No doubt about it.People are paid what they are worth to the
A High School graduate can work at McDonalds for minimum wage.A High
School graduate can work at a call-center for $10-12 plus the ability to raise a
few dollars over a few years if it's a reputable company.I
did.A High School graduate can find work for $15-17, if they are
willing to earn it with hard work.I did.If you're a
single mother, I support you getting a raise for that alone. Anyone else, and
it's less likely that you have a legit reason. Possible, but less
likely.And technically single mom can still work at the call center
or somewhere else.So what's the problem?The
"false ideas of entitled & equality" generation (aka liberal young
people who still haven't grown up).
MountainmanSee, that's just the mentality of Greed. Nothing is
ever enough; one cannot be happy with his own success unless he knows he
dominates his neighbors and competitors and ultimately the market. In-N-Out is specifically just as big as it wants to be. It is CONTENT with
its level of profit and with its company size. That is how it pays its people
more while charging its customers less and using more expensive, tastier
ingredients and employing many people.
Mountman:Obviously you know little about professional sports. The
players are employees in every sense of the word. They can be paid well or say
in the NFL, be cut the next week as few NFL contracts are guaranteed. They can
be traded at anytime regardless. In fact, Babe Ruth was "sold" to the
Yankees by the Red Sox owner because he was nearly bankrupt because some
broadway play he produced flopped. Yes, these players are well paid, but they
are still employees and they had to actually fight for their rights for free
Sorry, I have never heard of In-N-Out burgers! What you say may be true but I
doubt they can compete with Mickey D's or BK for long unless there is no
competition for miles-very isolated market. If they can compete, as you say, why
are they not expanding, taking market away from their competitors, building new
stores everywhere? Obviously they aren't. Let a McDonalds or BK move in
across the street and see what happens to them! They can't survive selling
products for more than their competition. No one ever has for very long! Just
ask American Motors or Enron.
Mountanman"Open a business and don't be 'greedy!'
Pay your employees more than anyone else in your business!"In-N-Out Burger does just that -- and does so while charging LESS for their
products AND while using more expensive, fresh ingredients AND while employing
more people. This single-handedly exposes the "it will raise
prices and cause unemployment" assertions for what they really are: false,
fearmongering propaganda, typically used by employers/businessmen/stockholders
who simply do not want to pay their hirelings a fair wage. By their
accounts, In-N-Out Burger's business model is utterly impossible. And yet
In-N-Out thrives. How is this possible? Answer: the fact that they
take their Christianity seriously. Unlike so many businessmen in this country
especially in Utah, In-N-Out is not consumed by the singular pursuit of profit
to the point of GREED.
This is so hard to understand, boy in my days of working in a Drug Store (no
mcDonalds at that time) I made .25 or .35 cents an hour and was happy to have a
job. I often look at families where every little kid has a cell phone in
church, and mentally I add up what this must cost. I think people are getting
very spoiled today. We walked to school, 3 miles, regardless of weather. I
raised 5 children, and they also had to walk to school, although not 3 miles. I
had a very good paying job made $200.00 a month, and my children were well
dressed, because I made most of their clothes. What is happening to people that
they can't take care of their families and learn to live on what they
make. I am greatful that I have been taught to live within my means, and have
tried to teach my children the same. higher wages mean higher prices for
everyone so what is the use of complaining about wages. Be glad that you have
a job and can work.
@ anti-liar:You not living up to your moniker. It now takes a
million dollar deposit to open up a new McDonald's. That means it takes a
hefty return on investment just to break even. Greed is not part of the equation
for most franchise owners. Employee wages are the biggest single
variable cost to doing fast-food business. So it becomes quite easy to
understand that food item prices would have to increase significantly if
employee wages were forced to double. It's not rocket science, and
it's not propaganda. Claiming otherwise actually is.You need to
talk to a sizable number of fast-food employees. Most never intend to keep their
jobs long-term. Many, if not most, are students just trying to work their way
through school. That truly means they are not "lifelong careers". No
minimum wage job is ever intended to be. With record numbers of
people living on welfare, claiming the current generation is the hardest working
in history is debatable. The pre and post-WWII workforce could probably lay
legitimate claim to that title. Like most of your argument, your
cited scriptures are also out of context.
