How did North Korea and the U.S. get to this point?

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  • rroehale Salt Lake City, UT
    April 18, 2017 1:12 p.m.

    How did we get to this point? Well, here's the simple answer: for longer than I have been alive North Korea has had insane megalomaniacal leaders and finally their technological prowess is starting to catch up with their delusions of grandeur.

  • IceCreamGhost Sandy, UT
    April 18, 2017 12:19 p.m.

    @barfolomew
    Why on earth would the North Koreans send a nuke to Japan or South Korea? What would it serve for them? We would completely wipe them off of the face of the earth and they know this. They would instantly be surrounded by enemies and China may not stand by them.

    North Korea has little man's syndrome. They are outmatched, outspent and outmanned. China wants no part in their tantrums and can cut off their exports if they get out of hand.
    The United States should not take part in pre-emptive strikes. It would result in nothing but death to our military and get us sucked into a pointless land war in Asia. And for what gain? What would be the benefit to us?

    There are many dictators and corrupted politicians all over the globe. It is not up to the United States to police the entire world. We should support refugees and peace talks and point our focus on making our economy and country the best in the world. War is an expensive distraction.

  • Harrison Bergeron Holladay , UT
    April 18, 2017 11:26 a.m.

    "How did North Korea and the U.S. get to this point?"

    Because Bill Clinton conditioned the Norks with rewards for misbehaving. Now it will be very difficult to retrain an old dog.

    But no rational person can say doing the same thing as we have been doing is acceptable.

  • barfolomew TOOELE, UT
    April 18, 2017 10:39 a.m.

    @ IceCreamGhost

    "We dont need to do anything but wait."

    Wait for what? Wait for NK to kill millions with a nuke? You must have an Obama strategic playbook. Look how well that's worked.

    @ Shaun

    "Wasn't 9/11 perpetrated by Saudi's?"

    Actually, no. They were mostly Saudi nationals but were not acting on the Saudi's behalf. They were acting on the Taliban's behalf. Anwar al-Awlaki was an American. Does that mean we need to blame the US government for his actions?

    @ RJohnson

    Actually, I agree with you that we do not want to take any preemptive military action. It surely would cause NK to attack SK or Japan in retaliation. Pressure from all sides needs to be put on NK. China needs to be part of that squeeze. But no reasonable person would simply do nothing. Obama's deals haven't worked. His negotiations haven't worked. UN sanctions haven't work. In fact, these things have only emboldened NK. We need to get out of this silly mindset that we can hug our way out of these situations with these truly evil people.

  • Prometheus Platypus Orem, UT
    April 18, 2017 8:04 a.m.

    What in Tucket? said:
    "Isn't it clear that we fear a nuclear attack on South Korea and Japan?" No it isn't.

    "We are there trying to help our allies."
    Are they asking for our help, or is Trump destabilizing the region while stroking the GOP's ego?

    "One NK prison town has 500,000."
    Don't worry America is still number one, in incarceration of their citizens.

    So how did we get here?
    Two boy/men leaders who are not fit to lead, and think they are "the greatest" they aren't.

  • Shaun Sandy, UT
    April 18, 2017 7:29 a.m.

    @thid. Why was it alright for you to hate Obama but if anybody dare criticize trump it is evil?

    Wasn't it republicans who stated Russia was are biggest worry before trump was accused of cozying up with Putin? Wasn't 9/11 perpetrated by Saudi's? Bush sure did make a distinction between those who harm us and those who harbor them didn't he.

  • What in Tucket? Provo, UT
    April 18, 2017 7:06 a.m.

    Isn't it clear that we fear a nuclear attack on South Korea and Japan? We are there trying to help our allies. One NK prison town has 500,000.

  • IceCreamGhost Sandy, UT
    April 18, 2017 1:05 a.m.

    North Korea is China's problem - they've propped up their crazy cousins now for decades, let them deal with the problem.

    North Korea would never instigate a fight with us, because they would lose. Badly. Kim Jung Un has a big ego and lots of missiles but he cant even feed his own country without massive amounts of aid. Trump needs to see through the talk and bluster and keep pressing on sanctions but pre-emptive strike is a crazy idea that will end in many deaths.
    And to what end? What does the United States gain by being tough with North Korea?
    A land war in Asia? No thank you.

    Starve them quietly, economically. Eventually, like Cuba, these communist ideas fail on their own through corruption. We dont need to do anything but wait.

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    April 17, 2017 10:54 p.m.

    Thid Barker "every comment on here criticizing President Trump's handling of a dangerous, nuclear armed N. Korean dictator has offered not one solution or alternative!"

