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Letter: Call for amnesty

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  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Aug. 14, 2014 11:55 a.m.

    Grant amnesty and open our borders and America ceases to be a nation. Pretty simple. The complete ignorance and lack of understanding plus oversimplification of the issue by the writer is intellectually insulting to be honest. No amnestly is certainly NOT the answer but restoring leadership to the White House and US senate is...for starters!!

  • SLars Provo, UT
    Aug. 13, 2014 10:56 p.m.

    SoCalChris

    The American people did not invite them, dishonest business and politicians may have. If someone in a gang convinces another to break the law, does it excuse his law breaking? Our laws are based on equal justice under the law, we can't give one group residency over another based on longevity in breaking our laws. And if we did, 5 years down the road, people would be complaining about second class citizenship and demand regular citizenship.

    Anything that allows people to stay will end up in citizenship. And it's amnesty being able to stay here and work after breaking the laws.

    Vernon Briggs, a Cornell University labor economics professor stated:
    "The toleration of illegal immigration undermines all of our labor; it rips at the social fabric. It's a race to the bottom. The one who plays by the rules is penalized... a guest worker program guarantees wages will never go up, and there is no way American citizens can compete with guest workers."

  • SoCalChris Riverside, CA
    Aug. 13, 2014 6:06 p.m.

    I support a path to legal status for some illegal immigrants. Some of them came at a time when they were almost tacitly invited and now they have deep roots here. I would make it a path to legal status rather than citizenship because I believe there should be some consequence for coming or staying here illegally and that's a reasonable one. There should also be fines, back taxes, etc.

    Politically, that will take the wind out of the sails of the Ann Coulters who think the sky will fall if any illegal immigrant gains the right to vote. It will also force the Dems to put up or shut up. Is their support for immigration reform altruistic or cynical?

    I believe most illegal immigrants just want to come out of the shadows, be able to get a drivers license, etc. They don't need the right to vote and they don't need handouts.

    Btw, it's odd that "legal versus illegal" seems to make a BIG deal for liberals when it has to do with the UN.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 13, 2014 2:25 p.m.

    @Maverick

    Re: "why don't repubs ever get on those American employers who break the law by employing illegal Latinos?"...

    It's NOT just about illegal "Latinos". It's about illegal "Anybodys". Maybe it's your point of view that focuses on one race, if you really think only Latinos come to America illegally... There are plenty of non-Latinos in our country illegally. They busted a container ship full of illegal immigrants from China not long ago. There are people working illegally in America from Africa as well.

    Is the immigration problem REALLY just about Latinos in YOUR mind?? I think it's ANYBODY here illegally...

  • tenx Santa Clara, UT
    Aug. 13, 2014 6:43 a.m.

    From what I read, the Gov., Chief, Atty. Gen., Chamber, Sutherland, Church1, Church2, DMN, SLT, Luz, Tony, Doug, and the Raza all support amnesty. Wish they would look at how the amnesty of 1986 (Amnesty to end all Amnesties) did not solve the problem and with no enforcement put us where we are today, with between 12 and 22 million illegals to take care of. The rest us sure would like to see our laws enforced, but then we are only here to pay the taxes so the elite can spend them (foolishly).

  • Kora Cedar Hills, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 3:06 p.m.

    Answer me this question: Should every individual who would like to come to the USA for a better life, of which there are billions, be allowed in?
    If not, why should some be allowed but not others? Who would you say should not be allowed?

  • SLars Provo, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 12:19 p.m.

    Noodlekaboodle
    If they are getting paid under the table then it's tax fraud.

    Jl
    There are several bills passed by both houses of Congress. Harry Reid refuses to let the House bills onto the Senate floor, and the Senate bill, drawn up by business lobbyists, and voted on without being able to read it, is stuck in the House. On such a divisive issue, is it any wonder Congress is divided, especially with a President that ignores enforcement laws and makes up new ones as he goes?

