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Comments about ‘Reports: Former BYU star Brett Keisel agrees to re-sign with Steelers after declining invite from Cardinals’

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Published: Tuesday, Aug. 19 2014 4:40 p.m. MDT

Updated: Wednesday, Aug. 20 2014 6:47 a.m. MDT

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Pipes
Salt Lake City, UT

Not a bad career for a 7th round pick. I wonder how many stars he had coming out of high school?

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

Pipes,

That whole stars thing really bothers schools who try and convince themselves they have just as good of a chance at winning big time bowl games and going undefeated using mostly 2 stars as the teams full of 3-5 stars.

Did you know that a 5 star has the highest chance of going to the NFL.

Next is a 4 star.

Next is a 3 star.

I'm happy to provide some studies that have proven this - but go do your own research first and then get back to me.

Pitt Man
New York City, NY

Pipes,
Not to mention BYU-er Chris Hoke, who went undrafted but then played ten years and won two rings on the same Steelers D-line as Kiesel.

Ball Boy
Payson, UT

@Chris B

I'm not doubting you at all. Please provide the studies that you have found. I would love to read the info.

Thank you

Y Grad / Y Dad
Richland, WA

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

Pipes,

"That whole stars thing really bothers schools who try and convince themselves they have just as good of a chance at winning big time bowl games and going undefeated using mostly 2 stars as the teams full of 3-5 stars."

But it doesn't bother at all those teams supposedly full of 3-5 star recruits who can't get to a bowl game in the last couple of years?

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

ball boy,

There is a great one called "How sleeper recruits still make the NFL, despite blue-chip dominance"

A perfect summary from that article:

•A five-star recruit had a three-in-five chance of getting drafted (16 of 27).
•A four-star had a one-in-five chance (77 of 395).
•A three-star had a one-in-18 chance (92 of 1,644).
•A two-star/unrated recruit had a one-in-34 chance (71 of 2,434).

Hope that helps!

And yes, those who like to believe 2 stars are the same as 3,4,5 stars aren't going to like it!

What do you think after having read the article Ball Boy?

sammyg
Springville, UT

Chris B

If you truly believed in your so called 'star' studies then you'd realize that Utes are and will forever be ill prepared to compete against the likes of the premier recruiting giants of the PAC10.

If Casey Kassem were a Ute fan he'd still say, "Keep reaching for the stars!"

Utes will need a lot of them to even begin to be a force to reckon with in the PAC12. You can take the Utes out of the WAC/MWC but you can't take the WAC/MWC out of the Utes.

Sendero1
Mesa, AZ

C'mon people, get real. I love the "walk-on made good", cute l'il Rudy-esque stories as much as anyone, but such stories in reality are exceptions and outliers - you can't count on stocking programs with them, because there are never enough such kids. That's why we all love such stories when we hear them - because they are unusual, and therefore inspirational. But for every Keisel the Diesel and Chris Hoke you can name, I can give you 50 NFL guys that started their career as HS kids with 3+ recruiting stars, who were sought after by multiple major programs out of HS.

We've all historically been too tolerant of crappy BYU recruiting classes, imagining, I suppose, that the staff has some kind of magic crystal ball no other staff has. Then, last year they actually started hustling a little bit, and won a few head-to-head recruiting battles against major programs for some recruits that other schools actually wanted. Hallelujah! We should welcome this trend, and not settle for, nor celebrate, the recruiting of unheralded recruits as though it were some badge of honor -- as in and of itself, it isn't.

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

sendero1,

Be careful. Logic isn't too popular in Provo. They'd rather keep believing a team full of kids that really try hard and are nice kids even though they aren't as athletic will somehow magically come together under Bronco's "leadership" and hear the word execution and quest and band of brothers enough that such warm fuzzy feelings will lead them to football greatness.

But its nice to see some reality from you. Well done

ekute
Layton, UT

Keisel The Diesel...The (original)Beard. Congratulations on a great career. I've enjoyed watching him. I don't care what school he played for or what his star rating was.

PG #1 FAN
Lindon, UT

My guess is that this BYU team has more 3 and 4 star athletes than Utah. We didn't win all the original recruiting battles but somehow they ended up at BYU. I guess they like bowl games, winning records and playing on National TV every week.

skitter
Orem, UT

I agree with Chris on this one. Guys like Kiesel are the exception, not the norm. Great player with not alot of hype from High School. Stars are usually a pretty god indicator of talent. Take the last 5 years of BYU and utah for example. BYU star averages are 2.74, 2.33, 2.88, 2.53 and 3.04. utah's are 2.65, 2.63, 2.75, 2.9 and 2.92. It's hard to win in big boy conferences with 2 star recruits. Schools like BYU and utah have to rely on more guys like Kiesel, hidden gems from Wyoming. Good luck on the season Bret. To bad you play for the steelers though.

Old But Not Stupid
Moorpark, CA

Chrissy-

"And yes, those who like to believe 2 stars are the same as 3,4,5 stars aren't going to like it!"

Please stop it with the false straw men. NO ONE has ever asserted 2 stars are the same as 3,4, 0r 5 stars!

"Be careful. Logic isn't too popular in Provo."

Use of false straw men isn't "real" logic; ergo, Real Logic must not be too popular on the Hill.

Wiscougarfan
River Falls, WI

FWIW, I did a quick search to see how many 4- or 5-star recruits are either signed-to or on current rosters for both BYU and Utah. Note: I included transfers to BYU but not to Utah (if there are any) because I don’t follow their program.

