Bronco made it clear that BYU will do whatever is necessary and beneficial,
within reason, to support student athletes.
How will this impact members of the 65 schools that are already operating in the
red? Will they shutdown sports programs that don't make money and not carry
so many student athletes?
When you couple this with the ESPN article today about the continued talk of
having the big boys play ONLY other big boys, this would be the END of any
dreams that mid majors have of ever doing anything on a national stage.Goodbye to any playoff hopes. Goodbye to national titles. Its all gone.It's a bad bad time to be a mid major.Oh well, glad I
don't have to worry!Bye bye mid majors. You're done.
I agree with Chris B on this much, "The divide is getting bigger and bigger
between the power 5 and the mid majors." Never in my years have
I seen so much pompous and hubristic chest beating about being a "power
school." The divide IS widening. And it is not in level of play (See UCF
just last year for example).
If the Utes are a Power 5 school, their source of power must be cold fusion.
Follow the money. It's always the problem. But it's NOT just the money
because revenue and the abundance of it can be justified as what it is here in
this college football power conference autonomy debate. And this largely comes
from supply and demand. Basically, despite opposition from some fan bases, by
and large sports consumers, many/most of us feed the beast here. Yes money is
the problem, but it's the corruption and shady circulation and distribution
of the money that gives the 'Good Ole Boys' the power. They use a bowl
structure and minor tweak playoff system along with mass marketing to keep
college football fans interested around the country, some who might firmly
oppose them if they were say a fan of BYU.
christinaYou obviously don't understand the golden rule
here.He who has the gold, makes the rules.As soon the
elite, big money teams get through cannibalizing the mid-majors, guess who
they're going to cannibalize next.Do you really think that
elite teams like USC, Ohio St, and Texas are going to allow teams like Utah to
continue feeding at the trough when they no longer need you?Before
you have time to gloat about BYU's demise, your own demise will be a
There are schools outside the power 5 in other conferences or independent teams
like BYU that are more worthy of inclusion than the bottom half of the schools
in the power 5 that feed off of and benefit from the conferences best and
historic teams at the top. So, although there are intriguing and competitive
positives that some sports fans can see with these changes of Power 5 economic
and competitive dominance (of which I like as well), there is also an unbalanced
prejudice of power. But such is capitalism historically.
College sports, especially football, is a business. It's about recruiting
the best players and making huge sums of money off their ability to entertain
people on Saturday afternoon. In return, the players can earn a degree for
free. For the NCAA to pretend it isn't a business and is about the kids is
ridiculous at best. However, it is free enterprise. If the Mountain West and
other conferences wanted to put more money into marketing its programs and
getting more people to watch them play, they could take advantage of this huge
cash cow they call football. It's all about TV revenue and advertising
drives TV revenue. The more people who watch your conference play, the more
money your conference makes regardless of the 5 five or not. If I were the
Mountain West, I would be hiring Donald Trump to run my conference. Not some
I think BYU's days in the NCAA are numbered.
Take the stock market for example, it changes and in some time cycles, profits
the robber barons more. Right now in college sports we are seeing the kinds of
problems with some worthy schools outside the Power 5 that compare on a smaller
scale with persons of contribution (great inventors and scientists) during the
1920s that were negatively effected via loss of financial prosperity and grant
reduction during the 1890s up until the 'Great Depession'. Back in
that era (although it's still the case to a certain degree) it was easy for
the big financial players and ultra wealthy controllers of the market to take
all the money they could from those that help create it, leaving them with
hardly a little to stew on. Tesla had much of his science repressed and his
inventions patented by the richest profiteers that saw the stock market as their
exclusive playground. Obviously there are still and probably always will be
moral questions with the market core, but I think the 'Good Ole Boy'
network in college sports is relegating those outside their circle as being free
game for sack, pillage and plunder. Conservatives locally might realize that BYU
could suffer here.
I have long despised the BCS and the 'Bowl Coalition' that preceded
it. Although I was stoked and I still am about Utah being in the PAC 12, I never
for a moment switched over into a BCS lover. What we are seeing now with the
'Power 5' autonomy situation disgusts me.
Gotta love Chris B deluded in believing his/her team is a Rottweiler when in
fact it is a Chihuahua. Lots and lots and lots of barking and no bite. The
Chihuahua is in the PAC not because of its athletic pedigree, but because it was
needed as a place holder. It is in the PAC solely because Baylor was made a
part of the deal by the Texas legislature and the PAC refused because it was a
religion sponsored school. There was another religion sponsored school in close
proximity with a much better pedigree, but likewise, the PAC didn't go for
it because of its religious principles.Bottom line is that the
Chihuahua is a little dog that thinks its a big dog.
I think what Chris B and others miss is that not all 65 of the schools in the
power 5 are operating in the black. In fact most are not. What this decision
does is allow the top 10-20 programs in the nation widen the divide. It will
cause some of the P5 schools to drop out of the P5 and continue to widen the gap
within the P5 schools. Great, Utah is a P5 school. Do you really think they will
be able to compete with Oregon or USC for athletic funding and increasing the
benefits to players? Recall the difference in the NFL before the salary cap and
free agency? This just ensures Utah will remain non-competitive in the PAC 12.
The elitists that are cheering their separation from the mid-majors will soon
find they've been separated from the winners in their own conference. But
hey...you can still take pride in that PAC 12 shirt.
Want to hear a joke? "Today’s vote marks a significant
step into a brighter future for Division I athletics," said Nathan Hatch,
board chair and Wake Forest University president, who also chaired the steering
committee that redesigned the structure. "We hope this decision not only
will allow us to focus more intently on the well-being of our student-athletes
but also preserve the tradition of Division I as a diverse and inclusive group
of schools competing together on college athletics’ biggest stage."Okay let's break this down. First off it's Wake Forest. They
deserve 'Power 5' autonomy about as much as Mickey Mousse. Moving on
we have the contradiction of all time; "diverse and inclusive." Those
two words go together like sardines on a chocolate cake.
No worries if Tom and Bronco say things will be OK. We are a legacy program
with all sorts of legends and 1 Billion people in China watching our games.
Say what you want about the bigs and the littles or the haves and have nots,
this experiment has been tried over and over throughout history and the
conclusion is always the same. Proverbs 16:18Old TestamentPride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
If the P5 teams were only to play with themselves, would it reduce the number of
people watching college football? Would it reduce the value to the advertisers
who inspire the enormous TV contracts? Would it actually decrease overall
interest in and revenue that college football generates? Without mid-majors to
play, many more P5 teams will end up with .500 or lower records and not be
eligible for bowl games. Without bowl games and winning records, will boosters
be willing to pay for the extra benefits that are coming? Don't forget
another golden rule--don't kill the golden goose!
