The comments that actually make it through the Deseret News censors have indeed
been very kind. I certainly don't mean to minimize how good this is - but
lets also not have our head in the sand and pretend that is representative of
all comments being made. If one read just the comments allowed by
the Deseret News in these Max Hall stories one would think world peace has been
solved and Max was 100% wrong in his comments. But if one read through the
comments on the SL Tribune or facebook, the opposite would seem to be true.
@Ted, as Utah fan I have to agree with you. Its been refreshing to see kindness
on these boards for a change. Its likewise pretty sickening to read what is
being said of him in other forums.
This whole situation has caused me to reflect on my own behavior as a BYU fan. I
will admit that I have, on more than one occasion, chuckled when a current or
former Ute player was caught doing something illegal, and I am ashamed of that
now. A stupid sports rivalry should never cause one human being to find
satisfaction or amusement from the personal struggles of another human being. I
know this is something the Savior would NEVER do or condone, and I hope this
will be an opportunity for people, regardless of fan affiliation, to remember to
show more class as many have done in this situation. Maybe that would be
something positive that could come out of this sad situation. My prayers are
with Max Hall and his family.
Max, most importantly for yourself, but also for your family, friends,
neighbors, community,and football fans everywhere - get help. This not likely
something you can do on your own. Good luck overcoming those demons.
@Ted H.Eh, I'm part of a Ute fan group on facebook and the comments
there were around 2/3 kind, 1/6 completely unkind and 1/6 had both a kind remark
and cheap shot.The Tribune on the other hand...yeah I'm not
sorting through that mess.
Are we going to have as many of these "Max Hall" articles as we do the
"Jake Heaps" articles because at some point this is going to be
overkill. Wait a minute. We've reached that point already. Chris B"I've been to byu stadium and experienced the
worst fan behavior I've seen in my life, and I've been to half a dozen
NFL stadiums and over 15 college football stadiums."So have I
and the two worst fan behavior I've been to is in Tucson, AZ
('university' of Arizona) and Salt Lake City ('university'
Regardless of what anyone thinks of Max Hall, we are all fellow children of God
and Max and his family need our prayers and support now more than ever. This
will not only be a defining moment for Max, but for all of us. The time is past
for those things that divide us and we need to stand united as fellow human
beings. How can we expect to be forgiven of our own sins if we don't
forgive others with all our hearts. We are all Max Hall.
Max's misfortune has put the rivalry in perspective. I hope and pray he
gets the help he needs to put this behind him. In a season where,
unfortunately, the Utes and Cougars do not face each other, Go Utes! Go Cougars!
(And especially the Cougars).
I really wish someone would commission an independent study of what actually
goes on during a football game at LES and RES, particularly when BYU and Utah
are playing. It would be refreshing to get a view other than one skewed by the
tinted glasses that fans seem to wear.As for Max, I had a son that
was lucky enough to get help with his addiction. Despite the drugs, he was
level-headed enough to realize he was on the verge of destruction and that it
was time to get help. It cost a lot of heartache and tears as well as a
significant sum of money to get him the help he needed, and in the end it was up
to him to choose what direction he wanted his life to take. Luckily, although
he is still dealing with alcohol and tobacco issues, he has been free from drugs
for several years now - and is gainfully employed.Truly do wish the
same good fortune for Max.
The bigger they are the harder they fall.
Well said by RepresentBlue, all fan bases have their bad apples. Sometimes BYU
fans refuse to believe this about their own, but it is true. I cheer for Utah
and I've seen BYU fans treated poorly at RES. But I've also seen
mixed-fan couples there doing fine and opposite fans shaking hands and chatting.
Some classy fans and some classless fans. The same is going on now with comments
on the Hall situation. Many very classy, take-the-high-road Ute fans pulling for
Max, while others revel in it. I personally wish him the best in his personal
life, but disliked him a lot on the field. You have to separate the two!
lol @ all the byu fans clamoring for peace and understanding, as if this was
alex smith or eric weddle they wouldn't be gloating!!! max or cougar fans
get no pass from me. you wanna run your mouth about how classless other people
are, you better make sure you're a class act yourself!!
Sorry to hear about Max Hall. Drug addiction can be devastating to the user and
those close to him. It is nice to see classy fans on both sides come together
in support of an individual. I have been in Tucson for 25 years and still
follow the Aggies, Cougars and Utes. Watching and reading the childish PAC12
arguments have almost made me anti Utes. However, having said that, my daughter
traveled to Utah last winter to visit relatives and was able to attend the
Arizona v Utah basketball game (very competitive before the tournament). She
had on her Wildcat red and cheered loudly. I am happy to report that the Utah
fans treated her well. She really enjoyed it. I am glad we can recognize the
difference between a game and real life. Without an opponent on the court or
field, there would be no game. We should all treat each other with respect.
Max Hall's arrest has helped BYU fans come around to a notion most of the
rest of us have had for a very long time -- drug abuse is better solved with
treatment than jail.
