This is just the beginning of the new college football landscape. There is
certain to be other state owned schools that are forced to drop their football
programs that are currently operating in the red. Last report i saw showed 23-25
division 1 schools in the nation that actually operate in the black. Welcome to
the new college football era !
This will be the state of many Universities' athletic programs. It's
going to get harder and harder to compete with the big boys when the money just
Pretty sad that a university has to eliminate sports and then a team like Utah
can no longer go to bowl games.
Once again Chris comments before he thinks. State owned schools football teams
that operate in the red as well as consistently finish in the bottom of their
conference are going to be the first real casualties to this new football era.
What a great day to be a fan of a private school that has the resources to call
its own shots !
Christy,The sky isn't falling for BYU. BYU has a large international
following and plenty of money to do what it wants.I look forward to your
enthusiastic posts as your team loses every week.LOL
taylormade,Every power 5 conference and its presidents and AD's
are supportive of the continued changes to give the P5 schools more autonomy and
to further separate from the mid majors.If there was reason for the
power conference teams to worry - we'd be hearing it. Instead, the Power 5
have been PUSHING for these changes. Every single P5 program is going to be just
What a sad day for Norm Chow.Unfortunately he's fallen a long
way from his glory days at BYU and in the pros.Good luck, Coach!
"Every single P5 program is going to be just fine!"No their
not. Schools have been whittling away at who is "in" and who is
"out" The P6 got rid of the Big East. Next, get rid of all the "mid
majors" and you have 65ish teams who are equal in every way? Nope. Then the
next model is to push out any team that isn't producing enough. Eventually,
you have one 24 team conference consisting of Florida State, USC, Oregon, Texas,
Oklahoma, Ohio State, Michigan, and a handful of others at the top. The
Utah's, Iowa's, Kansas' of college football will then be crying
their eyes out.
Chris, This is going to be simple economics moving forward. Now be honest
with me, would you invest your hard earned money in a business that operates in
the red ?
Cougarsundevil,Thanks so much for explaining it in simple terms black and
@CougarSunDevilWishful thinking. WSU, Utah, OSU...all recieve $22
million for football, from TV rights alone. Keeping wishing for Utahs demise; I
know that's your #1 hope in life. Pretty sad when you think about it! Also
pretty cool how you can predict the future; simply amazing!
taylormade,Silly taylormade1, are you really suggesting that any
program that operates in the red is going to cease to exist simply because the
Power conferences are getting more power? There is no logic in that argument.
Many programs have existed in the red and they continue to exist right? Why
haven't they disappeared already if your logic is anything in the red will
cease to exist?Even some big time programs like Florida and Penn
State operate in the red. Are you really claiming those programs will cease to
exist soon because they lose money?You don't understand college
football do you?
Hawaii's defecit is projected to be $1.5 million next year. Cost for teams
to come play at Hawaii is $1.5 million. That's the killer for Hawaii. To
group everyone else in this unique sitiatiion is pretty stupid. To act as if the
Utah, WSU, Iowa, Kentucky,.. etc; are going to get squeezed out is even more
stupid. It's actually wishful thinking on the part of an arrogant fan base
who's on the outside looking in.
Chris BSalt Lake City, UT"Instead, the Power 5 have been
PUSHING for these changes." They better watch out; greed is gonna kill
'em."Every single P5 program is going to be just fine!"
Except for the perennial bottom feeders and cannon fodder.While the
P5 appear to be "printing" money, schools like the U will not have
enough without public taxes and bonds to renovate (i.e., redo) Rice-Eccles. When
that happens the smart Utahns will grab their pitch forks and converge on
SLC.The other issue is that with the failure of the U.S. dollar
(currently in progress), all that "money" ain't gonna be worth much
P5 conferences have 65 teams, how many of those teams operate in the red? Just
over 50! With the coming changes there will be more red ink and some
P5 schools will feel the financial pressure to keep up. The only way they will
be able to continue is by booster donations and some won't make it!
Chris, Where in my comments did i say the "U" ?
Chris BSalt Lake City, UTtaylormade, "You don't
understand college football do you?"I have to say that
taylormade understands football better than you understand government
finance.Running in the RED is not the smart thing to do; it's
actually the DUMB thing to do. Yet, you wear it as a badge of courage or honor.
No wonder our profligate nation is failing.You won't be
"borrowing it from ourselves," you (including the Floridas and Penn
States in the world) are "borrowing" it ultimately from the taxpayers,
who I hope wise up and soon.
Chris, Talk about silly, you are really not putting the U in the same
category as Florida and Penn State are you? Those teams have a rich history and
a storied football program just like our team down south !
taylomade,You are the one suggesting something operating in the red
will cease to exist soon. Using that "logic" every football program
that has operated in the red for a few years should not exist today right?Well, there are many big time programs that have operated in the red for
a long time - and still doing very well!
@spokane uteGood grief that was a thoughtless post considering there
are dozens of posts every single day on here from utah "fans" predicting
the demise of BYU athletics. Yet somehow none of those gets your ire, instead
someone points out the much more real scenario of a losing athletic program like
utah that not only loses games but also loses money, BY THE MILLIONS, perhaps
not being in the hunky dory glory seat you utah "fans" fantasize that
they are in and you melt down over it.LOL!
Fates are being decided before a ball is even snapped. Football is a game that
is to be contested on the gridiron, not in some board room by a bunch of money
grubbing stuffed shirts. This is grounds for an Anti Trust suit. College football is being destroyed. Way to go P5.
It's their punishment for saying they won't schedule us and for not
releasing the one player to transfer to us.
My banker years ago told me, debt is not equity.The PAC 12,
according to a May 2014 article, produced $335,000,000 (million) in Fiscal year
2013 and reported $336,000,000 (million) in expenses for the same fiscal year.
In fairness, the Pac 12 network spent about 10% or $31,000,000 on a new home
office and upstart costs for the PAC 12 network. Each member school received
just over $19,000,000 except for utah which received $10,200,000.The
member schools have to date over $1,000,000,000 (billion) in construction
projects with 90% financed by debt instruments. Utah spent
$32,000,000 on their new FB facility and from an article in May 2013 from the
paper up north only half was gifted and the other half is debt instrument
funding based on future league revenue projections. The basketball practice
facility has a price tag of $24,000,000 and that does not include the stadium
plans or a host of other athletic venues such as the tennis facility. To me, this gross debt enslavement of the taxpayers based solely on projected
revenue is beyond irresponsible and borders criminal.
