@RivertonOh you meant Oregon State? I thought you were referring to
Ottawa State University. That makes SO much more sense now!!!
Even with all of their integrated scheduling breaks, byu loses the vast majority
of their meaningful games. They've literally never, ever experienced a
back to back weekly grind.Case-in-point--byu had all
off-season to prepare for Uva -- L, bye-weeks previous to The U/Wisc [both of
which were coming off of grueling conference games] -- Ls, Idaho State prior to
Nd -- L, weeks to prepare for a Uw team minus all of its primary coaches -- L
[Destroyed, in fact]....Lol.
These SOS debate are always entertaining. FWIW, high SOS has resulted in nearly
identical results for BYU and Utah over the last 25 years. Highest
ranked SOS in the last 25 years with results (I'm using sports-reference
for SOS ranks because their database goes back that far). BYU56, 1999 (8-4, L in Motor City Bowl, 1st in MWC)48, 1991 (8-3-2, T in
Holiday Bowl, 1st in WAC)47, 1993 (6-6, L in Holiday Bowl, 1st in WAC)34, 1992 (8-5, L in Aloha Bowl, 1st in WAC)33, 2013 (8-5, L in Fight
Hunger Bowl, n/a)28, 2003 (4-8, no bowl, 3rd in MWC)12, 2004 (5-6,
no bowl, 3rd in MWC)Utah65, 2011 (8-5, W Sun Bowl, 4th in
PAC12)64, 2001 (8-4, W Las Vegas Bowl, 2nd in MWC)61, 2010 (10-3, L
Las Vegas Bowl, 2nd in MWC)60, 1992 (6-6, L Copper Bowl, 5th in WAC)57, 2007 (9-4, W Poinsettia Bowl, 3rd in MWC)36, 2012 (5-7, no bowl, 9th
in PAC12)1, 2013 (5-7, no bowl, 10th in PAC12)
@NightOwl,"As someone that lives in Pacific Northwest PAC 12
territory, I can tell you that is not true. They post on each others
boards."I didn't say they didn't post on each others
boards; I said that I bet that most of the discussions take place on
Washington's and Oregon's boards. That certainly seems to be the case
on ESPN.@redthunder,yes, I am talking Washington (UW)
vs. Washington State (WSU). And for further clarification I meant Oregon State
when I said OSU, not Ohio State.
@ Riverton CougNot here to troll but WSU and Wazzu are the same
team...I think you mean UW?Cheers!
UU/Xam:So you don't understand logic and therefore decide to
attribute it to me "tripping all over (my)self"? Classic.Ok
let's simplify. BYU played the 38th SOS in 2013 and finished with 8 wins
and went to a bowl game. We constantly hear Utah fans claiming that if Utah had
that schedule they would have won more...10 games according to uteforever. I
said, ok well Utah had the 41st SOS in 2012 and still only won 5 games and
didn't go to a bowl game. So with similar SOS BYU was more successful than
Utah.Now the same comparison can't be made between teams that
had differences in SOS but were undefeated. In other words, just because Utah
2008 played a tougher schedule and went undefeated, doesn't mean they were
better than BYU 1984. There's no way to tell if BYU 1984 would not have had
similar success because they weren't given the chance against a 56th SOS
like Utah. And lets not forget that 2008 Utah nearly lost to 3-9 Michigan, 4-8
New Mexico, and 7-5 AFA.
Riverton CougarRiverton, UT said:"Fan Vote: Cougar Fans,
let your predictions be heard! Comment here.Fan Vote: Ute Fans, let
your predictions be heard! Comment here.**Comment on BYU's
article to have your predictions be heard by more BYU and Utah fans alikeI bet that most WSU/Wazzu discussions take place on Wazzu boards. I bet
that most OSU/Oregon discussions take place on Oregon boards. Likewise, most
BYU/Utah discussions take place on _______ boards (fill in the blank)."As someone that lives in Pacific Northwest PAC 12 territory, I can tell
you that is not true. They post on each others boards.