@JDLSay what you want about the bigs and the littles or the haves
and have nots, this experiment has been tried over and over throughout history
and the conclusion is always the same.---------------The
rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and the middle class gets screwed. Too Big to Fail comes to mind in recent history.
BYU has the resources to pay athletes rather they are independent or not. But
ethically, this won't happen. The church won't place football over
money spent on matters considered by them to be more spiritually important.
There is no doubt that there is an 'exposure' element to missionary
work via football, at least when the 'exposure' is positive, and it
usually is. But this doesn't make football a spiritual matter. Personally, I think athletes should receive compensation for their part in
revenue production. They ought to get more in return for the sacrifice of their
bodies on the gridiron. But it's a slippery slope. Some schools (think SEC)
will place so much value on football glory over education and moral principle,
that they will go way overboard relative to what others can keep up with. There
are boosters in certain regions with affiliations to certain universities (quiet
on specifics) that make their money via corruption. These individuals will also
donate their money wrapped in corruption because it comes full circle according
to their own narrow minded selfishness. They spend money like they make it.
It's all about them and their school.
Gone is the building of character of the student (football) athleteGone
are academicsGone are traditionsGone are years old rivalriesGone is the amateurMoney is here, and it is here to stay.
In the sense of providing total cost of education to athletes, this is a good
deal for those who need it. Athletes even in olympic sports spend a great deal
of time and resources. But this is primarily about football, which pays the
bills. I'm certainly OK with giving athletes, working 30 or more hours per
week during the season, to receive "walking around money." I know first
hand how stressful it is to be a student with tuition and books paid, but not
enough money to eat well, let alone date.However, the Power
conference thing is nothing but creating a monopoly. They want to grab all the
TV money and monopolize the college football TV time. Since only 10% of the P5
teams are operating in the black, I suspect that only the SEC and Big10 will
really benefit. PAC12 is isolated on the left coast, so their coverage and
payout will be less.This is not good, it is nothing short of a power
grab by certain wealthy schools.
Whittingham says that he's in favor of it now. A year or two more of losing
seasons and he'll be complaining about the system when he's coaching
@ MacNastyTranslation: " WHAAAAaaaaaa. Everybody picks on the
poor, little (actually giant and wealthy) religious schools."Utah has the academic profile that fits the PAC-12. BYU does not. It's
The dividing line between "Have" and "Have Nots" is becoming
very clear. Karma!
@Chris B.So - - - Utah was once a mid major, in fact not long ago
you were once a lowly nobody. You were able to rise above the basement that you
once lived in, and by some good fortune you were able to play in New Years Day
Bowl, and by some freak luck you were a desperation third choice to be a member
of the PAC. And now that you are in, you gladly slam the door
behind you, denying anyone else the opportunity that was once yours. Have you ever heard of Karma?
The end result of this is that there will be a new division created within the
NCAA. This new division will have its own championships and rules. Because of
our current laws, the new rules will have to apply to all of their sports
equally. The ones that will be scrambling around, looking for a home, will be
the rest of the FBS, D1 schools. The FCS, D1 schools already have this thing
figured out. There may well be a move toward more consolidation between the
non-B5, FBS schools and the FCS schools. All of which are D1 at this time. There
are also a lot of non-football playing D1 schools out there to be considered.
SEC RulesKarma? Yep, that's just what happened to BYU fans! I
hope that helps!
We know that economic/profit motives are driving most of these changes.
It's still too early to say how this will ultimately impact strong non-P5
schools like BYU or the "weakest" of P5 schools such as Baylor or Utah.
With so many gears in motion, it is not unrealistic to believe that ultimately
the "top 64" (pick your number...) may not be the same ones currently in
the P5 conferences. In other words, profitable (i.e. will garner advertising
revenues) non-P5 schools (regardless of playing record) may end up displacing P5
schools that are uneconomic to operate. Free markets to tend to let the cream
@Two For Flinching"PAC-12" is an athletic designation not an
academic designation, no matter how hard you and they want to pretend
otherwise."PAC-12" has no value or use in the academic
world.PAC = pacific ATHLETIC Conference not pacific academic
talkinsportsGilbert, AZchristinaYou obviously don't
understand the golden rule here.He who has the gold, makes the
rules.As soon the elite, big money teams get through cannibalizing
the mid-majors, guess who they're going to cannibalize next.-----------Ha ha ha. Thanks for the laugh.You tell me,
why and how on earth are the big schools gonna cannibalize the other P5 schools?
Do tell.The ruling allows P5 conferences to operate with more
autonomy... NOT a few select schools from those conferences. The Pac 12, SEC and
the others are going to be making the rules... not the Alabamas, USCs, LSUs and
Oregons.You apparently think that Larry Scott and the other
conference officials are going to enter into secret agreements with Oregon, USC,
UCLA and Stanford in an effort to pump them up and deflate the rest of the
conference?Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! I've never heard such a
ridiculous claim.If you believe that, you're even more clueless
than I thought. It's in Larry Scott's (and the entire
conference's) best interests that ALL programs in their conference are
taken care of.
CanuckFanVancouver, BCWe know that economic/profit motives are
driving most of these changes. It's still too early to say how this will
ultimately impact strong non-P5 schools like BYU or the "weakest" of P5
schools such as Baylor or Utah. ----------Yep BYU is a
strong mid major program. So was Utah.Utah is in the bottom half of
the P5 programs. So would BYU.Thus, your attempt at trying to make
BYU look like Alabama or USC is a joke.
The pompous oak,must stand as I.Upon the ground,beneath the
sky.The birch and beech,the same must do.Roots in
terra,still bind them too. -T.R. MarriotI think that for
all the laud and honor the Hill pontifically demands, this announcement
ultimately does not look upon them well. I just do not see how the Alabamas, the
LSUs, the Texases, the USCs...etc. will come to bat for them when the bottom
line ($$$) is threatened by 4-8 teams. You might have a P5 membership in your
wallet, but when you are asked for ID, all you can hand them is your buy 10 get
1 free card from the nacho stand at bowl season with only 1 punch. Punch your
ticket repeatedly, then you will be P5.
So, what it looks like is there will be professional college football and
amateur college football.Personally, I don't watch professional
sports. I would love the karma of more people watching the college football
games below the P5 than those watching P5 games!