I think the point here is be careful what you wish for. This is not a new idea
from just college football. People seeking for money and power have been around
since the beginning of time. Funny thing is, they don't like to share
either. You're kidding yourself if you think 65 is the end. I've been
saying that all along (just not on these boards). The big programs with big
dollars want to finish off the non P5 first, then they will turn to house
cleaning. It it just common sense. I don't think everyone will stop playing
football though. I just think we will eventually be back where we started, minus
20 or so teams. Problem is, there aren't enough fans to pay for everything
once you whittle it down, so that will come crashing down too. This is just
plain stupid, no matter who you cheer for.
Continued:Anyone, who has had to live on a real budget, knows that
debt is not equity and future projections do not guarantee results. Too many people have been fed the line that debt is good and I can play now
and pay later. I have a renter who is in school at SLCC and every semester I get
a check from him for 4 months rent. Guess where it comes from? Yup, from student
loans and grant money. Our u friends, like chris b who continually
shout that utah is guaranteed immunity from ever being kicked to the curb are
living in a fantasy dream world. Our debt driven society can't
continue forever, the piper will call and u will be homeless.
I think it is inevitable that we will end up with "major league" college
football, and then lower division football. As an Aggie, I have no problem with
USU playing in a "minor" league composed of equals. It is ridiculous to
think a relatively small state school in a rural setting can be competitive with
larger programs. Fans of the Ivy League enjoy their games just as much as the
PAC 12 fans do..just a different level of competition. And every so often, the
minor league team surprises the major league team (ala USU beating Utah several
years ago). But I do not see football at USU going away, the sport is too much
a part of our college experience culture.
I remember the old days of BYU flying out there and going to the beach and
getting all washed out and then getting blown out during the game. Adjusting to
the travel - the humidity - the beach etc... was such a HUGE advantage. Hawaii
would rarely win on the road. I think college football is changing dramatically
and it feels like teams are scrambling to see if they can survive. BYU will
probably also see its days numbered in football at least. Maybe Lavell Edwards
stadium can be turned into a scout camp or something.
@ Chris B and Spokane Ute:What you guys and undoubtedly some other
Ute fans fail to realize is that there are varying degrees of operating in the
red. Obviously, a team $5,000,000 in the red is in a lot worse shape than a team
operating at $5,000 in the red. The first mentioned school will be forced to
drop their sports programs a lot sooner than the other. Another
thing you are not considering is that school budgets are getting tighter and
tighter. As people allow their student loans to go unpaid (and that's a
quickly growing segment) in our Obama-level economy, new student loans will be
more difficult to obtain. Fewer student loans means less revenue for colleges.
Less money equates to more budgets in the red. It's a
reasonable assumption that more mid-major programs will get hurt before P-5
programs will. But once the mid-majors have taken their lumps, the next to be
filtered out will be P-5 programs that play like mid-majors. And unless
something changes very soon, Utah will be included in that group, as will most
other lowest tier conference teams.
First of all I think some of the Ute fans think that "running in the
red" is a good thing, all there players run around in red all the time. Secondly, the reality of the likely changes is that there will be a
dramatic increase in expense. Without an corresponding increase in revenue the
teams in the black could go red and the teams in red will go "redder."
Where will this increase in revenue come from? For Utah, I expect
that the conference will want to keep teams around. It will likely not be good,
in the playoff era, to have too much parity. You will need to have teams that
are not as challenging as the top tier. Schools like Oregon,
Washington, USC and UCLA won't want to complete with Utah and Colorado for
athletes but they will want the "in conference" wins. I don't
predict the demise of Utah football.The Utah Jazz are a benefit to
the NBA, why? So the top teams can beat up on them. Don't be fooled into
thinking they have a shot unless they dig deeper into their own pockets. Same
for Utah and BYU in the future.
G-Day-M8:Excellent post that describes the problem in our country as well
as CFB these days. Debt is undoubtedly not equity but don't tell that to
fans like Chris B who think they know the financial implications of the future
of CFB but obviously have no concept of economics (macro or micro). Anyone who
believes any business entity can continue to exist while bathing in red ink year
after year obviously has no idea about finance. Yes the government will
subsidize or student fees can be raised, but eventually the taxpayer and
students will say "no more" and that will be it. Smart
companies only spend based on assets and capital. The minute they start
borrowing against future projections is when their stocks start falling and they
are closing doors and laying people off. Thank goodness the LDS church functions
on a zero debt financial platform. BYU will be fine, and some have speculated
that the current landscape of greater autonomy and benefits to athletes actually
favors BYUs business model.
I'm all in on the BYU Idaho model and wish all universities and colleges
would follow suit. Consider the problems that would be eliminated.
Hawaii is obviously in a unique situation because of travel costs. They have to
travel farther than any other team for EVERY road game. Those costs are huge.
Add in the subsidies they have to offer to get teams to travel to play them? Of
course they are going to have trouble paying for that.Thus, nobody
with a brain will use Hawaii as an example of what could happen to any other
football program. When teams on the mainland fold because of costs, then you
can have your "doomsday" model.Re: tinplatterWell
said. I, too, will continue to support my team no matter what level of college
football they play.
Spokane UteSorry, bro, gotta call you out on this one, but as others
already have, I'll be nice about it. As pointned out, numerous posters of
the red persuasion are predicting at least that BYU falls out of the arms race,
if not completely out of collegiate athletics. You seem to have only seen the
flip side of this bickering banter.Now my experience with you has
been that you are extremely reasonable, until someone gets your goat. Probably
why I like you so much, because I can relate.So, no one can predict
the future with certainty, but what I think is obvious is that, even with the
infusion of a full revenue share of PAC TV money, when the big boys up the anti,
the net result will look very much the same.The fundamentel question
has been asked (but not answered) by Chris B: how long will universities
continue to operate in the red before having to declare a state of emergency?
Rather than following the model of college basketball, that is wildly successful
in both popularity and financially and promotes equal opportunity.The P5s are destroying college football with their elitism.
