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Published: Monday, Aug. 11 2014 12:00 a.m. MDT

Updated: Sunday, Aug. 10 2014 11:11 p.m. MDT

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wrz
Phoenix, AZ

Barack Hussein Obama told us up front that he intended, as president, to fundamentally transform this country. He's well on his way to doing just that with the importation and amnestization of millions of illegals from other countries who don't respect our laws or our heritage. Thanks, Obama. Can't wait till you're outa the White House so true Americans can start putting this country back together again.

MaxPower
Eagle Mountain, UT

@Say No to BO

Simple, those 25 million are unwilling or incapable of doing the work available. People coming into are nation (High School Drop outs to Ph.D's) are willing/capable.

We are severely lacking qualified people in STEM fields. Demand is greater than Supply, so the needs of demand have to found elsewhere.

Nate
Pleasant Grove, UT

@Happy Valley Heretic "Yes, using the word "Culture" very carefully..."

If the word "culture" means race to one person, and constitutional values to another, which of them is the racist?

Utefan60
Salt Lake City, UT

This is a very good letter. I think that most of his ideas are very good and we do need to approach this in a more compassionate manner that just depot everyone. A very complicated issue made crazy by all the political rhetoric. This is peoples lives that we are talking about as if they are some type of cattle.

BTW, I'm very happy thankful to the illegals that pay into Social Security. They will never be able to collect one dime and this extra money helps the system have more money. It is estimated that between 11-17 billion is paid into the system without any chance of getting it back. Sure helps my retirement! Thanks!

1conservative
WEST VALLEY CITY, UT

Maxpower - IF demand is so great in the STEM fields why did Microsoft recently layoff 15k of their workers?

Layoffs are numerous in the high-tech fields. Thats' because those employers are importing workers at one-third the wages of Americans.

Alfred
Phoenix, AZ

"For liberals, legal versus illegal seems completely irrelevant."

Liberals would sell their country down the tubes for a bigger democrat voting base. That's what this illegal immigration/amnesty is all about... more democrat votes in coming elections.

"But immigrants are a net plus for our nation..."

Immigration is a net negative. Illegals coming here take Americans' jobs, depress wages, increase unemployment.

"...less likely to commit crimes..."

You might be onto something... if you're talking about crimes in black communities of Detroit and Chicago.

"And illegal border crossing is a misdemeanor..."

Illegal border crossing is more than a misdemeanor. It's a violation of sovereignty. With uncontrolled immigration we have wide-open borders and lose of our identity as a sovereign nation.

"If I couldn't provide for my family, and all I had to do to get a better job was cross a border, I'd be across in a second. Wouldn't you?"

If you cross our borders and take a job, you're likely taking it from an American who then becomes unemployed.

"...let's find a home for children fleeing violence..."

They're not fleeing violence. They are taking Obama up on his amnesty offer.

RRB
SLC, UT

Utefan60
Money paid into social security, even money paid in on a legal citizens account is put into the general fund. It's not added to the trust funds.

Most people here illegally get all of their taxes back. Two years ago, the IRS paid out 4.3 billion dollars to people here illegally claiming dependents that were not living in this country, using the earned income credit.

It's more than compassion (you don't reward illegal behavior, that's not humanitarian), if we don't stop it now, and send people back, it will just keep happening again and again. Business is hoping that playing on our sympathy will keep them in cheap labor.

They don't care about Americans losing their jobs, the deaths or the rapes that happen to people coming here. Compassion is requiring everyone to follow the same laws. It's the only way to be fair to everyone, it's truly humanitarian.

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: "For liberals, legal versus illegal seems completely irrelevant. This is not because we aren't concerned with the rule of law."

Liberal aren't concerned with the rule of law. Unless the concept can be torqued and spun, somehow, to skewer conservatives, or advance some leftist political agenda [like the Scooter Libby case, for example].

To liberals, every issue is politics. And, the only political issue is winning.

wrz
Phoenix, AZ

@RRB:
"Money paid into social security, even money paid in on a legal citizens account is put into the general fund. It's not added to the trust funds."

It really doesn't matter where the SS funds are kept. What happens is, the money goes into the general fund with a ledge of the balance in the fund kept for the SS office. That office can tell you what has been collected and what has been paid out.

And it doesn't matter what's in the fund that a retiree puts there. The benefit to be received upon retirement is based on SS taxed wages earned and years of work.

Confused
Sandy, UT

Happy Valley Heretic...

You need to be careful of using the race card (Which you did).... Because the only illegals that you may be referring to is along the Mexico border (Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California).

What about the illegals in Seattle(Russians, Canadians) or in the Northeast (Eastern European, Caribbean)?

So as 2 bits says... this is about the LAW and the violation of the Law... Not race.

marxist
Salt Lake City, UT

RE: Lost in DC "Many, if not most, of the teenagers being sent here for BO’s signaled amnesty are NOT from North America, but Central America – your proposal for the union is off-base; and your call to take other people’s money to pay for it is too typical."

North America includes everything north of Panama - I advocate for political union for all of North America. The present setup is suited to American capital which wants low wages. American capital can send factories to Mexico to get low-priced Mexican labor, AND they also can count on immigrants from the south who, because they are illegal, will work for peanuts in the U.S. Capital gets the low wage labor they want on BOTH sides of the border. Enough of this - political union now.

