There have been instances in Utah that reek of overreach. As one commenter
mentioned, the suspected marijuana grower could have been arrested at work.
There was no apparent reason the WVC police gunned down the young lady, who the
cops suspected of buying drugs and the Branch Davidian Compound in Texas was
completely without merit. David Koresh frequented businesses in town and could
have been arrested there. Janet Reno should have done the "Perp Walk"
People will use any diversion to rob, steal and loot. What you can't earn
by your own sweat of the brow, steal, or if your welfare check is not big
enough, steal. Stealing is still one of the Ten Commandments telling us what we
should not do. So, we need weak people to stand and watch those who
steal, and those honest business people with everything in their financial lives
to lose, while those who have no protection against it but the guns they own,
will suffer. And, if they do shoot someone who is looting their business, make
certain of that person's race. Soon, the guns we own will be
taken away, and we will live in the days of the survival of the fittest; or
Cops are not the National Guard. Don't train or treat them as if they are
Regrettably, the only remaining visible legacy of 9/11 in every American
community is a militarized local and state police force. Salt Lake City and Salt
Lake County are lucky to have to informed, sensitive and strong law enforcement
chiefs, Chris Burbank and Jim Winder could teach several of their piers how to
be effective, local law enforcement. They don't watch too much television
or movies, but instead stay in touch with their communities.
Having them available can create an underlying thought process of looking for an
opportunity to use such equipment. Having said that, when the top law
enforcement officer of the US is constantly thumbing his nose at the
constitution and the rule of law, it's not too far behind when the masses
will take the same attitude. If the president (whose constitutional duty it is
to enforce the law whether he likes it or not) can say, "I don't like
this one, I'm going to act unilaterally and ignore it," then the
citizens he pretends to lead will begin to do the same.
Could someone please help me understand the value of traditional military
camouflage in an urban riot setting? Camo is supposed to disguise soldiers in
trees, bushes and other natural environments, so I would think they would want
to redesign it using shades of gray and black. But it seems to me police on
riot duty would want to be seen, so why use camo at all?Let me make
it clear that I don't support the current trend of police militarization,
but I'm just trying to point out one several inappropriate aspects of the
I'm really disappointed that people can't see what is happening. Urban
black teenagers don't want a strong police force so they can man handle
store owners and take what they want. The black on black crime is the result of
getting police out of the way. Teenage boys who were raised by teenage mothers
have never been disciplined and are not going to take it now. Further
handcuffing our police will only see the crime rates soar. And spread.
If you don't want the police to come down on you like an army, don't
start a riot
seems like a lot of complaining about how 'poorly' Law Enforcement is
handling things now days.. Or how they're doing everything wrong, or how
they're becoming 'too militarized'.. How about giving
suggestions on how they should be handling violent people, or violent groups?
How should cops deal with a well equipped gang with rifles and automatic
weapons?? How should cops deal with domestic terrorists? How should they deal
with someone who is actively killing children at school or killing people at a
local mall? Some of you have said let the National Guard handle it? You want
people with Zero Law Enforcement experience, people who only train for War, to
come in and deal with local crimes? Some of you need to get out of the bubble
you live in and recognize that there are violent people here in Utah, and around
the country that want to kill. And, sometimes, the only way to defeat violence
is with with greater violence.
I've seen numerous comments from past and current military personnel
echoing the same sentiment "The police in Ferguson Missouri have more body
armor and weapons than I did when patrolling Iraq... Afghanistan...
Bosnia..." Several military members commented that they rarely
raised their weapons while on patrol. They were appalled to see the police
pointing sniper rifles at the crowds. If we are going to give the police big
toys, it is vital that we provide the training on properly using these weapons.
The boys in blue have new toys. In my experience when I get a new tool I look
for an excuse to use it.
The sheriff said it would be a "rescue-oriented" vehicle used in
conjunction with the fire department in situations, for instance, where someone
is shooting at people.Shooting people = fighting back against the
cops by shooting at THEM.The police are our domestic 'standing
army'. This must stop immediately!Police do not need sharp
shooters, tanks, apv's, MACHINE GUNS, etc.They have sound cannons
that can disable people if need be (or even kill them if necessary).We the people are in deep doo-doo if we do not abolish all law enforcement and
go back to the intent of the forefathers...
