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Brad Rock: BYU should draw a line on arms race

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  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Aug. 14, 2014 9:52 p.m.

    @swizzy

    Ah....the worn out and lame refrain of the utah "fan", end BYU sports because we don't like them. It is an interesting thing to see utah "fans" so conflicted between their church membership and the hate they feel for one of the most important institutions of their church. I'm glad I have no such conflict, I love everything about the church and hate none of it.

  • swizzy18 Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 14, 2014 3:17 p.m.

    byu football is not the missionary tool byu fans pretend it to be. Many immoral actions (strip clubs, pregnancies, assaults, drunk drivings, belittling remarks on the jumbotron, fans throwing things at refs in both basketball and football games, fans attacking cheerleaders, etc.) and self-righteous comments ("we obey the commandments more than you so God blesses us to beat you" and "this is the Lord's team" type) by byu athletes, coaches, and fans drastically drown any potential good byu athletics may be spreading. One need look no further than many of the comments on this article left by byu fans to see how repulsive byu sports makes the mormon church. It is shameful, embarrassing, and unchristian. The LDS church would be better off if byu sports ceased to exist.

  • xert Santa Monica, CA
    Aug. 14, 2014 8:29 a.m.

    Count me among those who feel that this is not good for either Utah or BYU. On the other hand, the sooner that greed finally destroys college sports, the better. When we can finally see some light and the football factories separate themselves, the others might finally find a way to either blow up their football programs or be forever seen as trying and failing to make football relevant on their campuses. I hear a lot of talk about how a college isn't really a college without big time college football and I have to laugh at that. There are so many great universities in this nation where football either isn't even played, or it's just an afterthought. If you are a president of a university that does not choose to take part in this madness, here is a remedy for the insanity which is about to ensue--don't take part. Find a different way to make sports something that may not make much money for your school, but that really adds value to your school and serves your students.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Aug. 13, 2014 5:18 p.m.

    @BleedCougarBlue

    That's all that matters Guy!

  • BleedCougarBlue Enid, OK
    Aug. 13, 2014 4:08 p.m.

    Let's just cut to the chase....

    as long as BYU is able to play sports, and in particular, football, on days other than Sundays and, during the changing rules and general 'expansion' of college sports, not do anything that is illegal or immoral they will keep participating in collegiate sports, particularly football.

    Why?

    Because exposure of BYU sports, and in particular, a winning football team, equates to people becoming curious about BYU and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and that in turn leads to new LDS members.

    Works for me!

  • Common Cents Lehi, UT
    Aug. 13, 2014 11:23 a.m.

    Regarding Stipends...shouldn't boosters and fans that pay for BYU's team deserve one more than the state schools getting millions in subsidies???

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Aug. 13, 2014 7:28 a.m.

    "I do see a pattern:

    Washington OWNS Washington State... Oregon OWNS Oregon State ... just like Utah OWNS BYU

    Thanks, but that was too obvious."

    If you noticed a pattern, you would probably have noticed that all these comments are taking place on BYU boards. I thought it was obvious! Thanks for proving my point.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 12, 2014 10:52 p.m.

    @Riverton Cougar

    And let's see, 22 of the last 36 comments on this BYU article are from Ute fans. I bet most of the WSU/Washington trash talk takes place on Washington boards. I bet most of the Oregon State/Oregon trash talk takes place on Oregon boards. See a pattern?

    -----------

    I do see a pattern:

    Washington OWNS Washington State... Oregon OWNS Oregon State ... just like Utah OWNS BYU

    Thanks, but that was too obvious.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 10:17 p.m.

    So what you are saying uteology is that utah "fans" hate BYU, but we all knew that anyway. No one else cares about nay of those things and all are pretty tame anyway. How about these.

    *Up 40+ points in the 2nd half kyle whittingham orders his team to kick an onside kick because his feelings were hurt by the big meany wyoming coach making some really tame comments to the wyoming booster club.

    *At the end of utah's 2009 loss to BYU kyle whittingham's son attacked a BYU fan and threw his phone out onto the filed losing it. The utah athletic department later paid for the BYU fans phone admitting guilt.

    *At the end of 2008's win over BYU several classy utah "fans" verbally accosted the mother and family of BYU qb Max Hall including pouring drinks onto them.

    *In a pregame speech utah safety morgan scalley goes on and on about his hate for BYU and all they stand for, claiming he had "hated them since I was born" among other classless comments.

    There's plenty more of course, but utah "fan" dishonesty and hypocrisy blinds them to their own classlessness and bad reputations.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 6:36 p.m.

    So then getting Texas back wouldn't be so hard then if Wyoming can do it. Again, you guys are comparing BYU's weakest independent schedule with other schedules.

    What P5 out of conference teams, besides Michigan, plans to come to RES?

    And let's see, 22 of the last 36 comments on this BYU article are from Ute fans. I bet most of the WSU/Washington trash talk takes place on Washington boards. I bet most of the Oregon State/Oregon trash talk takes place on Oregon boards. See a pattern?

  • Jeremy234 SLC, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 2:42 p.m.

    If BYU dropped athletics it will fall off the map and be regarded with the "Liberty University" and "Bob Jones" universities of the world. There will probably be a set demarcation of money so the Indianas, the Mississippi States and the Minnesotas can compete with everybody else. Another option for BYU is to not try to keep up. It's unlikely the Sun Belt will start playing players, why not go that route with them?

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 12, 2014 2:30 p.m.

    Riverton Cougar
    Riverton, UT

    "Idaho and New Mexico St. did it. Why wouldn't Utah be able to?"

    Ok, get Texas to come play at RES. Sure, they could put together a schedule, but can they put together a good one? BYU has had good independent schedules, and will have more. I doubt Utah could do much better than the worst BYU independent schedule.

    ------------

    You wouldn't if you did some research.

    Considering that Utah has played Stanford, Texas A&M, Oregon, ULCA, Oregon State, Pitt, etc. at RES before joining the PAC-12. While Texas was actually scheduled to play at RES in 2008, but that series was canceled by Urban Meyer.

    "As a Texas native, quarterback Brian Johnson has followed the progress of the Texas Longhorns through the years. Now with the Longhorns No. 1 and Utah in the BCS hunt, Johnson wonders what it would have been like if the Longhorns were kept on Utah's schedule and had played at Rice-Eccles Stadium this year [2008]. The series with Texas was canceled at former coach Urban Meyer's urging." -- SL Trib

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    Aug. 12, 2014 2:21 p.m.

    Uteology
    East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Here's couple that I missed:

    G) A BYU fan attacked a Ute Cheerleader while other BYU fans clapped in approval at LES

    H) BYU creates controversy as pre-game Haka ritual

    * In the 2005 rivalry game, the haka was performed facing Utah instead of the student body. Safety Joe Dale and linebacker Stevenson Sylvester crossed over to BYU’s side of the field when BYU began to perform the haka. Soon, a score of Ute players followed, leading to a heated confrontation between the teams before the referees broke up the argument.

