How many times do ya have to take out the play grown and replace it with an
other one. How many foreclosure homes and reposed car's are there out
there. Then to think about insurances that is going up you are forced to have,
inflation is taxing. Tax money goes up as price of the item's.
Anybody that thinks more money won't make a huge difference in our
education system really has no clue.I love when people say
"throw more money". They say it like it actually means something. Our
education system has had to beg and scrape for every dime. I would love to see
the legislature actually throw some money towards our kids instead of their pet
projects.Sad that in a state that is supposed to have a high
priority on families and children, we are the worst and supporting that
claim.Meanwhile we have 4,000 sq/ft million dollar homes going up
all over the state. Kids are constantly checked out of school to go to
disneyland or hawaii in the middle of a semester. Two new cars in each garage.
Yet we can't pay for our schools.Sad.
To JoeCapitalist2 - Orem, UTOne of the problems with firing those
who you designate as " bad teachers" is that there are not enough
applicants out there to replace them. Twenty five years ago, the
number of qualified applicants to teach secondary mathematics was far less than
the number of openings. There are now only about 1/3 as many applicants for
these jobs as there were then. Our teacher training programs are not able to
attract enough students to fill the need in many critical areas.
JoeCapitalist2, Where are all these bad teachers who are sucking up the money
that should go to the good ones? Would you please identify them for us?
You'll have to move fast because, bad or good, they don't stay very
long. We do know that Utah teachers are jumping ship fast. It's
becoming a critical problem. High achieving college grads don't go into
teaching. The people who do go into it abandon it in droves. It's a
miserable, thankless, overwhelming, low-paying job that gets pressure from all
sides and no respect--especially from our busybody, meddling legislature. @Redshirt, 60% of ed funds go to operations (i.e. salaries) and 40% to
facilities--i.e., to keep the walls up and the wind out. A minuscule percentage
goes to administration. So if you're upset that only 60% goes to teacher
salaries, are you suggesting we do without walls and hold class out in the rain?
UtahBlueDevil: "If you want quality teachers - you gotta pay them."While I agree that higher pay (in any profession) will help attract more
qualified applicants; some people seem to think that if you just pay a failing
teacher more money that they will somehow teach better.If we are
going to throw more money at education, we need to make sure that it makes it
possible to REPLACE poor teachers with better ones. If policies are in place
that make it virtually impossible to get rid of a bad teacher even when a more
qualified one wants the job, then it is just throwing good money after bad.
The other points that are being debated here are also just side shows. Utah
does have a robust economy "right now". It's tax policy
hasn't really changed all that much over the last 40 years - and yet
it's economy has swung up and down with other events.High or
low taxes are not indicators of high growth or potential. California has high
taxes, high incomes, and high growth. Other states like Kansas have low taxes,
and low growth. It matters, and yet it doesn't. Places like Boston, New
York City, Seattle, and San Francisco all high cost strutures - and yet are very
healthy cities.Likewise about school funding. While it is true
money doesn't have a high corollary to student success - number of kids on
food assistance does - to say that Utah doesn't have an issue attracting
and retaining teachers would be an understatement. If you want quality teachers
- you gotta pay them. There, the corollaries are real clear.
"Businesses and workers have flocked to the state, which created 49,500 new
jobs in 2016. Unemployment is falling and wages are rising."Just
stop. Utah's growth is not from people moving from outside the state to
Utah, but from organic growth by means of larger than average family sizes.
Its not a good, nor a bad thing... its just a thing.But to claim
people are flocking to Utah is just false. In fact per the US census, Utah
enjoys one of the lowest immigration rates of all states. Lets stick to the
facts. There is nothing wrong with building a strong job base for the current
and future generations of Utahans.
Roland: "The non-partisan Congressional Research Service compiled data on
decades of tax rates and economic growth. They found that there is zero
correlation between the two."If that were really true, then a 0%
tax rate (or a 100% tax rate) could be implemented with no impact on the
economy. Of course there is a correlation between tax rates and economic
growth.Who in their right mind would go to work, start a business,
or invest if the government got nearly all the rewards while taking none of the
risks. Tax rates have always been a balancing act where if they are too high
they cut off growth and if they are too low we don't have enough to meet
government needs.Personally, I think we would have great economic
growth and plenty of funds to run the government (for the things it is actually
supposed to do), if we had long term steady tax rates between 15% and 20%
(total, not for each category). Instead of with fluctuating rates that go up and
down every few years, people could plan for the long term.
