Letter: Electoral map advantage

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  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    Jan. 14, 2017 4:11 p.m.

    Hey Brer Rabbit -

    "The liberal democrats that blame the Electoral College and the Russians for Hillary's loss sound just like the "birthers" that claimed for years that Obama was not a "Natural Born Citizen." "

    WRONG

    The two have nothing in common.

    The Birther message is purely a lie.

    On the other hand, the Russians DID interfere in our elections to help Trump win.

    Even Trump said he thinks the Russians hacked into the DNC.

    "I think the Russians did it." - Donald Trump

    "President Barack Obama was born in the United States." - Donald Trump

    See the difference?

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    Jan. 13, 2017 4:42 p.m.

    "Liberal Democrats continue to attempt to delegitimize the results of the recent presidential election . . . "

    Wrong

    Liberals have nothing to do with the fact that that the election was not legitimate.

    And Liberals have nothing to do with the fact that Donald Trump is not the legitimate President of the United States.

    Perhaps you should blame the Russian-Republican coalition for that.

    Putin knows that Republican leadership weakens our nation. That's why he worked to arrange a Republican sweep.

    I wonder how it feels to be allied with our nation's enemies? . . . United against the best interests of America.

    Luckily I will never know. I'm a Democrat.

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 12, 2017 1:43 p.m.

    "One could argue with credibility that he won by an overwhelming majority, which he in fact did."

    No, his electoral vote win was by small (1%) victories in three states (MI WI PA) and FL was also only about a 1.3% gap. He lost the popular vote by a couple million.

    "Take away the votes from California and Trump wins the popular vote as well. "

    About as relevant as saying that if we take away the states that seceded in the Civil War then Hillary crushes him in the popular vote and wins the diminished electoral vote.

  • Brer Rabbit Spanish Fork, UT
    Jan. 12, 2017 11:33 a.m.

    The liberal democrats that blame the Electoral College and the Russians for Hillary's loss sound just like the "birthers" that claimed for years that Obama was not a "Natural Born Citizen." Liberal Democrats gave no credibility to the birthers, and so now their claims that the Electoral College and the Russians caused their loss deserves no credibility.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Jan. 11, 2017 11:17 p.m.

    In mid October the Democrats and their media were loving the electorial college and now they hate it. I wonder why???

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Jan. 11, 2017 9:25 p.m.

    Hahahaha - You're only making the case for doing away with the electoral college. Trump did win more states than Obama but also got 3,000,000 less votes than his challenger which illustrates that states with small populations have more influence on the election. In other words fewer voters have more influence than a majority of voters. I know you are happy that Tweeter Supreme won the election but can you really say that is fair?

  • UtahBlueDevil Lehi Ut & Durham, NC
    Jan. 11, 2017 9:17 p.m.

    Pure Baloney. Good grief, let it go. Trump will be President next week. Fortunately most Americans can tell the difference between Hillary and Obama, nor do they believe all Democrats nor all Republicans are little clones of one another.

    I really wish we would move on and quit trying to over simplify our world into two nicely divided camps of us versus them. Trump beat the Clintons - few Americans wanted to go through yet another "Clinton" administration.

  • Utefan60 Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 11, 2017 5:51 p.m.

    There is a new word is emerging in the Trump era. It is called "gas-lighting". It means that no matter how much truth is shown about Trump, even his own words and actions, there is blatant denial that these things were said or actions done. Kellyanne Conway is a prime example of this type of dishonesty. The mocking of the disabled reporter is now being gas-lighted by the Trump group and his supporters. They claim this never happened????? Are we really that dumb as citizens? Yet we all know that there is a video of that horrible action.

    We all know what he has said, but a narcissist will then deny he said or did what we all saw. . This type of gas-lighting is going on in the Trump camp and is supported by the uneducated Trump supporters who really do know in their minds that this is true, but use rationalization to say it really didn't happen. This can cause a mental disorder called Cognitive Dissonance. That is when the truth is right there, but mentally the individual can't accept it. So they twist facts in their mind to match their preconceived realities. Trump is being held to the fire by his own party, not just the Democrats.

