carman:Good stuff and very doable. States with teacher shortages
and constant turnover like Alaska have used incentives such as these to get
teachers to come to their states, some even expanded for signing bonuses and
Looks like the article could be summarized as: "we previously reduced taxes,
and now we don't have enough money for our schools, among other
things." Funny how that works.
As a construction project manager and site superintendent I would often have sub
contractors and employees come up to me and point out problems I already knew
about. I would (politely) point out that it didn't take a rocket scientist
to find problems, but that I had hired them to be problem solvers. It seems to
me that we have a lot of "problem finders" in education, but no problem
solvers.Here's a thought: How about we hire teachers who teach
with real enthusiasm for their subjects, make all administrators actually teach
classes, let upper class students help teach underclass students, hold under
achievers back until they (and their parents) take learning seriously, stop
building Taj Mahal palaces for schools, get rid of the bottom 20% of teachers,
and reward the top performing teachers, go to year around schools (like all
other industrialized countries) and especially hold administrators accountable
for the funding they already receive. If administrators can't stay within
budget, fire them and get "problem solvers" who can. But for crying out
loud, STOP with the notion that throwing OUR money around will solve ANY
As I read the comments, some that stood out were the blaming the education
problem on big families. As a father of a big family (5 children), my children
were raised mostly in states (Texas and Alaska) that had no state income taxes.
Now that I am in Utah, and my children had all grown up and start their own
families, I look back and wonder if I have made any contribution to society by
having those five children. As a starter, all my five children graduated from
BYU in Provo. They now all have good jobs making their contribution to society.
As my children and their spouses are working, and to include myself and my
wife as taxpayers, my family alone is providing 11 productive taxpayers.
Therefore, I will not be among those blaming big families, for I see them
bailing us out in the future. I do not believe revenue is the problem. Liberals
have a stranglehold on our education system we will never have enough money for
education. Why not try something new? Utilize all resources available. With
advance in technology, why not expand online classes and reduce brick and mortar
schools. The last few years of spelling bees have been won by home schoolers.
Not enough of their attention that they would appropriately fund education. "Oh but it's our number one priority.""Oh but
we're dedicating more money that ever to Education." "oh....All true and due to growth and more children entering
school all too little too late. "Oh but a tax increase on
business to fund education, may be bad for business, and we all know that here
in ewwtah we are business friendly."We've got to get
funding from somewhere, seems a lottery and legalized cannabis are non starters.
So let's get it done, classes are not shrinking and neither are birthrates.
I can assure you that from my point of view the tax increase isn't needed
nearly as much as a cut back on he number of school administrators at the top
pay level. In Carbon County we have more administrators that we need...cutting
back on their numbers would free up much needed money to spend per student and
more money for teachers. Just something to consider.
@Ranch: What's so wonderful about public schools? The private sector is
much better at providing most goods and services (defense, police, and courts
excluded) so why would education be an exception? I'm not opposed to public
funding because in many ways education is a public good, but government is not
good at providing products and services. We will get better outcomes and lower
costs with a private system, not to mention choices.
To JMHO:"Nebsy has a simple solution--carman wants to make it
complicated."It's not at all complicated. Computers can
handle these simple calculations with ease. On a teachers tax doc, the school
district reports income and qualified teaching years. In your tax software, you
answer a couple of questions: 1) A yes/no question of: "Are you a
qualified teacher as defined by Utah State Law?" 2) "How much
education qualified income did you have in the past tax year?", and 3) How
many qualified years of service do you have?The specifics could be
outlined in a state bill that defines the appropriate law. All of this data
could be recorded on the W-2 form that teachers get from their
employer/district. The computer does all the work after answering a couple of
simple questions. Easy peasy...and the incentives help us hire and retain great
The Legislature has starved Public Education for years. Its about time PE is
funded sufficiently that teachers can make enough to raise a family without
having to take on two or more other jobs. We have a teacher shortage because
the Legislature makes it intolerable to be a teachers.
@toosmartforyou;"Those families will buy more cars, gasoline,
clothes, groceries, houses, furniture etc, too, in the long haul."--- So, essentially you're saying they're going to be consuming more
resources and polluting the planet even further. Got it.@Invisible
Hand;I am paying taxes to support the PUBLIC school system, not the
private schools. If you want to send your kids to a private school, pay for it
yourself. No vouchers.misanthrope says:"Leftists
love to vote other people's money out of their pockets."---
Yet you "rightists" are refusing to cap the child deduction to 2 kids
and you have more kids to take money out of the "leftist's
pockets". How ironic of you.@SME;"...as long as
my children didn't have to pay for his retirement."--- Was
your co-worker paying into the SS system? I'm betting he was.
MANY good ideas here (besides raising taxes).I have to wonder
when/if Trump begins to enforce immigration laws, how much class sizes will
drop?In my area they will drop significantly.