    It's time for the dishonesty in enforcement to end. We need Ike. The Progressive Democrats are the Democrats tea party.

  • Jl Sandy, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 11:09 a.m.

    @RRB, A comprehensive bill is sitting on a desk today, that is ready for a vote. Guess who is obstructing a vote and it ain't Harry Reid. You repeat the myths about Americans waiting for the jobs but one thing is for sure. Business is drooling for cheap labor.

  • tenx Santa Clara, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 10:40 a.m.

    "Immigrants are a plus for our nation". Naughty, naughty Eric. You are trying to be sneaky by trying to lump all that come here as "immigrants". Now pay attention.....LEGAL immigrants are good for our country. They are generally educated, go through the process of immigration and pay the fees, wait their turn, don't require handouts, assimilate and live by our laws. ILLEGAL "immigrants" on the other hand sneak across the border, jump to the head of the line (very very rude) game the system for about nine times what they pay into it and of course break the law numerous times to get employment, etc. About 84% of Utahan's favor the legal kind. Only the gang of thirteen (cannot list them as I won't get posted) and a few others favor the illegal kind. Viva LEGAL immigration.

  • Jamescmeyer Midwest City, USA, OK
    Aug. 12, 2014 9:11 a.m.

    "For conservatives, the only issue regarding immigration seems to be illegality."

    This is not true. Disease, crime, lack of communication, lack of useful skills, and being unwitting political pawns all factor in addition to their clear willingness to skirt under or hide from the law, at the risk of themselves or their families.

    As for amnesty, didn't we already try that? Didn't we already have amnesty and reform decades ago that was supposed to keep this from happening again? I don't think granting free and virtually effortless citizenship for people to pander to and draw in votes to empower more socialist-style big-government policies is the answer.

    Not to sound too disinterested in the problems and pleas of others, but we don't have the resources to take care of everyone. What we do have is, though often contested and attacked, a pattern of governance and living best for helping when applied.

  • Noodlekaboodle Poplar Grove, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 7:14 a.m.

    @RRB
    But many of them don't. Companies and individuals hire illegal immigrants, and know full well they are illegal, and pay them under the table. In those cases they don't have to get a SSN, and don't have to commit any fraud.

  • SLars Provo, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 11:49 p.m.

    The plaque on the statue of liberty needs to be enlarged. Before 1976 we allowed 500,000 each year. Now we allow over a million a year. We don't need illegal immigration, our legal immigration is at an all time high, we let in more people than the rest of the world combined. Why do the progressive (ultra liberal) Democrats want more legal and illegal immigration? Because immigrants tend to vote Democratic. Business wants more cheap labor.

    America has fought the battle for decades, from Eisenhower deporting over a million people in the 50's, to Cesar Chavez testifying before Congress in 1979 about farm owners sending trucks into Mexico and bringing back cheap labor to break the unions. In 1978 farm workers were making $5.63. That’s equivalent to $20.27 per hour in 2014, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. See how much it's cost Americans? With the cheap labor entering the service, hospitality, construction etc industries, it depressed the middle class considerably.

    Business and progressive Democrats, why do you hate America?

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 11:23 p.m.

    If following the law is so important then why don't repubs ever get on those American employers who break the law by employing illegal Latinos? Why do they get a free pass while illegal Latino immigrants are thrown the book?

    Some consistency would be nice!

  • prelax Murray, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 10:19 p.m.

    Utefan60

    If the people here illegally can't collect it, and the people who own the social security number they stole can't claim it, how does it end up in the social security fund?

    If it goes into the regular treasury, it's offset by $113 billion each year. That's the cost to government for services to them. A quick google search shows they contribute $10 billion every year. That's a $103 billion dollar loss, each year. That number does not include unemployment insurance, and welfare to the displaced worker. That's not a silver lining.

    If they get amnesty, they will be collecting social security paid over a shortened work life at mostly entry level jobs. How do we pay them?