  • Howard Beal Provo, UT
    Jan. 11, 2017 5:49 p.m.

    I was thinking decline too when I notice the Dow close to 20,000 and gas prices below two bucks. Yes, I remember the good old days in 2008 when my 401K instantly became a 200.5K and paying $4 plus at the pump. Maybe The Donald can bring those back, it would be awesome to not have this sort of decline happening...

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Jan. 11, 2017 2:13 p.m.

    Nonsense.

  • HaHaHaHa Othello, WA
    Jan. 11, 2017 2:02 p.m.

    The election results were a true reflection of what everyone already knew. Mrs. bill was a vapid candidate who had nothing to offer except the same old warmed over, big steaming pile of government worship and dependency. Not to mention that she is an evil human being with lots of baggage in the lack of morals department. Trump won well over 300 electoral college votes, just as the self absorbed bho did in 2012. Trump won 5 more states then bho did in 2012. Bho and supporters considered that win in 2012 a landslide, so the way I see it, Trump could do the same for 2016. You can cook the numbers any way you want. The fact is NY and California provided the margin for mrs. bills popular vote count. Trump didn't spend any resources in those 2 states, because he knew is wasn't just about the popular vote.

  • nonceleb Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 11, 2017 1:04 p.m.

    What decline? You use this word as meaningless, unsubstantiated, generalized rhetoric. Have any specifics? Do you mean decline in teen pregnancies, abortions, violent crime rates, unemployment, federal deficits, government spending growth, the uninsured, gas prices since mid-2009, when Obama could actually start implementing his policies? Terrible!

  • Yar Springville, UT
    Jan. 11, 2017 12:29 p.m.

    You know, it would be nice if everyone governed as a team rather than have political parties battling against each other, constantly. But I guess we'll have to wait for quite a while before that can happen. I mean, after all, you can't force people to believe the same things as you (at least not without causing malice).

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Jan. 11, 2017 11:49 a.m.

    @ JoeCapitalist2, free press? Trump was the master of free press. What are you talking about?

  • JoeCapitalist2 Orem, UT
    Jan. 11, 2017 11:30 a.m.

    Happy Valley Heretic: "Well lets investigate at a tenth of the effort they investigated Hillary..."

    I see your point. After all the press gave Donald Trump a free pass like it did to Obama. During the campaign we never heard anything about his tweets, his controversial positions, or his gaffes at the podium. They completely white-washed anything controversial about Trump on the nightly news and in the newspapers. Voters were left completely in the dark about all the flaws that the left saw in Trump.

    Is that what you are saying?

  • Edgar Samaria, ID
    Jan. 11, 2017 11:00 a.m.

    "Take away the votes from California and Trump wins the popular vote as well."??? Take away the 80,000 votes that combined in three states where he won by a surprise (Pennsylvania - 22,000, Michigan - 10,700 and Wisconsin - 49,000) and Trump loses the election. That's 80,000 of 139,000,000 or .05 of 1% of the votes, that put Donald Trump over the top.

    There are just two things I'd like to say - 1. He didn't win a landside as he claims and 2. of all the things those who oppose Trump have said about him, no one has claimed he wasn't a citizen of this nation.

    The revelations that seem to coming forth every day as we inch closer to the inauguration are getting interesting.

  • Cora Smith BOUNTIFUL, UT
    Jan. 11, 2017 10:44 a.m.

    Republican supporters believe in party over country. Even if they support a proven corrupt and immoral person.
    If it's so important for voting middle class Americans to see Trumps greatness and the excellent way the Republicans have taken care of the working class citizens, then it should be easy to list the actions taken by the Republicans that have lasted for years or decades helping the middle class and it's workers.
    What exactly are they?
    Anti affordable healthcare?
    Anti unions?
    Anti minimum wage raises?
    Anti public education?
    Anti Planned Parenthood support which supports care for the poor women?
    Anti Obama Jobs bill which would have employed millions and sparked the economy?
    Need I go on?
    Again, what does the Republicans and Trump offer the little people?

