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Comments about ‘Defending the Faith: Salvation comes through Jesus Christ, without exception’

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Published: Thursday, Aug. 7 2014 6:35 a.m. MDT

Updated: Thursday, Aug. 7 2014 6:35 a.m. MDT

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george of the jungle
goshen, UT

As far as Guardian Angles , I think i have 2. One that is a little devil and the other that's a saint. The devil made me do it is the best excuse I can give when there ain't any other explanations.

Apocalypse please
Bluffdale, UT

Don't forget that Joseph Smith plays a role too.

"No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith...every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are"

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 7, p. 289

Moontan
Roanoke, VA

Christ died willingly for those He believed in, which is everyone, and not just for those who believed in Him. Witnesses left us written accounts sufficient to withstand scrutiny. Odin & Co. have a looong way to go to get there. Man-made gods have human characteristics. Greatly exaggerated, but human nonetheless. They fade from history for that very reason. Jesus of Nazareth transcends the limits of the human imagination. What human could write Matthew 5 and expect to be taken seriously? Only a Being far beyond our frail abilities could author it.

ExTBird
Springville, US-UT

@Moontan

Oh wow...

We are going to have to agree to disagree on pretty much all of that friend. :)

Craig Clark
Boulder, CO

"....We believe that absolutely nobody — whether Jew or Gentile; whether Mormon, Catholic, Hindu or Buddhist — can earn heaven on personal merit, independent of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. Nobody is “worthy enough to receive God’s eternal blessings on their own.”...."
______________________________

The 2,000 year old debate continues between personal effort and the essential saving grace of a deity which I don’t believe Jesus himself ever claimed to be. Could he have even imagined that he would posthumously become the focal point of a belief in divine agency?

What good is salvation if it brings no deliverance from ignorance?

Tyler D
Meridian, ID

@Moontan = “Christ died willingly for those He believed in, which is everyone… “

Even the billions (Buddhists, Hindus, Animists, Pagans, Taoists, etc…) who have no idea who he is, many of whom have religious traditions just as beautiful and often far more sophisticated (Buddhists, Toaists) than anything found in the Judeo-Christian tradition, including the admittedly beautiful Sermon on the Mount?

Arguing for the excellence of your religion is fine. But when you argue for the exclusivity, universality or superiority of it, you do little more than embarrass yourself by showing profound ignorance.

Article quote – “I am the way, the truth, and the life,” announces Jesus in John 14:6. “No man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

BTW, has it ever occurred to any Christian that this passage – arguably made up out of whole cloth by the author of John (since it appears in no other gospel) – may be greatly misunderstood by what became the Orthodox Church?

Other early Christian groups (e.g., Gnostics, Marcions) took this to mean our consciousness must become “Christ-like” and not that we must affirm a belief statement.

Moontan
Roanoke, VA

@ExTBird ... Yes, I figgered. :) But it's all good.

I would clarify, however ... Many people could write Matthew 5, I'll concede. But to expect to be taken seriously with 'love your enemies' is a stretch. More like laughed out of town. For me, the Resurrection validates His teachings. Witnessed, attested to, documented, sworn to by His apostles unto the point of torture and death ... this then sends me back to the Gospels to see what He taught. THEN the profundity of Matthew 5 shines through, and the hand of man is not to be found.

Of course, if it turns out I'm wrong, I'll buy the next round.

Moontan
Roanoke, VA

@TylerD ... I may suffer from 'profound ignorance' as you allege, but I'm awfully cute. :)

You've not seen me claim exclusivity based on mere intellectual ascent to the truths of Christianity. I'll never claim special access to Him over the Buddhist, Taoist, etc., and may even admit to inferiority to many of them. I believe living a Christlike life was/is His message. This then gives all people access to Him.

happy2bhere
clearfield, UT

Tyler D

In regards to your statement about John 14:6 you just re-affirm why we need modern day revelation and a restoration of all the truths of the church Jesus began. Yes people can read a scripure and not like it, disagree about it, and or misinterpret it for their own uses, ect. That is largely why we have so many different Christian churches in the world. Each seeming to emphasize certain doctrines, while neglecting others. That is why it was necessary to have a restoration, not a reformation, of the Church of Jesus Christ. And why it is essential to have prophets living in the modern world, not just in the ancient one. Makes and made perfect sense to me, after years of searching.

RedWings
CLEARFIELD, UT

Ranch -

If there were proof there would be no need for faith. I would bet that, even if Christ appeared today, most atheists would find an excuse to not believe.

You stated your opinion of what is in the Bible. Mine is that it is the Word of God to His prophets and that through prayerful study of it we can become more like Him. That is working for me so far.