@RivertonCougie...."Amazing enough to beat the Cougars in a single football
game during the season, but not enough to impress the experts enough to actually
rank them higher."LOL.....We can't beat them on the field
in an actual football game but hey were better....thanks for the laugh
@Jeff29/rockwell and other cougie fans with the SOS talkLOL is all I
can say about thatOn the first page of comments so far cougies have
refferred to Utah's 2008 SOS and the cougies 2013 number 38 SOSOnly difference is Utah actually beat the top ranked teams on that schedule.
The cougies as usual lost to the top teams on their schedules. Rockwell/uteanymous....As I hear you refer to all the time would you like a
trophy for that number 38 SOS in 2013....It sure didn't help you get a win
against any top ranked team thats for sure........LOL
Cougdawg said, "you are aware that a 38 SOS was better than Utah's SOS
in 2012 right? BYU finished 8-5 against that schedule while U still went 5-7. I
would say that "means something" and says a lot"Hmmm
cougdog looks like you're tripping all over yourself here, would you also
say then that 2004 (#67) and 2008 (#56) vs. 1984 (#103) means something and
says a lot?What does your 2012/2013 example mean and say vs. my 2004
& 2008 vs. 1984 example mean and say???
Xam:"Cougdawg,Using your logic, the 2004 Utes (SOS 67) and
2008 Utes (SOS 56) were both better than the 1984 Cougars (SOS 103)."Nope. That wasn't my logic...you replaced it with YOUR logic. My
logic suggested that just because Utah has a stronger SOS doesn't mean Utah
would win more games against BYUs SOS. I used the example of BYU having a
stronger SOS in '13 than the Utes did in '12 and still winning more
games (8) than Utah did against a weaker SOS (5). I never suggested that certain
undefeated teams were better based on their SOS (there's also no positive
or negative differential to assess this with teams that weren't beaten). If
you're going to "use(ing) (my) logic" at least make sure it's
actually mine and not assumptions or inferences you made.
@Riverton CougarFair enough Guy. These comments are comparable to
the WSU/Wash comments on the Seattle Times board; or Seahawks/49ers boards.
It's rivaly that at times goes too far; and many take too serious. I
don't know about BYU being relavent for people all around the US; but I do
know the Mormon faith has far reaching boundries. I'm sure many have grown
up in Utah (I grew up in Riverton) like my self and moved else where; but still
follow their team and the rivalry. Thanks for the civil response and by all
means; Have a good day!
@Spokane Ute,I'm not concerned about it, and I'm aware
that BYU fans comment on Utah boards. It is part of the rivalry. I'm just
pointing out that the discussions take place at the BYU boards more frequently,
just as Wazzu/WSU comments tend to Wazzu boards and OSU/Oregon comments to
Oregon boards.I'm glad BYU is relevant enough to be such a hot
topic for people all around the US.
@Riverton CougarYou seem awfully concerned with Utah fans voicing
their view point. BYU fans do the same on Utah threads; it makes for interesting
dialogue. I certainly haven't noticed anything in the comment rules
regarding which fan base can comment on which articles? If you disagree with the
Utah fans comments; simply ignore them. No need to monitor thread; the D News
has that well in hand.
Fan Vote: Cougar Fans, let your predictions be heard! Comment here.Fan Vote: Ute Fans, let your predictions be heard! Comment here.**Comment on BYU's article to have your predictions be heard by more BYU
and Utah fans alikeI bet that most WSU/Wazzu discussions take place
on Wazzu boards. I bet that most OSU/Oregon discussions take place on Oregon
boards. Likewise, most BYU/Utah discussions take place on _______ boards (fill
in the blank).
BYU fan mocking Utah's 2008 team is laughable. That team beat two top ten
teams, was undefeated, finished #2, and won the Sugar Bowl! Think about how
rediculous you sound saying that the Utes weren't great because their
strength of schedule was weak. The bloody Sugar Bowl!!! Now go dredge up a
bunch of meaningless "facts" that prove that the Cougs are better than
the team that they consistently lose to on the field. As Knute Rockne used to
say, "Gentlemen, let's go win one in the comment boards!"
Jeff29Draper, UT@SpokaneActually, your prediction is not
a given.BYU could run the table and be invited to a playoff bowl
game. Not likely, but BYU probably has about the same shot at making it to a
playoff bowl game as Utah has of making it to any bowl game."That's just the way it is"It just seems really funny
to me how Ute fans are making fun of the bowl game that BYU will likely go to
when their team will likely not go to a bowl at all. I'm not really that
good at trash talking, but I'm pretty sure that's not how it
works..._____Apparently Jeff29 is not a fan of green
jello pops. Would you prefer fried funeral potatoes on a stick served at LES?