  • Kent C. DeForrest Provo, UT
    Jan. 11, 2017 10:34 a.m.

    "A corrupt career politician has born the wrath of the American electorate."

    Ben, Ben, Ben, you've been drinking the far-right Kool-Aid for too long. Hillary has been vilified by the right for so long, and yet what have they come up with. The big issue for this go-around was her email server. The Russians made sure it stayed front and center. But in the end, what was the result? As usual, nothing. She is not a crook. She has never been found guilty of anything. But when almost half the country take innuendo and accusation as fact, well, it's an uphill battle.

    Any way you slice it, this election was stolen. Clinton lost the electoral college, but won the popular vote by about 2.9 million. She lost largely because of foreign tampering, the FBI director's outrageous meddling, and the fact that many Americans would rather believe outright lies than facts and innuendo rather than common sense. If the media had made this election about the issues instead of rumor and accusation, it would have been a landslide. But it is what it is, and America is about to find out what four years of Trump can do to a prosperous country.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    Jan. 11, 2017 10:10 a.m.

    JoeCapitalist2 said: "Both candidates knew the rules going into the election. Trump won according to the rules. "

    Well lets investigate at a tenth of the effort they investigated Hillary and we'll see if he cheated, but it's not looking like he played by the rules.

  • The Educator South Jordan, UT
    Jan. 11, 2017 9:44 a.m.

    More baseless fact free fake news from the right wing.

    With letters like these, who needs divisive characters like Putin or Trump?

    Repubs, here it is 2 months after the election. When are you going to attempt to unify this country? Where's the leadership? Your letters all seem to be the same, "Neener neener neener!"

    When's the campaign going to end and the leadership begin?

    Get Educated

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Jan. 11, 2017 9:41 a.m.

    @ JoeCapitalist2 , what seems to be lost on you is that it isn't the left, or liberals, or Democrats who raise the issue here. It's one of your own. I think most people are in fact moving on, to address a President who may have been compromised and blackmailed, and what we do with that now. So will you move on and do the right thing for America, advocating a thorough and honest investigation into the matter? After all, Republicans have Mike Pence in their back pocket if Trump goes down.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Jan. 11, 2017 9:35 a.m.

    Ben, with everything that's been said, I don't think that campaign rhetoric against Clinton, none of which has gone anywhere except pushing her into a loss, compares to the corruption of and surrounding Trump. Trump is making Nixon and his team look like choirboys.

    I still don't get why Trump supporters say stuff like "without California Trump would have won the popular vote." Could we not say the same - "without the deep South, Clinton would have won the Electoral College"? Isn't California part of the United States? And is a California vote less valuable than a vote from any other state? Arguments like the ones you make are nonsense.

  • JoeCapitalist2 Orem, UT
    Jan. 11, 2017 9:01 a.m.

    Both candidates knew the rules going into the election. Trump won according to the rules. Game over. All the Monday quarterbacks want to debate whether the outcome would or would not be different if the rules had been different. Who knows who would have won the popular vote if both candidates had campaigned based on the winner being determined by that. It is useless to keep rehashing that argument.

    Conservatives are more than willing to let the subject drop, but we won so that is what we want. It is the Democrats that are constantly pointing out over and over again that 'Trump didn't win the popular vote' in an effort to undermine his presidency. As long as that continues, I don't think the issue will die.

  • Shaun Sandy, UT
    Jan. 11, 2017 8:48 a.m.

    With the writers logic then Bill Clintons victory was a rejection of Reagan and bush seniors policy's and Obamas victories were a rejection of bush and Romney policy's.

    The truth is the democrats lost because the party insisted Clinton should be the nominee even though she had a lot of baggage.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Jan. 11, 2017 8:42 a.m.