    * When several BYU players performed the ritual at a pep rally on Fremont Street before the 2006 Vegas Bowl, Oregon players attempted to jump the crowd barriers to confront BYU.

    I) In 1977, BYU soundly beat Utah 38–8 in Provo. With less than two minutes left, BYU's star QB, Marc Wilson, was sent back into the game to set an NCAA passing record. In his post-game remarks to the press, Howard accused Edwards of running up the score.

    ___________

    Not just football.

    2012 Basketball when BYU got trashed at home by St. Mary's. Fans threw garbage on the court and at the refs.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    Aug. 12, 2014 2:17 p.m.

    Riverton Cougar
    Riverton, UT
    "Idaho and New Mexico St. did it. Why wouldn't Utah be able to?"

    Ok, get Texas to come play at RES. Sure, they could put together a schedule, but can they put together a good one? BYU has had good independent schedules, and will have more. I doubt Utah could do much better than the worst BYU independent schedule.

    ________

    Utah could do just as good or better. They are not bound by no Sunday play for other sports. When AD's talk to each other about football, they also talk about playing olympic sports against each other as well.

    Wyoming had Texas in Laramie. So much for Texas playing at LES.
    Utah is just fine with it's scheduling. Nine games are already set with PAC 12 members.

    And Wyoming does not seem to have a problem scheduling teams. They play Oregon and Michigan State this season. Who cares, the games are on the road. They are still playing them. Almost beat Nebraska and have them on the schedule again in two years.

    Give up comparing your schedule with Utah BYU fans. You can't even keep up with Wyoming.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 2:15 p.m.

    @ Riverton Cougar

    I don't know what Utah would be able to do, but I have confidence that Utah can attract quality teams.

    What I do know is that Idaho's SOS last year was 72, which will most likely be higher than BYU's SOS for the upcoming season....

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 1:49 p.m.

    "Idaho and New Mexico St. did it. Why wouldn't Utah be able to?"

    Ok, get Texas to come play at RES. Sure, they could put together a schedule, but can they put together a good one? BYU has had good independent schedules, and will have more. I doubt Utah could do much better than the worst BYU independent schedule.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 12, 2014 1:48 p.m.

    Here's couple that I missed:

    G) A BYU fan attacked a Ute Cheerleader while other BYU fans clapped in approval at LES

    H) BYU creates controversy as pre-game Haka ritual

    * In the 2005 rivalry game, the haka was performed facing Utah instead of the student body. Safety Joe Dale and linebacker Stevenson Sylvester crossed over to BYU’s side of the field when BYU began to perform the haka. Soon, a score of Ute players followed, leading to a heated confrontation between the teams before the referees broke up the argument.

    * When several BYU players performed the ritual at a pep rally on Fremont Street before the 2006 Vegas Bowl, Oregon players attempted to jump the crowd barriers to confront BYU.

    I) In 1977, BYU soundly beat Utah 38–8 in Provo. With less than two minutes left, BYU's star QB, Marc Wilson, was sent back into the game to set an NCAA passing record. In his post-game remarks to the press, Howard accused Edwards of running up the score.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 1:36 p.m.

    @ Riverton Cougar

    "I'd like to see Utah put together an independent schedule."

    Idaho and New Mexico St. did it. Why wouldn't Utah be able to?

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Aug. 12, 2014 1:14 p.m.

    H) The BYU fans never ever stating after a loss; "we got beat by a better team"!

  • Clark W. Griswold Sandy, Utah
    Aug. 12, 2014 12:41 p.m.

    @ Uteology

    You forgot one!

    G) The BYU alumni in the replay booth incident in the 2010 game against SDSU.

    @ Riverton Cougar

    "I'd like to see Utah put together an independent schedule"

    Why on earth would Utah or any team want to go independent? There is nothing to play for. Utah already has 9 built in games against P5 opponents on their schedule, plus they have Michigan this year and next year.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 12, 2014 11:55 a.m.

    @Duckhunter

    No, IMO here's some examples of why BYU is hated:

    A) Lenny Gomes
    B) BYU football: Max Hall reprimanded by Mountain West Conference
    C) Dick Harmon went on ESPN and nearly cried when Utah was invited to the PAC-12
    D) Angry BYU Fans Throw Garbage At [PAC-12] Referees
    E) BYU apologizes to [Utah State] for ill-advised Jumbotron message
    F) MWC reprimands Jorgensen, Lamb for comments they made about Air Force

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 10:56 a.m.

    "In other words, I correctly refuted your argument. Thanks for confirming it."

    It's called sarcasm.

    I'd like to see Utah put together an independent schedule. BYU does a pretty good job considering. Besides, some of the teams on BYU's schedule were a lot better when BYU schedules them than they are projected to be this year. BYU can't change how good an opponent is, but they can make them look bad at times by how bad they beat them down.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 10:54 a.m.

    So let's see rufus and uteology if I have this right. When utah "fans" get on a BYU article and predict the demise of BYU while commenting on how bad a program they claim BYU is it is simply an 'honest assessment' of the situation with no guile whatsoever?

    But when a BYU fan comments in reply about how poorly utah has actually performed, the obvious disadvantages utah has and the unlikelyhood it will ever be more than a low level pac12 program then those BYU fans are "arrogant" and "hated by the entire country"?

    LOL!

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 10:48 a.m.

    I am amused by how azute wants to use the NCAA rankings to comment on BYU's schedule but wants to use different rankings to comment on Alabama's. Typical utah "fan" dishonesty and hypocrisy. lol

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 12, 2014 10:40 a.m.

    Rufus T. Firefly
    Salt Lake City, UT

    Duckhunter....your post made me laugh, because your response represents everything the majority of college football programs who always rate BYU as one of the most-hated teams...and it's not because BYU sometimes beats them...it's the arrogance and lack of humility that is exhibited by BYU and their fans.

    ----------

    It's not just the fans. For me, as a kid, it was Lenny Gomes after we finally started beating them:

    "All those guys think that’s all there is to life. But when I’m making $50-60,000 a year, they’ll be pumping my gas. They’re low class losers.”

    Now for the next generation it will be Max Hall's post-game rant.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 12, 2014 10:20 a.m.

    Temple was kicked out, which shows precedence that a conference can choose to kick out a member from conference. Will it happen to Utah like most BYU fans fantasize about? The probability is closer to zero.

    @Riverton Cougar: "I dare you to google "Ten Teams who should be kicked out of BCS conferences" and read the bleacher report article. Utah is not looked at in favorable light by P5 schools."

    Nope! Eddie Dzurilla doesn't speak for P5 schools.

