My view: Income tax hike would kill jobs

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  • george of the jungle goshen, UT
    Feb. 20, 2017 5:43 p.m.

    How many times do ya have to take out the play grown and replace it with an other one. How many foreclosure homes and reposed car's are there out there. Then to think about insurances that is going up you are forced to have, inflation is taxing. Tax money goes up as price of the item's.

  • Orem Parent Orem, UT
    Feb. 19, 2017 11:41 a.m.

    Anybody that thinks more money won't make a huge difference in our education system really has no clue.

    I love when people say "throw more money". They say it like it actually means something. Our education system has had to beg and scrape for every dime. I would love to see the legislature actually throw some money towards our kids instead of their pet projects.

    Sad that in a state that is supposed to have a high priority on families and children, we are the worst and supporting that claim.

    Meanwhile we have 4,000 sq/ft million dollar homes going up all over the state. Kids are constantly checked out of school to go to disneyland or hawaii in the middle of a semester. Two new cars in each garage. Yet we can't pay for our schools.

    Sad.

  • Steve Cottrell Centerville, UT
    Feb. 18, 2017 10:07 a.m.

    To JoeCapitalist2 - Orem, UT

    One of the problems with firing those who you designate as " bad teachers" is that there are not enough applicants out there to replace them.

    Twenty five years ago, the number of qualified applicants to teach secondary mathematics was far less than the number of openings. There are now only about 1/3 as many applicants for these jobs as there were then. Our teacher training programs are not able to attract enough students to fill the need in many critical areas.

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    Feb. 17, 2017 5:21 p.m.

    JoeCapitalist2, Where are all these bad teachers who are sucking up the money that should go to the good ones? Would you please identify them for us? You'll have to move fast because, bad or good, they don't stay very long.

    We do know that Utah teachers are jumping ship fast. It's becoming a critical problem. High achieving college grads don't go into teaching. The people who do go into it abandon it in droves. It's a miserable, thankless, overwhelming, low-paying job that gets pressure from all sides and no respect--especially from our busybody, meddling legislature.

    @Redshirt, 60% of ed funds go to operations (i.e. salaries) and 40% to facilities--i.e., to keep the walls up and the wind out. A minuscule percentage goes to administration. So if you're upset that only 60% goes to teacher salaries, are you suggesting we do without walls and hold class out in the rain?

  • JoeCapitalist2 Orem, UT
    Feb. 17, 2017 3:56 p.m.

    UtahBlueDevil: "If you want quality teachers - you gotta pay them."

    While I agree that higher pay (in any profession) will help attract more qualified applicants; some people seem to think that if you just pay a failing teacher more money that they will somehow teach better.

    If we are going to throw more money at education, we need to make sure that it makes it possible to REPLACE poor teachers with better ones. If policies are in place that make it virtually impossible to get rid of a bad teacher even when a more qualified one wants the job, then it is just throwing good money after bad.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Feb. 17, 2017 3:25 p.m.

    The other points that are being debated here are also just side shows. Utah does have a robust economy "right now". It's tax policy hasn't really changed all that much over the last 40 years - and yet it's economy has swung up and down with other events.

    High or low taxes are not indicators of high growth or potential. California has high taxes, high incomes, and high growth. Other states like Kansas have low taxes, and low growth. It matters, and yet it doesn't. Places like Boston, New York City, Seattle, and San Francisco all high cost strutures - and yet are very healthy cities.

    Likewise about school funding. While it is true money doesn't have a high corollary to student success - number of kids on food assistance does - to say that Utah doesn't have an issue attracting and retaining teachers would be an understatement. If you want quality teachers - you gotta pay them. There, the corollaries​ are real clear.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Feb. 17, 2017 2:02 p.m.

    "Businesses and workers have flocked to the state, which created 49,500 new jobs in 2016. Unemployment is falling and wages are rising."

    Just stop. Utah's growth is not from people moving from outside the state to Utah, but from organic growth by means of larger than average family sizes. Its not a good, nor a bad thing... its just a thing.

    But to claim people are flocking to Utah is just false. In fact per the US census, Utah enjoys one of the lowest immigration rates of all states. Lets stick to the facts. There is nothing wrong with building a strong job base for the current and future generations of Utahans.

  • JoeCapitalist2 Orem, UT
    Feb. 17, 2017 9:38 a.m.

    Roland: "The non-partisan Congressional Research Service compiled data on decades of tax rates and economic growth. They found that there is zero correlation between the two."

    If that were really true, then a 0% tax rate (or a 100% tax rate) could be implemented with no impact on the economy. Of course there is a correlation between tax rates and economic growth.

    Who in their right mind would go to work, start a business, or invest if the government got nearly all the rewards while taking none of the risks. Tax rates have always been a balancing act where if they are too high they cut off growth and if they are too low we don't have enough to meet government needs.