    It's not just liberal democrats who point out the flaws in trump's claim of a landslide. Conservative democrats do, too. I imagine a number of people in other pigeon holes of your accusation do, too.
    Yes, within our current system trump 'won'. He did not win the raw vote, however. And even in terms of the electoral college, his performance is towards the bottom of the ranking of all US presidential elections. One cannot argue anything 'overwhelming' about it.
    The electoral college system needs to be dismantled because it is anti democratic. In this, and all other, elections. There are times we're 50 states and times we're 300 ish million people. We are people when we vote for the president. We do not 'take away' California; they're no less American than we are.
    Let's fix the system.

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    Jan. 11, 2017 8:35 a.m.

    If you counted only the votes from SLC and not the rest of the state, since they don't contribute as much economically, than Clinton wins our 6 electoral votes. See how silly and disingenuous that sounds.
    More people in this country wanted "a 3rd term" of Obama to put it in your terms. Trump won the electoral college, so he's POTUS. Clinton won the popular vote so she's retired. Let's move on to the investigations and put the election behind us.

  • JLindow St George, UT
    Jan. 11, 2017 8:27 a.m.

    Trump won. Barely. Technically. With the assistance of a hostile foreign power and an FBI director violating the Hatch Act.

    I can understand why Trump and his supporters prefer to point out the Electoral College difference or invent fictions about millions of illegally cast votes.

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 11, 2017 8:09 a.m.

    "Donald Trump was elected to prevent a further decline of the America that most of us know and love. "

    I had no idea there could be such a radically different definition of "decline" as offered by this writer.

    Since 2009 the changes in our economy, unemployment rate, uninsured rate, rate of inflation in healthcare costs, rate of growth of the national debt, stock market, international stature, all have all moved in directions that indicate anything but "decline."

    If your idea of "decline" is improved equal treatment under the law for all citizens, then yes, you're probably not going to be happy.

  • Mark B Eureka, CA
    Jan. 11, 2017 7:47 a.m.

    Ben's attempt to turn Trump's win into a a voting majority as well as an electoral vote win is a little like praising Custer for his wise leadership - except for that little scuffle at the Little Big Horn. You can't reach a fair conclusion by simply leaving out California.

  • Karen R. Houston, TX
    Jan. 11, 2017 7:25 a.m.

    Mr. Booth, if there is an effort to delegitimize Trump's presidency, the evidence suggests that Trump's behavior - now and before the election - is enabling it.

    Re: "Take away the votes from California and Trump wins the popular vote as well."

    This argument really needs to be tabled. It's saying, "Take away votes of certain Americans and my guy wins the popular vote too!" Okay. Take away the votes of Trump voters in red states and Hillary wins the EC vote too.

    That's how meaningless this argument is.

  • Kalindra Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 11, 2017 7:23 a.m.

    The author accuses Democrats of trying to delegitimization the election but then wants to discount the votes of an entire state so he can claim his candidate has a mandate.

    If the only way you can claim a mandate is by discounting over 8 million votes, you don't really have a mandate nor a majority of the vote.

  • Kalindra Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 11, 2017 7:23 a.m.

    The author accuses Democrats of trying to delegitimization the election but then wants to discount the votes of an entire state so he can claim his candidate has a mandate.

    If the only way you can claim a mandate is by discounting over 8 million votes, you don't really have a mandate nor a majority of the vote.

  • embarrassed Utahn! Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 11, 2017 6:31 a.m.

    The facts do not indicate a decline over the past 8 years, but that doesn't stop people from using baseless-factless-and tactless opinions to justify what has happened.

    Tell us how great The Donald is doing after 2017 with some facts please!

  • Impartial7 DRAPER, UT
    Jan. 11, 2017 6:10 a.m.

    "Donald Trump was elected to prevent a further decline of the America that most of us know and love. "

    Yeah- because Bush & Cheney left the country in such great shape for President Obama.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Jan. 11, 2017 5:28 a.m.

    "One could argue with credibility that he won by an overwhelming majority, which he in fact did. Take away the votes from California and Trump wins the popular vote as well"

    No, you cant.

    And I love the last line basically saying "So, if you totally ignore a state that has over 12% of the total US population...."

    Regardless. Trump won the election. We use the electoral college. Lets move on and hope he is a great president.