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Published: Monday, Aug. 11 2014 12:00 a.m. MDT

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marxist
Salt Lake City, UT

I offer a radical solution to this mess, not just wimpy amnesty (I mean no disrespect), but instead North American political union. Canada is our largest trading partner, and Mexico is close behind. Movement of goods increasingly is North-South via truck and railroad alliances. Most Mexican railroads are now subsidiaries of American railroads. The continent almost begs for union. The southern border cannot be plugged.

All expenses of union can be accommodated by taxing the huge concentrations of wealth in the hands of U.S. capital.

In the process adopt the Canadian system of health care.

This proposal will probably drive the Tea-publicans nuts.

anti-liar
Salt Lake City, UT

"... less likely to commit crimes, more likely to become entrepreneurs."

In other words, illegal aliens are better than Americans. False.

"If I couldn't provide for my family... I'd be across in a second."

Shoplifters rationalize likewise.

"...what if we just expanded the numbers of green cards available?"

Why not overload the lifeboat?

"Give one to anyone without a history of violent criminal activity."

No, because it doesn't require physical violence to destroy the culture of a nation.

"... family-wrecking deportations,"

Deportation doesn't break up families.

Welcoming unaccompanied minors, on the other hand, does.

Why, then, are you in favor of allowing them to remain? Can you not make up your mind about the importance of "keeping families together?"

And how can you possibly justify teaching children that illegality pays?

"...children fleeing violence..."

Already debunked as manipulative, false propaganda. They are here for Obama's promised Amnesty, instead.

"...let's embrace those who want to bless our nation with their skills and work ethic."

You mean, let's embrace cheap, illegal-alien labor, for the enrichment of self-centered businessmen.

"Worried about illegal immigration? Expand legal immigration."

Laws do not create illegal aliens. Substandard moral character does.

Hamath
Omaha, NE

I'm all for not wrecking families too. In the long run, will granting amnesty lead to more families giving up on raising their own kids and sending them north? The answer is yes and that would be a true shame. Some pain for these children now will save them long pain later and many many more children long pain (and possibly death from trying to get here) later.

Send them home and seal the border better, then open up legal immigration more from these countries. Increase the quotas many fold and let them come legally as families. Then let them contribute their work and their taxes legally to our society.

Happy Valley Heretic
Orem, UT

anti-liar: "No, because it doesn't require physical violence to destroy the culture of a nation."

There's the real reason, fear of losing your white male christian dominated "Culture of a Nation" that doesn't exist and hasn't for some time.

I agree with the article.

RRB
SLC, UT

Let's not marginalize illegal immigration. When someone comes here illegally they must commit felonies to work. Id theft, social security fraud and perjury (1-9 forms). A person who comes here legally cannot have a felony, so by coming here illegally, they, by law, destroy their chances of being a legal immigrant.

Not to mention they cost society by taking jobs, depressing wages, and force the taxpayer to subsidize cheap labor for business. So yes, crossing the border is a misdemeanor, punishable by deportation, a fine and jail time. The President of the United States can be impeached on "high crimes and misdemeanors.

MaxPower
Eagle Mountain, UT

Eric, I love reading your letters. They are full of sense, and I have yet to read anything you write with which I do not fully agree. You articulate so well your thoughts and I wish I had your ability to do so.

Thank you. You show me that there is some sense to still be had in this great State.

anti-liar
Salt Lake City, UT

Happy Valley Heretic

"...fear of losing your white male christian dominated 'Culture of a Nation'"

Here we go again. If you can't refute the point, pull the Race Card.

Of course the problem of illegal immigration has nothing to do with race, ethnicity, religion, nor gender.

Rather, the issue is that of chosen VALUES.

Illegal aliens have a basic disrepect for the essential values upon which this nation was founded. Also they teach such disrespect to their children, typically.

These essential values include sole allegiance to the United States Constitution, respect for the rule of law, and honesty in one's dealings with one's fellow man.

Demonstrably, illegal aliens do not embrace these values.

Indeed, theirs is an anti-American value system -- a value system incompatible with American values or the values upon which the nation was founded.

Culture is part of what defines a nation. The mass-scale invasion of illegal aliens into this nation certainly poses a threat to the national culture and thus to the well-being and viability of the nation itself.

Thus, again, a nation can be destroyed without physical violence.

Thus not all non-violent foreigners should be allowed into this country.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

If Amnesty didn't work in the past (and it didn't)... why would it work NOW???

That's the definition of "insanity"!

=====

We have PROVEN (beyond any doubt) that when you give amnesty... people don't STOP coming. They just keep coming, and in a few years you have the same problem again.

There needs to be an enforcement component to it. We always grant amnesty because it's easy, immediate, and gratifying for politicians and some groups in our society (who's votes they want VERY badly). But it doesn't solve the ongoing problem.

Without a very strict enforcement component... amnesty would be a waste. The problem would just keep happening and we would need ANOTHER amnesty in a few more years.

========

When we did "comprehensive immigration reform" when Reagan was President... there were 2 parts (Amnesty and Enforcement). Amnesty came right away, Congress promised the Enforcement would come later... but it never came.

I fear we are doing the exact same thing again today...

Show us a plan to enforce our borders that will work... and I guarantee you will get very broad bipartisan support (except from some groups in our society that DON'T WANT enforcement).

marxist
Salt Lake City, UT

Most of you miss the macroeconomic processes driving change. Increasingly North America behaves as an economic unit. U.S. corporations have made clear their desire to run North America as a unit by their relocation of production capacity into Mexico! Economic considerations dominate. Well so be it.

To be humane to labor we must drop the current charade which only favors American capital's drive for cheap labor. North American union - the sooner the better.