@Chris BI've been to a lot of other stadiums as well and to say
that BYU fans exhibit the worst really destroys your credibility. I'm sorry
you feel that way but I really doubt you will see beer being poured on visitors
or obscenities being shouted. I'm not saying there's not a minority
out there who can't control themselves, but I know the sections I've
sat in at LES would never even allow that of another fan. They'd be removed
by their own. I certainly would never allow it from a fellow BYU fan. And it certainly doesn't justify hatred or vilification of all fans of a
team when some misbehave. On any side of the fence.For my part, I
enjoy a game a lot more when I chat up visiting fans and learn a little about
their team and appreciate their athletes as well as my own. They're just
student athletes, after all, and working hard to play while going to school - no
small feat. Let's learn to value each other and look for the good.
We'll enjoy sports (and other things) a lot more!!
EighgOhOne:Well here's one BYU fan who wouldn't be gloating if
this were Alex Smith or Eric Weddle. I think the point of the article is that
most fans on either side recognize that football, rivalries, and trash-talking
take a backseat to a person's life and some of the pain that comes with it.
It's pretty presumptuous of you to think BYU fans would respond negatively
if the tables were turned. Like others have said, you'll always have your
classless "bad apples" on either side, but I think most fans in this
rivalry have more perspective than that.
Eightohone-You are proving what Max said is true. Kicking a man
while he is down is the epitome of classless.
By the way I'm quite certain both fan bases are pretty bad compared to
schools outside the state. For some reason in this state a lot of fans treat
opposing fans very poorly. I see this all the time at Utah Jazz games. I once
went to a Jazz game in Phoenix and was treated quite well despite my loud,
borderline obnoxious cheering for the Jazz. That same behavior is met with very
poor treatment at ESA. Not to mention Jazz fans (which are comprised mostly of
BYU and Utah fans also) are very disrespectful to several ex-Jazz players, which
is really uncalled for.
eightohone,What I think is LOL is the ute "fans" who
continue to prove Max right. You don't want to be considered completely
classless - don't be completely classless. Simple as that.
"I really doubt you will see beer being poured on visitors . . ."eastcoastcoug:You've lost your credibility. You've
never seen that at RES because the U doesn't sell beer there and thoroughly
screens fans for such as they enter. Instead, you apparently took Max
Hall's word for it, which, under the circumstances, seems ill-advised.I, too, have seen boorish fan behavior at LES, including repeated
insults and thrown objects. I watched from the stands as Kyle Whittingham's
wife was physically accosted post-game on the field there several years ago.
Neither you nor any other Y fan can claim the moral high ground on fan behavior.
Getting caught up in drugs and the behavior that goes with it is one of those
things that is so awful you don't wish it upon anyone because its effects
are never confined to just the person doing drugs, it affects family, friends
and often some random strangers.Best wishes Max Hall for your
JohnSLC - You've lost all credibility if you're trying to convince
anyone that alcohol has never been inside RES on game day. Even I can admit
that! Whether beer was poured on Max's family I have no idea, but anyone
who wants to believe that alcohol has never gone undetected through RES must
have had their eyes closed for 4 hours straight on game days!
"What I think is LOL is the ute "fans" who continue to prove Max
right. You don't want to be considered completely classless - don't be
completely classless. Simple as that."sports and eight:In many ways this is analagous to a road rage incident, where the driver of
one car, full of his friends, reacts to a percieved slight and communicates his
rage with words and gestures as he swerves ahead, only to break down miles ahead
and is in need of assistance. The 99.9% of Utah fans who did not pour beer
on Hall's family (allegedly) are like the motorists run off the road by
Hall's classless rant and the BYU fans who supported Hall are like his
passengers. Now, naturally, some of the Ute fans will not bother to
offer sympathy or assistance to those who are now stuck, saying "karma"
as they pass by. Yet other Ute fans sympathize and even offer help.Don't you, as Hall's passengers, realize the irony and utter
hypocrisy of castigating the former while begrudgingly acknowledging the latter?
johnny, the truth hurts sometimes. Max has some issues to deal with, but one
thing he's always been is honest. Hopefully he can be honest with himself
and deal with his problems. His honesty is confirmed by looking at the comments
from the bulk of ute "fans" who claimed they weren't what he said
they were to begin with. For many, he hit the nail on the head. Instead of
saying "all" in his original comments he should have just used "the
great majority" or "almost all" and then he would have been more
accurate. No ute fan can claim the moral high ground on this one.
"one thing he's always been is honest."Trevvie:I suspect the good people at BestBuy and Wal-Mart would disagree.
Chris B:In the last 10 years I've never seen it. But then
again, I wasn't sitting by you.
I really feel for his family. I hope he can get the help that he needs.
It looks like the good will of yesterday lasted all of 18 hours. Oh well....