Time for the tax payers to weigh in. BYU and the church have already taken steps
to curb expenses. Athletics play an important role in education, just like music
and art and other cultural programs. When athletes generate enough to cover the
cost of their own education, including the cost of maintaining facilities and
the expense of the million dollar salaries paid out to coaches then they can
talk about being paid. As for the role of the P5 conferences closing down the
smaller schools, you need look no farther than the NFLand AFL to see what greed
BYU dropping football at the very least? I think people who think that this
has never been discussed at the highest levels at 47 E. So. Temple are more than
just naive. While the BYU program has a huge level of booster support advantage
over the two other FBS level programs, the league alignment questions and
associated stability could erode this in the years ahead. But some unintended
consequences could come if BYU were to drop their football program or athletics
in general that would never achieve any gains at established state school
sponsored programs at Utah and Utah State. First of all UVU would start a
program to fill the Utah County void and given the enrollment and alumni
demographics this would be Boise State burying Idaho all over again in a shorter
time frame. Secondly with NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell asking media partners
for more non-Sunday inventory, Salt Lake City would in all likelihood in that
vacuum end up with an expansion or relocated NFL team, which would dilute any
gains Utah made by going to the Pac-12 (notice Arizona State after the Cardinals
arrived in 1988).
I think this the beginning of the end for some of the non-P5 schools. I think
Byu-Provo will be in trouble when the mandatory P5 vs P5 scheduling legislation
gets submitted and passed leaving Byu-Provo only to play teams from the Group of
Five conferences because they'll get dropped by everyone in the major
conferences. That will hurt their season ticket sales and there won't be
an ESPN contract anymore. Would the brethren shut the program down if it became
more irrelevant than it already is? Questions to ponder.
The real issue is being ignored. How many players for BYU, USU, U of U are
Hawaii natives. Or from Tonga, Samoa etc. Players are leaving the islands to
play on the mainland. There may be several reasons. They may be LDS and want
to play for BYU. Then there is media coverage. What time zone Hawaii in? What
time is it on the east coast when Hawaii plays a home game. I hope Football
survives at Hawaii. Great experience for players to travel and have a fun time.
Y Grad / Y Dad"how long will universities continue to operate in the
red before having to declare a state of emergency?"You act as if
"operating in the red" is suddenly a new thing. An "emergency"
brought to light by P5 autonomy. Many programs have been red for years and
years.So why keep at it? BYU isn't unique; sports is a
marketing tool for all schools. Athletics is the most visible fund-raising tool
for universities, even down at division 2 and 3. Who knows how much further in
the red those schools would be without athletics. Without athletics, some
schools which are in the black today, may fall into the red.This
talking point is only recently of great interest to Cougar fans, probably
because of a string of snubs by P5 programs. They need something to hang their
hat on so they found "operating in the black". Hopefully, they'll
soon realize how BORING it is to talk about athletics economics, and move on to
something else. The season can't start soon enough.
Sooner Ute:Operating in the red is certainly not a new thing, but paying
players stipends, providing medical insurance even after graduation, guaranteed
scholarships regardless of production, and having to pay players for using their
name and likeness instead of pocketing that revenue ARE new things. Anyone who
doesn't believe this will have financial repercussions on those programs
that aren't the big money makers is truly naive. We just don't know
what all the unintended consequences will be, and that is, or should be, a
little unnerving to lesser programs both in and outside the P5. I don't
think your Sooners have anything to worry about, but Utah may face some
financial struggles trying to keep pace with the richer, more elite programs in
The way Hawaii has been playing the last few years, would anyone notice?
Yes, what a terrible problem to have up on The Hill.$20M - $30M or
more a year. Every year. Recruiting for football and basketball on
the rise, with notable improvement in depth, speed, and skill position skill
sets. Terrible. Just terrible.And of course no
operational or financial skills to manage the windfall."The sky
is falling --- the sky is falling!!!" Sure is tough to be in
the P5, guess The U will just have to suffer through it!!--- But you
know, it's sooooo Great to be a Ute!!! :)
@spokane uteWhat Utah fans fail to consider with their arrogant
"we're on the inside" chest pounding, is that when the big boys
like Texas, USC, Alabama and the like are finished marginalizing the non-P5s,
they may very well decide that the P5 bottom dwellers like Utah are no longer
needed.It's not out of the realm of possibility that a
"super conference" of 32 elite college teams is their end goal. Which
teams would make the final cut is still debatable, but what's not debatable
is where that would leave teams like Utah, Indiana and Vanderbilt.U
can bury your head in the sand and pretend that's not a realistic
possibility, but the truth is, you're just as vulnerable as the non-P5s to
being left on the outside looking in, you will simply take a little longer to
SoonerUteAll of this red and black is based solely on speculation
that revenues will continue beyond anyones ability to accurately forecast. It appears to me that a select few men are conspiring to monopolize
college football for their own selfish gain and they have a product that is
driven by the appetites and emotions of the masses. If/when many of
the major talking points of P5 autonomy are implemented, the cost of doing
business will climb significantly. The extra costs alone will eat up more than
enough of the money each school receives from the mega media deals and they will
be living from paycheck to paycheck. Combine that with the extraordinary debt
that many schools are incurring and you have a looming disaster. The real financial success of the new P5 model is all based on
"projected" revenue, stretching in most conferences 10 plus years. The
pot is looking pretty full today but what about tomorrow or next year?
First they came…" is a poem attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller
(1892–1984) about the inactivity of German intellectuals following the
Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after
group.When the Nazis came for the communists,I remained
silent;I was not a communist. When they locked up the social
democrats,I remained silent;I was not a social democrat.When they came for the trade unionists,I did not speak out;I was
not a trade unionist.When they came for the Jews,I remained
silent;I was not a Jew.When they came for me,there was
no one left to speak out.---------------College football
is a game, but there are still lessons to be learned from history.While Utah fans are gloating about the fact that Utah "currently" is
on the "inside looking out", they may want to consider what the college
football elites will do with the P5 non-elites, once they've eliminated the
DrUteThe sky may indeed be falling if Utah doesn't start
addressing their $400+ million maintenance backlog.While Utah is
adding shiny new athletic facilities, and taking on massive debt to pay for
them, their classroom buildings are falling apart.
Why would anyone brag about being the Kansas of the Pac-12?
So, when the few power P5 (PP5) schools have purged the Weak 5 (W5) and
Independents (I4) and then the lowly P5 schools, exactly who would the PP5 play?
I mean let's do the math:Let's say that there are 5 PP5 per
conference that is 25 teams. So, therefore, we will be left with 25 PP5 teams
to play each other (-65) = 40 P5 teams to play each other. W5+I4 = WI9 to...Seriously? You actually believe that the P5 are going to cannabalize
themselves out of existence? What is happening now is similar to what happened
in 1978 (that too was supposed to kill college football). The end game is
known, here is my prediction: P5 schools will play 11 P5 games per year and one
WI9 game per year. No more Div-1AA games allowed.