    Personally, I think Larry Scott and the opinion of the PAC-10 presidents was more important.

    Why should Ute Nation care about what a person who works at "Trilogy Payment Solutions, a merchant services (credit and debit card processing) vendor as their Director of Marketing and Sales" thinks about Utah back in 2010?

    Let's see Dzurilla's argument is for kicking out Utah from the PAC-12 in favor of BYU, who apparently plays in Salt Lake City and apparently all he cares about is BYU's WAC resume (because BYU doesn't have a BCS Resume).

    It's obvious that in 2010 he didn't read Dennis Dodd's (CBS Sports Senior Writer) article that ranked Utah #10 and BYU #27 over the previous decade.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    Aug. 12, 2014 10:01 a.m.

    "I didn't realize Vanderbilt was such a powerhouse."

    In other words, I correctly refuted your argument. Thanks for confirming it.

    "Besides, if Alabama's SOS can improve throughout the season, why can't BYU's?"

    Because, as I previously mentioned, Alabama plays against a 8 game sec schedule, plus West Virginia. On the other hand, byu plays against Texas and?

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 9:25 a.m.

    @AZUTE1

    I didn't realize Vanderbilt was such a powerhouse. The PAC should have invited them an not Utah if they knew how good Vandy was.

    "Alabama's sos ranking is significantly higher in other places, such as espn's and phil steele's."

    In Phil Steele's SOS ranking:

    Alabama (61)
    BYU (73)

    Still not a terribly large difference. Notice that BYU's SOS is higher, too. Besides, if Alabama's SOS can improve throughout the season, why can't BYU's?

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    Aug. 12, 2014 8:43 a.m.

    "There is proof that Vanderbilt isn't as good as the other teams. Is there proof that ESPN feels that way about BYU?"

    Vanderbilt has been to 3 consecutive bowl games and has gone 9-4 in each of the last 2 years, including 9-7 against their SEC schedule.

    "Alabama is ranked 95th this year in terms of strength of schedule, despite having Auburn, Texas A&M, LSU, and Ole Miss on the schedule."

    No, this is their sos merely using the ncaa method which solely uses the collective '13 record of their '14 opponents'. Alabama's sos ranking is significantly higher in other places, such as espn's and phil steele's. I guarantee U, ua's sos will finish light years ahead of byu's, upon playing against their 8 game sec schedule, plus West Virginia.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    Aug. 12, 2014 8:42 a.m.

    Riverton Cougar
    Riverton, UT
    @NightOwlAmerica,

    It's the Ute fans bringing up Temple getting kicked out here. If anything you helped BYU fans' points. There was a time when some BYU fans said that Utah and Colorado might get kicked out of the PAC 12 for not pulling their weight (citing Temple)

    Also, as you pointed out, there is "back door shenanigans of corrupt leadership" to help them stay in. You didn't help your Ute friends' point.

    I dare you to google "Ten Teams who should be kicked out of BCS conferences" and read the bleacher report article. Utah is not looked at in favorable light by P5 schools.

    _________

    It's not up to bleacher report to decide anything. And you selectively ignored the part about Temple being a football only member back then.
    That's right backdoor shenanigans. How is the Big East doing these days?
    Stuck on football again. This is exactly what you and several other BYU fans can't accept. Utah and Colorado were chosen for more than football. Academics, research etc are reasons why.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 8:39 a.m.

    Rufus,

    You are mixing politics and football. Utah wasn't invited for football, and BYU has not been invited yet, and it's not because of football. It's true that Utah is in a P5 conference, but as I told NightOwlAmerica they are not viewed favorably. Thank goodness the PAC doesn't allow kicking schools out and you better hope the U gets better before they change the rules.

    We are going to see a lot of change, I imagine. Don't assume that the change will be for the worst for BYU. Changes could lead to conferences expanding, or conferences swapping out members. We won't know for sure until we see it.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 8:10 a.m.

    @NightOwlAmerica,

    It's the Ute fans bringing up Temple getting kicked out here. If anything you helped BYU fans' points. There was a time when some BYU fans said that Utah and Colorado might get kicked out of the PAC 12 for not pulling their weight (citing Temple), many Ute fans stated that Temple could get kicked out because the Big East allowed kicking members, but the others don't.

    So, to answer your question, nobody has been kicked out because THEY CAN'T, according to your Ute friends.

    Also, as you pointed out, there is "back door shenanigans of corrupt leadership" to help them stay in. You didn't help your Ute friends' point.

    I dare you to google "Ten Teams who should be kicked out of BCS conferences" and read the bleacher report article. Utah is not looked at in favorable light by P5 schools.

  • never break .500 Los Angeles, CA
    Aug. 12, 2014 4:39 a.m.

    of course, all these Ute comments are hoping that BYU exits college football because it MIGHT make the Utes relevant in their own home state. Maybe not, because they never will have a winning season, but by default, some fans in the State will watch their efforts, right??

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    Aug. 11, 2014 10:01 p.m.

    I have a question for BYU fans here that brought up Temple being kicked out of the Big East.
    Why are you only telling part of the story?
    How come none of you gave the reason why? It's because Temple was a football only member of the Big East at the time. And before that they were denied full status for all sports in favor of Rutgers.
    In 1996 the Big East booted Temple, yet Rutgers was allowed to stay and had the same problems. Back door shenanigans of corrupt leadership to let them stay.
    In other words your straw man argument is meaningless. The Temple example does not apply.

    BTW- since that time how come nobody has been kicked out of the P5 conferences?

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 7:19 p.m.

    @Rufus T. Firefly

    "BYU is ranked 97th this year in terms of strength of schedule, while the Utes are ranked 11th. More than half of BYU's opponents this year are ranked even lower than BYU, i.e. Utah State, Middle Tennessee, Savannah State, Central Florida, etc. I guess that means that those BYU competitors' schedules aren't "strengthened" by BYU being added to their schedule, does it?"

    Alabama is ranked 95th this year in terms of strength of schedule, despite having Auburn, Texas A&M, LSU, and Ole Miss on the schedule. I guess that means that Alabama's schedule isn't "strengthened" by these teams?

    "And remember, Utah over BYU 4 out of 4, 9 out of 12....and to imply that BYU would fare better given a stronger or similar schedule to that of Utah, then just keep up that pipe dream....and that's reality!"

    You suggest that since Utah managed to beat BYU that BYU could in no way match or beat Utah's record if given their schedule? And you claim that as reality!? Wow. Honestly, we don't know how well BYU would do, although indicators suggest they very well could do better.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 7:02 p.m.

    "Hey thats just like how ESPN feels about BYU. In public they say its a great partnership. But ESPN is tired of mediocre ratings and BYU losing to ranked teams on their dime."

    There is proof that Vanderbilt isn't as good as the other teams. Is there proof that ESPN feels that way about BYU?