The future of college football is already set. It will take a little more time
to get there. There will not be a 'culling' of current P5
schools (wishful thinking within the sour grapes crowd), if that were to occur
who will the powerhouses play when all P5 games are within the P5? As for 'we operate in the black, therefore we deserve inclusion'
obviously none of the P5 seem to care about that. There have been a
few that have been prognosticating of this eventuality for some time
'Y' aren't you listening. Again, my heart goes out to the
college football fans that cheer for BYU.
Look, teams like USC and Auburn said, "If we play a mid major, we might
lose. Boise State, BYU, Navy, Air Force--all good teams. But if we say,
'no mid majors' then we can schedule automatic wins like Utah and
Kentucky and Wake Forest. Sounds great!"
@Kralon I used to cheer for the Utes because they were on our schedule and when
they did well, it reflected on us (if we beat them). This year, I don't
care how they do because they aren't on our schedule. In the past, I
thought BCS games were interesting because they could feature a non P5 team
against a P5 team. If this change sparks a more significant division in the
competitiveness of teams I doubt I will be interested in any P5 game even though
I live in PAC 12 country.
@ Canuck fanUtah and Baylor are not the weakest of Power 5 teams.
Baylor has done some nice things. Utah is in the bottom half but they are not
awful. The SEC and PAC 12 are the two best P5 conferences in my opinion. The BIG
10 and BIG 12 have their argument. But if Utah were in the ACC, I believe they
could compete for a conference championship relatively often. Utah will turn
around their play this year. I would like to have that result in some respect
coming from the blue, but it's unlikely. Being better, if Utah is this
year, still makes it tough to BYU fans to notice because with Utah's
schedule, reaching 6 or 7 wins is solid. That win total will be mocked because
many a BYU will pound their chest over beating 8 cupcakes and reaching 10 wins.
Again, the schedules are not comparable between the red and blue anymore.
I have never seen so much pride in an organization. How the NCAA or any
organization can allow such arrogance, haughtiness, and selfishness is beyond
me. This is a sign our culture truly is corrupt and totally messed up. "I
am not sharing my cookies any more with my brother" is the childishness this
has come to. Unfortunately, there are many worse things in the world than this
to make knots in my stomach not so tight.
PDX_CougarFan"Without mid-majors to play, many more P5 teams will end
up with .500 or lower records and not be eligible for bowl games."That
depends on if 6 wins remains a bowl requirement. ESPN has an article on P5
coaches who prefer a P5-only schedule. The poll question was asked with the
caveat that teams would not have to reach 6 wins to play in a bowl. 46% of P5
coaches prefer P5 schedules only.
@ RockwellThat's not really up to Bronco. If you pay football
and MBB players stipends, then you also pay female athletes stipends. I
obviously don't know, as an outsider, but that could be a huge issue for
the BOT and/or the WCC@ the greater truthTo be a part of
this athletic conference, certain academic standards must be met. University
presidents vote on expansion, not Ads.
Hmm..."cost of attendance"...interesting new term. Sounds like a soft
way to say "professionalism" to me at this point, at least as it
pertains to college football. Much more detail around what this new term means
is needed though. Time will tell like it always does.
There are a few things our friends in red May want to ponder. The free market
system works, it is not problem free, but it works. If Texas can generate $100
million in revenue per year for their sports program; why shouldn't USC
& UCLA do the same? Why shouldn't large market teams pursue
independence and increase their revenue by getting true market value for the
product they produce and not be forced to share revenue with small market teams?
There is a possibility of conference implosion...
It's sad, all 3 are great schools, and while Utah is part of the power 5
sorority they will continue to be the ugly sister allowed to play along but they
will never be named prom queen. It's not that Utah is not a great school;
Coach Whittingham is a coach’s coach. The problem is competing for
talent--if you are a blue chip recruit and you need to choose between USC and
Utah you aren't likely to choose the inversion over the sunshine. Utah
doesn’t compete in the PAC 12, it plays in the PAC12. Yes, thanks to an
amazing motivator and leader Utah pulls off some miracles and wins games but the
great talent will go to schools that don't have cold winters. And Ute fans
are loyal enough and smart enough to hang on to Coach Whittingham because the
minute they fire him there will be a line of schools who can attract talent who
will snap him up. Utah State and BYU will get to play for the consolation
bowls, but unless global warming eliminates the January inversions players who
have a real choice will go to a Sunbelt school.
Truth...you are probably right. In fact, I see no way the u can complete year
in and year out in their conference. 63 percent of the top 300 kids have
committed to their schools. USC, UCLA and Oregon have 15 commits. Every school
in the Pac 12 have top 300 talent committed except Utah, Cal and Oregon St. If
you're going to compete, you need to have the players, and Utah isn't
going to get 'em.
UteologyTiny fish swimming in a shark tank also comes to mind.The Utes are only fooling themselves if they think they have a chance of
competing in a strictly P5 on P5 environment.First, there would be
no Big Sky team to ease into the football season with an tuneup game and an
automatic win. Second, No P5 would even think of scheduling a
one-and-done or a two-for-one at RES, so the Utes would always have at least 6
road games against P5 teams, where the Utes have already proven that they
struggle to compete. Third, without any automatic wins, the Utes
would be forced to sweep their home schedule every year just to break even,
which would mean sweeping USC, Oregon, Arizona, and two P5s from other
conferences this year.Bottom line:Utah would be
relegated to perpetual conference bottom dweller, perpetual losing seasons and
No this is not all about the student athlete. It is nothing more or less than
all about the money.
2fer"That's not really up to Bronco. If you pay football
and MBB players stipends, then you also pay female athletes stipends. I
obviously don't know, as an outsider, but that could be a huge issue for
the BOT and/or the WCC"You're forgetting, there are schools
in the PAC 12 that would have the exact same problem.UCLA, USC and
Stanford, for example, have outstanding men's volleyball programs, but they
compete in the Mountain-Pacific Sports Federation against:Brigham
Young, Cal Baptist, Cal State Northridge, Hawai'i, Long Beach State,
Pepperdine, UC Irvine, UC San Diego, and UC Santa BarbaraAs you can
clearly see, the majority of the teams in the best men's volleyball
conference in the country aren't from P5 conferences, in fact, many of them
don't even have a football program.
@ truth_avengerSchools with cold winters can't compete?
That's bad news for UW, and Oregon, and pretty much the entire Big 10....