@BlueCougI will believe it when I see it. I totally disagree though;
it's not going to happen during my life time. I highly doubt BYU fans would
take this postion if they were in the BIG 12. It's merely hoping for the
demise of your rival. Kinda sad, really. @81UteAgreed.
You are spot on!
YGrad/YDadI guess we will somewhat agree to disagree. I do believe
that colleges need to trim the budget in many, many ways. Look at the cost of
tuition; Yikes. My daughter is starting at WSU this year; $25K/year for
everything. However, I totally disagree with the notion that the major
university (power house football programs) are going to reduce down to 20-25.
Like others have questioned; who would they play? imagine the travel cost? I
just don't see it happening. Utah is a good fit and belongs in the PAC 12.
Just like WSU, Colorado, Oregon State and Arizona are. As always; I
appreciate your civil response. You come across as a very level headed and good
guy. I hope all is well with you and yours; Take Care my Man!
Cougsndawgs, you're mixing a couple of issues. A legal issue like paying
players for their name and likeness affects all schools, regardless of P5
autonomy. Mercy on BYU if the court decision means they owe back wages for
Jimmer jerseys.Stipends, medical insurance, guaranteed scholarships
are optional items considered for competitive advantages in recruiting.
Optional is the key word. You say "struggle to keep up", but that
happens today! A player recruited by USC and Utah is already a tough get for
Utah. Money won't change that. It will simply become a choice of "X
money from USC; Y money from Utah. Bench time at USC; playing time at
Utah".With optional spending, the big-money teams risk
overspending (as Texas competes with Alabama, for example). The smaller-money
schools will be more measured about their spending. They won't get into a
bidding war. They don't today, they won't tomorrow.By no
means is this the doom and gloom "end of college football". FCS
National Champion North Dakota State will keep taking the field no matter what
FBS champion Florida State decides to spend.
re: taylormade1"This is going to be simple economics moving
forward. Now be honest with me, would you invest your hard earned money in a
business that operates in the red ?"With that logic no one
should pay taxes?
re: SEC Rules"Fates are being decided before a ball is even
snapped. Football is a game that is to be contested on the gridiron, not in some
board room by a bunch of money grubbing stuffed shirts."This is
what happens when the market is over-saturated w/ J.D.'s and M.B.A.'s.
@drute"Recruiting for football and basketball on the rise, with
notable improvement in depth, speed, and skill position skill sets."That is demonstrably false. In fact utah's football recruiting has
declined each of the last several years and is currently sitting ranked in the
80's by both Scout and even the utah homers site Rivals. If even your homer
site ranks you in the 80's then you are certainly not getting anything
worth bragging about.
to BlueCoug...What's funny is the comical spinning of cougar
fans about how byu is in a better position. Mucho ironic when fans
of a religious institution brag about fiscal well being. Don't you think?
to SoonerUteExcellent points. We may see a Moneyball approach used
by "smaller" P5 schools
Spokane UteOf course, you'll believe it when you see, but just
because it hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it hasn't already
been discussed amongst the elites of college football.-------------81UteAll you have to do is look at
what's happening in the Big 12; why should the conference expand when 10
teams can divide the same revenue as they'd get with 12 teams?Take that example to another level.Why would the elite teams want
to continue sharing the pie with 65 teams, if they could divide the same pie
amongst 32 or even 24 teams?Why would USC, UCLA, Oregon, and
Stanford continue sharing the PAC 12 pie with Utah, Colorado, and Washington St,
if they could divide the same size pie 4 ways, instead of 12?Utah
fans are extremely naive if they think that those kinds of discussions amongst
the elites aren't already going on behind closed doors.
GK Willington said:With that logic no one should pay taxes?-----Nicely done; very sad; but very, very true!
SoonerUte:Thanks for the civil and thoughtful response. I do agree with
you on many points. I think in the end what BYU fans are trying to point out to
ute fans is that there WILL be further separation in CFB even between the P5
programs. How long will USC be ok sharing equally with Utah? How long will Ohio
State and Texas be ok sharing equally with Rutgers and Iowa State? I think we
will all see that equal revenue sharing won't work as the Big Dogs clamour
for more money to fill their exorbitant budgets.As for scheduling
between 30-32 teams, 81Ute is wrong. The NFL does it every year and is still the
highest rated sport in America.Answer us honestly...are Utah fans ok
with trying to compete against programs they will never match in spending,
revenue, or recruiting, relegating them to mid-lower tier status the rest of
their CFB existence? It's a legit question that I'm sure many ute fans
will answer with a yes...for now. How about 10 years from now? Losing gets old
regardless what league you're in.
Mister J"Mucho ironic when fans of a religious institution brag
about fiscal well being. Don't you think?"I don't see
anything "ironic" about fans of an institution that prides itself on
fiscal responsibility reminding fans of an institution whose program runs in the
red, that serious trouble lies ahead if they don't change their
free-spending habits.Utah has a $400+ million maintenance backlog,
yet they're frivolously spending money that they don't have and
running up huge debts based on a gravy train of money that is far from
re: deductive reasoning"Why would USC, UCLA, Oregon, and
Stanford continue sharing the PAC 12 pie with Utah, Colorado, and Washington St,
if they could divide the same size pie 4 ways, instead of 12?Utah
fans are extremely naive if they think that those kinds of discussions amongst
the elites aren't already going on behind closed doors."Stanford wasn't always elite. Notre Dame was the juggernaut at one point.
Sports, like everything else, is cyclical. Even if the so called
elites fracture further; that would make Utah a tier 2 and byu a tier 3.
@Deductive resoningConversely, what evidence do you have that any
such discussions have taken place? Please provide any information that backs up
your position. Speculation and wishful thinking is all that you have to go on.
That and 75 cents, will get you a Deseret News, newspaper. CougsandDawgsYou are speculating that Utah will be losing 10 years
from now. Washington state was horrible 3-4 years ago, yet they went to the Rose
Bowl in 1999. Not to mention that Leech has them on the upswing. These things go
in cycles. Look no further than Oregon, UCLA, and Tennessee for that matter.
Wally WestWhat makes you think that Utah wouldn't drop to tier
3 as soon as the big boys of the PAC 12 deserted them?The ONLY thing
the Utes have going for them is their PAC 12 membership.If the gravy
train of money that the PAC 12 gets because of USC and UCLA were to shrink or
dry up, the Utes wouldn't even be able to pay the bills for their new
Spokane UteRemind us the first, last, or any time the Utes were top
dogs of a P5 conference; the Utes have only been able to win one MWC
championship under Whittingham's watch.Only six WAC/MWC
championships in almost 50 years doesn't say much for Utah's historic
chances of ever being able to break into the upper echelon of the PAC 12, even
for a season or two.