    "No, but a conference can "vote" a member out, just like when the Big East voted out Temple in 2004. . . . I can only assume that since no such vote is occurring for a team like Vanderbilt they are more relevant than a team who is on the outside looking in."

    But we have been told by Ute fans that Utah will not ever get kicked out no matter hbow poorly they do because conferences have their own rules dealing with membership and most, including the PAC 12, do not allow vote-kicking a member. So which is it?

  • Johnny Triumph American Fork, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 4:35 p.m.

    For now there will be success in p5 conferences for teams like Utah, teams that are near the bottom/middle of the standings but who perennially can't win the conference. Eventually the top teams will abandon those lower teams and will form some sort of huge alliance. Imagine what happens when all the teams who make a profit decide they're tired of sharing $$. They'll band together in some superconference.

    I think BYU needs to create their own brand of conference and invite a broad range of teams. Local TV will buy the rights. Then when the superconference starts up the cast offs will have to do the same, and will start at a disadvantage. Or join forces and create a super league of entertaining sports teams. Leave the power teams to their money, they'll fight it out and eventually hit the earnings ceiling. They'll have a ton of one and done players in football and for those kids it won't have anything to do with education, so those schools might as well drop the student part of the playing requirement. It all makes sense now.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 2:55 p.m.

    @waccy

    Nothing more pathetic than a utah "fan" that has supposedly "moved on" spending all of its time reading and commenting on BYU articles then constantly predicting the doom of the BYU sports program because you are really quote frightened by its existence. You, and all utah "fans", know that as long as BYU has an athletic program utah will always be second fiddle in this state and let's face the facts, utah will never be a draw or a factor in any other state at all. Your only hope to be more than a losing program firmly positioned in the bottom half of the pac12 is for BYU to go away because you hope that means the top LDS recruits, and instate recruits, will then all go to utah which is their only hope of ever being even vaguely competitive.

    Unfortunately for you those top LDS recruits, and even instate recruits, with very few exceptions won't then settle for the loser utah program, they'll instead go to ucla, stanford, or usc. Accept the reality that you will always be a bottom feeder because that is just the way it is.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 11, 2014 2:27 p.m.

    @Riverton Cougar

    @NightOwl,

    Of course a commissioner is not going to come out and say "Yeah, we wish we didn't have Vanderbilt in our conference".

    ----------

    No, but a conference can "vote" a member out, just like when the Big East voted out Temple in 2004.

    "The presidents and chancellors of the seven universities of the Big East Conference's I-A football league have voted to discontinue Temple University's membership,'' the Big East spokesman, John Paquette, said. Big East Commissioner Michael Tranghese said Temple consistently failed to meet criteria unanimously adopted by the members in 1996."

    I can only assume that since no such vote is occurring for a team like Vanderbilt they are more relevant than a team who is on the outside looking in.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    Aug. 11, 2014 2:07 p.m.

    Riverton Cougar
    Riverton, UT
    "Interesting, I don't hear any of the P5 commissioners and coaches talk about teams like that in their own conferences. Why do you think that is? If they were irrelevant they would get rid of them."

    @NightOwl,

    Of course a commissioner is not going to come out and say "Yeah, we wish we didn't have Vanderbilt in our conference". That's like expecting Whittingham to say "Yeah, finishing 2nd to last in our division this year sounds about right. We can't compete with the PAC".

    _______

    Hey thats just like how ESPN feels about BYU. In public they say its a great partnership. But ESPN is tired of mediocre ratings and BYU losing to ranked teams on their dime.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 12:58 p.m.

    "Interesting, I don't hear any of the P5 commissioners and coaches talk about teams like that in their own conferences. Why do you think that is? If they were irrelevant they would get rid of them."

    @NightOwl,

    Of course a commissioner is not going to come out and say "Yeah, we wish we didn't have Vanderbilt in our conference". That's like expecting Whittingham to say "Yeah, finishing 2nd to last in our division this year sounds about right. We can't compete with the PAC".

    @Uteology

    "The study I cited was for PAC-12 "out-of-state fans" traveling to Salt Lake. What does your fan-base have to do with the Big 12 fan's traveling and spending habits?"

    BYU fans in those areas may be more likely to travel to Provo. Don't you think it's possible for a BYU fan living in Oklahoma to also cheer for the Sooners or the Pokes as well? It's naive to think BYU to Big 12 wouldn't help the state of Utah economically, even if there hasn't been a study concerning Texas fans coming to Provo.

  • DrUte Woods Cross, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 12:52 p.m.

    Probably too soon to say what the ultimate outcome of all of this will be.

    Time will tell.

    We should expect additional aggressive action on the part of the P5, so much so that the numerator & denominator of the issue is as yet unclear.

    But it is unlikely the P5 will go quietly into the night. They have achieved a massive change in NCAA rulemaking, and are not the type of organizations that tend to sit on their hands.

    The marketing, financial, and recruiting windfall from these events may be beyond calculation.

    Imagine the gap five, ten, or fifteen years from now......

    No way to tell right now how this will all unfold.

    But it will most likely unfold based on the P5 agenda, clearly, since they appear to be well funded, lawyered up, united, and organized.

    Good luck out there.

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    Aug. 11, 2014 11:35 a.m.

    65TossPowerTrap
    Salmon, ID said:

    "The most irrelevant football programs are not successful mid-major programs (BYU and BSU). No, the most irrelevant football programs are the bottom-dwelling P-5 programs - Indiana, Kansas, Iowa State, Mississippi State, Colorado, Utah, etc."

    Another BYU fan that feels BYU deserves to be in a P5 conference rather than earn it.
    Interesting, I don't hear any of the P5 commissioners and coaches talk about teams like that in their own conferences. Why do you think that is? If they were irrelevant they would get rid of them.

  • Whoa Nellie American Fork, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 11:17 a.m.

    If BYU ever drops football I would have to move out of state to find another high caliber college team to support.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 11, 2014 11:08 a.m.

    @Riverton Cougar

    @Uteology,

    If Utah being in a P5 conference brings in that much to the state, imagine if BYU (with their bigger fan base, bigger stadium, etc) were invited to the Big 12. Why do you oppose it so much?

    -------------

    The study I cited was for PAC-12 "out-of-state fans" traveling to Salt Lake. What does your fan-base have to do with the Big 12 fan's traveling and spending habits?

    Why do I need to imagine? Since Texas (Big 12) played in Provo last season, do you have any numbers to show that game's "substantial" local economic impact?

  • truth in all its forms henderson, NV
    Aug. 11, 2014 10:54 a.m.

    BYU provo should do what all other byus are doing and just get rid of collegiate sports. The intramural program will allow more students the opportunity to participate in sports.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 11, 2014 9:35 a.m.