It will be interesting to see where extra money will come from to pay for extra
support of the student athlete. I would sure hope all money for this will come
from boosters and others donating to athletic departments. I would hate to see
an increase in student tuition to cover costs. That just wouldn't be
right. As a citizen, I would also have a hard time being taxed more so that
money could trickle down into paying athletes. As for the case of BYU, I
don't think it would be right for tithing money to be used to pay athletes.
If all this extra money comes from the athletic department alone then I think
something could work. Otherwise, it has to be subsidized by something and I
don't like it.
A Sun Belt school? That is a huge stretch.
Yet another step in the continual slide to implosion. NCAA football generates
$Millions upon $Millions of revenue and it's never enough. Only 25 of the
65 so-called power schools actually operate within their budgets. Most of the
coaches of these power schools get paid more than the university president. In
some cases, they get 10 times the president's salary.For those
who say, in effect, "Well, the football program brings in more money and
prestige than the president.." While there may be truth in that observation,
it really means the universities are losing they way in the scheme of things. In
reality, just about all the extraordinary amounts of money get funneled back
into the athletic programs. The cash really isn't helping the educational
process for which the school was established.
This signals the beginning of the end for college football, the majority of fans
across the country won't care, television contracts will shrink with no one
watching and unfortunately there is no going back.The university of Utah
should be worried since half the country just got eliminated from contention.
If they make cuts, then they will make more and who is next to leave? The ACC
and all bottom feeders in each conference will be shown the door. The ultimate
result will be 32teams left standing. So long college football.
@ WhatsnuI have no idea how this is going to play out, but if it
becomes a problem don't be surprised if UCLA, USC, and Stanford drop
men's volleyball. Football is king.
gdog3finallyWest Jordan, UtahThere are schools outside the power 5
in other conferences or independent teams like BYU that are more worthy of
inclusion than the bottom half of the schools in the power 5 that feed off of
and benefit from the conferences best and historic teams at the top. So,
although there are intriguing and competitive positives that some sports fans
can see with these changes of Power 5 economic and competitive dominance (of
which I like as well), there is also an unbalanced prejudice of power. But such
is capitalism historically.________Can't BYU fans
like yourself find something else to complain about? That is getting old. Same
complaint over and over again. If BYU was worthy, they would already be in a P5
conference. They are not, get over it. BYU is feeding off ESPN to get any
recognition they can. Because it sure is not happening with their scheduling as
CougarSunDevilPhoenix, AZWhittingham says that he's in favor of
it now. A year or two more of losing seasons and he'll be complaining about
the system when he's coaching at Wyoming.________I
think Wyoming is in good hands with their new coach. Would not make fun of them.
Interesting how they can schedule Nebraska, and bring Texas to play in Laramie.
Don't hear them crying about scheduling opponents like BYU does.
backpacnSandy, UTUteologyTiny fish swimming in a shark
tank also comes to mind.The Utes are only fooling themselves if they
think they have a chance of competing in a strictly P5 on P5 environment.First, there would be no Big Sky team to ease into the football season
with an tuneup game and an automatic win. Second, No P5 would even
think of scheduling a one-and-done or a two-for-one at RES, so the Utes would
always have at least 6 road games against P5 teams, where the Utes have already
proven that they struggle to compete. Third, without any automatic
wins, the Utes would be forced to sweep their home schedule every year just to
break even, which would mean sweeping USC, Oregon, Arizona, and two P5s from
other conferences this year.Bottom line:Utah would be
relegated to perpetual conference bottom dweller, perpetual losing seasons and
no bowls.________Meanwhile BYU carrys on the tradition
of losing to ranked teams on ESPN. And replayed on BYUtv.Bottom
line:BYU is relegated as an outcast by P5 conferences. Nobody wants
them as a member. BYU is a perpetual signee of prearranged bowl games.
Anti-trust is the twin sister of this transaction... The truth is
that the P5 folks think that this will enhance their recruiting (most of these
institutions and programs couldn't care less about academic achievement)...
This definitely will help some of the wealthy programs (i.e. ND, SC, Texas) but
the weaker P5 programs will suffer just like the mid majors... Pressure will be
brought to bare on the lower echelon of P5 teams (i.e. the utes) and the schools
will turn to their Benefactors (the taxpayers) to dig even deeper into their
pockets so that they can buy competitive recruits... I do not
understand why the NCAA and selected Government bodies allow this disparate
activity to take place... They need to stop trying to fix what's not broken
and quit looking for more unfair advantages... In a free market, players
(meaning universities in this case) need to be able to compete on an even
playing field... What's next? A draft for College Recruits? The
best will go to the highest bidders.
If you are a true fan of the amateur sports model that has been a part of
college athletics for over 100 years, then this is a sad day.If you
feel that college athletes should be compensated by whoever can pay the most
money (i.e. Texas), then I guess you are happy today. I am sad. I
have loved college sports my whole life, but it is something I love less and
less as I get older. And that is what makes me sad. I don't
care what the argument is, Athletes get scholarships that pay for tuition,
books, food, tutors, while every other student has to pay for it out of their
own pockets. Maybe the NFL should change its draft rules to emulate
the NBA and just let high school kids go right to the pros if they want. A
handful might cut it, while the rest will realize they need college to mature to
the level that they can compete in the pros. And maybe then they would be
grateful for the scholarships they get instead of whining that they are unfairly
treated. If that happened then stupid rulings like this wouldn't pass.
Lots of sour grapes here. Well eat those grapes up and wash them down with a
refreshing glass of its good to be in the Conference of Champions and.not on
the outside looking in. Ps-there isn't really a beverage called that.
Wait, didn't the power 5 create the BCS? Follow the money. There
you'll find where the power lies and who wields it, and where it will be in
the future. Way to roll over and play dead NCAA. Nice tactic. Wonder who
fattened your wallets behind the scenes!?
All of the ranking systems have multiple "mid-major" schools ranked
higher than many of the P5 schools. Even in the state of Utah there are two
"Mid-Majors" ranked higher than the lone P5 school.
It's more than ironic to see Y fans scolding Utah fans for having exactly
what Y fans covet--P5 membership.Given all the coug chest beating
about "legacy program", "individual awards", "national
brand", "ESPN clout", "exposure" and a great HD truck,
it's kind of pathetic to see their noses pressed against the glass, on the
outside looking in!
We are big boys now so we don't need to worry anymore and we will build a
wining tradition.Go Utes!
For all those who think this helps Utah and they can pay for this out of all
that money they are making from the Pac 12 TV Money - Oklahoma has taken the
first step (with the ruling that schools can provide unlimited food to athletes)
to set up a fund of $1M/year to feed athletes. Colorado has followed suit.