Good for Utah! In the catbird seat with their $20 million from TV revenues. What
happens when the networks lose money on those contracts? They start showing only
the "big" games from the "major teams". Utah, WSU et al will be
lucky to get a game one a year. And, by the way, $20 million won't go as
far when U have to compete with USC for jocks. They'll be able to outbid
Utah every time.Sadly, most fans can't see the house of cards
the P5 is building. It'll crash down. It is just a monopolistic ploy to
corner the TV market for 65 teams. The antitrust suits will be filed soon.As for the unwashed, why not set up a real tournament? Give competition
Wally:We aren't talking about the winningest programs in the P5,
we're also talking about the biggest earners with the biggest fanbases and
biggest budgets. The separation among P5 programs will happen because of...wait
for it...money! The same reason separation will occur now. Whether Michigan goes
3-9 or 9-3, they will always be elite because of money (fanbase, endowment,
boosters, etc).SpokaneUte:WSU went to the Rose Bowl 15 years
ago. 15 years ago there wasn't even close to the amount of money,
expansion, and one-upmanship that you see today. WSU will not be returning to
the Rose Bowl any time soon, if ever under the current circumstances.
You're honestly going to compare fiscal and competitive issues from 1999
with the current state of things? Face it...USC & UCLA will always be elite
in the PAC because of MONEY, not because they are winning championships. Utah
will never be elite because they can't compare when it comes to how much
money they bring to the table. It will be MONEY that further separates the haves
from have-nots in the future.
Spokane UteIt's laughable how you're okay with Utah fans
speculating endlessly about the possible demise of BYU football, yet when BYU
fans speculate about the possible demise of Utah football, you instantly demand
proof.LOL at your inconsistency!
@CougarsandDawgsYou do realize that PAC 12 schools split the future
TV revenue equally right? USC, UCLA, Utah and WSU each get $22+ mill/year.
I'm sure you also realize that bowl revenue is shared. You make is sound as
if Cal Berkley will be going away too. You act as if USC get's $40 mill per
year; with WSU get's $4. Way off. I never compared fisal compensation now
to 15 years ago now did I? I merely pointed out that winning goes in cycles;
just as Wally West point out. There's no need to use capital letters; I
certainly understand the term "money"; even though I never seem to have
enough of it. TroytownHow dare I ask for facts and
statistics to back up a position. Talk about LOL. The fact that BYU isn't
in a P5 conference and will receive less revenue from the new playoff then
Nevada will speaks for itself. If you would like to discuss TV or bowl revenue
between Utah and BYU I'm open to the conversation. Care to compare the two?
Cougsndawgs "Answer us honestly...are Utah fans ok with trying to
compete..."I believe Utah fans are comfortable trying to compete
against bigger programs. Ute fans enjoy being the underdog. Being an underdog
has great payoff when you reach the final four, or upset Alabama in the Sugar
Bowl, or knock off Stanford at home. BYU fans are the complete
opposite, I believe. They expect winning, and prefer to be in situations where
winning is likely. Listening to a BYU fan, one would think that the football
program was founded in 1972 with LaVell Edwards as their first coach. Pre-1972
is rarely referred to, like the Crowton years. Years of dominating
WAC football and a NC set the expectation to "always win". As much as a
BYU fan wants to be included in a P5 conference, in the end they would hate it.
As you say, years of losing would get old, and BYU fans wouldn't react well
to that.It is good for the state that a program got into the P5
level. BYU better than Utah? Debate that all day. But there is no doubt that
Utah fans have the patient underdog mentality the P5 road requires.
SoonerUteListening to Utah fans, you'd think the program was
founded in 2004 with Urban Meyer. Pre-2004 is rarely referred to, like the WAC
years.Years of being nothing but a WAC bottom feeder set the
expectation that constantly being beaten like a drum, with losing, bowl less
seasons, is fine as long as you can occasionally beat BYU.It's
obvious why Utah fans have the patient underdog mentality; the Utes haven't
been THE top dog in any conference that any of them actually remembers.
SpokaneUte:Yes, of course I know that revenue is shared equally.
That's my point...how long will USC & UCLA be ok with that when they
and everyone else knows they're worth more than Utah and Colorado? The Big
Dogs will not be ok with that in the future as budgets and athletes'
benefits become greater burdens on the university pocket book.I
apologize for using capitals...I did it to help prove my point. And my point to
you and Wally was that winning and cycles aren't the biggest issue
here...it's the money-making, elite programs as I pointed out. It's
the fact that Michigan & ND make just as much money (far more than most)
regardless of whether they go 3-9 or 9-3. With that in mind winning and cycles
becomes a moot point.As for BYU fans wanting wins at all costs that
may be true for some, but not the ones I know. They would prefer being in the
Big 12, but like ute fans they would probably have to realize that winning would
not come as easily or frequently...so I agree with you in that regard.
Oops...my last paragraph was answering SoonerUte. Sorry I get you two mixed up
@CougsandDawgsUCLA and USC will be OK with it for quite a while. The
current $3 Billion, PAC 12 channel contract runs through 2025. Let's
revisit the issue then. 8-)@ SoonerUteAmen Brother.@TroytownI remember 2004 & 2008 very vividly. Still have
a Sugar Bowl Hoddie and DVD. Nice try though. Bowl less seasons? Correct me if
I'm wrong; but hasn't Utah been to a bowl like 10 of the last 12
seasons? Doesn't Utah have one of the longest bowl winning streaks, which
was accomplished in the past 15 years or so? Swing and miss....keeeeep trying!
Spokane Ute"I remember 2004 & 2008 very vividly."Unfortunately you weren't THE top dog; in fact you completely
collapsed after 2004 and limped into 2008 with an embarrassing shut out to
10-loss UNLV.Not exactly the trappings of a top dog in any
conference.btw, Utah didn't even play in consecutive seasons
during their "9-bowl winning streak" and the Utes only played one team
that finished the season ranked in both polls, which makes Utah's bowl
winning streak less of an accomplishment and more of a trivia question, like
which team has the most consecutive seasons without being shut out.
