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Comments about ‘Bibles booted from U.S. Navy base guest rooms’

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Published: Tuesday, Aug. 12 2014 4:00 p.m. MDT

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B_Rich
West Valley, UT

In the name of religious freedom, we are eliminating the freedom of religion

Objectified
Richfield, UT

Just another secular, anti-religion policy from the Obama administration who apparently wants to make America a Godless society.

Having Bibles available isn't forcing any particular religion on anyone. Nobody is being forced to read them or convert. Anyone staying in those rooms can completely ignore them if they so choose.

However, taking them out makes it more difficult for visitors to read them. Travelers don't always have the luxury of packing bigger books in their luggage and often enjoy the option of reading meaningful books before ending their day. And the Bible is as meaningful as anything gets.

Like it or not, America is a Christian nation founded on Christian principles. The Ten Commandments are engraved in stone at the Supreme Court and at other higher government institutions. Our money proclaims "In God We Trust".

It's sad that Obama is now choosing to ignore that heritage and is instead choosing to jump to the tune of the 2% atheists in our country while basically subverting the vast majority Christians.

my_two_cents_worth
university place, WA

I've been staying in Army and air Force lodging quite regularly since 1973 and have never seen ANY bible in any of my rooms. Every commercial hotel or motel I've stayed at always had them (usually the Gideon's bible). I guess the Navy has been slow to catch up.

@B_Rich

"In the name of religious freedom, we are eliminating the freedom of religion"

How so? How does having the Navy Exchange NOT put bibles in their lodging facilities deny ANYONE "freedom of religion?"

@Objectified

"Having Bibles available isn't forcing any particular religion on anyone. "

Having the Navy Exchange, a US Government agency, pay for them shows favoritism to one religion over others. Unconstitutional.

"Like it or not, America is a Christian nation"

No, it isn't. Step away for the Barton and pick up a real history read.

"The Ten Commandments are engraved in stone at the Supreme Court"

Maybe. The "tablets "Moses" is holding are blank and the engraving in the court doors are Roman Numerals that some say represent the Bill of Rights. Oh, and Confucius and other "law" makers are engraved up there with Moses. What does that tell you?

the greater truth
Bountiful, UT

Note the constitution does NOT say anything about promoting religion. The founding fathers congresses published religious materials, built edifices with religious symbols and writing, among other religious based things their congresses did.

The constitution Only says that congress can not make laws respecting an establishment religion. In other words they can not create a law favoring a church or religious organization.

Clearly the founding fathers would have no problem placing bibles in rooms.

The intent was to limit government interference in churches and religious worship.

Another attempt by the extreme left to intentionally misinterpret the constitution to limit and control religious freedom.

Mark B
Eureka, CA

Rather than leaving copies of ALL the world's major scripture, the Navy chooses to leave none. This is a sensible practice since anyone who wants can bring a Bible of their own in any format. There's no problem here, and certainly no "scheme to make America a godless society."

Lagomorph
Salt Lake City, UT

Objectified: "Travelers don't always have the luxury of packing bigger books in their luggage and often enjoy the option of reading meaningful books before ending their day."

There are many meaningful books. Should taxpayers be compelled to buy all of them for the benefit of travelers? What of the travelers who find the Bible to be apostasy? Stocking one religious book bought with taxpayer money to the exclusion of all others shows state favoritism to and promotion of a particular religion (sounds a bit like an establishment). Most of the holy books I have seen of many different faiths are available in compact editions that fit in even the most overstuffed luggage (not to mention e-books). Better to let the traveler tend to his or her own spiritual needs (God helps those who help themselves, I've been told). No need for a government handout.

I know it. I Live it. I Love it.
Provo, UT

It will be their own undoing.

If you suppress the influence of Christianity, the moral restraint that comes with that influence will decay. This is evident throughout the world today. It may not be recognized by those hostile to religion. But how people arbitrarily 'define' truth and what is true are not the same.

Without the teachings of the LDS Church, I'd be far worse off. I've seen that in several turning points in my life. Without the ongoing hope of the atonement, millions of people would be lost. Like it or not, agree with it or not- those of us who have experienced it know it is true.

So many people are running away from God, resisting someone they know nothing about. It's remarkable to watch self-proclaimed scientists and intellectuals fear the unknown so much that they'll invent their own version of it.

Making up your own morality won't make you right, and it will certainly not make you happy. Just as removing the bible won't remove God. Why resist someone in your life who wants you to be happy? It's illogical.

GaryO
Virginia Beach, VA

Hey B. Rich -

"In the name of religious freedom, we are eliminating the freedom of religion"

Baloney

"Bibles booted from U.S. Navy base guest rooms"

So what's the problem?

If a guest wants to read the Bible, then he can bring his own Bible.

. . . Or Koran, or whatever.

Bring you own reading material. Is that to much to ask?

Do you actually expect the Federal Government to provide your Holy Books for you?

That's an extremely perverse form of Socialism, don't you think?

lost in DC
West Jordan, UT

We would be just as angry if there was a Quran or a Torah or Richard Dawkins’ ‘The God Delusion,’” in the bedside tables of these Navy lodges, said Mikey Weinstein, president of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation.

No, you would not.

Your next target is the position of chaplain.

intervention
slc, UT

@i know it
We see the "moral influance" on people that post on these threads daily that claim a moral high ground based on their Christian beliefs. We see their blatant lie, their constant contradictions and blatant hatered. Religion like any other school of thought, yes that is all it is, can be a positve Influance but it can also be a crutch for moral decay.