Let's all just agree that football is a passionate sport which sometimes
brings out the worst in people. I've been there myself and I'm not
proud of it, and I've matured. I have lots of friends who went to the U
including several family members. They are great people and great friends, but
it drives me nuts to watch them cheer for Utah when they score on BYU. Or when
they gloat about it after the game. I'm sure my behavior does the same for
them. That doesn't make them bad or classless people, it just proves that
we are passionate about football.One thing I know, we won't
regret being more kind and more civil to each other, but we might regret being
When this story broke with Max's "mug shot" wearing the BYU shirt,
I cringed in anticipation of a title wave of Ute-mockery aimed at Max and BYU --
I must admit, however, I've been pleasantly surprised at the civility and
maturity of the comments from Utah fans. I hope BYU fans would react the same
way. I guess most of us actually do realize that there are things more important
in life than sports and rivalry.To those who are saying that BYU
fans behave worse than other fans -- please. Go to the student section of any
school during a rivalry game and just watch how rivalry, immaturity, and
probably alcohol create an obnoxious circus.
For any Utah fan still upset by something said over four years ago take a line
from Frozen and let it go.
That Ute heart transplant patient a few months ago was very touching and showed
the human side of this rivalry. This story has a similar effect. There are some
Ute fans who are taking shots at Max because of his "hate rant" but most
seem to be staying very positive. Good luck to Max, a lot of people are rooting
@ Sports Are GreatMax's rant was a reflection of himself, not
Utah's fan base/organization. How each individual repsonded to Max being
arrested is a reflection of them, not on Max. Overall, I've been pretty
impressed by the sympathetic response from Utah's fans.
@Chris BBased on what I have observed on these message boards, your
experience at LES is most likely a response that you have brought on yourself.
The constant controversial and demeaning comments, as well as putting down of
all things Mormon, are intended to inflame and insight a reaction. If your
actions are the same at the stadium, you are most likely getting the exact
response you were soliciting. I am assuming that you don't feel the same
vitriol towards other teams, communities, faiths, etc. that you do toward BYU,
so you aren't soliciting an inflamed response. That most likely explains
why you feel that the fans at BYU are worse than all others. I'm sure if you approached the game as a good natured competition between
a group of young men who are learning and developing skills that most will never
use again in their future careers, then you might just find that an afternoon of
football at LES can actually be an enjoyable experience, even for a visitor
(provided you can look past the annoying rendition of "Popcorn
I've had several drug addicted family members. Some have been in recovery
for years, while others have not, and the lives of those around them continue to
be wrongly affected, and don't know that my relationship with some can ever
be repaired. I can't say I feel sorry for Max. The ones I feel sorry for
are his family that have had to suffer consequences of his actions and deserve
better. For that reason alone I hope he can get his act together and overcome
Sorry John, I saw the same event and really, Whittingham's wife was not
"accosted." Someone bumped into her as people were running around the
field. Please don't exaggerate. I've seen boorish behavior at BYU
games but it's always been at refs. I'm not saying that's right,
but I've been to 3 BYU-Utah games at LES and I've never seen anything
but classy behavior. If I saw a BYU fan belittling a Utah fan I would call him
out. I sure hope U of U fans would do the same. Many possibly do, but I see some
here on this site admit that they are embarrassed by comments and behavior
directed at certain people walking to or attending RES. By the way, thanks to so
many classy statements by so many UofU fans. Sometimes these boards skew our
perception of who we are. Fortunately many of my best friends/neigbors are great
people and UofU fans.
JohnInSLC You lost your credibility too - you conveniently forgot to
mention that Kyle Whittingham's wife was physically accosted post-game on
the field there several years ago because she got caught between a BYU fan and
UTE fan who had just stolen his phone (because he was taking pictures of
Whittingham) - the tussle wasn't directed AT her.And I have
witnessed many inebriated people at RES (whether they brought beer or not it is
somewhat irrelevant - they were already drunk) so your explanation of RES
behavior doesn't jive with my experienceYou don't have to
like Hall - Just wish him to get the help he needs and let it go.
Sorry for Max Hall's troubles. A lot of people are right, he should get
treatment. However, he broke the law and that treatment should be behind bars.
@Sports Are GreatWhat Max said was not true. And to paint with that
broad of a brush by you, even now, when we hopefully want to transcend this
rivalry hatred is wallowing back into the gutter. I think that relative to the
rant 5 years ago, that very little of Max said was true. Some in the media
(radio) have almost admired Max for being willing to say how he felt. But how
Max felt was centered around bitter lies he had convinced himself to be true.
Those feelings can become a spiritual cancer to the soul. Haven't we all
experienced this to whatever degree? I will admit myself that I know all to well
what internal justification for negative thinking can do. It's not pretty.
Look, there are fans on both sides who will choose a path of
contention no matter what. But that doesn't make either one of those fan
bases all together classless. I will say that the rivalry does bring out the
worst in many of us, just as drugs can bring out the worst in others. We all
need recovery, or better yet the embracing of the atonement.
Hey, guys. I don't want to brag or anything, but my comment got mentioned
in a news article. Awwww yeah.
Just because I said he broke the law and deserves be behind bars, you guys
didn't print my comment.