Something interesting to consider about marajuana is the purpose of its use:
people smoke it to get high.(Most) People who drink don't drink
to get drunk, they socialize in environments that involve alcohol. The
inebriation brought by drunkenness is usually looked down on, unless you're
a teenager who thinks watching your friend make a fool of himself is
hilarious.People who smoke don't smoke for the purpose of
harming themself, they do it to satisfy a craving.The use of
marajuana is principally and -specifically to- sacrifice your self control.
@JKR...What does B. Young have anything to do with this issue? Using your logic
if The Pope comes out tomorrow and says he is in favor of legalization then this
should be the law of the land? Separation of Church and State my friend. For
some reason most in Utah have a difficult time understanding and accepting this
right. Hmmmm...Wonder why.
Hey JKR -" Psychiatric hospital admissions will increase as more
people use and lose touch with reality.". . . And the Republican
Party will grow exponentially. . . People might even vote for a
Republican President again.
Don't let em git you down. The states that legalize pot use, starting with
Colorado and Washington, will live to regret this decision. Psychiatric
hospital admissions will increase as more people use and lose touch with
reality. Who will pay for this? Taxpayers, of course. And less taxes will be
collected as more and more people smoke dope, failing to produce goods and
services. Let's revisit this column in 20 years. As a society, we need
less drug use and less smoking, not more. Brigham Young would agree, no doubt.
Wait a second. Believe I constantly come across numerous posts regarding a
reduced federal government and more State rights. Correct? In closing, marijuana
is not a "social experiment", the legalization of it is the experiment.
Possibly rather dropping bombs in the Middle East peace can be obtained by the
dropping of a wonderful 100% natural herb!
@2 bitsCottonwood Heights, UTDon't get all religious and
self righteous on this. We CAN have laws regarding MJ.... and not be on the
Devil's side.With or without laws... you still have decisions
to make every day (ie, whether you will obey them or not).3:05 p.m. Aug.
22, 2014======= We DO alredady have laws about it.1. You can drive under the influence.2. You can not operate
equipment, go to work, baby sit children, etc.3. Any law about being DRUNK
in public or doing something dangerous is ALREADY a law.4. This is about
"prohibition", period.I thought you were a
"libertarian" -- i.e., smaller Government, let people make their own
decisions, etc.It appears you are no different the the Utah-liban
who keep hiding behind Sharia-type-laws with a Mormon spin on it.If
you are against it the Middle East -- You better show some integrity and
be willing to be against it here in America.
@one voteRe: "It is a plant that grows from the earth. Get over
it"...What a weak superficial way to look at it... there are
plenty of plants that grow from the earth that are deadly. Google "List of
poisonous plants"... There's pages and pages and pages of them...============@LDS Liberal.The adults in the room
are talking about the social costs of MJ... do you care to comment on THAT...
instead of the usual "I'm a better Mormon than you", rantings??Nobody's re-fighting the war in heaven over this. Don't get
over dramatic. By your logic... there would be NO LAWS period (because they
would be restricting somebody's agency).Don't get all
religious and self righteous on this. We CAN have laws regarding MJ.... and not
be on the Devil's side.With or without laws... you still have
decisions to make every day (ie, whether you will obey them or not).
I do not -- drink alcoholcoffee tea caffinated sodaor use tobaccoI do not have tatoos, pierced ears, lips,
nose, I do not watch "R" rated movies or porn.I
am clean shaven, with no facial hair.I wear a white shirt and tie on
Sundays.andI do not use marijuana.I do these
things by exercising my own free will and CHOICE, I do not seek to
legislate, or FORCE my will onto others, no matter how "right" it
might be, and even if it saves their souls.I fought that plan
in the pre-existence.I'm still fighting that plan in this life as
well, ironically with those who I thought shared my same beliefs.
Yes, one vote. It is a plant that grows from the earth, just like hemlock,
tobacco, thistles, poison ivy, poison oak, and all the other noxious weeds and
poisonous plants in the world. Just because it grows, doesn't mean
it's safe to ingest, harmless to humans or "good for you". Perhaps
a course in plant biology could be recommended?
It is a plant that grows from the earth. Get over it.