    @Bluto

    And as to your obsession with seeing BYU's demise...Don't hold your breath.
    They are now and in the future will continue to be more financially solvent than will the U.

    The 40 low level teams in the P-5 Conferences (Utah, Wazzu etc..)are State schools and will suffer the most. Add Title-9 to the mix and it is very problematic for U.

    ------------

    And I would say the same to you sir on your obsession with Utah's demise. Don't worry about the U, be happy about the Y having such "deep" pockets.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 11, 2014 9:31 a.m.

    @Bluto

    So you're no fan of "substantial" economic growth? Nor are you a fan of job creators (Utah football, men's basketball). And I am willing to bet you have no problem with tax payers subsidizing multi-billion dollar organizations?

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 8:57 a.m.

    @Uteology,

    If Utah being in a P5 conference brings in that much to the state, imagine if BYU (with their bigger fan base, bigger stadium, etc) were invited to the Big 12. Why do you oppose it so much?

    Ute fans seem to be determined to see BYU fail and I can't understand why. They don't want BYU in a P5 conference and claim that if they were they would go 2-10. I think the U fans' greatest fear is for BYU to actually have 2 or more winning seasons in the first 5 years of Big 12 membership (if that happens I can already hear the excuses now . . . "The PAC-12 is stronger than the Big 12", "Utah was invited first, so they're better", "You avoided having to play Oklahoma and Texas during your first two years", etc.).

  • 65TossPowerTrap Salmon, ID
    Aug. 11, 2014 8:44 a.m.

    The most irrelevant football programs are not successful mid-major programs (BYU and BSU). No, the most irrelevant football programs are the bottom-dwelling P-5 programs - Indiana, Kansas, Iowa State, Mississippi State, Colorado, Utah, etc.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 7:40 a.m.

    Answer...

    No, taxpayers do not want to fund a perpetually losing U of U athletic department.
    As for tourism in Utah, that has to do with the great outdoors, Industry, historic sights, National parks and skiing.

    And as to your obsession with seeing BYU's demise...Don't hold your breath.
    They are now and in the future will continue to be more financially solvent than will the U.

    The 40 low level teams in the P-5 Conferences (Utah, Wazzu etc..)are State schools and will suffer the most. Add Title-9 to the mix and it is very problematic for U.

    Conference tie in, Independence....either way, BYU is just fine, Thank You.

    Just worry about your insolvent, debt ridden, smallest budget, U of U Athletic Department, instead of BYU's fiscally responsible programs. Especially in the middle of the night.

  • mufasta American Fork, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 7:29 a.m.

    I disagree with Rock on this one. I think BYU is better positioned than all but 3 or 4 programs in the country to deal with the new rules. Go Cougs

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 11, 2014 12:58 a.m.

    @tcom2011

    I think the biggest question for both teams is, so people want to continue funding these sports.

    BYU - to grow it will take donors, do they want to do that with their money?

    UofU - Do the tax payers really want to fund your arms race?

    --------------

    Depends, do tax payers want substantial economic benefits? Do they want to drive tourism through "exposure"?

    [A study] found that Utah's involvement in the Pac-12 has brought "substantial" economic growth to the state... The study looked at out-of-state football fans attending four football games at Rice-Eccles Stadium. In 2012 alone, out-of-state fans spent an estimated $2.3 million on travel, food and lodging... The study found that approximately 275 jobs were created and a total of $6.6 million was generated during the time evaluated. State tax revenue was approximately $660,000... Researchers also found that the overall impression of the state received favorable reviews. Of fans polled, 62 percent said they were more likely to visit in the future."

    NOTE: The above $6.6 million benefits to local employees was only from FOUR football games.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Aug. 10, 2014 11:08 p.m.

    "Unfortunately that is all BYU fans have! They are living off the 84' title and their WAC legacy.
    Yep, the good old days."

    Yes those were the best days BYU has had as of yet, but that WAC legacy still is a much longer and more complete dynasty than 2 seasons of glory. Even in Utah's "Golden Decade", BYU finished ranked more than Utah did and had more 10+ win seasons.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    Aug. 10, 2014 8:05 p.m.

    tcom2011,

    Utah has a few donors of it's own. Ever heard of Spence Eccles? Jon M. Huntsman Sr.? There's a constant influx from former Utes that have succeeded in the NFL. Yes, and most delicious are the tax dollars from happy valley.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 10, 2014 7:36 p.m.

    tcom2011
    Fort Worth, TX

    "BYU - to grow it will take donors, do they want to do that with their money?

    UofU - Do the tax payers really want to fund your arms race?"

    LOL! No, the tax payers don't want to fund the arms race. The really great part is...the tax payers won't have to. Why? Because the tax payers have never given Utah athletics a dime and never will.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    Aug. 10, 2014 5:34 p.m.

    311ute
    Reno, NV
    What is most frustrating about some of these comments, is people wishing for the good old days of college football.

    _____

    Unfortunately that is all BYU fans have! They are living off the 84' title and their WAC legacy.
    Yep, the good old days.

  • WhoRtheUtes??? Elko, NV
    Aug. 10, 2014 5:25 p.m.

    I think a few of these comments are spot on. This will effect all of the D-1 schools in Utah and my State of Nevada. Not sure I like the change to college football. I have been a fan for soooo long, but, when it starts to become semi pro and the potential for certain schools of the southeast to use this to buy athletes, then I don't know.... already a good portion of the big boys football world is reeling from the loss of decades old rivalries.

  • 3grandslams Iowa City, IA
    Aug. 10, 2014 4:20 p.m.

    Because BYU is about more than just winning games, they will be around for a long time and will compete financially too. The program is for good kids who want to avoid or escape environments that are destructive to a persons self worth. This appeals to both LDS kids and non-LDS kids and in future years will become very attractive. Ricks College couldn't do that. BYU can.

  • JD Las Vegas, NV
    Aug. 10, 2014 3:51 p.m.

    I am pretty confident that BYU can establish itself as a Top 10 Division II team when everything is all said and done. But think about it, if division status changes, as it sounds like it will, March Madness could only include the Power 5 conferences, major bowl games will be tied to the Power 5 conferences, and in order to make that work, equal equity among the Power 5 conferences may exist. ESPN might only be tied to Division 1 teams with the changes ahead, which does not include Provo. BYU should probably stop spending energy begging to get into a Power 5 conference, (because they all have said "no way") and start repairing relationships with their future division teammates. The "I'm better than anyone else" attitude of the last 20 years has really not sat well, its been very pompous. Accept reality, be all you can be in Division II.

  • tcom2011 Fort Worth, TX
    Aug. 10, 2014 3:35 p.m.

    Uteology, interesting numbers???

    I have never seen any reports that show UofU making money.

    I think the biggest question for both teams is, so people want to continue funding these sports.

    BYU - to grow it will take donors, do they want to do that with their money?