$1M/year on food! How far do you think that Pac 12 TV Revenue is going to go for
a school already operating in the red? P5 Football is killing college athletics.
The other 55 , "non power 5" Division I football schools need to start
thinking about starting our own football playoff system perhaps similar to the
NIT. It may be a premature idea, and hopefully won't be needed if the
current playoff plan expands to 8 teams and guarantees at least 2 spots to the
best of the other 55 Div. I schools. If the "Power 5" schools can
pretty much shut out the other schools out of the fun, we need to have our own
fun and personally I"m not too interested in watching Alabama play for a
championship every year. Just think if they could do the same
thing to basketball. There would be no Bradley's, no Wichita St or San
Diego St. etc, just Kansas, Duke, UNC, AZ and UCLA every year. Personally, its
a lot more interesting and fair and fun if they let everyone have a shot and
I'm sure they get a lot more viewers. I think the "power 5"
veiwership will suffer if they essenially shut out close to half of Div. I
teams, at least I'll tune out.
JohnInSLC"it's kind of pathetic to see their noses pressed
against the glass, on the outside looking in!"As opposed to
seeing the Utes with their noses pressed against the glass ceiling, on the
bottom looking up?While you're pre-maturely yucking it up about
the "demise" of BYU football, the big boys have just upped the ante and
U have nothing with which to respond except to continue being a convenient
punching for the big boys of college football.9-18 (33%) versus PAC
12 teams will soon become 4-8 yearly versus an all P5 schedule.
I am amazed that Hatch actually made somewhat of a coherent comment. I'm
at the point of not caring a bit about the NCAA and what they do. Starting with
the conference realignment fiasco, the NCAA has only proven that they care
nothing about students. They are driven by greed. When they get rid of the
Cinderella stories in football, people will stop caring. How many years are
people going to care if Alabama wins the title, or if FSU, OSU, ND, USC, or
maybe some other SEC team will win. It will get stale and boring.The utes need to realize that they will be left behind. If the church decides
that giving athletes tithing dollars isn't in the best interest of the
church, then our legislature will be forced to do the same or we'll get
them out. No more dollars for a power 5 team that is running millions of
dollars in the red every year. Give that money to "real students" and
stop subsidizing athletics in these universities. No one goes and watches mens
soccer or girls softball. Should be club sports.
As much as it hurts to say it, Utah is in a much better position than is BYU,and
any of my fellow Cougar fans who can't admit that have issues. I would
trade places with the Utes in a heartbeat. Regardless of why or how they got
invited to the party over BYU does not matter anymore - they are a member of the
big boys group and BYU is not. As for the proposal that all games
must be played against other Power 5 teams, I don't know if that will fly
or not. Many of the teams in the big conferences often play 7 and sometimes 8
home games in a season. I doubt very seriously that teams like Florida would be
willing to give up those extra home games. And what about the lesser teams in
those 5 conferences, would they be willing to play only 4 or 5 home games in a
season? I don't know.Hopefully BYU is not eventually left out
in the cold by all these changes, but I would not be one bit surprised if
that's what happens.
Solomon:What was missing from your rejoinder is that you'd
rather see BYU stay independent than be invited to a P5 conference. If you
can't say that with a straight face, then all your stone-throwing is pretty
Wow! So much angst, overreaction, cynicism, and attacking the NCAA and others.
C'mon, Cougars, let's show some class.This is not the end
of college football, much less the end of the world. Let's stop the
hyperbole and hand-wringing. BYU has a solid (mid major) football program. That
won't change. Nobody in the NCAA is out to stick it to BYU out of spite or
hatred. Give up the persecution complex, people!These changes are
improvements for student athletes and for the integrity of college football
overall. Student athletes work hard, and now they get a little extra help. We
all wanted a legitimate National Champion. This will help.Steady as
she goes. Let's get into a Conference, improve our schedule, and play ball!
Sorry Utes, but you'll never keep up with the likes of USC, UCLA, Stanford,
Washington, Oregon, et al when it comes to $$$$. You'll always be at the
bottom looking up.
@ Y-ask-YIf BYU is a mid-major (a pejorative term first coined for
basketball) then over 2/3 of the so called P-5 teams are also mid-majors.BCS, P-5's, mid-majors, non-equity leagues etc., are just crafty
marketing techniques used to create a "Caste System", out of whole
cloth, without merit. Suspend playing into their spin and nix the
whole "persecution complex" cliché, when someone disagrees with
I am a BYU fan, but I don't think the argument is correct that Utah will be
left in the dust due to autonomy and exclusive P5 scheduling. This
will kill BYU football and help Utah. Maybe your average fan sitting in Utah
County will be happy to watch BYU play in D2 (or non P5 D1). However, money will
dry up from boosters, sponsors, and ESPN who just won't see the pay off in
subsidizing a D2 team at a D1 level of $$$.Do you really think that
the top athletes will come to BYU if 1)they won't get the same bennies such
as adequate insurance and cost of attendance/pay, or 2) can't play for an
actual championship?Athletes will go to Utah, the sponsors will
switch to Utah, and over time, there will only be one real team in the State.
To put it frankly, BYU football is dead if they aren't either
included in a P5 conference or get P5 independent status. THE END. In 30 years
you will have to tell your kids and grandkids something like "did you know
that BYU used to have a D1 football program?"
The most interesting quote in the article was from Orrin Hatch. How many
senators are from states with the 20 "Have" schools that are driving
this, versus the many more "Have-not" schools who struggle to keep up?
Attacking the accelerating disparity in college sports is a much easier case to
make than defending it. I wager there'll be huge unintended econimic--and
legal--consequences in college sports if this system is launched. And in the
end, public schools in smaller markets will not be the winners, regardless of
current conference affiliation.
BlutoI'm so sorry you are feeling picked on.But you
are not.Get over it.
MacNasty - You used the word Pedigree. Let's just say, for the sake of
argument, that the Pac 12, when expanding a few years ago, was strictly looking
at football pedigree and not research education or anything else. That
wasn't the case but for the sake of this argument let's say it was. I
need you to just look at this with your mind and not your heart for a moment and
I promise to do the same...BYU's Pedigree that Utah
doesn't have: Undefeated National championship season 30 years ago, a
Heisman trophy winner 25 years ago, higher quantity of conference championships,
more time in the top 25 during the BCS era. Utah's Pedigree
that BYU doesn't have: 2 undefeated seasons in the BCS era. 2 BCS bowl
wins, a Heisman finalist in the BCS era, a #1 draft pick in the BCS era, higher
quantity of NFL players in the BCS era. More bowl game wins in the BCS era. MacNasty my argument isn't that BYU wasn't as deserving as the
Utes to get invited. They were. My argument is your comment that Utah's
pedigree was not a part of the equation. It was.