  • Emerger Magna, Salt Lake, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 9:05 p.m.

    Re: "Call for Amnesty"
    I agree with the thoughtful sentiment of Eric Samuelson, and with his suggested compromise-solution. Something definitely needs to change with our immigration policy, making it easier to become a U.S. citizen. Either we do something like Eric has suggested, or perhaps it's time to tear down that famous plaque at the Statue of Liberty, with Emma Lazarus' poetic sonnet, New Colossus, welcoming the world's "tired,...poor," [and] "huddled masses yearning to breathe free." This is the same wise philosophy that has served so many years as our nation's great symbol of freedom & opportunity for all who have or will come here, including the ancestors of those who now reject its charitable symbolism.

  • prelax Murray, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 7:44 p.m.

    The Real Maverick

    Not true, the Bush bill was to stop human trafficking. These "children"(teenagers) were sent here by their parents. There is also a provision in the law that allows them to be returned under "exceptionable circumstances" without waiting here for trial.

    Besides, the majority are adults 290,000 vs 60,000. And 25% are from Mexico, the law does not apply to them.

    This is all on Obama and the Democrats. The House passed a bill that would end this, but the Senate was already in recess and Obama said he would not sign it.

    The Democrats must be desperate by excusing Obama for his actions by blaming Bush.

    The Clinton presidency had gridlock like this until the second mid term election, when the Republicans won both the house and senate. Then Clinton was forced to go to the bargaining table with them. Clinton never abused his executive privilege even with the grid lock.

  • Utefan60 Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 7:04 p.m.

    RRB, show me one illegal that has received Social Security and I'll side with you. Since they can't these funds are there for us here "legally" to have. Not a great thing but a silver lining on this issue.

    Conservative businesses want cheap labor. I lost my job once due to a huge Fortune 100 Company supposedly downsizing. In the end higher paid older workers were booted out. Their greed for cheap labor has brought people over the border. So don't always blame Democrats or quote liberals for this issue. Large greedy (and small greedy) businesses employ them so they can earn larger profits. I don't know where the answer is?

    Also can you show me many teenagers out doing the work that these people will do. In my neighborhood the teens don't even know how to mow their own lawns. We don't make them work but we want the work done by someone. So are we at fault too?

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 6:16 p.m.

    It's funny to read repub comments here criticizing obama's amnesty. In reality, it was Bush's law that Drew and keeps the kids here. Had Obama immediately deported them then these same repubs would be criticizing him for not following the law.

    Even funnier, is how the repubs are calling Obama pro business. So for 6 years he's been anti-business now suddenly he's pro? Why haven't repubs deported the illegals? In fact, why did the actor give them amnesty? Why did Bush want to give them amnesty again? They're pro business.

    The repubs are all smoke and mirrors. If they really wanted to stop illegal immigration they'd pass laws to punish those who employ illegally.

  • RRB SLC, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 5:13 p.m.

    wrz

    None of the money collected is put in the Social Security trust fund. None of it. The idea that they are building up Social security is false. The cost to the taxpayers greatly outweighs any benefit from putting money collected into the general fund.

    As far as STEM, we produce 3 STEM workers for every new job created each year. Many have to take careers in other fields.

    Ajax
    It's not just Hispanic, nice try making it a race issue.

  • Ajax Mapleton, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 5:10 p.m.

    Confused agrees with 2 bits that aversion of the undocumented is strictly “about the LAW and the violation of the Law… Not race.”

    Frankly, I find that hard to believe. Clearly this legality talk is overdrawn and more of an excuse than a meaningful issue.

  • MaxPower Eagle Mountain, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 4:29 p.m.

    1conservative

    Maxpower - IF demand is so great in the STEM fields why did Microsoft recently layoff 15k of their workers?

    Layoffs are numerous in the high-tech fields. Thats' because those employers are importing workers at one-third the wages of Americans.

    ========================

    Simple, supply and demand.