    Trump hasn't "handled" anything. Trump found that North Korea -- like health care -- is complicated. His current plan is to defer to China. "Let them handle it."

    What do you suppose Trump learned in a 10 minute meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping that caused him to defer to the Chinese? Probably something many of us learned in school.

    North Korea is not a lone wolf that you can take out like Osama Bin Laden. North Korea has some very powerful friends in China and Russia. Attack North Korea and you risk war with China. That is a "bigly" problem, and its no wonder Trump backed down.

  • Thid Barker Victor, ID
    April 17, 2017 7:32 p.m.

    @Shaun: Ever heard of the Taliban? How about ISIS, ever heard of them? How about 9/11, remember that? By the way, Obama got us into war in Syria and we are not at war with Russia even though they took over the Ukraine during Obama's watch! Maybe Kim Jong Un can be stopped before he sends a nuke to your neighborhood? If he does, without a doubt you will blame President Trump! You really need to get over your hatred of President Trump! Hatred is evil and only promotes more evil, like the hate Trump protestors in California violently attacking the police!

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    April 17, 2017 7:07 p.m.

    "We have no intention of invading North Korea or taking hostile action against North Korea" -- Colin Powell, January 2003

    President Bush's foreign policy was the most misguided in decades. He was manipulated into starting wars against false threats while ignoring the real threats.

  • Shaun Sandy, UT
    April 17, 2017 6:59 p.m.

    @thid. Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Ukraine, Russia and now North Korea.

    How many wars and potential region destabilizing do republicans want to tackle all while pushing through a tax cut?

    Also remember the pitch for the Iraq war from W? Mission accomplished, we will been seen as liberators and so on.

    The question is will we learn from the past.

  • Thid Barker Victor, ID
    April 17, 2017 6:28 p.m.

    Its interesting and telling that every comment on here criticizing President Trump's handling of a dangerous, nuclear armed N. Korean dictator has offered not one solution or alternative! What would a liberal do about this? NOTHING until its too late!

  • RJohnson Salt Lake City, UT
    April 17, 2017 5:20 p.m.

    @barfolomew

    "...at what point do you feel that it's time to take more aggressive action to keep your family safe?"

    What aggressive action are you proposing and whose children are you offering up to be a part of that aggressive action? How many South Korean dead is acceptable in the first 24 hours of more aggressive action? These are questions that must be part of any discussion of stepped up, aggressive action on the Korean Peninsula.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    April 17, 2017 4:49 p.m.

    Got this point by a couple of not well thought out tweets from the golf course.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    April 17, 2017 4:48 p.m.

    Huge and Yuge are not the same. Webster will give you a definition of Huge, Yuge is a play on the word reflecting a Brooklyn accent. It is bad enough when Trump slurs his words with his accent, but in written text? Please it makes me cringe.

  • barfolomew TOOELE, UT
    April 17, 2017 3:37 p.m.

    @ GaryO

    You seriously need to look outside this fantasy world you seem to be living in.

    "solid diplomacy"?!!??

    Every President since Clinton has tried diplomacy and sanctions to reign in this regime. They've broken every deal that's been brokered. They've defied every UN mandate put on them.

    So, if a guy in your neighborhood continuously threatens you, and you watch him build up a weapons arsenal while defying - with impunity - all the restraining orders you have against him, at what point do you feel that it's time to take more aggressive action to keep your family safe?

    If you think for one second that Kim Jon Un is going to suddenly say he's sorry and give up his arrogance, you truly do belong in that fantasy world of yours.

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    April 17, 2017 3:14 p.m.

    The only way this turns into a war is if we fire the first shot. Kim is crazy but he's not stupid - he knows he'd lose in about 15 minutes so he's not going to fire the first shot. All this blustering and muscle-flexing is just his way of looking tough to the military leaders in his own country who want to overthrow him.

    It would be interesting to see how China would react to a US/DPRK war. Would they really step in and support their long-time ally, and thereby cripple their own economy by fighting against the country that buys all their cheap junk? I doubt it.

  • geekusprimus Little Elm, TX
    April 17, 2017 2:55 p.m.

    I agree a lot with what Barfolomew has to say. North Korea has gotten so bold because they think China is going to back them up in a war against us. Unfortunately for North Korea, China's economy is so intertwined with ours that war would spell disaster for both our economies, and in conjunction, the world economy. In the event of an attack on the United States or its allies, I think China will be right beside us in crushing a pampered dictator's dreams, if for no other reason than to save their own economy. And I don't think it will be a particularly long war. Maybe a month. Once Kim Jong Un is deposed, it seems unlikely that his people will keep fighting.

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    April 17, 2017 2:52 p.m.

    RE" "Vice President Mike Pence traveled to South Korea on Monday to announce the 'era of strategic patience' is over."