"Power Five" = Baloney, it's NFL minor league.
Gdog, Your impress me with your intelligent comments. I lean your way in how
this step will turn out in the end. And I am aware that the two most corrupting
influences are money and power. Both are the goals of this move. I am
sympathetic to the schools who are in these 5 conferences because of their
geographical location or the need to fill all 12 slots so a conference playoff
can be held (also driven for more money).
This is from Stewart Mandel"The financial disparity between
those five and everybody else is now so wide that starting next year former
Mountain West member Utah will make more annually from the Pac-12’s
revenue distribution (at least $20 million) than the entire Mountain West
averages in annual TV revenue ($18 million)."Utah is in a great
Cali blue "Why shouldn't large market teams pursue independence and
increase their revenue....?"Yeah, like that's ever going to
happen. What, follow the BYU model and have their Homecomings with Savannah
Here we see the advent of greed and unfair play from the super 5. It goes to
show the money can buy anything. They are wanting to pay their student athletes
more. Which student athletes? Only football and basketball? So it's not
enough to pay for their education, room, food. Now a car and what else? a
House? These " Pro-Athlete-Students" are already given soo much during
their playing years and when they walk away with a degree so much after.
Cali blue "All of the ranking systems have multiple "mid-major"
schools ranked higher than many of the P5 schools. Even in the state of Utah
there are two "Mid-Majors" ranked higher than the lone P5
school."So what? That's a problem with the rating system.
Drop any of those schools, including Boise St. and BYU into a major conference
and have them play nine conference games week in and week out and guess where
they'll end up? They don't have the overall talent and as Utah and
TCU has learned, don't have the required depth. BYU fans like to make fun
of and ridicule the lower P5 schools but everyone cannot be a winner. Getting
up for one or two big games a year is nothing like playing a nine conference
game grueling schedule. When you're on the outside looking in I guess
it's too difficult to understand this.
If wishes were fishes.....Lots of Blue naysayers commenting recently
that Coach Whitt is done, Utah will fail, on and on.Don't know
where all these prognostications are coming from, other than Blue Wishful
Thinking.Clearly the P5 are making a move, and those who are not P5
are going to have to figure out how to deal with it.Reality Check:
The PAC12 gap has been there for some time. Now it's just more visible,
more palpable, and whether folks like it or not some teams are on the P5 train
and some are not.Another Reality Check: The media's reports RE
the recent influx of new players, depth, & speed on The Hill is not
reflective of competition with other teams in Utah --- it's reflective of
Utah's competition within P5/PAC12.And just wait until January
when the P5 Big Boys meet again to make their own rules, to include "whether
or not a P5 conference has to have a championship game" which some believe
might have motivated the B12 to add additional teams..... Not.Good
luck out there. 'Pears like the train has left the station.That's just the way it is.
Utah gains 20 million a year being in the PAC rather than the MWC, and the
proposed changes would only cost at most 2 million a year for Utah's 500 or
so athletes (10k each which is much more than the proposed stipends and health
insurance would be so the 2 million is most likely higher than expected).
Utah'll be just fine.
What's the big deal, a school can sign roughly 25 football players and 5
basketball players. I don't see this putting the other 6 or 7 colleges in
Utah out of business
As a UU alum and previously an avid Ute fan, upon seeing that the Univ. of Utah
pays assistants coaches for an extra curricular activity (football) over $500k
per year, that did it for me. D-I basketball is likewise perverted.
Increasingly the significance of major college athletics to an even greater
degree is the epitome of misplaced priorities and decadence.If you
live in the Salt Lake Valley and can afford it, and they offer your curriculum,
Westminster is the way to go.BYU (Provo) shoud emulate their Idaho
and Hawai'i campuses with regard to athletics Chasing a corrupt Big5
system is an exercise in futility.
Better wake up sports fans, the way the world is going, sports will be the least
of our worries...it really already is. Sports may cease to exist if the world
doesn't get its act together soon...the toilet bowl is where we all will be
@backpacnBottom Line:A) RevenuesUtah Football
(last reporting year 7/1/2012 - 6/30/2013): $27,640,267 BYU Football (last
reporting year 1/1/2012 - 12/31/2012): $18,639,413B) versus P5
TeamsUtah 11-18 (37%)BYU 5-11 (31%)
Just to be clear, Chris B speaks for himself and not the University of Utah.
Anything that further seperates the have from the have nots is bad for college
Cali blueCoalinga, CAAll of the ranking systems have multiple
"mid-major" schools ranked higher than many of the P5 schools. Even in
the state of Utah there are two "Mid-Majors" ranked higher than the lone
P5 school.-----------What? As of today, the
USA Today Coaches Poll Top 25 has:* TWENTY-FIVE P5 Teams ranked* ZERO mid-majorsEven UCF which was a top 10 team last year is not
ranked in the preseason poll this season, that's one example of the
difference in talent level between P5 and mid-majors.That is why
even in the State the mid-majors (Utah State/BYU) can't compete with the P5
I did not read all of the comments so this may have been said already but you
will start seeing more players drafted from FCS schools more now than before.
This will ruin college football because the price for tickets will definitely go
up just like pro football. Won't be affordable to the average college fan
who still have $30000 of school debt to pay back.
Can someone remind me - when "mid majors" were invited to BCS bowls,
what percentage of them did they win?In basketball, how many years
did a "mid major" make it to the sweet sixteen or even the final
four?Seems to me, they are really not "mid" at all.
drute"Lots of Blue naysayers commenting recently that Coach
Whitt is done, Utah will fail, on and on.Don't know where all
these prognostications are coming from,..."4-5, 3-6, 2-7,
back-to-back bowl less, losing seasons.----------------UteologyDon't kid yourself; BYU and Utah State have both been
very competitive with Utah head-to-head, and both have done BETTER overall than
Utah the last 3 years.Bowl GamesBYU 3USU 3Utah 1
Uteology"As of today, the USA Today Coaches Poll Top 25 has:* TWENTY-FIVE P5 Teams ranked* ZERO mid-majors"It's hilarious how U have to piggy back off of the accomplishments of
other P5s, because you have absolutely no accomplishments of your own since
joining the PAC.As of today, the USA Today Coaches Poll Top 25
has:* BYU receiving the 38th most votes* Utah receiving
absolutely ZERO votesIt's interesting how you completely
ignored those little details while you were busy spouting off.