@Solomon LeviI'm quite content with 2008. I realize Utah
didn't get to play a 6-5 Michigan team in the Sugar Bowl; but I'm cool
with stomping an 11-1 Alabama in thier back yard. "Utah
didn't even play in consecutive seasons during their "9-bowl winning
streak""?Hmmm; which season did they sit out? What in the
world are you talking about?
SpokaneUteOf course you're "quite content with 2008",
it's the only season in which the Utes have actually accomplished something
on a national scale against a decent, although, not top 50 schedule.Yet, even then, you still weren't good enough to finish higher than 4th
in race for the Crystal Football National Championship Trophy.---------------During Utah's 9-bowl winning streak, the Utes
didn't even qualify for a bowl in 2000 or 2002.
@ anti BCSThanks for the news flash; nice to know Utah didn't
go to a bowl 14 and 12 years ago. Enlightening. Well, not
really......sheeesh!@ Solomon LeviBYU can't even
win a conference because there not in one, and the Miami Beach Bowl isn't
really a bowl because it's square and red cars drive fast around it...so
there! btw their oppenent won't be ranked but might be trapping. In summary: Utah is pretty dang secure in the PAC 12. Hawaii is projecting a
short fall of $1.5 million next year, and has to pay that same amount to have
teams come play them. A unique, and bad situation; but one that has absolutely
nothing to do Utah. Unless you want if and speculate to the 9th degree, and play
connect the dots; many, many dots. Everyone have a great evening.
Spokane Ute"the Miami Beach Bowl isn't really a bowl
because it's square and red cars drive fast around it..."What are you blabbering about? Are you saying that Utah didn't play in a
real bowl in 2005?It's nice that you're settling into your
role as a less-accomplished version of the Indiana of the PAC 12.Here's betting that BYU wins its next conference championship, before
Utah wins a PAC 12 championship.
@CougarSunDevilThen the next model is to push out any team that
isn't producing enough. Eventually, you have one 24 team conference
consisting of Florida State, USC, Oregon, Texas...----------------So 3 leagues (PAC-12, SEC, Big 10) with 8 teams
each? Not going to happen, no matter how much you wish for Utah to get kicked
out. Do you have ANY creditable source to back your scenario?It's about TV markets so the Big 10 won't be getting rid of teams
like Rutgers (#1 market) or Northwestern (#3), neither is the PAC-12 with
Colorado (#18) and even Utah (#33) anytime soon. Nor is there any
precedence ever of the PAC-12, Big 10, and SEC losing or cutting a team. Could
they? Sure, but the probability is closer to zero.If you are
interested in learning about the subject then see the LA Times, it has a great
article on the subject: "College football's game of conference
realignment is finally ending".
Solomon LeviAlpine, UTSpokane Ute"I remember
2004 & 2008 very vividly."Unfortunately you weren't THE
top dog; in fact you completely collapsed after 2004 and limped into 2008 with
an embarrassing shut out to 10-loss UNLV.Not exactly the trappings
of a top dog in any conference.-----------------2005-2007: * BYU 28-10 (73%)* Utah 24-14 (64%)2008-2011: * Utah 33-6 (85%) (lost to @#6 TCU, @#12 BYU, @#11 Oregon,
#2 TCU, #9 Boise, @#26 ND)* BYU 28-11 (72%) (lost to #11 Nevada, Arizona
(8-5), FSU (7-6), @USU (4-8), @AFA ...)Since losing to UNLV Utah is
49-8 (86%) vs non PAC-12 teams, all losses to AP top 26 teams.
Why do all the Ute fans want to get rid of the mid majors? Why do the P5
conferences want to separate themselves from the mid majors (in football)? No
one argues about this in Basketball. No one complains that Villanova or Gonzaga
should go away because they aren't in a P5. What are the P5 teams worried
about? They will continue to get the majority of TV revenue because the have the
largest fan bases. They will continue to win most non-conference games because
their depth of talent and funding is greater. So what is their motivation? It
seems like the real motivation behind all this is to keep other Football
programs from contending for a championship. Add a playoff. Problem solved. DII
has one.What's stopping it from happening in DI? P5 School Presidents. Why?
They don't want to share the money from the BCS bowl games. This all comes
down to the BCS and money. Have a playoff. Teams that win get money. Why are the
vocal Ute fans on these comment boards so desperate for the mid majors to
disappear? Fear of losing to a mid major?
Uteology:"Nor is there any precedence ever of the PAC-12, Big 10, and
SEC losing or cutting a team. Could they? Sure, but the probability is closer to
zero."You're missing the point by focusing on what
conferences want/will do. Is there precedent for teams leaving conferences for
greener pastures? You bet there is. If the elite programs feel they can walk
away and make the money they deserve without having to share it with the lesser,
"lower wage" programs don't think for a second it won't be
considered. Mark my words, equal revenue sharing will not last for this very
reason. Like Spokane Ute said, it may take until 2025 or even 20+ years to 2035
(though I doubt it will take that long) but the elite programs that make more
money from playing on the tier one networks will not be satisfied with watching
Utah or Colorado get as much as they do. Either equal revenue will go, or the
elite programs will go..."mark it down".
UteologyRegardless of how you slice and dice things, you'll
never be able to rearrange the numbers to avoid the reality that during the
Bronco/Kyle era:AP Top 25 finishesBronco 4 > Kyle 211+ Win SeasonsBronco 3 > Kyle 1Conference
ChampionshipsBronco 2 > Kyle 1Bowl GamesBronco 9
> Kyle 7Overall RecordBronco 82-34 > Kyle 75-39Record Versus PAC 12Bronco 9-9(50%) > Kyle 13-21(38%)If every overall measurement, Bronco has outperformed Kyle.
@CougsndawgsCan you cite one source that agrees with you? It is
about TV revenue and college football is a regional sport. Here's ESPN's top TV college football markets:Source:
"College Football’s Top 25 Highest-Rated Markets: Birmingham, Oklahoma
City & Columbus Top Three in 2011" (ESPN) Albama: No. 1
Birmingham (5.9 rating)Oregon: No. 25 Portland (tied with 2.0 rating)Wisconsin: No. 30 Milwaukee (tied with 1.9 rating)Louisville: No. 32
Louisville (tied with 1.8 rating)USC/UCLA: No. 43 Los Angele's (1.4
rating)Stanford: No. 44 San Francisco (tied with 1.3 rating)What about the fan footprint? BYU is #43, lets see others:The
Pacific-12 plays plenty of good football, but the low avidity of college
football fans in the Western United States means that it’s in the
second-tier as a television product... Washington and Oregon rank outside the
top 40 in terms of their fan footprint.#17 USC#48 FSU#42
Washington#45 Oregon#67 Utah#69 StanfordSource:The Geography of College Football Fans and Realignment ChaosNew York
It would be sad to see Hawaii become the first domino to fall in the
unbelievable wave of greed that is sweeping major college football.