John Charity Spring
Back Home in Davis County, UT

The censors consistently block comments with call for enforcement of immigration laws. This is inconsistent with a free exchange of ideas.

The irrefutable fact is that the American way of life cannot withstand unlimited immigration. Having been to the teeming cities of Asia in which one can hardly turn around without knocking over twenty people, I can testify to the fact that quality of life goes down dramatically as population explodes.

No reasonable person opposes legal controlled immigration. However, the support of uncontrolled illegal immigration is manifestly unreasonable, and will lead to destruction of all that makes America an attractive place to immigrate to.

Happy Valley Heretic
Orem, UT

anti-liar said: Illegal aliens have a basic disrepect for the essential values upon which this nation was founded. Also they teach such disrespect to their children, typically. These essential values include sole allegiance to the United States Constitution, respect for the rule of law, and honesty in one's dealings with one's fellow man. Demonstrably, illegal aliens do not embrace these values. Indeed, theirs is an anti-American value system -- a value system incompatible with American values or the values upon which the nation was founded.

You accuse me of pulling the race card, yet you defend yourself with prejudice statements like these?
Good luck with that.

Also couldn't help but notice you describing corporate America, Loyalty to money, not the nation, no respect for the constitution, rule of law or honesty, destroying American Values. Yep I think the bigger threat is from those who can afford to really rig the game. If a shoeless emigrant, with little skills, can take your job away, you really should think about upping your game.

lost in DC
West Jordan, UT

Eric,
While we’re extending amnesty, why not extend it to identity thieves, drug runners, and human traffickers, too? After all, that is what a large number of the illegal aliens are.

And your solution of unlimited green cards is not a solution, it is a surrender. Even then it does not work as it assumes the illegals will use the system for which they have shown they have no regard.

“If I cannot provide for my family, I’d cross in a second.” Thieves, burglars, embezzlers, check-kiters all use similar excuses

You talk of breaking up families? Have the kids STAY with their parents – back home.

Marxist,
Many, if not most, of the teenagers being sent here for BO’s signaled amnesty are NOT from North America, but Central America – your proposal for the union is off-base; and your call to take other people’s money to pay for it is too typical.

Fitness Freak
Salt Lake City, UT

Its sad to read editorials that show no compassion whatsoever for Americans (our neighbors, BTW)who have been and are currently being displaced at their jobs due to unfettered illegal alien trespassers.

All this talk of "compassion" from the left. Where's the compassion for the our (legal) neighbors?

I have to think (hope?)that most of the advocates of illegal immigrant trespassing are in actuality - smarmy employers - that just want to make a little more profit - for themselves, at the expense of the American workers.

Lets not forget that illegal alien trespassers cost the U.S. (thats' you and me, BTW)over 100 billion per year in free "goodies".

Why can't we just enforce already existing immigration laws, and, at the same time save the U.S. taxpayers 100 billion per year?

Its' not so hard, all our government has to do is - want to!

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

Amen - Professor Samuelson

Amen!

ugottabkidn
Sandy, UT

By the time your Congress addresses any comprehensive immigration policies I'll be long gone but rather than attack someone who actually offers solutions (compared to the only right wing solution of deportation) I ask my conservative friends, Who will make up the financial shortfalls when you do deport all undocumented workers? They give you 10's of billions each year to SS, Medicare and Income taxes that they will never collect. It is a myth that they come here for welfare and healthcare and yet conservatives continue to spread the myths and I don't see a single rational proposal from them other than deport them. I don't really care what you do because you don't know what you'll do if you catch them. One thing is for sure, conservatives would never put any of the deportation burdens on the Mitt Romney's of the world even though they are the ones hiring them. I suggest you think it through.

RRB
SLC, UT

ugottabkidn

The left's only solution is amnesty for everyone. It's time to care about the millions of kids that will be sent here in the future to satisfy business and their illegal lust for cheap labor, and the Democrats desire to fix the elections for several decades with millions of new voters.

Who will make up the financial shortfalls? There will be no shortfalls, because American workers will fill those positions, usually at a higher income level. We will save billions in cost to the taxpayers each year for social services.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

@Happy Valley Heretic

You said, "You accuse me of pulling the race card, yet you defend yourself with prejudice statements like these"...

I re-read anti-liar's post (to see who was playing the race-card, you or him). He said NOTHING about race. So maybe it IS you who played the race-card (in this case).

===============

IMO "Race" has nothing to do with illegal immigration. The LAW is the subject (not race). Bringing race into it, and pretending anyone who supports the law is "racist"... is kinda "playing the race card" (IMO).

The debate is about whether it's legal or not... not about your RACE.

Race doesn't matter. What matters is... did you immigrate to the United States LEGALLY or not (race is irrelevant).

==========

Please try to stay on topic, and quit trying to turn this into a discussion about race... it's not about race.

Happy Valley Heretic
Orem, UT

Yes, using the word "Culture" very carefully to hide your prejudice remarks about a specific "Culture" might be a clever faux tactic but most can see through this.

Why no call for a fence to the North, you know where the terrorist came across?
Illegal emigrants fly in from all over, but the poor one who walk in are the problem.

lost in DC
West Jordan, UT

2-bits, anti-liar,

just shows how weak HVH's argument is, when he tries to stretch the race card -twice - when no mention of race (outside of his own) was made.

but that is a typical leftist response - when they cannot refute, they accuse you of saying or doing something you did not do - they pull it all the time. It really is tiring, but then, the left has always been tiring.

Say No to BO
Mapleton, UT

Please explain to me why importing high school dropouts helps our nation.
We already have 25 million workers age 18-64 without any college who are unemployed. Even in prosperous times that number is 22 million.
Then we have the 15-17 age group at 14 million; kids who need to learn to work.
Why are we importing competition for them; people willing to undercut our own?

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