UteologyIt's interesting, that with all of your spouting off,
you failed to disprove Cali blue's statement, that "Even in the state
of Utah there are two "Mid-Majors" ranked higher than the lone P5
school."Here' just one example from RealTimeRPINCAA Men's Football - Team Power Rankings (2014-2015)Last updated -
Thu Jul 31 22:30:49 PDT 2014#39 BYU#42 USU#48 Utah
This is nothing more than a money and power grab.
Utes have made a living, from decades of BYU TV revenue, and now ride the coat
tails of conference teams which are much stronger then they are.Yikes! This is nothing to find pride in.
"#39 BYU #48 Utah"Anymous:Too bad those rankings
haven't put enough points on the scoreboard for you.
"Utes have made a living, from decades of BYU TV revenue. . . . This is
nothing to find pride in."worf:It was all paid back
with BYU's share of Utah's BCS bowl game revenue. I noticed your cougs
weren't too proud to refuse it.
catanimussToo bad scoreboard didn't help you qualify for a
Here's sobering information for Ute fans who believe money from the PAC-12
media deal means paying athletes won't be a financial problem. ASU
athletics runs a $6M annual deficit-after $20M in TV revenue and $9M student
fees, not to mention ticket sales and merchandise. $20M sounds like a lot of
money, but there are expectations that your university will spend that money
trying to keep up with USC/Stanford/UCLA/Oregon. It's a losing battle,
because they have bigger donors and bigger athletic endowment, so you will never
keep up. Look at Oklahoma-they announced they will now add $1M/year to the
athletics budget just for more/better food. And once USC/UCLA prove the cost of
living in LA is higher than Salt Lake or Tempe, then they will offer better
"cost of living" payments than Utah or ASU can make, so they will
continue to get better recruits. Any belief that they will support you because
"that's best for the conference" is delusional.At the
same time that sports are a drain on university funds, an in-state resident now
pays $25k/year at ASU. Priorities in college athletics are a mess.
to JohnInSLC on pg 4...Agreed. Its a riot to see Cougar nation spin
how being on the outside looking in is better than where they project the Utes
to UteanymousPreseason polls? Really? Sorry? I forgot
byu is to Aug & Sept what an SEC team typically is come Mid Jan?
@Uteanymous: "It's hilarious how U have to piggy back off of the
accomplishments of other P5s, because you have absolutely no accomplishments of
your own since joining the PAC."-------------We have
one Sun Bowl win going 6-5 vs P5 teams in 2011 (4-5 in the PAC 12). Nothing
great, but it is still MUCH better than:* BYU was 2-5 vs P5 last
year* BYU is 5-11 31% vs P5 teams since going Indy FYI for
comparison Utah has a 37% winning percent vs same teams.When you
guys worry less about what irrelevant polls like RealTimeRPI say and more about
what the scoreboard says you might actually beat Utah this decade. Good luck!
@UteanymousSalt Lake City, UtahcatanimussToo bad
scoreboard didn't help you qualify for a bowl.-------------BYU vs P5: 2-5BYU vs others: 6-0 Too bad you
didn't play a real schedule, if you did you would stop talking about OUR
bowl game. Just like:"In the early years, I think BYU felt that
they had outgrown the conference and their people were talking about how BYU
would go to the Big 12 or the Pac-10. They used to come into the Utah game
always talking about who they would be playing in their bowl game.... When we started beating them, they stopped talking about their bowl game."
-- Ron McBride
@UteologyYou're making things up.
Anymous:Yep, that conference schedule is tough. But as my old pappy
used to say: Better to aim for the stars and miss than to aim for a cow pie and
@uteology...What's your source on the revenue reporting that
you offered in an earlier post???... You showed Utah earning more than BYU...
Which I believe is highly doubtful for two reasons: 1) BYU has no reporting
obligation since it is a non-profit religious institution and up till now they
have protected that tax positioning and have not reported revs to anyone or any
entity; and 2) BYU kills Utah in attendance and TV revenues... Their gate is a
good 100,000 more rear-ends in seat per year, and they have far more national
television exposure with higher ratings...So again, tell us your
source so we can verify it... Or, is it like other uteology facts and figures
reported... "far more fiction than truth".
@BlutoSandy, UT@UteologyYou're making things up.--------------How? I never claimed BYU was a legacy program,
with a world-wide brand.@poymanThe source is U.S.
Department of Education. Search for "Equity in Athletics Data -
U.S. Department of Education", then click the link "Get data for one
institution", from there the query should be straight forward. Look under
"Revenues and Expenses" for each school. The numbers I put
were the last reported by each institution.BYU football: $18 - $14 =
about $4 million profitUtah football: $27 - $14 = about $13 million
profitAnd that's with Utah only having a partial share from the
PAC-12. That partially explains why Bronco wants a Big 12 invite so bad.
RE: Uteology"FYI for comparison Utah has a 37% winning percent
vs same teams."I don't understand why anti-BYU trolls have
recently started using this 31-37% statistic. They obviously weren't
against the same teams. Since 2011 BYU and Utah only have 6 common opponents
and only 4 common P5 opponents. Against all common opponents BYU is 8-2 and
Utah is 6-6. Against all common P5 opponents BYU is 4-2 and Utah is 4-5.
Wiscougarfan:Since records against common opponents are important to
you, how about the record against the most common of opponents , each other?Yep, 4-0 Utes sounds right.
JohnInSLC,If head to head record says everything, then Utah is worst
than Army and Air Force and San Diego State and YMCA, among many others. I know
you guys like to believe you were better than Stanford last year, but
nobody's buying it just so you know.Records against each other,
records against common opponents, overall records (with strength of schedule
considered) are some indicators used to determine the best team. Neither in
itself is a trump indicator that proves one team is better than the other.Last year the rankings determined that Utah and BYU were neck and neck
(with Utah actually ahead of BYU in one of those rankings by a single point),
which is the first time in about 5 years where rankings actually considered Utah
to be at the same level as BYU.
WiscougarfanRiver Falls, WIRE: Uteology"FYI
for comparison Utah has a 37% winning percent vs same teams."I
don't understand why anti-BYU trolls have recently started using this
31-37% statistic. They obviously weren't against the same teams. Since 2011
BYU and Utah only have 6 common opponents and only 4 common P5 opponents.