"I don't fear pot-heads.... I just wouldn't want them in my
operating room or on my team, or piloting an airplane, or driving a bus, or
train (or a car for that matter)."Those people are already
smoking pot. It is already available.
I think I should reinforce that the op-ed piece is about the social costs, not
the criminality or the lack there of. Here in Colorado where they voted to
legalize it, the so-called tax windfall is falling terrifically short.
We've had more robberies of pot shops and some deaths have come from
overdose. They get to much of it and jump off something... Lung cancer
isn't selective, it doesn't care if you smoke tobacco or dope, so the
social costs of medical care and lost productivity are there. We have found
that Colorado is the source of most of the illegal dope in surrounding states,
and there is quite a black market going now, just covered on the local news
outlets. Just like the contraband cigarettes and booze, they try to avoid the
taxes.....imagine that...The social costs of reduced productivity
will become more evident in the coming years. The panacea promoted by those
supporting legalization glossed them over, but they become more and more evident
as time goes by.
"Marijuana acceptance will lead to social costs"“Social Costs?” Sure, there are tradeoffs to everything.But along with social costs, there are social benefits.And that is
what has a certain segment of society worried. The drug cartels and associates
in the illicit drug trade will see a huge drop in revenue.If
Marijuana is fully legalized, Americans who want to indulge will have no reason
to buy their weed indirectly from drug cartels or illicit producers. They
won’t be supplying funds to organized criminal enterprises.We
should legalize all the major recreational drugs while we’re at it . . .
And all victimless crimes. I’m with the Libertarians on this issue.
Americans are the biggest customers of Mexican Drug Cartels. Just legalizing
dope would make our southern border safe again.Let’s just
legalize it, tax it, rake in the millions, billions and eventual trillions in
revenue, and of course use some of those funds to deal with the social costs,
the negative repercussions of that change.
Just more fear mongering without the slightest substantial fact.
@Mike Richards"Follow the money trail."Actually, the
biggest provider of advocacy funds against decriminalization it is the tobacco
companies (they don't want competition).@2 bitsThe safety
claims are based on the idea that it generally doesn't cause health issues
at substantial rates like lung cancer or liver disease for tobacco and alcohol,
not the idea that people won't potentially injure themselves while under
its influence. That said, I would never use it even if it were
legal, just like I don't smoke or drink.
@Mike Richards"Ignore those who tell us that marijuana is less deadly
than alcohol."But what if they're correct and we're
sitting with a system where a more dangerous drug is legal (tobacco) and a less
dangerous drug is illegal (marijuana). Shouldn't we put more common sense
into the drug laws (either ban the one or legalize the other, just put them in a
logical position relative to each other)?
@2 bits.Let me help you with the permissiveness/slippery slope.It can be assumed that all Hells Angels rode bikes as kids.Do all
kids who ride bikes become hells angels at one time?If not, than riding a
bike does not what causes one to join a Motorcycle Gang.Alcohol, Our
forefathers drank a lot of it, for breakfast lunch and dinner. By your logic,
we should be a nation of drunken lunatics by now. Those moral objections
you raise about sex or pregnancy and abortion are a nation growing up and
shaking the shackles of religion and ignorance. How many women died from back
room abortions before they were legal?Giving people a choice is
freedom.@2bits. Why is it considered "Performance Enhancing"
by the Olympic Committee?Can you have it both ways? Guess so.Your comparing actions by individuals, and very few by percentage. Sober
folks like those BYU students dropping gas bombs old mine shafts managed to
injure themselves what happened to your take responsibility vs choosing for
Hemp, hemp, hemp... George Washington grew hemp... Brigham Young grew hemp... I
think we all know that there are more uses for hemp than just smoking it.