@BlueCougApparently you think BYU's history is 1972-2000 and
2005-Today?MWC Top Dogs: 1. TCU 5 (Rose)2. Utah 4
(Fiesta and Sugar)3. BYU 4 (Bowl Diddly)It's clear who
the top dogs were, the one's that are struggling in real leagues and not
the one that is still begging to get into one.Good luck!
@CougsndawgsLike Spokane Ute said, it may take until 2025 or even
20+ years to 2035 (though I doubt it will take that long) but the elite programs
that make more money from playing on the tier one networks will not be satisfied
with watching Utah or Colorado get as much as they do. Either equal revenue will
go, or the elite programs will go..."mark it down".---------------There is a higher probability that the Big 12 will
expand and invite BYU than what you just described. Wouldn't you agree?
FY 13 Utah was one of the schools showing minimal loss or gain. Why? Cost of
capital expenditures. ie. A new softball complex ($5M), renovated soccer field,
football facility $30M), tennis courts ($2M), basketball facility ($30M),
Huntsman center renovation (6M) ski facility ($.75M) who knows how much more?
And that was receiving 50% PAC-12 shared revenue. This FY revenue is projected
to increase by $20M give or take (I'll take). All the U had to do was
delay one of the projects and they would have shown a profit in the millions!.
Note: I'm not certain how many $ of each project was expended in FY 13.
The point remains Utah could have shown millions in profit if it wasn't
upgrading their athletic facilities also the $ listed were primarily initial
estimates. Actual cost could have been different.
@SportsfanI'm communicating with Solomon Levi Silly! I'll
take that bet; lay down the numbers. It's kind of hard to win a conference
championship; when no conference will let you join.
UteologyApparently you think Utah's football history consists
of 2003 to 2008.Can you cite one significant accomplishment the Utes
had prior to 2003?Prior to 2003, does Utah have even one season in
which the Utes finished in the AP Top 25, won a conference championship, and
played in a bowl?Bronco has had two such seasons since 2006.So in reality, BYU has had more success in the last 8 seasons, than Utah
had in their first 100 seasons.Bronco has also had three 11+ win
seasons since 2006, which is more 11+ win seasons than Utah has had in their
Spokane UteYou're assuming that BYU won't join a
conference AND win a conference championship before Utah wins a PAC 12
UteologyIt's clear, even from your example, that Utah
wasn't THE top dog, that if any one team was THE top dog, it was TCU.BYU had more AP Top 25 finishes, more 11+ win seasons, and just as many
conference championships as Utah; more during the Bronco/Kyle era.
A team like Utah can no longer go to bowl games because they just plain
aren't good enough to go. Meanwhile, BYU continues to qualify year after
year because of they're commitment to the things that made them great. BYU
in Provo will carry sports as long as there are no Sunday Sports which hamper
that tool to get the true energy and spirit out there for people to hear and
feel. BYU makes money on they're athletics, they make other teams money,
and they make bowls money. This is why bowls sign deals with them. Teams that
don't want to lose don't sign deals with them, or multi-game
contracts. It's that simple, other LDS schools will get rid of athletics,
but not the Provo school. At least not until schools are cancelling by the
dozens. This year BYU will go to a bowl game and this will be Whittingham's
last year as head coach at Utah. I hate to say that, but facts are facts. Utah
was never ready to make the jump to the PAC-12, while BYU would do fairly well
in the Big-12 if it was invited.
Uteology:"There is a higher probability that the Big 12 will expand
and invite BYU than what you just described. Wouldn't you agree?"Interesting question. I would answer by saying it depends on time. I
don't think elite programs walking away from equal revenue sharing, or
equal revenue being done away with, or at least modified is an "if"
proposition, I thinks it's a "when" proposition. It may take a
while but equal revenue sharing won't last. I honestly don't have any
source for that, it's my opinion based on what I know about economics.With that being said, I don't think BYU to the Big 12 (or any other
P5) is a "when" not "if" proposition. I think it's more a
percentage proposition. I'd say it's about 50%, 50-50 that BYU gets an
invite...and that will depend on some factors that are outside their control.As for CFB and regional footprint/TV revenue I agree with you. USC &
UCLA have larger footprints, more ratings, and therefore will bring more revenue
from advertisers than teams like Utah & Colorado. I'm not sure where
our disagreement is in that regard...maybe you could clarify?
UteologyYou can post television market studies all you want to, but
that will never change this incontrovertible fact:The bean counters
at ESPN considered BYU sports viewership to be significant enough for ESPN to
sign an 8-year contract to televise BYU sports.BYU's sports
viewership extends far beyond the Wasatch Front, including significant
viewership in Los Angeles, San Francisco, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Washington D.C.,
and other large markets throughout the country.Even though it may be
difficult for the average joe to break out the BYU sports viewership numbers in
each of those markets, ESPN was well aware of the "product" they were
buying when they signed the contract with BYU.There's a reason
ESPN is constantly televising BYU games, even games not played at LES (which are
the only games specifically included in the contract with BYU). It's
because ESPN knows the viewership BYU games attract.Conversely, how
many Utah games has ESPN chosen to broadcast specifically because Utah was
playing in that game?ESPN has already scheduled five BYU games, with
Fox Sports 1 and CBS Sports already scheduled to televise two more.ESPN doesn't have any Utah games scheduled.
BYU is like Notre Dame...a built in national following although Notre
Dames' is huge by comparison. What that has to do with Hawaii dropping
football is not apparent. I am quite certain neither Notre Dame or BYU will be
forced to give up football on the basis of finances.
Well now looky here. Now that ND is dropping BYU from there schedule because of
there ACC ties and the SEC and ACC has shuned TTDS Hawaii is shutting down, it
looks like there's an opening in the MWC for TTDs. Not so bad for a team
looking in. Holmoe is sharping his pencils I know that.
I'd rather see BYU fade away before Hawaii goes!
Sk8terDon't hold your jealous breath waiting for BYU to rejoin
the MWC.BYU will simply continue adding more and more games with PAC
Carson"I'd rather see BYU fade away before Hawaii
goes!"Of course you would; you're just a BYU hater, like a
sizable minority of "Utah fans" who would quickly lose interest in Utah
if BYU faded away.