If you want more money, learn a skill that people are willing to pay more
for.I don't go to fast food places very often, but when I do,
the service I get usually makes me feel like the staff is already overpaid.
When the prices increase with the wage increase, I'll stop going to fast
food places and then they'll lose their jobs, which would be even sadder
than making $9 an hour.
@ anti-liar. Then here is your golden opportunity to practice what you preach!
Open a business and don't be "greedy"! Pay your employees more than
anyone else in your business! Of course that will mean your prices will be
higher than any of your competitors and no one will buy your product (no matter
what it is). See you in bankruptcy court! Then what will your former employees
do for a paycheck? Well, there is always unemployment checks, paid for by those
who are "greedy".
I agree that the minimum wage for full time workers should be raised as I
don't believe many greedy business owners would raise wages on their own;
but come on $15 per hour for unskilled fast-food workers is just insane. Having
encountered many of these workers over the years they prove to me often they
would never be worth those wages.
All these people are doing is protesting themselves and future potential fast
food employees out of a job. The technology is basically there too have most of
their jobs automated. So if the minimum wage is raised it soon will become more
cost effective for their employers to get automated cashier and even food making
machines. Their employers would then probably hire just one employee at the new
minimum wage (instead of the usual 3-4+ who are usually on each shift) to manage
the equipment and keep an eye on customers. And even that employee would be more
likely to be required to have some higher education, given the wage (if they
manage to get $15/hour). Even without the implementation of automated cashiers
and food making machines, employers would either need to cut cost or raise
prices. One easier cost to cut is a few employees. One thing about most fast
food employees: they generally are not well educated and thus do not understand
"Prices would have to go up significantly." "...a corresponding
increase in unemployment."False, fear-mongering propaganda.
Raising wages simply would mean employers having to be content with a little
less profit accumulation. In-N-Out Burger pays their people MORE, yet their
burgers cost LESS than the competition. "Fast food jobs were
never meant to be lifelong careers."Says who? Length of job
engagement is irrelevant. What is relevant is an employee consecrating the best
waking hours of his lifetime and his labor to someone else's business. He
deserves to share in the profit. "...learn how to work and be
responsible."Well, Gee, how convenient. Perhaps the employee
should be paying the employer, then. "What used to be the most
productive and educated workforce in the world..."America's
workforce today is the most productive and hard-working in history. "...inept government administrations."It's either the
worker's fault or the government's fault, but never the
employer's fault. Again, how convenient. Deny it all you
want, folks. The real problem is employer GREED. No wonder Jesus spoke of
camels, of eyes of needles, and of "oppressing the hireling in his
@ Schnee. Babe Ruth was the product the team sold! He was not an employee he was
the product! He is why people paid to come to the game. They didn't pay to
see the owner of the team! They paid to see the Babe hit more home runs.
Customers paid his salary, not the owners! Actually,he paid the owner's
salary, not the other way around! If not for the Babe, what would the owners
have to sell? No matter what business you are in, your customers pay your
salary! No customers, no salary! The only exception is the government which has
no product but uses the power of the state to force people to pay for that which
they will not receive so others can receive what they never worked for. We used
to call that slavery but today liberals call it "social justice".
I also might suggest that some conservatives go beyond say the Soviet Union in
their examples of socialism. I would say many countries are socialistic or have
high amounts of socialism in their economy and these countries' (Sweden,
Denmark, Norway etc.) citizens seem quite happy with this arrangement. There is
nothing sacred about capitalism and I doubt it will be the economic system in
the next life. There might be other forms of socialism not as extreme as what
was tried in the Soviet Union, it's not the only alternative to
capitalism.I for one think capitalism is a good system if reasonably
checked by the government. I also, as I've said before, believe in
responsible capitalism. An example of this in the fast word world is In and Out
Burger. They are a highly profitable company that pays higher wages to its
workers. Their workers are more motivated so the service is better and the
overall product is better. McDonald's, Burger King etc. are being simply
called out by their employees. It will be interesting to see what direction
these companies go.