Cougdawg,Using your logic, the 2004 Utes (SOS 67) and 2008 Utes (SOS
56) were both better than the 1984 Cougars (SOS 103).
Riverton Cougar, I think 3-9 is the definition of ownership
@truthsandwichInteresting that you should take shots at BYU for
losing to a Washington Husky team for losing by 2 TDs when Utah was home
munching on chips and spirits and attending boring Christmas Parties...
It's particularly interesting given the fact that Utah has NEVER beaten
Washington in Football... EVER... While BYU is 4-4 against them...Oh, and talking about being embarrassed in Bowl Games... How did y'all
feel when Mid-Major Boise State beat y'all in a squeaker 26-3 (a 23 point
facial)just 3 and a half years ago in Las Vegas? You should remember that...
Y'all have only been to one bowl since.
I have the utes down for 2 and possibly 3 wins with a stretch... They will only
win one game in the big bad pac12 and thus maintain their pitiful showing in the
conference. Assuming they get their standard one win against Colorado they will
be 1-8 (an 11% win ratio)in conference for the year and 10-26 (a 27.8% win
ratio)for their 4 years in the conference...While BYU is either
Bowling with the elite or playing in South Florida with the AAC Champ we can
most certainly plan on another holiday at home on the couch for the ute
faithful... In fact, I would say that y'all should book that Chucky Cheese
restaurant again for the second Saturday in December for the team's awards
banquet to make sure that none of the Pop Warner or Boy's Club Teams
reserve it before you do.
Uteforever:"BYU having a 38 SOS last year means nothing because you
only played 5 respectable teams, Utah, Texas, Washington, Notre Dame and
Wisconsin."First off you are aware that a 38 SOS was better than
Utah's SOS in 2012 right? BYU finished 8-5 against that schedule while U
still went 5-7. I would say that "means something" and says a lot. As
far as losing to the better teams on that schedule, isn't that Utah's
problem also? Other than the fluke against Stanford what great, nationally
ranked teams have U beaten? Answer: none. You've just shown why SOS for
Utah means nothing either because U can't beat the best teams either.
Listing Utah with those other programs as respectable is also presumptuous."You would have won 2 games with Utah's schedule last year and
Utah would have won 10 games with your schedule. That is reality, sorry."Reality or ute myopic dreaming? U couldn't win 10 games against a
weaker schedule in 2012, what makes you think U would do any better with a
stronger schedule? I think U and your friends have a different definition of
reality than most people.
"The Utes aren't really that amazing Riverton Cougar, but amazing
enough to own you."Amazing enough to beat the Cougars in a
single football game during the season, but not enough to impress the experts
enough to actually rank them higher."You would have won 2 games
with Utah's schedule last year and Utah would have won 10 games with your
schedule. That is reality, sorry."What is reality is that we
don't know exactly how well they would have fared. Last year was the only
year in the past 4 or 5 years that experts considered BYU and Utah to be neck
and neck, so that indicator suggests they would probably have had similar
results. In fact, if BYU had played their season over again they probably would
have beat some teams they lost to and lost to some teams they had beaten. But
that's all speculation.
@ Jeff29 Strength of Schedule is just one of many criteria to judge.
Did you notice that the 2004 team blew out everyone, the closest game being a
14 pt victory over Air Force. We beat BYU by about 30 points that year so I am
sure playing them lowered our SOS. BYU having a 38 SOS last year means nothing
because you only played 5 respectable teams, Utah, Texas, Washington, Notre Dame
and Wisconsin. You only beat 1 of them, Texas. That is where your program
stands, 0-2 against the Pac 12 last year and 1-4 against decent teams. Beating
up on MTSU and other cupcakes really shouldn't matter and losing to
Virginia was laughable. You would have won 2 games with Utah's schedule
last year and Utah would have won 10 games with your schedule. That is reality,
Riverton Cougar,Your missing the point.BYU fans like to
mock 2008 for being a weak SOS, yet the Cougars haven't even come close to
beating 4 ranked teams like Utah's 08 team did. In addition, your 1984
team had an SOS of #103. Yikes!BYU fans also rip Utah for not
making bowl games over past 2 season so we point out the difference in SOS
(Utah's has been tougher than BYU's over the last 5 years with no end
in sight). The Utes aren't really that amazing Riverton
Cougar, but amazing enough to own you.