Against all common opponents BYU is 8-2 and Utah is 6-6. Against all common P5
opponents BYU is 4-2 and Utah is 4-5.------------We've had 6 common opponents?Are you counting common
opponents over multiple years? If so, that makes no sense. There's
nothing "common" about a given team from one year to another.For example, losing to a ranked team in Logan with Keeton is not the same as
beating a un-ranked team without Keeton in Logan a year later. There were only 8 common teams over three years:2011: Utah/BYU,
Oregon State Utah 2-0BYU 1-12012: Utah/BYU, Utah State,
Oregon State, Washington StateUtah 2-2BYU 2-22013:
Utah/BYU, Utah StateUtah 2-0BYU 1-1Utah 6-2 (75%)BYU 4-4 (50%)Anything else?
Riverton CougarRiverton, UTJohnInSLC,If head to
head record says everything, then Utah is worst than Army and Air Force and San
Diego State and YMCA, among many others. I know you guys like to believe you
were better than Stanford last year, but nobody's buying it just so you
know.-------------No, we have clearly said that we are
better than BYU not Stanford. BYU was 2-5 vs P5 teams last year,
Stanford was 9-3. Stanford beat 4 ranked teams last year, BYU
hasn't beat 4 ranked teams over 18 years combined. See the
difference between BYU and Stanford?
WiscougarfanRiver Falls, WIRE: Uteology"FYI
for comparison Utah has a 37% winning percent vs same teams."I
don't understand why anti-BYU trolls have recently started using this
31-37% statistic. They obviously weren't against the same teams. Since 2011
BYU ... Against all common opponents BYU is 8-2 and Utah is 6-6. Against all
common P5 opponents BYU is 4-2 and Utah is 4-5.--------------What?I have no idea how you are defining "common
opponents". Here's the "same teams" that we played each
year.Common Opponents Including Head-to-Head:2011:
Utah/BYU, Oregon State (Utah 2-0, BYU 1-1)2012: Utah/BYU, Oregon State,
Washington State, Utah State (Utah/BYU 2-2)2013: Utah/BYU, Utah State
(Utah 2-0, BYU 1-1)Utah 6-2 (75%)BYU 4-4 (40%)If
you ignore the head-to-head then and only then Utah 3-2 and BYU 4-1. The
difference, we played Utah State at Logan and lost in OT and you beat them at
home by 3. Congrats!
Uteology:"The difference, we played Utah State at Logan and lost in OT
and you beat them at home by 3."I just love the cherry picking
ute fans do. Yes the year before last U lost in OT and we beat USU by 3. You
conveniently don't address last year where you had to con USU with an
onside kick at home to win a game you shouldn't have, while BYU dismantled
USU in Logan from the opening whistle. And please spare us the "Chuckie got
hurt". BYU was owning them with him in the game...it was Keeton that threw
the pick six against Van Noy, it was Keeton's offense that couldn't
move the ball on BYU while they racked up yardage against your "P5"
utes. And when you take head to head out, yes BYU has a better record since
going Indy (and head to head isn't counted in assessing common opponents by
any Vegas bookie or any sports statistician...that's why it's called
head to head instead of being lumped with common opponents).
"No, we have clearly said that we are better than BYU not Stanford."Ute fans clearly state that Utah is better than BYU because of
head-to-head. Since Utah beat Stanford last year, by that logic Utah was better
than Stanford.There's no need for a straw man in comparing BYU
to Stanford; I never once suggested BYU was better than Stanford. I'm just
pointing out the flaws in Ute fan logic that "Team A beat Team B therefore
Team A is better".
@CougsndawgsI clearly said "congrats" on beating Utah State,
what do you want airport celebrations?* BYU is 31% vs P5 teams. * Utah is 37% vs P5 teams.No need to look at common opponents or
ignore head-to-head, the original statement stands on it's own considering
on average Utah has played tougher schedules, in a real league.
RE: Uteology Didn't realize that point out facts would make you
so uncomfortable. Since you insist on coming back to the "BYU is 31% vs P5
teams, Utah is 37% vs P5 teams" statistic let's at least give those
numbers some context. Winning % of the P5 teams BYU has beat since
2011: .395 (30-46)@ Ole Miss, @ Oregon State), WSU, @ Georgia Tech, #15
Texas, Georgia Tech Winning % of the P5 teams Utah has beat since
2011: .384 (53-85)Pitt, Oregon St, AZ, UCLA, WSU, Georgia Tech, Cal, WSU,
@ Colorado), #5 Stanford, Colorado So congratulations to Utah,
you’ve played more really bad P5 teams than BYU has. Any use of the
31-37% statistic simply reinforces that fact. Also, I couldn’t help but
notice that Utah only has one road win against a P5 team, their 2012 victory
over a 1-11 Colorado team. Both BYU and Utah have a lot to work to improve road
I am amazed at the jealousy of some who post. Every school in Utah gets to
choose its own path. BYU chose independence, Utah the PAC12, USU the WAC and now
the MWC. Those three roads all lead in different directions. Be supportive of
your school's choices, cheer for them. The only constant is change.
"So congratulations to Utah, you’ve played more really bad P5 teams
than BYU has."What u fail to acknowledge is the enormous
difference in playing against p5 schools in a back to back weekly grind, such as
our annual 9 game conference schedule, as opposed to playing against p5 schools
at random, w/integrated scheduling breaks. This is precisely the reason that
byu's sos finished ranked a full 35 spots below ours last season and why
it'll finish nearly 100 spots below ours this season. Furthermore, even
w/all of these scheduling breaks, byu still loses to the vast majority of p5
schools they schedule. They had all off season to prepare for uva and lost;
Bye weeks preceding The U/Wisc and lost both; Idaho St prior to ND and lost;
Weeks to prepare for a UW team minus all of its primary coaches and got
destroyed.byu has played against 7 Pac-12 schools at random,
spanning years, and has beaten merely 2 bottom feeders, gotten destroyed twice
at home and once on a neutral field and is 0-3 against The U.
worfMcallen, TXUtes have made a living, from decades of BYU TV
revenue, and now ride the coat tails of conference teams which are much stronger
then they are.Yikes! This is nothing to find pride in._______No, pride is BYU and fans like your self riding the pride
train to independence thinking you are better than everyone else. BYU made a
living off its WAC legacy. And now you are riding the coattails of New Mexico
St. Idaho St, Idaho..... just to fill up your schedule.
Ummmm WAC Padding.... I guess you haven't checked your own schedule lately