I'm going to throw this out, to me it is actually a free market perspective
but will counter a number of conservative positions.One, these
workers are fully free to strike. This is America. They are fully free to show
up for work, not show up to work etc.Perhaps as these conservatives
say, they can be easily be replaced by robots, immigrants, teachers or others
desperate for a minimum wage job.Or perhaps these business might
learn that their labor is more valuable than the wage given. Perhaps customers
will realize their value as well. It will be interesting to see
what happens. But in the 1880's when unions obtained a foothold, things
started to change. But again I don't see what these people are doing as
un-American but actually truly American. The market will tell the tale. If
they aren't worth more than minimum wage, they will come back to work and
accept their lot or be replaced. But if service goes downhill or customers stay
away perhaps in support, I guess the value of their labor might improve.
So, everyone ready for $12 hamburgers, $6 Fries, and $4 drinks?If
you can do the math you know it is coming. If you can't you probably work
permanently in the fast food industry.This is just silly. These
businesses were not meant to be living wages on a permanent basis. My kid
worked at Artic Circle this summer. He has no job skills, why should they pay
him $15/hr? It is and should be motivation for him to get off his butt and make
something of himself. I don't want him to be able to get by working there.
He needs to realize it does not pay enough money to live on.Ridiculous.
Raising the minimum wage wil price people out a job. I agree with most of the
comments here.Having said that there has been a CEO arms race with
CEOs of large corporations getting higher and higher compensation. It doesnt
necessarialy mean they are more competent or that they add more value. It has
been a trend in the US.I would propose that companies cannot deduct
more executive compensation that exceeds more than 40x what the median employee
makes. Companies will be free to do it, but they will not be able to deduct it
as a cost of doing business.Mountainman? Worf? What are your
I would be totally mad if Avon sales rang my doorbell in the "wee hours of
@ Schnee:I have a cousin who has lived in Canada for not quite two
decades. He came back to Utah for a family reunion last year. During
our conversation, he told me the ongoing furtherance of socialism in Canada is
creating a certain level of political controversy and that the socialism there
is definitely the most negative part of living in Canada. He said it directly
increases the cost of living. He also told me that if there was one
thing he could change about Canada, that would be it. Other than that, he really
loves it there.
Raise their wages to $15 per hour. That will give me a bigger excuse not to eat
out. Once people stop going fast food because they don't want to pay $20
for a hamburger, what are these workers going to do. The companies will go out
of business and they will be unemployed.
These strikers need to study employment history. Almost without exception,
whenever the minimum wage has been increased, especially when by a significant
amount, there is always a corresponding increase in unemployment. These strikers better be willing to accept the fact that their strike will
cause many of them to lose their jobs altogether, rather than receiving their
increased hourly rate. They aren't be led by informed and knowledgeable
people. This thing is definitely going to backfire on many of them to the
benefit of a smaller percentage.
@ gmlewis:You apparently don't understand the economics of the
situation. Since employee wages are the highest variable cost in the fast food
industry, doubling wages will NOT be covered by adding just a few cents to the
price of a hamburger. Far from it. Prices would have to go up significantly. There would then be a significant number of customers. Then many fast
food places would go out of businesses. Thus, many of those striking today will
be without jobs. Sadly, they don't understand basic business principles and
just don't get it. The worker quoted in the article said she is
worth more money. If that was true, then somebody else would be giving her
offers of more money to work for them. Again, that's how free-market
enterprise works. And that's directly related to the supply and demand
curve.There are at least 12 million illegals in our country helping
to create a larger supply of low-level workers while the demand for those
workers stays relatively equal. Hence, there is no need to pay those workers
more. There are plenty of others willing to take those jobs at current wages.
BYU sports on TV in Missouri,I couldn't have said it better!