To "Howard Beal "now you lie about what I have said?Can you
justify throwing more money at education?Here is the sad thing about
education and the massive amounts of money that we spend. If you took small
groups of kids, like 6 to 8, and just paid somebody the money that we currently
spend per pupil to teach that small group of kids and everybody would be better
off than we are in our current situation. When you look at cities like DC or
NY, you would only need 2 to 4 kids per teacher.Do you even know
that only 60% of the money that the state allocates for education actually makes
it to the classroom? The other 40% is siphoned off for non-teaching purposes.
So, if you want to raise teacher salaries by $1000/year it would take at least
$1700.So tell us, if we raise taxes for education, how will that
money get spent? (I expect an answer to be more than just "education")
If you don't know, then we shouldn't raise taxes.
You're right redshirt. I think we should ask teachers to actually pay for
the privilege to teach our children and I think the learning outcomes of our
students. You're truly on to something...
To "Blue" you missed the point. There is NO connection between spending
on education and outcomes. For example NY and DC spend the most on education,
and have very poor outcomes.Tell us why we should spend more when
there is absolutely no scientific basis to justify it.
The non-partisan Congressional Research Service compiled data on decades of tax
rates and economic growth. They found that there is zero correlation between the
two. Republicans suppressed the story because it contradicts what they have been
selling us, plus their donor class doesn't like it.
Kent: "Utah needs to get rid of the silly flat tax and start requiring those
who benefit most from the state's strong economy to pay more for
desperately needed programs..."A flat tax is a PERCENTAGE of
income, not a fixed amount. By definition those who earn more money have to pay
more taxes and those who earn less pay less.But the 'soak the
rich' progressives are not at all satisfied by that. They want everyone to
not only pay more as their income rises, but pay a higher percentage too.
The reality is, the premise of this article is absolutely wrong.
Evelyn is hoping you won't go and look at her sources. In her article, just
click on the "10 spots" link to go to her source. The people of Utah are
not as naive as she thinks. Here are the highlights: The headline of the article
reads: "Utah Earns a C-Minus on State Report Card, Ranks 32nd in
Nation." Nice Spin Evelyn. Glad we are "ten spots higher" but do you
think people like getting a C- grade? When your kids bring home C- grades, do
you like that? Next quote: "Utah finishes 32nd among the 50 states and the
District of Columbia, with an overall score of 72.0 out of 100 points and a
grade of C-minus. The nation as a whole posts a grade of C." How would you
feel if the public then blamed the C- on you because of your lack of financial
support for your kids? Like this: "In School Finance, Utah receives a
D-minus and ranks 48th." And then here is the real kicker: "Across the
spending indicators, Utah finishes with a letter grade of F compared with a
national average of D. Utah ranks 51st in the nation in this area." Evelyn,
please come be a teacher and try looking kids in the eye everyday and telling
them this is good enough.
Utah needs to get rid of the silly flat tax and start requiring those who
benefit most from the state's strong economy to pay more for desperately
needed programs, the most significant being our poorly-funded education system.
The story this week on KSL TV about teachers having to work 25 hours a week at a
second job just to make ends meet and about how few students now want to become
teachers should be a wake-up call for the legislature. We need to start paying
teachers what they are worth and stop nickel-and-diming the educational system.
We are an embarrassment to the country, considering how strong our economy is.
Overwhelmingly, voters have said they would be willing to pay more for
education. Listen up, legislators, or retire, so that others who will listen to
their constituents can be elected.
Other states have higher income tax rates, better funded schools, and healthy
economies."Americans for Prosperity," a far-right business
lobbying group, has no problem seeing huge amounts of our tax dollars go to
subsidize the coal, oil and gas industries, and they never make a peep when the
subject is sending billions of tax dollars blindly into the Pentagon. It's time for Utahns to pay attention to the condition of our schools,
and not the spin coming from far-right lobbyists.