Karen R.
Houston, TX

Once again individuals are mistaking privilege for freedom. Many thanks for the continued good work of the Freedom From Religion Foundation.

BTW, if removing a religious book from a government-owned facility is sufficient to prevent an individual from practicing his/her religion, then I think the problem lies with the individual.

happy2bhere
clearfield, UT

Just wait, Chaplains will be the next target. People who are unhappy in life and need to try to make other people unhappy instead of working on themselves. Pretty much sums up the type of person who actually wastes time fighting something that has harmed no one execept the "haters" (Obamas words) of religion.

Brio
Alpine, UT

@ my_two_cents_worth and of course GaryO (again):

The government is buying these Bibles. Read the article again. Perhaps a little more slowly this time. Just like in motel rooms, the Gidions, a private group, is providing them.

So much for that bogus part of your resentment and false reasons for not allowing Bibles wherve they've been for decades without any problems or complaints... until this single solitary letter of a relatively small group.

Eliyahu
Pleasant Grove, UT

How does the presence or absence of the scriptures for one religion in a guest room affect any of us? Why should it matter to me (a Jew) if my scriptures (the Torah and Talmud) aren't present when I stay at a government facility, and why should I want to find your scriptures, or anyone else's, when I check into a room? One doesn't even need to pack books when traveling any more, since laptop computers, tablets, e-readers and even our cell phones can have those same scriptures readily available to us. I also have to ask if the people up in arms over this would be as upset if it were the Koran and not their own bible that was the subject here? If not, I submit that the furor is over the failure to favor Christianity over other beliefs, and it's an inappropriate demand. If so, then why aren't the demanding that all religious writings be present in those rooms so that everyone can find his or her preferences waiting and ready?

Craig Clark
Boulder, CO

This poorly written article is confusing. The first paragraph says the Navy “no longer allows Bibles and other religious materials in the guest rooms.” But the third paragraph says that it “forbids religious items to be PLACED in guest rooms.”

That is a fundamental difference. So which is it?

Brio
Alpine, UT

My previous statement was intended to say that the government is NOT buying these Bibles.

From Forbes magazine, this applicable quote:
"Historian Larry Schweikart notes, 'The founding documents of every one of the original thirteen colonies reveal them to be awash in the concepts of Christianity and God.' Youth learned to read using Scripture. Universities were chartered to teach doctrine. Students could not even enter Harvard, Yale or Princeton without assenting to the Westminster Confession."

Followed by this particular quote:
"Christianity has always been indelible to our social fabric."

To try to reduce or ignore the integral connection that our Founders had with their Christian beliefs and how it was intertwined in their writings and doings is looking truth in the eye and denying it. Yet that is exactly what secularists (and some comments here) today try to
do. They conveniently cherry pick certain irrelevant quotes in an attempt to make their point.
But God is clearly referenced 4 different times in the Declaration of Independence.

John Locke wrote "legislation must be “without contradiction to any positive law of Scripture, otherwise they are ill made.”

The religious connection is basically indisputable.

John T
Scranton, PA

It's true that the Bibles are being provided, free of charge, by the Gideons. It's also true that the Navy Lodges and other motel facilities are located on government property. However, I fail to see how the mere presence of Bibles in any way violates the so-called "separation of church and state" - a phrase which, by the way, is not in the constitution. The "Establishment Clause," as it is called, merely prohibits the government from funding and establishing any official state religion, such as the Church of England once was. It does NOT prohibit the free expression of religion or religious views when one is on government property. It is an egregious form of eisegesis, (reading into this amendment, ones own views and opinions which simply are not there) which is behind these ill-fated attempts at banning the Bible, and Christianity in particular. I do have one question for the people of FFR: Why is it that you say nothing about the fact that government funds are being used to build Muslim prayer rooms on the campuses of taxpayer-funded universities, airports (which receive huge government subsidies), and yes, even some military bases?

happy2bhere
clearfield, UT

Craig Clark, Good point.

As Brio mentioned above, the Bibles are not funded by the government, but by private concerns. Plus I wondered what would happen if I were to leave a Bible or Book of Mormon in the desk drawer when I stayed at a federal facility. Would the thought police track down who was in the room and arrest me? Would they take the scriptures and throw them in the garbage? The latter would be a hoot, as it is illegal for the U.S. military to desecrate a Koran, but how about Christian scriptures? This whole issue has been made into a problem where one didn't exist. Typical of people who have too much time on their hands.

Bob A. Bohey
Marlborough, MA

The Navy has made the correct decision. All hail secularism! Only through secularism can ALL Americans be free!

Gildas
LOGAN, UT

Atheists rightly condemn the intolerant practices of the Medieval Church but wrongly seem to apply intolerance to all religions; then many of their number go on to oppose all religions. Intolerance thrives when there is a State Church or, in other words, an "establishment of religion". Thankfully Congress has made no law respecting such an estabishment by which one specific church would be fostered and others perhaps persecuted.

Atheists in attacking even the monopolistic, state estabished, Catholic Church (remember it was established by a Roman Emperor) are simply proverbial pots calling the kettle black. Speaking generally, atheists have very often shown themselves the most intolerant of all "religions" unwilling to co-exist peacefully with those of other opinions.

An overwhelming majority of Americans believe in God and of them most profess belief in Jesus Christ. Imo most atheists also believe in God though the idea of a powerful moral god irks them; any religion that bursts their very delicate bubble seem to be targeted by them.

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