@truthsandwichSo I guess if Utah ever ever has a season with a SOS
in the 50's we can expect them to go undefeated every time? Wow. The Utes
truthsandwich,on the money
Jeff,I understand you are looking for objectivity from Ute fans
regarding SOS. Here you goUTAH v. BYU2008 56 v 742009
75 v 612010 50 v 552011 49 v 902012 41 v 632013 3 v
382014 top 5 v top 90Utah has had a tougher SOS 6 of last 7
years.If you want more objectivity we can compare BYU 1984 (#103) to
any year of Utah football, you pick. Seriously Jeff, when was the
last time BYU even played 4 teams that finished the season ranked let alone beat
4 ranked teams. BYU has never even come close to the body of work of
Utah's 2008 squad.
@Uteanymous"BYU's 2013 #38 SOS was considered
"weak" by the crimson-glasses wearers, yet the same hill crowd still
beats their chests about Utah's 2004 and 2008 seasons with #67 and #56
SOS."You seem to have forgotten an important detail: Utah went
undefeated in both 2004 and 2008. BYU went 8-5 last year. Your strawman that
"BYU's #38 strength of schedule was considered weak" only works in
that it's weak compared to the schedules Utah is playing now. Utah fans
acknowledge that BYU put together a decent independent schedule last year, but
they still failed to beat any ranked teams. In 2008 Utah beat 4 ranked teams,
including 2 top ten teams.It's nice that BYU made it to a bowl
game in 2013 by beating enough bad teams. When was the last time BYU beat 4
ranked teams on their way to a bowl?3?2?
@phoenix " there's no such thing as a SOS trophy."Is there a "we got pounded in our bowl game when we had to play a
legitimate team" trophy?
@SpokaneActually, your prediction is not a given.BYU
could run the table and be invited to a playoff bowl game. Not likely, but BYU
probably has about the same shot at making it to a playoff bowl game as Utah has
of making it to any bowl game."That's just the way it
is"It just seems really funny to me how Ute fans are making fun
of the bowl game that BYU will likely go to when their team will likely not go
to a bowl at all. I'm not really that good at trash talking, but I'm
pretty sure that's not how it works...
@ Phoenix (aka talkinsports)I stand corrected; it is the Miami Beach
Bowl vs. American Conference WinnerThat remains my prediction. Not
sure what's "jealous" about that? I don't recall ever stating
anything regarding SOS? Do you feel better now?
Since no one, not even any of the trolls, has actually given a BYU prediction,
let me be the first. BYU will go 11-1 or 10-2 and will provide fans, world-wide,
a fantastic season. Taysom Hill and Jamaal Williams will gain national
recognition and possibly Heisman consideration. Utah fans will continue be more
interested in BYU's fortune's than their own as their team again fails
to go to a bowl game--but, hey, Utah is in the Pac12 and that's all that
0-2 losses. Top 25 ranking. Taysom steps up big to roll into a huge season next
Spokane UteThere's no such thing as the "Beach Ball
Bowl", just as there's no such thing as a SOS trophy.Your
prediction is nothing but a bunch of jealous whining, since your Utes
aren't even good enough to qualify for a bowl anymore.
JeffUtah not playing in a bowl? Maybe, maybe not. BYU
playing in the Beach Ball Bowl? Absolutely.My predcition in a given,
yours is not! That's just the way it is.
@WACPaddingOurScheduleIt's funny, all this time I thought your
username was an attempt to mock BYU, but this morning I realized that it is
really a celebration of the last time the U had a winning season.You
need to be careful though because there are some people on this board who will
criticize you for referring to anything that happened more than 10 years ago and
I suspect that in the future you will have to look back a lot further than 10
years to reminisce about a winning season.