@HIGHLANDER56Well said sir!. We still do not have all the facts of
what happened between the officer and Mr. Brown. Until we know if Mr. Brown
attempted to assault the Police Officer and more details we won't know if
he was justified in using deadly force. However, given the terrorist type
reaction on the part of many citizens in Ferguson, I would want a strong and
well equipped police force to protect me if I lived there. When I saw the video
of the violent manner in which Mr. Brown treated the store clerk in the store he
had just stolen from a few minutes before the unfortunate incident with the
Police, it raised some questions in my mind about how Mr. Brown appeared to be
irresponsible and violent. It appears that many in Ferguson in fact do have a
"hatred of white America, authority, law enforcement, due process of law and
simple adult behavior". In my opinion we need to be responsible citizens and
also expect our Police to act responsibly - but let's get the facts before
we react prematurely.
I suspect that in the last analysis, the Chiefs of Police will do pretty much
what the Mayors tell them to do.We need to be very careful about who
we elect as our Mayors.
Re: YourTwoCents "Obama brought the enemy to our country and now using them
as justification to enact gun laws and militarization of police departments and
calling citizens terrorist. "Are you serious? What gun law law
has the President enacted or even hinted at enacting? Who are the
"enemies" the President has brought to our country? The President has
nothing to do with the "militarization" of local police departments.
Talk to your congressman who authorized excessive military budgets to the point
where excess military equipment is being passed down to local communities who
then have to find ways to try and justify it's use.
My2Cents, what did you mean when you said that "Obama brought the enemy to
our country"? Is he funnelling in so-called terrorists? You seethe with
hatred towards the man. You might also want to review the history of the US
Constitution before sounding off about it. It wasn't written in 1776. It
wasn't even the first founding document of the new country. And it's
not a sacred document, not least because it is doing what it was designed to do
- constantly change to keep up with the times.
If you break the law, you should be arrested. I know the kid may, or may not,
have been killed by this cop without cause. It doesn't mean you have the
right to riot, kidnap, loot or injure others. The officers and police of MO have
every right to arrest these lawbreakers, and should!
When going to school we were told that we have a dress code because clothes help
shape a persons attitude. I now sespect also that military toys help do the
same for police. Give them the tools that a soldier has and they act like
soldiers instead of the peace officers we hire them to be.Most of us
aren't the enemy and we don't deserve to be treated as if we are.
With the growing number of Hispanics in WVC has the city initiated any programs
to recruit Hispanics into the police force. This is what they need to do to
avoid the disconnect between police and community that we see in Ferguson.
"Small Missouri Town" is a misleading descriptor. Ferguson has 21,000
residents, but is part of St. Louis County with 1 million residents, and St.
Louis itself is not part of St. Louis County. Ferguson is best described as a
St. Louis suburb.
Gone are the days when the police were referred to as peace officers. These days
they are well equipped to be so much more and the attitude is abundantly made
visible in Missouri. Just because the law enforcement agency in Utah can be
wonderfully diplomatic and sound quite reasonable about this does not guarantee
that such sentiments are shared across the country. The rest of the "well
equipped" law enforcement agencies in our cities do NOT guarantee to
harboring such a sensible attitude. Don't use 911 as an excuse to target
the U.S. citizenry. It's worn out. We have a constitutional right to
assembly against an abuse of power. That young man was mowed down. Using 911 as
an excuse is just a cop out. No pun intended.
Ogden police in full military gear smashed into a home where a man was suspected
of growing marijuana, and an officer was killed. They knew where the man worked
and could have simply picked him up and then served a warrant to search his
home. But the impulse to behave like action heroes in the movies was too strong.
Police chiefs who endorse this sort of behavior - especially when responding to
non-violent crime - need to be replaced. Remember, the police weren't
responding to unprovoked riots in Ferguson. The citizens were responding to the
unprovoked gunning down of an unarmed teen in the middle of the street in broad
daylight some 30 feet from the officer. Things had broken down long before the
riot gear was broken out. Militarization is a symptom of a police force that has
stopped serving and instead believe that citizens are the problem.
The equipment the police is are allowed to have is not the problem. Its their
mentality. A year or two ago police raided a house of a marijuana grower in
Ogden using a virtual no knock warrant. Suddenly they broke his door down and
came storming into his house. Police said they announced they were the police
but so what? The Hells Angles could have made that same announcement. He then
started shooting at these home invaders and unfortunately a policeman was killed
and he was wounded. I wondered and still do why the police had to use such gun
ho tactics for a simple and peaceful marijuana grower. It was their lack of
propriety as much as anything else that caused this mess.The war on
drugs as it has evolved has become worse than the disease it is meant to cure.