I have a hard time believing that fast food workers do the kind of work that
merits 15 bucks an hour. The price of fast food will only go up if
this occurs, which could be a good thing... if I end up buying it less
Many people who work in factories operating machines or welding are currently
receiving $15/hr for their knowledge and skills. If you raise minimum wage to
$15 then these people will expect to be paid $22/hr. And everybody above minimum
will expect to receive at least a $7/hr raise.
@Say No to BOYou "rested your case" because I assume you
don't want to argue how Sweden or Canada are distinctly inferior places to
live. I think you just want everyone to associate the word socialism with the
Soviet Union or China or North Korea (even though we had a different word for
those nations... communist).
@Sasha Pachev"The 49% that have a favorable view of socialism have
never tried to appreciate what it was like to live in the Soviet Union. "Or they know the difference between living in the Soviet Union and
living in Canada... that's a pretty wide range of socailisms.
It seems that logic is in short supply these days.Lets replace the
wage discussion with a classroom discussion... Because you come to
class....Does not mean you have earned an A.Because you want an A.... Does
not mean you have earned an A.Because your mommy wants you to get an A....
Does not mean you have earned an A.Because you took a test... Does not
mean you have earned an A.Because you turned in your homework... Does not
mean you have earned an AIf you want an A you need to do the things
that get you an A.Same applies to getting paid more.... Because you
have bills to pay is not a reason why an employer should pay you more money...
If you need to earn more, improve your skills so that you are worth more. There
are plenty of jobs that pay better than working for a fast food restaurant.
Just because someone wants something does not mean they are entitled to having
The 49% that have a favorable view of socialism have never tried to appreciate
what it was like to live in the Soviet Union. Not surprising, most Americans of
the younger generation have no idea who Brezhnev was, will think you are
swearing in some tribal dialect when Khruschev is mentioned, might remember a
fact or two about Stalin, and may wonder what John Lennon is doing in the tomb
on Red Square when they hear the name Lenin. The first two had the ability to
wipe out the United States with a push of a button while the remaining two have
laid a physical and ideological foundation for the potential. This
forgetfulness leads to quite a bit of confusion of values.That said,
I am in favor of raising minimum wage in the fast food industry to $100/hour.
This will put it out of business which will have a side effect of lowering my
health insurance premiums.
Some comments today suggest that there are plenty of alternatives to working for
fast food establishments, but this is not true for most of these part-time
workers.Other comments suggest that these low-skill people have
brought their woes upon themselves. That may be true of all of us; everybody has
made some poor choices. Others lacked opportunites that we may take for
granted.I suggest an alternative to strikes and power plays to
demand higher pay. Instead, let the consumers decide: are we willing to pay a
few cents extra per burger for a company that meets the $15/hour minimum
wage?Let's start a viral trend, by asking the Fast Food manager
to accept an extra $1/meal as a gratuity for their part-time workers. If enough
folks did this, the FF chains would see that customers would accept higher
prices if they knew the workers were adequately paid.
@SchneeExhibit A. I rest my case.
@Say no to bo"They were never taught history and don't understand
the dangers."Of what? Being Canada? Norway? Denmark? Sweden?
Australia?@Mountanman"They have no idea the value a
particular person brings to an organization. "You used Babe Ruth
as an example. Ruth was an employee, not the person writing paychecks. So do
only some employees know their value (obviously you don't think these fast
food workers do)?
Lets say they get the raise to $15/hour. Lets suppose that most employees are
not replaced with technology/automation. Very few people currently
working in fast food would continue to be there under these circumstances. At
$15/hr employers can go hire school teachers for summers and evenings. You can
replace a teenager with a college educated adult? Which employee would you
Well, most fast food isn't good for you, anyway. One day off of it for the
public seems like a good thing to me. People who are demanding these outrageous
pay increases are in serious problem of not having pay at all.
