Oct. 2, 2007 11:14 a.m.

    People ought to be outraged by these loan sharks. It's time for the legislature (State and Federal) to protect all citizens, not just those in the military, and pass meaningful usury laws with a 21% cap on interest rates (still exorbitant and plenty profitable).

  • james
    Oct. 2, 2007 11:01 a.m.

    For those defending these payday loans, just talk to a few people who have had to use this "service". The Lender knows that the probability of the borrower paying off the loan within the first 2 weeks is very, very low. They damn well know that these people are in a bind. They lenders know this, but they use the facade to entice these people in to borrowing. They use anactodal and testimonial evidence on their commercials promoting this service. "Oh, how great...I was only charged $4 for this service". How about interviewing the thousands that have been completely screwed over by this. To those that say that these loans are cheaper than overdraft fees and such, that is just if the borrower pays off the loan in full within the 2 weeks.

  • East Mill Creek
    Oct. 2, 2007 10:59 a.m.

    I do not think anything will be done to change this situatioin.

    Why? I seem to remember that one high Republican official owns one of the biggest payday loan companies in Salt Lake.

    Help me out I do not remember his name or position.

  • Kia
    Oct. 2, 2007 10:51 a.m.

    Wow! Way to support our military men and women! Wonder what they consider as a good rate for THEIR OWN FREEDOM? Must not be worth 36%.

  • Kyle
    Oct. 2, 2007 10:50 a.m.

    Hey everyone on this board! Why aren't you stepping up and offering loans at 36% APR? You all make wonderful armchair lenders. Each and everyone of you who think these payday lenders should offer loans at 36% should offer these loans yourselves at or less than this rate. Unless you are willing to lend your own money to these soldiers you are nothing but hypocrites.

  • c
    Oct. 2, 2007 10:33 a.m.

    This subject has so many double-standards to it that it is laughable. Don't give the loans to military to "protect" them? What about protecting everyone else? Lenders refusing to give the military the loans because they "can't make money off of them?" Now that is so sad! Cry me a river. These places should be out of business.

  • Investment, not Profit
    Oct. 2, 2007 10:18 a.m.

    What sad post. So now lending someone money at astronomical rates and flipping a house for 100% are on the same level? Hardly. Those who are lending money are doing it to people who are desperate and have no other alternative. Buying a home and selling it for profit is a good investment. You aren't selling it to someone desperate. They are paying market value for the good. 500% APY is not market value. Don't lump the two together.
    And for those claiming that bank fees are on the same level as the loan sharks, you are mistaken. I work at a bank. Did you know that it is technically illegal to write a check when you have no funds to cover it? Or to use your debit card when you don't have money in your account? And I know that the bank I work at is willing to work with people on bank fees in desperate situations. Loan sharks don't care. Plus, banks offer overdraft protection accounts that have APY's around 17%. Most people would agree that is a fair rate.

  • Anonymous
    Oct. 2, 2007 10:07 a.m.

    Hey Cort Walker, you're a great american. While those in the military are fighting to preserve YOUR freedoms you are helping to destroy their chance at the "american dream". The Payday loan business is lousy, and I wish that no one had to use it. But to refuse service to our military personnel is just WRONG. Why don't you jack up the interest rate on everyone else by 5% and then maybe you could "afford" to help out those miltary people who are defending the country that allows you to jack them around. By the way, how much are you really going to lose? It's not like Utah has a huge military presence like they do in some states. Payday lenders should step up and help out our men and women in uniform instead of turning away from them.... oh, but I forgot, we do live in the state that supposedly espouses family values and love for one another. WOW, way to prove that.... All for one and one for only my best interests.

  • A K
    Oct. 2, 2007 10:01 a.m.

    is a sign of our culture sell your mom if have to

  • Fredd
    Oct. 2, 2007 9:59 a.m.

    22 years in the military and never used a payday loan. If you need payday loans then you need financial education, not access to 500% interest rates. I remember when banks were going to charge to use a teller because they wanted you to use the ATM so they could cut labor costs. Then they saw the gold mine of charging a fee to withdraw your own money. banks are wealthy powerful instituitions. Banks own these payday loan operations. Don't feel to sorry for them.

  • Profit for me, not for thee...
    Oct. 2, 2007 9:46 a.m.

    I love to see people grouse about "predatory lending" and "price gouging" of payday lenders who make a 36% profit.

    Yet I'm sure these same people think nothing of making up to 100% profit on the sale of a house they bought just a few years earlier.

    But that's okay, because they're good people. Not like those icky loan sharks.

  • the heat
    Oct. 2, 2007 9:38 a.m.