BYU (15): Dayan Lake (2015), Fred Warner (2014), Brayden Kearsley (2013), Troy Hinds (2012), Tanner Mangum (2012), Ryker Mathews (2011), Nick Kurtz (2011, JC transfer), Harvey Langi (2011, transfer from Utah), Ross Apo (2010), Zac Stout (2010), Graham Rowley (2010), Bronson Kaufusi (2010), Craig Bills (2009), Adam Hine (2009), Taysom Hill (2009, transfer from Stanford)

Utah (3): Jackson Barton (2014), Jeremiah Poutasi (2012), Hiva Lutui (2012)

Who am I missing?

Also, FWIW I agree with Chris B. on this one. I’d much rather have 4- and 5-star athletes than NR and 2-star. I’m glad BYU will have at least 10 4-star athletes on the field this season. Go Cougs!

Old But Not Stupid
Moorpark, CA

skitter,

Paraphrasing Chris B: 'They keep believing a team full of good kids that try hard even though they aren't as athletic will magically come together under "leadership" ...with good "execution"... and "band" together...'

This occurs more often than one might think: Indiana HS basketball 1954; San Antonio Spurs 2014; Fillmore (CA) HS 1961.

The Fillmore team with zero 'star' players that measured 6'0", 6'0", 5'11", 5'10", and 5'9" came from 6 pts down in final 6 seconds [with no 3 pt shot] to tie and win in overtime. The losing team? St. John Vianney that ranged from a 4* 6'6" center [36 pts and 17 rebs!] down to a 3* 6'1" point guard.

How did this happen? Disciplined execution of good fundamentals, excellent coaching, mental toughness, and 7-8 young men (a band of brothers?) who did not care who got the credit.

I guess one has to experience such an event to comprehend fully, but I know that 'stars' are only one indicator out of several key elements of athletic success.

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

old but not stupid,

You're comparing the Spurs to a team full of nobody 2 stars?

LOL.

They have at least Hall of Famers on their team.

LOL! Ya, you'd like to believe byU is going to the be San Antonion Spurs of college football!

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

correction: The have at least "three" Hall of famers - I left out the three. My apologies

Old but not stupid - keep telling yourself byu is like that!

Old But Not Stupid
Moorpark, CA

Chris-

"You're comparing the Spurs to a team full of nobody 2 stars?"

You [Chris] made that comparison. They were an example of so-called lesser talent (yeah see rebuttal point below) beating Miami with their "big three." LOL

"They have at least Hall of Famers on their team."

Yes,some of the SA players will be in the Hall of Fame. However, they are OLD and have LOST several steps, but by playing Greg Popovich (former coach at Pomona College!) basketball and EXECUTING the fundamentals (passing, rebounding, shot selection, and team defense), they totally outclassed Miami with a beat down of the great LeBron, et.al. LOL

"Ya, you'd like to believe byU is going to the be San Antonion Spurs of college football!"

First of all I'm a UCLA Bruin, so I don't need or like to believe anything about BYU or even your weak ol' uties. LOL

So once again you attack with false straw men by twisting my words and meaning with that so important "logic" with which only you folks in the crimson crew are impressed.

I think you fail, once again! Come back tomorrow after a good night's rest.

Sendero1
Mesa, AZ

@Chris B:

A two-part response for you, as it just won’t fit into the word limit.

I’d agree that logic’s not always popular on the recruiting front, especially outside of the Top-25. That includes Provo, and Salt Lake City as well. Want to see how far away both our programs are from seriously competing for talent on the national level? Here’s the current 247 composite team rankings for 2015 commitments:

(Sorry! Link DELETED by moderator requirement, check the 247 college recruiting site, subheading “2015 Team Rankings” dated 8/20/14)

Check out the midpoint for SEC teams, LSU at the moment, currently #7 in that conference: 2 5-stars, 6 4-stars, and 6 3-star recruits. And that’s the SEC midpoint! Florida State? 1, 10, and 7, respectively. Don’t bother asking about 2-stars – not surprisingly, there aren’t any. Penn State? 0, 12, and 7. Not bad for a program written off for dead two years ago. All of these programs, of course, are in the Top 25 in recruiting. And not surprisingly, that’s the level at which they play most of the time.

(Continued Below)

Sendero1
Mesa, AZ

@Chris B:

(Continued From Above)

And now how are our two schools doing? BYU is ranked #62 (0, 0, 11) – actually a modest improvement, but at the bottom of “Power 5”-level recruiting (Only 65 power programs!) -- and Utah is #67 (0, 0, 10) – continuing a deathbed flatline after the fleeting Pac12 recruiting honeymoon died two seasons ago. Both have been shut out of the Top-5 recruits in the state, and both will be fortunate to sign two of the top 10. Pitiful – HS players in the state are voting with their feet, a bad sign for both the Y and the U. Tell me, Chris, how either program hopes to play Top-25 ball while recruiting mid-60s level talent year in and year out? The disconnect is absurd, and over time, impossible. So while as a loyal alum I’ll always cheer for the Y, I’m going to throw my “Baloney” flag every time I see one of these flagrantly stupid, idiotic recruiting comments – and you should do the same, as you have the exact same problem on The Hill. Until the recruiting takes an order-of-magnitude step forward, neither program can reasonably hope to move beyond mediocrity. Good luck – you will need it, as will we.

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