BlueCougOrem, UTUteologyIt's clear, even from
your example, that Utah wasn't THE top dog, that if any one team was THE
top dog, it was TCU.BYU had more AP Top 25 finishes, more 11+ win
seasons, and just as many conference championships as Utah; more during the
Bronco/Kyle era.----------- Yet, Utah was ranked #10 and
BYU #27 last decade by CBS Sports. So it's clear you are right behind us,
biting our ankles. Just to be clear, Utah made history twice: * First by busting the BCS to lower the top 6 rule to top 12 allowing
teams like Boise State, Hawaii, NIU, and UCF access to BCS bowl games. * Then went on to be ranked the highest ranked mid-major under BCS rules
with 16 AP first place votes by beating 4 ranked teams. Just for giggles, BYU
has not beat 4 ranked teams in 18 years combined.
FACTchequerSalt Lake City, UTUteologyYou can post
television market studies all you want to, but that will never change this
incontrovertible fact:The bean counters at ESPN considered BYU
sports viewership to be significant enough for ESPN to sign an 8-year contract
to televise BYU sports.-------They did the same to Boise
State. Congrats to both programs!@Cougsndawgs Cougar
Nation hoping for the demise of the P5 leagues, while their coach is begging for
a P5 invite. Priceless!
Uteology:I'm not hoping for anyone's demise. I'm an SEC fan
and have always enjoyed watching PAC10/12 football. I'm trying to have a
realistic discussion about the fact that equal revenue sharing won't work
forever. It will either be modified and done away with, or the elite programs
will "take their ball and go home". We already saw what this hubris
looks like when Slive threatened to walk away from the NCAA if the power leagues
didn't get what they want. If you think this is the last separation that
will be sought by CFB elitists I have some beachfront property in Topeka Kansas
I'd like to sell you.Unlike many ute fans who desperately want
BYU to crumble and fall, I wish nothing of the sort for Utah. I think most
honest fans of the rivalry do not want to see the demise of the other program
because it diminishes a passionate rivalry that only makes CFB in Utah more
Utah made history twice:In 2004: by beat three regular season
opponents with winning records, none better than 7-5In 2008: by
getting extremely luck in playing all of their toughest regular season games at
home and catching an Alabama team that never took the Utes seriouslyUnfortunately for U, even with your "history-making" exploits
(something that will be quickly forgotten during the playoff era), you never
impressed the voters enough to finish any closer than 4th in the race for the
Crystal Football National Championship Trophy.Since 2006, BYU has
three Top 15, 11+ win seasons.Since 1894, Utah has two Top 15, 11+ win
seasons.Even during the Bronco/Kyle era, you can't keep up with
BYU.AP Top 25 FinishesBronco 4 > Kyle 2Bronco
has almost as many AP Top 25 finishes since 2006 (4), as Utah has in their
entire history (5).Think about that for awhile.
RE: Uteology"Yet, Utah was ranked #10 and BYU #27 last decade by
CBS Sports. So it's clear you are right behind us, biting our
ankles."You've cited that CBS sports ranking several times
so I tried to google it but couldn't find it. Can you help me out with a
title or something?Incidentally, while search for all-time rankings
I did come across the "all-decade walk-on team" which had two BYU
players (Pitta and Ziggy), and in 2009 ESPN did an all-time prestige ranking
that puts BYU #25 and Utah #43 (both teams were higher than I expected). In 2011
BleacherReport did a top 50 programs of all-time which listed Utah at #45 and
BYU #25.I don't doubt that Utah easily outranked BYU during the
last decade (2004 and 2008 were amazing seasons), I simply want to read the
Uteology, I did just find a 2000s ranking by college football news that lists
Utah at 21 and BYU at 26. They also list the best teams so far in the 2010s and
neither BYU nor Utah made the top 50 teams. USU was there ranked at #30, which
goes to show how much a few good years can do for you. Just FYI the rest of the
decades went as follows2010s: BYU NR, Utah NR2000s: BYU 26,
Utah 211990s: BYU 26, Utah 501980s: BYU 15, Utah NR (top 50)1970s: BYU 38, Utah NR1960s, 50s, 40s: BYU NR, Utah NRAll-time:
BYU 46, Utah 70
@uteology"made history" huh? That implies it was somehow
important and that it means something to college football at large. Nope. Maybe,
jsut maybe, the 2004 year meant something since it was the first time a non bcs
team made a bcs bowl but by the time 2008 rolled around several had done it and
it really was no big deal. Plus no one really cares, or even really remembers,
outside of utah "fans". No one remebers who played who in the orange
bowl that year either. It just doesn't matter and certainly isn't
"history making". LOL at the delusion though.
@ "U"'s litle brotherI quit being jelous oh......at
about the 11th grade. No need for it. I did hold my breath and guess what.
Holmoe has nothing on the table to offer P5 conferences still. After this season
byu is in trouble. Jack!
Sk8ter"After this season BYU is in trouble."Says
who; another jealous, BYU hater?
Discontinuing football for U of H:-- Remembering that most of the local
population are of Japanese ancestry, so finding big bruisers is tough, why not
go with soccer?Discontinuing the entire athletic program at BYU
Hawaii:-- Punishes the students in an attempt use the funds to lure in
more converts. Looks very poor.
It's nice to see that the two-year break from the BYU/Utah game hasn't
tempered BYU/Utah fans ability argue over the Internet. Neither team is going
anywhere, and neither team is going to make leaps and strides above the other
due to many of the reasons people have mentioned. So let's just bring back
the game and enjoy football.
@BobK - what in the world are you talking about? Cutting BYU-I and BYU-H
athletics program is somehow akin to sacrificing animals to expand membership? I
really am at a loss here. Please explain your work.@ Everyone else - Your
team is inferior in every way imaginable. Our team is the best.
Surely, surely, Dr Watson, a university would not put academic needs above
athletics, would it?
It is to bad if they loose football it was a fun trip for most teams.
clearly the U will always operate in the red…i hope they hire a new coach
and pay him $4mm to lose recruits to BYU and Pac12 teams.
I predict within ten years, two-thirds of the universities which have a college
football team will be dropping those teams. At the same time, I
predict within ten years, half of the universities which have an athletic
departments will drop said athletic department. And you can thank
the Power 5 conferences, along with the corrupt NCAA for it.
Norm wanted to be a head coach. Now he am one. Now who can he blame?