    Of those 15k, how many were STEM? How many were in their packaging and manufacturing plants? How many were in their stores?

    Microsoft took a beating with their Surface flopping, and the Windows phones have yet to make a dent in the power house of IOS and Android in the mobile/tablet market.

    Those that were STEM I would see being unemployed for about 15 minutes. (mild exaggeration, it's probably closer to 5).

    As far as these "imports" if they are willing to work for less, why would a company not hire them? If they do the same quality of work for less, wouldn't lazziez faire economics almost compel a business to hire them?

  • wrz Phoenix, AZ
    Aug. 11, 2014 4:28 p.m.

    Confused:
    "What about the illegals in Seattle(Russians, Canadians) or in the Northeast (Eastern European, Caribbean)?"

    What we need is a mix of immigrants... not millions from one ethnicity which we are not getting (Hispanic). We need to maintain a balance among all the races/ethnicities if we are to remain a 'melting pot' country.

    The one exception that I'm sure all would agree is, we don't need immigrants from middle east and other Muslim dominated countries. We run too much of a risk getting radical Islamists who have vowed to do America harm.

    ----------

    And the word should be Ledger, not ledge.

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 4:25 p.m.

    @MaxPower
    Your narrative about jobs Americans won't do does not stand up to the data.
    Sure, the Chamber wants these low-end workers because they will work for less and without benefits, thus driving down wages.
    Don't tell me that we could not find American citizens among 36 million candidates to fill the jobs held by 7 million illegal aliens. Working for less is the new normal. As a nation we would do well to coax our own back to work and make them productive workers.
    As for the other end - tech workers - there is no shortage of qualified citizens. But STEM is the flavor of the week in education so the false narrative continues. Besides, of the total problem the vast majority are at the other end - low skills and little education.

  • Ajax Mapleton, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 4:24 p.m.

    For those advocates of rounding up all illegal Hispanic workers and their families and teaching them a good lesson, do any of you ever have second thoughts on meddling so profoundly in the lives of others?

    And don’t accuse them of stealing your birthright. After all they were here first.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 3:45 p.m.

    RE: Lost in DC "Many, if not most, of the teenagers being sent here for BO’s signaled amnesty are NOT from North America, but Central America – your proposal for the union is off-base; and your call to take other people’s money to pay for it is too typical."

    North America includes everything north of Panama - I advocate for political union for all of North America. The present setup is suited to American capital which wants low wages. American capital can send factories to Mexico to get low-priced Mexican labor, AND they also can count on immigrants from the south who, because they are illegal, will work for peanuts in the U.S. Capital gets the low wage labor they want on BOTH sides of the border. Enough of this - political union now.

    And it doesn't bother me to take money from the people who set up this mess - American capitalists!

  • Confused Sandy, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 3:25 p.m.

    Happy Valley Heretic...

    You need to be careful of using the race card (Which you did).... Because the only illegals that you may be referring to is along the Mexico border (Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California).

    What about the illegals in Seattle(Russians, Canadians) or in the Northeast (Eastern European, Caribbean)?

    So as 2 bits says... this is about the LAW and the violation of the Law... Not race.

  • wrz Phoenix, AZ
    Aug. 11, 2014 3:06 p.m.

    @RRB:
    "Money paid into social security, even money paid in on a legal citizens account is put into the general fund. It's not added to the trust funds."

    It really doesn't matter where the SS funds are kept. What happens is, the money goes into the general fund with a ledge of the balance in the fund kept for the SS office. That office can tell you what has been collected and what has been paid out.

    And it doesn't matter what's in the fund that a retiree puts there. The benefit to be received upon retirement is based on SS taxed wages earned and years of work.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 2:23 p.m.

    Re: "For liberals, legal versus illegal seems completely irrelevant. This is not because we aren't concerned with the rule of law."

    Liberal aren't concerned with the rule of law. Unless the concept can be torqued and spun, somehow, to skewer conservatives, or advance some leftist political agenda [like the Scooter Libby case, for example].