    UofU - Do the tax payers really want to fund your arms race?

    Either way this is bad new for Utah football as a whole. But lets all go on and beat our own chests! I was a student athlete - but even I would consider letting both of these programs die out.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 10, 2014 3:19 p.m.

    Duckhunter
    Highland, UT

    Interesting, but not suprising, that some utah "fans" are once again on here posting that this will be the demise of BYU. This despite the fact that BYU dominates the debt ridden program in salt lake in finances and profitability.

    ------------

    Which program's? It's certainly not football and men's basketball:

    Utah Football: ~$13 million profit last reported year
    BYU Football: ~$4 million profit last reported year

    Utah Men's Basketball: $5,425,714 - $4,155,280 = $1,270,434 profit
    BYU Men's Basketball: $5,352,790 - $5,352,790 = $0 profit

    Source: U.S. Department of Education

  • Robert Johnson Sunland, CA
    Aug. 10, 2014 2:51 p.m.

    Brad Rock....can you be any more naïve? Seriously. I'm wondering whether this was a serious article or if you had your tongue in your cheek the entire time. BYU draw a line in the sand? They would be laughed right off the field. And just to put it in perspective, I am not a member of the "hate everything BYU" club. Although I am a Utah fan, I would love to see BYU get an invite to join the Big 12. Honestly, that would be great for football in the state of Utah and is realistically the only shot that BYU has to stave off irrelevance. The idea that BYU has the power to draw a line in the sand is incredibly naïve.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Aug. 10, 2014 2:36 p.m.

    Uh....BYU's men's soccer program already is a professional team playing in a professional league and they put it there by choice. What that means is that we already know BYU is willing to put a program into a professional league without to many qualms. Football becoming more like a professional league hardly seems like it would be a deterrent to a school that already sponsors a professional team in a much less cared about sport.

  • 311ute Reno, NV
    Aug. 10, 2014 1:59 p.m.

    What is most frustrating about some of these comments, is people wishing for the good old days of college football. The NCAA has been using student athletes for decades and has thrown them to the curb when they are done with them. Now, the schools that have the money can provide more for its students. Gone are the days of the students not having enough to eat and not having enough long term medical care for injuries that result in participation. This is progress for everyone. For those saying it's all about the money, of course it is. But we the fans are the cause of it being all about the money. We the fans have made this game so popular. We the fans tune in and watch in large numbers that result in the large TV contracts. Fact its, we the fans have made college football big business.

    With regards to BYU, it will be very interesting to see how this plays out for them. My guess is that they will provide the same level of increases at P5 schools.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Aug. 10, 2014 1:56 p.m.

    Yep!

    It's time for BYU to drop football.

    Leave the greedy train.

    I'll adapt to something else.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Aug. 10, 2014 1:50 p.m.

    One question to ask is:

    If student athletes should be paid a stipend because they are the guys on the court/field doing the stuff that brings revenue to the program, then should we also pay the musicians in the performing groups, or the dancers in the dance companies, or the actors in the drama department, or any student who participates in any performing role for any ticketed event?

    If not, why not?

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Aug. 10, 2014 1:43 p.m.

    This column says, maybe this, maybe that. I'm not sure I learned anything from it or gleaned a position by the writer.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    Aug. 10, 2014 1:41 p.m.

    There are several problems here:

    1. What about all the other sports? Football and Basketball generate revenue. Other sports do not. They depend on the money makers to survive. The "arms race" will hurt them the most. Maybe the P5 can afford to give benefits to everyone. To compete, other schools will start dropping more and more "non-revenue" sports in order to survive.

    2. A lot of these Taj Mahal facilities were built by Big Donors. They may be willing to foot the bill for a football palace at a power-house school, but others will have to settle for a nice scoreboard. That's another area of "competition" that is often overlooked.

    3. When does "paying the true cost attendance" turn into a bidding war? Who is going to set a limit on this? I can see a day coming when P5 schools will give athletes more than the non-elite schools can afford.

    The end result is that more and more money will go to fewer and fewer schools.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 10, 2014 1:12 p.m.

    Last reported revenues and expenses:

    Utah football: $27,640,267 - $14,362,313 = $13,277,954
    Utah basketball: $5,574,287 - $6,350,110 = ($775,823) (women's basketball is over $2M in red)

    BYU football: $18,639,413 - $14,428,930 = $4,210,483
    BYU basketball: $6,937,135 - $6,937,134 = $1

    It's clear why BYU is begging the Big 12 for an invite.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    Aug. 10, 2014 12:07 p.m.

    Duckhunter,

    It won't an arms race between the schools and conferences in the P5. It will be an arms race for byu to keep up with the P5. Not just in matching the benefits extended to players. Mr. Rock points out that while byu's facilities are still modern and impressive, they pale in comparison to the newer and currently being built ones in the P5. No doubt, byu can keep up...but will the governing body allow that? The problem for byu remains exclusion, scheduling and relevance.

  • Stringer Bell Henderson, NV
    Aug. 10, 2014 11:59 a.m.

    Re: SLC BYU fan

    Whatever concerns BYU may have at this time, the threat of an NFL team is certainly not one of them. SLC will not have an NFL team in any of our lifetimes.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 10, 2014 11:50 a.m.

    "As Rick College proved, at some point, having a fine school alone might need to be good enough."

    Well said. I'm a Utah fan and I enjoy college football, but frankly I miss the old days of the WAC.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    Aug. 10, 2014 11:21 a.m.

    Duckhunter
    Highland, UT
    Interesting, but not suprising, that some utah "fans" are once again on here posting that this will be the demise of BYU. This despite the fact that BYU dominates the debt ridden program in salt lake in finances and profitability.

    I think this simply shows their inferiority complexes, they know utah cannot compete with BYU when it comes to an arms race, it frightens them, and so they lash out, calling for the end to BYU athletics because ultimately they know they are no better than a money losing second fiddle to BYU. Always have been, always will be. lol

    _____________

    Absolute denial right there. The inferiority complex is in your very own post. I don't care if BYU is in the black. You can't compete on the field, beat ranked teams, and you are in the WCC with other sports.
    Oh by the way, 40+ years and counting, you are still on the outside looking in. If the athletic department bankroll of BYU mattered you would be in a P5 conference already. Don't you think?

    Go ahead an attempt to brag all you want. It's not working.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 10, 2014 11:18 a.m.

    "BYU has the following and the resources. The place makes money, something only a handful of universities accomplish.

    So when the Y. says it intends to remain viable in the face of the NCAA's new reforms, it's a convincing argument. Because of its ESPN contract, private television network and debt-free facilities, BYU can afford things many programs; including most of the mid-majors; can't."
    -Brad Rock

    This notion is repeated so often that I have to wonder if that's the reason it is accepted as fact. Does anyone actually know the extent to which byu athletics' pockets are over flowing with cash? I don't doubt they operate in the black but is all the bluster about being able to keep up with the P5s really appropriate...