I also read the Quran, Dhammapada, and the Bhagavad Gita. I believe that a loving Father God gives to groups of His children the knowledge they are ready for.

nonceleb
Salt Lake City, UT

Billions of decent Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, atheists, and agnostics, who are decent and know of the story of Jesus, are denied salvation if they do not accept him as the messiah and redeemer? How about this novel concept - Jesus died for the sins of humankind regardless of belief, and it is up to humankind to repent of their own sins and strive to be virtuous. In other words, a noble no-strings-attached atonement for all, and then each taking responsibility for their own actions and follow-through. Demanding acceptance makes it ignoble, providing saving grace for all without that condition is the ultimate in altruism.

Weber State Graduate
Clearfield, UT

To claim humility as a saving virtue while at the same time evoking omnipotence to a level that punishes with horrible consequences those who fail to supplicate and bend the knee is a paradox beyond reason...in my humble opinion.

Craig Clark
Boulder, CO

nonceleb,

"....How about this novel concept - Jesus died for the sins of humankind regardless of belief, and it is up to humankind to repent of their own sins and strive to be virtuous...."
______________________________

The idea of universal salvation is not new. It’s rejected by the Orthodox Christianity that favors the more Darwinian selective salvation for those who accept Orthodox dogma and doctrine.

Not for me, thanks.

Tyler D
Meridian, ID

@RedWings – “If there were proof there would be no need for faith.”

Then why do religious people spend so much time trying to prove their beliefs?

“I would bet that, even if Christ appeared today, most atheists would find an excuse to not believe.”

Not at all – if Christ comes back and demonstrates his magic powers (viz-a-viz Book of Revelation) for even five minutes, Christianity will immediately become the science of Christianity. And you will be free to gloat.

Many don’t believe it now because they see about as much evidence for Christianity as they do for all the gods of antiquity (i.e., none) and do not find the notion of “number of believers equals evidence” compelling in the slightest.

“I also read the Quran, Dhammapada, and the Bhagavad Gita. I believe that a loving Father God gives to groups of His children the knowledge they are ready for.”

Given the profundity of a book like the Dhammapada, I would agree with you that some people are getting graduate level religion while others are getting religions from primary school.

@Moontan – nice post (3rd one).

The Wraith
Kaysville, UT

I was really confused by this article. In the beginning it seemed clear Dr. Peterson was launching into a defense of the church practice of baptizing Holocaust victims. But he stops short of that and starts talking about the Divine Comedy then uses a false and cruel doctrine (by his own description) as a proof of his supposed true doctrine. That really doesn't make any sense. He basically says, this is completely false but hey it shows that I'm telling the truth! I'm not really sure that was the best analogy he could have made. In the end I'm basically left with another article that tries to tell me this particular dying and rising salvation god is the real deal (and of course as a result all those other dying and rising salvation gods - which there are many - are false). Of course no where in the article does he say why Jesus is the real deal - I suspect that he's hoping most of his readers have no idea that there are other very similar gods who predate Jesus. Otherwise he'd be forced to admit Jesus isn't special at all.

Schnee
Salt Lake City, UT

@Apocalypse please
"No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith"

I'm pretty sure Journal of Discourses isn't considered scripture or doctrine in the LDS church (which is not to say it doesn't contain things that are doctrinal, just that assuming everything in it is doctrinal is incorrect).

Michigander
Westland, MI

When the pure and unadulterated restored gospel of Jesus Christ as taught and preached by The Church of Jesus Christ (WHQ: Monongahela, Pennsylvania) goes forth to every age-accountable soul on the earth, then will be fulfilled these verses from Mosiah, chapter 3 in the BOM:

[20] And moreover, I say unto you, that the time shall come when the knowledge of a Savior shall spread throughout every nation, kindred, tongue, and people.

[21] And behold, when that time cometh, none shall be found blameless before God, except it be little children, only through repentance and faith on the name of the Lord God Omnipotent.

TheProudDuck
Newport Beach, CA

"Billions of decent Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, atheists, and agnostics, who are decent and know of the story of Jesus, are denied salvation if they do not accept him as the messiah and redeemer?"

Jesus called himself "the Way, the Truth, and the Life." I believe that any person who recognizes that those things are sacred -- who dedicates himself to living moral truth, as well as God gives him to see it, and confesses that human life is holy -- is worshipping Jesus, even if it's by one of his alternative Names.

Eagle78
Salt Lake City, UT

I don't know. I think telling Muslims that they are really worshipping Jesus using a alternative name is a good way to start a war heh. I think is they told you that you're not really worshipping Jesus, but Allah in disguise that you might also have some objections!

the greater truth
Bountiful, UT

#Tyler D

"Then why do religious people spend so much time trying to prove their beliefs?"

Two reasons:

1. Salvation of the soul is very important.

2. Satan is the father of all contention, and is about causing discord and contention, especially among the religious people causing them to argue and move further from the truth and lean to own understanding or understanding inspired by satan.

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