The VERY BEST thing advocates for higher wages could do is to "hitch their
wagon" to comprehensive illegal immigration ENFORCEMENT.Illegal
alien trespassers are DIRECTLY responsible for low wages. DESPITE what amnesty
advocates tell you.As long as smarmy employers are allowed, with
impunity, to import low-wage workers - wages will REMAIN low.Its' not complicated.
If you are working at a fast food place then you can not complain about the pay.
If you want more money then go get a different job!
Babe Ruth was once asked by a reporter why he deserved to be paid more than the
President of the US? The Babe said, "Because I had a better year than he
did." How preposterous it is for Obama or any other jealous socialist to
pontificate on what a CEO, professional athlete or fast food worker should be
paid when they are not the ones who pay them! They have no idea the value a
particular person brings to an organization. That's something for the
owners of the company to decide, the only people who have their "skin in the
game". If Karl Marx had been right, every third world nation full of workers
would be prosperous, but they are not because they produce little or nothing
that anyone wants to pay for! In other words, liberals, you either produce
something consumers are willing to pay for or there are no jobs, no paychecks,
no taxpayers and yes, eventually no food stamps, period! It matters not what
business you are in, consumers pay your salary and fast food workers may soon
learn that consumers are unwilling to pay you for your overpriced products!
Hopefully people will realize that they don't need Fast Food unless it is
"natures fast food" like apples, bananas, etc.The
entitlement mentality is going to ruin our country.How many of these
$15 an hour wannabe's would have defended the Alamo to the death?
In late 2011 Pew did a survey about socialism vs capitalism. Forty-nine percent
of people in the 18-29 age bracket say they have a positive view of socialism;
only 43 percent say they have a negative view.Hence, the Occupy Movement
and the $15/hour push.They were never taught history and don't
understand the dangers.My guess is that experience will be a demanding
A workers wage that garners twice or more than what they are getting paid now
will create a fallout that will be worse than anyone might imagine. Both Europe
and the Far East have maximized efficiency and profits by eliminating the
workforce entirely by automating fast food – with great success. A machine
can produce an order perfectly every time. It doesn’t complain about
working conditions or get vindictive against “uncooperative”
customers. It requires neither health, medical or other retirement benefits and
doesn’t care if it has stock options. And while automating
food service may initially be expensive, the savings realized by laying off
thousands of over/underpaid mostly uneducated workers that think they deserve a
wage most college graduates don’t earn will WAY more than offset start-up
costs. Granted, automation lacks the “human touch” but
if a business has to choose between profits and people it won’t be hard to
figure out which goes first. Also, the attitude of “If I can’t get
what I want, then I just won’t show up.” will doubtfully go well
with employers. Be careful what you ask for. You might just get it.
I dropped out of High School. I got facial piercings and or tatoos. I have
poor social skills. I don't want to go back to school and get an education.
But you should pay me $15/hr because it's not my fault.
If I were manager of these restraunts my help wanted signs would be going up
today with a warning to any protestor- don't show up its not excused and
you will be terminated. Before people say how mean I was taught by my small
business grandfather that you work an honest days labor for an honest days wage.
Everyone remembers the wage part but often forgets the value of the labor
portion of that saying. It is menial labor for a reason people you are not meant
to make a career out of it. 6 types of people should be working these jobs1.People just entering the workforce2.People just getting back on their
feet from a major life altering situation(i.e. death, divorce etc)3.People
working their way through school4.People needing supplamental income not
primary5.People who have retired and want to continue to work and have
secondary income6.People going for upper management who will make a career
of it but know they are working up from the bottom.When minimum wage
increases any gain is eaten up in inflation and devalues the everyone elses
While I do sympathize with fast food worker's plight, their demands of
$15.00/hr are not sustainable. Fast food jobs were never meant to be lifelong
careers. Exceptions being store managers and franchise owners. FF jobs have
always been introductory type jobs into the work force to give young men and
women a chance to earn money, learn how to work and be responsible. What used to
be the most productive and educated workforce in the world has dwindled and
succumbed to overseas competition, corporate greed and nurse maid policies
conceived by inept government administrations.