    To liberals, every issue is politics. And, the only political issue is winning.

  • RRB SLC, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 2:21 p.m.

    Utefan60
    Money paid into social security, even money paid in on a legal citizens account is put into the general fund. It's not added to the trust funds.

    Most people here illegally get all of their taxes back. Two years ago, the IRS paid out 4.3 billion dollars to people here illegally claiming dependents that were not living in this country, using the earned income credit.

    It's more than compassion (you don't reward illegal behavior, that's not humanitarian), if we don't stop it now, and send people back, it will just keep happening again and again. Business is hoping that playing on our sympathy will keep them in cheap labor.

    They don't care about Americans losing their jobs, the deaths or the rapes that happen to people coming here. Compassion is requiring everyone to follow the same laws. It's the only way to be fair to everyone, it's truly humanitarian.

  • Alfred Phoenix, AZ
    Aug. 11, 2014 2:05 p.m.

    "For liberals, legal versus illegal seems completely irrelevant."

    Liberals would sell their country down the tubes for a bigger democrat voting base. That's what this illegal immigration/amnesty is all about... more democrat votes in coming elections.

    "But immigrants are a net plus for our nation..."

    Immigration is a net negative. Illegals coming here take Americans' jobs, depress wages, increase unemployment.

    "...less likely to commit crimes..."

    You might be onto something... if you're talking about crimes in black communities of Detroit and Chicago.

    "And illegal border crossing is a misdemeanor..."

    Illegal border crossing is more than a misdemeanor. It's a violation of sovereignty. With uncontrolled immigration we have wide-open borders and lose of our identity as a sovereign nation.

    "If I couldn't provide for my family, and all I had to do to get a better job was cross a border, I'd be across in a second. Wouldn't you?"

    If you cross our borders and take a job, you're likely taking it from an American who then becomes unemployed.

    "...let's find a home for children fleeing violence..."

    They're not fleeing violence. They are taking Obama up on his amnesty offer.

  • 1conservative WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 2:01 p.m.

    Maxpower - IF demand is so great in the STEM fields why did Microsoft recently layoff 15k of their workers?

    Layoffs are numerous in the high-tech fields. Thats' because those employers are importing workers at one-third the wages of Americans.

  • Utefan60 Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 2:01 p.m.

    This is a very good letter. I think that most of his ideas are very good and we do need to approach this in a more compassionate manner that just depot everyone. A very complicated issue made crazy by all the political rhetoric. This is peoples lives that we are talking about as if they are some type of cattle.

    BTW, I'm very happy thankful to the illegals that pay into Social Security. They will never be able to collect one dime and this extra money helps the system have more money. It is estimated that between 11-17 billion is paid into the system without any chance of getting it back. Sure helps my retirement! Thanks!

  • Nate Pleasant Grove, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 1:52 p.m.

    @Happy Valley Heretic "Yes, using the word "Culture" very carefully..."

    If the word "culture" means race to one person, and constitutional values to another, which of them is the racist?

  • MaxPower Eagle Mountain, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 1:49 p.m.

    @Say No to BO

    Simple, those 25 million are unwilling or incapable of doing the work available. People coming into are nation (High School Drop outs to Ph.D's) are willing/capable.

    We are severely lacking qualified people in STEM fields. Demand is greater than Supply, so the needs of demand have to found elsewhere.

  • wrz Phoenix, AZ
    Aug. 11, 2014 1:47 p.m.

    Barack Hussein Obama told us up front that he intended, as president, to fundamentally transform this country. He's well on his way to doing just that with the importation and amnestization of millions of illegals from other countries who don't respect our laws or our heritage. Thanks, Obama. Can't wait till you're outa the White House so true Americans can start putting this country back together again.

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 1:21 p.m.