Spokane UteSpokane, WA@ WACpaddingVery funny; nicely
done. Prediction is easy; Beach Ball Bowl!___________Exactly!Nothing like a prearranged bowl game. Even of they
go 1-11. It will be a great season!
@Flames676.Does that somehow justify the Ute fans
criticizing BYU for playing a "MWC" schedule this year when their major
successes came against a "MWC" schedule?@Spokane Ute &
@WACpaddingPrediction definitely is easy, but I think the easiest
prediction this year is where Utah will playing a bowl game. I'll take my
Beach Ball Bowl; have fun with your Couch Potato Bowl.
@ WACpaddingVery funny; nicely done. Prediction is easy;
Beach Ball Bowl!
Byu's quest for a big time bowl will end earlier than almost any team in
the entire country, and earlier than any singe P5 team in the whole country. And then they'll have to pretend that they are playing for
something meaningful with a horrible schedule remaining.
Flames6When was the last time Utah qualified for a bowl after
playing a Top 40 SOS (per Sagarin)?
Jeff29BYU's 2013 #38 SOS was considered "weak" by the
crimson-glasses wearers, yet the same hill crowd still beats their chests about
Utah's 2004 and 2008 seasons with #67 and #56 SOS.Of course,
they'll use BYU's 1984 as their fallback rebuttal, completely ignoring
their own inconsistency in calling BYU 2013 schedule "weak" to justify
why BYU was able to qualify for a bowl in 2013.If #38 is
"weak", what does that say about the schedules about EVERY Utah bowl
Utah will win the rose bowl better than byu can win easily.Go Utes!
@ JeffWhat was a BYUs sos in 1984 ?
I am predicting an undefeated season and another National Championship for the
boys in blue! It is August and no games have been played, so whose to say that
reality should play any role in my prediction. This a schedule the
Cougars have been begging to have...literally. Only pessimists
would think them not capable of finally a Quest for Perfection. Gosh,
they've had lots of time since the first announced quest to get it....well
perfect! Rise and Shout, the Cougars ain't out...of it yet!
Green jello pops for the first 20,000 fans!
Ronald UharrietSWun City, Ca.I'd like to see more Bronco
Mendenhall style coaching. It's BYU after all. Neither Bear Bryant nor
Oral Roberts would be a perfect fit in Provo.
@RileyAnd yet that year they're Sagarin SOS was 56. We'll
see where BYU's SOS ends up, but the bottom line is that the U played a MWC
schedule that year. Regardless of that fact, Ute fans will extoll the greatness
of that year and in the same breath disparage BYU's MWC-like schedule.
Just asking for a little objective, intellectually honest assessment from Ute
Re: Jeff29Come on Jeff. In 2008 Utah beat 4 teams that finished the
season ranked in the top 25, 2 of them finished in the top 10.There
is no team on BYUs schedule close to what TCU was in 2008.
I would like to see more Bear Bryant type coaching and less Oral Roberts type
coaching. I would like to see every ligitimate day to practice
taken advantage of in order to develope the very best possible execution from
each individual player from the right guard, right tackle, left guard, left
tackle, WR, TE, Center, QB and all of the back field on the defensive side, the
offensive side and the special teams. We are not sooooo great yet, ------that
we can take time off before the last ball has been snapped at the end of the
season in our bowl game.If bored with the practice time spent,
instead of taking off work, find a different game to play or coach. I predict a
very respectable 10- 2 season with losses only to UCF and Texas. Houston and
Boise State are not to be over looked and neither is Utah State which will make
those games interesting, but we will win them unless we beat ourselves through
foolishness like taking time off of practice.
YAY Jeff! Nice post. I had no idea the Utes schedule those years was so weak.
Thank you for the enlightenment.
@GoRedSo I'm assuming you didn't get excited in 2004 and
2008 when the Utes went undefeated with similar (possibly weaker) schedules.
(According to Sagarin the Utes SOS was 67 and 56, respectively)It's pretty hard to argue, as many of U do, that the Utes'
performances in 2004 and 2008 helped get them into the PAC12 and then criticize
a school that has a schedule similar to the Utes schedule in those years.
Not much to get excited for with this WAC-light schedule.
Center of attraction for many Ute "fans".Easily.
Undefeated season and a spot in the play offs.Easily.