And it doesn't bother me to take money from the people who set up this mess - American capitalists!

Ajax
Mapleton, UT

For those advocates of rounding up all illegal Hispanic workers and their families and teaching them a good lesson, do any of you ever have second thoughts on meddling so profoundly in the lives of others?

And don’t accuse them of stealing your birthright. After all they were here first.

Say No to BO
Mapleton, UT

@MaxPower
Your narrative about jobs Americans won't do does not stand up to the data.
Sure, the Chamber wants these low-end workers because they will work for less and without benefits, thus driving down wages.
Don't tell me that we could not find American citizens among 36 million candidates to fill the jobs held by 7 million illegal aliens. Working for less is the new normal. As a nation we would do well to coax our own back to work and make them productive workers.
As for the other end - tech workers - there is no shortage of qualified citizens. But STEM is the flavor of the week in education so the false narrative continues. Besides, of the total problem the vast majority are at the other end - low skills and little education.

wrz
Phoenix, AZ

Confused:
"What about the illegals in Seattle(Russians, Canadians) or in the Northeast (Eastern European, Caribbean)?"

What we need is a mix of immigrants... not millions from one ethnicity which we are not getting (Hispanic). We need to maintain a balance among all the races/ethnicities if we are to remain a 'melting pot' country.

The one exception that I'm sure all would agree is, we don't need immigrants from middle east and other Muslim dominated countries. We run too much of a risk getting radical Islamists who have vowed to do America harm.

----------

And the word should be Ledger, not ledge.

MaxPower
Eagle Mountain, UT

1conservative

Maxpower - IF demand is so great in the STEM fields why did Microsoft recently layoff 15k of their workers?

Layoffs are numerous in the high-tech fields. Thats' because those employers are importing workers at one-third the wages of Americans.

========================

Simple, supply and demand.

Of those 15k, how many were STEM? How many were in their packaging and manufacturing plants? How many were in their stores?

Microsoft took a beating with their Surface flopping, and the Windows phones have yet to make a dent in the power house of IOS and Android in the mobile/tablet market.

Those that were STEM I would see being unemployed for about 15 minutes. (mild exaggeration, it's probably closer to 5).

As far as these "imports" if they are willing to work for less, why would a company not hire them? If they do the same quality of work for less, wouldn't lazziez faire economics almost compel a business to hire them?

Ajax
Mapleton, UT

Confused agrees with 2 bits that aversion of the undocumented is strictly “about the LAW and the violation of the Law… Not race.”

Frankly, I find that hard to believe. Clearly this legality talk is overdrawn and more of an excuse than a meaningful issue.

RRB
SLC, UT

wrz

None of the money collected is put in the Social Security trust fund. None of it. The idea that they are building up Social security is false. The cost to the taxpayers greatly outweighs any benefit from putting money collected into the general fund.

As far as STEM, we produce 3 STEM workers for every new job created each year. Many have to take careers in other fields.

Ajax
It's not just Hispanic, nice try making it a race issue.

The Real Maverick
Orem, UT

It's funny to read repub comments here criticizing obama's amnesty. In reality, it was Bush's law that Drew and keeps the kids here. Had Obama immediately deported them then these same repubs would be criticizing him for not following the law.

Even funnier, is how the repubs are calling Obama pro business. So for 6 years he's been anti-business now suddenly he's pro? Why haven't repubs deported the illegals? In fact, why did the actor give them amnesty? Why did Bush want to give them amnesty again? They're pro business.

The repubs are all smoke and mirrors. If they really wanted to stop illegal immigration they'd pass laws to punish those who employ illegally.

Utefan60
Salt Lake City, UT

RRB, show me one illegal that has received Social Security and I'll side with you. Since they can't these funds are there for us here "legally" to have. Not a great thing but a silver lining on this issue.

Conservative businesses want cheap labor. I lost my job once due to a huge Fortune 100 Company supposedly downsizing. In the end higher paid older workers were booted out. Their greed for cheap labor has brought people over the border. So don't always blame Democrats or quote liberals for this issue. Large greedy (and small greedy) businesses employ them so they can earn larger profits. I don't know where the answer is?

Also can you show me many teenagers out doing the work that these people will do. In my neighborhood the teens don't even know how to mow their own lawns. We don't make them work but we want the work done by someone. So are we at fault too?

prelax
Murray, UT

The Real Maverick

Not true, the Bush bill was to stop human trafficking. These "children"(teenagers) were sent here by their parents. There is also a provision in the law that allows them to be returned under "exceptionable circumstances" without waiting here for trial.

Besides, the majority are adults 290,000 vs 60,000. And 25% are from Mexico, the law does not apply to them.

This is all on Obama and the Democrats. The House passed a bill that would end this, but the Senate was already in recess and Obama said he would not sign it.

The Democrats must be desperate by excusing Obama for his actions by blaming Bush.

The Clinton presidency had gridlock like this until the second mid term election, when the Republicans won both the house and senate. Then Clinton was forced to go to the bargaining table with them. Clinton never abused his executive privilege even with the grid lock.

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