    I see a lawyer feeding frenzy over this military exclusion. If we took better care of our military than they wouldn't need a payday loan. This whole country is built on credit. Just watch, Russia is taking over all the oil supplies, China is getting in on it, all it's going to take is one match, one national disaster and our whole country will go under financially. 80% of the country doesn't have a liquid $1000 available to them.

    There is a bigger problem here, I do hate that worm on tv, and the guy that says "got me some cash" like yeah, you're the man, you just "borrowed" some money, how manly of you.

    We are pretty well off, but it costs a fortune to feed and clothe our family, and I even hit garage sales. Maybe I should go to Peru and realize that one pair of pants is plenty though. We need to get rid of our social expectations, that you can't wear the same outfit in the same week and garbage like that. I guess in a world where we worship Paris Hilton, what can we expect?

  • Troy
    Oct. 2, 2007 9:36 a.m.

    The U.S.Government should take an even firmer stand against these predatory lenders. Include in the legislation the entire populace and rid our society of this debt-incurring menace. The lawyer quoted in the article states; "Refusing service to the the military does not violate laws because you can't force a business to enter into a transaction that causes it to lose money." So how can the American people be forced unwittingly into the same money losing transactions? WE NEED TO WAKE UP! As tax payers can we continue to pick up the tab for these crazy tansactions through our churches, and families, and charitable organizations? We may never have been enticed personally into one of these snake pits, but each one of us will eventually pay the piper for those few who have made a desperate choice. We've already shouldered this financial burden far too long through home foreclosures, repossessions, welfare abuse, and increased criminal activity, just to name a few.

  • cap
    Oct. 2, 2007 9:21 a.m.

    Bob is right about Banks though. Any Bank with all their fees, like overdraft, bounced checks, Late Fes, etc, ALL CHARGE WAY MORE INTEREST THAN PAYDAY LENDERS. Why do you think the Banks are part of the Lobbying effort to help Payday Lenders stay in business. Banks are just as bad, but Payday Lenders take all the heat. Banks disguise the interest rates they charge by calling it a "fee". But if you do the math, they charge just as much or more interest than Payday Lenders.

    Also all you who talk about 36% as high enough, don't realize that these are super risky loans that demand a high return because a lot of them go into default. So to make a profit they have to charge over 36%. If everyone paid their loan back then 36% would be great! But those risky borrowers who need these types of loans default at a high risk.

  • Joe Moe
    Oct. 2, 2007 9:02 a.m.

    Gary, is it really "sick" that a company would charge $10 when someone borrows $100 for a week? That's a 500% rate. We have to realize that these are meant to be emergency, short-term loans.

    I do not really like these lenders, and I've never used one, but I think most of them are legitimate businesses with a legitimate service.

    The real root problems are these: 1) an impoverished class making less and less (relative to the cost of living) all the time; 2) a consumerist society where people feel entitled to buy more "things," without responsible budgeting.

  • Anonymous
    Oct. 2, 2007 8:59 a.m.

    These effect many many people not just the poor. I know somone that makes about 70,000 a year and still juggles 2 or 3 payday loans these hurt and they are hard to get out of they hold people bondage.

  • Payday loan = crack
    Oct. 2, 2007 8:58 a.m.

    "Oh, it's GOOD business" and it's cheaper than "one bounced check".

    People who need a loan "until payday" make a habit of it.....and then, how do they pay off the moneychanger (payday loan shop)? By extending the loan?

    It's the financial equivalent of CRACK. Habit-forming, depressing, "might as well go get more I'm in so deep already".

    These places ONLY stay in business because people constantly roll over their debts.

    It was embarrassing to come home to utah, after months of being out of state, and realize how pervasive these payday loan places are. Embarrassing. It makes us look like we're ALL using them.

  • BH
    Oct. 2, 2007 8:50 a.m.

    Gauglione is right. While I agree that it seems immoral to charge the sort of rates that are being charged, there is no deception involved. These businesses provide exactly the service they promise. The rates are clearly publicized. Everyone knows what the terms and conditions are. We need to let free enterprise regulate the pay day loan business.

    If the consumers would stop using these services, they would be forced to lower their rates, or go out of business. But as long as customers walk in the door and sign the dotted line, that is their choice. And as pointed out, these businesses do provide an alternative to other financial penalties.

    Bob G: You need to do some homework on what constitutes a loan shark. What seems as outrageous rates, do not in and of themselves constitute being a loan shark.

  • Harry
    Oct. 2, 2007 8:43 a.m.