    Please explain to me why importing high school dropouts helps our nation.
    We already have 25 million workers age 18-64 without any college who are unemployed. Even in prosperous times that number is 22 million.
    Then we have the 15-17 age group at 14 million; kids who need to learn to work.
    Why are we importing competition for them; people willing to undercut our own?

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 11:50 a.m.

    2-bits, anti-liar,

    just shows how weak HVH's argument is, when he tries to stretch the race card -twice - when no mention of race (outside of his own) was made.

    but that is a typical leftist response - when they cannot refute, they accuse you of saying or doing something you did not do - they pull it all the time. It really is tiring, but then, the left has always been tiring.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 11:24 a.m.

    Yes, using the word "Culture" very carefully to hide your prejudice remarks about a specific "Culture" might be a clever faux tactic but most can see through this.

    Why no call for a fence to the North, you know where the terrorist came across?
    Illegal emigrants fly in from all over, but the poor one who walk in are the problem.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 10:45 a.m.

    @Happy Valley Heretic

    You said, "You accuse me of pulling the race card, yet you defend yourself with prejudice statements like these"...

    I re-read anti-liar's post (to see who was playing the race-card, you or him). He said NOTHING about race. So maybe it IS you who played the race-card (in this case).

    ===============

    IMO "Race" has nothing to do with illegal immigration. The LAW is the subject (not race). Bringing race into it, and pretending anyone who supports the law is "racist"... is kinda "playing the race card" (IMO).

    The debate is about whether it's legal or not... not about your RACE.

    Race doesn't matter. What matters is... did you immigrate to the United States LEGALLY or not (race is irrelevant).

    ==========

    Please try to stay on topic, and quit trying to turn this into a discussion about race... it's not about race.

  • RRB SLC, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 10:27 a.m.

    ugottabkidn

    The left's only solution is amnesty for everyone. It's time to care about the millions of kids that will be sent here in the future to satisfy business and their illegal lust for cheap labor, and the Democrats desire to fix the elections for several decades with millions of new voters.

    Who will make up the financial shortfalls? There will be no shortfalls, because American workers will fill those positions, usually at a higher income level. We will save billions in cost to the taxpayers each year for social services.

  • ugottabkidn Sandy, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 9:58 a.m.

    By the time your Congress addresses any comprehensive immigration policies I'll be long gone but rather than attack someone who actually offers solutions (compared to the only right wing solution of deportation) I ask my conservative friends, Who will make up the financial shortfalls when you do deport all undocumented workers? They give you 10's of billions each year to SS, Medicare and Income taxes that they will never collect. It is a myth that they come here for welfare and healthcare and yet conservatives continue to spread the myths and I don't see a single rational proposal from them other than deport them. I don't really care what you do because you don't know what you'll do if you catch them. One thing is for sure, conservatives would never put any of the deportation burdens on the Mitt Romney's of the world even though they are the ones hiring them. I suggest you think it through.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Aug. 11, 2014 9:53 a.m.

    Amen - Professor Samuelson

    Amen!

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 9:49 a.m.

    Its sad to read editorials that show no compassion whatsoever for Americans (our neighbors, BTW)who have been and are currently being displaced at their jobs due to unfettered illegal alien trespassers.

    All this talk of "compassion" from the left. Where's the compassion for the our (legal) neighbors?

    I have to think (hope?)that most of the advocates of illegal immigrant trespassing are in actuality - smarmy employers - that just want to make a little more profit - for themselves, at the expense of the American workers.

    Lets not forget that illegal alien trespassers cost the U.S. (thats' you and me, BTW)over 100 billion per year in free "goodies".

    Why can't we just enforce already existing immigration laws, and, at the same time save the U.S. taxpayers 100 billion per year?

    Its' not so hard, all our government has to do is - want to!

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 9:47 a.m.

    Eric,
    While we’re extending amnesty, why not extend it to identity thieves, drug runners, and human traffickers, too? After all, that is what a large number of the illegal aliens are.

