Randy Hall says bad publicity about his anti-Satanism group cost him his car-sales job, and he has had to take security measures around his home.

But he is still committed to his cause.Last March, Hall started Movement Against Negative Cult Organizations, a group that has sparked controversy ever since.

Hall and the 87 members of the organization discussed opening a deprogramming center for Satan worshipers. He said plans are indefinite, but the program could include counselors and a "black level" where cult members would view a representation of hell, possibly including live bats and costumed actors.

Debbie Dorsey, spokeswoman for People Against Satanic Satanism, says the goal is noble, but Hall's methods would "add to the problem, not solve it."

"I'm for the cause, but not for his approach."

Dorsey said her organization tries to fight Satanism through spiritual means "rather than scare tactics."

Hall said his plans for the center are "on the back burner," and the chances that the Movement Against Negative Cult Organizations would incorporate a "black level" are "only about 50/50." For now, he is more concerned with getting speaking engagements, he said.

"Getting our message to the schools is our No. 1 priority, and we want to tape the presentation so we can get the word out to the public," he said.

Satanism teaches self-abuse and suicide, Hall said. He has videotapes of people describing animal and human sacrifices performed in Utah.

Hall would not go into detail on his organization's plans. He said with each new member, the group gets new ideas on how to best fight Satanism, so there is no way of knowing the group's next direction.

Hall said his organization has the support of Sen. Orrin Hatch's office and that of important businesses and other individuals he "could not name."

David Porter, Hatch's Utah press secretary, said Hall's request for information on grant money was one of hundreds his office receives each month.

"Randy came to our office and was looking for money to pursue what his group was doing, and we treated it as a routine request. We sent his packet to various agencies that would have information on what grant money was available.

"This is the kind of request we handle for anyone who asks, and our help does not imply the senator's support or opposition for a project."

Detective Gerald Nielsen, spokesman for the Orem Department of Public Safety, said Hall has said the Orem police department supports his organization.

"We have told him he does not have our sponsorship. We do not support any of the anti-Satanism groups that have organized in the area."

Nielson said while Satanism is a problem here, "there is no evidence we're any worse than other areas." He added that it is hard to know how many worshipers practice in this area.

"The kids who are involved say everyone they know is a Satan worshiper. The kids who are not involved say no one they know is."

Dorsey said her organization has pressured Hall to rethink his methods and Hall has threatened to sue for harassment.

"As a citizen, I have concerns over what Mr. Hall is planning," Dorsey said. "All I want is for someone to ask some questions. I am concerned the public is taking MANCO at face value."

Hall said most attacks on his organization by competing groups are inspired by jealousy. He believes his group can do a lot of good for the community and hopes it will eventually grow into a national organization.

Hall urges people with ideas for his group to write him at Box 1542, Orem, UT 84059. Dorsey's group can be contacted at Box 1871, Orem, UT 84059.