    Rock...the next time you are looking for story go find out where the basketball practice facility is that Holmoe has been promising for the last 10 years.

    B Barnard
    Salt Lake City, UT

    "...when you add what BYU will make when it will join the Big 12 or another Power 5 conference, it will be fine."

    Hmmmmm...ever heard the phrase - 'putting the cart before the horse.'

  • New to Utah PAYSON, UT
    Aug. 10, 2014 10:18 a.m.

    BYU should do everything it can to have a first rate football program. Football is the most popular sport in America and certainly in Utah and College Football is the headliner.These athletes, most retire after college football go on to contribute to society in meaningful ways.The discipline,teamwork, and leadership skills benefit society in so many ways. It is a great sport and fans love it.

  • What in Tucket? Provo, UT
    Aug. 10, 2014 10:12 a.m.

    BYU has a TV audience that must be far greater than most universities and it is growing. I like what they are doing. The team keeps knocking on the door of the top 25 and the door will open one of these years.

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    Aug. 10, 2014 9:39 a.m.

    Two points:

    First, This doesn't just affect BYU football but all non FBS schools and will need to be the concern of lawmakers as it has in other anti-trust cases

    Second, I'd like the SLC sportwriters to tell the taxpayers how Utah (and other schools) have funded their facilities when they are underwritten by taxpayers and supplemented by donors. What's the difference in the funding model between the Salt Palace and RES? Are any funds being co-mingled? How much is funded by taxpayer money??

    If you want to see some real money being thrown at college sports, look at the facilities at Nebraska, Ohio State and Florida...

    No, there's not much difference between some programs and the NFL. Sad...

  • Yerffoegn Maricopa, Az
    Aug. 10, 2014 9:35 a.m.

    81ute. Wishful thinking on your part. I don't believe your Utes are one of those in the black. BYU will be in the thick of recruiting the best lds kids as they ways have. Throw in a smattering of non lds kids and nothing will change. BYU is in it for the long haul.

  • Surf is Up Miami, FL
    Aug. 10, 2014 9:14 a.m.

    With college tuition being what it is these days, a full ride athletic scholarship is still pretty decent compensation to "student athletes". I realize that the blowhards in college football are pretending to be concerned about the athlete, but in the end it is all about money and how "they" can exploit college athletics even more for their own gain.

    If they were really serious about their concerns for the athlete they could relax the laws about the number of scholarships each program has, as well as a few others relating to gifts and or meals etc, without completely ripping up the landscape of one of the great past times in America. It will backfire and implode.

    I predict that BYU coffers will overflow from the support it gets from its following. This has to have them ticked off and motivated. I personally intend on donating much more to BYU athletics in the coming years.

    It is the state tax funded schools that will be in big trouble. Especially the so called "elites" that remain at the bottom of their conferences.

  • M. Butler Brooklyn, NY
    Aug. 10, 2014 8:48 a.m.

    "The last thing the LDS Church needs to be operating is a quasi-professional football team."

    Who are you kidding? It already is. Except that the players aren't getting paid.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Aug. 10, 2014 8:14 a.m.

    Interesting, but not suprising, that some utah "fans" are once again on here posting that this will be the demise of BYU. This despite the fact that BYU dominates the debt ridden program in salt lake in finances and profitability.

    I think this simply shows their inferiority complexes, they know utah cannot compete with BYU when it comes to an arms race, it frightens them, and so they lash out, calling for the end to BYU athletics because ultimately they know they are no better than a money losing second fiddle to BYU. Always have been, always will be. lol

  • mdp Bountiful, utah
    Aug. 10, 2014 7:57 a.m.

    The rising cost of higher education is largely being driven by non-related costs- athletics is one of them, as are meeting the ridiculous rules imposed by the Feds and conferences. Id just as soon eliminate collegiate sports altogether, and leave selling tickets to the pro teams/ Concentrate on educating our kids, and little else.

  • B Barnard Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 10, 2014 7:40 a.m.

    BYU is one of the few programs that are running in the black now, and when you add what BYU will make when it will join the Big 12 or another Power 5 conference, it will be fine. I think it can afford extra food, insurance and larger scholarships.

  • Cats Somewhere in Time, UT
    Aug. 10, 2014 7:17 a.m.

    Money has ruined college sports.

  • ItrustNo1 La Grange, TN
    Aug. 10, 2014 6:40 a.m.

    I'm sure BYU recognizes the importance of its sports Brand and will continue to do what ever is asked of it to keep it strong. This article refers to BYU facilities as if they need immediate improvements to keep up with the Jones. Who has a better Basketball facility? The athletic building is much better than 90% of those schools who even have one. The Baseball facility is great. Lets talk Soccer, La Cross, Rugby, Tennis and on and on. Plans are in the mix to build a training center for Basketball. Who has a better football Stadium in Utah? It has always been ranked in the top 25 college facilities in the country. I'm sorry, but I don't get this article. Sure things can always be better but that can be said about any school's facilities. Overall, I'd say BYU is among the best sports facilities in this country. No sad story here is necessary.

  • niners SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Aug. 10, 2014 5:54 a.m.

    Ironically there have been so many comments from Utah and BYU fans over the last 2 days arguing over what team this impacts worse. This impacts both schools negatively. BYU will now either be forced to leave the WCC in all other sports in order to pay the football players more stipend money, or turn their football program into a second tier team by staying on level with the MWC, AAC in order to keep their sports in the WCC. On the other hand BYU fans are laughing at Utah for not having enough money to compete with the USC and Oregon's of the PAC (which they will not be able to, Oregon and USC have nearly an unlimited budget and there is no shame in not being able to compete with them financially). This is bad for college sports in Utah period. Do we dislike each other so much we just want to see the other program crumble a little quicker than our own? This isn't a Utah vs BYU argument, we both lose.

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    Aug. 10, 2014 4:09 a.m.

    This is getting old but it hasn't really begun yet. The 'Armageddon' of college football is yet to come. Only their will be no millennial rescue for collegiate sports (bad guys win). Burying my head in the sand won't make it go away but I don't know how many more articles like this I can read without going insane. It's obvious why we read one of these daily here locally but pretty soon markets everywhere will be constantly reading how irrelevant or even obsolete their programs/teams have become. Utah is also affected (not just BYU). As things play out, I don't see BYU dropping their program but I wouldn't be surprised either. Though the Utes are in the P5 circle, they could find themselves out of it, or unable to succeed inside of it. CF Landscape changes not only involves financial survival but economic viability and competitive possibility. The latter will effect many solid P5 programs across the country. Some schools (Alabama & Ohio State to name a few) have long been written in the football book of life and are going to succeed as the oppressors pets.