Nebsy has a simple solution--carman wants to make it complicated. All educators
(even administrators) should be tax exempt IF...100% of income tax really goes
to education.Otherwise you are just throwing millions of dollars
away...just like there is no such thing as a perpetual motion machine because
some of the energy is lost...the money is lost in the system.The answer is
simple, because of changes that Gov. Bangerter approved and signed, 100% does
not really go to education.As for arguing about accountability and
too much money already in the schools...really...even if (as stated above)
schools are basically daycares...compare daycare costs to education costs. I
think educators would get a raise.
I am surprised at all of the comments railing against any new taxes for schools.
While I agree that there are probably better revenue streams than raising the
income tax, I am stunned at the myopic fixation on taxes as always a bad thing.
Its a fact that we spend less per pupil than any other state in the
Union. This directly refutes any argument that "we have a spending
problem." No, not in this case. If we have a "spending problem,"
then it sits in the column of not spending enough. Hence, the initiative.
To all those who are unhappy paying for the education of someone else's
children:I had this discussion with a co-worker a number of years
ago. I said I was OK with him not paying for my children's education (he
did not have children), as long as my children didn't have to pay for his
Leftists love to vote other people's money out of their pockets. Govt
doesn't have a revenue problem they have a spending problem. The biggest
problem with govt. education (aside from the 'govt.' part) is
'experts' trying to reinvent the wheel instead of sticking with the
tried-and-true methods of classic education.
Read my lips.....NO new tax hikes.
Have our legislators ever looked at states that have NO income tax? How do they
do it? Is there something they could learn from looking at how those states
manage without income tax?What about it legislators? Got a response?
How about shifting money from the hundreds of administrators that make over
$120,000/year to the teachers?Hoe about shifting money from
non/education uses to education.Taxes keep going up, up, up.
Let's reallocate rather than tax. No wonder we don't save money for
To Nebsy:I actually like the idea of granting a tax exemption to
teachers, but would propose a couple of modifications:1) The
exemption goes to classroom professionals only, not administrators.2) The
exemption is capped at $90,000/year, indexed for inflation. Any income above
this amount would be taxed at ordinary rates.3) The exemption is phased-in
over 30 years. Every year you teach in the State of Utah, an additional
$3,000/year of your income, indexed for inflation, is tax-free. This incentive
would encourage teachers to stay in the classroom and not migrate to
administrative rolls at the school or district level.These proposals
would make teaching much more lucrative, would
Best way to free up a lot of money is to get rid of all the sports programs and
focus on education. Consolidate districts and reduce high salaries to
administrators. The problems would be solved and we might even get some of our
hard earned money back.
The public education system is broken, like all other government programs. You
can't fix a problem with the same minds that created them. Asking elected
officials to fix such issues is like asking an alcoholic to sober up in a liquor
It is not really fair to ask people who no children or very few children to pay
more when there are parents who have lots of children who pay less because they
get more exemptions.The first step is to reduce exemptions for
Simple idea to improve education in this state... It's outside the box so
some might scoff. Simply provide a benefit to teachers that choose to teach
here. Income from education tax exempt. No state taxes for educators. It
would have an immediate effect on the teacher turnover in this state. It would
force efficiency out of the system. An immediate 6% pay raise that costs the
state nothing (net). It's simply dollars that the state taxes educators
that go right back to paying them (in an inefficient way).Do we have any
state lawmakers brave enough to do it? Examine the argument against this:
'No we have to tax educators! So, we can pay them." According to the
state, every dollar of state income tax is spent on education. Why not leave it
with the educators to begin with? The only answer I can logically come up
with.... the inefficiency of the system allows this money to be pilfered by
bureaucracy.If you'd like career educators that are intelligent to
recognize this benefit and teach your children...... maybe just consider it.
Maybe 'like' this and send a message to your state lawmakers.
You've got to love the hypocrisy and genius of our legislature and
governor. They can find money for personal projects and grand schemes. They can
tax our income, property, purchases (in state and out), travel, and if they
could figure out a way, even the very air that we breath. Then they feign
surprise when tax payers rise up and demand funding for education. The folks on
capital hill get everything they wanted -- pet projects AND education funding.
And all funded by a nice tax hike they don't have to vote for.
DN subscriber, "never sign a ballot initiative petition". Why not? It
is the only way to get the legislators to even remotely pay attention.
Having Superintendents making over $250k/year is insane. Utah schools have
followed the trend nationally to have Superintendents who make $300k+/year. We
simply don't need to pay administrators this much to have good people in
these positions. And we could get by with far fewer $150-300K/year
administrators in the district offices. Put the money into a good Principal
(most make $125-175K/yr) and good teachers. Cut back on the expensive
administrative positions.As for taxes, the singe best thing we could
do is to have parents pay for their student's books. There could be
partial waivers based on income levels (or a state level tax credit of the same
amount based on income). This would 1) Get books into our students hands (my
5A school on the Wasatch front doesn't enough have math, biology or physics
books for students to each have one, and they see no reason for it. It's
no surprise that we have barely average ACT scores despite extremely favorable
demographics!), 2) It would shift costs of large families slightly back in the
direction of the family. Utah citizens seem to value self-sufficiency. This
would be a great place to start.