Don't be a hemp-head. I suspect Brigham Young grew hemp for one of these
reasons (not to smoke it).=============Why do the people
from ONE specific political persuasion seem to feel the need to defend
recreational use of Marijuana??? Can somebody explain why it seems to be so
cleanly divided on political lines?==============OMM,If MJ is so safe... why can you be arrested for driving under it's
influence in all 50 States? Why have we thrown train engineers and ferry
drivers into jail who caused huge accidents when under the influence of this
"SAFE" herb?Can you explain why their being impaired was a
problem... if hemp is completely "SAFE"?And why they went to jail
for doing this "SAFE" thing??And why so many people have to go to
REHAB to get off it?Obviously it's not completely safe. You
are just willing to overlook that fact and repeat the hemp-head rhetoric you
@Mike RichardsSouth Jordan, UtahMarijuana is labeled "dope"
for a reason. ===== Please site the Constitution for
your banning marijuana.You are either FOR freedom, or against it.Using a Double Standard, Picking and choosing is disingeuous and not
being honest.Coffee, Tea dn Tobacco are all legal, but I
CHOOSE not to use them.FYI -- George Washington grew hemp.And Brigham Young encouraged the Saints to grow hemp as well.
re: airnaut & Ernest TI agree w/ you both.But, this
is Utah. The state motto could be a quote from H.L. Mencken... "Puritanism
is the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy."
@Hutterite,I don't fear pot-heads.... I just wouldn't want them
in my operating room or on my team, or piloting an airplane, or driving a bus,
or train (or a car for that matter).I was making the
"permissiveness leads to more permissiveness" argument. How does the
slippery slope argument not hold water? Can you enlighten us or give us proof
that permissiveness doesn't lead to more permissiveness? Because I can
give examples where it has.50 years ago... were we as permissive on
abortion as we are today? How about same-sex marriage... are we
more accepting and permissive on that than we were say... 30 years ago??Have we gradually gotten more permissive on premarital sex? And sex
between adults who are married to other partners... The answer is yes...And on drugs... does lessening restrictions on alcohol not help justify
lessening them on MJ and other drugs? That argument's being used
already... so it's hard to deny it...Do you have proof that the
slippery-slope argument DOESN'T hold water??Have countries that
legalized MJ not later legalized OTHER drugs? Yes... they have. It holds
Marijuana is labeled "dope" for a reason. Those who are under its
influence are "dopey". Their judgement is impaired; but, that
doesn't matter to those who advocate "dope". They don't care
what it does to others as long as they can get it "legally".
That's a "dopey" attitude. When we no longer care about the
effects of drugs on society, citing, perhaps, that alcohol kills more people in
Utah than "dope", then we have lost our humanity. We guard
our children against shock by inserting safety plugs in our outlets, but we
throw them out with the bathwater when we minimize the harm that "dope"
does to society. We let those who have too little understanding of the body to
be influenced by "pushers" who want "dope". Studies
have shown that most "pushers" are also "users". Addicts want
drugs so they ush those drugs on others. Two States have joined with the
pushers. Those States want to make money off "dope" users by taxing
"dope".Follow the money trail. Ignore those who tell us that
marijuana is less deadly than alcohol.
I drink alcohol and smoke marijuana regularly while leading a productive,
enjoyable life. You know what I would never touch? The stuff that comes in jars
from the pharmacy. I take baby aspirin and stay physically healthy. Good luck
with preventing me from engaging in my occasional intoxicants, legal or not.
There are far more people texting and using hand held cell phones in Washington
(where hand held cell phone usage is banned) and in other states than the few
would would choose to use marijuana without a designated driver. For a head
line that suggested the writer was going to objectively look at "costs"
this article was a piece of fluff that addressed the writer's phobias and
Am I sitting in Sunday School, or reading the Newspaper?
You are correct about one thing 2bits, the big pharm companies love when they
can sell addicting pills.Most people I know on anti depressants or
other psychotropics have no idea that they are addicted to them and can not stop
without taking a hand full of other pills to combat the "Comedown." Stop using heroin (another big pharm invention) and you'll wish you
were dead but it won't kill you, try stopping most prescription drugs and
this isn't true, even alcohol withdrawls can kill you....and
the slippery slope argument doesn't hold water.Pot, no overdoes, no
physical addiction, (see chocolate) 5,000 years of human research should be
enough.Addictive personalities will always have trouble, like the
folks i know who are addicted to AA meetings, the schedules rule their lives,
yes, they are more pleasant not being drunk, but they are addicted to the
meeting as a distraction from the original addiction.