    And your solution of unlimited green cards is not a solution, it is a surrender. Even then it does not work as it assumes the illegals will use the system for which they have shown they have no regard.

    “If I cannot provide for my family, I’d cross in a second.” Thieves, burglars, embezzlers, check-kiters all use similar excuses

    You talk of breaking up families? Have the kids STAY with their parents – back home.

    Marxist,
    Many, if not most, of the teenagers being sent here for BO’s signaled amnesty are NOT from North America, but Central America – your proposal for the union is off-base; and your call to take other people’s money to pay for it is too typical.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 9:24 a.m.

    anti-liar said: Illegal aliens have a basic disrepect for the essential values upon which this nation was founded. Also they teach such disrespect to their children, typically. These essential values include sole allegiance to the United States Constitution, respect for the rule of law, and honesty in one's dealings with one's fellow man. Demonstrably, illegal aliens do not embrace these values. Indeed, theirs is an anti-American value system -- a value system incompatible with American values or the values upon which the nation was founded.

    You accuse me of pulling the race card, yet you defend yourself with prejudice statements like these?
    Good luck with that.

    Also couldn't help but notice you describing corporate America, Loyalty to money, not the nation, no respect for the constitution, rule of law or honesty, destroying American Values. Yep I think the bigger threat is from those who can afford to really rig the game. If a shoeless emigrant, with little skills, can take your job away, you really should think about upping your game.

  • John Charity Spring Back Home in Davis County, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 9:14 a.m.

    The censors consistently block comments with call for enforcement of immigration laws. This is inconsistent with a free exchange of ideas.

    The irrefutable fact is that the American way of life cannot withstand unlimited immigration. Having been to the teeming cities of Asia in which one can hardly turn around without knocking over twenty people, I can testify to the fact that quality of life goes down dramatically as population explodes.

    No reasonable person opposes legal controlled immigration. However, the support of uncontrolled illegal immigration is manifestly unreasonable, and will lead to destruction of all that makes America an attractive place to immigrate to.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 9:03 a.m.

    Most of you miss the macroeconomic processes driving change. Increasingly North America behaves as an economic unit. U.S. corporations have made clear their desire to run North America as a unit by their relocation of production capacity into Mexico! Economic considerations dominate. Well so be it.

    To be humane to labor we must drop the current charade which only favors American capital's drive for cheap labor. North American union - the sooner the better.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 8:57 a.m.

    If Amnesty didn't work in the past (and it didn't)... why would it work NOW???

    That's the definition of "insanity"!

    =====

    We have PROVEN (beyond any doubt) that when you give amnesty... people don't STOP coming. They just keep coming, and in a few years you have the same problem again.

    There needs to be an enforcement component to it. We always grant amnesty because it's easy, immediate, and gratifying for politicians and some groups in our society (who's votes they want VERY badly). But it doesn't solve the ongoing problem.

    Without a very strict enforcement component... amnesty would be a waste. The problem would just keep happening and we would need ANOTHER amnesty in a few more years.

    ========

    When we did "comprehensive immigration reform" when Reagan was President... there were 2 parts (Amnesty and Enforcement). Amnesty came right away, Congress promised the Enforcement would come later... but it never came.

    I fear we are doing the exact same thing again today...

    Show us a plan to enforce our borders that will work... and I guarantee you will get very broad bipartisan support (except from some groups in our society that DON'T WANT enforcement).

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 8:54 a.m.

    Happy Valley Heretic

    "...fear of losing your white male christian dominated 'Culture of a Nation'"

    Here we go again. If you can't refute the point, pull the Race Card.

    Of course the problem of illegal immigration has nothing to do with race, ethnicity, religion, nor gender.

    Rather, the issue is that of chosen VALUES.

    Illegal aliens have a basic disrepect for the essential values upon which this nation was founded. Also they teach such disrespect to their children, typically.

    These essential values include sole allegiance to the United States Constitution, respect for the rule of law, and honesty in one's dealings with one's fellow man.