Public School is Public Day Care. I know I was a Public School teacher.There is more to life than School. Schools have too much money now.Most buildings are vacant or un-used 45% of the time. There is much
wastein Education its not funny.Finally, technology has
reduced the need for brick and mortar schools. If anything, funding should
A report released by the U.S. Census Bureau Tuesday ranked the state's 2013
per-student spending — $6,555 a year — at the bottom of the heap for
U.S. states.We don't need more taxes! The State of Utah wastes
so much money.
Initiatives are too often schemes pushed by special interest groups who spend
big bucks on professional paid signature gatherers. They get signatures by
misrepresenting what the initiatives will actually do."Sign here if
you want your kids to get a better education" will snooker in moms headed to
the grocery store.If they told the truth "Sign here to raise
your taxes so government bureaucrats will get paid more and we can build
luxurious new schools" theyw ould get very few signatures.Never
sign a ballot initiative petition!Tell your legislators to trip wasteful
spending and cut the bureaucracy in Utah education (not teachers)!
I will vote for more money for schools when the money follows the child in the
form of a voucher. Until then there is no market discipline and the money is
Utah's future rests in the hands of its students. It's just silly to
believe that continuing to underfund education will lead to a vibrant, stable
economic future. The economic outlook impacts everyone, not just those with
large families, and so everyone should share in the responsibility to fund a
future-focused, innovative, results-oriented education system. (And it's
not about single-subject test scores. It's about communication, creativity,
collaboration and the application of knowledge to unpredictable situations and
entrepreneurship.) Let's build the best education system in the world!
As a military retiree and on social security, I. Have received a grand total of
$10 a month increase over the past 4 years. Yet my taxes have gone up over $118
a month during the same time period. Now your going to bleed me even more for
schools. Increases in Property taxes, income taxes, sales taxes, utility taxes,
give us a break, find the $ from another source, quit stealing money from my
pockets. I left Taxifornia to get away from this, it looks like it followed me
here. I guess I may have to move to Wyoming.
Those who have large families have many wage earners that contribute income
taxes a few years down the road when they are working for a living. Don't
be so short-sighted as to think large families don't eventually pay their
share. That is not being freeloaders, it is paying more into the future than
small families. Those families will buy more cars, gasoline, clothes,
groceries, houses, furniture etc, too, in the long haul.They need to
get a new argument about "per pupil funding" as that is over 50 years
old and meaningless. How about state personal incomes taxes----gosh, we're
#1 in the country using all of it (100% - every penny) for education but you
never hear that statistic, do you?Ever hear a government employee
such as an educator thank the taxpayer for paying their wages and benefits?
Don't hold your breath........
Why is government's solution to every problem "throw more money at
it." Let's try trimming the fat. I live in a community where they
built a $75 million 3-a high school. There are nearly as many district office
employees as there are high school teachers. Throwing more money around
isn't the solution.
We shouldn't tax people for having children. Educated people should have
large families. Those children will make an important contribution to
society.I'm in favor of being taxed to improve education
funding if the taxes are earmarked to raise teacher salaries and reduce class
Limit the child tax credit credit This would make a big dent. Larger families
should pay there fair share and not burden the system.
If you raise my taxes I have less to spend. When I spend less that means someone
else earns less so their taxes go down. So then you raise taxes again and I
spend less again and the cycle continues.There is a point where
taxes for all levels of government exceed the ability of the economy to carry
the burden. I believe we are past that point. A leaking engine can lose a
certain amount of oil but if the level goes too low the machine will be damaged
and need repair. Our economy has been damaged by over-taxation and needs
repair.We need to be able to say to government that we are giving
enough and expect them to live within a budget. Our "leaders" have a
never-ending need to spend money to buy votes and build their legacies. It is
time to say "enough is enough".And no, it's not
"for the children". It's for the administrators and the
construction of excessively elaborate edifices.
* Let parents pay their fair share. A small affordable tuition.*
Cutting worthless programs is a good way to fund schools.* Let
parents feed their children. Not schools.Quit redistributing the
hard earned money of working Americans.
The waste in government, including education, is scandalous and needs to stop.
When Governor Matheson first became governor, he inherited the first ONE billion
dollar state budget. Utah had a population at the time of between 1.5 and 2
million people. Today our population just topped 3 million (about double) while
our state budget is over $16,000,000,000.00 (that's 16 BILLION dollars, and
yet they want more? Back when Matheson was governor there was very little
homeless. Today we have an epidemic of homelessness. Welfare fraud in Hilldale
and other polygamous communities is only the tip of the iceberg, and yet the
only "solution" our leaders come up with over and over again is to raise
taxes. I say enough is enough. Stop whining about problems and start solving
them. After all, that is your job.I bet this doesn't get
posted, but it should.
Quit being freeloaders and making others paying for your kids education. Head
tax and no child deductions after 2 kids. For a State that touts "personal
responsibility" they sure don't apply it to paying for their kids
There shouldn't be a tax increase until the legislature is sure that
everyone is paying their fair share of taxes now. Also, parents that choose to
have larger families should pay more of their share of taxes. You can't put
it all on young people trying to pay off student loans, or single people, or the