People who are internally or externally denied something always try to find ways
to deny it to others. The potheads you fear are already among you, mellow and
hungry. I am not among them, by the way. I figure if we could get the Arabs and
Israelis to take up pot smoking, there would be peace in the region.
This opinion piece is a sermon, not a well reasoned discussion of a public
policy issue. The facts presented do not support his conclusion. And there is
no discussion of the effects of the ridiculous level of incarceration,
alternative approaches, or the existing prevalence of drugs now, which involves
the disasterous "War on Drugs". This piece is an obfuscation. We know
where the writer stands, but it's not much use.
Pot Permissiveness just leads to permissiveness on OTHER things. It's a
gradual thing. First this, then a little latitude on other drugs... Personally I don't care if drugs are legal or not... I'm not going
to use them. But there IS a social cost associated with drug use and addiction
(and that includes alcohol). There's no doubting that.... look at all the
people in REHAB already!===============IMO
Permissiveness is fine, just as long as you also give people responsibility for
the CONSEQUENCES of their choices (not society).When you need
rehab... pay for it yourself, don't bill it to Medicaid or expect society
to pay for it.==============When you loose your job for
not being able (or caring enough) to perform your job duties because of
addiction or embracing the stoner-lifestyle... don't expect society to pay
you unemployment to sit home and smoke it with your friends.==============As long as people are OK with taking responsibility
for their actions (and not expect society to bail them out for bad decisions)...
I'm OK with expanding a LOT of things that are currently illegal (but are
really just stupid)...
I don't use marijuana, (or booze for that matter), so I really
couldn't care less whether its' legal or not.HOWEVER;
we've spent billions (trillions?)over the last 6 decades trying to combat
its' use. All to basically no avail.How many more billions
should we spend? Billions that we don't have BTW!Fiscal
conservatives like myself should just give up and cut our losses.We
can no longer afford to fight the "war on drugs". Just like we
can't afford to be the worlds policeman.
Alcohol consumption is far worse than marijuana use.
I wish Utah would grow up and join them, in a celebration of Freedom and
Liberty, Lord know, Utah could use the revenue for education. To each
they're own, intoxicants exist in all cultures, always have always will.
A silly, subjective editorial. Pot is not a social experiment, decriminalizing
it is. Legalizing pot in CA & WA has had many positive effects and the sky
has not fallen as predicated by opponents like Jay. As someone who travels to
these states on business and has friends and family living in both you'll
find most people happy with the legalization and the outcome up to this point.
More states will soon be following suit because of the sucess of decriminalizing
it as experienced in Washington and Colorado.
The same arguments could be made to rid the country of legal alcohol and
tobacco. However, these drugs are considered safe and are widely, legally
available.There are hundreds of legal prescription drugs available
and in use by people of all ages. These drugs treat a variety of legitimate
afflictions, but have the same effects as those described by this LTE. However,
I don't see any movement to take away the extraordinarily profitable
ventures of big Pharma to rid the country of life altering addictions.If you don't like marijuana, don't smoke it. Same goes for legal
booze and cigarettes. You might even try going cold turkey on those little
happy pills, if it would not drive you to suicide. Illegal drugs, like alcohol
and tobacco are public health problems that should be legally available and
regulated. And spend some time analyzing the over medicated country for a
change. Happy pills can be every bit as deleterious.
I was at a fast food place, and I saw 2 guys...drinking a beer!Oh brother, It would seem that someone must not realize that prohibition
was reversed nearly 100 years ago, and that alcohol [a much more dangerous
drug] is legal in all 50 states.FYI -- Utah deaths per year --
perscription drugs - 534Guns - 510Automobile accidents -
420marijuana - 0
"This might not have happened if the president of the United States had
decided to enforce a federal law against marijuana use."What
happened to states rights and smaller federal government?
Marijuana is already available here in Utah and has been since Utah was
conceived. The problems claimed to be unleashed are already unleashed. Did Jay
want those boys from Texas thrown in jail? He didn't mention if he wanted
that. Here in Utah we could just throw them in jail. I don't want that,
and the majority of Americans dont' want that either as it turns out.