    Demonstrably, illegal aliens do not embrace these values.

    Indeed, theirs is an anti-American value system -- a value system incompatible with American values or the values upon which the nation was founded.

    Culture is part of what defines a nation. The mass-scale invasion of illegal aliens into this nation certainly poses a threat to the national culture and thus to the well-being and viability of the nation itself.

    Thus, again, a nation can be destroyed without physical violence.

    Thus not all non-violent foreigners should be allowed into this country.

  • MaxPower Eagle Mountain, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 8:33 a.m.

    Eric, I love reading your letters. They are full of sense, and I have yet to read anything you write with which I do not fully agree. You articulate so well your thoughts and I wish I had your ability to do so.

    Thank you. You show me that there is some sense to still be had in this great State.

  • RRB SLC, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 8:32 a.m.

    Let's not marginalize illegal immigration. When someone comes here illegally they must commit felonies to work. Id theft, social security fraud and perjury (1-9 forms). A person who comes here legally cannot have a felony, so by coming here illegally, they, by law, destroy their chances of being a legal immigrant.

    Not to mention they cost society by taking jobs, depressing wages, and force the taxpayer to subsidize cheap labor for business. So yes, crossing the border is a misdemeanor, punishable by deportation, a fine and jail time. The President of the United States can be impeached on "high crimes and misdemeanors.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 7:29 a.m.

    anti-liar: "No, because it doesn't require physical violence to destroy the culture of a nation."

    There's the real reason, fear of losing your white male christian dominated "Culture of a Nation" that doesn't exist and hasn't for some time.

    I agree with the article.

  • Hamath Omaha, NE
    Aug. 11, 2014 5:39 a.m.

    I'm all for not wrecking families too. In the long run, will granting amnesty lead to more families giving up on raising their own kids and sending them north? The answer is yes and that would be a true shame. Some pain for these children now will save them long pain later and many many more children long pain (and possibly death from trying to get here) later.

    Send them home and seal the border better, then open up legal immigration more from these countries. Increase the quotas many fold and let them come legally as families. Then let them contribute their work and their taxes legally to our society.

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 1:40 a.m.

    "... less likely to commit crimes, more likely to become entrepreneurs."

    In other words, illegal aliens are better than Americans. False.

    "If I couldn't provide for my family... I'd be across in a second."

    Shoplifters rationalize likewise.

    "...what if we just expanded the numbers of green cards available?"

    Why not overload the lifeboat?

    "Give one to anyone without a history of violent criminal activity."

    No, because it doesn't require physical violence to destroy the culture of a nation.

    "... family-wrecking deportations,"

    Deportation doesn't break up families.

    Welcoming unaccompanied minors, on the other hand, does.

    Why, then, are you in favor of allowing them to remain? Can you not make up your mind about the importance of "keeping families together?"

    And how can you possibly justify teaching children that illegality pays?

    "...children fleeing violence..."

    Already debunked as manipulative, false propaganda. They are here for Obama's promised Amnesty, instead.

    "...let's embrace those who want to bless our nation with their skills and work ethic."

    You mean, let's embrace cheap, illegal-alien labor, for the enrichment of self-centered businessmen.

    "Worried about illegal immigration? Expand legal immigration."

    Laws do not create illegal aliens. Substandard moral character does.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 12:47 a.m.

    I offer a radical solution to this mess, not just wimpy amnesty (I mean no disrespect), but instead North American political union. Canada is our largest trading partner, and Mexico is close behind. Movement of goods increasingly is North-South via truck and railroad alliances. Most Mexican railroads are now subsidiaries of American railroads. The continent almost begs for union. The southern border cannot be plugged.

    All expenses of union can be accommodated by taxing the huge concentrations of wealth in the hands of U.S. capital.

    In the process adopt the Canadian system of health care.

    This proposal will probably drive the Tea-publicans nuts.