    I have witnessed victims of these predatory loans. They usually borrow the money at rates up to 600% APR for what they expect to be just 2 to 4 weeks. The loan company then banks on the borrower not paying off the loan in the two to four week period. Then the cash register rings for the loan company as these poor victims are ground into dust by the 600%+ interest rate. My experience shows that the victim does not really understand what they are getting into, or that they are desperately in need of immediate cash. At the very least they do not have the discipline to manage their finances wisely. These folks are definitely preyed upon by these financial institutions. Our service men would be better served by using their military related credit unions like NFCU.

  • Gary
    Oct. 2, 2007 8:11 a.m.

    A number of years ago I managed a financial institution where we were charging 36 % per year. The law provided that that rate, even though it was far to high, that the law was set to take care of loaning money to high risk individuals. To know that these financial institutions in question are charging up to 500+% is really sick. And to now say that they are not willing to loan to servicemen for 36%, because they will lose money----------that is fully dishonest. They make far too much money at 36%. I hope that the federal government and our state will start to close out this dishonest form of lending money.

  • Guaglione
    Oct. 2, 2007 8:04 a.m.

    I'm not in any way saying that these places are good for society, but they wouldn't be in business if there wasn't a market for them. Obviously they're the best option for a lot of people. Maybe instead of trying to shut them down we just make sure that people using the service understand exactly what it is they're getting.

    Much like McDonald's; let them serve their burgers the way the people want them, but make sure the public has access to information letting them know the possible detrimental health effects of their choice.

    If people want a product or service, who are we to tell them they shouldn't have it? Let's just make sure that they know what they're getting into.

  • Jonathan
    Oct. 2, 2007 7:42 a.m.

    These things are all over Utah, I have seen more here that in my home state of CA. Something needs to be done about them.

  • Dave
    Oct. 2, 2007 7:36 a.m.

    The pay-day loan people are pretty reasonable when compared to the IRS abd State Tax Commision. They are the real predators.

  • Yeah, you get it
    Oct. 2, 2007 7:09 a.m.

    Utah law only allows interest to be chsrged for 12 weeks, even though it must be reported as an APR. Things aren't always what they seem.

  • dgj
    Oct. 2, 2007 7:08 a.m.

    As a military reservist, I agree that the loss of access to these predatory pay-day loans is a good thing. My concern is that traditional lenders may use the same excuse these guys do that they can't make money when their loans are federally capped at 6% APR during deployments and will stop lending to military reservists. This may lead to difficulties in getting home mortagages, auto loans, or credit cards for these military reservists.

  • Crazy
    Oct. 2, 2007 6:19 a.m.

    These guys are a terrible part of our society. Payday Loans should be put out of business. They entice the young and uneducated who don't understand the issue with compound interest. I don't feel bad for them at all and think it will help the young men and women of the Military. I am grateful for this law.

  • Bob G
    Oct. 2, 2007 4:51 a.m.

    Isn't loan sharking illegal? Just because they have a business license to lend money doesn'e excuse them from loan sharking laws. All these loan sharks should be put out of business because that is all they are. They prey on the poor and low income people that can't afford them anyway and would use a bank if they were able to. The collections department must be just as bad as the office and business owners and use threats on their lives to collect. Why hasn't something been done to investigate these businesses and make them abide by financeing and lending laws?

  • LNDR
    Oct. 2, 2007 4:40 a.m.

    Spread the restrictions. 36% APR for a bounced check. Pennies for the bank. Same with ATM fees. OOPS, there go checking accounts, businesses that accept checks, ATM's. What?! They charge fees not an APR?! Take off your blinders and realize short term loans charge fees like banks and ATM's and are VASTLY cheaper if they prevent even one bounced check.
    McDonough School of Business at Georgetown University found: Payday advance fees are lower than many of consumers alternatives. Bank NSF and merchant fees on bounced checks typically cost more than three times the cost of a $100 payday advance.
    Payday advance APRs are often lower than customers alternatives, even on the same two-week term For example, on a 30-day term, a standard $29 late fee on a $100 credit card payment would have an APR of 771 percent. Similarly, a $100 check with a $25 NSF and a $25 merchant fee would have an APR of 1,303 percent. The study is Payday Advance in America: An Analysis of Customer Demand. Wall Street Journal found similar results, so the the Federal Reserve Bank of New York. Get empirical data, don't rely on anecdotal evidence fed to you by others.

  • mdub
    Oct. 2, 2007 12:24 a.m. can't make a profit on 36%??? I'm sorry, but any lending industry that can't operate on such terms, shouldn't exist. Why can't we legislate this business out of existence??? Just because it's an easy option for people to do, doesn't make it right or good to even have available. Maybe they should do debt counseling instead. Oh wait, they only know how to keep people in a cycle of debt. Not get out of it!!!