    In other words . . . The solid diplomacy is over, and the era of bluster and Trump is just beginning.

    Trump and Kim Jong-Un are just about identical . . . Except Kim Jong-Un is younger and better looking.

    Hey USALover -

    RE: " President Obama's foreign policy was the weakest in decades."

    That's just more Putin-approved/Trump-approved fake history.

    You can't fairly blame Obama for all the failures of Donald (grab 'em by the wherever) Trump.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    April 17, 2017 2:46 p.m.

    How did North Korea and the U.S. get to this point?

    ====

    Um, perhaps --
    2 tiny little isolated baby men,
    with YUGE egos,
    and nuclear weapons,
    trying to out-prove each other...

    Ever see a bully in a school yard?
    They yell and say all kinds of stuff to provoke others,
    but
    they always get some OTHER kid to go in and do their fighting for them.

  • Fullypresent Salt Lake City, UT
    April 17, 2017 2:39 p.m.

    UtahTroutStalker-Draper, UT
    One has to wonder what the end-game is for N. Korean leaders.

    Perhaps the goal like with some other countries is just to bankrupt us warring abroad. Or, perhaps they just want the long standing pi__ing match to be over. At any rate they haven't learned much since 2006 with all the interventions that have been tried by many presidents.

  • barfolomew TOOELE, UT
    April 17, 2017 2:26 p.m.

    I believe that the arrogance of Kim Jon Un and Kim Jon Il before him was always fueled by their belief that China would back them up in whatever they did just like in the Korean War. I'm pretty sure that they wouldn't be so arrogant if they believed they were on their own. They couldn't possibly think they could defeat the US all by themselves. Seeing Trump and Li cooperate and seeing China turning back NK coal shipments is encouraging. I hope and pray that there are meetings between China and NK taking place where China is telling them they're not going to back them up this time. But then again, this Un moron might feel like he's saber-rattled himself so far into a corner, that he can't lose face by backing down now.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 17, 2017 2:22 p.m.

    Today’s episode of the old TV series of “Gunsmoke” was about a gunslinger seeking to attain the status of “fastest gun” by killing the marshal of Dodge City.

    Upon returning to my computer, the answer to the heading “How did North Korea and the U.S. get to this point” became immediately clear to me. The “old west” didn’t invent the “old west”, It’s been a basic building block for all of human history.

    Later however, my normal brain restored the truth that in both cases, it's just about money.

  • Husker1 Northern Utah County, UT
    April 17, 2017 2:18 p.m.

    How did North Korea and the U.S. get to this point?

    One thing I know for sure- Liberals will blame Trump and conservatives will blame Obama.

    @UtahTroutStalker: "They obviously cannot win a war against the U.S. So making war isn't really in their best interest."

    They've been brainwashed into believing they can win.

  • USAlover Salt Lake City, UT
    April 17, 2017 2:12 p.m.

    How?

    By ignoring them. President Obama's foreign policy was the weakest in decades. He was eloquent...and weak.

  • UtahTroutStalker Draper, UT
    April 17, 2017 2:07 p.m.

    One has to wonder what the end-game is for N. Korean leaders.

    They obviously cannot win a war against the U.S. So making war isn't really in their best interest.

    They seem intent on making threats as a way to compel the rest of the world to deal with them on their own terms. While that has not worked out too well, it has worked out well enough for their leaders while their people suffer.

    So now we have a POTUS that was elected in large part by a populist/nationalist movement that does not believe the U.S. should be the world's police, and yet we find that DJT appears ready to launch Team America back into battle as he flip flops all over the place.

  • KJR Sequim, WA
    April 17, 2017 1:32 p.m.

    Are we at the "brink of war?" Or merely at the "brink of brinksmanship?" The news media tends to think it's OK for North Korea to bluff, bluster, and outright threaten nuclear destruction to South Korea, Japan, and US, but the minute the US pushes back we are "pushing to the brink of war." How many times to we make (and fulfill) promises to North Korea (mostly for food) in exchange for their promises (always broken) to curtail nuclear development? More importantly, do we want to go back to the status quo and condemn another few million North Koreans to starvation, hundreds of thousands to prison camps, and the entire nation to a cloistered existence where they are starved -- physically, intellectually, emotionally, and spiritually. Having read the ramblings of the Kim family in the original Korean and spoken directly with North Korean refugees, I know that the place is even a bigger nightmare than most of America can possibly comprehend.

  • JLindow St George, UT
    April 17, 2017 1:09 p.m.

    North Korea with its chest thumping leader with an inferiority complex is manageable as long as there is an adult in the room. With the election of Trump, the job of Adult now goes to China.