  • I Bleed Blue Las Vegas, NV
    Aug. 10, 2014 12:15 a.m.

    Pray tell. Why would the WCC care about how BYU treats it's football student athletes? They are independent in football.

  • IQ92 hi, UT
    Aug. 10, 2014 12:08 a.m.

    Sports idolatry--sign of the times. That's okay; it's fun.

  • kfbob SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Aug. 10, 2014 12:08 a.m.

    Rock, I think you are right on the money. BYU may have to fold up shop in football. That would allow us to have a Rugby and soccer teams (NCAA). Sports are important but probably not worth the amount of emphasis that we place on them.

  • Back Talk Federal Way, WA
    Aug. 9, 2014 11:46 p.m.

    Football is becoming so "corporate" sponsored that it really is a semi pro leage. The Universitys are simply selling their names and loyal fan bases in order to benefit financially. I dont know what "long term" is anymore but I dont believe BYU will want to participate "long term" in an even more professional league. IT could be over much sooner than many people think.

  • Lambo Clearfield, UT
    Aug. 9, 2014 11:03 p.m.

    It is hard situation because colleges exploit their athletes, in that they make boatloads of money and students don't really see much of that, on the other hand, you hate to see universities hiring athletes to represent them, kind of takes away the passion. I have found when I do something I love for money, I feel much less passionate about it. Conversely when I do it for the love of the activity itself not for payment, I am much more passionate about it. I would not feel comfortable with BYU paying its athletes, I want people to come to play for BYU for the right reasons, I didn't get paid to be a missionary getting paid would have made the work seem hollow.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Aug. 9, 2014 10:39 p.m.

    With the O'Bannon decision and a NCAA cap of $5000 per year above the scholarship for compensation and unionization I'm not sure where this is going. A huge headache for colleges I am sure.

    I can see a very lop-sided field in the future. This will surely lead to antitrust litigation.

    I think it could spell doom for many unprofitable athletic programs in the interim.

    Greed is going to destroy amateur sports.

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 9, 2014 10:33 p.m.

    All these articles talk as if BYU acts in a vacuum and free of outside influences. What is the effect of Title IX on whatever course BYU decides. Also as SoonerUte says how does the WCC come into play? Sport writers seem to believe, or at least in their coverage, BYU really is independent of outside considerations.

  • high school fan Huntington, UT
    Aug. 9, 2014 9:50 p.m.

    Just because you can doesn't mean you should, sometimes you just have to say no. With college athletics potentially changing so much, it just might be worth it. I would hope all schools would remember exactly why they exist and to be good in sports should never be in the top five reasons.

  • Justmythoughts Provo, UT
    Aug. 9, 2014 9:48 p.m.

    College football has really changed the last 10 years and not for the better...it's all about $$$$$$. I miss the good ole' days when student athletes were just that....student athletes.

  • 81Ute Central, UT
    Aug. 9, 2014 9:44 p.m.

    Wether I agree or not, the future of college athletics is obvious. However, it appears that Mr. Rock and Mr. Harmon of the Desnews are oblivious. Are you really that supportive of BYU that you have become blind to the real implications of these changes? Do you really believe that the 'mid-majors' collectively contribute very much to the total revenue of the NCAA? Texas alone has a budget as large as the MWC schools. BYU can't compete, the church won't allow it. Accept it and move on. The train has left the station.

  • BioPowertrain Detroit, MI
    Aug. 9, 2014 9:42 p.m.

    I think there's a lot of room for creativity here. Perhaps BYU can customize their football & basketball player scholarship guarantees. I think these athletes are still forced to choose between playing & getting a truly worthwhile education. You just don't see athletes getting STEM degrees and I'm telling you, that's the reason why: mens football & basketball players who study too much are considered "uncommitted" to their program. Yes, you have the occasional freak like Jeff Hornacek or Kevin Lockett, but two out of thousands and thousands and thousands doesn't cut it.

    Perhaps the school could reduce player coursework requirements to 9-12 hours per semester, cover the full cost of attendance through the years of eligibility, then cover tuition, books & fees for 2 or 3 years after their eligibility expires. That would allow them to both play and develop proficiency in a skill set they can build a career on. Maybe that's not the exact formula, but something like that, would be more appealing to many students (parents!) than getting their bling on for 4 years, then working as an assistant junior high school football coach for the rest of their lives.

  • SLC BYU Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 9, 2014 8:51 p.m.

    As I've said before Brad, should BYU move forward and at the very least drop its football program, there could be some far reaching unintended consequences. These could range from UVU starting a program that in less than a decade could dwarf Utah State's (Boise State doing this to Idaho is a classic example). Still further NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell has made it known he wishes to increase the amount of non-Sunday media inventory in any future media deals with the networks, and given Salt Lake City's population and media market size now it is on the leagues expansion and relocation list in the group just after Los Angeles and Toronto (Portland, Salt Lake City, Sacramento & Orlando are now the biggest in North America without the NFL). But this could also hurt the BYU donor base hard, cheapen the student experience and even dilute the value of a BYU undergraduate degree without raising the value or enhancing the value for Utah State which is the motive if any of the powers that be for dropping the program.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 9, 2014 8:34 p.m.

    Disappointing to see another article speak of "the arms race" as only affecting BYU football. BYU athletics are not independent. BYU's membership in the WCC conference affects football.

    BYU would not be allowed to pay a stipend only to the football team. They'd have to provide benefits to all their athletes. Each conference decides what stipends will be paid. If the WCC decides they want stipend-free basketball, BYU will either have to leave the conference or agree not to pay stipends. No stipends for basketball? No stipend for football.

  • stonewall Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 9, 2014 8:06 p.m.

    I don't know what Rock thinks is happening in major athletics. College football becoming indistinguishable from the NFL? How dense can you be? Adding some meals, slightly larger stipends, and more health insurance benefits now equates to 6 and 7-figure salaries and pension plans and year-round camps and negotiated contracts? Yeah, that's moving toward being nearly identical. This movement toward expanded benefits is much more about separating the haves from the have-nots than the P5 from everybody else. Yes, the two are largely the same, but not entirely. And BYU proves that there is some non-overlap between the two disparate distinctions.

    The reality is BYU is financially viable in a way few athletic departments are. Twenty-two FBS athletic departments actually made money last year. That's less than half of all P5 schools. BYU was one of them. They're just fine and fully capable at this point in time of financing anything the rest of the P5 schools are. If that changes, maybe they should close up shop. But then again, maybe so should the other 40 P5 schools that can't operate in the black.

    Nice perspective, Rock. I feel very enlightened

  • ManInTheMiddle SANDY, UT
    Aug. 9, 2014 8:02 p.m.

    I'll put my dollars behind BYU if they continue to make a commitment to compete with the big boys....