    Personally, I think we would have great economic growth and plenty of funds to run the government (for the things it is actually supposed to do), if we had long term steady tax rates between 15% and 20% (total, not for each category). Instead of with fluctuating rates that go up and down every few years, people could plan for the long term.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Feb. 17, 2017 6:48 a.m.

    To "Howard Beal "now you lie about what I have said?

    Can you justify throwing more money at education?

    Here is the sad thing about education and the massive amounts of money that we spend. If you took small groups of kids, like 6 to 8, and just paid somebody the money that we currently spend per pupil to teach that small group of kids and everybody would be better off than we are in our current situation. When you look at cities like DC or NY, you would only need 2 to 4 kids per teacher.

    Do you even know that only 60% of the money that the state allocates for education actually makes it to the classroom? The other 40% is siphoned off for non-teaching purposes. So, if you want to raise teacher salaries by $1000/year it would take at least $1700.

    So tell us, if we raise taxes for education, how will that money get spent? (I expect an answer to be more than just "education") If you don't know, then we shouldn't raise taxes.

  • Howard Beal Provo, UT
    Feb. 16, 2017 10:16 p.m.

    You're right redshirt. I think we should ask teachers to actually pay for the privilege to teach our children and I think the learning outcomes of our students. You're truly on to something...

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Feb. 16, 2017 3:31 p.m.

    To "Blue" you missed the point. There is NO connection between spending on education and outcomes. For example NY and DC spend the most on education, and have very poor outcomes.

    Tell us why we should spend more when there is absolutely no scientific basis to justify it.

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 16, 2017 12:28 p.m.

    The non-partisan Congressional Research Service compiled data on decades of tax rates and economic growth. They found that there is zero correlation between the two. Republicans suppressed the story because it contradicts what they have been selling us, plus their donor class doesn't like it.

  • JoeCapitalist2 Orem, UT
    Feb. 16, 2017 11:38 a.m.

    Kent: "Utah needs to get rid of the silly flat tax and start requiring those who benefit most from the state's strong economy to pay more for desperately needed programs..."

    A flat tax is a PERCENTAGE of income, not a fixed amount. By definition those who earn more money have to pay more taxes and those who earn less pay less.

    But the 'soak the rich' progressives are not at all satisfied by that. They want everyone to not only pay more as their income rises, but pay a higher percentage too.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Feb. 16, 2017 10:18 a.m.

    The reality is, the premise of this article is absolutely wrong.

  • JakeShewmake St. George, UT
    Feb. 16, 2017 9:46 a.m.

    Evelyn is hoping you won't go and look at her sources. In her article, just click on the "10 spots" link to go to her source. The people of Utah are not as naive as she thinks. Here are the highlights: The headline of the article reads: "Utah Earns a C-Minus on State Report Card, Ranks 32nd in Nation." Nice Spin Evelyn. Glad we are "ten spots higher" but do you think people like getting a C- grade? When your kids bring home C- grades, do you like that? Next quote: "Utah finishes 32nd among the 50 states and the District of Columbia, with an overall score of 72.0 out of 100 points and a grade of C-minus. The nation as a whole posts a grade of C." How would you feel if the public then blamed the C- on you because of your lack of financial support for your kids? Like this: "In School Finance, Utah receives a D-minus and ranks 48th." And then here is the real kicker: "Across the spending indicators, Utah finishes with a letter grade of F compared with a national average of D. Utah ranks 51st in the nation in this area." Evelyn, please come be a teacher and try looking kids in the eye everyday and telling them this is good enough.

  • Kent C. DeForrest Provo, UT
    Feb. 16, 2017 9:04 a.m.

    Utah needs to get rid of the silly flat tax and start requiring those who benefit most from the state's strong economy to pay more for desperately needed programs, the most significant being our poorly-funded education system. The story this week on KSL TV about teachers having to work 25 hours a week at a second job just to make ends meet and about how few students now want to become teachers should be a wake-up call for the legislature. We need to start paying teachers what they are worth and stop nickel-and-diming the educational system. We are an embarrassment to the country, considering how strong our economy is. Overwhelmingly, voters have said they would be willing to pay more for education. Listen up, legislators, or retire, so that others who will listen to their constituents can be elected.

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 16, 2017 7:09 a.m.

    Other states have higher income tax rates, better funded schools, and healthy economies.

    "Americans for Prosperity," a far-right business lobbying group, has no problem seeing huge amounts of our tax dollars go to subsidize the coal, oil and gas industries, and they never make a peep when the subject is sending billions of tax dollars blindly into the Pentagon.

    It's time for Utahns to pay attention to the condition of our schools, and not the spin coming from far-right lobbyists.