America has more people in prison than per capita than any other country in the
world and what do we have to show for it? The reason I don't use any of
illegal drugs and never have has nothing to do with law enforcement but with
Okay, I'm an ex-cop, I'm also a retired Psychotherapist and am quite
concerned about the military look of some police agencies. At the same token,
what is going on in Missouri is plain and simple a terrorist invasion by a
violent culture who have made no bones about their hatred of white America,
authority, law enforcement, due process of law and simple adult behavior.
It's unfortunate, and probably criminal that we have an Attorney General
who de-facto encourages that behavior, so yeah, if I lived there I'd want
the police to hit back with all they had. Time for us to admit, the real
terrorists are in our country and are not going away.
The fact that our police forces are gearing up with heavy-duty equipment is
proof that the upper echelons know that things are going to get worse and worse,
eventually requiring such force to quell 'disturbances' in the
population when the economy collapses completely because of the greed and abuse
that our elite have bred. The movie that Richardson should have referenced is
"Soylent Green," not "Robocop."
Huffington Post ran an article last year (10/25/13) specifically about the
proliferation of SWAT teams in Ogden, Utah, where they reported:"In Utah, for example, between task forces, sheriff's departments,
police departments, state police and federal agencies, many residents are
covered by a half dozen or more separate SWAT teams."Isn't
it a bit ridiculous for this level of military style policing? We should make
our officers safe, but we shouldn't go to outrageous extremes in the quest
for absolute safety.
They don't need it. If you need military we have the National Guard.
Police should NOT be the military. I'm happy our current chief
feels the way he does, now what about the next one?
I believe Newton's 3 laws of physics apply to emotions. A nice smile or
letting one in front of you in traffic (action) will be met with a smile or a
wave in return (like but opposite reaction.) It seems there are momentum in
emotions as well. It can be between individuals or groups of people, which
includes hate and goodwill. The Ferguson story seems to be hate momentum at its
worst. After having said that, they say if you do not know history, it will
repeat itself. Remember "shock and awe", get tough 3 strikes and your
out, and the war on drugs, it has not resulted in desired results. This is
because of for every get tough (action,) will be met with like but opposite same
push back (reactions.) As you continue with these policies, it will cause a hate
momentum as a result. To solve this problem, you need to change hate to goodwill
to make things work. Though this is like turning a big ship 180, it will take
energy. As for the people not causing problems, you need to reach out to them
(action). This will help turn this hate into goodwill.
When you have a hammer everything starts looking like a nail. This is just one
sign that marks the beginning of the end of our civil society. When the people
can't regulate themselves, as is evident in MO. then the government moves
more toward's tyranny to protect and defend...something.
Militarization is not only in the weapons and equipment they get its the combat
training and attitude adjustment they get that citizen of america are now
targets of opportunity and we are terrorist if we defend our selves from
military police departments. Homeland security is calling the
actions of americans resisting the militarization of our police department as
violence against the government when in fact its all about the revolt and our
Right. To revolt against military sniping people on the streets like they are in
Baghdad or Afghanistan. As the true law and order we american citizens are the
militia who protect and defend against illegal and unconstitutional military
police departments. Obama brought the enemy to our country and now
using them as justification to enact gun laws and militarization of police
departments and calling citizens terrorist. We the people are the law, Obama is
subject to our laws and permissions as long as he obeys and submits to our
rights, freedoms, and liberties. And we have the right to disarm and overthrow
all police department and government including the president terrorist as
granted and declared by the Constitution we voted on and enact 238 years ago.
Yes Robocop sort of predicted all of this but so did the simple but well done
police drama Hill Street Blues when Howard Hunter's character, played by
James B. Sikking, ascertained what was called an urban tank. Of course, the
precinct chief Frank Furillo (Daniel J. Travanti) thought it was way over the
top but now it appears these vehicles are necessary police equipment now.But everyone is sort of late to this issue. Bill Maher on his HBO show
did a whole segment on this. It seems again that the lame main street media is
late again to the party.
It appears that our local law enforcement leaders are suggesting they know how
they would handle a difficult situation in a hypothetical estimate. I wonder
how they would deal with dozens of protestors coming out at night and burning
buildings, looting local businesses and throwing Molotov cocktails? I find it
interesting how these protesters justify theft and destruction of property?
Isn't that sort of pre-judging the outcome of an investigation and
subverting the legal system?